Why Do I Only Hear About Charismatic Men?
March 5, 2010 2:16 PM Subscribe
Are only men in U.S. society seen as charismatic?
Whenever I've heard people talk about so-and-so being charismatic, they always seem to be talking about a man (I live in the U.S.)
Please tell me if this is only my experience, or if you hear about women who are described as charismatic as well.
I am not debating whether or not women are actually charismatic. I am wondering whether people only use the word "charisma" to apply only to males and why that might be.
Whenever I've heard people talk about so-and-so being charismatic, they always seem to be talking about a man (I live in the U.S.)
Please tell me if this is only my experience, or if you hear about women who are described as charismatic as well.
I am not debating whether or not women are actually charismatic. I am wondering whether people only use the word "charisma" to apply only to males and why that might be.
Response by poster: Well that's good to know...I will have to check out a speech of hers...
posted by thisperon at 2:18 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by thisperon at 2:18 PM on March 5, 2010
Check out Suze Orman and Oprah--I think a large number of people would consider those two to be very charismatic.
Also, any female politician needs to be charismatic to some degree--case in point, Sarah Palin (not commenting on her intelligence, just her charisma and I don't think anyone would try to argue she isn't as it was what her entire campaign was built on).
posted by Elminster24 at 2:20 PM on March 5, 2010
Also, any female politician needs to be charismatic to some degree--case in point, Sarah Palin (not commenting on her intelligence, just her charisma and I don't think anyone would try to argue she isn't as it was what her entire campaign was built on).
posted by Elminster24 at 2:20 PM on March 5, 2010
There are lots of charismatic women.
I don't understand why you would think there are not.
Just look at, for example, Courtney Love and Marissa Jaret Winokur.
There are dozens of other examples.
When charisma is spoken about a man, it's usually a reference to his apparent virility and vigor.
posted by dfriedman at 2:21 PM on March 5, 2010
I don't understand why you would think there are not.
Just look at, for example, Courtney Love and Marissa Jaret Winokur.
There are dozens of other examples.
When charisma is spoken about a man, it's usually a reference to his apparent virility and vigor.
posted by dfriedman at 2:21 PM on March 5, 2010
Charisma is always subjective - a lot of people found/find Reagan very charismatic; in footage he strikes me (who was a baby during his administration) as incredibly skeevy and sketchy. Same with Bill Clinton, another dude.
But as for women who a lot of people might call charismatic, I immediately think of Oprah.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:24 PM on March 5, 2010
But as for women who a lot of people might call charismatic, I immediately think of Oprah.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:24 PM on March 5, 2010
Although one can think of some women described as charismatic if one tries I think that word is much more commonly applied to men. Maybe this is because people in positions of power who may exercise some charisma to get what they want (politicians, bosses, con artists) tend to be men.
posted by thirteenkiller at 2:25 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by thirteenkiller at 2:25 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Now that I think about it, I also tend to hear this term for men.
On the other hand, I only hear the term 'vivacious' applied to women, who also seem more likely to be described as having charm or being charming.
I don't think it's so much than women don't have charisma or are not charismatic, more that in practice it may be a gendered adjective.
It's kind of a funny adjective because it can be entirely complimentary and imply that a person is not only likable but inspires respect, but it can also be a bit sleazy, as in charismatic leader.
Related, perhaps, when I just now tried to think of a woman to describe as charismatic, it was Sarah Palin who came to mind. Somehow she seems to have likability (to some) beyond all reason.
Other women who came to mind, in more positive ways: Princess Diana and Oprah.
posted by Salamandrous at 2:26 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
On the other hand, I only hear the term 'vivacious' applied to women, who also seem more likely to be described as having charm or being charming.
I don't think it's so much than women don't have charisma or are not charismatic, more that in practice it may be a gendered adjective.
It's kind of a funny adjective because it can be entirely complimentary and imply that a person is not only likable but inspires respect, but it can also be a bit sleazy, as in charismatic leader.
Related, perhaps, when I just now tried to think of a woman to describe as charismatic, it was Sarah Palin who came to mind. Somehow she seems to have likability (to some) beyond all reason.
Other women who came to mind, in more positive ways: Princess Diana and Oprah.
posted by Salamandrous at 2:26 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
I agree that the word charismatic is fairly gendered. I have heard it applied to women, but not often. I think if most people were asked to imagine a charismatic person, they would picture a man.
Sexism sucks.
posted by serazin at 2:28 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sexism sucks.
posted by serazin at 2:28 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I've heard Gloria Steinem speak live twice, about ten or twelve years apart.
Both times she struck me as a charismatic speaker (and person) without a doubt.
posted by BostonTerrier at 2:29 PM on March 5, 2010
Both times she struck me as a charismatic speaker (and person) without a doubt.
posted by BostonTerrier at 2:29 PM on March 5, 2010
I have never heard of this male-charisma correlation before. In my experience the word has always been gender-neutral. Actually, the first time I ever heard it, it was referring to a woman (my mother, oddly enough).
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 2:30 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by The Winsome Parker Lewis at 2:30 PM on March 5, 2010
Amy Adams.
posted by nathancaswell at 2:30 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by nathancaswell at 2:30 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Certainly Oprah, Suze Orman, etc are charasmatic, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone describe them that way, until this thread. But I don't really read that much about those two either.
posted by delmoi at 2:32 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by delmoi at 2:32 PM on March 5, 2010
I agree with you salamandrous.
Also I think the concept of charisma is more about the non-physical ways someone is appealing. Women are generally evaluated based on physical sex appeal, so the word doesn't work well within the dominant culture's appraisal system for women.
posted by serazin at 2:32 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also I think the concept of charisma is more about the non-physical ways someone is appealing. Women are generally evaluated based on physical sex appeal, so the word doesn't work well within the dominant culture's appraisal system for women.
posted by serazin at 2:32 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think that possibly "charismatic leader" is part of the usual formula, therefore you hear more about men in this catagory than women, just 'cause our sexual politics are so skewed.
Plenty of charismatic women, and even though I am gagging on this, some people might consider Sarah Palin as a charismatic woman leader. But then ANY person, regardless of gender, who achieves national office could be considered to have a measure of charisma.
posted by Danf at 2:34 PM on March 5, 2010
Plenty of charismatic women, and even though I am gagging on this, some people might consider Sarah Palin as a charismatic woman leader. But then ANY person, regardless of gender, who achieves national office could be considered to have a measure of charisma.
posted by Danf at 2:34 PM on March 5, 2010
Sarah Palin has been referred to as charismatic fairly often by both her supporters and her detractors.
posted by wondermouse at 2:37 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by wondermouse at 2:37 PM on March 5, 2010
I'm a woman and have been told that in a work context, especially public speaking and being in front of a group that I have a pretty charismatic presence.
But it's one of those traits that's easier for men to get away with. And as others have said, women have to go up against the bias of being judged on physical appearance. Like her or hate her, Sarah Palin is a pretty charismatic personality. I mean, I can't stand the woman but you also still can't help noticing the attention people have given to her. Sure some of it has to do with being physically attractive but the woman does have some serious (though demented imo) charisma. Although personally, my all-time standard for female charisma has to be Ann Richards.
posted by green_flash at 2:38 PM on March 5, 2010
But it's one of those traits that's easier for men to get away with. And as others have said, women have to go up against the bias of being judged on physical appearance. Like her or hate her, Sarah Palin is a pretty charismatic personality. I mean, I can't stand the woman but you also still can't help noticing the attention people have given to her. Sure some of it has to do with being physically attractive but the woman does have some serious (though demented imo) charisma. Although personally, my all-time standard for female charisma has to be Ann Richards.
posted by green_flash at 2:38 PM on March 5, 2010
I think charismatic is used more often for men because it's describing a unique . Women are just expected to be charismatic, and it's more often pointed out when they are not.
(Please don't think because I'm pointing this out, I don't think it sucks.)
It's sort of like a (much, much, much more) watered down version of using "well-spoken" or "eloquent" to describe Obama.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:40 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
(Please don't think because I'm pointing this out, I don't think it sucks.)
It's sort of like a (much, much, much more) watered down version of using "well-spoken" or "eloquent" to describe Obama.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:40 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
a unique characteristic, I meant
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:41 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by MCMikeNamara at 2:41 PM on March 5, 2010
Data point: We were covering charismatic religious leaders in one of my classes lately and none of the ones that were mentioned were women. When I asked the prof after class if Sarah Palin counted, he said yes, but seemed sort of surprised.
posted by NoraReed at 2:41 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by NoraReed at 2:41 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: proj:
"1 - 10 of about 3,850,000 for charismatic man. (0.22 seconds)"
(Though my results for charismatic woman were: 1,790,000 for charismatic woman.)
dfriedman:
perhaps i wasn't clear in my question? I said I'm not debating whether or not charismatic women exist, I am wondering why when I hear someone talking about charisma, they are always (at least to my memory) talking about men.
I think salamandrous and serazin and others are confirming my perception of this and shedding light on why this might be. Gender politics may be affecting how often people describe women as charismatic. I am glad that not everyone shares my experience, though, and will hear about women also being described as charismatic.
posted by thisperon at 2:43 PM on March 5, 2010
"1 - 10 of about 3,850,000 for charismatic man. (0.22 seconds)"
(Though my results for charismatic woman were: 1,790,000 for charismatic woman.)
dfriedman:
perhaps i wasn't clear in my question? I said I'm not debating whether or not charismatic women exist, I am wondering why when I hear someone talking about charisma, they are always (at least to my memory) talking about men.
I think salamandrous and serazin and others are confirming my perception of this and shedding light on why this might be. Gender politics may be affecting how often people describe women as charismatic. I am glad that not everyone shares my experience, though, and will hear about women also being described as charismatic.
posted by thisperon at 2:43 PM on March 5, 2010
It might be useful to break down what charisma is. Not sure if my definition works for everyone here but I think a charismatic person is someone who:
you listen to - no matter what they're talking about
you feel sympathetic towards, even if you intellectually disagree with them
you want to be associated with
inspires you to follow them or do what they want you to do
is attractive even if they don't have mainstream "good looks" or your personal idea of good looks
Then think about how people respond to men and women in our culture. My take is that because of centuries of sexism, most of us tend to respond differently to women and men, and that we're less likely to have a "charisma response" to a woman basically because we've been taught not to.
posted by serazin at 2:50 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
you listen to - no matter what they're talking about
you feel sympathetic towards, even if you intellectually disagree with them
you want to be associated with
inspires you to follow them or do what they want you to do
is attractive even if they don't have mainstream "good looks" or your personal idea of good looks
Then think about how people respond to men and women in our culture. My take is that because of centuries of sexism, most of us tend to respond differently to women and men, and that we're less likely to have a "charisma response" to a woman basically because we've been taught not to.
posted by serazin at 2:50 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
Charisma Carpenter is a woman. Her woodworking sklz are limited.
I seem to remember that charisma means a talent granted from God. But it's non-specific. Nowadays it's invariably used socially or politically, in the sense that it refers to someone's capacity to attract or convince, inspire or lead. Which may or may not be gendered.
posted by tigrefacile at 2:50 PM on March 5, 2010
I seem to remember that charisma means a talent granted from God. But it's non-specific. Nowadays it's invariably used socially or politically, in the sense that it refers to someone's capacity to attract or convince, inspire or lead. Which may or may not be gendered.
posted by tigrefacile at 2:50 PM on March 5, 2010
I have definitely described women as charismatic, and heard others do so. This is a really interesting subject though. I think men and women tend to pursue rather different strategies for attracting attention (because different strategies work for them!), and I wouldn't be surprised if there are different vocabularies describing these strategies.
posted by grobstein at 2:56 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by grobstein at 2:56 PM on March 5, 2010
In this wikipedia list of charismatic leaders a quick glance seems to suggest that only two are women. This list appears to be tied to a specific sociological definition of charisma, but it definitely confirms your hypothesis that charisma is a term more likely to be used for men than for women.
This paper looks like it might study the subject as well. You might have fruitful results searching for scholarly articles on gender, charisma, and leadership.
posted by MsMolly at 3:04 PM on March 5, 2010
This paper looks like it might study the subject as well. You might have fruitful results searching for scholarly articles on gender, charisma, and leadership.
posted by MsMolly at 3:04 PM on March 5, 2010
I agree that charisma is, unfortunately, a trait more commonly attributed to men rather than women. Actually, an hour ago, in a conversation about television hosts, I described a woman (Aleks Krotoski, not that it matters for this discussion) as charismatic, and I used the word deliberately, as I think it's a word that we should be using more often, where appropriate, to describe women.
Another word I've recently been preoccupied with is "bright", which seems to be often used to describe intelligent women (as in "She's is incredibly bright"). I'm still unpacking why that word irks me.
posted by hot soup girl at 3:04 PM on March 5, 2010
Another word I've recently been preoccupied with is "bright", which seems to be often used to describe intelligent women (as in "She's is incredibly bright"). I'm still unpacking why that word irks me.
posted by hot soup girl at 3:04 PM on March 5, 2010
>>Another word I've recently been preoccupied with is "bright", which seems to be often used to describe intelligent women (as in "She's is incredibly bright"). I'm still unpacking why that word irks me.
I was just thinking that the word "magnetic" is often used in place of "charismatic" when referring to women.
posted by wondermouse at 3:19 PM on March 5, 2010
I was just thinking that the word "magnetic" is often used in place of "charismatic" when referring to women.
posted by wondermouse at 3:19 PM on March 5, 2010
These searches (1, 2, 3) do include examples of people calling specific women charismatic as well as some suggestive links (I didn't dig in much) that might provoke thought on the why.
Of course one can only speculate about why if charismatic is indeed used less in reference to women than men (tough to prove, though the search statistics do certainly support the theory - "he is charismatic = 252,000 results, "she is charismatic" = 120,000 results). The basic sexism that being charismatic is seen as a leadership quality and leadership is less strongly associated with women seems believable to me.
posted by nanojath at 3:24 PM on March 5, 2010
Of course one can only speculate about why if charismatic is indeed used less in reference to women than men (tough to prove, though the search statistics do certainly support the theory - "he is charismatic = 252,000 results, "she is charismatic" = 120,000 results). The basic sexism that being charismatic is seen as a leadership quality and leadership is less strongly associated with women seems believable to me.
posted by nanojath at 3:24 PM on March 5, 2010
Rachel Maddow is often described as charismatic.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 3:29 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by pseudostrabismus at 3:29 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have heard women described more as charming, vivacious, popular. I have more often heard the term charismatic applied to men. Doesn't mean that anyone applying charisma to men is sexist, or vice versa, though. I think it is just a convention, and not indicative or certain traits lacking in either sex.
In role-playing games, of course, you roll for your character's charisma, whether the character is man or woman. You could *maybe* argue that more men are role players, and so we associate charisma with males, but since quite a few play women characters, even that argument doesn't hold up.
So, OP, you can call anyone you like charismatic. I hereby grant you permission.;)
posted by misha at 3:33 PM on March 5, 2010
In role-playing games, of course, you roll for your character's charisma, whether the character is man or woman. You could *maybe* argue that more men are role players, and so we associate charisma with males, but since quite a few play women characters, even that argument doesn't hold up.
So, OP, you can call anyone you like charismatic. I hereby grant you permission.;)
posted by misha at 3:33 PM on March 5, 2010
I'm still unpacking why that word irks me.
Probably because it connotes someone younger or of lower status than the speaker. We talk about kids being surprisingly bright a lot more often than we talk about world leaders being bright.
posted by tantivy at 3:35 PM on March 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
Probably because it connotes someone younger or of lower status than the speaker. We talk about kids being surprisingly bright a lot more often than we talk about world leaders being bright.
posted by tantivy at 3:35 PM on March 5, 2010 [5 favorites]
I agree that charisma is, unfortunately, a trait more commonly attributed to men rather than women.
Personally, I'm more likely to comment on a man's charisma simply because it seems much more rare to me. It may just be the places I've worked (which have been primarily female-centric), but woman in general seems more personable and better at communicating in public, and therefore more naturally charismatic.
posted by coolguymichael at 3:49 PM on March 5, 2010
Personally, I'm more likely to comment on a man's charisma simply because it seems much more rare to me. It may just be the places I've worked (which have been primarily female-centric), but woman in general seems more personable and better at communicating in public, and therefore more naturally charismatic.
posted by coolguymichael at 3:49 PM on March 5, 2010
Give this word another perspective.
"Charisma" infers the capability of being won over, of giving off an attraction powerful enough to overcome a social barrier.
So, you could imagine that, if "charismatic" is only a label for men, it's is a back-handed insult to men in general. In other words, most of us guys are so hairy and sweaty and stinky, its noticeable when one you find one that is not. That one has a special quality that marks him as different.
If we say that most men are not charismatic, then we're saying that most men are repellent, or perhaps forgettable. Most men will not win over or attract.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:52 PM on March 5, 2010
"Charisma" infers the capability of being won over, of giving off an attraction powerful enough to overcome a social barrier.
So, you could imagine that, if "charismatic" is only a label for men, it's is a back-handed insult to men in general. In other words, most of us guys are so hairy and sweaty and stinky, its noticeable when one you find one that is not. That one has a special quality that marks him as different.
If we say that most men are not charismatic, then we're saying that most men are repellent, or perhaps forgettable. Most men will not win over or attract.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:52 PM on March 5, 2010
Amy Semple McPherson. Wikipedia describes her as "... one of the most charismatic and influential persons of her time."
posted by interplanetjanet at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by interplanetjanet at 3:54 PM on March 5, 2010
Charisma implies seductiveness, and women are expected to be seductive, consequently there is no need to comment on it.
posted by unknowncommand at 4:32 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by unknowncommand at 4:32 PM on March 5, 2010
I think Susan B. Anthony would count (just to add to the list).
The article Wikipedia article on charisma mentions this:
Pierre Bourdieu did not have a very different position from that of Weber's, but he stressed that a leader has charisma only if other people accept that one has it.
It's probably more difficult for woman to be accepted as leaders, even if they have the personal qualities that would contribute to charisma.
posted by nangar at 4:48 PM on March 5, 2010
The article Wikipedia article on charisma mentions this:
Pierre Bourdieu did not have a very different position from that of Weber's, but he stressed that a leader has charisma only if other people accept that one has it.
It's probably more difficult for woman to be accepted as leaders, even if they have the personal qualities that would contribute to charisma.
posted by nangar at 4:48 PM on March 5, 2010
The concept of charisma origniated in reference to leadership ability. If you look and talk about the difficulties and particular perils of visible leadership for women and you begin to understand the disparity.
posted by Rubbstone at 4:56 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by Rubbstone at 4:56 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
Huh. I'm pretty attuned to subtle sexism, yet I don't feel that charisma is a gendered term at all. My own recollection is that women are frequently described as charismatic.
posted by desuetude at 5:06 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by desuetude at 5:06 PM on March 5, 2010
I never thought of it as gendered, and I think about gender issues a fair amount.
At work last week someone suggested recruiting "charismatic" people to my project to help it succeed. All of the people I considered are female. For what it's worth, that's my experience.
posted by selfmedicating at 5:07 PM on March 5, 2010
At work last week someone suggested recruiting "charismatic" people to my project to help it succeed. All of the people I considered are female. For what it's worth, that's my experience.
posted by selfmedicating at 5:07 PM on March 5, 2010
1 - 10 of about 4,150,000 for charismatic man. (0.34 seconds)
1 - 10 of about 2,000,000 for charismatic woman. (0.42 seconds)
1 - 10 of about 9,730,000 for charming man. (0.28 seconds)
1 - 10 of about 14,200,000 for charming woman. (0.30 seconds)
Interesting stuff. What does it mean when men are seen as charismatic and women are seen as charming?
posted by dacoit at 5:15 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
1 - 10 of about 2,000,000 for charismatic woman. (0.42 seconds)
1 - 10 of about 9,730,000 for charming man. (0.28 seconds)
1 - 10 of about 14,200,000 for charming woman. (0.30 seconds)
Interesting stuff. What does it mean when men are seen as charismatic and women are seen as charming?
posted by dacoit at 5:15 PM on March 5, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have described women as charismatic more often than men in my professional life. Whether that's because women have to be more awesome than men to get ahead, or whether I've just known a lot of super-awesomely charismatic women, I can't tell ya. But it's definitely a word I've used more often relating to women.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:26 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:26 PM on March 5, 2010
It is only a gendered word in that the fields in which charisma is key (politicians, playboys, cult leaders, used car salesmen, etc.) tend to be mostly male-dominated.
Although, come to think of it, the more traditionally female counterpart to charisma might just be congeniality. Yeah, that's pretty sexist, actually.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:03 PM on March 5, 2010
Although, come to think of it, the more traditionally female counterpart to charisma might just be congeniality. Yeah, that's pretty sexist, actually.
posted by Sys Rq at 8:03 PM on March 5, 2010
The way I seem to think of the word charismatic relates to using charm to a specific end. Thus, political leaders, salespeople, lawyers, or George Clooney as the archetypal bachelor are often described as charismatic because they are presumably using their charms to get something or to make a point. But a person being witty at a party for no apparent purpose would be described as charming rather than charismatic.
I think the use of this word is reflective of the gender divisions in the kinds of public roles where one would use charm to a specific end, making it 'charisma' instead.
posted by inkytea at 8:10 PM on March 5, 2010
I think the use of this word is reflective of the gender divisions in the kinds of public roles where one would use charm to a specific end, making it 'charisma' instead.
posted by inkytea at 8:10 PM on March 5, 2010
Charisma, to me, almost always is used to describe leadership characteristics. Religious, political, whatever, people with charisma sway groups with the power of their words.
So if charisma is considered more masculine than feminine, to me that's related to the degree to which women are still fighting an uphill battle re: leadership positions in this country. Not so much to have their authority recognized, but to have their leadership accepted. Because a charismatic leader has followers. And those followers are in a subordinate role.
Charisma could also be termed "force of personality". Exhibiting charisma is an active, verbal, forceful thing, even when used subtly.
Women are "expected" to be charming, beguiling, and more indirect in order to get what they want. They're not supposed to draw you in, get you to follow their lead.
And it takes a personality like Oprah or McPheerson to get over those hurdles in America.
Insert $.02
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:25 PM on March 5, 2010
So if charisma is considered more masculine than feminine, to me that's related to the degree to which women are still fighting an uphill battle re: leadership positions in this country. Not so much to have their authority recognized, but to have their leadership accepted. Because a charismatic leader has followers. And those followers are in a subordinate role.
Charisma could also be termed "force of personality". Exhibiting charisma is an active, verbal, forceful thing, even when used subtly.
Women are "expected" to be charming, beguiling, and more indirect in order to get what they want. They're not supposed to draw you in, get you to follow their lead.
And it takes a personality like Oprah or McPheerson to get over those hurdles in America.
Insert $.02
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 10:25 PM on March 5, 2010
Well, I'm definitely a woman and people have labeled me as charismatic now and again all through my life, since I was about seven years old. Personally I don't think I'm charismatic so much as I am just relentlessly unapologetic and sometimes quite tactless while I go about my plan of being a reasonable and extremely honest person. I've come to notice that male friends who act in the same ways in the same sorts of situations aren't labeled anything at all, so perhaps "charisma" is a little bit of a gendered term in the context in which it applies to me. Maybe it's a more pleasant term for "brash"?
Either way, in reading this thread and thinking about the famous women who are described as charismatic, (Katharine Hepburn, Eleanor Roosevelt, Sarah Palin even,) they all seem to be successfully infringing on traditionally male areas of culture and society. Not every candidate for vice president is called charismatic, but to be a well-known female candidate, you have to have charisma sweating out of your pores.
posted by Mizu at 12:13 AM on March 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Either way, in reading this thread and thinking about the famous women who are described as charismatic, (Katharine Hepburn, Eleanor Roosevelt, Sarah Palin even,) they all seem to be successfully infringing on traditionally male areas of culture and society. Not every candidate for vice president is called charismatic, but to be a well-known female candidate, you have to have charisma sweating out of your pores.
posted by Mizu at 12:13 AM on March 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Charisma is what makes people simultaneously authoritative and beloved: it's something about their presence. Because there's a tendency to label authoritative women as "bitchy" and an opposite tendency to label personable women as "sexy" it's trickier for women to emanate charisma than it is for men.
Anecdata ahead. End of term evaluations by university students might be a gauge of charisma, if nothing else. (Yes, instructors talk about these, yes, we can usually tell who wrote what, and no, they're not taken very seriously by anyone.) In any case, the way they're skewed by the instructor's gender is really laughable.
Under cover of anonymity, students have no qualms about calling their female professors "bitch" or "hardass" or worse. Male professors almost never get vulgar labels. Men might be "demanding" or "tough", but never "bastard" or anything like that. The kids just perceive authority differently depending on the gender of the person at the lectern, and to them an authoritative woman is not usually likable. So that's one aspect of charisma that's harder for women to acquire than for men.
If she can manage not to be a "bitch," a woman who wants good evals still has to worry about her appearance. Men never get comments like "love her sexy boots!" (she's hot=good!) or "why doesn't she put on some makeup" (she's not hot=bad!). The kids think these things matter when they are evaluating a woman's teaching -- and it narrows the window for charismatic appeal, because a woman has to be just attractive enough but not too attractive. The man who regularly shows up to teach in dirty, wrinkled clothes and 3-day stubble is just a "nice guy" and his appearance doesn't even register: he can have charisma without a wardrobe, or even without much attention to hygiene.
And in the aggregate, their idea of professorial charisma seems to come straight out of the 1950s: a tweed-jacket-wearing 60 year old white man, who is a good lecturer with a tendency to ridicule students in public if they make mistakes, regularly gets the most glowing evaluations. He's got charisma, and it lets him get away with things in the classroom that other lecturers would get slammed for.
posted by philokalia at 5:39 AM on March 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
Anecdata ahead. End of term evaluations by university students might be a gauge of charisma, if nothing else. (Yes, instructors talk about these, yes, we can usually tell who wrote what, and no, they're not taken very seriously by anyone.) In any case, the way they're skewed by the instructor's gender is really laughable.
Under cover of anonymity, students have no qualms about calling their female professors "bitch" or "hardass" or worse. Male professors almost never get vulgar labels. Men might be "demanding" or "tough", but never "bastard" or anything like that. The kids just perceive authority differently depending on the gender of the person at the lectern, and to them an authoritative woman is not usually likable. So that's one aspect of charisma that's harder for women to acquire than for men.
If she can manage not to be a "bitch," a woman who wants good evals still has to worry about her appearance. Men never get comments like "love her sexy boots!" (she's hot=good!) or "why doesn't she put on some makeup" (she's not hot=bad!). The kids think these things matter when they are evaluating a woman's teaching -- and it narrows the window for charismatic appeal, because a woman has to be just attractive enough but not too attractive. The man who regularly shows up to teach in dirty, wrinkled clothes and 3-day stubble is just a "nice guy" and his appearance doesn't even register: he can have charisma without a wardrobe, or even without much attention to hygiene.
And in the aggregate, their idea of professorial charisma seems to come straight out of the 1950s: a tweed-jacket-wearing 60 year old white man, who is a good lecturer with a tendency to ridicule students in public if they make mistakes, regularly gets the most glowing evaluations. He's got charisma, and it lets him get away with things in the classroom that other lecturers would get slammed for.
posted by philokalia at 5:39 AM on March 6, 2010 [4 favorites]
I'm just one person, but I've never gotten the impression that "charismatic" fits better when applied to either gender. It's always been completely neutral to me.
posted by The Potate at 5:43 AM on March 6, 2010
posted by The Potate at 5:43 AM on March 6, 2010
One more voice to the chorus - I have never ever thought of the word charisma as a gendered term. I wonder if this is regional?
posted by smartypantz at 8:21 AM on March 6, 2010
posted by smartypantz at 8:21 AM on March 6, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ocherdraco at 2:17 PM on March 5, 2010