Trickle down, one person at a time

February 1, 2010 4:54 AM

Where to find companies that pay a 'living wage'?

I'm interested in buying products from only companies that pay their employees fairly. I have heard the term 'living wage', and I'm vaguely familiar. However, as long as the company tries to pay its employees a wage that allows the the employees to buy minimums for food, housing, heat, transportation, health care, education, safety, and savings, they would classify in my mind.

I did a google search, and it looks like a daunting task to find such a list. But, there's got to be a directory out there somewhere, right? Where would I find such a list?

posted by TheOtherSide to Work & Money (33 answers total)

How much is a "living wage" in dollars/euros/whatever per hour? And, are you interested in all companies, or only those who are located and operate in a specific country? And, how are you categorizing companies that pay a living wage, but sell items that are made in dismal circumstances?
posted by Houstonian at 5:06 AM on February 1, 2010

There is no such list, because there is no such standard. "Living wage" is a term used by activists who think that everyone's standard of living should go up, but there is no actual figure one can point to--or at least no single figure, as the cost of living varies fairly drasticly from region to region, and even sometimes within regions.

Furthermore, how would one actually come up with such a number? Who gets to define what "minimum" standards are? What level of education is minimally acceptable? High school? College? Graduate school? Or is this supposed to be set by the individual, because if so, how are you going to set a standard for that? Do you need to be able to keep your home at 70F, or is 58F simply unacceptable? And who are we to decide that for others?

More to the point, there's absolutely no way in hell any companies are going to publicize what they pay their employees. At least not domestically. This is one of the biggest tools companies have to eek out advantages in a ruthlessly competitive economy, and as such it's something they keep pretty close to their chests. You can find lists of "fair trade" companies, but 1) these are going to be imports, and 2) be prepared to pay through the nose.

Short answer: no, there isn't such a list, because there can't be.
posted by valkyryn at 5:34 AM on February 1, 2010 [11 favorites]

Response by poster: Ok, well... how about companies that claim to pay living wages.

I just want to know for my own personal benefit, so I can make informed decisions.

And, sure, the definition of 'living wage' is vague and ephemeral. I know. That's not my point.
posted by TheOtherSide at 5:52 AM on February 1, 2010

Response by poster: And valkyryn, I think you're argument is completely wrong. If there's value to consumers, like me, to have that information, then there's value to companies to provide it. And, I'm prepared to 'pay through the nose.'
posted by TheOtherSide at 5:53 AM on February 1, 2010

You could look into Fair Trade, unfortunately, and this may be the case for other systems too, some people have found that the cost of becoming "certified" as a fair trade provider is somewhat prohibitive and instead just choose to live and act by the underlying concept.

I think a lot of times it's going to come down to you putting in the actual work to find out who fits your requirements. How far do you want to take it? Do you want to check the sources of the components of your electronics? Were the uhhh... silicone miners (work with me here) correctly treated? Otherwise, read up on what Nike vs Adidas vs Reebok do with regards to ensuring their products and production, and then choose the one that you find most ethical for all your sporting needs. Repeat for brands of food, furniture, etc.
posted by Iteki at 5:59 AM on February 1, 2010

Not a list, but I thought of one that might come close: The US auto industry. The wages paid to auto workers is influenced by union actions, which gets them closer to living wages. According to this wikipedia article, " The UAW-negotiated wage was roughly $28 an hour in 2007. For new workers, the hourly wage was lower at $14 an hour; senior workers made more money." However, this wikipedia article states (uncited) that "only 30% of parts used by the Big Three employ union labor, with 70% sourced from non-union labor."

If you want a living wage for everyone in the supply chain, I'm sure it gets dicey. The tires, the rubber for the tires... these types of things are surely made from a variety of sources, and I'm sure you can find that they workers are not paid a living wage. And what of the people who clean the dealerships at night, etc.?

Even if there was a company who paid all their employees fairly, I'd think the supply chain (such as rubber, in my example) and contract companies hired for related services (such as janitorial services) would show workers who are not.
posted by Houstonian at 5:59 AM on February 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Excuse the double, but I think you can probably trust that any company who actually is pulling their karmic weight will have plenty of information on their site regarding their ethical status, and are likely using it as a selling point.
posted by Iteki at 6:00 AM on February 1, 2010

Well, here's what I know for sure.
Tom Bihn bags are a small company, their merch is made in the USA, and they treasure their workers. (I hate the word employees.)
King Arthur Flour is worker-owned and their products are fab.
L.L. Bean boots are made in Maine. I can vouch for their comfort and waterproofiosity.

Your best bet is to google "worker-owned" and dig around that way. I hope this is at least somewhat helpful.
posted by BostonTerrier at 6:01 AM on February 1, 2010 [6 favorites]

Any US company that is union is guaranteed to pay a living wage. The same goes for the majority of European products.
posted by JJ86 at 6:20 AM on February 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Costco treats their workers very, very well. The NYT had a great article a few years back about how they are the "anti-Walmart": http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/17/business/yourmoney/17costco.html

Of course, the products you buy from Costco may or may not live up to your standards.

Also, glad to hear that Tom Bihn treats their workers well... I'll I know is that I freaking love the bag I bought from them!
posted by alaijmw at 6:21 AM on February 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think your best bet here is to shop at small, locally-owned businesses and buy products made by people you can identify. Shop at the farmer's market, buy clothes from local designers who make their own pieces, buy gifts on Etsy, that kind of thing. Yes, it's more expensive, and you might not always be able to find a substitute for factory-made products, but it's probably the only way to know for certain that the person who made the product is being compensated fairly.
posted by OLechat at 6:45 AM on February 1, 2010

The credit union in Ithaca, NY did a large study to find out what the livable wage is in Tompkins County, NY. They pay their employees based on their (updated every 2 years) findings and make the results public in the hope that area businesses will use them, too. Here is a list of 'certified' local businesses that pay a livable wage. Because a living wage is so particular to a specific place, I think you'd have the most luck looking for similar community projects near you to find out which businesses in your area comply with your standards.
posted by munichmaiden at 7:20 AM on February 1, 2010

Interesting reading on the subject is from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation. They have researched and published a study of:

A minimum income standard, based on what people said is needed to achieve an acceptable standard of living in Britain today.

You can find the summary and the full report as pdf here. While this study is for a western society which does not have a strong manufacturing base I think it shows that the idea of a Living wage is valid. Glasgow has tried to initiate some of this logic into certain companies pay their employees, see here.
posted by multivalent at 7:24 AM on February 1, 2010

TheOtherSide, dig this page.
Someone's got to offer an alternative to the black cloud of negativity that valkyryn is offering. Citizens who share the OP's viewpoint are increasing hourly.
posted by BostonTerrier at 7:25 AM on February 1, 2010

Mod note: comments removed - metatalk is your option
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:31 AM on February 1, 2010

in the southeast, grocery giant Publix pays good wages and benefits to *its* workers. as to the production of the food, YMMV greatly.

Polartec brand fleece is made by Malden Mills (renowned for retaining and paying workers after the factory burned down, until the factory could be rebuilt) for incorporation into branded outerwear
posted by toodleydoodley at 8:34 AM on February 1, 2010

A similar approach is Socially Responsible Investing. If you research companies that are considered socially responsible, you'll find the type of data you want.

It really varies by industry. If you hire someone to work on your home, you should verify that they are covered by Worker's Compensation, in case they're injured, as well as paying fairly. Plenty of local businesses pay crappy wages, but buying local helps your neighbors. Feel free to ask the person at the bike shop if they get paid fairly. It would open an interesting dialog.

Frequent union shops. Unions don't solve every problem, but unions are worker-driven, and union shops consistently pay better, even after factoring in union wages.

You can also look at companies that manufacture goods outside the US. LLBean, among others, was cited for fair work policies during the Clinton administration.
posted by theora55 at 8:56 AM on February 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

Knowmore is a good resource for these kind of questions. It doesn't review as many companies as you might like it to, but that's because they spend time writing and researching the profiles rather than just applying boilerplate metrics.
posted by roll truck roll at 9:21 AM on February 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I think your best bet here is to shop at small, locally-owned businesses

I wouldn't necessarily use that as a rule of thumb. Just as a small data point, the large corporate retail store I work at treats their workers better than local competition (at least in the liquor industry). In general, wages are significantly higher than average, we have health insurance, sick-pay, two weeks of vacation a year, 401k with matching and better security systems. I see applications from people who were assistant managers at small, local shops who were paid less than our cashiers.
posted by lizjohn at 9:22 AM on February 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

I asked a similar question about clothes a few months back _{(actually, it wasn't that similar)}, and although I didn't get the concrete answers I was hoping for, it did give me a few ideas.

Now what I do, is if there is a manufacturer that I am interested in, I will google "manufacturer name social responsibility" and I will either get hits pointing to the company's Web site where they describe what they have done, or I will get hits to Web sites that do this type of reporting.

Now "social responsibility" is a pretty all-encompassing term, but maybe you will get the answers you are looking for or at least get a pointer to some other interesting site.
posted by bitteroldman at 9:55 AM on February 1, 2010

Any US company that is union is guaranteed to pay a living wage."

sorta...

some large companies are unionized in one part of the country, then in other parts of the country the company uses contractors, forced overtime, and minimal to no pay increases to offset what they pay the union.
posted by nadawi at 10:22 AM on February 1, 2010

Public companies almost always have a section called something like "social and environmental responsibility" in their annual reports. Corporate annual reports are trying to present the company in the best possible light, of course, but they are audited by accountants and reviewed by the SEC so you won't find any outright lies.

You won't find many (any?) companies that explicitly say they pay a living wage (how would you prove it?). But if they provide good benefits, pay a little above market wages, have particularly good employee retention, etc., it'll be in the annual report.
posted by miyabo at 10:50 AM on February 1, 2010

Polartec brand fleece is made by Malden Mills (renowned for retaining and paying workers after the factory burned down, until the factory could be rebuilt) for incorporation into branded outerwear

Unfortunately, Malden Mills went bankrupt as a result and has been sold off. Not sure what the new Polartec organization is like.
posted by electroboy at 1:36 PM on February 1, 2010

There are lists of "The Best Companies to Work For" that may help you. Other similar lists surely exist.

Somewhat of an aside, but Ben & Jerry's had a "Five to One" policy that said nobody in the company could make more than 5x what the lowest paid employee maid. I liked that idea. They eventually had to scrap it in order to attract the sort of CEO talent that would be needed to take their company to the next level.
posted by MesoFilter at 2:12 PM on February 1, 2010

This is an unanswerable question. Mostly because the premise is flawed. Not all jobs are "living wage jobs". It would simply be impossible to pay a cashier at a grocery store that kind of money and stay in business.

A fair wage is one that meets all applicable laws and that people are willing to work for.

Regardless, pay is not the only form of compensation. Some people choose to work lower paying jobs because they offer flexibility or low stress or some other non-monetary benefit. That you may not be able to know just by knowing what the pay rates are.

So the only way to really know if the company is treating their employees fairly is to go into one of the stores. Do the employees seem relatively happy? Then shop there. Allow them the dignity to be happy for whatever reason makes them happy, not your personal standards for what they should be paid.
posted by gjc at 2:51 PM on February 1, 2010

Speaking as someone who worked for minimum wage until I lost my job, I smiled because that's what you do in retail and customer service, not because my employer treated me fairly.

Another thing to keep in mind in addition to hourly wage is hours total. Many companies only let "full-time" workers get 35 hours per week. I think this is how Wal-Mart keeps from having to offer its workers health insurance. Living wage + enough hours + safe working conditions = rare and amazing service economy job.
posted by irisclara at 4:45 PM on February 1, 2010 [1 favorite]

http://nosweatapparel.com/
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:30 PM on February 1, 2010

Kettle Foods, here in Salem, makes Kettle chips as well as, I think, Tim's brand. Their employees are generally pretty happy and I know the CEO is a pretty conscientious fellow from what I can gather. Their employees always smell great, too.
posted by docpops at 6:54 PM on February 1, 2010

Best answer: I am surprised at the suggestions that a living wage is either economically unsustainable, or impossible to determine. The living wage was the founding principle of Australia's industrial relations system since a court ruling in 1907 declared that a worker should be paid enough to support a wife and three children (or more contemporary equivalent). Governments, unions and NGOs around the world are constantly estimating income levels required to cover the cost of living; it's not a very controversial area afaik. It is however highly contentious to argue that a living wage 'would be impossible to pay' for certain jobs, or that a fair wage is what an individual is prepared to work for.

Having said that, I don't know where you would determine your buying decisions for domestic goods and services in the US, but it may be worth checking if AFL-CIO or Change to Win provide something similar.
posted by 8k at 8:43 PM on February 1, 2010 [2 favorites]

Best answer: Like 8k I am astounded by comments like this:
It would simply be impossible to pay a cashier at a grocery store that kind of money and stay in business
A cashier in Australia earns about 80% of the median income, certainly enough to house and feed their dependents, if not in the style I would like to become accustomed too.
Perhaps you could focus your purchases on products from such socialist nirvanas as Australia, France, Germany, the Nordic countries etc.
I guess even the pittance the UK mandates as a minimum wage looks pretty good when you consider it includes healthcare and potentially subsidised housing (for some).
This, of course, suggests you should shun those US and other developing countries that have inadequate labour laws. This might hurt those people in the short term, but surely the free marketeers would agree in the long term they would have to raise wages if the market demanded living wages as a pre-condition to the sale of their products?
posted by bystander at 4:32 AM on February 2, 2010 [2 favorites]

A friend lent me a book called The Rough Guide to Ethical Shopping. It may not be relevant if you are outside the UK, but certainly worth a look.

John Lewis/Waitrose and The Co-Op are all partially owned by employees, so a good option if you don't have an independent worker's co-op (I miss Unicorn Grocery) near you.
posted by mippy at 6:21 AM on February 3, 2010

unionlabel.org has a directory of goods produced by union shops, which would a good place to start. I've seen a similar local list in a newspaper form one of the unions in my area. Some places are unionized but not fair trade (e.g. Hershey's). So would supplement this with the Fair Trade Federation's search facility and the info from TransFair USA.
posted by tallus at 1:49 PM on February 3, 2010

My comment was US specific, given the prices that retailers have to compete at and the level service customers expect.

I guess my question is, where is the line drawn between a job that should be able to support a family, and a job that one takes to make some extra cash? And who gets to make that decision? And what are the criteria? Should someone who walks into the local taco joint and gets hired to be the second assistant potato washer be able to instantly support a family of five?? I'm no economist, but it seems like that would be a fundamental inflation creating (or stagnation creating) policy. The broad numbers just don't seem to add up.

I'm all for some kind of minimum wage, but the supporting a family criteria just seems a little ridiculous. That mandates too high of a level of productivity- to be able to hire someone at that kind of wage, employers need people with enough training and skills to be able to at least break even. How do workers gain those skills? No kid on their first paper route or fry cook can be that productive for it to pay to hire *anyone* without skills. So, you end up with a glut of unskilled workers who employers will eventually have to hire because the skilled workers move on and retire, and the lack of productivity leads to higher prices, which leads to a higher cost of living which leads to a higher minimum wage.

(And there is a difference between smiling and being happy. It is palpable when you are shopping in a "smile or you will be fired" hell-hole versus a nice place to work. Just my experience, but the people in the Wal Marts and Targets seems a lot happier than their more well paid bretheren in the Costcos and other so called better places to work.)
posted by gjc at 6:06 PM on February 3, 2010