Tie a yellow ribbon around the old Draccy?
April 13, 2010 7:00 PM Subscribe
[Bow-tie Filter]: Bow-tie virgin in mid-thirties would like to start sporting the look in a business casual work environment. Advice needed!
I have never worn a bow-tie in my life, though have often been in a conservative business environment. In the past few years, my workplace has mellowed, and its much more business casual. I've noticed a few retro looks coming back, such as suspenders and I'd really like to start wearing bow-ties. I know nothing about them though.
Do you need special shirts to wear with them? Long or short sleeves? Does the pattern on patterned fabric rule apply to them?
I've checked the internet and searched previous askmefis, and haven't found a huge store of resources. I'd really love your advice!
I have never worn a bow-tie in my life, though have often been in a conservative business environment. In the past few years, my workplace has mellowed, and its much more business casual. I've noticed a few retro looks coming back, such as suspenders and I'd really like to start wearing bow-ties. I know nothing about them though.
Do you need special shirts to wear with them? Long or short sleeves? Does the pattern on patterned fabric rule apply to them?
I've checked the internet and searched previous askmefis, and haven't found a huge store of resources. I'd really love your advice!
Not to hurt your feelings, but I can't look at someone wearing a bow tie and not think that they look like a dufus. It's kind of an affectation, and doesn't come off as genuine, but someone who is going for a "look".
Also, don't ever wear a tie with a short sleeved shirt. Doesn't matter what style of tie.
Maybe you could experiment with the look in your personal life first, at least, if you still want to after reading my awful response :(
posted by wwartorff at 7:25 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also, don't ever wear a tie with a short sleeved shirt. Doesn't matter what style of tie.
Maybe you could experiment with the look in your personal life first, at least, if you still want to after reading my awful response :(
posted by wwartorff at 7:25 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Unless you're a lawyer, architect or doctor in the south, you're going to look a little ridiculous in a bow tie. Probably even then.
That said, if you're cool with everybody in the office thinking of you as "that guy who wears the bow ties," I don't think the "rules" for wearing them for business are drastically different from a four-in-hand. Which is to say, short sleeve shirts are an absolute no-go with any kind of tie. While pattern-on-pattern is more of a rule of thumb than an absolute rule, I'd probably err a little bit more on the conservative side there than with a regular tie, since you're already doing the self-consciously eccentric thing by wearing a bow tie at all. You don't need a special kind of shirt, though I would avoid pairing it with a spread collar.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 7:26 PM on April 13, 2010
That said, if you're cool with everybody in the office thinking of you as "that guy who wears the bow ties," I don't think the "rules" for wearing them for business are drastically different from a four-in-hand. Which is to say, short sleeve shirts are an absolute no-go with any kind of tie. While pattern-on-pattern is more of a rule of thumb than an absolute rule, I'd probably err a little bit more on the conservative side there than with a regular tie, since you're already doing the self-consciously eccentric thing by wearing a bow tie at all. You don't need a special kind of shirt, though I would avoid pairing it with a spread collar.
posted by strangely stunted trees at 7:26 PM on April 13, 2010
This thread gives some advice. I think anyone with a slightly goofy quality can pull off the bowtie - it's about confidence, like anything else. Matt Smith can pull it off, so can you.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 7:37 PM on April 13, 2010
posted by Solon and Thanks at 7:37 PM on April 13, 2010
bow ties are fab. rock that if you must. i have a thing for men in bow ties. it takes a certain kind of confidence to pull off a bow tie. IMHO, i like a patterned tie (nothing too cartoony, like penguins wearing santa hats or snoopy...) with a striped oxford shirt, the more unconventionally colored but traditionally patterned/styled the better. the preppy rake look. keep in mind that this is purely from a woman's point of view....
posted by lakersfan1222 at 7:46 PM on April 13, 2010
posted by lakersfan1222 at 7:46 PM on April 13, 2010
large stripes - bow tie
small trad oxford stripes - shirt
good combo
posted by lakersfan1222 at 7:52 PM on April 13, 2010
small trad oxford stripes - shirt
good combo
posted by lakersfan1222 at 7:52 PM on April 13, 2010
It's your life: you can wear a bow tie just for the hell of it. It's not like you're wondering whether to wear swimming trunks to work.
That being said, I think it might seem a little odd. The non-ancient men I know who wear bow ties are mostly Southern and grew up wearing bow ties, and even they only really do so for festive occasions (horse races, Christmas parties, summer events where you'd see seersucker, etc), as though the bow tie adds a little extra pizzaz. So I think in a business casual environment it could be out of place, depending on how spiffily your coworkers dress.
The other problem is you (probably) don't want to become the bow tie guy--like the hat guy, who always wears a fedora because he thinks it makes him look smooth--and the chances of that are high if all the sudden you start wearing a bow tie to work every single day.
Why not branch out more generally: get a bow tie, get a couple knit ties, get a pair of suspenders, maybe pick out some corduroy pants to sub in for the khakis, bright colored socks that peep out when you sit down, etc. So many people don't have fun choosing what to wear, and I think that's a shame. Do whatever you can to make your day a little brighter.
posted by sallybrown at 8:00 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
That being said, I think it might seem a little odd. The non-ancient men I know who wear bow ties are mostly Southern and grew up wearing bow ties, and even they only really do so for festive occasions (horse races, Christmas parties, summer events where you'd see seersucker, etc), as though the bow tie adds a little extra pizzaz. So I think in a business casual environment it could be out of place, depending on how spiffily your coworkers dress.
The other problem is you (probably) don't want to become the bow tie guy--like the hat guy, who always wears a fedora because he thinks it makes him look smooth--and the chances of that are high if all the sudden you start wearing a bow tie to work every single day.
Why not branch out more generally: get a bow tie, get a couple knit ties, get a pair of suspenders, maybe pick out some corduroy pants to sub in for the khakis, bright colored socks that peep out when you sit down, etc. So many people don't have fun choosing what to wear, and I think that's a shame. Do whatever you can to make your day a little brighter.
posted by sallybrown at 8:00 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
if you're going to wear a bow tie, the rest of your outfit needs to be snappy and fit you very well or you'll look like a) a dork or b) like you're in costume costume. for instance: if you wear pleated pants at all ever, STOP AND DO NOT PASS GO and do not wear bow tie until you throw them all out.
posted by lia at 8:14 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by lia at 8:14 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think this is a good idea. I've never seen someone in a non-tux bow tie that I didn't think was a total ass. But if you are really in love with the idea, my recommendation would be to start by wearing one on special occasions. The office party, maybe someone's birthday--something where it can be joked about lightly, where you can seem like you're not taking yourself too seriously.
But a better idea would probably be to put down the bow tie and walk away.
posted by HotToddy at 8:16 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
But a better idea would probably be to put down the bow tie and walk away.
posted by HotToddy at 8:16 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
lia's right. What's the rest of your wardrobe like?
- JCrew kinda preppy, kinda bourgie, kinda rugged
- Banana Republic, kinda preppy, kinda dressy, borderline savvy architect
- Gap, khakis, white button-up, maybe a plaid button-up
- super-prepster
- Zara/H&M, kinda Euro, kinda retro, kinda hipster
- vintage/bohemian/hipster
Because seriously, I live in the South, and even here, men wearing bowties without the style to pull it off just look like complete and total dufuses. And not in a good way. You have to be a bit ironic and snappy to pull it off well.
Sure, it's your life and your wardrobe and a bowtie isn't exactly evil. But it might not do what you want it to do.
posted by barnone at 8:19 PM on April 13, 2010
- JCrew kinda preppy, kinda bourgie, kinda rugged
- Banana Republic, kinda preppy, kinda dressy, borderline savvy architect
- Gap, khakis, white button-up, maybe a plaid button-up
- super-prepster
- Zara/H&M, kinda Euro, kinda retro, kinda hipster
- vintage/bohemian/hipster
Because seriously, I live in the South, and even here, men wearing bowties without the style to pull it off just look like complete and total dufuses. And not in a good way. You have to be a bit ironic and snappy to pull it off well.
Sure, it's your life and your wardrobe and a bowtie isn't exactly evil. But it might not do what you want it to do.
posted by barnone at 8:19 PM on April 13, 2010
The new Doctor Who wears a bow tie. I'm not sure I could pull it off myself, but I think it can potentially look good on some people.
That said, I can't think of anyone I've seen recently just wearing a bow tie as a tie, so I'm not sure exactly how you would go about doing it and making it work.
posted by damonism at 8:25 PM on April 13, 2010
That said, I can't think of anyone I've seen recently just wearing a bow tie as a tie, so I'm not sure exactly how you would go about doing it and making it work.
posted by damonism at 8:25 PM on April 13, 2010
A few examples of bow ties that look alright. Why bow ties aren't just for schmucks.
posted by barnone at 8:34 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by barnone at 8:34 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Aside from the "don't do it" comments, I think that the advice you are getting here is pretty good. Some collars look better than others with bow ties, but the standard button-down collar is fine. I would go with plain colored shirts until you are sure you are comfortable with the look.
I don't think that an occasional bow tie should be that big a deal, though you will certainly get comments. If you wear them all the time, it will seem kind of like a gimmick. I agree that you need to look sharp otherwise, and never with short sleeves, and probably never with jeans. I can't really picture that working out for anyone. Absolutely no clip-on/strap-on ties. It's not that much harder than tying your shoes, so get one or two real ties and go from there.
posted by bevedog at 8:47 PM on April 13, 2010
I don't think that an occasional bow tie should be that big a deal, though you will certainly get comments. If you wear them all the time, it will seem kind of like a gimmick. I agree that you need to look sharp otherwise, and never with short sleeves, and probably never with jeans. I can't really picture that working out for anyone. Absolutely no clip-on/strap-on ties. It's not that much harder than tying your shoes, so get one or two real ties and go from there.
posted by bevedog at 8:47 PM on April 13, 2010
Don't listen to the haters! Bow ties on people younger than 65 can be incredibly attractive. Never do the clip-on type, only hand-tied will do, and treat them less like a tie and more like a scarf or a hat. By this I mean, ties can often be the only bit of color in an outfit, the only spot of personality, so they often can be much riskier in pattern, color, textile, and so-on. But a bow tie is already a statement, so stick to something more cohesive with the rest of your clothes.
You don't want to be wearing a monochromatic grey outfit with a colorful bow tie. You want to be wearing a bow tie that could live alongside the rest of your clothes. If, for example, everything you're wearing is grey, you could go black, charcoal, light grey, a very subdued color tone, or if the greys are warm, even an ivory bow tie, perhaps with a tone on tone pattern or interesting texture to the fabric.
You know how you generally choose to wear black or brown belts and shoes with an outfit? Use that rule to help you choose a bow tie for more colorful clothing combinations. Green shirt, brown jacket, tweed pants? You'd wear brown shoes and a brown belt with that, so stick to a warm-colored bowtie (reds, oranges, yellows, browns). Navy pinstripe suit with a crisp white shirt? Black shoes, so a cool-colored bowtie (blues greens purples blacks).
It seems like, the more wildly colored or statement-y your bow tie is, the more formal and "important" the occasion is. So you have people in bright purple bow ties for prom, people in candycane striped bow ties for a Christmas party, but people in brown small paisley, or silver tonal stripes for doing taxes or seeing a play. See the difference? Otherwise, you're That Guy Who Wears Bow Ties. And if you want to be that guy, go for it! But don't say I didn't warn you.
posted by Mizu at 8:58 PM on April 13, 2010
You don't want to be wearing a monochromatic grey outfit with a colorful bow tie. You want to be wearing a bow tie that could live alongside the rest of your clothes. If, for example, everything you're wearing is grey, you could go black, charcoal, light grey, a very subdued color tone, or if the greys are warm, even an ivory bow tie, perhaps with a tone on tone pattern or interesting texture to the fabric.
You know how you generally choose to wear black or brown belts and shoes with an outfit? Use that rule to help you choose a bow tie for more colorful clothing combinations. Green shirt, brown jacket, tweed pants? You'd wear brown shoes and a brown belt with that, so stick to a warm-colored bowtie (reds, oranges, yellows, browns). Navy pinstripe suit with a crisp white shirt? Black shoes, so a cool-colored bowtie (blues greens purples blacks).
It seems like, the more wildly colored or statement-y your bow tie is, the more formal and "important" the occasion is. So you have people in bright purple bow ties for prom, people in candycane striped bow ties for a Christmas party, but people in brown small paisley, or silver tonal stripes for doing taxes or seeing a play. See the difference? Otherwise, you're That Guy Who Wears Bow Ties. And if you want to be that guy, go for it! But don't say I didn't warn you.
posted by Mizu at 8:58 PM on April 13, 2010
Wear with the right handkerchief, if at all possible. Not identical, but something that balances it. Solid colors are nice, but use a fine pattern if you must break away from the solid colors. You'll need a thin face to pull it off, if you do decide to go for the consciously awkward college professor look. If you go so far as to wear a blazer with elbow patches, people will think ... well, any number of things, but they won't be all that positive.
posted by adipocere at 9:01 PM on April 13, 2010
posted by adipocere at 9:01 PM on April 13, 2010
I say go for it.
Just don't do what my friend did the first time he wore one. He brought an extra tie just in case. After the first couple sideways looks, he switched. At that point he became the pansy who couldn't pull off a bow tie.
Wear it well.
posted by The Potate at 9:06 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Just don't do what my friend did the first time he wore one. He brought an extra tie just in case. After the first couple sideways looks, he switched. At that point he became the pansy who couldn't pull off a bow tie.
Wear it well.
posted by The Potate at 9:06 PM on April 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
Bow ties, much like suspenders, are kinda hot, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Definitely no short sleeves (I hope you are not wearing your regular ties with short sleeves either though).
posted by naoko at 9:12 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by naoko at 9:12 PM on April 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
My favorite bow-tie look: bow-tie with white buttondown shirt, sleeves rolled up to the elbows, nice jeans and a belt with an interesting (but not huge) belt buckle.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:25 PM on April 13, 2010
posted by ocherdraco at 9:25 PM on April 13, 2010
Nthing the "don't do it" chorus. There are only really a few instances where a bowtie could be even remotely considered appropriate for anyone under the age of 80. Even then caution should be exercised. Those instances are:
1) It's required, like if you've got to wear a tux to a formal event. Like a really fancy funeral.
2) The bowtie is airbrushed onto a t-shirt, and you're a teenager in 1974. At the carnival.
3) You're a clown.
4) You're Orville Redenbacher.
5) You're Tucker Carlson. Oh wait, I covered that in #3.
posted by motown missile at 12:13 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
1) It's required, like if you've got to wear a tux to a formal event. Like a really fancy funeral.
2) The bowtie is airbrushed onto a t-shirt, and you're a teenager in 1974. At the carnival.
3) You're a clown.
4) You're Orville Redenbacher.
5) You're Tucker Carlson. Oh wait, I covered that in #3.
posted by motown missile at 12:13 AM on April 14, 2010 [1 favorite]
Just reiterating the Doctor Who reference. My boyfriend loves bowties as a sort of occasional, indie-preppy, nod, but put them all away immediately when he saw the first new episode.
I think it depends on your social circle, but at the moment I would absolutely think someone who had just started to wear a bow tie (or braces, or Harris tweed) was just imitating a TV character!
posted by citands at 1:54 AM on April 14, 2010
I think it depends on your social circle, but at the moment I would absolutely think someone who had just started to wear a bow tie (or braces, or Harris tweed) was just imitating a TV character!
posted by citands at 1:54 AM on April 14, 2010
A couple of observations.
First, I agree that the bow tie is the official uniform of the Dork Patrol. It smacks of affectation and really isn't particularly becoming in and of itself. But, then again, I wear a hat with a brim (sort of a Trilby situation), and people probably think I look ridiculous, so FUCK THEM.
Which brings me to my second point--if you can't look up and down the near unanimous chorus of posters in this thread telling you this choice is a bad one, and still say FUCK THEM and bust out your bow ties, you don't have the balls to be a mini fashion trend setter. If you do, that's great. If you don't, that's cool too. But it's definitely a gut check moment. Are you prepared to look like a total dork to nearly everyone so you can look cool to yourself? Again, there's no wrong answer here--the world needs more people who don't care what others think, but at the same time, the world also needs fewer bow ties.
So, my recommendation here is that if you want to do this bow tie experiment, wear nothing but bow ties at work for a month. It will lose its amusement factor to others, and maybe the novelty to you, but it will establish them as part of your repertoire, and you won't look like a sartorial dilettante. Who knows--maybe you are the vanguard of a new bow tie resurgence.
Probably not. But good luck anyway!
posted by Admiral Haddock at 3:59 AM on April 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
First, I agree that the bow tie is the official uniform of the Dork Patrol. It smacks of affectation and really isn't particularly becoming in and of itself. But, then again, I wear a hat with a brim (sort of a Trilby situation), and people probably think I look ridiculous, so FUCK THEM.
Which brings me to my second point--if you can't look up and down the near unanimous chorus of posters in this thread telling you this choice is a bad one, and still say FUCK THEM and bust out your bow ties, you don't have the balls to be a mini fashion trend setter. If you do, that's great. If you don't, that's cool too. But it's definitely a gut check moment. Are you prepared to look like a total dork to nearly everyone so you can look cool to yourself? Again, there's no wrong answer here--the world needs more people who don't care what others think, but at the same time, the world also needs fewer bow ties.
So, my recommendation here is that if you want to do this bow tie experiment, wear nothing but bow ties at work for a month. It will lose its amusement factor to others, and maybe the novelty to you, but it will establish them as part of your repertoire, and you won't look like a sartorial dilettante. Who knows--maybe you are the vanguard of a new bow tie resurgence.
Probably not. But good luck anyway!
posted by Admiral Haddock at 3:59 AM on April 14, 2010 [3 favorites]
DO IT.
It will garner a lot of attention -- and abjectly stupid comments -- but it can make you feel like the best-dressed guy in the room. (women always seem to approve. *shrug*) If you only, do it once, though, you'll be giving in to the critics, so be willing to do it more than once. I like to wear a tie to my .edu IT job every couple of weeks, and I throw in a bow tie (e.g., the one that was my grandpa's) every few times.
Hand-tied only: clip-on bowties are only for waiters and erotic dancers.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:32 AM on April 14, 2010
It will garner a lot of attention -- and abjectly stupid comments -- but it can make you feel like the best-dressed guy in the room. (women always seem to approve. *shrug*) If you only, do it once, though, you'll be giving in to the critics, so be willing to do it more than once. I like to wear a tie to my .edu IT job every couple of weeks, and I throw in a bow tie (e.g., the one that was my grandpa's) every few times.
Hand-tied only: clip-on bowties are only for waiters and erotic dancers.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:32 AM on April 14, 2010
What is 'business casual'? I work in a casual office, and I know here bow ties would look very strange indeed. But then, so would ties of any kind.
posted by mippy at 8:27 AM on April 14, 2010
posted by mippy at 8:27 AM on April 14, 2010
What Admiral Haddock and wenestvedt said - being able to pull off a bow tie or other once-common-but-now-anachronistic garment (like the oft-maligned fedora) is about 90% confidence and 10% fashion sense, pure and simple. You're a grown-up. It's not junior high. Who cares what people think? You'll only look like a dork if you wear it with an "I am wearing because I kind of like it, but everyone probably thinks I'm a dork" attitude. And yes, hand-tied is also crucial to pulling off the bow tie look. Pre-tied bowties look awful, and are probably largely responsible for the OMGDORK reaction the merest mention of bow ties seems to trigger nowadays. This is the video I learned from: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJv4Qh7zR3E
I've been wearing bow ties for about two years now, mostly to lodge (Masons dress up for meetings in Massachusetts), and while I'm sure there are some people who think I'm a tool for wearing a bow tie and occasional matching pocket square, the general reaction I get is quite favorable. People are often fascinated. ("where do you get bow ties?" "You actually tied that yourself?")
So yeah, if you've got the self-confidence to put up with the stupid Pee Wee Herman & Orville Redenbacher comments for the first week or so (people will stop when they fail to get a rise out of you) then absolutely go for it.
posted by usonian at 10:29 AM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
I've been wearing bow ties for about two years now, mostly to lodge (Masons dress up for meetings in Massachusetts), and while I'm sure there are some people who think I'm a tool for wearing a bow tie and occasional matching pocket square, the general reaction I get is quite favorable. People are often fascinated. ("where do you get bow ties?" "You actually tied that yourself?")
So yeah, if you've got the self-confidence to put up with the stupid Pee Wee Herman & Orville Redenbacher comments for the first week or so (people will stop when they fail to get a rise out of you) then absolutely go for it.
posted by usonian at 10:29 AM on April 14, 2010 [2 favorites]
Oh, and speaking of where to get bow ties, they're easily found online - Beau Ties Ltd makes lovely ties, although some of them get absurdly expensive. There are a few people making them on Etsy as well. I see you're in Worcester - it might be a little bit of a hike, but Shack's in Fitchburg carries a few, and is a neat old-school clothing store to visit.
The last time I was at a Men's Wearhouse, they actually had a couple as well... that was at the Holyoke Mass. store, for what it's worth.
posted by usonian at 10:43 AM on April 14, 2010
The last time I was at a Men's Wearhouse, they actually had a couple as well... that was at the Holyoke Mass. store, for what it's worth.
posted by usonian at 10:43 AM on April 14, 2010
I assume you saw this post from the blue. Lots of tips in the comments.
Let me know how it goes. I have been debating trying a bow tie for awhile (since the FPP I linked), so I would be interested to see how a newbie does.
posted by I am the Walrus at 12:45 PM on April 14, 2010
Let me know how it goes. I have been debating trying a bow tie for awhile (since the FPP I linked), so I would be interested to see how a newbie does.
posted by I am the Walrus at 12:45 PM on April 14, 2010
Here's a suggestion, assuming the OP is straight. Figure out how many women favorited the "doofus" comments above.
There's your answer.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:39 AM on April 15, 2010
There's your answer.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:39 AM on April 15, 2010
Best answer: On the other hand, figure out how many thousands of AskMe readers didn't even bother to click through to your question, indicating that they have no strong opinion one way or the other.
Allow me to overthink this plate of beans a little bit further! I'm trying not to stray too far off topic, but I think this is relevant as far as attitude & confidence in re breaking with societal norms, which I guess includes the wearing of bow ties:
As I reflect on all this bow tie vitriol, I guess I should admit that I am probably the last person who should be giving workplace fashion advice. I spent the first 11 years of my school career with my self-esteem in the toilet because I was constantly told I was a nerd/loser/etc. My family happened to move as I went into 11th grade, and I used that clean break to own my doofusness. I didn't go out of my way to be more of a nerd... I just stopped trying (and consequently failing) to fit in. I discovered that it drives social busybodies crazy when you do that. Totally liberating.
As to the aesthetics of bow ties specifically, well... some of the people, some of the time & all that. I still maintain that it's mostly about confidence; clearly, this thread indicates that if you wear a bow tie, some people will think you look like a doofus and there's nothing you can do about it. If the thought of this truly doesn't bother you, you're golden.
posted by usonian at 7:30 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
Allow me to overthink this plate of beans a little bit further! I'm trying not to stray too far off topic, but I think this is relevant as far as attitude & confidence in re breaking with societal norms, which I guess includes the wearing of bow ties:
As I reflect on all this bow tie vitriol, I guess I should admit that I am probably the last person who should be giving workplace fashion advice. I spent the first 11 years of my school career with my self-esteem in the toilet because I was constantly told I was a nerd/loser/etc. My family happened to move as I went into 11th grade, and I used that clean break to own my doofusness. I didn't go out of my way to be more of a nerd... I just stopped trying (and consequently failing) to fit in. I discovered that it drives social busybodies crazy when you do that. Totally liberating.
As to the aesthetics of bow ties specifically, well... some of the people, some of the time & all that. I still maintain that it's mostly about confidence; clearly, this thread indicates that if you wear a bow tie, some people will think you look like a doofus and there's nothing you can do about it. If the thought of this truly doesn't bother you, you're golden.
posted by usonian at 7:30 AM on April 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by middleclasstool at 7:20 PM on April 13, 2010