Starfleet-Fu
May 25, 2010 8:19 PM Subscribe
What's with the awkward two-fisted punching in Star Trek?
My wife and I are watching the entire series of Star Trek TNG, and as in the original series, they're using this absurd, two-fisted "hammer" punch that's slow, telegraphs across the continent, and isn't plausibly more powerful than a proper one handed punch. Its origin is in the fight choreography of the original series, according to this, but that doesn't really explain why it got started in the first place.
Is this a real move that some martial arts have? Is it more effective or useful than it appears to be? Was this a more common fight move during the sixties on TV, when TOS was on, so it wasn't considered unique then? Is continuing it in TNG (and DS9, and Voyager...) an ironic homage, or did Rick Berman pronounce it canon, along with reversing the polarity to save the ship?
My wife and I are watching the entire series of Star Trek TNG, and as in the original series, they're using this absurd, two-fisted "hammer" punch that's slow, telegraphs across the continent, and isn't plausibly more powerful than a proper one handed punch. Its origin is in the fight choreography of the original series, according to this, but that doesn't really explain why it got started in the first place.
Is this a real move that some martial arts have? Is it more effective or useful than it appears to be? Was this a more common fight move during the sixties on TV, when TOS was on, so it wasn't considered unique then? Is continuing it in TNG (and DS9, and Voyager...) an ironic homage, or did Rick Berman pronounce it canon, along with reversing the polarity to save the ship?
I could have sworn that the 1960s Batman also used the two-fist hammer punch. But after reviewing a half dozen different campy Batman fights on YouTube, I failed to find an example. The closest was a couple of times where Batman punches forward with two fists simultaneously but separately in order to hit two bad guys at once.
posted by mhum at 8:40 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by mhum at 8:40 PM on May 25, 2010
Best answer: Interesting question. I googled around and found countless critiques of the "bad" fighting on TOS, particularly the one with the Gorn ("Arena"), but couldn't turn up anything concrete. I did find this intriguing rebuttal, The Close Combat of Star Trek, which makes the plausible points that many of the men working in Hollywood had military experience (Roddenberry did, and was also a cop), and the fight sequences are actually accurately modeled on classic Army-taught hand-to-hand combat. I couldn't find any fight choreographers credited on TOS, though.
posted by dhartung at 10:07 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by dhartung at 10:07 PM on May 25, 2010
Response by poster: I have trouble taking your second link seriously when it's written by a guy selling a learn-martial-arts-by-video course over the Internet. It's the same site that puts ads all over reading "WARNING: Do Not Watch This Free Presentation if You Have Moral, Ethical Or Religious Reasons Forcing You To Cower Helplessly While Someone Attacks You, Your Wife Or Your Kids...", and says in his essay 'As time marched on, and the world became "sissified"...'. He actually cites Arena as a fight scene worth emulating.
It's a good point, though, that a lot of WWII veterans were probably responsible for fight choreography in the 60s, so there was a certain amount of real-world experience in play, though likely modified by the needs of the camera. In the Arena fight, Kirk actually does one useful move, which is simultaneously slapping both of the Gorn's ears.
posted by fatbird at 10:36 PM on May 25, 2010
It's a good point, though, that a lot of WWII veterans were probably responsible for fight choreography in the 60s, so there was a certain amount of real-world experience in play, though likely modified by the needs of the camera. In the Arena fight, Kirk actually does one useful move, which is simultaneously slapping both of the Gorn's ears.
posted by fatbird at 10:36 PM on May 25, 2010
This wiki article about Kirk-fu talks about the hammer blow, saying it comes from Tae Kwon Do. I'm not finding any evidence for that on the web, but that doesn't mean it isn't true. I agree, though, it seems extremely impractical, unless you're presently handcuffed.
posted by knave at 11:26 PM on May 25, 2010
posted by knave at 11:26 PM on May 25, 2010
In the Arena fight, Kirk actually does one useful move, which is simultaneously slapping both of the Gorn's ears.
Be careful with that one.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:23 AM on May 26, 2010
Be careful with that one.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 12:23 AM on May 26, 2010
knave: the hammer blow, saying it comes from Tae Kwon Do.
I'm certainly no master, but I've learned a bit of TKD and never learned or saw anything close to that. Maybe a reinforced elbow strike, but a two-fisted punch? Seems like a good way to break two hands' worth of fingers while leaving yourself wide open to a counter strike.
posted by mkultra at 7:24 AM on May 26, 2010
I'm certainly no master, but I've learned a bit of TKD and never learned or saw anything close to that. Maybe a reinforced elbow strike, but a two-fisted punch? Seems like a good way to break two hands' worth of fingers while leaving yourself wide open to a counter strike.
posted by mkultra at 7:24 AM on May 26, 2010
Response by poster: Yeah, I studied TKD for three years, and never saw anything like that, so I think that's a WAG on the Kirk-fu article.
posted by fatbird at 8:28 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by fatbird at 8:28 AM on May 26, 2010
Best answer: Blakes 7 a UK sf tv series that had similar odd combat sequences that also often featured a weird double-fisted hammer punch (that thinking now might have been a nod to Star Trek). Anyway I remember reading something along the lines that this choreography was to make the fights look spectacular and interesting on one hand but also make them not too violent and imitable by kids.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:15 AM on May 26, 2010
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:15 AM on May 26, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Babblesort at 8:36 PM on May 25, 2010