Maybe I was a government experiment
December 7, 2010 6:24 PM Subscribe
Is this tokophobia or just some weirdness specific to me?
I'ma female closing in on the end of my fertile years, and I've never really wanted to have children. In fact, I've been a little sad that I've never wanted to have children, because even though there are some women who chime in to agree on the internet, it seems like a very female thing to really want a baby, at least at some point or another.
I never really have, but my half sister, who grew up in the same family as me without any contact with her biological mother really always wanted kids. I suspect I'm tokophobic to some degree, but I'm not grossed out by pregnant women. I am embarrassed by them, but only when I'm with my partner and one is around (like in the same restaurant or on the sidewalk, or in the hallway of our apartment complex). Never at any other point or when I'm with any male coworkers or female coworkers or male or female friends or anything. I'm not embarrassed by explicit sex scenes or crude jokes or complaining about how heavy my period is or anything else when I'm with him, just pregnancy.
These feelings of complete embarrassment come if we watch a movie or TV show and the movie has a birth scene with the actress breathing weird or if we watch a movie/TV show and the woman comes in and tells her boyfriend or husband she's pregnant and all this joyful stuff happens. If I'm not able to sit through the embarrassment, I tend to have to get up and go do something else for a second or talk about something unrelated.
My partner's not really all that much aware of it. He's always been on the "nah" side of ambivalence when we once discussed having kids (and the waves of embarrassment were intense inside me during the discussion though he's never embarrassed about any of it, and I feel like a jackass when I recall the conversation (even though it was a totally normal conversation).
I did have an abortion early on in our marriage but I knew I didn't ever want to be pregnant and certainly not then (or ever, because the soul of my very being is convinced that I would probably have a baby with terrible birth defects, or that it would grow up to hate me and judge me or grow up to be completely embarrassing), and he didn't want it then. I actually had a lot of embarrassed feelings at that time, too, as though I were a dumb 15 year old who got pregnant instead of a 25 year old married woman with a career.
My partner is a really nice person, has never said or implied anything disparaging about mothers, women (pregnant or unpregnant), or me. He loves me a lot. He always said if I ever wanted one we could have them. He himself never really had a strong desire to be a father but was open about not at all disliking the idea (in a "interesting possibility" kind of way).
Are all these abnormal feelings just part of being tokophobic, even if it just happens when I'm with my partner? I have no problem not being embarrassed about the topic when I talk to friends, and no problem watching those movies if I'm with friends, but I feel very grossed out by it all when I'm with my partner.
I'ma female closing in on the end of my fertile years, and I've never really wanted to have children. In fact, I've been a little sad that I've never wanted to have children, because even though there are some women who chime in to agree on the internet, it seems like a very female thing to really want a baby, at least at some point or another.
I never really have, but my half sister, who grew up in the same family as me without any contact with her biological mother really always wanted kids. I suspect I'm tokophobic to some degree, but I'm not grossed out by pregnant women. I am embarrassed by them, but only when I'm with my partner and one is around (like in the same restaurant or on the sidewalk, or in the hallway of our apartment complex). Never at any other point or when I'm with any male coworkers or female coworkers or male or female friends or anything. I'm not embarrassed by explicit sex scenes or crude jokes or complaining about how heavy my period is or anything else when I'm with him, just pregnancy.
These feelings of complete embarrassment come if we watch a movie or TV show and the movie has a birth scene with the actress breathing weird or if we watch a movie/TV show and the woman comes in and tells her boyfriend or husband she's pregnant and all this joyful stuff happens. If I'm not able to sit through the embarrassment, I tend to have to get up and go do something else for a second or talk about something unrelated.
My partner's not really all that much aware of it. He's always been on the "nah" side of ambivalence when we once discussed having kids (and the waves of embarrassment were intense inside me during the discussion though he's never embarrassed about any of it, and I feel like a jackass when I recall the conversation (even though it was a totally normal conversation).
I did have an abortion early on in our marriage but I knew I didn't ever want to be pregnant and certainly not then (or ever, because the soul of my very being is convinced that I would probably have a baby with terrible birth defects, or that it would grow up to hate me and judge me or grow up to be completely embarrassing), and he didn't want it then. I actually had a lot of embarrassed feelings at that time, too, as though I were a dumb 15 year old who got pregnant instead of a 25 year old married woman with a career.
My partner is a really nice person, has never said or implied anything disparaging about mothers, women (pregnant or unpregnant), or me. He loves me a lot. He always said if I ever wanted one we could have them. He himself never really had a strong desire to be a father but was open about not at all disliking the idea (in a "interesting possibility" kind of way).
Are all these abnormal feelings just part of being tokophobic, even if it just happens when I'm with my partner? I have no problem not being embarrassed about the topic when I talk to friends, and no problem watching those movies if I'm with friends, but I feel very grossed out by it all when I'm with my partner.
There's something missing in your story. You say you feel embarrassed when you see anything related to pregnancy with your partner. But not with other people. You don't explain why you feel embarrassed, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there could be an issue related to the abortion you had. Your partner is the one who knows about it. You are embarrassed only around him because he is the one who knows that you turned down the chance to be a mother, and when you see other women being excited about being pregnant, you feel shame because you feel like you should have been that way, but instead you chose abortion.
That is just a complete guess, but if you're not bothered by the idea of pregnancy around anyone other than your partner, then it doesn't seem to count as tokophobia. You just don't want kids. You think you're fine with that, but it sounds like you're not. You should talk to someone about it so that you can work through your feelings of shame and hopefully come to the conclusion that you made the right choice for you and your lifestyle, and there's no requirement in this world for women to embrace pregnancy and mom-hood. It sounds like you logically know that your partner isn't judging you for your choices, but somewhere deep inside you're having these illogical thoughts that he does.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 7:17 PM on December 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
That is just a complete guess, but if you're not bothered by the idea of pregnancy around anyone other than your partner, then it doesn't seem to count as tokophobia. You just don't want kids. You think you're fine with that, but it sounds like you're not. You should talk to someone about it so that you can work through your feelings of shame and hopefully come to the conclusion that you made the right choice for you and your lifestyle, and there's no requirement in this world for women to embrace pregnancy and mom-hood. It sounds like you logically know that your partner isn't judging you for your choices, but somewhere deep inside you're having these illogical thoughts that he does.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 7:17 PM on December 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Man, why do people pathologize perfectly normal parts of the human condition?
NOT EVERYONE WANTS BABIES.
"I'ma female closing in on the end of my fertile years, and I've never really wanted to have children. In fact, I've been a little sad that I've never wanted to have children, because even though there are some women who chime in to agree on the internet, it seems like a very female thing to really want a baby, at least at some point or another."
Meh. One of my very favoritest aunts, who's great with kids and super-fun, was clear in COLLEGE that she didn't want kids, and never waivered. She's happily into great-aunthood and still doting on nieces and nephews and not worried that she missed a thing. I point out her awesome-aunt status to make the point that she likes children fine -- she just didn't WANT any. There's not a darn thing abnormal about not wanting children, not wanting to be a parent, even if you happen to like children.
I have good friends, of my generation, who have made the same decision. Whether they're partnered or not, they just don't feel kids are for them. Some of them are a little awkward around kids, not having a lot of experience with them, others are vying for awesome auntie status, but it's NOT REMOTELY ABNORMAL.
"I am embarrassed by them, but only when I'm with my partner and one is around"
Sounds like it's just a topic you're afraid to broach with him, like maybe you're afraid of what he'll say. Maybe you're afraid of what you'll say, who knows. Clearly it's a sensitive topic. I don't, however, think this is unusual either; I think often people who are very close (relatives, good friends, romantic partners) have certain "no-talk" elephants in the room that nobody wants to open the floodgates on. I'm sure there are therapists who'd say that's unhealthy, but it's also really common, and I don't know that poking at a sore spot repeatedly does anyone any good. Talk about it with him once if you want to, see what happens. Maybe you'll feel relieved and less embarrassed after. Maybe nothing.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:29 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
NOT EVERYONE WANTS BABIES.
"I'ma female closing in on the end of my fertile years, and I've never really wanted to have children. In fact, I've been a little sad that I've never wanted to have children, because even though there are some women who chime in to agree on the internet, it seems like a very female thing to really want a baby, at least at some point or another."
Meh. One of my very favoritest aunts, who's great with kids and super-fun, was clear in COLLEGE that she didn't want kids, and never waivered. She's happily into great-aunthood and still doting on nieces and nephews and not worried that she missed a thing. I point out her awesome-aunt status to make the point that she likes children fine -- she just didn't WANT any. There's not a darn thing abnormal about not wanting children, not wanting to be a parent, even if you happen to like children.
I have good friends, of my generation, who have made the same decision. Whether they're partnered or not, they just don't feel kids are for them. Some of them are a little awkward around kids, not having a lot of experience with them, others are vying for awesome auntie status, but it's NOT REMOTELY ABNORMAL.
"I am embarrassed by them, but only when I'm with my partner and one is around"
Sounds like it's just a topic you're afraid to broach with him, like maybe you're afraid of what he'll say. Maybe you're afraid of what you'll say, who knows. Clearly it's a sensitive topic. I don't, however, think this is unusual either; I think often people who are very close (relatives, good friends, romantic partners) have certain "no-talk" elephants in the room that nobody wants to open the floodgates on. I'm sure there are therapists who'd say that's unhealthy, but it's also really common, and I don't know that poking at a sore spot repeatedly does anyone any good. Talk about it with him once if you want to, see what happens. Maybe you'll feel relieved and less embarrassed after. Maybe nothing.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:29 AM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yes, I think it sounds more like you're afraid that your partner will be inspired by some movie about pregnancy to say "Hey, honey, I really want to have kids!" than that you have a phobia about pregnancy in general.
It would probably reassure you a lot if you and he had a conversation about this.
Also, not having kids is a great choice. You don't have to be ashamed or think you're weird or anything like that. Remember that "not being the statistical norm" is not the same thing as "abnormal" in its colloquial usage.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:54 AM on December 8, 2010
It would probably reassure you a lot if you and he had a conversation about this.
Also, not having kids is a great choice. You don't have to be ashamed or think you're weird or anything like that. Remember that "not being the statistical norm" is not the same thing as "abnormal" in its colloquial usage.
posted by Sidhedevil at 7:54 AM on December 8, 2010
Is this a phobia? No.
Do I detect a deep sense of shame surrounding your feelings about pregnancy a procreation? Yes. Yes. A million times, yes.
While your feelings aren't abnormal, I think you might find great relief through couples counseling. Getting everything out on the table and expressing your discomfort with your partner in a safe environment can only help to reduce these feelings. Not talking about it will only perpetuate the problem, if not make it worse.
posted by Mrs.Spiffy at 10:27 AM on December 8, 2010
Do I detect a deep sense of shame surrounding your feelings about pregnancy a procreation? Yes. Yes. A million times, yes.
While your feelings aren't abnormal, I think you might find great relief through couples counseling. Getting everything out on the table and expressing your discomfort with your partner in a safe environment can only help to reduce these feelings. Not talking about it will only perpetuate the problem, if not make it worse.
posted by Mrs.Spiffy at 10:27 AM on December 8, 2010
There's a difference between a healthy not wanting something and an assumption that the worst possible fears about it would happen in your case if you did decide to want it. If you have a healthy lack of desire for children, you just don't want them and don't care much about pregnancy one way or the other. If, on the other hand as you describe, you are embarrassed about pregnancy and fear that you'd have a horribly damaged child who would hate you if you got pregnant, that's a psychological problem. That's not making a rational choice about having a child or not— that's making a choice based on avoiding an overblown fear.
Many people find having children to be one of the most meaningful experiences of their lives—others are just meh about the whole idea. You sound terrified, not disinterested. Making a decision based on irrational fear is generally not a good idea. So, it might be good to start some kind of counseling either with your partner or alone in order to make a choice based on what you actually want—not what you are not allowing yourself to consider wanting due to unusual cognitive biases.
posted by Maias at 2:43 PM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Many people find having children to be one of the most meaningful experiences of their lives—others are just meh about the whole idea. You sound terrified, not disinterested. Making a decision based on irrational fear is generally not a good idea. So, it might be good to start some kind of counseling either with your partner or alone in order to make a choice based on what you actually want—not what you are not allowing yourself to consider wanting due to unusual cognitive biases.
posted by Maias at 2:43 PM on December 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
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There's not wanting to have a baby/kids, and that's perfectly fine. It's also healthy to want kids and be terrified of that possibility. (Like me. Why, hello there!)
What I worry about is your assumption that "the soul of my very being is convinced that I would probably have a baby with terrible birth defects, or that it would grow up to hate me and judge me or grow up to be completely embarrassing." Also, the way you're judging pregnant women for the "embarrassing" things they do is pretty unnecessary and insulting for something they more or less can't help. (Let's face it; you came from one of those women, too!)
That is... wow, putting a lot of huge, unrelated fears together in a tidy little box, which is an awfully convenient way to dismiss the issue of kids and put it out of your head. Except it's not out of your head, is it? (See paragraph 1.)
I am not in any way saying, "Oh, you'll want to be a mom someday." However, it does sound like you've got some serious underlying questions about what you could offer a small person... or, perhaps, the rest of the world.
I was absolutely petrified about having kids all through my 20s. Not childfree, mind you; just petrified of pregnancy, parenthood and anything that could possibly go with it. I even got blamed for sexual problems because I mentioned it with my then-husband. Now, however, I'm in a better position in my life and have a wonderful partner -- and most importantly, I've come to terms with what I could give a kid. It will never be perfect, or "enough" -- but I could do it, and I might even be good at it. (And a lot of it comes from my shitty relationship with my own parents. DING!)
The point here is not that your thoughts about having kids might change when you get a bit older. The point is that your thoughts about yourself might change. Meanwhile, maybe you might benefit from talking with a professional about these issues. Because, seriously, the pregnancies and embarrassing pregnant ladies around you aren't going to go away any time soon.
posted by Madamina at 6:54 PM on December 7, 2010 [2 favorites]