Most Skilled band?
April 10, 2010 9:54 AM
What are some bands where every member has an incredible amount of technical prowess?
There are a lot of bands that have an incredible guitarist, or incredible singer, but it seems to me that in most of them, the rest of the band exists just to provide a backing track for that one person. I want to find bands where no single member sticks out, because every member is absolutely incredible at what they do.
There are a lot of bands that have an incredible guitarist, or incredible singer, but it seems to me that in most of them, the rest of the band exists just to provide a backing track for that one person. I want to find bands where no single member sticks out, because every member is absolutely incredible at what they do.
The Who.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:58 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 9:58 AM on April 10, 2010
Are old bands ok? Because Cream are basically the definition of every member having technical prowess.
posted by Coobeastie at 9:58 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by Coobeastie at 9:58 AM on April 10, 2010
dream theater
posted by freddymetz at 10:05 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by freddymetz at 10:05 AM on April 10, 2010
Van Halen. Well David Lee Roth isn't like the greatest technical singer ever, but if you count being a showman, he counts. The rest are all especially talented at their instruments and are cited on best guitarist/bassist/drummer lists all the time.
And yeah, I know that's a weird answer. I might be back with more later.
posted by ishotjr at 10:06 AM on April 10, 2010
And yeah, I know that's a weird answer. I might be back with more later.
posted by ishotjr at 10:06 AM on April 10, 2010
The Hellacopters - around the Grande Rock - High Visibility era.
Baroness - Their most recent record (Blue Record) is insane.
Anything from Canada's Do Make Say Think.
posted by punkrockrat at 10:06 AM on April 10, 2010
Baroness - Their most recent record (Blue Record) is insane.
Anything from Canada's Do Make Say Think.
posted by punkrockrat at 10:06 AM on April 10, 2010
Ghidoirah beat me to Rush. I would also include the Mothers of Invention and the subsequent incarnations of Frank Zappa's band. They were all crack musicians, as they had to be, considering the complexity of Zappa's music
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 10:07 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by oozy rat in a sanitary zoo at 10:07 AM on April 10, 2010
I routinely argue that Sleater-Kinney fits this bill. Janet Weiss is a fantastic drummer, Corin Tucker's voice is terriflying-awesome, and I believe Carrie Brownstein ranked (somewhere) in Rolling Stone's 100 best guitarists.
posted by Peter Petridish at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by Peter Petridish at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2010
Seriously, though, The Who.
Entwistle - some say the greatest bassist ever.
Moon - need anything be said?
Townshend - "virtuoso" does fit nicely here.
Daltrey - most accomplished singer ever in the category of wearing frilly leather native-american/gay biker tops.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2010
Entwistle - some say the greatest bassist ever.
Moon - need anything be said?
Townshend - "virtuoso" does fit nicely here.
Daltrey - most accomplished singer ever in the category of wearing frilly leather native-american/gay biker tops.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2010
Toto - which is proof that technical prowess does not a great band make.
posted by serazin at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by serazin at 10:09 AM on April 10, 2010
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:12 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:12 AM on April 10, 2010
The Rolling Stones. Both with Brian Jones and with Mick Taylor.
posted by k8lin at 10:14 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by k8lin at 10:14 AM on April 10, 2010
In The Roots everyone is rock solid.
Same goes for Television.
And let me second Sleater-Kinney. I saw them live and it was stunning.
posted by Kattullus at 10:14 AM on April 10, 2010
Same goes for Television.
And let me second Sleater-Kinney. I saw them live and it was stunning.
posted by Kattullus at 10:14 AM on April 10, 2010
There are a lot of metal bands (particularly ones you would find put in categories like "technical death metal") that fit the bill here. Gorguts, The Red Chord, Krallice, Behold... the Arctopus, Nile, Keep of Kalessin, Between the Buried and Me, ... I haven't named even 1% of the bands that blow virtually all other "rock" musicians out of the water in terms of technical ability. Naturally, the bassists tend to be less noticeable (with the exception of jazz-influenced bands like Gorguts, Necrophagist, etc.), but complex chord progressions played at ~300 bpm tend to weed out anyone other than the truly skilled.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 10:16 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 10:16 AM on April 10, 2010
Booker T. & the M.G.'s
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:18 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 10:18 AM on April 10, 2010
Seconding The Band - thanks pilibeen for mentioning them. It'd be hard to imagine a harder working, more talented group of musicians, in their day.
Try to find a rock band that can do this!
posted by newfers at 10:20 AM on April 10, 2010
Try to find a rock band that can do this!
posted by newfers at 10:20 AM on April 10, 2010
Sting's first band after the Police. Kenny Kirkland on piano, Omar Hakim on drums, Darryl Jones on bass, Branford Marsalis on sax. That was a pretty sweet combo.
posted by browse at 10:29 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by browse at 10:29 AM on April 10, 2010
Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers is an interesting case where on the surface it's easy to think that the eponymous Petty stands out and the rest of the guys are "just backup"--but the Heartbreakers walk that fine line of being both seriously talented musicians in their own right, and being damn tight and cohesive.
posted by drlith at 10:34 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by drlith at 10:34 AM on April 10, 2010
One thing I'd say is that there are a number of different notions of "technical prowess" at play in these kinds of discussions, and in this thread in particular. Some people think of that distinction in terms of how distinctive a style or "voice" (in a more figurative sense) a musician has, while others will emphasize more strictly technical measures that studio musicians and and concert musicians worry more about. Jimi Hendrix is a prime example of where the two sides divide on this. In terms of having a style and sense of invention as a musician, there's probably no *single* guitarist who has done more in the last 50 years. But his stuff isn't terribly difficult to *play* - you can pick up a guitar, work very hard, and be doing decent renditions of his songs in a couple years. (I've known dozens of people who did.) In comparison to someone like Yngwie Malmsteen or Paul Gilbert, his *technique* is very simple. The kind of guitar nerds who buy the magazines and instructional DVDs and obsess over how many 32nd notes they can play over increasing tempos don't think much of guys like Hendrix, Frusciante (RHCP) or some of the others mentioned here. (Their favorite musicians also tend to make music about as interesting as staring at a dog's ass, but that's just the humble opinion of everyone in the entire world except obsessive guitar nerds.)
So if you want that sort of hyper-technical music, Dream Theater, Marillion and some of the more tech-metal bands like Behold...The Arctopus, Meshuggah, and Between the Buried and Me are not as boring as staring at a dog's ass, but are all remarkably accomplished musicians in that sense. An interesting way of coming at this question is, are there artists who have earned some note in both the senses I talked about above. King Crimson is the one above that stands out for me in that sense, and a more recent instance of that would be the band Battles.
posted by el_lupino at 10:35 AM on April 10, 2010
So if you want that sort of hyper-technical music, Dream Theater, Marillion and some of the more tech-metal bands like Behold...The Arctopus, Meshuggah, and Between the Buried and Me are not as boring as staring at a dog's ass, but are all remarkably accomplished musicians in that sense. An interesting way of coming at this question is, are there artists who have earned some note in both the senses I talked about above. King Crimson is the one above that stands out for me in that sense, and a more recent instance of that would be the band Battles.
posted by el_lupino at 10:35 AM on April 10, 2010
Pinback
posted by DeltaForce at 10:40 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 10:40 AM on April 10, 2010
More metal:
To-Mera
Opeth
3
Pain of Salvation
Strapping Young Lad
Porcupine Tree's a bit quieter about the virtuosity, but they're all startlingly talented. And I can't believe that I'm the first to mention the Mahavishnu Orchestra, which is the scariest jazz-rock fusion ensemble I've ever seen.
posted by Schlimmbesserung at 10:41 AM on April 10, 2010
To-Mera
Opeth
3
Pain of Salvation
Strapping Young Lad
Porcupine Tree's a bit quieter about the virtuosity, but they're all startlingly talented. And I can't believe that I'm the first to mention the Mahavishnu Orchestra, which is the scariest jazz-rock fusion ensemble I've ever seen.
posted by Schlimmbesserung at 10:41 AM on April 10, 2010
Pavement? What? Malkmus can play, but he's not even that good of a singer. Who else would you say "has an incredible amount of technical prowess?" Westie? Um, no. Spiral? No. Nastanovich? He's the definition of sticking out. (I happen to love Pavement)
In general I would say most hard rock/classic rock/metal requires technical prowess and most "modern" rock doesn't. Not to say one is better than the other.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Metallica or Guns N Roses. They might not be cool, but they seem like obvious answers to me.
posted by Wayman Tisdale at 10:43 AM on April 10, 2010
In general I would say most hard rock/classic rock/metal requires technical prowess and most "modern" rock doesn't. Not to say one is better than the other.
I'm surprised no one mentioned Metallica or Guns N Roses. They might not be cool, but they seem like obvious answers to me.
posted by Wayman Tisdale at 10:43 AM on April 10, 2010
In terms of sheer chops? Bela Fleck and the Flecktones.
posted by sourwookie at 10:45 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by sourwookie at 10:45 AM on April 10, 2010
Shellac.
Also pretty much every prog rock band from the 70s. They sounded terrible though.
posted by SyntacticSugar at 10:48 AM on April 10, 2010
Also pretty much every prog rock band from the 70s. They sounded terrible though.
posted by SyntacticSugar at 10:48 AM on April 10, 2010
Dillinger Escape Plan
Candiria
Between the Buried and Me<>
Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
etc...
posted by Gravitus at 10:50 AM on April 10, 2010
Candiria
Between the Buried and Me<>
Bela Fleck and the Flecktones
etc...
posted by Gravitus at 10:50 AM on April 10, 2010
The Travelling Wilburys (George Harrison, Jeff Lynne, Roy Orbison, Tom Petty and Bob Dylan)?
posted by ArgentCorvid at 10:55 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by ArgentCorvid at 10:55 AM on April 10, 2010
Hmm. Queen? My only hesitation is that I know next to nothing about drumming and have no idea how amazing Roger Taylor is. Brian May, Freddie Mercury, and John Deacon were all pretty-great-to-pretty-fucking-amazing musicians, though, even if the other band members were kind of eclipsed by the sheer awesomeness of Mercury.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:56 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:56 AM on April 10, 2010
el_lupino: " Their favorite musicians also tend to make music about as interesting as staring at a dog's ass, but that's just the humble opinion of everyone in the entire world except obsessive guitar nerds."
Truth.
In fact, double truth.
posted by Gravitus at 10:57 AM on April 10, 2010
Truth.
In fact, double truth.
posted by Gravitus at 10:57 AM on April 10, 2010
U2! Bono, The Edge, Adam Clayton, and Larry Mullen are all fantastically talented.
posted by firei at 10:58 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by firei at 10:58 AM on April 10, 2010
Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem!
But seriously, nthing The Band. Robbie Robertson is a fucking genius, they had multiple "lead" singers, and are about my favorite of all time (behind U2).
When you think about it, Dr. Teeth et. al. are really pretty good considering they're puppeteers looking at monitors, singing and trying to make it look realistic all at once.
posted by wwartorff at 10:58 AM on April 10, 2010
But seriously, nthing The Band. Robbie Robertson is a fucking genius, they had multiple "lead" singers, and are about my favorite of all time (behind U2).
When you think about it, Dr. Teeth et. al. are really pretty good considering they're puppeteers looking at monitors, singing and trying to make it look realistic all at once.
posted by wwartorff at 10:58 AM on April 10, 2010
Field Music is a great example of a newer band with many talents.
And yes, Led Zeppelin.
posted by bethist at 11:03 AM on April 10, 2010
And yes, Led Zeppelin.
posted by bethist at 11:03 AM on April 10, 2010
I don't know if short-term counts, but Miles Davis' band for Kind of Blue included (among others) Davis, Bill Evans, and, oh, John Coltrane. Pretty fucking great.
posted by sallybrown at 11:12 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by sallybrown at 11:12 AM on April 10, 2010
King Crimson? Which iteration?
Emerson Lake and Pow...
Godley and Cream ( yes even in 10CC)
YES
Talking Heads
posted by Gungho at 11:13 AM on April 10, 2010
Emerson Lake and Pow...
Godley and Cream ( yes even in 10CC)
YES
Talking Heads
posted by Gungho at 11:13 AM on April 10, 2010
As in e-l's aside, 80's King Crimson with Fripp, Belew, Levin & Bruford had that frenetic turn-on-dime stuff down solid.
Much of what is mentioned here is swell music, but not really polished. Of course there is bit of teasing here too.
I haven't listened closely to the more recent Metal that Inspector.Gadget mentions, but what I have heard is usually very tight and intricately crafted.
posted by ovvl at 11:16 AM on April 10, 2010
Much of what is mentioned here is swell music, but not really polished. Of course there is bit of teasing here too.
I haven't listened closely to the more recent Metal that Inspector.Gadget mentions, but what I have heard is usually very tight and intricately crafted.
posted by ovvl at 11:16 AM on April 10, 2010
The Wu Tang Clan
posted by christhelongtimelurker at 11:26 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by christhelongtimelurker at 11:26 AM on April 10, 2010
I think the problem with the question is that part of what makes a musician good is the ability to self edit. If you compare the Malmsteens or Satrianis of this world to practically any of the other guitarists listed in this thread, then based purely on the technicality demonstrated in their published recordings they're going to come up short. But who knows, if you got them in a room together and just started jamming, things might be different, it's just that they have the good sense not to put out an album full of pure wanking. It's very difficult to judge musicians purely on technical capability, because having chops in of itself does not make a good musician, and many good musicians don't measure up chop-wise to dedicated amateurs.
posted by Rhomboid at 11:29 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by Rhomboid at 11:29 AM on April 10, 2010
I am a huge fan of The Band, and although one of the things I admired them for was their incredible musicianship I don't know if I'd call what they had "technical prowess". To take just one example from many, Rick Danko could play the fiddle, but he wasn't very good at it. But they all had such total command of the music that they could each grab just about any instrument and make a go of it.
For straight-ahead technical prowess, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Rush.
posted by lex mercatoria at 11:37 AM on April 10, 2010
For straight-ahead technical prowess, I'm surprised no one has mentioned Rush.
posted by lex mercatoria at 11:37 AM on April 10, 2010
Genesis with Peter Gabriel. They really squandered amazing talent in the later years.
posted by theredpen at 11:44 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by theredpen at 11:44 AM on April 10, 2010
It's difficult to beat Led Zeppelin.
At some point or other The Mynah Birds included Neil Young, Rick James, Goldy McJohn (keyboardist for Steppenwolf), Bruce Palmer (Bassist for Buffalo Springfield), and others. They actually sounded pretty good.
Not sure if you call them a band but N.W.A. had three of the best rappers of the 90s.
posted by euphorb at 11:50 AM on April 10, 2010
At some point or other The Mynah Birds included Neil Young, Rick James, Goldy McJohn (keyboardist for Steppenwolf), Bruce Palmer (Bassist for Buffalo Springfield), and others. They actually sounded pretty good.
Not sure if you call them a band but N.W.A. had three of the best rappers of the 90s.
posted by euphorb at 11:50 AM on April 10, 2010
Neko Case's backing band of Jon Rauhouse, Tom V. Ray, Kelly Hogan, Paul Rigby, and Barry Mirochnick are a technically proficient (maybe perfect?) band that makes incredibly accessible music with nothing that can be considered noodling (not that there's anything wrong with that!). I guess Neko sticks out, but they work amazingly together. Here's them live on NPR a few years back.
posted by activitystory at 11:56 AM on April 10, 2010
posted by activitystory at 11:56 AM on April 10, 2010
Speaking respectfully and as a huge fan of jazz, I don't think that every person who ever played the music is a virtuoso.
But either one of the 'great' Miles quintets, or either Coltrane quartet, or the David S. Ware or William Parker Quartets--now, those are just a few of the many jazz bands where every member was highly skilled.
Also, did anybody say the Meters yet?
posted by box at 11:58 AM on April 10, 2010
But either one of the 'great' Miles quintets, or either Coltrane quartet, or the David S. Ware or William Parker Quartets--now, those are just a few of the many jazz bands where every member was highly skilled.
Also, did anybody say the Meters yet?
posted by box at 11:58 AM on April 10, 2010
N.W.A. also had Ren and Yella.
Gang Starr
Eric B & Rakim
DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince
Kool G Rap & DJ Polo
Ned Hoddings
Invisibl Skratch Picklz
X-men/X-ecutioners
posted by box at 12:02 PM on April 10, 2010
Gang Starr
Eric B & Rakim
DJ Jazzy Jeff & The Fresh Prince
Kool G Rap & DJ Polo
Ned Hoddings
Invisibl Skratch Picklz
X-men/X-ecutioners
posted by box at 12:02 PM on April 10, 2010
The sad thing about those Miles Davis quintets is that they have Miles Davis on them - he's really the weak link on any recording, honestly, as he was technically a bit behind the musicians he got to play with; he doesn't have the speed or dexterity of most trumpet players of the era.
If you want a really, really good jazz group at the top of their game, you should check out the Clifford Brown groups at their peak, during which time they featured Max Roach on drums and Sonny Rollins on sax. Sonny and Clifford were in remarkable sync together on their horns, and every other person in the band was a fantastic and superlative musician.
My favorite is Study in Brown. Here's the Ritchie Powell original "Jacqui," a tune from that record that nicely displays their virtuoso.
posted by koeselitz at 12:14 PM on April 10, 2010
If you want a really, really good jazz group at the top of their game, you should check out the Clifford Brown groups at their peak, during which time they featured Max Roach on drums and Sonny Rollins on sax. Sonny and Clifford were in remarkable sync together on their horns, and every other person in the band was a fantastic and superlative musician.
My favorite is Study in Brown. Here's the Ritchie Powell original "Jacqui," a tune from that record that nicely displays their virtuoso.
posted by koeselitz at 12:14 PM on April 10, 2010
A lot of different bluegrass musicians played with the Blue Grass Boys at one point or another. But at one point early on, the band had Bill Monroe, Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs — easily the top three among the first generation of bluegrass instrumentalists — plus Chubby Wise and Cedric Rainwater, who weren't as famous but were damn skilled players. They also all struck a nice balance between flashy technique and popular appeal.
Also, The Funk Brothers.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:20 PM on April 10, 2010
Also, The Funk Brothers.
posted by nebulawindphone at 12:20 PM on April 10, 2010
ICP.
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:28 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by (Arsenio) Hall and (Warren) Oates at 12:28 PM on April 10, 2010
Steely Dan? They've had many lineups, but their thing seems to be band-oriented, tight, well-crafted music with competent musicians.
In the same vein as King Crimson, there's The Mars Volta.
And of course stuff like the Kronos Quartet — the whole zone in between "band" and "ensemble" is beautiful.
posted by mbrock at 12:42 PM on April 10, 2010
In the same vein as King Crimson, there's The Mars Volta.
And of course stuff like the Kronos Quartet — the whole zone in between "band" and "ensemble" is beautiful.
posted by mbrock at 12:42 PM on April 10, 2010
A lot of proggy stuff will be talented folks. People like Genesis w/ Gabriel and Dream Theater have been mentioned. Since Dream Theater is a bit off the beaten path (and some of the older bands that have been mentioned are bands you've probably heard more of), I'll jump in with some YouTube links for Dream Theater:
John Petrucci- Paradigm Shift
Mike Portnoy - Paradigm Shift
Dream Theater - Ytse Jam
Dream Theater - Erotomania
Other awesome groups have been mentioned, Phish is a really good jam band with some technically difficult stuff.
A lot of older big bands that aren't around any more that I can't remember but used to listen to on my neighbor's record player, they could scream at a mile a minute.
Drum corps is interesting, it's a musical competition, some links for that:
Blue Devils - F Tuning -- hearing this on youtube is nothing like in person, 100+ horn players is loud
Cadets - 2000 -- one of my favorite shows, from 7:00 will impress anyone, 8:00 is a neat trick too, nothing your like high school marching band at all
Phantom Regiment Running -- it takes a lot of talent to run, in step with a hundred other people, and play an instrument, sometimes weighing over 15 pounds, with a metal mouth piece pressed evenly against your lips - and sound good while doing it (Phantom has always had a big sound that i've loved)
Phantom Regiment - 1991
And once you talk about drum corps, that kind of leads into Blast!
Malaguena
Battery Battle
Gee Office Krupke (trombonist on a unicycle and some guy with "hand farts")
Land of Make Believe
Simple Gifts - handbells (another neat talent thing) on sticks to start but man does it ever build!
Everybody Loves The Blues
posted by Brian Puccio at 12:55 PM on April 10, 2010
John Petrucci- Paradigm Shift
Mike Portnoy - Paradigm Shift
Dream Theater - Ytse Jam
Dream Theater - Erotomania
Other awesome groups have been mentioned, Phish is a really good jam band with some technically difficult stuff.
A lot of older big bands that aren't around any more that I can't remember but used to listen to on my neighbor's record player, they could scream at a mile a minute.
Drum corps is interesting, it's a musical competition, some links for that:
Blue Devils - F Tuning -- hearing this on youtube is nothing like in person, 100+ horn players is loud
Cadets - 2000 -- one of my favorite shows, from 7:00 will impress anyone, 8:00 is a neat trick too, nothing your like high school marching band at all
Phantom Regiment Running -- it takes a lot of talent to run, in step with a hundred other people, and play an instrument, sometimes weighing over 15 pounds, with a metal mouth piece pressed evenly against your lips - and sound good while doing it (Phantom has always had a big sound that i've loved)
Phantom Regiment - 1991
And once you talk about drum corps, that kind of leads into Blast!
Malaguena
Battery Battle
Gee Office Krupke (trombonist on a unicycle and some guy with "hand farts")
Land of Make Believe
Simple Gifts - handbells (another neat talent thing) on sticks to start but man does it ever build!
Everybody Loves The Blues
posted by Brian Puccio at 12:55 PM on April 10, 2010
Yeah, pretty much any of Steely Dan's recordings are full of technical prowess.
Am I really the first person to mention Frank Zappa? His lineup changed over the years, but was always full of superhuman musicians.
also, Deep Purple mark II, Medeski, Martin & Wood, Boston, Soundgarden, King's X, Tool.
posted by usonian at 1:08 PM on April 10, 2010
Am I really the first person to mention Frank Zappa? His lineup changed over the years, but was always full of superhuman musicians.
also, Deep Purple mark II, Medeski, Martin & Wood, Boston, Soundgarden, King's X, Tool.
posted by usonian at 1:08 PM on April 10, 2010
(::sigh:: No, oozy rat in a sanitary zoo was the first person to mention Zappa. Still, Zappa bears re-mentioning.)
posted by usonian at 1:10 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by usonian at 1:10 PM on April 10, 2010
Another vote for Bela Fleck and the Flecktones here.
Also, Little Feat.
posted by imjustsaying at 1:28 PM on April 10, 2010
Also, Little Feat.
posted by imjustsaying at 1:28 PM on April 10, 2010
Most of these suggestions are crap. Pavement? U2? Get real. Several more of them are close, but are still missing something. Slayer and Tool are both almost there, but the fact is that Tom Araya isn't really that strong a bass player (he's certainly not on the same plane as King and Hanneman are on guitar, much less Lombardo is on drums), nor is Adam Jones really that amazing a guitar player (compared with say, Danny Carey's proficiency on drums, which is world-class). These are bands that have all really good members, and several of those really good members happen to be truly incredible, but they're not all truly incredible in the way that certain of their individual members are.
Classic-lineup Yes, mentioned above, is a lot closer to the mark, I think. Vocal prowess is a difficult thing to gauge, so it's maybe fair to argue that Jon Anderson doesn't quite fit the bill, but the musicianship of Squire, Wakeman, Howe and Bruford is virtually beyond compare.
I think most of your bands in which every member is a veritable virtuoso on his/her instrument are going to fit into the prog/metal mode that others have hinted at (not including jazz, of course). I'd add Volta Do Mar, The Dixie Dregs and Hella as possible suggestions.
posted by saladin at 1:43 PM on April 10, 2010
Classic-lineup Yes, mentioned above, is a lot closer to the mark, I think. Vocal prowess is a difficult thing to gauge, so it's maybe fair to argue that Jon Anderson doesn't quite fit the bill, but the musicianship of Squire, Wakeman, Howe and Bruford is virtually beyond compare.
I think most of your bands in which every member is a veritable virtuoso on his/her instrument are going to fit into the prog/metal mode that others have hinted at (not including jazz, of course). I'd add Volta Do Mar, The Dixie Dregs and Hella as possible suggestions.
posted by saladin at 1:43 PM on April 10, 2010
The motherfucking BEATLES, yo. Any delusions people have about Ringo should disappear as soon as they pick up Rock Band Beatles and try to play the drum tracks on "Expert." Also Zeppelin, The Who, Primus (love 'em or loathe 'em those guys can fuckin play), Talking Heads, etc.
Waaaaaay back when, when MTV2 was debuting, they played every video on the MTV catalog in alphabetical order by title. It was incredibly interesting for me to watch. We soon came to some conclusions about the acts, namely:
* Every band that gets a video in the MTV catalog has at least one member with talent. Sometimes that member is the producer. But somehow, somewhere, someone involved knows what's going on.
* A solid third of the bands feature at least two truly talented members. These are bands whom you've heard of, who have a couple-three solid hits and something resembling a career.
* A handful of the bands have three really good people and one dude who's quite competent. This is the vast majority of "rock stars" out there -- this is what you need to have to pull off multiple multi-platinum albums.
* Occasionally, everyone in a band is a screaming genius. That would be the Beatles, the Who, Led Zeppelin, &c -- the true legends. When these bands came along in the non-playlisted format of the MTV2 debut, it was astonishing how obviously superlative they were.
posted by KathrynT at 1:57 PM on April 10, 2010
Waaaaaay back when, when MTV2 was debuting, they played every video on the MTV catalog in alphabetical order by title. It was incredibly interesting for me to watch. We soon came to some conclusions about the acts, namely:
* Every band that gets a video in the MTV catalog has at least one member with talent. Sometimes that member is the producer. But somehow, somewhere, someone involved knows what's going on.
* A solid third of the bands feature at least two truly talented members. These are bands whom you've heard of, who have a couple-three solid hits and something resembling a career.
* A handful of the bands have three really good people and one dude who's quite competent. This is the vast majority of "rock stars" out there -- this is what you need to have to pull off multiple multi-platinum albums.
* Occasionally, everyone in a band is a screaming genius. That would be the Beatles, the Who, Led Zeppelin, &c -- the true legends. When these bands came along in the non-playlisted format of the MTV2 debut, it was astonishing how obviously superlative they were.
posted by KathrynT at 1:57 PM on April 10, 2010
As others have pointed out, there are some flatly mistaken answers here. This has nothing to do with how much you like their music or even how much you like the individual musicians as musicians. The question is about "technical prowess."
"Pavement"? "The Beatles"? No.
None of the Beatles other than Paul McCartney had "an incredible amount of technical prowess." Any guitarist who longs to attain the technical skill of George Harrison or John Lennon is not an advanced guitarist. (I say this as a huge Beatles fan who knows all their songs by heart, has been very inspired by George Harrison's guitar playing, and ranks them as far-and-away the greatest rock band in history.)
"Talking Heads"? I'm sorry, but David Byrne is not an "incredible singer." They're a great and influential and life-changing band, but that's not the question.
I question "the Rolling Stones." Did Mick Jagger have "an incredible amount of technical prowess"? I'm not that well-versed in the Rolling Stones' oeuvre, but I've never heard Keith Richards play anything that the average guitarist who plays in a mildly popular local band would have trouble playing. And Jagger doesn't stand out as a technically great singer to me. (But again, I'm open to being corrected on this one since I'm not as familiar with their work as I should be.)
Seconding Queen (possibly the most amazing singer/guitarist combo in any rock band ever), Bela Fleck and the Flecktones (Victor Wooten is arguably the best bassist in the galaxy), Soundgarden (listen to the album Badmotorfinger and focus on all the instruments), and Dream Theater (I don't like most of their music, but calling them technically amazing musicians would be a vast understatement).
The one band I'll add to the list is Pantera (with the caveat that they often have the bass mixed so low as to be virtually inaudible).
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:06 PM on April 10, 2010
"Pavement"? "The Beatles"? No.
None of the Beatles other than Paul McCartney had "an incredible amount of technical prowess." Any guitarist who longs to attain the technical skill of George Harrison or John Lennon is not an advanced guitarist. (I say this as a huge Beatles fan who knows all their songs by heart, has been very inspired by George Harrison's guitar playing, and ranks them as far-and-away the greatest rock band in history.)
"Talking Heads"? I'm sorry, but David Byrne is not an "incredible singer." They're a great and influential and life-changing band, but that's not the question.
I question "the Rolling Stones." Did Mick Jagger have "an incredible amount of technical prowess"? I'm not that well-versed in the Rolling Stones' oeuvre, but I've never heard Keith Richards play anything that the average guitarist who plays in a mildly popular local band would have trouble playing. And Jagger doesn't stand out as a technically great singer to me. (But again, I'm open to being corrected on this one since I'm not as familiar with their work as I should be.)
Seconding Queen (possibly the most amazing singer/guitarist combo in any rock band ever), Bela Fleck and the Flecktones (Victor Wooten is arguably the best bassist in the galaxy), Soundgarden (listen to the album Badmotorfinger and focus on all the instruments), and Dream Theater (I don't like most of their music, but calling them technically amazing musicians would be a vast understatement).
The one band I'll add to the list is Pantera (with the caveat that they often have the bass mixed so low as to be virtually inaudible).
posted by Jaltcoh at 2:06 PM on April 10, 2010
Brian Puccio: I'm not sure drum corps counts in this category. Those groups do incredible, amazing things, and you've listed some of my favorite clips to demonstrate that.
As a former corps instructor, I'll say this: not *every* member of a corps is amazing. In fact, many members are mediocre, and a very few are terrific (this is more true in brass than in percussion). What allows the group as a whole to achieve so well is the design and writing (2nd and 3rd parts are much easier than 1st parts) coupled with the fact that there are no members who suck. Basically, most of the members are a 5/10, and a few are an 8/10.
posted by sleepinglion at 2:07 PM on April 10, 2010
As a former corps instructor, I'll say this: not *every* member of a corps is amazing. In fact, many members are mediocre, and a very few are terrific (this is more true in brass than in percussion). What allows the group as a whole to achieve so well is the design and writing (2nd and 3rd parts are much easier than 1st parts) coupled with the fact that there are no members who suck. Basically, most of the members are a 5/10, and a few are an 8/10.
posted by sleepinglion at 2:07 PM on April 10, 2010
Some of these are reiterations.
All of the incarnations associated with Zappa
Emerson, Lake and Palmer
All of the incarnations associated with James Brown
Return to Forever
The Mars Volta, even though they jumped the shark pretty early.
Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen
Double Trouble
SRV's 3-piece
Stone Temple Pilots (maybe not the bassist... never paid attention)
Dave Matthews band is one of those I have to respect, even if I don't have to listen to them.
Bela Fleck is the same.
I might be back.
posted by cmoj at 2:15 PM on April 10, 2010
All of the incarnations associated with Zappa
Emerson, Lake and Palmer
All of the incarnations associated with James Brown
Return to Forever
The Mars Volta, even though they jumped the shark pretty early.
Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen
Double Trouble
SRV's 3-piece
Stone Temple Pilots (maybe not the bassist... never paid attention)
Dave Matthews band is one of those I have to respect, even if I don't have to listen to them.
Bela Fleck is the same.
I might be back.
posted by cmoj at 2:15 PM on April 10, 2010
Godspeed You! Black Emperor fits this IMO.
posted by raintheory at 2:16 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by raintheory at 2:16 PM on April 10, 2010
I'm going to have to vote for Tool.
I think Adam Jones is a great guitar player, especially given some of the weird-timing stuff that band plays regularly.
Maynard is an amazing singer, Justin Chancellor is pretty awesome, and Danny Carey is simply amazing. I don't think you could do the things they do musically if they weren't firing on all cylinders.
Also, Wilco, especially now.
posted by elder18 at 2:48 PM on April 10, 2010
I think Adam Jones is a great guitar player, especially given some of the weird-timing stuff that band plays regularly.
Maynard is an amazing singer, Justin Chancellor is pretty awesome, and Danny Carey is simply amazing. I don't think you could do the things they do musically if they weren't firing on all cylinders.
Also, Wilco, especially now.
posted by elder18 at 2:48 PM on April 10, 2010
Just about any of Prince's zillion bands might fit the bill.
posted by mykescipark at 3:28 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by mykescipark at 3:28 PM on April 10, 2010
Also, Wilco, especially now.
Kline and Kotche do not a six-piece wherein 'every member has an incredible amount of technical prowess' make.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:41 PM on April 10, 2010
Kline and Kotche do not a six-piece wherein 'every member has an incredible amount of technical prowess' make.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 3:41 PM on April 10, 2010
Hiromi Uehara Trio projects jaw-dropping virtuostic energy on stage.
XYZ | Old Castle, by the River, in the Middle of a Forest | Love and Laughter | I've Got Rhythm (solo)
Umphrey's McGee also fits the bill, methinks. Technically-ambitious, versatile musicians who deliver a pristine, studio-quality wall of sound - a blend of prog, metal, classic rock, dance/techno, and improv.
Wizard Burial Ground | The Floor | 1348 | White Man's Moccasins | Bridgeless | Eat | Sweet Dreams (are Made of This)/Sunglasses at Night (mash-up)
posted by prinado at 3:46 PM on April 10, 2010
XYZ | Old Castle, by the River, in the Middle of a Forest | Love and Laughter | I've Got Rhythm (solo)
Umphrey's McGee also fits the bill, methinks. Technically-ambitious, versatile musicians who deliver a pristine, studio-quality wall of sound - a blend of prog, metal, classic rock, dance/techno, and improv.
Wizard Burial Ground | The Floor | 1348 | White Man's Moccasins | Bridgeless | Eat | Sweet Dreams (are Made of This)/Sunglasses at Night (mash-up)
posted by prinado at 3:46 PM on April 10, 2010
I'll nth lots of yesses (King Crimson, Yes, the Who, Cream, Led Zeppelin, Zappa's bands) and noes (Pavement, Talking Heads, the Beatles — I love the Beatles, but jaltcoh is exactly right about their technical prowess).
I was surprised that someone mentioned a Sting band but not the Police themselves. Stewart Copeland is an amazing drummer and Andy Summers is not exactly chopped liver.
Two bands that deserve to be listed here but haven't been yet are the Minutemen and Hüsker Dü. It probably helps to be a trio.
posted by dfan at 3:51 PM on April 10, 2010
I was surprised that someone mentioned a Sting band but not the Police themselves. Stewart Copeland is an amazing drummer and Andy Summers is not exactly chopped liver.
Two bands that deserve to be listed here but haven't been yet are the Minutemen and Hüsker Dü. It probably helps to be a trio.
posted by dfan at 3:51 PM on April 10, 2010
I said: Two bands that deserve to be listed here but haven't been yet are the Minutemen and Hüsker Dü.
although not if you're counting vocal prowess. Neither of those bands had anyone who just sang, though.
posted by dfan at 4:07 PM on April 10, 2010
although not if you're counting vocal prowess. Neither of those bands had anyone who just sang, though.
posted by dfan at 4:07 PM on April 10, 2010
although not if you're counting vocal prowess.
The OP is apparently counting vocal prowess based on the reference to vocal prowess in the question.
We should be giving answers that are helpful to the OP, not just listing bands we like.
posted by Jaltcoh at 4:14 PM on April 10, 2010
The OP is apparently counting vocal prowess based on the reference to vocal prowess in the question.
We should be giving answers that are helpful to the OP, not just listing bands we like.
posted by Jaltcoh at 4:14 PM on April 10, 2010
"The sad thing about those Miles Davis quintets is that they have Miles Davis on them - he's really the weak link on any recording, honestly, as he was technically a bit behind the musicians he got to play with; he doesn't have the speed or dexterity of most trumpet players of the era."
I tend to disagree. Either Davis lost his speed and dexterity from when he was a sideman, or he's intentionally slowing down and playing loosely, especially on the cool jazz that preceded his fusion. As he recovers plenty of that dexterity (though he does eschew the clean tone that characterized a lot of his contemporaries) in live sets throughout his fusion period, I'm gonna say that it was intentional—it gives him a way of standing out to play slower and looser.
As for the overall question:
Yes to Queen and Cream and definitely the Meters and Funk Brothers and Nashville A-Team.
I might put up Faith No More and Sonic Youth as suggestions.
posted by klangklangston at 4:51 PM on April 10, 2010
I tend to disagree. Either Davis lost his speed and dexterity from when he was a sideman, or he's intentionally slowing down and playing loosely, especially on the cool jazz that preceded his fusion. As he recovers plenty of that dexterity (though he does eschew the clean tone that characterized a lot of his contemporaries) in live sets throughout his fusion period, I'm gonna say that it was intentional—it gives him a way of standing out to play slower and looser.
As for the overall question:
Yes to Queen and Cream and definitely the Meters and Funk Brothers and Nashville A-Team.
I might put up Faith No More and Sonic Youth as suggestions.
posted by klangklangston at 4:51 PM on April 10, 2010
cmoj: "Commander Cody and the Lost Planet Airmen"
awesome, and nice people to boot.
posted by Gravitus at 4:52 PM on April 10, 2010
awesome, and nice people to boot.
posted by Gravitus at 4:52 PM on April 10, 2010
I question "the Rolling Stones." Did Mick Jagger have "an incredible amount of technical prowess"? I'm not that well-versed in the Rolling Stones' oeuvre, but I've never heard Keith Richards play anything that the average guitarist who plays in a mildly popular local band would have trouble playing. And Jagger doesn't stand out as a technically great singer to me. (But again, I'm open to being corrected on this one since I'm not as familiar with their work as I should be.)
I'd argue that technical prowess has something to do with the ability to play multiple instruments well, as well as being adept at composition. In that respect, Richards and Jagger are technically savvy musicians and I'd go as far as to say that they possess an incredible amount of technical prowess.
For example, Richards has a unique rhythm style of playing guitar that a lot of those average guitarists in mildly popular local bands are most likely imitating. He's also fairly experimental with respect to tuning. He plays the piano and bass skillfully and is also a vocalist. And he is a great songwriter.
The same is true for Jagger. He's a relatively good singer (I don't know much about technical prowess when it comes to singing to be honest) but he is also skilled at composition and at playing instruments like the guitar, harmonica, bass, and keyboard.
posted by k8lin at 5:14 PM on April 10, 2010
I'd argue that technical prowess has something to do with the ability to play multiple instruments well, as well as being adept at composition. In that respect, Richards and Jagger are technically savvy musicians and I'd go as far as to say that they possess an incredible amount of technical prowess.
For example, Richards has a unique rhythm style of playing guitar that a lot of those average guitarists in mildly popular local bands are most likely imitating. He's also fairly experimental with respect to tuning. He plays the piano and bass skillfully and is also a vocalist. And he is a great songwriter.
The same is true for Jagger. He's a relatively good singer (I don't know much about technical prowess when it comes to singing to be honest) but he is also skilled at composition and at playing instruments like the guitar, harmonica, bass, and keyboard.
posted by k8lin at 5:14 PM on April 10, 2010
I definitely forgot the Who, Cream, the Roots and Tool. I'd also add Pearl Jam.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:28 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by Ghidorah at 5:28 PM on April 10, 2010
I might put up Faith No More and Sonic Youth as suggestions.
I love Sonic Youth, but I've never been able to square up Kim Gordon as much of a guitar/bass player. Or singer, for that matter.
I've seen them live several times though, and if you want to watch someone beat the fuck out of a drum set, Steve Shelley is your man. And, he looks like Harry Potter.
posted by elder18 at 5:42 PM on April 10, 2010
I love Sonic Youth, but I've never been able to square up Kim Gordon as much of a guitar/bass player. Or singer, for that matter.
I've seen them live several times though, and if you want to watch someone beat the fuck out of a drum set, Steve Shelley is your man. And, he looks like Harry Potter.
posted by elder18 at 5:42 PM on April 10, 2010
I'll give tentative recommendations to:
- Roxy Music (Not everyone thinks Brian Ferry is a good singer)
- The Cure (sometimes it's hard to hear the musicianship through the effects, but it does come out in their acoustic versions.)
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 5:51 PM on April 10, 2010
- Roxy Music (Not everyone thinks Brian Ferry is a good singer)
- The Cure (sometimes it's hard to hear the musicianship through the effects, but it does come out in their acoustic versions.)
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 5:51 PM on April 10, 2010
I really can't understand how anyone can justify listing things like Led Zeppelin. The criterium here is technical prowess people. If it was musicianship, songwriting, production, or overall greatness, then absolutely list Led Zeppelin by all means. But Zep songs are ridiculously simple. Most of them have a few riffs and a solo in the same pentatonic scale pattern, stuff any intermediate guitarist can pick up in a few days. It is a fantastic testament to the adage that less is more and I'm constantly amazed at how much they can get out of so little, but I'm sorry, if you think that any Zep song demonstrates extreme technical ability then I just have to assume that you have led an extremely sheltered life and have not been exposed to some of the more 'out there' metal and prog rock bands that regularly pull off crazy feats of tempo and bizarre fractional time signatures and polyrhythms that make your mind melt.
posted by Rhomboid at 6:10 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by Rhomboid at 6:10 PM on April 10, 2010
I find some of the suggestions pretty astonishing; Red Hot Chilli Peppers? Have you heard unproduced Anthony Keidis? The guy's voice is so far from top-notch it's giggleworthy. Likewise I fail to see much exceptional about the abilities of three-quarters of U2; some great songs do not make for "great musicians in every position."
Queen is a good suggestion, particularly when you consider the work Mercury in particular did in pulling non-pop/rock influences into the music; not only were they all top-notch with their own instruments, they were mostly able to play many instruments each, and well. All of them composed songs that are rock signatures for their respective instruments, and May is a fine improv player, too.
There are a lot of metal bands that place virtuosity on a pedestal, often above any other consideration, but I'd certainly cite Iron Maiden as having a top-notch musician in every position for their Harris/Dickinson/McBrain based lineups. Dickinson's voice is quite amazing, and is aging surprisingly well (he's lost some of the top of his range, but he can still hold the amazing long note on "Hallowed Be Thy Name", for example). Harris, in particular, is a highly experimental metal bassist and, along with Lemmy, laid the groundwork for guys like Cliff Burton to do more than mark time for the rest of the band in hard rock and metal.
There's a lot of old-time and bluegrass where all the musicians involved are top-notch with their instruments. Listen to Old Crow Medicine Show or, hell, even a novelty act like Hayseed Dixie, for examples.
posted by rodgerd at 6:47 PM on April 10, 2010
Queen is a good suggestion, particularly when you consider the work Mercury in particular did in pulling non-pop/rock influences into the music; not only were they all top-notch with their own instruments, they were mostly able to play many instruments each, and well. All of them composed songs that are rock signatures for their respective instruments, and May is a fine improv player, too.
There are a lot of metal bands that place virtuosity on a pedestal, often above any other consideration, but I'd certainly cite Iron Maiden as having a top-notch musician in every position for their Harris/Dickinson/McBrain based lineups. Dickinson's voice is quite amazing, and is aging surprisingly well (he's lost some of the top of his range, but he can still hold the amazing long note on "Hallowed Be Thy Name", for example). Harris, in particular, is a highly experimental metal bassist and, along with Lemmy, laid the groundwork for guys like Cliff Burton to do more than mark time for the rest of the band in hard rock and metal.
There's a lot of old-time and bluegrass where all the musicians involved are top-notch with their instruments. Listen to Old Crow Medicine Show or, hell, even a novelty act like Hayseed Dixie, for examples.
posted by rodgerd at 6:47 PM on April 10, 2010
I've got to second Soundgarden, although the mastering on Badmotorfinger makes me cry. Kim Thayil is a god damned monster, they used all manner of crazy-ass time signatures and weirdo tunings, and they were rock-solid in their heyday. God only knows what the reunion show will look like, though.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 7:10 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 7:10 PM on April 10, 2010
Most of the bands that I would've answered with have been mentioned, with one glaring exception:
Gentle Giant.
posted by eclectist at 7:33 PM on April 10, 2010
Gentle Giant.
posted by eclectist at 7:33 PM on April 10, 2010
Einstürzende Neubauten
Throbbing Gristle
Dead Can Dance
Bel Canto and Biosphere
posted by vkxmai at 7:33 PM on April 10, 2010
Throbbing Gristle
Dead Can Dance
Bel Canto and Biosphere
posted by vkxmai at 7:33 PM on April 10, 2010
I find some of the suggestions pretty astonishing; Red Hot Chilli Peppers? Have you heard unproduced Anthony Keidis? The guy's voice is so far from top-notch it's giggleworthy.
Well, the question mentioned "incredible singers," and it is incredible that Anthony Keidis is a famous singer, so maybe that's kind of close?
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:35 PM on April 10, 2010
Well, the question mentioned "incredible singers," and it is incredible that Anthony Keidis is a famous singer, so maybe that's kind of close?
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:35 PM on April 10, 2010
I'm gonna say it: Radiohead (especially because Thom Yorke is a shining example of someone not only making the most of what he's got when what he's got is...unconventional, but making what he's got into a unique motherfucking diamond through sheer talent, skill and effort). Like them or not, they are very skilled and very good at what they do.
INXS from back in the day (believe it or not). Live they were just about the tightest band I've ever seen, every single one of them.
Nthing Tool (and A Perfect Circle). Ridiculously good.
Japan. Steve Jansen is still one of the best drummers ever, Mick Karn may not be technically as good as some, but he has his own great thing, David Sylvian's voice and singing ability are amazing, and Richard Barbieri is Richard Barbieri.
posted by biscotti at 7:46 PM on April 10, 2010
INXS from back in the day (believe it or not). Live they were just about the tightest band I've ever seen, every single one of them.
Nthing Tool (and A Perfect Circle). Ridiculously good.
Japan. Steve Jansen is still one of the best drummers ever, Mick Karn may not be technically as good as some, but he has his own great thing, David Sylvian's voice and singing ability are amazing, and Richard Barbieri is Richard Barbieri.
posted by biscotti at 7:46 PM on April 10, 2010
They're kind of corny, but the madness cannot be denied:
Dragonforce - Through the Fire and Flames
Meshuggah is also incredibly technically adept. They are known to play in odd time signatures.
Every member of Happy Apple is extremely talented. Dave King, the drummer is also in The Bad Plus and Eric Fratzke is in Zebulon Pike, both very technically-driven bands.
posted by Demogorgon at 8:11 PM on April 10, 2010
Dragonforce - Through the Fire and Flames
Meshuggah is also incredibly technically adept. They are known to play in odd time signatures.
Every member of Happy Apple is extremely talented. Dave King, the drummer is also in The Bad Plus and Eric Fratzke is in Zebulon Pike, both very technically-driven bands.
posted by Demogorgon at 8:11 PM on April 10, 2010
Oh, and Opeth. Definitely Opeth. Especially before the loss of Lopez.
posted by Demogorgon at 8:13 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by Demogorgon at 8:13 PM on April 10, 2010
Sting's first band after the Police was great--talented jazz musicians--but Sting played guitar in that lineup and he was better on bass.
The band on Jaco Pastorius's "Birthday Concert" was an amazing lineup.
And if you haven't really listened to Los Lobos, really listen to Los Lobos.
posted by Songdog at 8:36 PM on April 10, 2010
The band on Jaco Pastorius's "Birthday Concert" was an amazing lineup.
And if you haven't really listened to Los Lobos, really listen to Los Lobos.
posted by Songdog at 8:36 PM on April 10, 2010
^I really can't understand how anyone can justify listing things like Led Zeppelin. The criterium here is technical prowess people. If it was musicianship, songwriting, production, or overall greatness, then absolutely list Led Zeppelin by all means. But Zep songs are ridiculously simple. Most of them have a few riffs and a solo in the same pentatonic scale pattern, stuff any intermediate guitarist can pick up in a few days. It is a fantastic testament to the adage that less is more and I'm constantly amazed at how much they can get out of so little, but I'm sorry, if you think that any Zep song demonstrates extreme technical ability then I just have to assume that you have led an extremely sheltered life and have not been exposed to some of the more 'out there' metal and prog rock bands that regularly pull off crazy feats of tempo and bizarre fractional time signatures and polyrhythms that make your mind melt.
Thank you! I'm as much of a Zep fan as anyone, but come on. Cream? Pavement? Red Hot Chilli Peppers? The Faceless would tear that shit up on a bad day.
posted by Demogorgon at 8:38 PM on April 10, 2010
Thank you! I'm as much of a Zep fan as anyone, but come on. Cream? Pavement? Red Hot Chilli Peppers? The Faceless would tear that shit up on a bad day.
posted by Demogorgon at 8:38 PM on April 10, 2010
I'm surprised no one's mentioned Pink Floyd. In terms of pure, technical prowess it could be argued that Waters on bass is the weaker link, but they were all very, very good.
posted by Cobalt at 9:01 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by Cobalt at 9:01 PM on April 10, 2010
I said: "although not if you're counting vocal prowess." [In reference to the Minutemen and Hüsker Dü]
jaltcoh said: The OP is apparently counting vocal prowess based on the reference to vocal prowess in the question.
We should be giving answers that are helpful to the OP, not just listing bands we like.
Indeed. I was in fact trying to give answers that were helpful to the OP, then realized after my initial response that I was just thinking of instrumental prowess, thus my amendment. (FWIW, all the members of both bands were amazing musicians.)
posted by dfan at 9:03 PM on April 10, 2010
jaltcoh said: The OP is apparently counting vocal prowess based on the reference to vocal prowess in the question.
We should be giving answers that are helpful to the OP, not just listing bands we like.
Indeed. I was in fact trying to give answers that were helpful to the OP, then realized after my initial response that I was just thinking of instrumental prowess, thus my amendment. (FWIW, all the members of both bands were amazing musicians.)
posted by dfan at 9:03 PM on April 10, 2010
I probably should have been clearer, dfan, that my point about how we should be directly answering the question was just a tangent from the previous sentence, and not directed specifically at you. I was just responding to your comment because you brought up the question of whether singers count.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:12 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:12 PM on April 10, 2010
I think the OP might just be interchanging "technically great" (skill) with "great, incredible musicianship" (talent). I've wondered myself what bands are considered to have the best musicians at each spot, and that's a more interesting question than "what band is most competent at each."
I guess it's up to everyone's criteria for what makes a great musician, but my feeling is that we shouldn't be limited to who's great on a technical, by-the-numbers level, which might be implied in the title/opening line of the thread. Whereas the main body of the question asks for members who are all "absolutely incredible at what they do."
And yeah, I was gonna suggest Sting's last band before his first band after The Police, ie... The Police.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 9:13 PM on April 10, 2010
I guess it's up to everyone's criteria for what makes a great musician, but my feeling is that we shouldn't be limited to who's great on a technical, by-the-numbers level, which might be implied in the title/opening line of the thread. Whereas the main body of the question asks for members who are all "absolutely incredible at what they do."
And yeah, I was gonna suggest Sting's last band before his first band after The Police, ie... The Police.
posted by TheSecretDecoderRing at 9:13 PM on April 10, 2010
I second Oozy's nominating Frank Zappa and his bands. Might take some sifting to get past his silly, shocking and/or more atonal stuff, but the rock n roll, jams and genius is all over the place once you find your zone with it.
posted by a_green_man at 9:21 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by a_green_man at 9:21 PM on April 10, 2010
Bad Brains.
More importantly, one of the few techinically proficient bands that fucking rocks your face off.
posted by bardic at 10:34 PM on April 10, 2010
More importantly, one of the few techinically proficient bands that fucking rocks your face off.
posted by bardic at 10:34 PM on April 10, 2010
saladin! Volta do Mar! yes yes yes!
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:30 PM on April 10, 2010
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:30 PM on April 10, 2010
I;m not a big fan of 'muso' bands, but Teenage Fanclub frequently swop instruments in concert.
posted by mippy at 1:33 AM on April 11, 2010
posted by mippy at 1:33 AM on April 11, 2010
One angle of approach on this is to go for "supergroups" -- Cream, mentioned earlier on in this thread, is one example of this. But there are others. Personally, I'm a huge fan of Colonel Claypool's Bucket of Bernie Brains. Many jazz bands called the so-and-so-allstars are built on that model too.
posted by paultopia at 2:25 AM on April 11, 2010
posted by paultopia at 2:25 AM on April 11, 2010
I really can't understand how anyone can justify listing things like Led Zeppelin. The criterium here is technical prowess people. If it was musicianship, songwriting, production, or overall greatness, then absolutely list Led Zeppelin by all means. But Zep songs are ridiculously simple.
I think we may be understanding the question differently. The question was
What are some bands where every member has an incredible amount of technical prowess?
That pretty much defines what LZ were about as a band. A supergroup made up of an amazing front man, a seminal guitarist, an all-round super-talented musician and arranger and a fantastic drummer. You seem to be taking the question to mean "what are some virtuoso bands who highlight their technical prowess in their songs?" That, to me, is a very different question, and if that were the question then it would also be hard to justify talking about bands like Booker T and the MGs and the Funk Brothers, both of which I think are excellent answers to the question as I understand it.
posted by ob at 3:25 AM on April 11, 2010
I think we may be understanding the question differently. The question was
What are some bands where every member has an incredible amount of technical prowess?
That pretty much defines what LZ were about as a band. A supergroup made up of an amazing front man, a seminal guitarist, an all-round super-talented musician and arranger and a fantastic drummer. You seem to be taking the question to mean "what are some virtuoso bands who highlight their technical prowess in their songs?" That, to me, is a very different question, and if that were the question then it would also be hard to justify talking about bands like Booker T and the MGs and the Funk Brothers, both of which I think are excellent answers to the question as I understand it.
posted by ob at 3:25 AM on April 11, 2010
I had a bunch of favorite bands like Pearl Jam and Foo Fighters, but then I remembered: weren't Steely Dan and Boston kind of known for being extremely technically talented?
posted by dzaz at 5:06 AM on April 11, 2010
posted by dzaz at 5:06 AM on April 11, 2010
Good point, sleepinglion.
posted by Brian Puccio at 6:24 AM on April 11, 2010
posted by Brian Puccio at 6:24 AM on April 11, 2010
Based on this, I'm sensing the MeFi definition of technical prowess is one of three things:
1. Great, world-changing band with at least two musically gifted members;
2. Bands that play incredibly loud and incredibly fast; and
3. Anyone but my favorite band, which sucks.
So I'm not sure we're all working from the same definition here. And perhaps we're letting songwriting and musical creativity overshadow what "technical prowess" means here.
posted by dw at 8:26 AM on April 11, 2010
1. Great, world-changing band with at least two musically gifted members;
2. Bands that play incredibly loud and incredibly fast; and
3. Anyone but my favorite band, which sucks.
So I'm not sure we're all working from the same definition here. And perhaps we're letting songwriting and musical creativity overshadow what "technical prowess" means here.
posted by dw at 8:26 AM on April 11, 2010
I cannot believe no one has mentioned Weather Report. 'Nuff said.
posted by private_idaho at 10:01 AM on April 11, 2010
posted by private_idaho at 10:01 AM on April 11, 2010
Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Practically every member ever to play in the lineup has his own terrific band.
posted by desuetude at 12:18 PM on April 11, 2010
posted by desuetude at 12:18 PM on April 11, 2010
I'm late to the party,but...
Michael Brecker's group on "Time Is Of The Essence".
Brecker, Pat Metheny, Elvin Jones, Larry Goldings, Bill Stewart.
Each of those guys is a master technician.
I grew up playing the music of a lot of the bands mentioned earlier in this thread. I love playing a bassline by Flea, or some of Bela Fleck's tunes on banjo. They're great players with excellent tunes.
But I double dog dare you or anyone to play the tunes on "Time Is Of The Essence". They are technically challenging just to get the head right, much less nailing a solo.
That doesn't mean Jimi Hendrix wasn't a great musician or anything. SRV was an awesome pentatonic player. Dragon Force is outstanding (and hilarious). Even the Mike Varney bands were awesome and technical. But. Take any of those players and give them a month to woodshed "Donna Lee" at the tempo of their choice, and the solo is still going to suck.
Does this make me sound like a jazz nazi? Perhaps. But I play all these styles of music and the one that is *technically challenging* is jazz.
posted by lothar at 12:23 PM on April 11, 2010
Michael Brecker's group on "Time Is Of The Essence".
Brecker, Pat Metheny, Elvin Jones, Larry Goldings, Bill Stewart.
Each of those guys is a master technician.
I grew up playing the music of a lot of the bands mentioned earlier in this thread. I love playing a bassline by Flea, or some of Bela Fleck's tunes on banjo. They're great players with excellent tunes.
But I double dog dare you or anyone to play the tunes on "Time Is Of The Essence". They are technically challenging just to get the head right, much less nailing a solo.
That doesn't mean Jimi Hendrix wasn't a great musician or anything. SRV was an awesome pentatonic player. Dragon Force is outstanding (and hilarious). Even the Mike Varney bands were awesome and technical. But. Take any of those players and give them a month to woodshed "Donna Lee" at the tempo of their choice, and the solo is still going to suck.
Does this make me sound like a jazz nazi? Perhaps. But I play all these styles of music and the one that is *technically challenging* is jazz.
posted by lothar at 12:23 PM on April 11, 2010
I'm not sure if we're talking about good music or difficult music. I'm talking about good.
I might have listed Cream in my last post, but I'd have to take that back. I don't think Bruce was really all that great of a bass player. Maybe his vocals put him over the threshold, though.
Here are some more though
Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young
Traffic
Buffalo Springfield
Gravediggaz (if Wu Tang counts)
posted by cmoj at 12:48 PM on April 11, 2010
I might have listed Cream in my last post, but I'd have to take that back. I don't think Bruce was really all that great of a bass player. Maybe his vocals put him over the threshold, though.
Here are some more though
Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young
Traffic
Buffalo Springfield
Gravediggaz (if Wu Tang counts)
posted by cmoj at 12:48 PM on April 11, 2010
I'm surprised Captain Beefheart (...and/or His Magic Band...) hasn't come up.
Although, in the words of Matt Groenig: "At first I thought that [Trout Mask Replica] was the worst thing I'd ever heard. I said to myself, they're not even trying! It was just a sloppy cacophony. Then I listened to it a couple more times, because I couldn't believe Frank Zappa could do this to me — and because a double album cost a lot of money. About the third time, I realized they were doing it on purpose; they meant it to sound exactly this way. About the sixth or seventh time, it clicked in, and I thought it was the greatest album I'd ever heard."
The band had incredible technical skill, but they were playing these very weird and sort of deliberately nauseating arrangements, and a lot of people have a hard time getting behind it. So, you know, YMMV.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:05 PM on April 11, 2010
Although, in the words of Matt Groenig: "At first I thought that [Trout Mask Replica] was the worst thing I'd ever heard. I said to myself, they're not even trying! It was just a sloppy cacophony. Then I listened to it a couple more times, because I couldn't believe Frank Zappa could do this to me — and because a double album cost a lot of money. About the third time, I realized they were doing it on purpose; they meant it to sound exactly this way. About the sixth or seventh time, it clicked in, and I thought it was the greatest album I'd ever heard."
The band had incredible technical skill, but they were playing these very weird and sort of deliberately nauseating arrangements, and a lot of people have a hard time getting behind it. So, you know, YMMV.
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:05 PM on April 11, 2010
Kentucky Thunder, Ricky Skaggs' band. Saw them in concert with Bruce Hornsby (again, someone else who could do just about anything, and did) and they were ridiculous.
posted by Madamina at 7:23 PM on April 11, 2010
posted by Madamina at 7:23 PM on April 11, 2010
Surprised Flaming Lips haven't been mentioned - those guys are all way deep into music theory, but I suppose that's not the same thing as having technical prowess...
posted by Prevailing Southwest at 5:04 PM on April 15, 2010
posted by Prevailing Southwest at 5:04 PM on April 15, 2010
Surprised Flaming Lips haven't been mentioned
Well, we're trying to answering the OP's question, which is about bands with technically amazing singers and musicians. Is Wayne Coyne a technically amazing singer? I don't think so.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:55 PM on April 15, 2010
Well, we're trying to answering the OP's question, which is about bands with technically amazing singers and musicians. Is Wayne Coyne a technically amazing singer? I don't think so.
posted by Jaltcoh at 7:55 PM on April 15, 2010
Technically, it's amazing he's a singer.
(I kid. I love the Flaming Lips.)
Somehow both of Zorn's big bands, Naked City and Masada, got missed. I'd also mention Fantomas.
posted by klangklangston at 8:44 PM on April 15, 2010
(I kid. I love the Flaming Lips.)
Somehow both of Zorn's big bands, Naked City and Masada, got missed. I'd also mention Fantomas.
posted by klangklangston at 8:44 PM on April 15, 2010
... I really can't understand how anyone can justify listing things like Led Zeppelin...
People get confused and think that technical prowess is merely the ability to produce a huge quantity of notes in metronomic time. Any beginning guitarist or bassist or drummer can learn all the parts of any Zeppelin song in a day, i'ts true. But it'll be years of hard work, if ever, before they can play with the kind of pocket Page, Jones, and Bonham had.
Technical proficiency isn't just about accurately producing a lot of notes. It's also about the precise placement in time and dynamics of those notes.
I'm also going to defend the technical prowess of the Beatles. Look at some old vids of them playing live, or just listen to the recordings. Lennon's right hand and Ringo's snare drum are so closely synced that it seems impossible. This level of tightness is just plain rare in bands that aren't overtly concerned with virtuosity. They developed this tightness in 10,000 hours playing in Hamburg clubs.
This is to say nothing of their absurd degree of vocal prowess. Try to sing If I Fell or This Boy while playing an instrument perfectly locked with the other instruments. Do a cover version of Paperback Writer. How come cover bands seem to never touch those songs? They can't make it sound good, and that is a technical issue.
Check out the 1965 NME awards on Youtube with the Stones, Kinks, and Moody Blues (all cool bands), made to look like slobs by the Beatles when they finally come on. They were a cut above their peers, not just in songwriting, but in tightness, which is part of technical prowess.
I'll also add to the list Steve Vai and any of his ridiculously proficient band lineups.
posted by norbulator at 11:34 AM on April 17, 2010
People get confused and think that technical prowess is merely the ability to produce a huge quantity of notes in metronomic time. Any beginning guitarist or bassist or drummer can learn all the parts of any Zeppelin song in a day, i'ts true. But it'll be years of hard work, if ever, before they can play with the kind of pocket Page, Jones, and Bonham had.
Technical proficiency isn't just about accurately producing a lot of notes. It's also about the precise placement in time and dynamics of those notes.
I'm also going to defend the technical prowess of the Beatles. Look at some old vids of them playing live, or just listen to the recordings. Lennon's right hand and Ringo's snare drum are so closely synced that it seems impossible. This level of tightness is just plain rare in bands that aren't overtly concerned with virtuosity. They developed this tightness in 10,000 hours playing in Hamburg clubs.
This is to say nothing of their absurd degree of vocal prowess. Try to sing If I Fell or This Boy while playing an instrument perfectly locked with the other instruments. Do a cover version of Paperback Writer. How come cover bands seem to never touch those songs? They can't make it sound good, and that is a technical issue.
Check out the 1965 NME awards on Youtube with the Stones, Kinks, and Moody Blues (all cool bands), made to look like slobs by the Beatles when they finally come on. They were a cut above their peers, not just in songwriting, but in tightness, which is part of technical prowess.
I'll also add to the list Steve Vai and any of his ridiculously proficient band lineups.
posted by norbulator at 11:34 AM on April 17, 2010
It's one thing to be in the pocket playing straight 4/4; a lot of people can do that, and I don't see that as much of an accomplishment. But find a rhythm section that can do what Danny Carey and Justin Chancellor manage to achieve on tracks like Rosetta Stoned, and be able to tour constantly at that level, and now you're talking technical prowess.
posted by Rhomboid at 7:18 PM on April 17, 2010
posted by Rhomboid at 7:18 PM on April 17, 2010
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Living Colour, also, all fantastic musicians.
posted by Ghidorah at 9:56 AM on April 10, 2010