Guide to Being Persistent With Women
June 3, 2010 4:40 AM Subscribe
DatingFilter: How to be creatively persistent, as a guy, without coming across obsessive?
I don't think the story here is too important. I like a girl, we went out and had a really great date but she got weird when I mentioned calling for a 2nd date so it didn't happen... but then Friend Requested me a week later. Been out with her again but not as a date, and we text once in a while.
*I* feel like my intentions are somewhat obvious. But things remain in a strange limbo. So my question:
## what are the do's and do nots of keeping at it? I don't know what her hold up is, but I want it to be known that I'm not giving up yet.
## What is the trick to being persistent?
_________________________________________
For the record, I realize many of you are thinking "She's not responding, move on." I'm well practiced in that, but every once in a while, you find somebody who's worth putting more effort into trying. :)
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I don't think the story here is too important. I like a girl, we went out and had a really great date but she got weird when I mentioned calling for a 2nd date so it didn't happen... but then Friend Requested me a week later. Been out with her again but not as a date, and we text once in a while.
*I* feel like my intentions are somewhat obvious. But things remain in a strange limbo. So my question:
## what are the do's and do nots of keeping at it? I don't know what her hold up is, but I want it to be known that I'm not giving up yet.
## What is the trick to being persistent?
_________________________________________
For the record, I realize many of you are thinking "She's not responding, move on." I'm well practiced in that, but every once in a while, you find somebody who's worth putting more effort into trying. :)
.
I think that pop culture gives us a skewed sense of how dating really works. Like, doing something wacky will finally win her heart and she'll realize that she wants to date me after all. No dice in my books.
In my opinion, persistence doesn't really have much of a place. You went out with her once. All you can do now is ask her out again. If she says yes, fantastic. If she says no, it's over. I can't see how being persistent about it can win you any points. If someone doesn't want to go on a date, repeatedly asking them won't work.
posted by fso at 4:54 AM on June 3, 2010 [21 favorites]
In my opinion, persistence doesn't really have much of a place. You went out with her once. All you can do now is ask her out again. If she says yes, fantastic. If she says no, it's over. I can't see how being persistent about it can win you any points. If someone doesn't want to go on a date, repeatedly asking them won't work.
posted by fso at 4:54 AM on June 3, 2010 [21 favorites]
N'thing ask her out on a second date (an obvious one like dinner). Right now you are feeling rejected; the worst that can happen is that she does turn you down, best thing, she accepts. She may have reacted badly to your original suggestion for reasons that had nothing to do with you.
posted by saucysault at 4:56 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by saucysault at 4:56 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
she got weird when I mentioned calling for a 2nd date so it didn't happen... but then Friend Requested me a week later.
Friend request. Not relationship request, or interested request. Friend request.
What is the trick to being persistent?
Persistent is desperate with a different coat of paint. Ask her on a second date and if she says no, move on. There's no way to pester her into dating you. If you want more, ask her on a second date.
If she still doesn't show any interest, respect her choice and don't be the guy who doesn't understand that no is no.
posted by Hiker at 5:10 AM on June 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
Friend request. Not relationship request, or interested request. Friend request.
What is the trick to being persistent?
Persistent is desperate with a different coat of paint. Ask her on a second date and if she says no, move on. There's no way to pester her into dating you. If you want more, ask her on a second date.
If she still doesn't show any interest, respect her choice and don't be the guy who doesn't understand that no is no.
posted by Hiker at 5:10 AM on June 3, 2010 [6 favorites]
## what are the do's and do nots of keeping at it? I don't know what her hold up is, but I want it to be known that I'm not giving up yet.
You are allowed to specifically ask for a second date, making sure to mention the word "date". It does not count if you don't mention the word date, or if you decide she's getting weird about the idea or some such. Open your mouth and ask for a second date.
If she says yes, enjoy. If she says no, you should probably drop it, 'cause based on your comment about "her holdup", you could quickly get into the annoying jerk category. If you're still determined, then I'd suggest being upfront and....oh fuck it, I honestly don't know. It's one thing to seduce someone who's into you, it's another to chase after someone who clearly isn't interested and has specifically said they aren't interested. There's billions of women on the planet, I honestly don't know why anyone would want to try and convince someone who isn't into them.
Life is short, go find some who smiles at the thought of lying exhausted in bed with you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:31 AM on June 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
You are allowed to specifically ask for a second date, making sure to mention the word "date". It does not count if you don't mention the word date, or if you decide she's getting weird about the idea or some such. Open your mouth and ask for a second date.
If she says yes, enjoy. If she says no, you should probably drop it, 'cause based on your comment about "her holdup", you could quickly get into the annoying jerk category. If you're still determined, then I'd suggest being upfront and....oh fuck it, I honestly don't know. It's one thing to seduce someone who's into you, it's another to chase after someone who clearly isn't interested and has specifically said they aren't interested. There's billions of women on the planet, I honestly don't know why anyone would want to try and convince someone who isn't into them.
Life is short, go find some who smiles at the thought of lying exhausted in bed with you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:31 AM on June 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
I don't know, I'm one of those girls that normally goes kicking and screaming into a relationship. As I think back to my last three LTR's (including my husband), I had no interest in dating any of them, and they all just kept at me. Seriously, they wouldn't give up. I don't know if I ever said the words "stop, I don't like you", but I definitely put out the vibe of "go away".
I think that there is a place for persistence. If you really feel that this girl is something special, keep up the attempts. Be direct and confident. Tell her you like her and want to date her.
One caveat here, I guess. All three of these guys essentially won me over by constantly making me laugh, they seriously wore me down through laughter. There was never any kind of bad feeling or threatening stalker-ish vibe to this at all. If she comes right out and says she has no interest in dating you, then it's game over. Until she says that, though, I say pursue, pursue, pursue.
posted by newpotato at 5:38 AM on June 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
I think that there is a place for persistence. If you really feel that this girl is something special, keep up the attempts. Be direct and confident. Tell her you like her and want to date her.
One caveat here, I guess. All three of these guys essentially won me over by constantly making me laugh, they seriously wore me down through laughter. There was never any kind of bad feeling or threatening stalker-ish vibe to this at all. If she comes right out and says she has no interest in dating you, then it's game over. Until she says that, though, I say pursue, pursue, pursue.
posted by newpotato at 5:38 AM on June 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
OP, if you're over the age of 25, not a dude bro, and want to get laid ever again by someone who is happy and whole, please consider ignoring every last bit of advice from doublehappy.
posted by availablelight at 5:51 AM on June 3, 2010 [51 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 5:51 AM on June 3, 2010 [51 favorites]
BTW, none of these guys had the traits described in the comment just above mine, if any of them had mocked me or stood me up, they would be given no further consideration. There are plenty of guys out there who aren't rude and inconsiderate.
posted by newpotato at 5:55 AM on June 3, 2010
posted by newpotato at 5:55 AM on June 3, 2010
OP, if you're over the age of 25, not a dude bro, and want to get laid ever again by someone who is happy and whole, please consider ignoring every last bit of advice from doublehappy.
Seconded - and yes, persistence does work - be smart about it. Be funny not mopey. Be a friend, and that's the win win. Maybe you'll fall out of "love" with her, but you will have gained a great friend.
posted by the noob at 6:08 AM on June 3, 2010
Seconded - and yes, persistence does work - be smart about it. Be funny not mopey. Be a friend, and that's the win win. Maybe you'll fall out of "love" with her, but you will have gained a great friend.
posted by the noob at 6:08 AM on June 3, 2010
Friend request. Not relationship request, or interested request.
Does Facebook have all 3 choices now? Is there also a designator of "with benefits" vs. "without benefits"? I am pretty sure that a Friend Request does not necessarily mean she is not interested.
OP, I don't think you give enough info for internet strangers to make a call. If you get the vibe she is not interested (and it seems you do), then I would start looking for other options. But asking her on a second date is not unreasonable, and definitely is not overly persistent.
posted by I am the Walrus at 6:15 AM on June 3, 2010
Does Facebook have all 3 choices now? Is there also a designator of "with benefits" vs. "without benefits"? I am pretty sure that a Friend Request does not necessarily mean she is not interested.
OP, I don't think you give enough info for internet strangers to make a call. If you get the vibe she is not interested (and it seems you do), then I would start looking for other options. But asking her on a second date is not unreasonable, and definitely is not overly persistent.
posted by I am the Walrus at 6:15 AM on June 3, 2010
doublehappy appears to be trolling, IMO. Definitely don't do any of this.
Be open about the fact that you would like a relationship with her. Don't try to "read" her "signals." Definitely don't become her friend in the hopes that someday you can get into her pants.
Ask her out on a date (and make it clear you mean it as a DATE, not "lets hang out"), if she accepts, great. If she declines, be classy about it and move on.
posted by ®@ at 6:29 AM on June 3, 2010
Be open about the fact that you would like a relationship with her. Don't try to "read" her "signals." Definitely don't become her friend in the hopes that someday you can get into her pants.
Ask her out on a date (and make it clear you mean it as a DATE, not "lets hang out"), if she accepts, great. If she declines, be classy about it and move on.
posted by ®@ at 6:29 AM on June 3, 2010
I wouldn't say that all of doublehappy's advice is awful. In particular, "presenting yourself as nicer, smarter, stronger, funnier, and more supportive than any other guy she meets" seems like decent enough advice.
posted by schmod at 6:35 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by schmod at 6:35 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't say that all of doublehappy's advice is awful. In particular, "presenting yourself as nicer, smarter, stronger, funnier, and more supportive than any other guy she meets" seems like decent enough advice.
I was going to add that caveat, but given that this advice is mashed in between "stalk her", "manipulate her", and "insult her", I figured it sounded more like this than, Be The Best Man You Can Be.
posted by availablelight at 6:40 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I was going to add that caveat, but given that this advice is mashed in between "stalk her", "manipulate her", and "insult her", I figured it sounded more like this than, Be The Best Man You Can Be.
posted by availablelight at 6:40 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't know what her hold up is, but I want it to be known that I'm not giving up yet.
Her "hold up" may be that's she's not interested in continuing to date you. However, if there's any question that she might have misunderstood your intentions, or if you've been hanging out "as friends" and you want to clarify things, ask her out on a second date.
But. If your intentions are clear and her response is still no, then you need to decide if you can handle just being her friend without approaching the friendship as just another way to get her to change her mind about you. You've found someone who's worth "extra effort" and that's great, but if you think so highly of her, you should also respect her. Pursuing someone who has said she isn't interested is disrespectful and obsessive, no way around it: it says, "I don't care about you as a whole person, I care about fitting you into the role I've decided you should play."
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:11 AM on June 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
Her "hold up" may be that's she's not interested in continuing to date you. However, if there's any question that she might have misunderstood your intentions, or if you've been hanging out "as friends" and you want to clarify things, ask her out on a second date.
But. If your intentions are clear and her response is still no, then you need to decide if you can handle just being her friend without approaching the friendship as just another way to get her to change her mind about you. You've found someone who's worth "extra effort" and that's great, but if you think so highly of her, you should also respect her. Pursuing someone who has said she isn't interested is disrespectful and obsessive, no way around it: it says, "I don't care about you as a whole person, I care about fitting you into the role I've decided you should play."
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:11 AM on June 3, 2010 [4 favorites]
Most people on MeFi are nerds. The people I've known who were best at getting women definitely weren't. I'm just saying, this might not be the best place for advice.
posted by smorange at 7:12 AM on June 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by smorange at 7:12 AM on June 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
Maybe I'm not one of the best women (okay, for sure I'm not) - nonetheless I'd like to make the point that nerds and geeks and dwebs have been able to club me over the head and drag me into their caves. I'm sure the non-macho MeFi menfolk have good advice like "be funny" and "be kind" and "ask her out on a real-live date."
Heck, even tolls have good advice - "presenting yourself as nicer, smarter, stronger, funnier, and more supportive than any other guy she meets."
For what it's worth, I am currently all swoony about a man who was persistent for a very long time before the scales fell from my eyes. Even the best of women can be really, really stupid sometimes.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:20 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Heck, even tolls have good advice - "presenting yourself as nicer, smarter, stronger, funnier, and more supportive than any other guy she meets."
For what it's worth, I am currently all swoony about a man who was persistent for a very long time before the scales fell from my eyes. Even the best of women can be really, really stupid sometimes.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 7:20 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
While persistence is the plot point of many romantic movies, in real life it can sometimes feel... scary. For most women, the guy who refuses to take no for an answer is not someone we typically think of as our ideal partner. So your approach will play a critical role in how you choose to move forward with this girl.
I feel like your only option is to ask her out on a real date: dinner, dinner and a movie, whatever. Because that's your goal, right? To date her? So make your intentions known and see what she says. If she doesn't accept your invitation, be gracious and move on! There are other girls who will be happy to spend time with you.
posted by janekate at 7:23 AM on June 3, 2010
I feel like your only option is to ask her out on a real date: dinner, dinner and a movie, whatever. Because that's your goal, right? To date her? So make your intentions known and see what she says. If she doesn't accept your invitation, be gracious and move on! There are other girls who will be happy to spend time with you.
posted by janekate at 7:23 AM on June 3, 2010
Best answer: So the kind of persistence that worked on me (i.e. got me on more dates with a guy I was initially lukewarm about, physically and romantically): come up with awesome activities/adventures to share as dates, not "dinner and a movie" or "concert and a picnic." Hike somewhere really cool, go to a planetarium, explore an abandoned building, check out a velodrome.
posted by availablelight at 7:32 AM on June 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 7:32 AM on June 3, 2010 [5 favorites]
Why spend so much time trying to 'convince' someone to date you when you could be dedicating that time to, oh I don't know, meeting women who actually do want to date you?
I would also like to add that finding someone to date should never be this hard. If you find someone you like, you ask them out. You go on a date. You keep progressing until it doesn't work anymore. When it stops working, you end it and move on. This whole "Keep at it, be persistent" attitude is a waste of time if you ask me. Save that for a dedicated relationship. Putting that much energy into just trying to get a second date is creepy.
Either ask her or don't. This is adulthood.
posted by fso at 7:33 AM on June 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
I would also like to add that finding someone to date should never be this hard. If you find someone you like, you ask them out. You go on a date. You keep progressing until it doesn't work anymore. When it stops working, you end it and move on. This whole "Keep at it, be persistent" attitude is a waste of time if you ask me. Save that for a dedicated relationship. Putting that much energy into just trying to get a second date is creepy.
Either ask her or don't. This is adulthood.
posted by fso at 7:33 AM on June 3, 2010 [2 favorites]
In contrast to those recommending persistance above, I have sometimes had my feelings become stronger and clearer in the moment when a guy inernally said "oh, you're not that into me?" and moved on. Self-respect is attractive. Don't do this intentionally, as a manipulative tactic. But instead, make it a constant practice to seek out situations that feel good and to speak up on your own behalf or leave when it doesn't. You don't want to end up in a relationship where you're still proving she should be/stay with you, and if the precedent you set is "I don't care if you push me away. I'll come back for more," and that's not something she recognizes as an unhealthy way of relating, you risk creating a relationship pattern where she's not all that into you but you hang out all the time anyway.
I don't see you doing this all that much in your question. But some of the comments seem to suggest persistance over a fairly long time span.
posted by salvia at 7:45 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't see you doing this all that much in your question. But some of the comments seem to suggest persistance over a fairly long time span.
posted by salvia at 7:45 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't get the impression that she's interested in dating you. It sounds more like she's interested in an acquaintance type friendship. Maybe she feels bad for turning you down for the second date, so she added you as a friend to be nice (so she doesn't come across as being completely rejecting of you, while at the same time keeping you at arm's length).
You might want to ask her out on a second date, making clear it is a date and not just friends hanging out. If she says "no," then you should stop pursuing her. As a woman, I find it incredibly creepy and intimidating when a man continues to ask me out even though I have made it clear I am not interested. (It's also irritating when I have behaved like we were friends while the guy secretly decides he wants more.) I will not ever become interested when I feel like I am being pursued. Women aren't going to magically fall in love with you because you persist. This type of persistence is almost always creepy.
posted by parakeetdog at 10:21 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
You might want to ask her out on a second date, making clear it is a date and not just friends hanging out. If she says "no," then you should stop pursuing her. As a woman, I find it incredibly creepy and intimidating when a man continues to ask me out even though I have made it clear I am not interested. (It's also irritating when I have behaved like we were friends while the guy secretly decides he wants more.) I will not ever become interested when I feel like I am being pursued. Women aren't going to magically fall in love with you because you persist. This type of persistence is almost always creepy.
posted by parakeetdog at 10:21 AM on June 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Being pursued like this doesn't make me feel like I'm worth more effort, it makes me feel like I'm not being heard.
You're not in some strange limbo - she just doesn't sound interested. Go find somebody who is.
posted by Space Kitty at 10:48 AM on June 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
You're not in some strange limbo - she just doesn't sound interested. Go find somebody who is.
posted by Space Kitty at 10:48 AM on June 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
Ask for a second date and go from there. If she says "no," drop it. Don't just pretend like you've dropped it and continue plotting, actually drop it. I can see from the replies above that persistence works on more folks than I'd think, but I personally would immediately relegate the obnoxious "persistent" person to the realm of "occasional one-line Facebook message" and avoid them entirely in real life.
Just because you happen to really, really like this person does not give you license to be really, really annoying (i.e. anything doublehappy said). It's disrespectful and intrusive, not cute.
As an addendum, I also have a tendency to dwell when someone's losing interest/not interested in me and create all these scenarios in my head where I *make* them like me, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with what you're getting at. I usually put my thoughts down in a journal every day and refuse to let myself text/phone/email/message them when it's obvious they're not interested until the urge passes. This does nothing for forcing them to like me, but it does make me feel a lot better about myself in the long run, and it makes it a lot less awkward to run into these people again in the future.
posted by wending my way at 10:51 AM on June 3, 2010
Just because you happen to really, really like this person does not give you license to be really, really annoying (i.e. anything doublehappy said). It's disrespectful and intrusive, not cute.
As an addendum, I also have a tendency to dwell when someone's losing interest/not interested in me and create all these scenarios in my head where I *make* them like me, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with what you're getting at. I usually put my thoughts down in a journal every day and refuse to let myself text/phone/email/message them when it's obvious they're not interested until the urge passes. This does nothing for forcing them to like me, but it does make me feel a lot better about myself in the long run, and it makes it a lot less awkward to run into these people again in the future.
posted by wending my way at 10:51 AM on June 3, 2010
I once eventually dated a guy after I'd turned him down and we had remained friends for several years. He was super emotionally available during the years of friendship, and I didn't respect/value his interest the way I have with others' because it seemed like he just.never.gave.up and there was nothing I could do wrong, you know? So based on that my advice is to be friendly but not any more available or invested than you would be with a friend you're not really thinking about dating, and to genuinely try to move on.
(Also I'm pretty amused by doublehappy's username.)
posted by ecsh at 2:41 PM on June 3, 2010
(Also I'm pretty amused by doublehappy's username.)
posted by ecsh at 2:41 PM on June 3, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks all for the advice - even the much-ridiculed DoubleHappy, who at least made me laugh several times. I'd like to respond to several comments that stood out to me...
MOST EVERYBODY: Ask for what is clearly a 2nd date and give up if that doesn't work.
... This is obvious and sane advice. In general, people (including girls) respond to thoughtful attention and effort. So while I know simply asking again and moving on makes sense, it doesn't show much effort. I'd prefer to be creative and do something she'll at least remember the next week. That may not be your style, but it's my way of showing that I'm not every other guy asking her out.
DOUBLEHAPPY: present yourself as nicer, smarter, stronger, funnier, and more supportive than any other guy she meets.
.. I already AM all those things! :) Now I just gotta figure out how to spend more time with her to prove it. You mentioned my morality, and I can tell you this is not me just trying to get a kiss.
NEWPOTATO: My last 3 relationships including my husband, I had no interest in dating any of them, and they all just kept at me. ...Make her laugh constantly and pursue, pursue, pursue until she comes right out and says no.
.. Thanks, this was the kind of experience I was hoping to find more of. Care to share more specifics of what "they kept at me" means?
THE NOOB: persistence does work - be smart about it. Be funny not mopey.
.. Thanks and do you have more tips? The whole reason I'm posting here is to find out people's take on being smart about it - what that means.
®@: don't become her friend in the hopes that someday you can get into her pants.
.. Again I'll say that's not my goal here. But yeah, that "friend" role is an awful spot to be in.
LESSER SHREW: I am currently all swoony about a man who was persistent for a very long time before the scales fell from my eyes
.. Perfect! Please share some details of what led up to this point!
AVAILABLELIGHT: come up with awesome activities/adventures to share as dates
.. My favorite answer so far, thank you. Make 'em an offer they can't refuse, right? :) But yeah, this was my point that simply asking her to dinner just doesn't show much effort. Thanks and I'd love to hear more ideas if you have any.
PARAKEETDOG: I will not ever become interested when I feel like I am being pursued.
.. Hah, I love the difference of opinions here. It's an unsolvable debate, because everybody is different. But, I'd like to add that girls like you are the reason guys like DoubleHappy feel like "it's all manipulation." Guys have to pursue you without it looking like pursuit. That's not an attack, I'm just making observances in the thread.
___
She works somewhere with volunteer positions, I've considered volunteering because otherwise there's no reason for us to be around each other unless it's a date or disguised date. My gut is she prefers dates to develop from friendships, so that would give us a pressure-free chance to learn more about each other, right? Or maybe that's definitely merging into the friends lane?
posted by GrubbyUtter at 4:05 PM on June 3, 2010
MOST EVERYBODY: Ask for what is clearly a 2nd date and give up if that doesn't work.
... This is obvious and sane advice. In general, people (including girls) respond to thoughtful attention and effort. So while I know simply asking again and moving on makes sense, it doesn't show much effort. I'd prefer to be creative and do something she'll at least remember the next week. That may not be your style, but it's my way of showing that I'm not every other guy asking her out.
DOUBLEHAPPY: present yourself as nicer, smarter, stronger, funnier, and more supportive than any other guy she meets.
.. I already AM all those things! :) Now I just gotta figure out how to spend more time with her to prove it. You mentioned my morality, and I can tell you this is not me just trying to get a kiss.
NEWPOTATO: My last 3 relationships including my husband, I had no interest in dating any of them, and they all just kept at me. ...Make her laugh constantly and pursue, pursue, pursue until she comes right out and says no.
.. Thanks, this was the kind of experience I was hoping to find more of. Care to share more specifics of what "they kept at me" means?
THE NOOB: persistence does work - be smart about it. Be funny not mopey.
.. Thanks and do you have more tips? The whole reason I'm posting here is to find out people's take on being smart about it - what that means.
®@: don't become her friend in the hopes that someday you can get into her pants.
.. Again I'll say that's not my goal here. But yeah, that "friend" role is an awful spot to be in.
LESSER SHREW: I am currently all swoony about a man who was persistent for a very long time before the scales fell from my eyes
.. Perfect! Please share some details of what led up to this point!
AVAILABLELIGHT: come up with awesome activities/adventures to share as dates
.. My favorite answer so far, thank you. Make 'em an offer they can't refuse, right? :) But yeah, this was my point that simply asking her to dinner just doesn't show much effort. Thanks and I'd love to hear more ideas if you have any.
PARAKEETDOG: I will not ever become interested when I feel like I am being pursued.
.. Hah, I love the difference of opinions here. It's an unsolvable debate, because everybody is different. But, I'd like to add that girls like you are the reason guys like DoubleHappy feel like "it's all manipulation." Guys have to pursue you without it looking like pursuit. That's not an attack, I'm just making observances in the thread.
___
She works somewhere with volunteer positions, I've considered volunteering because otherwise there's no reason for us to be around each other unless it's a date or disguised date. My gut is she prefers dates to develop from friendships, so that would give us a pressure-free chance to learn more about each other, right? Or maybe that's definitely merging into the friends lane?
posted by GrubbyUtter at 4:05 PM on June 3, 2010
Becoming a volunteer at her workplace definitely sounds like the friend lane to me. Also, it kinda looks like groveling. It'd be better to come together as equals instead of with you being a supplicant. Also, she can't decline to hang out with you there -- awkward!
posted by salvia at 5:31 PM on June 3, 2010
posted by salvia at 5:31 PM on June 3, 2010
I disagree that the friend role is a bad deal. I'm a big believer that friendship has to be part of a relationship if the relationship is going to last, so it makes sense to start there too. Granted, it's easier to begin dating under the pretext of "we are on a date," but some of the best things in life take time.
Give her time.
Be a friend.
The key to making friendship a path toward dating is to be an awesome, funny, fun and flirty friend. Don't focus on dating her. Instead, focus on enjoying yourself while you're with her. Have a good time and make sure she has a good time too. Be an awesome friend. And, oh yeah... FLIRT!
Flirting is fun.
posted by 2oh1 at 5:48 PM on June 3, 2010
Give her time.
Be a friend.
The key to making friendship a path toward dating is to be an awesome, funny, fun and flirty friend. Don't focus on dating her. Instead, focus on enjoying yourself while you're with her. Have a good time and make sure she has a good time too. Be an awesome friend. And, oh yeah... FLIRT!
Flirting is fun.
posted by 2oh1 at 5:48 PM on June 3, 2010
There are different kinds of persistence.
BAD KIND #1:
"Wanna go out with me?"
"No."
"How about now?"
"No."
"Now?"
"No."
BAD KIND #2:
Stalking.
GOOD KIND:
Back off. Regroup. Live your own life for a while. Be interesting. Hang out with her in non-dating ways (but don't let it get too friend-ey -- don't start acting like her best friend/brother, and don't do it too often). Don't pretend you're not still interested. But don't pressure her. And don't wait around. Be open to other people. See if she comes around. Try again if it looks like she is. Or if you think something's about you is in the way (that nasty unfinished divorce, that drinking problem) fix that (for yourself, not for her) and then try again.
posted by paultopia at 10:15 PM on June 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
BAD KIND #1:
"Wanna go out with me?"
"No."
"How about now?"
"No."
"Now?"
"No."
BAD KIND #2:
Stalking.
GOOD KIND:
Back off. Regroup. Live your own life for a while. Be interesting. Hang out with her in non-dating ways (but don't let it get too friend-ey -- don't start acting like her best friend/brother, and don't do it too often). Don't pretend you're not still interested. But don't pressure her. And don't wait around. Be open to other people. See if she comes around. Try again if it looks like she is. Or if you think something's about you is in the way (that nasty unfinished divorce, that drinking problem) fix that (for yourself, not for her) and then try again.
posted by paultopia at 10:15 PM on June 3, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm probably the last person who should be giving dating advice, but I would approach the Friend Request situation like this:
"Hey! Thanks for friending me. I thought we had a really good time the other week. Call me if you want to do more of the same!" Then ... move on. The ball's in her court and you've expressed your interest.
I would save the type of being persistent described by some thread comments for those situations where you are more firmly in someone's social circle. It wouldn't be the type of date-me-date-me-date-me stalking persistence, but more of a periodic respectful checking back for interest. Maybe it could lead to a conversation about the WHY, which could potentially be something you can fix a la paultopia, but you shouldn't press for it.
But if this is someone you really like, meaning like like, I would avoid the Friend Zone nicest-funniest-huggiest-pal stuff like the plague. Don't give the milk away for free, as they say. If she wants to be around you, she has to officially date you. Healthier for both of you.
posted by dhartung at 11:26 PM on June 3, 2010
"Hey! Thanks for friending me. I thought we had a really good time the other week. Call me if you want to do more of the same!" Then ... move on. The ball's in her court and you've expressed your interest.
I would save the type of being persistent described by some thread comments for those situations where you are more firmly in someone's social circle. It wouldn't be the type of date-me-date-me-date-me stalking persistence, but more of a periodic respectful checking back for interest. Maybe it could lead to a conversation about the WHY, which could potentially be something you can fix a la paultopia, but you shouldn't press for it.
But if this is someone you really like, meaning like like, I would avoid the Friend Zone nicest-funniest-huggiest-pal stuff like the plague. Don't give the milk away for free, as they say. If she wants to be around you, she has to officially date you. Healthier for both of you.
posted by dhartung at 11:26 PM on June 3, 2010
I completely agree with asking her to go to something really special with you, something that you think/know she will be interested in. Don't phrase it as a date, just something special that you want to take her to because you think she will like it. Doesn't need to be expensive but if it is something that she hasn't done before that will be a motivator for her to go. If you both get along (keep it in the friend zone with no dating pressure) then follow it up with something else that she can't resist! If she doesn't feel magnitised to your personality by then don't persist, but hopefully she will want to spend more time with you and initiate it (maybe not just a friend but not quite dating either - I call it the grey area!).
Be patient and be a great guy and it will either amount to proper full on dating or you will be friends.
Respond to her actions, not her words!
posted by lilyflower at 4:29 AM on June 4, 2010
Be patient and be a great guy and it will either amount to proper full on dating or you will be friends.
Respond to her actions, not her words!
posted by lilyflower at 4:29 AM on June 4, 2010
I'd like to add that girls like you are the reason guys like DoubleHappy feel like "it's all manipulation." Guys have to pursue you without it looking like pursuit.
Well, no. Girls who find it irritating to be pursued are the ones who have no trouble deciding if they're interested in someone, are capable of pursuing their own crushes, and therefore are too busy to deal with guys they've already rejected. Don't blame shitty attitudes about manipulation on girls who know what they want and are direct about it.
And don't assume that girls who enjoy being pursued (or don't notice that they're being pursued until they're already involved) will tolerate being manipulated, either. Wooing and courtship = fun; manipulation = slimy, no matter how pure you think your motives are.
You don't know the girl you're interested in well enough to tell about her attitudes to pursuit yet, so I think it's worth trying again with her one more time before moving on.
IFDSn9's advice is best: think up some fun group events (save your best ideas for later, moderately fun is all you need now), invite people who already think you're awesome, and invite the girl you're interested in. Let her judge you by the company you keep. I've used this tactic myself, and many times been part of a group on my best behaviour so that a friend can impress a potential flame.
Then ask her out on a second date, something that is also cool and interesting and definitely just the two of you. What counts as interesting depends on the resources near you. If you lived where I live, I'd suggest windsurfing on the river; an indie play or art-show (not at some major gallery, somewhere you have to have an adventure to find); a micro-brewery tour; seeing a documentary at an indie cinema (she does volunteer work, maybe something related to that) instead of the usual rom-com or action flick at the multiplex. Check your local events magazine or website, or failing that, a tourist guide, to get ideas.
If she says no to the group event, you haven't got a chance. If she says yes to the group event but no to the date, stay friendly without becoming a close friend or getting in the friend zone, and move on with your life. Anything more than that is either a lack of respect towards yourself or towards her.
posted by harriet vane at 3:52 AM on June 5, 2010
Well, no. Girls who find it irritating to be pursued are the ones who have no trouble deciding if they're interested in someone, are capable of pursuing their own crushes, and therefore are too busy to deal with guys they've already rejected. Don't blame shitty attitudes about manipulation on girls who know what they want and are direct about it.
And don't assume that girls who enjoy being pursued (or don't notice that they're being pursued until they're already involved) will tolerate being manipulated, either. Wooing and courtship = fun; manipulation = slimy, no matter how pure you think your motives are.
You don't know the girl you're interested in well enough to tell about her attitudes to pursuit yet, so I think it's worth trying again with her one more time before moving on.
IFDSn9's advice is best: think up some fun group events (save your best ideas for later, moderately fun is all you need now), invite people who already think you're awesome, and invite the girl you're interested in. Let her judge you by the company you keep. I've used this tactic myself, and many times been part of a group on my best behaviour so that a friend can impress a potential flame.
Then ask her out on a second date, something that is also cool and interesting and definitely just the two of you. What counts as interesting depends on the resources near you. If you lived where I live, I'd suggest windsurfing on the river; an indie play or art-show (not at some major gallery, somewhere you have to have an adventure to find); a micro-brewery tour; seeing a documentary at an indie cinema (she does volunteer work, maybe something related to that) instead of the usual rom-com or action flick at the multiplex. Check your local events magazine or website, or failing that, a tourist guide, to get ideas.
If she says no to the group event, you haven't got a chance. If she says yes to the group event but no to the date, stay friendly without becoming a close friend or getting in the friend zone, and move on with your life. Anything more than that is either a lack of respect towards yourself or towards her.
posted by harriet vane at 3:52 AM on June 5, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by litnerd at 4:46 AM on June 3, 2010 [2 favorites]