"OMG, sis, I do not want to hear you talk about safe words over breakfast."
November 8, 2010 1:24 PM Subscribe
My sister will not stop discussing her non-traditional sex life. It's the only thing she ever talks about, regardless of who's on the other end of the conversation. It's alienating me and others in her life. Should I say something?
My sister and I have always had a very close relationship. We live in the same city, work in somewhat similar fields, and hang out with the same friends. As a kid and young adult she was a withdrawn, insecure wallflower until her first boyfriend introduced her to the world of polyamory when she was 26. She went from being a virgin to a swinging-from-the-chandeliers celebrity in various poly circles. Of course, I'm happy that she's found her place in the sun and don't care if she has one boyfriend or seventeen girlfriends as long as she's happy.
On the other hand, my sis will not shut up about her amazing new sex life. Ever. We used to talk about all sorts of things, but now all she wants to discuss is how difficult it is to juggle her many lovers. She stresses over the minute boundaries and rules of polyamory, and is constantly naming people who want to have sex with her. It wasn't very interesting at first, but now it's downright tedious. While my own (monogamous) love life is rich and happy, I am sort of tight-lipped about oversharing sex stories. I'm fine with friends saying, "I need to get laid," or "I miss my old girlfriend, she was amazing in bed," but I am less comfortable around friends telling me why and how someone is amazing in bed. Fortunately, my sister is too busy chattering about her own sex life to ask questions about mine.
It gets worse when we go out on the town or when the conversation involves more than just me and her. My sister now gives my boyfriend sex tips (not that it's really her business, but he doesn't exactly need tips, thankyouverymuch) over a casual weekend brunch outing. At parties, she'll ask people she's just met if they're into D/s stuff and attempt to recruit them into sex clubs. She will talk for hours about great her lifestyle is and how everyone should have six boyfriends. It often annoys and bores her listeners, and it makes me feel a little embarrassed to be associated with the sex-obsessed sister who is giving men unsolicited tips on cunnilingus.
I feel like a prude for cringing every time she calls because I know it's just another lurid tale that I don't care to hear. Our mutual friends refuse to invite her to gatherings because they're sick of her posturing. I worry that they give her a lot of flak they unconsciously disapprove of her lifestyle, but I do agree that she's got to find a couple other talking points before we all go crazy. Should I say something? Or is it time to accept that my baby sister is a loud-and-proud kinkster who doesn't give a damn about other people's hang-ups?
My sister and I have always had a very close relationship. We live in the same city, work in somewhat similar fields, and hang out with the same friends. As a kid and young adult she was a withdrawn, insecure wallflower until her first boyfriend introduced her to the world of polyamory when she was 26. She went from being a virgin to a swinging-from-the-chandeliers celebrity in various poly circles. Of course, I'm happy that she's found her place in the sun and don't care if she has one boyfriend or seventeen girlfriends as long as she's happy.
On the other hand, my sis will not shut up about her amazing new sex life. Ever. We used to talk about all sorts of things, but now all she wants to discuss is how difficult it is to juggle her many lovers. She stresses over the minute boundaries and rules of polyamory, and is constantly naming people who want to have sex with her. It wasn't very interesting at first, but now it's downright tedious. While my own (monogamous) love life is rich and happy, I am sort of tight-lipped about oversharing sex stories. I'm fine with friends saying, "I need to get laid," or "I miss my old girlfriend, she was amazing in bed," but I am less comfortable around friends telling me why and how someone is amazing in bed. Fortunately, my sister is too busy chattering about her own sex life to ask questions about mine.
It gets worse when we go out on the town or when the conversation involves more than just me and her. My sister now gives my boyfriend sex tips (not that it's really her business, but he doesn't exactly need tips, thankyouverymuch) over a casual weekend brunch outing. At parties, she'll ask people she's just met if they're into D/s stuff and attempt to recruit them into sex clubs. She will talk for hours about great her lifestyle is and how everyone should have six boyfriends. It often annoys and bores her listeners, and it makes me feel a little embarrassed to be associated with the sex-obsessed sister who is giving men unsolicited tips on cunnilingus.
I feel like a prude for cringing every time she calls because I know it's just another lurid tale that I don't care to hear. Our mutual friends refuse to invite her to gatherings because they're sick of her posturing. I worry that they give her a lot of flak they unconsciously disapprove of her lifestyle, but I do agree that she's got to find a couple other talking points before we all go crazy. Should I say something? Or is it time to accept that my baby sister is a loud-and-proud kinkster who doesn't give a damn about other people's hang-ups?
How long has it been since she's had this awakening? If it's been less than a year or two, I would guess she's enjoying the novelty and sticking it to the (straw)man by being so in-your-face and up-front about it.
If it's been more than that, it's only going to stop if you give her the tough love she needs: "Sis, it's over the line. People don't invite you places because of it, and soon, I won't either."
posted by supercres at 1:30 PM on November 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
If it's been more than that, it's only going to stop if you give her the tough love she needs: "Sis, it's over the line. People don't invite you places because of it, and soon, I won't either."
posted by supercres at 1:30 PM on November 8, 2010 [9 favorites]
I'd start with this:
"Hey sis, you know how they say there's nothing more boring than other people talking about their dreams? You've proven them wrong. I never thought sex could be so dull, but you're really making it that way."
And eventually, talk to her about why she feels the need to overshare. Speaking from experience, it usually comes from a place of not feeling particularly secure in the lifestyle you have chosen and needing to get constant praise/feedback that it's okay. Tell her that as long as she's happy, you will love and support her, but that's not the same as hanging out with the total bore she's become.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:34 PM on November 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
"Hey sis, you know how they say there's nothing more boring than other people talking about their dreams? You've proven them wrong. I never thought sex could be so dull, but you're really making it that way."
And eventually, talk to her about why she feels the need to overshare. Speaking from experience, it usually comes from a place of not feeling particularly secure in the lifestyle you have chosen and needing to get constant praise/feedback that it's okay. Tell her that as long as she's happy, you will love and support her, but that's not the same as hanging out with the total bore she's become.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 1:34 PM on November 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
At parties, she'll ask people she's just met if they're into D/s stuff and attempt to recruit them into sex clubs. She will talk for hours about great her lifestyle is and how everyone should have six boyfriends.
Yeah, that's the really horrible part. Not just being out and proud, but actively putting down people who enjoy their more-vanilla lifestyles just fine, and trying to recruit them into hers.
Honestly? It sounds like she doth protest just a bit too much about how happy she is. Maybe that will get her to shut up-- tell her that her over-exuberance is making people think she's actually compensating for inner turmoil
posted by supercres at 1:36 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Yeah, that's the really horrible part. Not just being out and proud, but actively putting down people who enjoy their more-vanilla lifestyles just fine, and trying to recruit them into hers.
Honestly? It sounds like she doth protest just a bit too much about how happy she is. Maybe that will get her to shut up-- tell her that her over-exuberance is making people think she's actually compensating for inner turmoil
posted by supercres at 1:36 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
It sounds like the whole polyamorous aspect you're bringing up is a bit of a red herring. It doesn't matter if your sister was sleeping with one person or one hundred, it would still be irritating if she only discussed her sex life and offered your boyfriend sex tips (um, not okay) and opined endlessly about how her way of dating was the Best Way.
Most people I know who run off at the mouth about their sex lives A) don't realize they're doing it, even when they're called out on it, and B) are still fighting mountains of insecurity that sex, even amazing sex, can't cure. And I'll wager that a former 26 year-old virgin who probably felt unlovable during her high school and college years has a lot of insecurities that the Reverse Cowgirl won't dissipate. So now she's posturing, as her sister and friends have noticed, with sex tips and monologues about sex. Sex sex sex.
If this transformation happened within the last few months, your sister will probably settle down on her own, so don't worry about her being like this when you're both in your fifties. Sex seems glamorous and amazing when everyone else is having it except you, so she might still be readjusting to the novelty of having lots of sex after many years of nothing. Like how when people have a baby and won't shut up about their poopy diapers and bottle feedings.
You can absolutely say something to her, however, when she crosses your boundaries. I get the impression that you don't want to come off as a repressive puritan for chastising your poly sister about oversharing, but again, this isn't about her non-traditional lifestyle. You don't seem skeeved out by the amount of people your sister sleeps with, just the amount of air time she gives her liaisons when talking to you. Often a "Whoa, TMI!" is enough to get people to stop, but you might have to sit your sister down and tell her what you do and do not want to discuss. Remind her that she's not just a conduit for sex, but a person with interesting opinions and insights. And for godsakes, let her know that she's not allowed to give your boyfriend sex tips.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:36 PM on November 8, 2010 [27 favorites]
Most people I know who run off at the mouth about their sex lives A) don't realize they're doing it, even when they're called out on it, and B) are still fighting mountains of insecurity that sex, even amazing sex, can't cure. And I'll wager that a former 26 year-old virgin who probably felt unlovable during her high school and college years has a lot of insecurities that the Reverse Cowgirl won't dissipate. So now she's posturing, as her sister and friends have noticed, with sex tips and monologues about sex. Sex sex sex.
If this transformation happened within the last few months, your sister will probably settle down on her own, so don't worry about her being like this when you're both in your fifties. Sex seems glamorous and amazing when everyone else is having it except you, so she might still be readjusting to the novelty of having lots of sex after many years of nothing. Like how when people have a baby and won't shut up about their poopy diapers and bottle feedings.
You can absolutely say something to her, however, when she crosses your boundaries. I get the impression that you don't want to come off as a repressive puritan for chastising your poly sister about oversharing, but again, this isn't about her non-traditional lifestyle. You don't seem skeeved out by the amount of people your sister sleeps with, just the amount of air time she gives her liaisons when talking to you. Often a "Whoa, TMI!" is enough to get people to stop, but you might have to sit your sister down and tell her what you do and do not want to discuss. Remind her that she's not just a conduit for sex, but a person with interesting opinions and insights. And for godsakes, let her know that she's not allowed to give your boyfriend sex tips.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:36 PM on November 8, 2010 [27 favorites]
I would have a talk with her about it. No matter what the topic, conversation monopolies get old. You could frame it by letting her know not everyone is as sexually enlightened as she is.
posted by Silvertree at 1:37 PM on November 8, 2010
posted by Silvertree at 1:37 PM on November 8, 2010
Yes, you should say something, it's basic manners on her part. It's no different to someone talking constantly about football, or work, or politics.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 1:39 PM on November 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 1:39 PM on November 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
You should talk to her about it, because it's affecting her life and she doesn't know it. You should say (copied in part from what you've said here):
"I'm happy that you've found your place in the sun and I don't care if you have one boyfriend or seventeen girlfriends as long as you're happy. But it makes me feel a little embarrassed when you have these detailed conversations with me and others about your sex life, and give my boyfriend sex tips. We used to talk about all sorts of things, and I really liked that. But I feel like lately most of our conversations are on this one topic.
I'm mentioning this now because I've noticed that some of our mutual friends are uncomfortable as well, and haven't invited you to a few events recently. I'm sure that it's in part because they unconsciously disapprove of your lifestyle, and I don't care about that, but I do think that you should find a couple other talking points."
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 1:43 PM on November 8, 2010
"I'm happy that you've found your place in the sun and I don't care if you have one boyfriend or seventeen girlfriends as long as you're happy. But it makes me feel a little embarrassed when you have these detailed conversations with me and others about your sex life, and give my boyfriend sex tips. We used to talk about all sorts of things, and I really liked that. But I feel like lately most of our conversations are on this one topic.
I'm mentioning this now because I've noticed that some of our mutual friends are uncomfortable as well, and haven't invited you to a few events recently. I'm sure that it's in part because they unconsciously disapprove of your lifestyle, and I don't care about that, but I do think that you should find a couple other talking points."
posted by kingjoeshmoe at 1:43 PM on November 8, 2010
You're not a prude, and yes you should say something.
I can tell you that I've known people like this and I absolutely do not disapprove of their lifestyle - quite the opposite - and that disapproval has nothing to do with why they are completely annoying. This has nothing to do with other people's hang-ups per se, unless you're willing to call respect for boundaries a hang-up, and I think very few sane people would.
Is she a recent convert? Because that would explain the zeal. Wouldn't excuse it, but might explain it. Right now she's filled with the exuberance of discovering exactly where she feels like she fits in the world and it's hard to think of much else. This term comes up a lot in polyamory discussions: NRE. It stands for new relationship energy, and right now your sister has tremendous NRE, except the relationship is with herself.
So sit her down sometime and tell her - look, sis. I'm glad you've found where you belong in the world. I'm really excited for you to be on this journey and I want you to know that I have nothing but love and support both for you and for your lifestyle. Having said that, you need to maybe pipe down about it sometime, because right now you're oversharing with people who've given no indication they want to hear about it. I don't know whether you realize it or not but the fact that you constantly bring up polyamory and kink and graphic sexual details, with the frequency and fervor you are, is mostly accomplishing two things: one, it's displaying a lack of respect for other people's boundaries, and two, whether you want it to or not, it means that you are routinely jacking every conversation to talk about yourself constantly. I'm telling you this because I love you, because you're my sister, and because some people - no, I will not name names - have taken me aside to tell me that they won't invite you to gatherings because you overshare at the drop of a hat and it makes folks really uncomfortable. And you need to realize that it has nothing with whether or not they approve of your lifestyle: a better analog would be if you knew someone who talked constantly about how everyone should be monogamous and have vanilla sex like the awesome monogamous vanilla sex they're having. It's not the content of the message but the volume and aggressive evangelism.
Or something along those lines. But yes, you should say something, because it sounds like she's oblivious to how uncomfortable this can be and it also sounds like she's hanging out with people who'd rather not actually tell her. So it might as well be you, so she has some notion that you're not saying it out of jealousy and spite.
Because if I were in the same social group these days as someone like your sister, I would not have the constraint of being related to her and thus would not be able to resist interrupting her with something like, "Oh, thank goodness! I never know quite how to ask someone how interesting they are, so I'm glad you're volunteering the information. Please, do go on."
Be prepared to deal with her calling other people prudes and saying they just can't handle her alternative lifestyle or lovestyle or whatever kind of business. Impress upon her that, again, it is not her life that is the problem but her refusal to ever stop talking about the most private, sticky and moist details of it.
And good luck.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:47 PM on November 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
I can tell you that I've known people like this and I absolutely do not disapprove of their lifestyle - quite the opposite - and that disapproval has nothing to do with why they are completely annoying. This has nothing to do with other people's hang-ups per se, unless you're willing to call respect for boundaries a hang-up, and I think very few sane people would.
Is she a recent convert? Because that would explain the zeal. Wouldn't excuse it, but might explain it. Right now she's filled with the exuberance of discovering exactly where she feels like she fits in the world and it's hard to think of much else. This term comes up a lot in polyamory discussions: NRE. It stands for new relationship energy, and right now your sister has tremendous NRE, except the relationship is with herself.
So sit her down sometime and tell her - look, sis. I'm glad you've found where you belong in the world. I'm really excited for you to be on this journey and I want you to know that I have nothing but love and support both for you and for your lifestyle. Having said that, you need to maybe pipe down about it sometime, because right now you're oversharing with people who've given no indication they want to hear about it. I don't know whether you realize it or not but the fact that you constantly bring up polyamory and kink and graphic sexual details, with the frequency and fervor you are, is mostly accomplishing two things: one, it's displaying a lack of respect for other people's boundaries, and two, whether you want it to or not, it means that you are routinely jacking every conversation to talk about yourself constantly. I'm telling you this because I love you, because you're my sister, and because some people - no, I will not name names - have taken me aside to tell me that they won't invite you to gatherings because you overshare at the drop of a hat and it makes folks really uncomfortable. And you need to realize that it has nothing with whether or not they approve of your lifestyle: a better analog would be if you knew someone who talked constantly about how everyone should be monogamous and have vanilla sex like the awesome monogamous vanilla sex they're having. It's not the content of the message but the volume and aggressive evangelism.
Or something along those lines. But yes, you should say something, because it sounds like she's oblivious to how uncomfortable this can be and it also sounds like she's hanging out with people who'd rather not actually tell her. So it might as well be you, so she has some notion that you're not saying it out of jealousy and spite.
Because if I were in the same social group these days as someone like your sister, I would not have the constraint of being related to her and thus would not be able to resist interrupting her with something like, "Oh, thank goodness! I never know quite how to ask someone how interesting they are, so I'm glad you're volunteering the information. Please, do go on."
Be prepared to deal with her calling other people prudes and saying they just can't handle her alternative lifestyle or lovestyle or whatever kind of business. Impress upon her that, again, it is not her life that is the problem but her refusal to ever stop talking about the most private, sticky and moist details of it.
And good luck.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:47 PM on November 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
Between not noticing that people are put off by her conversation and being a wallflower for so long ... is it possible that your sister just lacks social skills, or just has weak spots in her social skills in some ways? I have an inkling it is about that, not about this particular topic per se. In other words it could be the same if she developed a fascination for train schedules.
I have found that when this is true for someone, they are often very very receptive if you just clue them in in a matter of fact and casual way. Is it at all possible to tell her, with an absolute minimum of emotion/drama, "Hey sister, I'm happy for you, but this subject makes me a little uncomfortable. Mind if we talk about other stuff?" It may honestly have never occurred to her.
I think you could also say, "Hey, I think sometimes people get uncomfortable when that stuff comes up, even if you know them well but especially if you don't. Some people just consider it really private. You might want to make sure the other person is comfortable with that topic before diving in."
You might also need to explain to her how to tell, in conversation, when someone is comfortable with a topic or bored/annoyed.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:59 PM on November 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have found that when this is true for someone, they are often very very receptive if you just clue them in in a matter of fact and casual way. Is it at all possible to tell her, with an absolute minimum of emotion/drama, "Hey sister, I'm happy for you, but this subject makes me a little uncomfortable. Mind if we talk about other stuff?" It may honestly have never occurred to her.
I think you could also say, "Hey, I think sometimes people get uncomfortable when that stuff comes up, even if you know them well but especially if you don't. Some people just consider it really private. You might want to make sure the other person is comfortable with that topic before diving in."
You might also need to explain to her how to tell, in conversation, when someone is comfortable with a topic or bored/annoyed.
posted by Ashley801 at 1:59 PM on November 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
Well, if it makes you feel better, my sister was like this when she was in law school, I was like this when I was in teacher training school, and my other sister was like this when she was getting her PhD in genetics. I hear med school students are the same.
Unfortunately, for those of us with specialized knowledge we just have to tell everyone, there is no way to shut us up.
Luckily for you, you can always rely on "societal norms". You can say, "Sis, I don't mind sharing with you, but I don't always feel comfortable talking about sex or my sex life in public, or even in private on a regular basis. I love you and respect and support your lifestyle choice, and want to be there for you. But I'm wondering if we could sometimes talk about something else, like knitting or LARPing."
posted by KokuRyu at 2:01 PM on November 8, 2010
Unfortunately, for those of us with specialized knowledge we just have to tell everyone, there is no way to shut us up.
Luckily for you, you can always rely on "societal norms". You can say, "Sis, I don't mind sharing with you, but I don't always feel comfortable talking about sex or my sex life in public, or even in private on a regular basis. I love you and respect and support your lifestyle choice, and want to be there for you. But I'm wondering if we could sometimes talk about something else, like knitting or LARPing."
posted by KokuRyu at 2:01 PM on November 8, 2010
I bet she feels like her exciting new nontraditional sex life has completely changed her perspective, and it's "who she is" now and so much happier for it. She probably suspects that everyone else is sexually uninspired, and so she wants to open their minds, too.
If that's the case, you might want to mention to her, "Hey, Janie Condomseed, a lot of these people already know about polyamory and BDSM and the sex-positive women-owned toy shop down the street. I know it's exciting to you, but you are not the first person to have discovered great sex, and your definition of great sex is not everyone's definition of great sex. Just because they don't talk openly about it doesn't mean they aren't every bit as satisfied as you are."
I also agree with mentioning that any subject can bore people if it's all you talk about. Do you guys have a friend who's always talking about a new diet or upcoming wedding? You could bring that up as an example.
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:05 PM on November 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
If that's the case, you might want to mention to her, "Hey, Janie Condomseed, a lot of these people already know about polyamory and BDSM and the sex-positive women-owned toy shop down the street. I know it's exciting to you, but you are not the first person to have discovered great sex, and your definition of great sex is not everyone's definition of great sex. Just because they don't talk openly about it doesn't mean they aren't every bit as satisfied as you are."
I also agree with mentioning that any subject can bore people if it's all you talk about. Do you guys have a friend who's always talking about a new diet or upcoming wedding? You could bring that up as an example.
posted by Metroid Baby at 2:05 PM on November 8, 2010 [6 favorites]
Tell her what you told us.
She could hardly criticize you for being too blunt.
posted by John Cohen at 2:17 PM on November 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
She could hardly criticize you for being too blunt.
posted by John Cohen at 2:17 PM on November 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Sis, remember how we used to talk about a lot of things, not just sex? I really miss that. I'm happy for your happiness, but it seems like that's all you talk about these days and I know there's more to you than that!"
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 2:23 PM on November 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 2:23 PM on November 8, 2010 [5 favorites]
"You have done the impossible and made sex boring. If you really want people to join your lifestyle, you should stop talking about it incessantly so that it retains some of its mystery and allure."
posted by anildash at 2:41 PM on November 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by anildash at 2:41 PM on November 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
I went through a phase somewhat like that (not as extreme) and one night, out eating Chinese with a friend, she got in her fortune cookie, "Your romantic life is interesting only to you." She handed it to me, and said, "I think this one's yours." This pretty much cured me.
I am trying to figure out how you could engineer something like this.
posted by Danf at 2:43 PM on November 8, 2010 [10 favorites]
I am trying to figure out how you could engineer something like this.
posted by Danf at 2:43 PM on November 8, 2010 [10 favorites]
"You know how [name of someone who talks about Jesus more than necessary] talks about being born again all the time and you're just not all that interested in finding religion? And you try to change the subject but they keep witnessing? And it wouldn't be all that bad, but they do it ALL the time and you feel like you can't introduce them to friends because they just go on and on?"
"I'm really happy that you've found something that makes you happy, but it is the only thing you talk about. I'm honestly glad to hear about your boyfriends and girlfriends and how welcomed you've been into this community, and all that, but I'm one of those people who prefers to keep my sex life private and I'm feeling like I'm being hit by a TMI fire hose all the time."
Good luck.
posted by sciencegeek at 2:44 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
"I'm really happy that you've found something that makes you happy, but it is the only thing you talk about. I'm honestly glad to hear about your boyfriends and girlfriends and how welcomed you've been into this community, and all that, but I'm one of those people who prefers to keep my sex life private and I'm feeling like I'm being hit by a TMI fire hose all the time."
Good luck.
posted by sciencegeek at 2:44 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
When I first started exploring alternative sexualities, I was definitely a "crusader" to the point of where I used to do safe sex talks at anime conventions (18+ panels, and we always asked for I.D.).
I was also very excited to talk about it a lot, to the point of tedium. As I got older, I realized that the only one who was that impressed about my sex life was me—and a very select audience whom I do still love and adore—so it's to those people that I speak about sex.
Be gentle with her, but do tell her that it's getting tiring.
posted by TrishaLynn at 2:45 PM on November 8, 2010
I was also very excited to talk about it a lot, to the point of tedium. As I got older, I realized that the only one who was that impressed about my sex life was me—and a very select audience whom I do still love and adore—so it's to those people that I speak about sex.
Be gentle with her, but do tell her that it's getting tiring.
posted by TrishaLynn at 2:45 PM on November 8, 2010
My sister now gives my boyfriend sex tips (not that it's really her business, but he doesn't exactly need tips, thankyouverymuch) over a casual weekend brunch outing. At parties, she'll ask people she's just met if they're into D/s stuff and attempt to recruit them into sex clubs.
This screams socially awkward to a disturbing degree. You should definitely sit her down and explain that not everyone is or wants to be open about their sex life and that's ok. Tell her that she's pushing people away and needs to cut it out order to stop pushing friends away.
posted by nomadicink at 3:14 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
This screams socially awkward to a disturbing degree. You should definitely sit her down and explain that not everyone is or wants to be open about their sex life and that's ok. Tell her that she's pushing people away and needs to cut it out order to stop pushing friends away.
posted by nomadicink at 3:14 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
My sister now gives my boyfriend sex tips (not that it's really her business, but he doesn't exactly need tips, thankyouverymuch) over a casual weekend brunch outing.
Even as an overenthusiastic newbie to polyamory, she should know better than to disregard and disrespect other people's boundaries in their own relationships.
posted by desuetude at 4:12 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Even as an overenthusiastic newbie to polyamory, she should know better than to disregard and disrespect other people's boundaries in their own relationships.
posted by desuetude at 4:12 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think it is just a matter of good manners. Only our own sex lives are of great and everlasting interest to us. What is truly boring is other people's sex lives, no matter what they practice or with whom. It used to be a duty in polite society not to be boring in conversation and that is why one didn't talk about sex, politics, or religion, whatever one's views or practices. The truth is, nobody really cares that much what other people do and it's offensive to yammer on about it because it's inflicting a boring topic onto one's listeners.
posted by Anitanola at 4:19 PM on November 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Anitanola at 4:19 PM on November 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
As desuetude points out, she is showing disrespect to your relationship and your boundaries. When she is next talking about all the rules and etiquette of polyamory as she sees it, ask her if it's okay to involve people in a sexual relationship without their consent, or to force people to do more than they are comfortable with. When she says no, point out that that is what she is in fact doing, to you, your boyfriend and your friends.
or the more passive aggressive route - give her a T-shirt with this genius quote from Artw on it.
posted by runincircles at 4:58 PM on November 8, 2010
or the more passive aggressive route - give her a T-shirt with this genius quote from Artw on it.
posted by runincircles at 4:58 PM on November 8, 2010
Most people I know who run off at the mouth about their sex lives A) don't realize they're doing it, even when they're called out on it, and B) are still fighting mountains of insecurity that sex, even amazing sex, can't cure. And I'll wager that a former 26 year-old virgin who probably felt unlovable during her high school and college years has a lot of insecurities that the Reverse Cowgirl won't dissipate. So now she's posturing, as her sister and friends have noticed, with sex tips and monologues about sex. Sex sex sex.
Zoomorphic nailed nailed nailed it. The girl is obsessing on a subject, because the topic won't leave her inner dialog alone.
"Tough love" talks might close her off to you. Slower clues - "Didn't you notice how uncomfortable Jack was when you started lecturing him on cunnilinguis tips?" - as they come up might be more effective at getting through her defenses (because, after all, she's defending her inner self with this x-rated distractive dialog).
Good luck. She needs a friend. And more self-esteem. You can provide only one of those, alas.
posted by IAmBroom at 5:09 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Zoomorphic nailed nailed nailed it. The girl is obsessing on a subject, because the topic won't leave her inner dialog alone.
"Tough love" talks might close her off to you. Slower clues - "Didn't you notice how uncomfortable Jack was when you started lecturing him on cunnilinguis tips?" - as they come up might be more effective at getting through her defenses (because, after all, she's defending her inner self with this x-rated distractive dialog).
Good luck. She needs a friend. And more self-esteem. You can provide only one of those, alas.
posted by IAmBroom at 5:09 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd do it within the conceptual frameworks of Negotiating Boundaries and Consent, very important concepts in that scene (and everywhere). Negotiate the boundaries of what you want your conversations to be. Maybe you need a conversational safe word to stop the conversation when it becomes too much for you. Suggest she figure out how to make sure she's not exposing others to sexual material without their consent and that even those who opt in have clear ways to stop the conversational action if it becomes too intense for them. Because ultimately, it's not that she talks about it "too much" or "too graphically," but that she may be talking about it "more than you want to hear." How can these sexual conversations respect her conversational partners' desires and comfort zones, just as her sexual activity respects her sexual partners' desires and comfort zones?
posted by salvia at 5:51 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by salvia at 5:51 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
FWIW, in my experience people with non-traditional sexual practices -- and polyamorists in particular -- just can't stop talking about it. And yeah, listening to it is like eating paste: a little off-putting and mostly very boring.
You have to thread the needle that they tend to assume that if you're not fascinated by all their drama (and oh boy is polyamory full of drama, just like highschool!), it's because you disapprove of their choices or are a prude. I'd just face that one down from the outset:
You have to thread the needle that they tend to assume that if you're not fascinated by all their drama (and oh boy is polyamory full of drama, just like highschool!), it's because you disapprove of their choices or are a prude. I'd just face that one down from the outset:
"I think it's great that you are into hot candle-wax and pliers with bus-full of your closest friends, but as exciting as it must be for you, it's really tedious at second-hand. Not gross, not wrong, just too much inside baseball. Like someone who only can talk about the politics of who is backstabing who inside the DCCC now that Van Hollen's out, or about the pros and cons of various Iron Man Triathlon training regimens, or the minutia of painting D&D miniatures. Like a hipster rhapsodizing about bands you've never heard of and don't give a damn about. To everyone else, it's not sex-affirming and thrilling, it's just repetitive and look-at-me! and boring."posted by orthogonality at 7:52 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'd frame a response in terms a newly-out kinkster would understand: "When you start talking about kinky sex with vanilla people, you're not allowing them to consent to a conversation they may find deeply uncomfortable."
(But try not to judge her too harshly. It's true that this particular behavior is fucking annoying, but this is a thing people do frequently enough that it was even parodied in the Onion.)
posted by the_bone at 9:09 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
(But try not to judge her too harshly. It's true that this particular behavior is fucking annoying, but this is a thing people do frequently enough that it was even parodied in the Onion.)
posted by the_bone at 9:09 PM on November 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think the fact that it's about sex is also a little bit of a red herring. I mean, I'd get so bored of someone just talking about say, knitting, ALL THE TIME. And I like knitting!
So maybe it doesn't have to become a heart felt talk, and just a casual, "Hey can we talk about something else now? What else is new in your life? Have you read any books (not related to sex) recently? Have you seen that new Tom Cruise movie? What's your opinion about mom's new hair do?"
I know she's your sister but I think you should first decide if your relationship is close enough to tell her that her behaviour is impacting the rest of her social circle. The first step may be to redirect your own communications with her and see if she takes the hint to apply to the rest of her relationships.
But ditto zoomorphic re: sex advice to your boyfriend. Nip that one in the bud.
posted by like_neon at 12:11 AM on November 9, 2010
So maybe it doesn't have to become a heart felt talk, and just a casual, "Hey can we talk about something else now? What else is new in your life? Have you read any books (not related to sex) recently? Have you seen that new Tom Cruise movie? What's your opinion about mom's new hair do?"
I know she's your sister but I think you should first decide if your relationship is close enough to tell her that her behaviour is impacting the rest of her social circle. The first step may be to redirect your own communications with her and see if she takes the hint to apply to the rest of her relationships.
But ditto zoomorphic re: sex advice to your boyfriend. Nip that one in the bud.
posted by like_neon at 12:11 AM on November 9, 2010
It often annoys and bores her listeners
If you're sure it's not just you, be blunt: "Will you please stop talking about fucking all the time? We used to talk about other things. Find a new subject. Find an old subject. It doesn't matter. Just find a different subject for a change."
(And watch out for your boyfriend becoming one of her boyfriends.)
posted by pracowity at 3:42 AM on November 9, 2010
If you're sure it's not just you, be blunt: "Will you please stop talking about fucking all the time? We used to talk about other things. Find a new subject. Find an old subject. It doesn't matter. Just find a different subject for a change."
(And watch out for your boyfriend becoming one of her boyfriends.)
posted by pracowity at 3:42 AM on November 9, 2010
Or is it time to accept that my baby sister is a loud-and-proud kinkster who doesn't give a damn about other people's hang-ups?
She can be a loud-and-proud kinkster who doesn't give a damn about other people's hang-ups and not be a rude, boorish drama queen. Really.
Don't fall into that trap of believing that if you don't want to hear about how far she can squirt these days, that this is a "hang-up" of yours and that you're de facto a sexually repressed prude.
She sounds really insecure at heart. What's going to happen to her newfound identity as out-and-proud poly kinkster when she gets savaged by the gossips? Most subcultures and enthusiast-groups of any sort have an undercurrent of high-school-cliquishness. It can certainly be ignored, but those who are insecure tend to get sucked into it.
I know a fair amount of kinky people. The ones who find long-term success and happiness are the ones who practice some discretion and are considerate about their relationships. Who does she admire in her circle? Maybe she could find a mentor.
posted by desuetude at 6:49 AM on November 9, 2010
She can be a loud-and-proud kinkster who doesn't give a damn about other people's hang-ups and not be a rude, boorish drama queen. Really.
Don't fall into that trap of believing that if you don't want to hear about how far she can squirt these days, that this is a "hang-up" of yours and that you're de facto a sexually repressed prude.
She sounds really insecure at heart. What's going to happen to her newfound identity as out-and-proud poly kinkster when she gets savaged by the gossips? Most subcultures and enthusiast-groups of any sort have an undercurrent of high-school-cliquishness. It can certainly be ignored, but those who are insecure tend to get sucked into it.
I know a fair amount of kinky people. The ones who find long-term success and happiness are the ones who practice some discretion and are considerate about their relationships. Who does she admire in her circle? Maybe she could find a mentor.
posted by desuetude at 6:49 AM on November 9, 2010
i really don't like the assumption that this means your sister has self-esteem problems. she's excited about something new! when my friends have babies/weddings and gush about it for months on end, i am bored to tears. i don't care about babies/weddings, and cannot think of anything more boring to have to listen about. but when people are having babies/weddings, they simply can't help themselves, and i try to be understanding, and to listen, even when i don't feel like it.
i don't feel the need to intervene under the assumption that they're gushing because they have bad self-esteem, or that the baby/wedding is just covering up for thier insecurities. they're excited, and it'll probably calm down in a while. this might be another way of thinking about things? good luck!
posted by crawfo at 8:27 AM on November 9, 2010
i don't feel the need to intervene under the assumption that they're gushing because they have bad self-esteem, or that the baby/wedding is just covering up for thier insecurities. they're excited, and it'll probably calm down in a while. this might be another way of thinking about things? good luck!
posted by crawfo at 8:27 AM on November 9, 2010
It's your sister; if you can't tell her she's being an annoying braggard, blowhard (no pun intended), insinuating creep, who can you tell?
posted by bunny hugger at 9:02 AM on November 9, 2010
posted by bunny hugger at 9:02 AM on November 9, 2010
And yeah, if you really don't want her to give your boyfriend sex tips, tell her. Or he can tell her. Social norms vary, and obviously she needs to have them clarified where you're concerned.
Poly sis shouldn't need her sister to specifically tell her that giving her sister boyfriend oral sex tips over brunch is inappropriate. They grew up together, they're close as adults, this isn't a particularly tricky social norm to navigate.
I have friends (including couples ) where cheerfully exchanging oral sex tips at the brunch table is, in fact, a social norm. I'd still knock it off if someone at the table was uncomfortable with it.
posted by desuetude at 9:42 AM on November 9, 2010
Poly sis shouldn't need her sister to specifically tell her that giving her sister boyfriend oral sex tips over brunch is inappropriate. They grew up together, they're close as adults, this isn't a particularly tricky social norm to navigate.
I have friends (including couples ) where cheerfully exchanging oral sex tips at the brunch table is, in fact, a social norm. I'd still knock it off if someone at the table was uncomfortable with it.
posted by desuetude at 9:42 AM on November 9, 2010
I can relate a lot to your sister and felt like I didn't fit in anywhere growing up. In my early twenties in an attempt to figure out who I was, I experimented in some alternative lifestyles and was in your face to my friends about it. At that time I was really insecure and I think I was doing it in a way for attention but also because I was still at a late age rebelling and wanted to be very rebellious if that makes any sense. I don't think I would have responded well to someone asking me to change because they were annoyed. I do think I would have responded well to someone telling me they missed me, or missed speaking about everyday topics. I say speak from the heart and just tell her you miss her and love her.
posted by heatherly at 12:35 PM on November 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by heatherly at 12:35 PM on November 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
Polyamory and D/s groups can have completely different standards of behavior from "normal"/"vanilla" groups of people. For someone who is already socially a bit behind, switching between the two norms of behavior can be difficult to manage adeptly.
This is a good point - your sister might not be transitioning smoothly between her social circles. If she feels really comfortable with her new kinky friends who talk about sex all the time, she might just assume everyone does this without blinking. Or maybe she assumed all the people having sex when she was still a virgin would spend brunch swapping oral sex tips when she was in the bathroom, so now that she's boning lots of people she can get in on that action! If I'm reading your relationship with her correctly, your sister might even like her identity as a sexually liberated, unapologetic kinkster partly because it pulls her out of the shadow of an older sister who's always been experienced in relationships, more socially graceful and more mature. Not that the poly lifestyle is JUST about you in any way, but perhaps it's a nice bonus.
And yeah, I agree she sounds a little immature and seems to not yet be able to juggle her separate adult selves yet; so, the self that is a kinky sexually liberated lady is not exactly melding into the self that is able to mingle with mixed company at parties or have a PG conversation with you about the latest book that you read. Don't feel guilty that you're cringing over this new balls-out personality. It's important to you that she behaves appropriately in public not because you actually care about what a salad fork is (unless you do?), but because it sucks having to do damage control on her behalf while remaining loyal to her. You're stuck defending your sister from judgmental people while she's busy offering your boyfriend sex tips (I'm sorry I'm so preoccupied with this, but that one folly floors me as amazingly gauche and screams SOCIALLY TONE-DEAF AND DEEPLY INSECURE unless for some reason your boyfriend asked her for sex tips, but if that's case then you have more problems than your sister, sweetheart).
In this situation I often resort to a combination of Miss Manners ("you are not behaving appropriately"/"bitching about your ex-girlfriend when she is present at my party is not okay"/"your habit of double-fisting Four Lokos coincides with neighbors calling the cops for noise violations") and classic big sister speak ("and this worries me, because I know you can do better than this.")
Your sister can do better than this, but she's not being a bad person for flailing right now. I think on some level she really wants to impress you and include you in her fun new lifestyle change, so don't go overboard criticizing her for acting immature and insecure.
posted by zoomorphic at 12:45 PM on November 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is a good point - your sister might not be transitioning smoothly between her social circles. If she feels really comfortable with her new kinky friends who talk about sex all the time, she might just assume everyone does this without blinking. Or maybe she assumed all the people having sex when she was still a virgin would spend brunch swapping oral sex tips when she was in the bathroom, so now that she's boning lots of people she can get in on that action! If I'm reading your relationship with her correctly, your sister might even like her identity as a sexually liberated, unapologetic kinkster partly because it pulls her out of the shadow of an older sister who's always been experienced in relationships, more socially graceful and more mature. Not that the poly lifestyle is JUST about you in any way, but perhaps it's a nice bonus.
And yeah, I agree she sounds a little immature and seems to not yet be able to juggle her separate adult selves yet; so, the self that is a kinky sexually liberated lady is not exactly melding into the self that is able to mingle with mixed company at parties or have a PG conversation with you about the latest book that you read. Don't feel guilty that you're cringing over this new balls-out personality. It's important to you that she behaves appropriately in public not because you actually care about what a salad fork is (unless you do?), but because it sucks having to do damage control on her behalf while remaining loyal to her. You're stuck defending your sister from judgmental people while she's busy offering your boyfriend sex tips (I'm sorry I'm so preoccupied with this, but that one folly floors me as amazingly gauche and screams SOCIALLY TONE-DEAF AND DEEPLY INSECURE unless for some reason your boyfriend asked her for sex tips, but if that's case then you have more problems than your sister, sweetheart).
In this situation I often resort to a combination of Miss Manners ("you are not behaving appropriately"/"bitching about your ex-girlfriend when she is present at my party is not okay"/"your habit of double-fisting Four Lokos coincides with neighbors calling the cops for noise violations") and classic big sister speak ("and this worries me, because I know you can do better than this.")
Your sister can do better than this, but she's not being a bad person for flailing right now. I think on some level she really wants to impress you and include you in her fun new lifestyle change, so don't go overboard criticizing her for acting immature and insecure.
posted by zoomorphic at 12:45 PM on November 9, 2010 [1 favorite]
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posted by amethysts at 1:30 PM on November 8, 2010 [3 favorites]