The right vehicle insurance for traveling musicians?
February 11, 2011 11:14 AM
Do traveling musicians in the US need to have commercial vehicle liability insurance? If so, what should we expect to pay and where should we get it?
The long of it:
My band is hoping to start touring more frequently and we are considering pooling money and buying a 12 passenger van (we've been using rental vehicles til now, which is crazy expensive). Our preliminary questions on this subject to other bands and to a couple of insurance agents have been somewhat contradictory, so I'd like to gather more information from the hive. Some people are advising that we should get commercial liability insurance, others are saying personal should be fine.
On the business side of things, the band is not legally incorporated in any way, at this point we're a group of people who enjoy playing music and have hopes that it might turn into more someday. So the van would be owned/registered by one band member. Money-wise, the gigs we are playing don't come with any guaranteed income, usually just a cut of door proceeds, so we've gotten varying advice about whether our band would be considered a commercial enterprise. However, some people have warned that, in the event of a serious accident, arguments might be raised around this point if we only have personal insurance.
More details: we are in NYC and the vehicle would likely be registered in Brooklyn. The exact amount of touring is unknown at the moment, but probably on the order of a couple of weeks every two to three months. Touring for us currently involves playing up and down the eastern seaboard with occasional forays further afield as we find it feasible. We do all of the booking ourselves. We will definitely need at least a 12 passenger van to fit all of us plus gear, so smaller/cheaper vehicle options are probably a no go. When not being used to haul around the band, the van will be used for standard personal use around town (which will be the majority of the time).
So, if you are a traveling musician or band just starting out, what did/do you do? Did you get commercial liability or just stick with personal? If you got commercial insurance, is there an insurance company that you would recommend? One that understands musicians and how goddamn broke we are (yeah, right)? If we do need to get commercial insurance, will we have to "incorporate" the band in some way? If we get commercial insurance on a 12 passenger van in NYC, how much do you think we'll have to pay per month?
I know we should talk to an insurance agent about this stuff, and we will, but I wanted to get some friendly advice from folks who may have been in our position or have some knowledge about it before we have to face a hard sell from the insurance companies. Surely bands must have to face these issues all of the time, but I can find very little information online.
Thanks!
The long of it:
My band is hoping to start touring more frequently and we are considering pooling money and buying a 12 passenger van (we've been using rental vehicles til now, which is crazy expensive). Our preliminary questions on this subject to other bands and to a couple of insurance agents have been somewhat contradictory, so I'd like to gather more information from the hive. Some people are advising that we should get commercial liability insurance, others are saying personal should be fine.
On the business side of things, the band is not legally incorporated in any way, at this point we're a group of people who enjoy playing music and have hopes that it might turn into more someday. So the van would be owned/registered by one band member. Money-wise, the gigs we are playing don't come with any guaranteed income, usually just a cut of door proceeds, so we've gotten varying advice about whether our band would be considered a commercial enterprise. However, some people have warned that, in the event of a serious accident, arguments might be raised around this point if we only have personal insurance.
More details: we are in NYC and the vehicle would likely be registered in Brooklyn. The exact amount of touring is unknown at the moment, but probably on the order of a couple of weeks every two to three months. Touring for us currently involves playing up and down the eastern seaboard with occasional forays further afield as we find it feasible. We do all of the booking ourselves. We will definitely need at least a 12 passenger van to fit all of us plus gear, so smaller/cheaper vehicle options are probably a no go. When not being used to haul around the band, the van will be used for standard personal use around town (which will be the majority of the time).
So, if you are a traveling musician or band just starting out, what did/do you do? Did you get commercial liability or just stick with personal? If you got commercial insurance, is there an insurance company that you would recommend? One that understands musicians and how goddamn broke we are (yeah, right)? If we do need to get commercial insurance, will we have to "incorporate" the band in some way? If we get commercial insurance on a 12 passenger van in NYC, how much do you think we'll have to pay per month?
I know we should talk to an insurance agent about this stuff, and we will, but I wanted to get some friendly advice from folks who may have been in our position or have some knowledge about it before we have to face a hard sell from the insurance companies. Surely bands must have to face these issues all of the time, but I can find very little information online.
Thanks!
Go to a reliable insurance broker, who has errors and omissions insurance. Explain the situation honestly, and do what they say. If they give you the wrong advise and you end up not being covered, their E&O policy will cover it.
posted by Flood at 1:52 PM on February 11, 2011
posted by Flood at 1:52 PM on February 11, 2011
What did I do? When I was in a band a few years back, I owned the "band van" and also used it as my personal vehicle. I only carried liability insurance in my name, although I made sure it also covered any other drivers I authorized. I also, at my insurance agent's recommendation, took out higher liability limits than the minimum required by law - in my state, the law only required 5k property damage, 15/30k injury, and it didn't cost all that more to get dramatically higher limits.
IANAL, IANA insurance agent, but my band didn't exist as a commercial entity, and had no assets beyond a few boxes of t-shirts and 7" records, so up until I read your question, the idea of getting liability insurance for a band hadn't even occurred to me.
I would second platinum's point that gear theft is going to be your biggest concern when owning a tour van.
posted by zombiedance at 4:12 PM on February 11, 2011
IANAL, IANA insurance agent, but my band didn't exist as a commercial entity, and had no assets beyond a few boxes of t-shirts and 7" records, so up until I read your question, the idea of getting liability insurance for a band hadn't even occurred to me.
I would second platinum's point that gear theft is going to be your biggest concern when owning a tour van.
posted by zombiedance at 4:12 PM on February 11, 2011
We rent all the time. and yeah it ain't cheap, but you never have to worry about repair, or loss, or parking.
I think over the past 5 tours, we've come out ahead. Mind you, it depends on how often you tour.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:30 PM on February 11, 2011
I think over the past 5 tours, we've come out ahead. Mind you, it depends on how often you tour.
posted by lumpenprole at 4:30 PM on February 11, 2011
Hello. Ms. Vegetable works for a major U.S. insurance company:
I just read my Personal Auto Policy, and I think you would be fine using a Personal policy, but you HAVE to make sure that all the members of your band who would be driving are listed on the policy. It doesn't look like you'd be paying any of them or renting out the van, right? That's when you'd have some trouble under a personal policy.
The other part that matters is the amount of time spent touring versus spent just driving around town - because the vehicle is not primarily used in your band/business, it's not *really* a commercial vehicle.
Re: what Platinum said:
Theft of expensive band equipment is a real possibility. However, property stolen from the van is NOT covered under an auto policy - you need renters/condo/homeowners insurance to cover that. And each of you need it - as in, your renters policy would not cover your friend's instrument.
Also, what Flood said. Pick an INDEPENDENT agent or broker - as in, one without an obvious insurance company name on the front. If that makes no sense, pick a few and I can tell you if they're independent or not from the names.
If you choose/are advised to use Commercial insurance, I don't think you need to incorporate.
Good luck!
posted by a robot made out of meat at 5:09 PM on February 11, 2011
I just read my Personal Auto Policy, and I think you would be fine using a Personal policy, but you HAVE to make sure that all the members of your band who would be driving are listed on the policy. It doesn't look like you'd be paying any of them or renting out the van, right? That's when you'd have some trouble under a personal policy.
The other part that matters is the amount of time spent touring versus spent just driving around town - because the vehicle is not primarily used in your band/business, it's not *really* a commercial vehicle.
Re: what Platinum said:
Theft of expensive band equipment is a real possibility. However, property stolen from the van is NOT covered under an auto policy - you need renters/condo/homeowners insurance to cover that. And each of you need it - as in, your renters policy would not cover your friend's instrument.
Also, what Flood said. Pick an INDEPENDENT agent or broker - as in, one without an obvious insurance company name on the front. If that makes no sense, pick a few and I can tell you if they're independent or not from the names.
If you choose/are advised to use Commercial insurance, I don't think you need to incorporate.
Good luck!
posted by a robot made out of meat at 5:09 PM on February 11, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
This to me says personal vehicle, which is exactly how we handle it in our band. My husband's main vehicle is a big van and we just happen to use it on occasion for the band, not the other way around.
Also, while accidents are always a possibility, your biggest concern is going to be insurance for theft - both for the vehicle and more importantly, your gear. Many touring bands I've talked to have had their van broken into and gear stolen at one point or another. In fact, my guitar was stolen out of my car just last week. My car insurance only covered the damage, not the stolen items, but luckily we had a musical instrument insurance policy that we took out a couple of years ago before going on tour. It's pretty inexpensive to get and is worth every penny.
Best of luck to you and the band!
posted by platinum at 1:05 PM on February 11, 2011