How to Handle Weight With Tact?
July 27, 2010 10:16 AM Subscribe
If you have been obese, how do you prefer friends and acquaintances to approach the issue of weight and size when it comes up?
Some examples of instances that may become awkward for me or an overweight friend:
- fat jokes on TV
- a thin dinner partner complaining about his or her weight
- whether a very overweight person would like to be invited to something he or she may not be able to participate in, e.g., hiking, swimming, a long bike ride
- dealing with size restrictions or too-small seating areas at restaurants, on airplanes and rides at theme parks
- going shopping for clothes
I understand that many obese people are able to do things like swimming or jogging, but I am unsure whether or not to extend the invitation because I don't want them to be embarrassed if they feel like they may not be able to keep up. I would really appreciate to hear the opinions of people who are currently or who have been seriously overweight or obese to chime in about how they would like their friends to deal with these types of situations, among others.
Are you offended if people seem to be overly sensitive about your weight and avoid any mention of it in conversation? How would you prefer it be handled?
Some examples of instances that may become awkward for me or an overweight friend:
- fat jokes on TV
- a thin dinner partner complaining about his or her weight
- whether a very overweight person would like to be invited to something he or she may not be able to participate in, e.g., hiking, swimming, a long bike ride
- dealing with size restrictions or too-small seating areas at restaurants, on airplanes and rides at theme parks
- going shopping for clothes
I understand that many obese people are able to do things like swimming or jogging, but I am unsure whether or not to extend the invitation because I don't want them to be embarrassed if they feel like they may not be able to keep up. I would really appreciate to hear the opinions of people who are currently or who have been seriously overweight or obese to chime in about how they would like their friends to deal with these types of situations, among others.
Are you offended if people seem to be overly sensitive about your weight and avoid any mention of it in conversation? How would you prefer it be handled?
I weighed, at my heaviest, 514 lbs., I had gastric bypass surgery a month ago and have lost about 100 lbs since I began my journey in January. I know what it's like to be too big for a lot of things.
Fat jokes are okay if they're funny. But things like Joel McHale's fat jokes on "The Soup" can just be mean potshots. But if you're sitting down watching TV with a fat person and something strikes you funny...laugh.
I've never been too upset with a thin person complaining. People have different comfort levels and a lot of people don't feel good in their own skin. I understand that.
I want to be invited to everything. I want the chance to decline if I have to. I try to be considerate to people and when I don't think I can physically do something, I bow out. But let me make that decision, not you pre-emptively.
We're used to not fitting in corner booths and not riding roller coasters. If you're making a reservation...ask for a table instead of a booth. For airplanes, check their policy. For amusement parks, the rides I can't ride, I won't. Don't let that stop you from enjoying them.
I don't often shop for clothes in stores, so I really can't tell you how I'd feel about that.
Usually I don't mind it if people have thought about things beforehand and did things quietly to make my experience more comfortable. But when things become too obvious, I don't like that.
I don't mind talking about me being fat. I am. It's a fact. I'm not just big-boned and I'm not chubby or pleasantly plump. I'm super-obese. It's a clinical term. I don't mind the word fat, either.
But really, that's just me. I'm only one person...despite weighing enough for 2 or 3. :)
posted by inturnaround at 10:32 AM on July 27, 2010 [20 favorites]
Fat jokes are okay if they're funny. But things like Joel McHale's fat jokes on "The Soup" can just be mean potshots. But if you're sitting down watching TV with a fat person and something strikes you funny...laugh.
I've never been too upset with a thin person complaining. People have different comfort levels and a lot of people don't feel good in their own skin. I understand that.
I want to be invited to everything. I want the chance to decline if I have to. I try to be considerate to people and when I don't think I can physically do something, I bow out. But let me make that decision, not you pre-emptively.
We're used to not fitting in corner booths and not riding roller coasters. If you're making a reservation...ask for a table instead of a booth. For airplanes, check their policy. For amusement parks, the rides I can't ride, I won't. Don't let that stop you from enjoying them.
I don't often shop for clothes in stores, so I really can't tell you how I'd feel about that.
Usually I don't mind it if people have thought about things beforehand and did things quietly to make my experience more comfortable. But when things become too obvious, I don't like that.
I don't mind talking about me being fat. I am. It's a fact. I'm not just big-boned and I'm not chubby or pleasantly plump. I'm super-obese. It's a clinical term. I don't mind the word fat, either.
But really, that's just me. I'm only one person...despite weighing enough for 2 or 3. :)
posted by inturnaround at 10:32 AM on July 27, 2010 [20 favorites]
Regarding invitations to do stuff - absolutely extend the invitation. It hurts to be left out. If I leave myself out, that's one thing. I don't want to slow anyone down (I am not only overweight, I'm also short with wittle tiny legs), but if I know it's going to be more of a leisurely stroll than a slog, I'll be coming along.
Conversationally, it makes me feel pretty lousy when it's obvious that people are avoiding talking about something or walking on eggshells around me. That's hurtful. I don't care if other people talk about their own weight - I understand that each and every person has their own self image and ideal and idea of what's "skinny" or "fat". However, if someone starts going on about how fat they are, then look at me, mumble a bit, stutter, and change the subject drastically... well, that makes this fluffy girl kind of annoyed. And it happens. A lot. If you're able to have a frank and honest and open discussion with me and the topic of weight is in there - that's great. That's fine. I can talk about things like an adult, honest. If you're feeling ashamed of yourself for bringing up the topic, then you probably shouldn't bring it up. If you're feeling embarrassed or awkward, then you probably shouldn't bring it up.
posted by lriG rorriM at 10:37 AM on July 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
Conversationally, it makes me feel pretty lousy when it's obvious that people are avoiding talking about something or walking on eggshells around me. That's hurtful. I don't care if other people talk about their own weight - I understand that each and every person has their own self image and ideal and idea of what's "skinny" or "fat". However, if someone starts going on about how fat they are, then look at me, mumble a bit, stutter, and change the subject drastically... well, that makes this fluffy girl kind of annoyed. And it happens. A lot. If you're able to have a frank and honest and open discussion with me and the topic of weight is in there - that's great. That's fine. I can talk about things like an adult, honest. If you're feeling ashamed of yourself for bringing up the topic, then you probably shouldn't bring it up. If you're feeling embarrassed or awkward, then you probably shouldn't bring it up.
posted by lriG rorriM at 10:37 AM on July 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
Just being generally sensitive is good for me. As far as hiking or jogging you should let the obese person set the pace; I personally get kind of embarrassed about asking people to slow down and a couple of times I've unwisely pushed myself almost to the point of collapsing.
Also, hills suck even more when you have to carry the weight up, but I mostly mention that because of one particular experience on a backpacking trip when my companion had this odd habit of dashing up a hilly street for five blocks or so, then changing his mind about which way he wanted to go, retracing his steps, and dashing up a different street. He would do this three or four times in a row and just could not understand why I would get so annoyed with him for it.
posted by XMLicious at 10:43 AM on July 27, 2010
Also, hills suck even more when you have to carry the weight up, but I mostly mention that because of one particular experience on a backpacking trip when my companion had this odd habit of dashing up a hilly street for five blocks or so, then changing his mind about which way he wanted to go, retracing his steps, and dashing up a different street. He would do this three or four times in a row and just could not understand why I would get so annoyed with him for it.
posted by XMLicious at 10:43 AM on July 27, 2010
I'm overweight, and I'd prefer to be treated by friends just as they'd treat anyone else. It's not necessary to treat me as if I have some sort of disability. And I don't mean that in a flip or fighty way - I really don't see any reason to treat fat people differently from thin people. To your specific questions:
*Fat jokes on TV are annoying for me, but it would be even more annoying for a friend to look at me awkwardly or something. I guess I don't really take them personally.
*I don't care if skinny people complain about their weight - life has taught me that body image has very little to do with outward appearance. I felt a lot less attractive when I was a "normal" sized teenager, for instance.
* Yeah, invite me to do stuff. If I don't think I'm in good enough shape, I won't go, but I'd rather get to decide that for myself.
*Restrictions have never been an issue for me (guess I'm not that overweight?), but I guess I'd prefer to have the person just be matter-of-fact and either help me find a solution or just move on to the next activity, whichever is appropriate.
* Clothes shopping. Well, I generally don't like to go shopping with other people (didn't when I was skinny either), but again, I don't really see the big deal. Don't be a jerk about it if they want to go to a plus-size store?
I don't know, just treat it like one of many aspect of your friend's life. See how they talk about it and take your cues from that.
posted by lunasol at 10:44 AM on July 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
*Fat jokes on TV are annoying for me, but it would be even more annoying for a friend to look at me awkwardly or something. I guess I don't really take them personally.
*I don't care if skinny people complain about their weight - life has taught me that body image has very little to do with outward appearance. I felt a lot less attractive when I was a "normal" sized teenager, for instance.
* Yeah, invite me to do stuff. If I don't think I'm in good enough shape, I won't go, but I'd rather get to decide that for myself.
*Restrictions have never been an issue for me (guess I'm not that overweight?), but I guess I'd prefer to have the person just be matter-of-fact and either help me find a solution or just move on to the next activity, whichever is appropriate.
* Clothes shopping. Well, I generally don't like to go shopping with other people (didn't when I was skinny either), but again, I don't really see the big deal. Don't be a jerk about it if they want to go to a plus-size store?
I don't know, just treat it like one of many aspect of your friend's life. See how they talk about it and take your cues from that.
posted by lunasol at 10:44 AM on July 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
I once weighed close to 300 pounds (I'm 5'5" and female). I don't weigh that much anymore, but I still tip the scales at 190. Not morbidly obese anymore, but far from fit. I have myriad health issues that keep me from obtaining my "goal" weight. Anyway, I could give a rat's ass what other people think because I know why I'm big.
I think that the more "aware" people act about other people's weight then the more awkward the situation becomes. Treat overweight people like any other person and things will work out fine. If someone is ultra super sensitive about their weight then that's on them... not you. I treated my obesity like I treat my asthma and other physical ailments, something to work around until it's not a problem anymore.
For example, if a friend invites me a Hare & Hounds running outing (it's happened), I'll reply, "This body doesn't run, but if you're up for geocaching, I'm all there" and that's the end of that. I'm not embarrassed, they shouldn't be embarrassed. I know my limits but they don't - until I tell them. Right?
posted by patheral at 10:48 AM on July 27, 2010
I think that the more "aware" people act about other people's weight then the more awkward the situation becomes. Treat overweight people like any other person and things will work out fine. If someone is ultra super sensitive about their weight then that's on them... not you. I treated my obesity like I treat my asthma and other physical ailments, something to work around until it's not a problem anymore.
For example, if a friend invites me a Hare & Hounds running outing (it's happened), I'll reply, "This body doesn't run, but if you're up for geocaching, I'm all there" and that's the end of that. I'm not embarrassed, they shouldn't be embarrassed. I know my limits but they don't - until I tell them. Right?
posted by patheral at 10:48 AM on July 27, 2010
I think that sizest comments or jokes, like sexist or racist comments or jokes, should be unacceptable for everyone, not just the group they target. Shutting down fat jokes like you would other offensive jokes is a good way to support your friends and also just be a good person.
Aside from that, your obese friends should probably be treated like everyone else. They've been dealing with the world at their weight for a while, and should get the right of refusal for activities. Get a booth when you go to restaurants, if that option is available; stop or redirect bodysnark no matter what the size of the person talking (because it's boring and toxic and a predictable cry for attention), but otherwise trust that your friends know what they can and cannot do.
Disclaimer: I am not obese, but I do think about this stuff a lot.
posted by verbyournouns at 10:48 AM on July 27, 2010 [7 favorites]
Aside from that, your obese friends should probably be treated like everyone else. They've been dealing with the world at their weight for a while, and should get the right of refusal for activities. Get a booth when you go to restaurants, if that option is available; stop or redirect bodysnark no matter what the size of the person talking (because it's boring and toxic and a predictable cry for attention), but otherwise trust that your friends know what they can and cannot do.
Disclaimer: I am not obese, but I do think about this stuff a lot.
posted by verbyournouns at 10:48 AM on July 27, 2010 [7 favorites]
I'm very fat, and I have some friends I talk openly and honestly about weight with, and others I don't. As far as physical accommodations, if your friend/loved one is fat enough to encounter restrictions, s/he is probably very aware of what those might be and can navigate appropriately. For example, I try to make sure I'm the first to arrive at a restaurant if I'm going with a group, so I can scope out the seating. Be especially cautious with outdoor seating - those popular resin chairs can't support a very big person, nor can lawn chairs or other temporary furniture. I also don't mind asking a restaurant for a chair without arms, or to bring an indoor chair outside, but that gets less comfortable in a big group. If everyone arrives at the same time, see if the biggest person takes any kind of lead in requesting a certain kind of seating, and follow it.
Theatre seats can be a challenge, but I've found that at the theatre in my town, expensive seats are bigger than cheap seats. When a friend was getting a big group together to see "Rent" and suggested the cheap seats, I declined. When it was just the two of us and I could explain that it was good seats or I'd have to pass, we got the good seats.
Re: physical limitations - again, most fat people are aware of their limitations and will accept or deny invitations accordingly. Don't need other people making that decision for them.
Re: jokes - I agree that if they're good jokes, I don't mind them. As a superfat comic, Ralphie May has some great fat jokes. If they're lazy and cliched and rely on untrue stereotypes, I'm not amused. (But that's not limited to fat jokes, really.)
Re: (thin) people complaining about their size and diet talk - I generally ignore it. But one thing I won't do is the typical girlie, "oh, you're not fat!" If someone self-identifies as fat, I welcome them with big jiggly arms. I may reframe the conversation as being about fitness or eating healthfully instead of being about weight, but that's rarely what it's actually about. I also don't participate in labeling foods as "bad" or assign any moral value to eating. Therefore, I've trained my closer friends pretty well. When I was less into size acceptance, it was uncomfortable. So avoid it if you can.
Re: shopping IRL. I'm not a fan. Never have been (but have always been fat, so that may contribute.) It's not an activity I participate in with my friends.
posted by ferociouskitty at 10:53 AM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Theatre seats can be a challenge, but I've found that at the theatre in my town, expensive seats are bigger than cheap seats. When a friend was getting a big group together to see "Rent" and suggested the cheap seats, I declined. When it was just the two of us and I could explain that it was good seats or I'd have to pass, we got the good seats.
Re: physical limitations - again, most fat people are aware of their limitations and will accept or deny invitations accordingly. Don't need other people making that decision for them.
Re: jokes - I agree that if they're good jokes, I don't mind them. As a superfat comic, Ralphie May has some great fat jokes. If they're lazy and cliched and rely on untrue stereotypes, I'm not amused. (But that's not limited to fat jokes, really.)
Re: (thin) people complaining about their size and diet talk - I generally ignore it. But one thing I won't do is the typical girlie, "oh, you're not fat!" If someone self-identifies as fat, I welcome them with big jiggly arms. I may reframe the conversation as being about fitness or eating healthfully instead of being about weight, but that's rarely what it's actually about. I also don't participate in labeling foods as "bad" or assign any moral value to eating. Therefore, I've trained my closer friends pretty well. When I was less into size acceptance, it was uncomfortable. So avoid it if you can.
Re: shopping IRL. I'm not a fan. Never have been (but have always been fat, so that may contribute.) It's not an activity I participate in with my friends.
posted by ferociouskitty at 10:53 AM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Forgot to include this link called The Care and Loving of a SuperSized Friend. It also talks about the dreaded "rude comments from strangers." That's something I still have a hard time with and if a friend hears one I'd prefer she act as though she didn't.
posted by ferociouskitty at 10:55 AM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by ferociouskitty at 10:55 AM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is a great question! I'm fat and just chiming in to (mostly) agree with others who have posted.
I can take or leave fat jokes, the ones that are cheap and easy annoy me, but the ones with a little bit of creativity and in the same spirit of jokes about any other group of people are fine with me. The especially annoying jokes are the "that fat person must really eat a lot to be so fat!" ones. Not only is it cheap and easy, but it's really not very accurate.
Thin people complaining about their weight bugs me, but not in a "you have nothing to complain about look at me" kind of way, but more because I think we'd be happier as a society if we focused on other things than a number on a scale. I don't diet, what someone weighs is not important to me, the amount of time people spend worrying about it is mind-boggling so it's mostly a boring topic to me and I wish we could talk about something fun instead.
I love to get invitations whenever people I know and love are getting together and I know what I like and what my limitations are so I can self-select whether or not I want to go. Trust me, few fat people are unaware of what they can or can't do physically and tend to avoid awkward situations like that.
Always asking for tables instead of booths when making reservations is a great kindness. There's nothing worse than having to squeeze in and out of a too small booth. There's no way to do it gracefully or nonchalantly.
The most fun I ever have clothes shopping is with people who are honest and upbeat. So I'm fat and there is no piece of clothing in the world that is going to magically hide the fact that I'm fat. The real question is whether or not you think it's possible for your fat friend to look good. If you answer a solid yes, the trick to clothes shopping is to be a second opinion on whether or not something is flattering. "Your ass looks great in that!" or "that hangs weird, what is it doing to your boobs??" are great possible answers to "How does this look?"
I appreciate consideration like I've described above, but someone being overly accommodating or making a big deal out of it makes me uncomfortable. That said, I'm happy to talk about being fat, what I think about our culture's attitude toward fatness, feminism in general, etc. etc. I find that people are straight-forward and curious get a lot further with me than people who just kind of sit there and be uncomfortable. I usually break the ice by talking about it (as the situation comes up) and that often helps. As others have said though, I'm just one person and I'm pretty open. I'm sure other fat people prefer different things, and that is probably going to be the overall answer to your question--different people are different.
posted by Kimberly at 11:05 AM on July 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
I can take or leave fat jokes, the ones that are cheap and easy annoy me, but the ones with a little bit of creativity and in the same spirit of jokes about any other group of people are fine with me. The especially annoying jokes are the "that fat person must really eat a lot to be so fat!" ones. Not only is it cheap and easy, but it's really not very accurate.
Thin people complaining about their weight bugs me, but not in a "you have nothing to complain about look at me" kind of way, but more because I think we'd be happier as a society if we focused on other things than a number on a scale. I don't diet, what someone weighs is not important to me, the amount of time people spend worrying about it is mind-boggling so it's mostly a boring topic to me and I wish we could talk about something fun instead.
I love to get invitations whenever people I know and love are getting together and I know what I like and what my limitations are so I can self-select whether or not I want to go. Trust me, few fat people are unaware of what they can or can't do physically and tend to avoid awkward situations like that.
Always asking for tables instead of booths when making reservations is a great kindness. There's nothing worse than having to squeeze in and out of a too small booth. There's no way to do it gracefully or nonchalantly.
The most fun I ever have clothes shopping is with people who are honest and upbeat. So I'm fat and there is no piece of clothing in the world that is going to magically hide the fact that I'm fat. The real question is whether or not you think it's possible for your fat friend to look good. If you answer a solid yes, the trick to clothes shopping is to be a second opinion on whether or not something is flattering. "Your ass looks great in that!" or "that hangs weird, what is it doing to your boobs??" are great possible answers to "How does this look?"
I appreciate consideration like I've described above, but someone being overly accommodating or making a big deal out of it makes me uncomfortable. That said, I'm happy to talk about being fat, what I think about our culture's attitude toward fatness, feminism in general, etc. etc. I find that people are straight-forward and curious get a lot further with me than people who just kind of sit there and be uncomfortable. I usually break the ice by talking about it (as the situation comes up) and that often helps. As others have said though, I'm just one person and I'm pretty open. I'm sure other fat people prefer different things, and that is probably going to be the overall answer to your question--different people are different.
posted by Kimberly at 11:05 AM on July 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
A lot of great comments in this thread, and I'll just add my two cents: as an overweight woman, I have problems when people make assumptions about me. For example, they assume that because I'm fat, they shouldn't offer me a slice of the cake they've made - I guess they assume that I'm on a diet and can't stand the tempation. Or they assume that I won't want to go hiking, so they don't invite me. Or they assume that a fat joke will make me uncomfortable, so they act embarrassed when they hear one and I'm in the room.
I prefer to just be treated like anyone else. If I'm watching what I eat, I'll turn down the cake offer, and if I can't handle the hike, I won't go. I wouldn't say I'm "offended" when people make assumptions like these, but they definitely serve to remind me that I'm different from them, and that they think I need to be treated differently. As lunasol said, I'd like to be treated the way anyone else would.
posted by smilingtiger at 11:20 AM on July 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
I prefer to just be treated like anyone else. If I'm watching what I eat, I'll turn down the cake offer, and if I can't handle the hike, I won't go. I wouldn't say I'm "offended" when people make assumptions like these, but they definitely serve to remind me that I'm different from them, and that they think I need to be treated differently. As lunasol said, I'd like to be treated the way anyone else would.
posted by smilingtiger at 11:20 AM on July 27, 2010 [3 favorites]
Shutting down fat jokes like you would other offensive jokes is a good way to support your friends and also just be a good person.
If I'm the only fat person in a group, someone else shutting down fat jokes sometimes registers to me as the fat person here is incapable of standing up for herself when, well, that's not true. This is one situation where knowing the personality in question is key.
Get a booth when you go to restaurants, if that option is available
Did you mean table? I really hope you meant table. Booths are the worst.
People aren't talking much about shopping, so I'll chime in. I don't mind shopping with non-obese people at non-obese stores as long as I'm not getting the hairy eyeball from clerks. I need accessories and can comment on your choices, like anyone else does. Reciprocal behavior at my stores is greatly appreciated.
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:20 AM on July 27, 2010
If I'm the only fat person in a group, someone else shutting down fat jokes sometimes registers to me as the fat person here is incapable of standing up for herself when, well, that's not true. This is one situation where knowing the personality in question is key.
Get a booth when you go to restaurants, if that option is available
Did you mean table? I really hope you meant table. Booths are the worst.
People aren't talking much about shopping, so I'll chime in. I don't mind shopping with non-obese people at non-obese stores as long as I'm not getting the hairy eyeball from clerks. I need accessories and can comment on your choices, like anyone else does. Reciprocal behavior at my stores is greatly appreciated.
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:20 AM on July 27, 2010
I'm fat. We can get that out of the way right now. I'm also the first to acknowledge I'm fat - and if you're not fat, and you try to say "I'm so fat" around me, I'm going to look at you, say "so?" and roll my eyes. Because 1) I don't define myself by my fat, so I'm not going to support you doing it to yourself and 2) I doubt you're as fat as I am, and my reaction to my own fat is "so", and thus ...
My gut reaction to your question is to ask how you would deal with these questions if you replaced fat or overweight with [ethnic group] or [gender] or [sexual orientation]. Yeah, people will argue that fat isn't the same, but when you're trying to decide how to deal with a fat person - because we are OMG so different! - be as thoughtful as you would be in any of the other cases, and you'll be in good shape.
I know my limits, I know what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not. Don't try to decide for me. If you think there's a pertinent bit of information that might help me decide about an activity, based on knowing ME, not just knowing that I'm fat, then please include it. I love to shop for clothes, for example, and if we go to the mall, I'm going to drag you into the fat girl shops and sections, too. I know how to accommodate myself in restaurants and on airplanes, what kind of hike I'd like to do (none, I'm not a hiker), and what to do about fat jokes or comments (see the "so" reference above). If you want me to participate in something with you, just ask. Even if I say no, it might not be because I'm fat, but because I don't want to participate. I'm a big girl, pun intended, but being excluded from something because someone thinks I'm "too fat" is the one of the most hurtful thing about BEING fat that I can think of.
Also, unless you're married to or in an intimate relationship with me, please don't try to have the "fat is unhealthy" conversation with me. First, it's none of your business and second, we're going to have a BIG argument. I'm a grown-ass woman, in charge of my own body, health, and life, and if I want to talk to you about any of that, I will. Otherwise, MYOB and offer me some carrots or some ice cream, whatever you're having.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 11:21 AM on July 27, 2010 [7 favorites]
My gut reaction to your question is to ask how you would deal with these questions if you replaced fat or overweight with [ethnic group] or [gender] or [sexual orientation]. Yeah, people will argue that fat isn't the same, but when you're trying to decide how to deal with a fat person - because we are OMG so different! - be as thoughtful as you would be in any of the other cases, and you'll be in good shape.
I know my limits, I know what I'm comfortable with and what I'm not. Don't try to decide for me. If you think there's a pertinent bit of information that might help me decide about an activity, based on knowing ME, not just knowing that I'm fat, then please include it. I love to shop for clothes, for example, and if we go to the mall, I'm going to drag you into the fat girl shops and sections, too. I know how to accommodate myself in restaurants and on airplanes, what kind of hike I'd like to do (none, I'm not a hiker), and what to do about fat jokes or comments (see the "so" reference above). If you want me to participate in something with you, just ask. Even if I say no, it might not be because I'm fat, but because I don't want to participate. I'm a big girl, pun intended, but being excluded from something because someone thinks I'm "too fat" is the one of the most hurtful thing about BEING fat that I can think of.
Also, unless you're married to or in an intimate relationship with me, please don't try to have the "fat is unhealthy" conversation with me. First, it's none of your business and second, we're going to have a BIG argument. I'm a grown-ass woman, in charge of my own body, health, and life, and if I want to talk to you about any of that, I will. Otherwise, MYOB and offer me some carrots or some ice cream, whatever you're having.
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 11:21 AM on July 27, 2010 [7 favorites]
I think that sizest comments or jokes, like sexist or racist comments or jokes, should be unacceptable for everyone, not just the group they target. Shutting down fat jokes like you would other offensive jokes is a good way to support your friends and also just be a good person.
Hear, hear!! I'm not particularly svelte, apparently, since I've had people make a "fat joke" to our little conversational group in social situations and then turn to me and say "no offense." It seems that avoir dupois is the last bastion of acceptable unabashed derogatory jokes not only on TV and in films but in the office, in casual cocktail party conversation and when being handcuffed during a traffic stop. Racist jokes/comments are taboo, as are homophobic remarks. But there appears to be no legal penalty for the supermarket checker who snarkily asks "Do you really need that?" when she scans a large sheet cake.
posted by Oriole Adams at 11:42 AM on July 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
Hear, hear!! I'm not particularly svelte, apparently, since I've had people make a "fat joke" to our little conversational group in social situations and then turn to me and say "no offense." It seems that avoir dupois is the last bastion of acceptable unabashed derogatory jokes not only on TV and in films but in the office, in casual cocktail party conversation and when being handcuffed during a traffic stop. Racist jokes/comments are taboo, as are homophobic remarks. But there appears to be no legal penalty for the supermarket checker who snarkily asks "Do you really need that?" when she scans a large sheet cake.
posted by Oriole Adams at 11:42 AM on July 27, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm not huge, but I think fat's a pretty fair descriptor for me (6'2", 285lbs). I'm not at all sensitive about it; it doesn't bother me. I can think of very few instances where I'd be bashful about being seen shirtless (excepting weddings, funerals, jury duty, etc. :P). All that said, my perspective might not really be helpful as it sounds like it might be something that bothers your friend. But just in case:
I've had a few awkward conversations with my close straight friends about what it means to be a bear and how I kinda-sorta identify as one, and now it's just a running joke, which is fine with me. Being able to laugh at yourself is important, and I'm not of the opinion that locking a subject away as something Never To Be Talked does anyone any favors. Fat jokes don't bother me personally; laughing at someone else's misery does, but that's not rocket science. I would imagine the subject of fat jokes would highly depend on your friend's personality.
I'm painting with a broad stroke, but I would imagine your friend is A) Aware that she/he is fat, B) Willing to acknowledge the she/he is fat as a matter of course, C) Would rather it not be a constant topic of conversation, and D) Would rather not be pandered to. My size doesn't bother me, but being condescended to does. I'll admit I'd feel hurt if one of my athletic friends didn't invite me to an activity strictly because of my weight. As others have mentioned, I think you extending the offer without making any overtures or cushioning it would give your friend a chance to consider it and (if they decide it's not something they can or want to do) to turn it down graciously while maintaining some dignity.
My size doesn't really prevent me from doing much as far as shopping and seating goes, so I don't have anything from personal experience to add in that regard. Sometimes I'll gaze longingly at a nice shirt in a nice store when there's no way in hell that it comes in a 2X, but that's my burden to bear. What does your friend like to do for fun? Maybe try participating in something you know that they enjoy in addition to asking them to come along for what you like.
Good on you for considering your friends' feeling, by the way! I would imagine that the fact that your friend's got someone who enjoys their company and wants to work with them to have a good time is a huge confidence builder in and of itself.
posted by kryptondog at 12:12 PM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've had a few awkward conversations with my close straight friends about what it means to be a bear and how I kinda-sorta identify as one, and now it's just a running joke, which is fine with me. Being able to laugh at yourself is important, and I'm not of the opinion that locking a subject away as something Never To Be Talked does anyone any favors. Fat jokes don't bother me personally; laughing at someone else's misery does, but that's not rocket science. I would imagine the subject of fat jokes would highly depend on your friend's personality.
I'm painting with a broad stroke, but I would imagine your friend is A) Aware that she/he is fat, B) Willing to acknowledge the she/he is fat as a matter of course, C) Would rather it not be a constant topic of conversation, and D) Would rather not be pandered to. My size doesn't bother me, but being condescended to does. I'll admit I'd feel hurt if one of my athletic friends didn't invite me to an activity strictly because of my weight. As others have mentioned, I think you extending the offer without making any overtures or cushioning it would give your friend a chance to consider it and (if they decide it's not something they can or want to do) to turn it down graciously while maintaining some dignity.
My size doesn't really prevent me from doing much as far as shopping and seating goes, so I don't have anything from personal experience to add in that regard. Sometimes I'll gaze longingly at a nice shirt in a nice store when there's no way in hell that it comes in a 2X, but that's my burden to bear. What does your friend like to do for fun? Maybe try participating in something you know that they enjoy in addition to asking them to come along for what you like.
Good on you for considering your friends' feeling, by the way! I would imagine that the fact that your friend's got someone who enjoys their company and wants to work with them to have a good time is a huge confidence builder in and of itself.
posted by kryptondog at 12:12 PM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Some people don't like the word obese. As you've seen in this thread, some prefer the term "fat". Although this word has negative connotations for many, it is at its core a purely descriptive word, like tall, hairy, young, etc. Obese carries a specific medical definition that some find problematic.
There are good books and resources on this issue. Check out Marlyn Wann, Glenn Gaesser, Sondra Solovay, and the Fat Studies Reader.
posted by serazin at 12:14 PM on July 27, 2010
There are good books and resources on this issue. Check out Marlyn Wann, Glenn Gaesser, Sondra Solovay, and the Fat Studies Reader.
posted by serazin at 12:14 PM on July 27, 2010
Gnomeloaf: I accidentally transposed "booth" and "table." Looks like lots of other folks in the threat did not, so hopefully the point got across regardless.
"If I'm the only fat person in a group, someone else shutting down fat jokes sometimes registers to me as the fat person here is incapable of standing up for herself when, well, that's not true. This is one situation where knowing the personality in question is key."
Knowing personalities is always key, but I really do think that having a blanket policy of shutting down unfunny jokes based off of mocking other people is a good one. If it's really a blanket policy, not just a "my obese friend is around so I'd better pointedly step in, making them feel awkward," then I think people will start to understand that making those jokes is unwelcome regardless of the size of the company. The important thing is consistency, not just making a token effort to "save" somebody if they're around.
posted by verbyournouns at 12:24 PM on July 27, 2010
"If I'm the only fat person in a group, someone else shutting down fat jokes sometimes registers to me as the fat person here is incapable of standing up for herself when, well, that's not true. This is one situation where knowing the personality in question is key."
Knowing personalities is always key, but I really do think that having a blanket policy of shutting down unfunny jokes based off of mocking other people is a good one. If it's really a blanket policy, not just a "my obese friend is around so I'd better pointedly step in, making them feel awkward," then I think people will start to understand that making those jokes is unwelcome regardless of the size of the company. The important thing is consistency, not just making a token effort to "save" somebody if they're around.
posted by verbyournouns at 12:24 PM on July 27, 2010
Hi! I'm about 80 pounds over my ideal weight. I'm also capable of (and quite enjoy) hiking up to about 6 miles over moderate-to-rugged terrain, or 10 or more miles over easy terrain. I would be offended to learn I had not been invited on such a hike because people assumed I wouldn't be able to manage it. I would be not at all offended or embarrassed to be invited on, say, a 15-mile day hike over rugged terrain, and to decline because I know it's beyond my abilities. Let me decide for myself whether I'm capable of it or not; don't assume that you know whether I am. (If you're planning on setting a particularly quick pace, you might mention that also when you invite me, and that may factor into my decision, but still let me decide for myself whether I can do it or not.)
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:27 PM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 12:27 PM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm about 120lbs lighter than I was ~4 years ago. When I was obese I did appreciate invitations to activities, especially when I knew the invitation meant my friends would have to work at a significantly reduced pace to accommodate me. Actually it was a standing offer to play indoor soccer (as goalie initially, I put that net-blocking width to good use!) that kicked off the sustained weight loss and lifestyle change.
Now I have viciously herniated discs in my back (idiopathic fwiw). Ironically I'm probably less able-bodied in some ways than I was. I turn down jogging, and pickup soccer games pretty regularly now and feel more guilty than I did when I was obese. I guess there's less of an element of choice in my back injury than there was in my obesity. (It is clear to me now that my obesity was only a matter of lifestyle choices, I realize that others may face additional obstacles)
I don't think there is a universal rule.
I try to set the tone with my own behaviour. I usually claim, in jest, that I'm allowed to make fat jokes since I used to be. Sometimes that means I cross the line with an insensitive remark. At times like that I back off, offer a sincere apology and move on. I have thick skin when it comes to fat jokes but I also have 20+ years of experience of being mocked so I know how it can sting.
I am probably more conscious of my body/self-image now than I was before. Extra skin irks me more than extra fat ever did. I notice that friends who knew me when I was obese sort of wait for my reaction when fat jokes arise whereas friends who have only known me thin don't seem to pay it any mind.
I don't like when people "handle" anything for me. For example, if I complain to my dining partner that my burger is overcooked and they call a server over and complain on my behalf. I don't like that sort of intervention, and it feels even more patronizing when it's something like a fat joke.
posted by KevCed at 12:59 PM on July 27, 2010
Now I have viciously herniated discs in my back (idiopathic fwiw). Ironically I'm probably less able-bodied in some ways than I was. I turn down jogging, and pickup soccer games pretty regularly now and feel more guilty than I did when I was obese. I guess there's less of an element of choice in my back injury than there was in my obesity. (It is clear to me now that my obesity was only a matter of lifestyle choices, I realize that others may face additional obstacles)
I don't think there is a universal rule.
I try to set the tone with my own behaviour. I usually claim, in jest, that I'm allowed to make fat jokes since I used to be. Sometimes that means I cross the line with an insensitive remark. At times like that I back off, offer a sincere apology and move on. I have thick skin when it comes to fat jokes but I also have 20+ years of experience of being mocked so I know how it can sting.
I am probably more conscious of my body/self-image now than I was before. Extra skin irks me more than extra fat ever did. I notice that friends who knew me when I was obese sort of wait for my reaction when fat jokes arise whereas friends who have only known me thin don't seem to pay it any mind.
I don't like when people "handle" anything for me. For example, if I complain to my dining partner that my burger is overcooked and they call a server over and complain on my behalf. I don't like that sort of intervention, and it feels even more patronizing when it's something like a fat joke.
posted by KevCed at 12:59 PM on July 27, 2010
I'm not overweight. However, at one time I had a close friend who was morbidly obese. I never thought about some of the things had to to think about - such as will a seat belt fit or where to find a place to buy clothes after he forgot to pack a couple of things on a trip.
What I learned from this, is not to question or bug the person. For instance, he drove a long distance to see me once and so I insisted on driving after that. He told me he didn't mind driving, but I felt bad that he had driven such a long way. Later, I found out that the real reason he didn't want me to drive was because he was worried the seatbelt in my car wouldn't fit him.
Another time, my friends and I invited him horseback riding. He turned us down. I felt slightly bad that he didn't want to come with us. Later, I learned that he thought he was too big for horseback riding.
In the end, my advice is to invite your larger friends along, but if they turn you down, don't bug them to come with and don't assume that just because they are turning you down means that they dislike you.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:37 PM on July 27, 2010
What I learned from this, is not to question or bug the person. For instance, he drove a long distance to see me once and so I insisted on driving after that. He told me he didn't mind driving, but I felt bad that he had driven such a long way. Later, I found out that the real reason he didn't want me to drive was because he was worried the seatbelt in my car wouldn't fit him.
Another time, my friends and I invited him horseback riding. He turned us down. I felt slightly bad that he didn't want to come with us. Later, I learned that he thought he was too big for horseback riding.
In the end, my advice is to invite your larger friends along, but if they turn you down, don't bug them to come with and don't assume that just because they are turning you down means that they dislike you.
posted by parakeetdog at 1:37 PM on July 27, 2010
What DevilsAdvocate said. I weigh 260ish, 5'4", and walk 5k races for fun. The only person who has successfully made me feel bad about my weight was a dance teacher who didn't want me (100 pounds and 15 years ago) in her school uniform. All the skinny girls and their moms took my side, and I'm not 15 anymore. Make your invitations and let your friend decide.
I consider fat jokes more crass than religion jokes but less than ethnic jokes; I think I would feel the same way if I was 120 pounds instead.
posted by SMPA at 2:31 PM on July 27, 2010
I consider fat jokes more crass than religion jokes but less than ethnic jokes; I think I would feel the same way if I was 120 pounds instead.
posted by SMPA at 2:31 PM on July 27, 2010
What's important to me is that people not make assumptions about me because of my weight (5'4", about 220ish). I'm actually in better shape than people think I am and I'm always interested in doing outdoorsy things. What keeps me from many athletic activities isn't my weight, but the fact that I'm a klutz and have really lousy depth perception. I'm also slowly recovering from a sports injury--that's why I have pain after a long walk, not the weight!
In some ways, having an obese friend is like having a friend with a disability--don't make assumptions about what they can and can't do and if you want to know something, ask!
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 2:34 PM on July 27, 2010
In some ways, having an obese friend is like having a friend with a disability--don't make assumptions about what they can and can't do and if you want to know something, ask!
posted by WorkingMyWayHome at 2:34 PM on July 27, 2010
I had a gastric bypass. I now weigh 130 lbs, very normal for my height and age. When I was obese (255 lbs) I preferred that people just treat me like they would any of their other friends. If you are going on a hike, invite your fat friends. I would not have considered that impolite. As for other activities, don't leave the fat person out. It is very hurtful.
As for fat jokes, treat them like you would jokes about any condition. If they are funny, laugh. If they are offensive, comment on that. Your fat friend may have a different take on jokes. I made fat jokes when I was fat. Sometimes being fat is funny.
As for thin people complaining, it never bothered me.
Shopping is fine. Fat people like to shop. Even if they cannot find garments that fit, there are always accessories. And like everyone, fat people like to be with people while they shop, it is fun to socialize and look at pretty things.
One thing you can do is not bug your fat friends about what they eat, how much they exercise, or their weight. Believe me fat folks do this enough to themselves, they don't need the rest of the world doing it to them too. Be kind, being fat is not a moral failing.
posted by fifilaru at 4:28 PM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
As for fat jokes, treat them like you would jokes about any condition. If they are funny, laugh. If they are offensive, comment on that. Your fat friend may have a different take on jokes. I made fat jokes when I was fat. Sometimes being fat is funny.
As for thin people complaining, it never bothered me.
Shopping is fine. Fat people like to shop. Even if they cannot find garments that fit, there are always accessories. And like everyone, fat people like to be with people while they shop, it is fun to socialize and look at pretty things.
One thing you can do is not bug your fat friends about what they eat, how much they exercise, or their weight. Believe me fat folks do this enough to themselves, they don't need the rest of the world doing it to them too. Be kind, being fat is not a moral failing.
posted by fifilaru at 4:28 PM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
Added thought: as some others have pointed out, I don't like the word "obese" or the phrase "morbidly obese". Those are clinical medical terms with specific criteria, and unless you are my physician and *know* that I fit those criteria, please don't diagnose me. Also, to me, they come across as somehow very judgmental and critical.
Just call me fat. I much prefer to hear "my fat friend" than "my morbidly obese friend" though, of course, I'd rather you just called me "friend".
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 5:24 PM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
Just call me fat. I much prefer to hear "my fat friend" than "my morbidly obese friend" though, of course, I'd rather you just called me "friend".
posted by Lulu's Pink Converse at 5:24 PM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
First off, I appreciate you're asking the question but keep in mind that your thinner friends might not be able to go for a bike ride due to severe asthma or go to your favorite restaurant because of restrictive allergies... i.e. the assumption that a fat friend is more "limited" in what they can do might be faulty. Chances are they'll let you know if they have any limitations, just as a friend with allergies or asthma would let you know.
posted by Wuggie Norple at 7:12 PM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Wuggie Norple at 7:12 PM on July 27, 2010 [2 favorites]
One thing you can do is not bug your fat friends about what they eat, how much they exercise, or their weight. Believe me fat folks do this enough to themselves, they don't need the rest of the world doing it to them too.
This is the most important thing anyone has said in this thread in regards to relationships with fat people.
It's like telling a smoker that cigarettes are dangerous. They know, they are probably doing their best to fight their problem and already beating themselves up about it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:00 PM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
This is the most important thing anyone has said in this thread in regards to relationships with fat people.
It's like telling a smoker that cigarettes are dangerous. They know, they are probably doing their best to fight their problem and already beating themselves up about it.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 10:00 PM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by grizzled at 10:31 AM on July 27, 2010 [1 favorite]