Flake, unserious, or maybe...shy?
September 20, 2010 6:52 PM Subscribe
Why might my co-worker talk about the two of us hanging out after work and then never follow through? Details of our situation inside, of course.
One of my co-workers and I have gotten to be pretty good work friends. I stepped out of my shy shell and made the effort to get to know him when he was hired about 6 months ago, because he seemed outgoing, confident and fun, and I was attracted to him in a safe, "way too good looking for me" sort of way. He gave me about the same amount of attention as he gave everyone else at first, but the casualness of our work environment allowed me to spend more time around him and we developed a kind of giddy, jokey rapport that now belongs to just the two of us.
But I've also seen the sober, sincere side of him that few of our other co-workers have seen. Here is what our friendship is like at this point: Despite all of the banter, I do confide in him about serious things. He listens to everything I say with interest (as in, asks questions), and if we are interrupted by, y'know, having to do work, he always asks me to continue what I was saying at the next opportunity (something very few people do even out of politeness, I've noticed). If one of us has to be in a certain part of the office, the other eventually finds work to do in that part too. We take turns buying each other coffee. We both smile a lot around each other. Gradually, he's begun standing closer and closer to me when we speak or when we're just relaxing, and I've detected that certain haziness in his eyes a few times.
So here's the problem: in the last couple of weeks, he has mentioned to me on three separate occasions that he thinks we should do x outside of work. But, it's always said in that overly jocular, jokey tone of voice that we tend to use with each other when we're not necessarily being serious. Fearing rejection if I were to change the tone up, I respond with a "yeah, totally! let's!" in a matched tone. And then after that...silence. Or change of subject. From both of us. And then one of us leaves and despite there being a staff phone directory, neither of us actually contacts the other to carry out said plans. In fact, we don't even have contact outside of work yet, with the exception of being pretty inactive Facebook friends.
I know that my lack of follow through comes in huge part from being severely shy at heart, but also because I wonder why -- despite all of the signs of not just attraction, but true interest in friendship there -- he doesn't just ask for my number or nail something down. What seems to be going on here? Does it seem possible that he's really not into this or even our friendship, despite all of the signs he's giving off?
One of my co-workers and I have gotten to be pretty good work friends. I stepped out of my shy shell and made the effort to get to know him when he was hired about 6 months ago, because he seemed outgoing, confident and fun, and I was attracted to him in a safe, "way too good looking for me" sort of way. He gave me about the same amount of attention as he gave everyone else at first, but the casualness of our work environment allowed me to spend more time around him and we developed a kind of giddy, jokey rapport that now belongs to just the two of us.
But I've also seen the sober, sincere side of him that few of our other co-workers have seen. Here is what our friendship is like at this point: Despite all of the banter, I do confide in him about serious things. He listens to everything I say with interest (as in, asks questions), and if we are interrupted by, y'know, having to do work, he always asks me to continue what I was saying at the next opportunity (something very few people do even out of politeness, I've noticed). If one of us has to be in a certain part of the office, the other eventually finds work to do in that part too. We take turns buying each other coffee. We both smile a lot around each other. Gradually, he's begun standing closer and closer to me when we speak or when we're just relaxing, and I've detected that certain haziness in his eyes a few times.
So here's the problem: in the last couple of weeks, he has mentioned to me on three separate occasions that he thinks we should do x outside of work. But, it's always said in that overly jocular, jokey tone of voice that we tend to use with each other when we're not necessarily being serious. Fearing rejection if I were to change the tone up, I respond with a "yeah, totally! let's!" in a matched tone. And then after that...silence. Or change of subject. From both of us. And then one of us leaves and despite there being a staff phone directory, neither of us actually contacts the other to carry out said plans. In fact, we don't even have contact outside of work yet, with the exception of being pretty inactive Facebook friends.
I know that my lack of follow through comes in huge part from being severely shy at heart, but also because I wonder why -- despite all of the signs of not just attraction, but true interest in friendship there -- he doesn't just ask for my number or nail something down. What seems to be going on here? Does it seem possible that he's really not into this or even our friendship, despite all of the signs he's giving off?
Just because he's the guy doesn't mean it's his responsibility to take the initiative. Maybe he's shy, too.
It sounds like he likes you. You should ask him out for dinner, drinks, a movie, a concert, or whatever you think would be fun. No need to wait for him to ask you.
posted by alms at 6:58 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
It sounds like he likes you. You should ask him out for dinner, drinks, a movie, a concert, or whatever you think would be fun. No need to wait for him to ask you.
posted by alms at 6:58 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
My superficial impression based on what you're saying is that it sounds like the two of you are equally matched in being sort-of but not really into the idea. From what you say it sounds like he's waiting for you to provide the push over the edge, and you're waiting for the same thing from him. You're sort of casting it like it's about him, but you seem to be just as iffy.
posted by facetious at 6:58 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by facetious at 6:58 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
My guess? He's worried about rejection. Ask him out! Have a specific date and time in mind.
posted by smorange at 6:59 PM on September 20, 2010
posted by smorange at 6:59 PM on September 20, 2010
Best answer: Here's one opinion: he thinks he has made the first move by asking you and thus the ball is in your court to respond with more than just a hypothetical yes. I could easily see a respectful or simply shy guy not wanting to press the issue by asking for your phone number. Next time he asks, instead of jokingly saying yeah, go on with the next step of planning: say yes and propose a date and time, or say yes and ask him when he's free. From what you've put down here I can't tell if his intentions are friendly or also romantic but that's something you can find out by hanging out!
posted by Meagan at 7:02 PM on September 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by Meagan at 7:02 PM on September 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
Best answer: All of that insecurity you feel about why he hasn't asked you out yet -- that is exactly the way he feels except the other side of the coin. Or in other words, you could probably replace 'him' with 'her' and 'why hasn't he ...' with 'how can I get the courage to ...' and you would have his exact side of the story. Shyness cuts both ways, and somebody has to break the deadlock: it's only tradition that says the male has to do it.
posted by Rhomboid at 7:08 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Rhomboid at 7:08 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Good thing the holiday season is just around the corner... this is what company Christmas parties were invented for.
posted by spilon at 7:11 PM on September 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by spilon at 7:11 PM on September 20, 2010 [4 favorites]
Contact him outside of work and ask him to do something.
posted by lakerk at 7:15 PM on September 20, 2010
posted by lakerk at 7:15 PM on September 20, 2010
NO NO NO...A thousand years ago I took a job at an ad agency. Close to Christmas time, I asked a worker if there was to be a party. She looked around, and then said in a whisper: NO. Don't even ask about one. The VP got drunk at one a few years ago, made his secretary pregnant, and left his wife and married her. That was the end of office Christmas parties at that place.
Parties are for drinking and revelry. If you want to date the guy, be upfront and simply say Let's go out and have enjoy a dinner and nice talk outside the office.
posted by Postroad at 7:17 PM on September 20, 2010
Parties are for drinking and revelry. If you want to date the guy, be upfront and simply say Let's go out and have enjoy a dinner and nice talk outside the office.
posted by Postroad at 7:17 PM on September 20, 2010
Next time:
Him: "hey, we should do x outside of work!"
You: "I would love to do x! What about tomorrow, is that good for you"?
posted by iconomy at 7:18 PM on September 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
Him: "hey, we should do x outside of work!"
You: "I would love to do x! What about tomorrow, is that good for you"?
posted by iconomy at 7:18 PM on September 20, 2010 [5 favorites]
Best answer: N-thing the answers above. The door has been opened, just step through. Regardless of how we seem on the outside, I think we're all a bit shy about asking people to be our friends outside of our normal contexts. There's something so vulnerable about asking, "will you be my friend?" Multiply this by a dozen if you want to be more than friends.
posted by advicepig at 7:18 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by advicepig at 7:18 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
One of you has to step up to the plate.
Next time he jokingly says, "we should do such-and-such", take a deep breath, be brave, look him in the eyes and say "I'd like that", with an (endearingly cute) smile. No fun bantering reply!
Then the ball is in his court to take it further, suggesting a time and date. If he doesn't? Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, but you're not humiliated as badly as if you ask him out.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 7:21 PM on September 20, 2010
Next time he jokingly says, "we should do such-and-such", take a deep breath, be brave, look him in the eyes and say "I'd like that", with an (endearingly cute) smile. No fun bantering reply!
Then the ball is in his court to take it further, suggesting a time and date. If he doesn't? Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained, but you're not humiliated as badly as if you ask him out.
posted by malibustacey9999 at 7:21 PM on September 20, 2010
Next time he jokingly says, "we should do such-and-such", take a deep breath, be brave, look him in the eyes and say "I'd like that", are you free next Saturday? Enough pussy-footing around!
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:27 PM on September 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:27 PM on September 20, 2010 [3 favorites]
Fearing rejection if I were to change the tone up
The thing about acting in a way that protects you from rejection is that it often prevents you from clearly communicating. He may have meant it like, "Let's have lunch Tuesday at Glenn's on Montrose at noon," or he may have meant it like, "We should get together sometime..." but either way, if you approach him and say, "Let's get that lunch at Glenn's this Tuesday--noon ok?" he'll probably say yes.
I say, "We should..." a lot, and usually I mean it but also usually I forget to follow up on it. Just today I said something about maybe going out for Chinese food and my friend was like, "Tomorrow?" and it wasn't at all what I expected but I gladly agreed.
Just don't think of it as a date unless one of you uses the word "date."
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:29 PM on September 20, 2010
The thing about acting in a way that protects you from rejection is that it often prevents you from clearly communicating. He may have meant it like, "Let's have lunch Tuesday at Glenn's on Montrose at noon," or he may have meant it like, "We should get together sometime..." but either way, if you approach him and say, "Let's get that lunch at Glenn's this Tuesday--noon ok?" he'll probably say yes.
I say, "We should..." a lot, and usually I mean it but also usually I forget to follow up on it. Just today I said something about maybe going out for Chinese food and my friend was like, "Tomorrow?" and it wasn't at all what I expected but I gladly agreed.
Just don't think of it as a date unless one of you uses the word "date."
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:29 PM on September 20, 2010
You realise he could have asked an identical question about the amazing girl he met at work, and how he keeps dropping hints but she responds in a jokey way?
Lord knows I'm no good at this, but you need to step up to the plate here.
posted by twirlypen at 7:34 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Lord knows I'm no good at this, but you need to step up to the plate here.
posted by twirlypen at 7:34 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Hey, there's an [x thing we both like] on right now, want to catch it after work tomorrow?"
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:42 PM on September 20, 2010
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 7:42 PM on September 20, 2010
houndsoflove: "Why might my co-worker talk about the two of us hanging out after work and then never follow through? "
Because basically, he's made three overtures towards doing something, you've replied semi-snidely each time, and the man is not made of Teflon. This is totally yours to fix - follow up on something with an actual invitation.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:57 PM on September 20, 2010
Because basically, he's made three overtures towards doing something, you've replied semi-snidely each time, and the man is not made of Teflon. This is totally yours to fix - follow up on something with an actual invitation.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:57 PM on September 20, 2010
Best answer: Sometimes it's nice to have friends at work, and have that as a separate social circle from friends outside work. He may just want to keep it as is.
Also, I have run into problems where I have been friendly to women in my workplace -- and have genuinely enjoyed that friendship -- only to have it misinterpreted as me being interested in something more. When I then had to make it clear that I wasn't interested in anything more, it then became slightly awkward for a while.
So, I don't know exactly what I'm suggesting here, but just be sure you're not misinterpreting his friendliness as something it's not. What may seem to you to be 'flakiness', 'unseriousness', or 'shyness' may be none of those things, and may be simply be a guy that likes having someone to chat to in the office and has no interest in it being anything more than that.
posted by modernnomad at 8:00 PM on September 20, 2010
Also, I have run into problems where I have been friendly to women in my workplace -- and have genuinely enjoyed that friendship -- only to have it misinterpreted as me being interested in something more. When I then had to make it clear that I wasn't interested in anything more, it then became slightly awkward for a while.
So, I don't know exactly what I'm suggesting here, but just be sure you're not misinterpreting his friendliness as something it's not. What may seem to you to be 'flakiness', 'unseriousness', or 'shyness' may be none of those things, and may be simply be a guy that likes having someone to chat to in the office and has no interest in it being anything more than that.
posted by modernnomad at 8:00 PM on September 20, 2010
I agree, I think he's waiting for a positive, sincere response from you. This is his way of testing the water, asking in a joking way so that if you reject his offer, he can save face by pretending to be kidding around. Most of the shy guys I know just need a little encouragement, and to feel safe in making the next move.
posted by lucysparrow at 8:01 PM on September 20, 2010
posted by lucysparrow at 8:01 PM on September 20, 2010
Response by poster: Because basically, he's made three overtures towards doing something, you've replied semi-snidely each time, and the man is not made of Teflon.
I see lucysparrow's point that by asking that way, he's probably saving face. But to be honest, I'd never even reflected on the fact that my responding in a similar way could be taken as snideness. Hearing that in itself from an outside source might even be enough motivation to make me respond sincerely next time, since I genuinely do care about him. Thank you.
posted by houndsoflove at 8:12 PM on September 20, 2010
I see lucysparrow's point that by asking that way, he's probably saving face. But to be honest, I'd never even reflected on the fact that my responding in a similar way could be taken as snideness. Hearing that in itself from an outside source might even be enough motivation to make me respond sincerely next time, since I genuinely do care about him. Thank you.
posted by houndsoflove at 8:12 PM on September 20, 2010
You should definitely open up the conversation about this, not wait for him. He's already showed interest three times, and, from his perspective, gotten nothing. It would not be unreasonable of him to feel discouraged.
posted by wayland at 8:52 PM on September 20, 2010
posted by wayland at 8:52 PM on September 20, 2010
n-thing everyone's suggestion that you should pin him down to a definite date, time, activity. It will take five seconds to do so, and it should open the door to awesomeness.
posted by nihraguk at 9:07 PM on September 20, 2010
posted by nihraguk at 9:07 PM on September 20, 2010
Hearing that in itself from an outside source might even be enough motivation to make me respond sincerely next time, since I genuinely do care about him.
There probably isn't going to be a next time.
posted by grouse at 9:27 PM on September 20, 2010
There probably isn't going to be a next time.
posted by grouse at 9:27 PM on September 20, 2010
I'd think of an after-work errand--something new or perfectly simple but somewhat daunting for a shy person that I don't want to do alone the first time and all I need is some moral support (anything from dropping off shoes to be repaired in a new neighborhood to looking at a new establishment that just opened it's doors) and ask if he would be up for going with you (today or tomorrow); it'll only take xx minutes. Then promise him a drink or a pizza or whatever afterwards and see how it goes. He can gracefully decline and you can save face if he doesn't go for it.
posted by Anitanola at 9:31 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Anitanola at 9:31 PM on September 20, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: There probably isn't going to be a next time.
Although I think grouse may be overstating - there's at least a chance that he thinks you're trying to blow him off (FWIW, after three evasive replies, I would think there's a hint that I should take). So there's a chance he won't ask again, but that doesn't matter, because there's absolutely no reason for you to wait for him to ask again. You should ask him, the very next time you see him to do something at a specific time. Need an additional push? This always helps me.
posted by Ragged Richard at 10:02 PM on September 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Although I think grouse may be overstating - there's at least a chance that he thinks you're trying to blow him off (FWIW, after three evasive replies, I would think there's a hint that I should take). So there's a chance he won't ask again, but that doesn't matter, because there's absolutely no reason for you to wait for him to ask again. You should ask him, the very next time you see him to do something at a specific time. Need an additional push? This always helps me.
posted by Ragged Richard at 10:02 PM on September 20, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I think there are a few possibilities. He may be shy/afraid of rejection (since he did the asking and your answers could be interpreted as a blow-off).
However, it's also possibile that he's generally a popular person with a lot of friends and romantic possibilities. The way you describe him, he sounds like a good friend of mine. Good looking, good listener, sensitive, outgoing....When I first met this friend he was very friendly and even flirty at times, but he did not have romantic intentions towards me, it turned out. However he still acts very close, affectionate, etc. Guys like this- confident, good-looking, nice, etc, frankly are not short of admirers, and also can be the type to be flirty but not have it mean anything...just because they can. Of course, your friend might be different, and totally head-over-heels for you, and I do think you should at least give him a direct, positive sign to see.
posted by bearette at 10:51 PM on September 20, 2010
However, it's also possibile that he's generally a popular person with a lot of friends and romantic possibilities. The way you describe him, he sounds like a good friend of mine. Good looking, good listener, sensitive, outgoing....When I first met this friend he was very friendly and even flirty at times, but he did not have romantic intentions towards me, it turned out. However he still acts very close, affectionate, etc. Guys like this- confident, good-looking, nice, etc, frankly are not short of admirers, and also can be the type to be flirty but not have it mean anything...just because they can. Of course, your friend might be different, and totally head-over-heels for you, and I do think you should at least give him a direct, positive sign to see.
posted by bearette at 10:51 PM on September 20, 2010
"We should do ____ outside of work."
"I'm probably free on _____ or ______. What about you?"
I have been in a situation like this before. And when the conversation didn't go exactly as I imagined it might, I lost confidence and didn't know how to fix the situation. For me, being confined to a small number of possible, desirable outcomes would have been ideal.
posted by germdisco at 11:13 PM on September 20, 2010
"I'm probably free on _____ or ______. What about you?"
I have been in a situation like this before. And when the conversation didn't go exactly as I imagined it might, I lost confidence and didn't know how to fix the situation. For me, being confined to a small number of possible, desirable outcomes would have been ideal.
posted by germdisco at 11:13 PM on September 20, 2010
Dumb question - is it possible that he has a girlfriend?
posted by benzenedream at 11:40 PM on September 20, 2010
posted by benzenedream at 11:40 PM on September 20, 2010
Yeah; seems like you've got a possible combination of two shy but interested people.
If you want to try to step up with little rejection, I'd ask on Friday morning if he wants to get a drink after work. That's maybe a 1/2 hour commitment.
If he genuinely can't, he'll probably say "I can't tonight, how about ____?"
If he's interested, you've now stepped up and made your interest clear.
And if you do go out, you'll be able to gauge pretty quickly if you're both on the same page. He slams a beer and has to run; there's your answer. But I don't think he will.
Just go for it.
posted by dzaz at 2:58 AM on September 21, 2010
If you want to try to step up with little rejection, I'd ask on Friday morning if he wants to get a drink after work. That's maybe a 1/2 hour commitment.
If he genuinely can't, he'll probably say "I can't tonight, how about ____?"
If he's interested, you've now stepped up and made your interest clear.
And if you do go out, you'll be able to gauge pretty quickly if you're both on the same page. He slams a beer and has to run; there's your answer. But I don't think he will.
Just go for it.
posted by dzaz at 2:58 AM on September 21, 2010
Response by poster: Dumb question - is it possible that he has a girlfriend?
He doesn't. He is, however, the type of person that bearette suggested, with a lot of female friends. I would assume that a few of them are probably also interested in him for the same reasons that I am. He's never talked about any of them to me, though, and doesn't appear to have dated anyone in the time we've known each other. He has also never talked to me about romantic or sexual interest in other women at all, which would be a nice way of letting me down if he sensed that I was getting the wrong impression or decided he's not interested.
While I might have totally botched the invites, I still think that my interest in him is made pretty clear when we see each other. I do still make an effort to be around him constantly, I still make an effort to connect with his interests (as he does to me) and I do still laugh, smile, and blush like a teenager around him sometimes. I suppose I don't understand why, if he was uninterested in the possibility of us becoming serious friends or more, he would amp up the flirting and the wanting to be around me, rather than toning or shutting it down. But I guess this is just me steeling myself for what needs to be done, which is SCARY but right.
posted by houndsoflove at 5:02 AM on September 21, 2010
He doesn't. He is, however, the type of person that bearette suggested, with a lot of female friends. I would assume that a few of them are probably also interested in him for the same reasons that I am. He's never talked about any of them to me, though, and doesn't appear to have dated anyone in the time we've known each other. He has also never talked to me about romantic or sexual interest in other women at all, which would be a nice way of letting me down if he sensed that I was getting the wrong impression or decided he's not interested.
While I might have totally botched the invites, I still think that my interest in him is made pretty clear when we see each other. I do still make an effort to be around him constantly, I still make an effort to connect with his interests (as he does to me) and I do still laugh, smile, and blush like a teenager around him sometimes. I suppose I don't understand why, if he was uninterested in the possibility of us becoming serious friends or more, he would amp up the flirting and the wanting to be around me, rather than toning or shutting it down. But I guess this is just me steeling myself for what needs to be done, which is SCARY but right.
posted by houndsoflove at 5:02 AM on September 21, 2010
Response by poster: He has also never talked to me about romantic or sexual interest in other women at all
...he's not gay, though. I do know that.
posted by houndsoflove at 5:04 AM on September 21, 2010
...he's not gay, though. I do know that.
posted by houndsoflove at 5:04 AM on September 21, 2010
Tell him how you feel. He's taking your responses as rejections. Up the ante to dinner.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:30 AM on September 21, 2010
posted by Ironmouth at 6:30 AM on September 21, 2010
I still think that my interest in him is made pretty clear when we see each other. I do still make an effort to be around him constantly, I still make an effort to connect with his interests (as he does to me) and I do still laugh, smile, and blush like a teenager around him sometimes.
For many men, SAYING something is being clear. The rest of it is mixed signals.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:39 AM on September 21, 2010
For many men, SAYING something is being clear. The rest of it is mixed signals.
posted by Ironmouth at 6:39 AM on September 21, 2010
Tomorrow you go into work, and you say something like this:
"This band we both like is playing tomorrow, and a few of my friends and I are going. Would you like to join us?"
"There is a lecture at the college on Topic X that we are both interested in. Would you like to go check it out?"
"You know that movie we've been hearing about, starring Our Favorite Actor A? I just found out it's playing at the theater in town. Wanna go?"
"Jeez, what a stressful day it's been at work! I'm meeting a few friends at a bar around the corner. Care to join us?"
The common element in these kinds of invitations is it's not just You and Your Date sharing possibly awkward moments over dinner. There are either other people around to take the heat off, or there something else to concentrate on. Classic first date situations, plus none of them imply that you will be alone if he doesn't choose to join you, which gives him the chance to say no gracefully.
However he responds, you learn what you need to know.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:24 AM on September 21, 2010
"This band we both like is playing tomorrow, and a few of my friends and I are going. Would you like to join us?"
"There is a lecture at the college on Topic X that we are both interested in. Would you like to go check it out?"
"You know that movie we've been hearing about, starring Our Favorite Actor A? I just found out it's playing at the theater in town. Wanna go?"
"Jeez, what a stressful day it's been at work! I'm meeting a few friends at a bar around the corner. Care to join us?"
The common element in these kinds of invitations is it's not just You and Your Date sharing possibly awkward moments over dinner. There are either other people around to take the heat off, or there something else to concentrate on. Classic first date situations, plus none of them imply that you will be alone if he doesn't choose to join you, which gives him the chance to say no gracefully.
However he responds, you learn what you need to know.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 7:24 AM on September 21, 2010
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posted by nadawi at 6:56 PM on September 20, 2010 [3 favorites]