should I stay or should I go now. If I stay there will be trouble. If I go there will be double.

April 8, 2010 5:50 PM

Do I take the new job that's just about as bad as the old job? Or do I stay in the old job and hope it gets better?

I've been in the same job for years and almost from the first week, I realized it was a mistake. I'm good at it, but I'm miserable and my most marketable skills are atrophying. The commute stinks, the politics stink and I'm not a fan of my boss. I am good at it compared to others. I do have a number of people who count on me to make it good around here. The company is stable, if boring. I am 80% sure I will get a small raise and a big promotion in 2 months. There's talk of a reorg that will "shake things up" in a way that may be better for me, but after a few years here, I can't imagine that it will fix all the issues.

Enter the other job. It's in the same industry. It's got a nearly identical commute. It's the equivalent title to what I'd get promoted to. The money is proximate to what I'd get if I get a raise. The company is doing poorly. In order to reverse its death spiral, they've brought in a new team that's very smart and energetic and I'd be part of that team. They've recently had layoffs and budget cuts.

Normally, I'd be very decisive and just go on gut, but I'm wavering here.

Devil I know and where I've proven myself but I'm fed up with?

or

Devil I don't know facing many of the same issues where I'd be fresh meat, but is a bigger risk from a business health perspective?

- I don't see making a long term career at either
- I'd be fairly critical to the success of either company

posted by anonymous to Work & Money (18 answers total)

The World Famous kind of covered this.

If the grass ain't greener why make the change? If things don't improve in two months or four months... go find another job that is actually an improvement.
posted by FlamingBore at 6:09 PM on April 8, 2010

Which do you think will hurt more in a worst-case scenario: being laid off at the company that's doing poorly, or working for the company you're miserable at if the reorg and promotion don't take place?
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 6:11 PM on April 8, 2010

Death Spiral? Really? You're considering the death spiral job?

This isn't so crazy, actually. Every organization struggles with cultural inertia while things are stable, and a poisonous work environment that rarely changes. A company in a death spiral (depending on the company) rarely actually dies--it gets bought out, refinanced, goes through chapter 11... and changes quite a bit, frequently. Fossils get laid off, previously sacred cows slaughtered, and a lot of ideas and practices that were unthinkable to mention before are on the table. Surviving in such an environment can see you through to more stable times, and actually give you a chance to create the kind of environment you want to be in.

If the OP has the wherewithal to stand being laid off from the new job and unable to get the old job back (i.e., has an employed spouse or savings), then it's worth considering the new job just to get out of a rut that sucks, and won't be any different tomorrow than it is today.
posted by fatbird at 6:21 PM on April 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Why jump ship for the raise that the old company would have given you? Demand more $$ (20-50% more, or whatever you think it should be) from the new company, then go to your current company once you have an offer in hand. Be sure to pay attention to the whole package, as vacation time, stock grants (not options, and not vesting), health plans, retirement, etc. have value, too.

You're a textbook case on how to get a raise, except this time, for once in a thousand asks, you won't need to warned against bluffing a backup offer. You lament that your current job is basically lame, but this puts you in a perfectly dispassionate position. Milk it.
posted by rhizome at 6:22 PM on April 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

c) Take whatever job that would be more conducive to finding a better job where, at the very least, the commute doesn't suck.
posted by foxjacket at 6:42 PM on April 8, 2010

I reckon jump ship. Even if it's a similar situation, it's a fresh start, and you get an opportunity to make all your decisions again. A new perspective will help you to better figure out what you want in future, and avoid this prevaricating.
posted by cogat at 6:44 PM on April 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Something to think about, from someone who jumped ship. Your job now sucks. Your new job would be essentially the same, yes? Except here's the thing. Sucky jobs suck in their own unique way. If you jump, you might find yourself in a sucky job, finding out all brand new about all the things that suck differently from your last job. While at your current job, you know what you don't like about it, and you understand it. The new job will bring about the period of discovery during which time you might actually find yourself pining for your old job even though you know it's not a job you want.

Disclaimer: I'm currently going through the "What the hell?!" phase at a new, shitty job after leaving my own shitty job, one that drained all sense of purpose from my life. The problem now is that I look back on the devil that I knew and I'm looking back fondly.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:02 PM on April 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Use Job #2 to get a raise at Job #1, and then stay at Job #1 while you look for Job #3: the job you actually want.
posted by sallybrown at 7:12 PM on April 8, 2010 [3 favorites]

Should you stay or go? It's a false choice. I'd aim for neither.

Find a way to make your job (either one, or something else) not suck!
Specifically:
1. Think about how you and your job now are like how some ultrasuccessful people like Mark Cuban (link to blog with autobiography) started out. You might find this helps you decide what to do.
2. Read "10 reasons to never get a job" (Steve Pavlina) for ideas about ways to support yourself that might make you happier than giving your power away to a boss.
3. Read "The Now Habit" for well-regarded advice on how to get it done when you'd rather just complain about it.

My experience: I have put in a lot of time learning new stuff, so my job now only kind of sucks, and my next job (researcher @ grad school) will suck less. Living alone recently, I have found it's up to me to make myself happy-- no one else will do it. Good luck
posted by sninctown at 7:23 PM on April 8, 2010

You're looking at more money and a promotion, or the possibility of more money and a promotion. I'd go for the sure thing.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:42 PM on April 8, 2010

At least until the promotions come around. I would not jump into the other job unless you think the gamble can land you in a very large spot. You need to assess your options thoroughly. Can you afford taking the gamble and losing? If that happened could you bounce back and find a job somewhere else? If you stayed at your old job, what are the chances of getting a promotion/ raise? Is it worth sticking around for the chance at getting lucky? Just random questions you need to judge and see where you stand.

No one got rich without a little luck, maybe you should spin your own wheel. You might regret it, or you will never look back.
posted by NotSoSiniSter at 7:49 PM on April 8, 2010

You sound stultified. Life is short. The new gig would have a guaranteed raise and promotion and be full of smart and energetic people. I'd do it, particularly if you feel like you have some confidence it would pull through or that you'd have the connections you'd need to find another job if the new ship starts sinking. Basically, what fatbird said.
posted by salvia at 11:47 PM on April 8, 2010 [2 favorites]

You're a textbook case on how to get a raise, except this time, for once in a thousand asks, you won't need to warned against bluffing a backup offer.

Seconded. This is the perfect opportunity for you because you have absolutely nothing to lose. Ask for 20% more. When you get it, tell your current employers and let them make a counter offer.

This is what we call a free raise.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:29 AM on April 9, 2010

If you decide you want to look for a new, more challenging job in the next couple of months it would probably look better if you went from your current role rather than a new role that you have only been at for a few months. Is it an option to stay where you are and look for something better?
posted by Laura_J at 4:47 AM on April 9, 2010

I disagree with using this opportunity to force a raise for yourself. The obvious thing about "give me a raise or I'll take this other job" is that they weren't going to give you a raise beforehand, so extorting one (from their perspective) may get you your money at a cost of poisoning things even further. If you don't care about that, then go for it, but keep in mind that things can always be worse.

But really, as everyone else here said, find job #3, the one that you actually like and pays you as well as you want. Fighting over crappy placeholder jobs is how souls destroy themselves.
posted by fatbird at 10:22 AM on April 9, 2010 [1 favorite]

The obvious thing about "give me a raise or I'll take this other job" is that they weren't going to give you a raise beforehand, so extorting one (from their perspective) may get you your money at a cost of poisoning things even further.

I don't understand this. Acting on this situation is The AskMe(tm) broken-record response to every single "I'm underpaid" question. It's not extortion, it's just business. The company isn't going to hold it against them, if anything it will show them that the employee means business, coincidentally (or not) a core skill for management.

And they don't need to wait the two months until reviews naturally come around because that schedule is just for bureacracy's convenience, as arbitrary as re-enrollment for health plans. If the company really feels that changes should wait, you negotiate the raise (and possible promotion) now and have the title change occur when they're normally handed out.
posted by rhizome at 5:14 PM on April 9, 2010

It's not extortion, it's just business. The company isn't going to hold it against them.

The company won't, but the manager who's expenses just increased (without a commensurate increase in revenue) might.

"It's just business" implies rational calculation, but rarely is any business run entirely (or even mostly) on rational calculation, especially at the middle management layer where one works for an executive rather than the health of the business overall. Personalities and relationships matter a lot in the workplace. If the only reason you're giving an employee a raise is because they're threatening to leave (and not because you think they're actually worth more), it's not going to improve the overall situation, especially if it's bad in the first place--your job hasn't changed, but you now cost the company more.

A lot depends upon the boss you're giving the ultimatum to, and your relationship with them. The OP specifically said that workplace sucks and the politics of the place stink. I wouldn't ask for a counteroffer unless I had a good relationship with my boss and felt confident that we'd both view it as "just business". If your relationship with your boss is poor, what do you think it'll be like once she feels like you've strongarmed her into giving you a raise she wasn't prepared to give you in the first place?
posted by fatbird at 11:04 PM on April 9, 2010

Sure, but the OP will be able to read their boss' face when they talk about it. If the OP gets pushback or any other indication that there be dragons then they can take the other job. While the politics of the current job may suck, no boss is going to approach this without a rational calculation since they would themselves have big problems with *their* boss if they say, "Oh, I let them go. They wanted to be paid market rate and I thought that was kinda mean." Nine times out of ten (made up statistic), boss' boss is going to rip them a new one for letting a proven and capable employee go. It costs more than the raise being talked about to hire a new person, train them, and wait for them to match the productivity of the person they're replacing.

The OP isn't going to get a raise because they're threatening to leave, they would get the raise because the boss doesn't want to lose the value of the employee. The OP would merely be saying (effectively) that they want to be paid what they're worth, and they know they're worth $X because Company B is offering it to them.

I'll reiterate that demanding to be paid what you're worth is "boss" behavior, and going along with whatever the boss/company feels is right is "underling" behavior.
posted by rhizome at 1:54 PM on April 10, 2010