Wanted: Means to Make Restitution
October 17, 2010 4:01 PM Subscribe
Help me pay off debts I incurred in the US 10 years ago. I've been living abroad ever since.
Apologies for the length of this.
I left the US in 1999, leaving behind a mess of unpaid bills, BMG CDs at regular price unbought, student loans, parking tickets, auto insurance premiums, bank accounts overdrawn by small amounts, etc. To be perfectly honest, I don't even know what all the loose ends are that I left untied. I never intended to defraud or cheat anyone out of money I owed them, I was just too much of a mess, in terms of procrastination and disorganization, to take care of things that I needed to take care of. So, for example, there were bills I didn't pay, but I also didn't file my taxes, even though I knew I was owed a substantial tax refund.
In the ten years since, I have been a fine upstanding citizen, but I've scared myself enough that I have never kept a credit card, because I'm not sure that I'm organized enough not to create a similar chaotic situation for myself again.
I feel terribly guilty about these things, and would like to figure out how to pay off what I owe, with a minimum of negative conseuences, while continuing, for the time being, to reside in another country, but visiting the US occasionally.
To that end, I seek your advice.
Some of the questions that occur to me are:
1) How do I find out what I owe, and to whom? I don't have any means to make an online payment myself, and when I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request. Is a credit report the only or best way to get this information?
2) Will seeking this information send a horde of collection agencies after my family members (parents, siblings) in the US, particularly since I do use their address for things like reporting to the US embassy, etc.?
3) Once I find out what I owe to whom, how can I start paying them back without calling down the aforementioned horde of collection agencies on myself when I visit the US and my family who lives there?
4) Are there other potential negative consequences that I should consider?
5) My spouse does not know about this mess, and I would prefer to keep it that way, at least until I've figured out how to proceed. Is that going to be impractical? Not asking for relationship advice here, please.
Any and all relevant advice would be appreciated. If there are questions I'm not asking that I should be, please point them out.
Other potentially relevant information:
1) The largest sum of money would be the student loan, which, with penalties and such, is about $20,000. I know this because I did, in fact, try to start a repayment plan on this, but it fell apart in the face of logistical problems with inter-country wire transfers. It is incredibly difficult to do international banking with the US.
2) Other debts, the principal would not be more than $150-200.
3) Some of the debts were already in collection before I left the US.
4) I am a dual citizen of the US and my country of residence.
I hate that I ever allowed myself to be so delinquent. In the years ensuing I have made sure that nothing similar happened again in my financial life. Please help me make amends.
Email for followup and questions is helpmepaymydebtsmefi@gmail.com
Apologies for the length of this.
I left the US in 1999, leaving behind a mess of unpaid bills, BMG CDs at regular price unbought, student loans, parking tickets, auto insurance premiums, bank accounts overdrawn by small amounts, etc. To be perfectly honest, I don't even know what all the loose ends are that I left untied. I never intended to defraud or cheat anyone out of money I owed them, I was just too much of a mess, in terms of procrastination and disorganization, to take care of things that I needed to take care of. So, for example, there were bills I didn't pay, but I also didn't file my taxes, even though I knew I was owed a substantial tax refund.
In the ten years since, I have been a fine upstanding citizen, but I've scared myself enough that I have never kept a credit card, because I'm not sure that I'm organized enough not to create a similar chaotic situation for myself again.
I feel terribly guilty about these things, and would like to figure out how to pay off what I owe, with a minimum of negative conseuences, while continuing, for the time being, to reside in another country, but visiting the US occasionally.
To that end, I seek your advice.
Some of the questions that occur to me are:
1) How do I find out what I owe, and to whom? I don't have any means to make an online payment myself, and when I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request. Is a credit report the only or best way to get this information?
2) Will seeking this information send a horde of collection agencies after my family members (parents, siblings) in the US, particularly since I do use their address for things like reporting to the US embassy, etc.?
3) Once I find out what I owe to whom, how can I start paying them back without calling down the aforementioned horde of collection agencies on myself when I visit the US and my family who lives there?
4) Are there other potential negative consequences that I should consider?
5) My spouse does not know about this mess, and I would prefer to keep it that way, at least until I've figured out how to proceed. Is that going to be impractical? Not asking for relationship advice here, please.
Any and all relevant advice would be appreciated. If there are questions I'm not asking that I should be, please point them out.
Other potentially relevant information:
1) The largest sum of money would be the student loan, which, with penalties and such, is about $20,000. I know this because I did, in fact, try to start a repayment plan on this, but it fell apart in the face of logistical problems with inter-country wire transfers. It is incredibly difficult to do international banking with the US.
2) Other debts, the principal would not be more than $150-200.
3) Some of the debts were already in collection before I left the US.
4) I am a dual citizen of the US and my country of residence.
I hate that I ever allowed myself to be so delinquent. In the years ensuing I have made sure that nothing similar happened again in my financial life. Please help me make amends.
Email for followup and questions is helpmepaymydebtsmefi@gmail.com
Am I missing something here? Why don't you just get your credit report and find out what's on it.
posted by ShootTheMoon at 4:35 PM on October 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by ShootTheMoon at 4:35 PM on October 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
Don't tell your creditors you've been out of the country. That probably would have tolled the applicable statute of limitations, thus leaving you on the hook for the money. Unless they sued you prior to the expiration of the statute of limitations, you don't legally owe any of these former creditors any money, except for the student loan lender. If they did, and got a default judgment against you, that should be on your report.
Most of the stuff should be off your report by now, but if you can get a copy of it (by snail mail if necessary), some of the old accounts may still show even though they should have already aged off. Creditors can get what's called a "full factual" report that includes everything that's ever been on your report, even beyond the 7/10 year reporting cutoff. I don't know if it's something you can request from them or not, however.
In any event, don't promise to pay anybody (except for the student loan lender) anything. The last thing you want is to go from your almost completely clean slate back to a bunch of reported negative accounts. When you do figure out who you owe, pay the original owner of the debt, not some collection agency sleaze and get their agreement in writing that the account will never be reported. Make all requests in writing and make sure to state in your initial letter that they may only contact you regarding any alleged debt by mail. Do that, and if/when they call your parents looking for you, you can sue them for statutory damages if you happen to be back in the US and feel like filing suit in small claims court.
Ideally, if you have the money to pay off the SL lender in one whack, you could negotiate for them to delete their negative entry and you'd be back to a completely clean slate. Still not a great place to be if/when you come back to the US looking for credit, but much better than a bunch of charged-off accounts.
One paragraph version: Other than the student loan debt, you don't actually have to pay anybody anything. If you do decide to pay the others because it will make you feel better or whatever, don't promise to pay until you have all the money you need to pay that particular creditor and have negotiated an agreement in writing that they will not put anything on your credit report and/or delete any information regarding the account from your report.
posted by wierdo at 4:56 PM on October 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Most of the stuff should be off your report by now, but if you can get a copy of it (by snail mail if necessary), some of the old accounts may still show even though they should have already aged off. Creditors can get what's called a "full factual" report that includes everything that's ever been on your report, even beyond the 7/10 year reporting cutoff. I don't know if it's something you can request from them or not, however.
In any event, don't promise to pay anybody (except for the student loan lender) anything. The last thing you want is to go from your almost completely clean slate back to a bunch of reported negative accounts. When you do figure out who you owe, pay the original owner of the debt, not some collection agency sleaze and get their agreement in writing that the account will never be reported. Make all requests in writing and make sure to state in your initial letter that they may only contact you regarding any alleged debt by mail. Do that, and if/when they call your parents looking for you, you can sue them for statutory damages if you happen to be back in the US and feel like filing suit in small claims court.
Ideally, if you have the money to pay off the SL lender in one whack, you could negotiate for them to delete their negative entry and you'd be back to a completely clean slate. Still not a great place to be if/when you come back to the US looking for credit, but much better than a bunch of charged-off accounts.
One paragraph version: Other than the student loan debt, you don't actually have to pay anybody anything. If you do decide to pay the others because it will make you feel better or whatever, don't promise to pay until you have all the money you need to pay that particular creditor and have negotiated an agreement in writing that they will not put anything on your credit report and/or delete any information regarding the account from your report.
posted by wierdo at 4:56 PM on October 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
If your other non-SL debts are so low (you said under $200, not clear if you meant total or each), then I really doubt those creditors would have sued you. Not worth the money. If it's been 11 years, you're likely off the hook. IANAL or an accountant, but I would just act as if those debts didn't exist and see if they contact me. Check your credit report. If you have to have someone in the US request it for you, do that. You could probably request it by phone or mail, too.
posted by elpea at 5:05 PM on October 17, 2010
posted by elpea at 5:05 PM on October 17, 2010
What state were the debts made in? Each state has a different statute of limitations for how long a creditor can sue you for your debt. Under the Fair Credit Reporting Act, a debt can only stay on your credit report for 7 years (FCRA summary, PDF)
If you have trouble accessing it from outside the U.S., get someone you trust in the States to obtain a copy for you, and email you screenshots. If you have a whole bunch of smaller debts, and it's been 10 years, I wouldn't worry too much about them. Don't repay these old debts, it will just restart the statute of limitations over again.
I would be most concerned about your student loan debt. Look over this page from the Federal Student Aid office, FSA collections. If payment logistics are the problem, perhaps you can set up a joint account with a trusted person in the U.S., and allow sufficient time to wire enough money to cover a payment before it's due. Then you would be able to pay online.
There is a student loan rehabilitation option.
Getting your free credit report won't send a horde of collectors after you or your family. Not taking care of your student loan debt could adversely impact you if you decide to obtain a job in the States. There's a potential for wage garnishment, and credit plays a factor in far too many things (renting, buying a house, buying a car, getting a job). That would be a nasty surprise to you and your spouse should you decide to relocate to the States. Assuming your spouse isn't a U.S. citizen, there might be visa issues that would delay finding a job, meaning you would be a sole earner for a bit. Your credit could affect your ability to support yourself and your spouse in this situation.
Tell your spouse. You could phrase it along the "I was young and dumb" line. They really should know. If they're not from the States, you should explain the debt laws here. I don't know your income, or how you share finances, but wouldn't your spouse get suspicious if money disappeared every month from your budget?
posted by shinyshiny at 5:38 PM on October 17, 2010
If you have trouble accessing it from outside the U.S., get someone you trust in the States to obtain a copy for you, and email you screenshots. If you have a whole bunch of smaller debts, and it's been 10 years, I wouldn't worry too much about them. Don't repay these old debts, it will just restart the statute of limitations over again.
I would be most concerned about your student loan debt. Look over this page from the Federal Student Aid office, FSA collections. If payment logistics are the problem, perhaps you can set up a joint account with a trusted person in the U.S., and allow sufficient time to wire enough money to cover a payment before it's due. Then you would be able to pay online.
There is a student loan rehabilitation option.
Getting your free credit report won't send a horde of collectors after you or your family. Not taking care of your student loan debt could adversely impact you if you decide to obtain a job in the States. There's a potential for wage garnishment, and credit plays a factor in far too many things (renting, buying a house, buying a car, getting a job). That would be a nasty surprise to you and your spouse should you decide to relocate to the States. Assuming your spouse isn't a U.S. citizen, there might be visa issues that would delay finding a job, meaning you would be a sole earner for a bit. Your credit could affect your ability to support yourself and your spouse in this situation.
Tell your spouse. You could phrase it along the "I was young and dumb" line. They really should know. If they're not from the States, you should explain the debt laws here. I don't know your income, or how you share finances, but wouldn't your spouse get suspicious if money disappeared every month from your budget?
posted by shinyshiny at 5:38 PM on October 17, 2010
Am I missing something here? Why don't you just get your credit report and find out what's on it.
The OP said, "When I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request."
posted by virago at 7:09 PM on October 17, 2010
The OP said, "When I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request."
posted by virago at 7:09 PM on October 17, 2010
Can you try requesting your free credit report via phone or letter? Online isn't the only way to do it. And would any of your friends or relatives in the States be willing to forward on your credit reports if they can't be sent outside the US?
If you're looking for a way to get funds in and out of a US bank account, wire transfers aren't the only option. XETrade does ACH/EFT conversions in and out of US and foreign bank accounts, and their exchange rates are fairly decent (much better than Paypal at any rate). There's no fees beyond what your bank would charge you, and IIRC you can send money to third party bank accounts (i.e., a friend or family member) if that's how you'd like to make payments.
posted by calistasm at 8:06 PM on October 17, 2010
If you're looking for a way to get funds in and out of a US bank account, wire transfers aren't the only option. XETrade does ACH/EFT conversions in and out of US and foreign bank accounts, and their exchange rates are fairly decent (much better than Paypal at any rate). There's no fees beyond what your bank would charge you, and IIRC you can send money to third party bank accounts (i.e., a friend or family member) if that's how you'd like to make payments.
posted by calistasm at 8:06 PM on October 17, 2010
Am I missing something here? Why don't you just get your credit report and find out what's on it.
The OP said, "When I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request."
There are mailing addresses for credit reporting agencies; they are usually available as alternative instructions on that same page of their websites where you get that message that you must be in the US. OP should use snail mail, perhaps with a US-based PO Box (there are many online services that can provide mailing addresses), especially the OP is considering moving back to the US some time.
Yet, as other posters have said, most of your debts have likely expired or will soon, except for the student loan debt.
Experian
P. O. Box 9595 [see note], Allen, TX 75013-9595 Tel: 888-397-3742
Note: Experian has a long history of changing its mailing address periodically, so the mailing address provided may not be accurate.
Equifax
P. O. Box 740241, Atlanta, GA 30374-0241 Tel: 800-685-1111
Trans Union
P. O. Box 1000, Chester, PA 19022 Tel: 800-888-4213
source: http://www.bcsalliance.com/cra_contact.html
posted by lesli212 at 8:08 PM on October 17, 2010
The OP said, "When I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request."
There are mailing addresses for credit reporting agencies; they are usually available as alternative instructions on that same page of their websites where you get that message that you must be in the US. OP should use snail mail, perhaps with a US-based PO Box (there are many online services that can provide mailing addresses), especially the OP is considering moving back to the US some time.
Yet, as other posters have said, most of your debts have likely expired or will soon, except for the student loan debt.
Experian
P. O. Box 9595 [see note], Allen, TX 75013-9595 Tel: 888-397-3742
Note: Experian has a long history of changing its mailing address periodically, so the mailing address provided may not be accurate.
Equifax
P. O. Box 740241, Atlanta, GA 30374-0241 Tel: 800-685-1111
Trans Union
P. O. Box 1000, Chester, PA 19022 Tel: 800-888-4213
source: http://www.bcsalliance.com/cra_contact.html
posted by lesli212 at 8:08 PM on October 17, 2010
Ok, its not clear from your post if you've been filing US side taxes. As a US citizen, even a dual national living abroad, you've got an obligation to file US tax returns every year.
If you haven't been when you visit the US Embassy to renew your US passport, State will check with Treasury and they'll deny the request.
Further complicating matters, you can't enter the US on a foreign passport. This gets the folks at the border agitated, I don't believe its a crime (I've got multiple but always enter on my US however this prohibition is well known in dual national circles) but they will detain and chat with you about your transgression.
"particularly since I do use their address for things like reporting to the US embassy, etc.?"
This sentence is confusing; why would you report to the US Embassy while living abroad? I've been out of the United States since 1997 and have lived in five countries; I've absolutely never reported to a US Embassy in any country, even while residing in several that were hostile to US interests. Not sure why'd you engage in this, curious if it was a misstatement.
"It is incredibly difficult to do international banking with the US."
Ten years or so ago it was indeed a PIA. Seems to have been cleaned up a great deal over the past five years, judging from my experience between The United States and mainstream European nations. That being said, sometimes there are delays that seem related to the Patriot Act but never more than three to five days (what on earth they are doing I have no idea). Of course if you're sending money from some Central American, Middle Eastern or African nations these delays or outright embargos might still be the case.
In terms of a possible issue you haven't mentioned but might be concerned about: foreign judgements (i.e., a US judgement while you're residing in another country) are very complex. I've known several ex-pats who have gotten themselves in trouble, and some even have had US Federal Tax Liens filed against them which were not honoured in their chosen nation of residence. Your experience / nation might be different, of course, so if you've got substantial assets you may which to consult with a Solicitor to insure you're not opening a can of worms here.
"When I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request."
Yes, the US credit agencies are complete jerks here, and for the benefit of those who have googled up a few mailing addresses, this was my experience even when it comes to snail mail. They seem to track your US side last address of residence, and as far as I can tell the longer you've been residing out of the United States the more difficult getting copies of your credit reports becomes. FWIW, I haven't lived in America since 1997, tried both the online and snail mail routes about four years ago after I had a serious case of UK ID theft (wanted to see if the US side was clean), and NEVER was able to satisfy these guys I was who I was claiming I was. Passport, birth certificates, all matter of ID and facts-only-known-to-me presented. Still couldn't progress.
If there is a bright side then, as you probably know, the US side credit report means precisely SQUAT when you're living abroad, so eventually I just gave up trying to secure copies of mine.
"I hate that I ever allowed myself to be so delinquent. In the years ensuing I have made sure that nothing similar happened again in my financial life. Please help me make amends."
Don't. You're taking positive steps just by writing this question. Now just follow through and clean up what you find.
posted by Mutant at 12:43 AM on October 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you haven't been when you visit the US Embassy to renew your US passport, State will check with Treasury and they'll deny the request.
Further complicating matters, you can't enter the US on a foreign passport. This gets the folks at the border agitated, I don't believe its a crime (I've got multiple but always enter on my US however this prohibition is well known in dual national circles) but they will detain and chat with you about your transgression.
"particularly since I do use their address for things like reporting to the US embassy, etc.?"
This sentence is confusing; why would you report to the US Embassy while living abroad? I've been out of the United States since 1997 and have lived in five countries; I've absolutely never reported to a US Embassy in any country, even while residing in several that were hostile to US interests. Not sure why'd you engage in this, curious if it was a misstatement.
"It is incredibly difficult to do international banking with the US."
Ten years or so ago it was indeed a PIA. Seems to have been cleaned up a great deal over the past five years, judging from my experience between The United States and mainstream European nations. That being said, sometimes there are delays that seem related to the Patriot Act but never more than three to five days (what on earth they are doing I have no idea). Of course if you're sending money from some Central American, Middle Eastern or African nations these delays or outright embargos might still be the case.
In terms of a possible issue you haven't mentioned but might be concerned about: foreign judgements (i.e., a US judgement while you're residing in another country) are very complex. I've known several ex-pats who have gotten themselves in trouble, and some even have had US Federal Tax Liens filed against them which were not honoured in their chosen nation of residence. Your experience / nation might be different, of course, so if you've got substantial assets you may which to consult with a Solicitor to insure you're not opening a can of worms here.
"When I try to access my free credit report get a message that I need to be within the US to make that request."
Yes, the US credit agencies are complete jerks here, and for the benefit of those who have googled up a few mailing addresses, this was my experience even when it comes to snail mail. They seem to track your US side last address of residence, and as far as I can tell the longer you've been residing out of the United States the more difficult getting copies of your credit reports becomes. FWIW, I haven't lived in America since 1997, tried both the online and snail mail routes about four years ago after I had a serious case of UK ID theft (wanted to see if the US side was clean), and NEVER was able to satisfy these guys I was who I was claiming I was. Passport, birth certificates, all matter of ID and facts-only-known-to-me presented. Still couldn't progress.
If there is a bright side then, as you probably know, the US side credit report means precisely SQUAT when you're living abroad, so eventually I just gave up trying to secure copies of mine.
"I hate that I ever allowed myself to be so delinquent. In the years ensuing I have made sure that nothing similar happened again in my financial life. Please help me make amends."
Don't. You're taking positive steps just by writing this question. Now just follow through and clean up what you find.
posted by Mutant at 12:43 AM on October 18, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mod note: From the OP:
I really appreciate everyone's responses. I am going to go ahead and arrange for one of my family members to request my credit report online from the US. Also, I need to start filing US taxes.posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:29 AM on October 18, 2010
Beyond that, I still need some more advice before I can finalize a plan of action. I would be grateful for further clarification on the things that I mention below, even if it simply to point me in the direction of places where I can get the information I need.
If you haven't been when you visit the US Embassy to renew your US passport, State will check with Treasury and they'll deny the request.
umm, that didn't happen, even though I haven't been filing taxes. Renewed my passport last summer. I guess I need to start figuring this paperwork out too, though, so thanks for the heads up. Do I need to file backdated returns? Or if I simply start filing from now on, will that be sufficient?
why would you report to the US Embassy while living abroad?
because I live in a country where it might actually be useful, for safety reasons, to be on the embassy's list of citizens. This also means that it's the kind of country from where it is difficult to do international banking with the US.
Each state has a different statute of limitations for how long a creditor can sue you for your debt.
From that list, it appears that I was in a state where the SOL for written debt is 15 years. Does that also change what can be reported on my credit report?
Tell your spouse. You could phrase it along the "I was young and dumb" line. They really should know. If they're not from the States, you should explain the debt laws here. I don't know your income, or how you share finances, but wouldn't your spouse get suspicious if money disappeared every month from your budget?
I understand that my spouse really should know. Our finances are sufficiently separate that missing funds would not be the problem. My concern was more whether I had to report spouse's income when I go about setting up loan rehab payments, etc. My spouse's health is not such that I can afford to add stress for them until I know for certain what steps I'm taking, and have set those up. I really don't want to go into any more detail than that, but I do appreciate the concern.
Many thanks, all. Your answers have been very helpful, and I eagerly await further responses.
Credit cards aren't considered "written debt," they're "open accounts," although card companies fight tooth and nail against that determination, despite it being written into federal law. The statute of limitations and the reporting limitations are completely separate deals. The statute of limitations is governed by state law, while the length of time a particular debt may be reported by the CRAs is governed by federal law (specifically the Fair Credit Reporting Act).
That said, activity on the account initiated by you can reset the date of last activity, thus allowing the creditor to ding your credit for another seven years. (some junk debt buyers do this fraudulently in an attempt to get you to pay debt you no longer owe) That's why you should absolutely not promise to pay anything to anyone and communicate only in writing. Be sure to keep copies. This will be a pain in the ass, given that you're not in the country, but it's the only way to protect yourself from lying sleaze that will almost always surface when you start paying off old debts.
Go to creditboards.com and read everything you can on their forum, even if you're not comfortable posting and asking questions there. It's a great resource with hundreds of people who are or have been in your position.
posted by wierdo at 7:42 AM on October 18, 2010
That said, activity on the account initiated by you can reset the date of last activity, thus allowing the creditor to ding your credit for another seven years. (some junk debt buyers do this fraudulently in an attempt to get you to pay debt you no longer owe) That's why you should absolutely not promise to pay anything to anyone and communicate only in writing. Be sure to keep copies. This will be a pain in the ass, given that you're not in the country, but it's the only way to protect yourself from lying sleaze that will almost always surface when you start paying off old debts.
Go to creditboards.com and read everything you can on their forum, even if you're not comfortable posting and asking questions there. It's a great resource with hundreds of people who are or have been in your position.
posted by wierdo at 7:42 AM on October 18, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by BoopAndMarc at 4:27 PM on October 17, 2010