Never be friends with your boss?
April 16, 2011 4:24 PM Subscribe
My friend is now my boss. How does our friendship change?
Jane Doe and I met at work in Sept. 2010; both of us were new hires. She came a week after me. Due to same ages and places in life, we gradually became friends; when possible (our work is repetitive, hands on work, somewhat technical) we work together whenever possible (doing the same set of tasks), ate lunch together, chatted, bitched about work together. She's came over to my place, we've double dated, cried to each other about boyfriend woes, hung out one on one, text each other frequently. I was out sick two days this week and she checked in on me every day via text and phone calls. I dunno about BFF, but we're reasonably close.
My team lead is changing teams, and the remainder of the team (Jane, me, two others) all applied for the opening. Jane was probably the least likely of the candidates, since she was a (very long lasting) temp while the rest of us have achieved permanent staff status (I achieved this about 1.5 months ago). Both of us thought we didn't have a chance in hell and either "Denise" or "Charlene" would get it, probably Denise, because of the huge amount of seniority she has.
Well, my manager pulled me aside today and informed me that the race actually came down to between me and Jane, and she just barely edged me out by having slightly more leadership experience. (He did not elucidate about what disqualified Charlene and Denise, although he did roundabout-ly say something about high-stress personalities not suitable for leadership which I'm fairly sure was for Denise).
I don't mind very much, surprisingly; I expected Denise would get the position, so the fact that I didn't...doesn't bother me. I'm surprised that Jane got the position when I technically had the permanent staff status over her (something which management had previously said would matter) and we're so similar otherwise, but if that leadership experience of hers matters, then sure. But I think this decision would upset Denise and Charlene, who are both older and more experienced at the job than Jane and I (Denise has been here nearly two years, Charlene about 9 months, plus another year at a different branch of the same company). And, well, Jane's my friend, I want to support my friend; I suspect this transition will be hard on her (it would be hard on me if I got the job)...but at the same time, she's my boss. You shouldn't get too close to bosses, right? Rumours about favourtism and all that?
How do friendships change once they become senior to you at work? Should I give her advice if she asks? Should I shut up and stay out of her way and let her handle her management personality? Something else? Should we keep hanging out and talking, in or out of work?
Jane Doe and I met at work in Sept. 2010; both of us were new hires. She came a week after me. Due to same ages and places in life, we gradually became friends; when possible (our work is repetitive, hands on work, somewhat technical) we work together whenever possible (doing the same set of tasks), ate lunch together, chatted, bitched about work together. She's came over to my place, we've double dated, cried to each other about boyfriend woes, hung out one on one, text each other frequently. I was out sick two days this week and she checked in on me every day via text and phone calls. I dunno about BFF, but we're reasonably close.
My team lead is changing teams, and the remainder of the team (Jane, me, two others) all applied for the opening. Jane was probably the least likely of the candidates, since she was a (very long lasting) temp while the rest of us have achieved permanent staff status (I achieved this about 1.5 months ago). Both of us thought we didn't have a chance in hell and either "Denise" or "Charlene" would get it, probably Denise, because of the huge amount of seniority she has.
Well, my manager pulled me aside today and informed me that the race actually came down to between me and Jane, and she just barely edged me out by having slightly more leadership experience. (He did not elucidate about what disqualified Charlene and Denise, although he did roundabout-ly say something about high-stress personalities not suitable for leadership which I'm fairly sure was for Denise).
I don't mind very much, surprisingly; I expected Denise would get the position, so the fact that I didn't...doesn't bother me. I'm surprised that Jane got the position when I technically had the permanent staff status over her (something which management had previously said would matter) and we're so similar otherwise, but if that leadership experience of hers matters, then sure. But I think this decision would upset Denise and Charlene, who are both older and more experienced at the job than Jane and I (Denise has been here nearly two years, Charlene about 9 months, plus another year at a different branch of the same company). And, well, Jane's my friend, I want to support my friend; I suspect this transition will be hard on her (it would be hard on me if I got the job)...but at the same time, she's my boss. You shouldn't get too close to bosses, right? Rumours about favourtism and all that?
How do friendships change once they become senior to you at work? Should I give her advice if she asks? Should I shut up and stay out of her way and let her handle her management personality? Something else? Should we keep hanging out and talking, in or out of work?
anonymous posted">> How do friendships change once they become senior to you at work? Should I give her advice if she asks? Should I shut up and stay out of her way and let her handle her management personality? ... Should we keep hanging out and talking, in or out of work?
1) They usually deteriorate. I have had exactly one successful friend/boss merger.
2) If she asks, yes. But cautiously. She is asking as your boss, and you need to treat her that way.
3) Basically, yes.
4) That remains to be seen. You'll just have to see how things go and react accordingly. But you should be aware that becoming a boss changes people whether they like it or not, whether they think they're changing or not. And you should also be aware that any perception of a special relationship with the boss is likely to put a strain on your relationship with your fellow employees. If things go well with Jane, you could ride her success to a higher position, but it's quite possible you'll alienate both her and your fellow employees, and then where will you be? Tread carefully, and good luck.
posted by languagehat at 5:07 PM on April 16, 2011
1) They usually deteriorate. I have had exactly one successful friend/boss merger.
2) If she asks, yes. But cautiously. She is asking as your boss, and you need to treat her that way.
3) Basically, yes.
4) That remains to be seen. You'll just have to see how things go and react accordingly. But you should be aware that becoming a boss changes people whether they like it or not, whether they think they're changing or not. And you should also be aware that any perception of a special relationship with the boss is likely to put a strain on your relationship with your fellow employees. If things go well with Jane, you could ride her success to a higher position, but it's quite possible you'll alienate both her and your fellow employees, and then where will you be? Tread carefully, and good luck.
posted by languagehat at 5:07 PM on April 16, 2011
This is a relatively short-term friendship, and it sounds like you're in the job for the long haul. So, prioritize job stuff first. You shouldn't withdraw from her (if she wants to sit down with you at lunch and talk about boys, go ahead) but don't freak out if she increases the distance.
It might be easier if you can transition to another team, by the way. It's tough being friends with your own boss, but quite easy being friends with a boss who you don't report to. I have friends at work who outrank me by any standard, but I don't work for them, so there's no pressure or weirdness.
(This is an excellent thing to just be open about. "Hey, Jane, I don't want things to be weird, how can we avoid the weirdness" is a totally reasonable conversation to have.)
posted by SMPA at 5:19 PM on April 16, 2011
It might be easier if you can transition to another team, by the way. It's tough being friends with your own boss, but quite easy being friends with a boss who you don't report to. I have friends at work who outrank me by any standard, but I don't work for them, so there's no pressure or weirdness.
(This is an excellent thing to just be open about. "Hey, Jane, I don't want things to be weird, how can we avoid the weirdness" is a totally reasonable conversation to have.)
posted by SMPA at 5:19 PM on April 16, 2011
Anecdata: My career counselor told me that after her friend became her boss, the friendship was over. Why? Because new boss lady went into Professional Mode-- i.e. spouts corporate bullshit all the time-- and frankly, she doesn't seem to have an "off" switch for that. It's like she stopped being a human being because she had to be in managerial mode all the time. I guess it's what she has to be in order to be in charge of the employees or something, but it pretty much made the other career counselors unable to socialize with her.
I don't think you should assume that you can stay friends with Jane after this. Unless the both of you are really good at drawing lines between 8-5 and 5-8, which could be difficult. Maybe you two should have a talk before she becomes the boss about it?
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 PM on April 16, 2011
I don't think you should assume that you can stay friends with Jane after this. Unless the both of you are really good at drawing lines between 8-5 and 5-8, which could be difficult. Maybe you two should have a talk before she becomes the boss about it?
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:56 PM on April 16, 2011
Ask Jane what she is comfortable with, now that she has this new role. That's what a good friend would do.
posted by gjc at 7:02 PM on April 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by gjc at 7:02 PM on April 16, 2011 [1 favorite]
I've had jobs where I became good friends with the boss, and I've had jobs where the boss had already been a good friend for many years.
Of those, I'm still in regular contact and good friends with the second, though I'm sure I could still have a cordial and enjoyable conversation with any of the first.
A good friendship will endure the kinds of stress put on it by any kind of workplace arrangement. Conversely, a friendship that crumbles under those stresses is probably less valuable than you thought.
posted by flabdablet at 8:40 PM on April 16, 2011
Of those, I'm still in regular contact and good friends with the second, though I'm sure I could still have a cordial and enjoyable conversation with any of the first.
A good friendship will endure the kinds of stress put on it by any kind of workplace arrangement. Conversely, a friendship that crumbles under those stresses is probably less valuable than you thought.
posted by flabdablet at 8:40 PM on April 16, 2011
If you knew you would be reporting to a friend when you started working there, that would be one thing. If the two of you were peers and without your knowledge the management reached down and elevated her, then that might be a little tougher, but it's not too personal. But here you were peers and you both knowingly pursued the same promotion, and now you report to her. That's a lot tougher (on you) than either of the other scenarios.
Working for friend can work out fine, and it has for me, but your situation is tougher. It's a narrower path to navigate, but I hope you find a good way through.
posted by NortonDC at 8:49 PM on April 16, 2011
Working for friend can work out fine, and it has for me, but your situation is tougher. It's a narrower path to navigate, but I hope you find a good way through.
posted by NortonDC at 8:49 PM on April 16, 2011
The bottom line is she's your boss now. restless_normad gave some good advice, but truthfully - the friendship is now a professional friendship if you decide to work under her. If you enjoy the friendship on a personal level, then ask to be transfered. It will avoid many problems down the line for both of you, both in terms of gossip and also true job related issues. I guess, my advice on it would be - if you royally screwed up, and she had to either a) severely disaplince you or b)Fire you; would this be worth losing the friendship over.
I've been in this situation before where my friend, who I hung out with his family, grilled, and played poker with him on Friday nights became my boss. We were friends for over 3 years before this, and within 3 months - it had dissolved into a professional friendship only. It remained this way for 2 years, until I took a different position. We both agreed that the personal friendship would have remained personal if I had not worked directly under him. It's up to you, but personally, determine how you feel about this relationship. If you value it on a personal level, request a transfer.
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:50 PM on April 16, 2011
I've been in this situation before where my friend, who I hung out with his family, grilled, and played poker with him on Friday nights became my boss. We were friends for over 3 years before this, and within 3 months - it had dissolved into a professional friendship only. It remained this way for 2 years, until I took a different position. We both agreed that the personal friendship would have remained personal if I had not worked directly under him. It's up to you, but personally, determine how you feel about this relationship. If you value it on a personal level, request a transfer.
posted by lpcxa0 at 8:50 PM on April 16, 2011
I've been going through something similar from the opposite side. After two years of working with a colleague and becoming quite friendly with her, I'm now her boss. So here's my take.
Languagehat is right: "you should be aware that becoming a boss changes people whether they like it or not, whether they think they're changing or not." The new boss has a lot to think about, and it changes the way she goes about her day.
Either follow her lead on talking about boys or just ask if she's still comfortable having that kind of friendship. Perhaps you will talk about personal stuff outside of work but no longer at work. Perhaps that part of your friendship will evaporate. It's hard to generalize.
Be aware that she probably won't be able to bitch about work stuff with you the way she used to. There are things she knows but can't share. She may agree with you on something but not want to be heard agreeing with you. Or she may be not be interested in bitching that doesn't help her solve the root problem. Be careful of what issues you bring to her, and make sure it's something that you would bring to anyone in that position.
posted by bassjump at 9:01 PM on April 16, 2011
Languagehat is right: "you should be aware that becoming a boss changes people whether they like it or not, whether they think they're changing or not." The new boss has a lot to think about, and it changes the way she goes about her day.
Either follow her lead on talking about boys or just ask if she's still comfortable having that kind of friendship. Perhaps you will talk about personal stuff outside of work but no longer at work. Perhaps that part of your friendship will evaporate. It's hard to generalize.
Be aware that she probably won't be able to bitch about work stuff with you the way she used to. There are things she knows but can't share. She may agree with you on something but not want to be heard agreeing with you. Or she may be not be interested in bitching that doesn't help her solve the root problem. Be careful of what issues you bring to her, and make sure it's something that you would bring to anyone in that position.
posted by bassjump at 9:01 PM on April 16, 2011
I manage someone who was a close friend before we worked together, and we continue to be friends. I was also managed by another friend for about a year, and we're still friends.
The difficulties in the current situation have been when work becomes stressful for me or her (we are both pretty overloaded). It's difficult to be taken seriously when, as a friend and outside work, I say that she needs to take some leave, when she knows that this will increase my workload. She has said that there are some concerns about work she can't talk to me about as a friend (and which are not things she needs to raise with me as her managers). Sometimes meeting as friends outside work conversation can be taken over by work. I worry that my own manager may think I'm treating her differently from other staff because he knows we're friends. And sometimes people ask her to ask me something (usually a piece of work they think I'll say no to) rather than going directly, which I don't think they would if they didn't think she had more influence with me because of our friendship.
It really depends on the demands of your job and whether you support each other a lot outside work.
If she asks for advice, I'd give it to her, but you may need to exercise particular tact. I'd let her handle her management personality unless she asks, yes. I'd keep hanging out outside work but you may need to be careful inside work for a bit.
The other thing I'd mention is that once one of you is managing the other you do get to know each others' weaknesses more than you can be comfortable with - the friend who used to manage me now knows more about how I perform under pressure (not always that well) and my tendencies to procrastinate or to snap at people than I might like her to.
In my experience it takes a while (months to years) for problems to emerge - you're likely to work well together to start off with or you wouldn't be friends. And there are lots of advantages to friends working together - hopefully you know you can trust each other, and you know a lot about how each others' minds work.
posted by paduasoy at 4:44 AM on April 17, 2011
The difficulties in the current situation have been when work becomes stressful for me or her (we are both pretty overloaded). It's difficult to be taken seriously when, as a friend and outside work, I say that she needs to take some leave, when she knows that this will increase my workload. She has said that there are some concerns about work she can't talk to me about as a friend (and which are not things she needs to raise with me as her managers). Sometimes meeting as friends outside work conversation can be taken over by work. I worry that my own manager may think I'm treating her differently from other staff because he knows we're friends. And sometimes people ask her to ask me something (usually a piece of work they think I'll say no to) rather than going directly, which I don't think they would if they didn't think she had more influence with me because of our friendship.
It really depends on the demands of your job and whether you support each other a lot outside work.
If she asks for advice, I'd give it to her, but you may need to exercise particular tact. I'd let her handle her management personality unless she asks, yes. I'd keep hanging out outside work but you may need to be careful inside work for a bit.
The other thing I'd mention is that once one of you is managing the other you do get to know each others' weaknesses more than you can be comfortable with - the friend who used to manage me now knows more about how I perform under pressure (not always that well) and my tendencies to procrastinate or to snap at people than I might like her to.
In my experience it takes a while (months to years) for problems to emerge - you're likely to work well together to start off with or you wouldn't be friends. And there are lots of advantages to friends working together - hopefully you know you can trust each other, and you know a lot about how each others' minds work.
posted by paduasoy at 4:44 AM on April 17, 2011
For me, and I've been on both sides of this situation, the key is to move from friends to friendly. I am the boss regardless of the time of day, or the other person is my boss regardless if we're at work or not. There has to be a firm boundary at all times. I am friendly with my team but I do not socialize or hang out any more with them.
posted by tar0tgr1 at 2:15 AM on April 18, 2011
posted by tar0tgr1 at 2:15 AM on April 18, 2011
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Should I give her advice if she asks? Should I shut up and stay out of her way and let her handle her management personality?
Yes. If she asks, explicitly, then tell her what you think. And otherwise do not go there at all, ever.
Other things that have been useful to me:
- Either decide now that you're ok doing what she says, when she says it (as you would for any other manager) or start looking for another job. Honestly, this one can go either way. I have many dear friends I could never, ever work for - it sounds like that may not be too much the case here, but it is hard if you retain some lingering feelings that you should or could have been the one in charge.
- Maintain very clear lines about what is "work" and what is not. So if you go out clubbing, do not talk about work. If you're at work, do not talk about clubbing.
- In extension of that, do not presume on your friendship to ask for things that you wouldn't ask from another manager. It puts her in a doubly shitty position, and will poison your friendship and your work relationship.
- Be prepared for her to step back on the time spent with you, particularly at first. Drawing those boundaries can be something of an emotional challenge and it's often better not to test them before they've had some time to settle in.
Overall, what I would do if I were in your position would be a) congratulate her, in terms that leave no question as to your sincerity, about the promotion and b) ask her how she wants you to support her in that role given your history. I think the things that I suggested above are good guidelines but it definitely helps if you both know the rules of the game, so neither of you decide the other is jealous of/snubbing/avoiding you.
I've had bosses that became friends, friends that became bosses, and people who were, depending on context, my superior, my employee, or my friend (that one gets fun after a few drinks, let me tell you.) It's totally doable, but being able to articulate and maintain boundaries about the different types of appropriate behavior in different situations is key.
(And it probably doesn't need to be said, but in terms of romantic relationships, congratulations! She is now your sister. Do not date her, her crush, her ex, or god help us all, her current SO.)
posted by restless_nomad at 5:04 PM on April 16, 2011 [8 favorites]