Tomato's are a dyin.
May 7, 2011 6:10 PM Subscribe
Help out dying greenhouse tomato's!
We have about 50 rio-grande tomato plants that are maybe two months old. We started them in our indoor greenhouse. We are using full spectrum florescent lights. The plants were started in trays & potting soil, watered regularly to keep the soil wet, and then moved them to peat pots.
Over the past week our smaller plants started to look as if they were dying; falling over; etc. We assumed a few were going to die. Today it seems as though some of the biggest and healthiest are falling over as well.
There doesn't seem to be any clear infestation of any type on the plants. Nothing that I know of has changed in our environment.
All of our other plants seem to be doing well. Thoughts?
Here are a few photos of the sad looking plants.
We have about 50 rio-grande tomato plants that are maybe two months old. We started them in our indoor greenhouse. We are using full spectrum florescent lights. The plants were started in trays & potting soil, watered regularly to keep the soil wet, and then moved them to peat pots.
Over the past week our smaller plants started to look as if they were dying; falling over; etc. We assumed a few were going to die. Today it seems as though some of the biggest and healthiest are falling over as well.
There doesn't seem to be any clear infestation of any type on the plants. Nothing that I know of has changed in our environment.
All of our other plants seem to be doing well. Thoughts?
Here are a few photos of the sad looking plants.
Response by poster: > Are they getting enough light
We run the florescent lights pretty regularly. 10-12 hours a day. They also get natural light as they are next to a window; but not enough to fully satisfy their needs. The lighting pattern has not changed since we started; and specifically not in the last week.
> Perhaps it's too hot?
Its generally is pretty warm in the greenhouse; but not seemingly higher than 80F. It has been warner generally; but we are in Vermont -- so nothing horribly high.
> Or they need more water?
We keep them well watered I think. We water them about once every 4-5 days when the soil feels like it needs it.
> Or the drainage is inadequate and the roots are rotting
What would that look like? The peat pots could be holding the water in. Will it be obvious if I pull some out that their roots are rotting? (first time gardener here).
posted by SirStan at 6:29 PM on May 7, 2011
We run the florescent lights pretty regularly. 10-12 hours a day. They also get natural light as they are next to a window; but not enough to fully satisfy their needs. The lighting pattern has not changed since we started; and specifically not in the last week.
> Perhaps it's too hot?
Its generally is pretty warm in the greenhouse; but not seemingly higher than 80F. It has been warner generally; but we are in Vermont -- so nothing horribly high.
> Or they need more water?
We keep them well watered I think. We water them about once every 4-5 days when the soil feels like it needs it.
> Or the drainage is inadequate and the roots are rotting
What would that look like? The peat pots could be holding the water in. Will it be obvious if I pull some out that their roots are rotting? (first time gardener here).
posted by SirStan at 6:29 PM on May 7, 2011
It may be that they are not getting enough air circulation. The stems of tomato plants need to be stimulated in order to support the weight of flowers and then the fruit. In nature this stimulation is provided largely by the wind. In your greenhouse, they may not be getting enough of this. Two months is a long time to maintain plants without "hardening". Start taking them outside for an two hours a day or if that is not possible set up a fan for 5 or 10 minutes a day.
posted by jeremias at 6:38 PM on May 7, 2011
posted by jeremias at 6:38 PM on May 7, 2011
Are you over-watering them?
Here's a great site I use to diagnose issues with my tomato plants.
posted by TheBones at 6:45 PM on May 7, 2011
Here's a great site I use to diagnose issues with my tomato plants.
posted by TheBones at 6:45 PM on May 7, 2011
Any chance the temperatures could have dropped below 40?
posted by TheBones at 7:18 PM on May 7, 2011
posted by TheBones at 7:18 PM on May 7, 2011
I don't like peat pots at all -- they dry out and don't drain, and when the plant is transplanted into the garden, the roots are restricted by the pot. If the pot's not draining water well, that's probably causing your problem.
You might try carefully cutting off the bottom of the pot, cutting down the sides of the pot in several places, and transplanting the entire thing into larger containers of new potting soil. You'll lose some roots, but the plant will drain as it should. Plant them deeply -- cut off all but the top three or four leaves, and plant them so their entire stem is buried up to those leaves. Make sure the peat pot rim is completely covered with potting soil, or the rim will wick water out of the soil, which isn't good. Good luck!
posted by northernlightgardener at 8:16 PM on May 7, 2011
You might try carefully cutting off the bottom of the pot, cutting down the sides of the pot in several places, and transplanting the entire thing into larger containers of new potting soil. You'll lose some roots, but the plant will drain as it should. Plant them deeply -- cut off all but the top three or four leaves, and plant them so their entire stem is buried up to those leaves. Make sure the peat pot rim is completely covered with potting soil, or the rim will wick water out of the soil, which isn't good. Good luck!
posted by northernlightgardener at 8:16 PM on May 7, 2011
Well, it's really hard to tell what's going on from those photos, but mostly it looks like not enough light. Half of the tomato plants in your photos are in shadow. "Full spectrum" is not actually descriptive of how much light they're getting. How many lumens are those lights putting out? How close are they to the plants?
The other thing that looks possible is low calicium/too much nitrogen, because it looks like some of your leaves might be cupping. Have you fertilized with a high nitrogen fertilizer? If not, what kind of soil did you plant them in? Too much nitrogen will force young tomatoes to grow foliage beyond the capability of their roots to take up calcium. Most store bought "soil" mixes are deficient in the calcium that is naturally found in mineral soils.
Temperature should be fine. Above 85 is problematic. Also 8 weeks is a long time to have plants indoors, as jeremias pointed out.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:28 PM on May 7, 2011
The other thing that looks possible is low calicium/too much nitrogen, because it looks like some of your leaves might be cupping. Have you fertilized with a high nitrogen fertilizer? If not, what kind of soil did you plant them in? Too much nitrogen will force young tomatoes to grow foliage beyond the capability of their roots to take up calcium. Most store bought "soil" mixes are deficient in the calcium that is naturally found in mineral soils.
Temperature should be fine. Above 85 is problematic. Also 8 weeks is a long time to have plants indoors, as jeremias pointed out.
posted by oneirodynia at 9:28 PM on May 7, 2011
northernlightgardener has it. Those tomatoes want some room to stretch their roots out. Get them out of the peat pots in the method described as soon as possible. You will be able to tell if the roots are rotting at that point, but it looks to me like they are root bound and want some water. Planting them deep will allow them to grow some new roots along the stem, and they will bounce back, I bet.
posted by squid in a people suit at 9:54 PM on May 7, 2011
posted by squid in a people suit at 9:54 PM on May 7, 2011
>>Root rot [what would it look like]
Root rot has a distinct smell: like sewage. It's very communicable & hard to control once established. As in, throw them out, disinfect everything with 10% bleach solution & start over. It's caused by bacteria running amock in the soil of an over-watered plant. Hopefully it's not root rot.
posted by Ys at 10:39 PM on May 7, 2011
Root rot has a distinct smell: like sewage. It's very communicable & hard to control once established. As in, throw them out, disinfect everything with 10% bleach solution & start over. It's caused by bacteria running amock in the soil of an over-watered plant. Hopefully it's not root rot.
posted by Ys at 10:39 PM on May 7, 2011
How far away from your plants are the lights? Ideally you want the bulbs between 1 and 2 inches above the top of the plants. If the lights are too high the plants strive to reach them, grow all spindly, and fall over.
posted by Mitheral at 1:07 AM on May 8, 2011
posted by Mitheral at 1:07 AM on May 8, 2011
Thirding northernlightgardener. They look like their roots are cramped and wet.
I'd repot them in a container twice as large, burying the plant stems as much as possible, as suggested.
posted by chocolatepeanutbuttercup at 6:04 AM on May 8, 2011
I'd repot them in a container twice as large, burying the plant stems as much as possible, as suggested.
posted by chocolatepeanutbuttercup at 6:04 AM on May 8, 2011
They don't seem to have the right color for too little light or too little water, both of which usually show some yellowing. I would yank one and examine it's roots for pests or rot etc. This is also what they look like when exposed to cold temperatures, say low thirties or lower.
posted by caddis at 7:11 AM on May 8, 2011
posted by caddis at 7:11 AM on May 8, 2011
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Some things to think about: Are they getting enough light? They look a bit spindly. Other suggestions: Perhaps it's too hot? Or they need more water? Or the drainage is inadequate and the roots are rotting?
posted by answergrape at 6:22 PM on May 7, 2011