recommendations for great places to work
March 4, 2010 9:27 PM Subscribe
I'm looking for a job. Please recommend some great companies! My criteria: (1) nearly any industry, (2) they employ people to engage in creative qualitative and quantitative problem solving. Many more details inside.
I recently graduated with a BS in math. It's from a Big Name School, if that matters. I've been trying to find a job. The thing is that I have slightly odd criteria, which is making it difficult to find good prospects.
The industry is essentially unimportant to me. I'm open to anything except big pharma and insurance companies. I'm really curious and autodidactic; I have wide ranging interests, and could easily be into many different fields. Really, I'm a scientist at heart (if not by training). I love math. I'm really into public health and epidemiology, engineering, physics... there are lots of possibilities.
I want to do something involving creative problem solving -- math/quantitative, as well as qualitative. I like to figure things out. I like innovating, I like analyzing, I like coming up with new ideas. I'm really resourceful, and I'm a fast learner. I have a math background, as well as a bunch of science (a lot of bio) and sociology/anthropology. I'm really not a programmer, but I like and do MATLAB programming. If all the Java and C people were sick one day, I could probably program something, but software per se isn't my thing. On the other hand, algorithms and pseudocode and MATLAB programming are great. I'm interested in science and engineering; I'm also into humanities. Fundamentally, I want to solve problems, and have the opportunity come up with or contribute to new and innovative ideas/products/solutions.
The only way I've been able to find potential jobs is by searching for "entry level" and "math" and reading through the myriad of results. There's no "creative problem solver" job title, and, again, I'm open to many industries, so reading the descriptions is really the way to go. It's also a bit tough because there's often a fine line between the comp sci and the math jobs. For what it's worth, titles that have come up for jobs I'd like and for which I'd be qualified include various kinds of Analysts, and entry level "scientist"/"engineer." I'm sure there are other titles out there. I have been using the career services at my (former) school as well, and they've been really helpful in some ways.
Here's the thing: I've stumbled upon to companies that (a) sound really cool and interesting, (b) have job postings on their websites or are "always looking for great people," but (c) didn't have listings that I found on any of the job search sites. This makes me think there are probably more good places out there. I want to find them!
The problem is that I'm having trouble finding them. I've happened upon BBN, MITRE, Darpa and NSA, Abt, RAND, Two Sigma, Google. I've discovered these places kind of randomly, in the sense that some I'd heard of (heh) and others I've found by haphazard searching. I'm looking for more places like them. Unfortunately, Google Sets is no help :).
The cool, Google (or Two Sigma)-type working environment and mentality intrigues me, as does working towards the "greater good;" I don't want to help sell widgets for the sake of selling widgets -- I want to help make human experience healthier, better, cooler, faster, stronger, more enjoyable. (Idealistic, I know, but it is what it is.) I'm a bit older than the average freshout (took time off), so a decent or more than decent salary would be nice. Anywhere in the US is fine, though east coast cities (Boston, NYC, etc.) are slightly preferable. As long as there's some semblance of public transportation, anywhere would really be fine, though.
Quantitative finance, though it isn't necessarily working towards certain senses of "the greater good," intrigues me because I think the actual tasks sound really interesting. The govt and/or defense contractors are appealing because of the "think tank"/high-tech/R&D focus (which obviously allows for much creative problem solving and innovation), but I'm really not into getting a security clearance. Not because I wouldn't pass (I have no reason not to), but because I'm a passionate person; I get involved in and excited by what I'm working on, and want to be able to talk about it! I really would hate to have to "leave work at work," as it were. I wish there were places that have the appealing traits of the govt contractors, but where I wouldn't need a clearance.
Thanks for reading this monster of a post. I figure more data is generally better. :)
I'm hoping that the hive mind can recommend more companies to check out. I'd be grateful for any suggestions!
Here's a throwaway email: hopemefindajob@gmail.com
I recently graduated with a BS in math. It's from a Big Name School, if that matters. I've been trying to find a job. The thing is that I have slightly odd criteria, which is making it difficult to find good prospects.
The industry is essentially unimportant to me. I'm open to anything except big pharma and insurance companies. I'm really curious and autodidactic; I have wide ranging interests, and could easily be into many different fields. Really, I'm a scientist at heart (if not by training). I love math. I'm really into public health and epidemiology, engineering, physics... there are lots of possibilities.
I want to do something involving creative problem solving -- math/quantitative, as well as qualitative. I like to figure things out. I like innovating, I like analyzing, I like coming up with new ideas. I'm really resourceful, and I'm a fast learner. I have a math background, as well as a bunch of science (a lot of bio) and sociology/anthropology. I'm really not a programmer, but I like and do MATLAB programming. If all the Java and C people were sick one day, I could probably program something, but software per se isn't my thing. On the other hand, algorithms and pseudocode and MATLAB programming are great. I'm interested in science and engineering; I'm also into humanities. Fundamentally, I want to solve problems, and have the opportunity come up with or contribute to new and innovative ideas/products/solutions.
The only way I've been able to find potential jobs is by searching for "entry level" and "math" and reading through the myriad of results. There's no "creative problem solver" job title, and, again, I'm open to many industries, so reading the descriptions is really the way to go. It's also a bit tough because there's often a fine line between the comp sci and the math jobs. For what it's worth, titles that have come up for jobs I'd like and for which I'd be qualified include various kinds of Analysts, and entry level "scientist"/"engineer." I'm sure there are other titles out there. I have been using the career services at my (former) school as well, and they've been really helpful in some ways.
Here's the thing: I've stumbled upon to companies that (a) sound really cool and interesting, (b) have job postings on their websites or are "always looking for great people," but (c) didn't have listings that I found on any of the job search sites. This makes me think there are probably more good places out there. I want to find them!
The problem is that I'm having trouble finding them. I've happened upon BBN, MITRE, Darpa and NSA, Abt, RAND, Two Sigma, Google. I've discovered these places kind of randomly, in the sense that some I'd heard of (heh) and others I've found by haphazard searching. I'm looking for more places like them. Unfortunately, Google Sets is no help :).
The cool, Google (or Two Sigma)-type working environment and mentality intrigues me, as does working towards the "greater good;" I don't want to help sell widgets for the sake of selling widgets -- I want to help make human experience healthier, better, cooler, faster, stronger, more enjoyable. (Idealistic, I know, but it is what it is.) I'm a bit older than the average freshout (took time off), so a decent or more than decent salary would be nice. Anywhere in the US is fine, though east coast cities (Boston, NYC, etc.) are slightly preferable. As long as there's some semblance of public transportation, anywhere would really be fine, though.
Quantitative finance, though it isn't necessarily working towards certain senses of "the greater good," intrigues me because I think the actual tasks sound really interesting. The govt and/or defense contractors are appealing because of the "think tank"/high-tech/R&D focus (which obviously allows for much creative problem solving and innovation), but I'm really not into getting a security clearance. Not because I wouldn't pass (I have no reason not to), but because I'm a passionate person; I get involved in and excited by what I'm working on, and want to be able to talk about it! I really would hate to have to "leave work at work," as it were. I wish there were places that have the appealing traits of the govt contractors, but where I wouldn't need a clearance.
Thanks for reading this monster of a post. I figure more data is generally better. :)
I'm hoping that the hive mind can recommend more companies to check out. I'd be grateful for any suggestions!
Here's a throwaway email: hopemefindajob@gmail.com
If you're from a big-name school, your grades are better than mine were, and you want a job that will consume your existence in return for massive $$ and learning, the obvious choice is Goldman-Sachs and its equally elite competitors. Do you want to be a quant?
Maybe also try lists of "best companies to work for"?
I wish there were places that have the appealing traits of the govt contractors, but where I wouldn't need a clearance.
1. You don't need a clearance for entry-level work at some govt contractors
2. In my experience, government contractors have the opposite of the "Google-type working environment"-- everything has a procedure to follow, and a lot of effort is spent making the (stupid) customer happy or meeting the customer's (arbitrary) requirements rather than designing the true best product, because the customer's not smart enough to know what the best is without being told by the contractors' business development teams.
3. This has been my one post-college job, so YMMV
You seem to say "I'm smart; hire me to be smart!" Everyone (in creative fields) wants to do the creative problem solving, and you, as an entry-level dude not knowing the industry, will probably have piles of repetitive/supporting work to do as you learn the industry and the deep background knowledge needed to reliably make valuable insights. So, I'd suggest you look for a position where you can learn an interesting industry, rather than a position with "creative idea guy" in the job description, because the real "creative idea guy leader" jobs, in my experience, are held by people with 10+ years of domain experience. You want to be the apprentice, not the wizard, at this point. But more power to you if you can.
Let me guess...you don't have much "real-world" work experience. Are you getting interviews? Do you know people with interesting jobs you could talk to about what's out there? Do I know you?
The company I think is the coolest now is Willow Garage, a Google-funded robot development company. DEKA is another one. Don't know if your coding background is what they need, though.
Good luck.
posted by sninctown at 10:05 PM on March 4, 2010
Maybe also try lists of "best companies to work for"?
I wish there were places that have the appealing traits of the govt contractors, but where I wouldn't need a clearance.
1. You don't need a clearance for entry-level work at some govt contractors
2. In my experience, government contractors have the opposite of the "Google-type working environment"-- everything has a procedure to follow, and a lot of effort is spent making the (stupid) customer happy or meeting the customer's (arbitrary) requirements rather than designing the true best product, because the customer's not smart enough to know what the best is without being told by the contractors' business development teams.
3. This has been my one post-college job, so YMMV
You seem to say "I'm smart; hire me to be smart!" Everyone (in creative fields) wants to do the creative problem solving, and you, as an entry-level dude not knowing the industry, will probably have piles of repetitive/supporting work to do as you learn the industry and the deep background knowledge needed to reliably make valuable insights. So, I'd suggest you look for a position where you can learn an interesting industry, rather than a position with "creative idea guy" in the job description, because the real "creative idea guy leader" jobs, in my experience, are held by people with 10+ years of domain experience. You want to be the apprentice, not the wizard, at this point. But more power to you if you can.
Let me guess...you don't have much "real-world" work experience. Are you getting interviews? Do you know people with interesting jobs you could talk to about what's out there? Do I know you?
The company I think is the coolest now is Willow Garage, a Google-funded robot development company. DEKA is another one. Don't know if your coding background is what they need, though.
Good luck.
posted by sninctown at 10:05 PM on March 4, 2010
Don't write off the Government. If you're into statistics, public service departments of all kinds have graduate programs for which statistiticans are in very high demand.
And what smoke said.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:09 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
And what smoke said.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 10:09 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
I asked a question really similar to this when I was a new grad (anon) and came off slightly cockier than you, and AskMe kindof tore me a new one. Basically the same response you're getting..."Come back and ask this question when you've actually accomplished something." Now I work at one of the companies on your list, and my husband works at another one, and we're both happy as little clams. This wasn't that long ago, either.
My question to you is, why the heck aren't you working on getting better at programming? That is THE single most efficient way to get your foot in the door at companies where you can be a creative generalist, as far as I know. You say you don't like it, but I got a degree in math too and I guarantee you there's way more to it than what you were exposed to as a math major unless you were in a very CS heavy program. Being a great programmer gives you a lot of power in the job market, and it opens doors and gets you in front of the right people, and you'll be there to look at internal job listings and if something really crazy cool comes up, you'll be first in line to apply for it, and in the meanwhile you're learning tons and working with bright people, so on so forth. You may also find that the more you program, the better you like it.
Memail me, srsly, I can tell you a lot more about a couple of the places you're interested in.
posted by little light-giver at 10:32 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
My question to you is, why the heck aren't you working on getting better at programming? That is THE single most efficient way to get your foot in the door at companies where you can be a creative generalist, as far as I know. You say you don't like it, but I got a degree in math too and I guarantee you there's way more to it than what you were exposed to as a math major unless you were in a very CS heavy program. Being a great programmer gives you a lot of power in the job market, and it opens doors and gets you in front of the right people, and you'll be there to look at internal job listings and if something really crazy cool comes up, you'll be first in line to apply for it, and in the meanwhile you're learning tons and working with bright people, so on so forth. You may also find that the more you program, the better you like it.
Memail me, srsly, I can tell you a lot more about a couple of the places you're interested in.
posted by little light-giver at 10:32 PM on March 4, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mod note: This is a followup from the asker.
A few responses:posted by cortex (staff) at 6:53 AM on March 5, 2010
You guys (ok, mostly smoke) are reacting much differently than the career people at my school did to the same spiel. They were all "ok, hmm, it's unusual not to have an industry in mind. That said, there are plenty of places that employ math people, and don't want those math people to only do dry, repetitive tasks. Off the top of my head, you wouldn't like working at X or Q, you might like Y, you should give Z a go."
I have found job postings that seem like what I'm looking for (including some at the list of companies I gave in the original post). And they're for entry level positions! I'm not asking how I can become the Secretary of Ideas here... I'm just wondering if you guys can help come up with more companies that are like Y and Z. Will you be my Google Sets?
My attitude isn't "I'm smart, hire me!" It's "where can I work to do interesting mathematical problem solving?" Maybe I over emphasized something involving an abstract interest in innovation etc. I didn't mean that I hope to sit in an armchair and speak pearls of human condition altering wisdom. I like analyzing things. I like problem solving. Keep in mind that trying to find x is problem solving.
My post was very abstract, but I hope it's clear that I didn't discuss my experience or qualifications because that's not totally relevant to the question (and there's the anon thing), not because I think they're unimportant or that employers don't care about them.
I'm not saying I'm god's gift to humanity here. It's up to the employers to determine if I'm qualified for any job. I'm certainly not assuming I'll get to work wherever I want, nor am I turning down any interviews! But I still have to find places I want to apply, right? I just want to do something interesting. And I guess the idea is that I wouldn't be so happy trying to sleep at night if I'm contributing to, say, analyzing and optimizing "executive compensation" or insurance premiums vs profit, as opposed to, say, trends in infectious diseases. Or reducing elevator wait times. Or insurance premiums vs profit, but for a progressive think tank. Ok, maybe I'll start out bringing people coffee and/or shit-kicking regardless, but I'd still sleep better at night if the coffee and shit were for people doing the latter kinds of tasks.
Another thing:
Do really I sound that arrogant? I purposely didn't say what I've done or what I think I'm good at! Well, except for the "fast learner" part, but that was in order to convey that I'd be cool with an entry level position in industries in which I don't have tons of training, if places are ok with that sort of thing. Also, the "so many possibilities..." wasn't to imply that I'm awesome at everything; it was because I'm interested in many industries/fields, which makes this search kind of tough.
I feel like I should address this:
"Remember: you're a graduate; you will not be writing policies, have program responsibility, see your name in lights. Regardless of industry or vocation, you will most likely be a glorified shit-kicker doing a job that someone without your education could easily do with a month or two's training. That is okay. We're doing baby steps here."
What a strange thing to say. Yes, I am aware that my entry level job will be an entry level job. Indeed, no policies or lights. But the rest? I don't think my school teaches special secret industry math that gives you a two month advantage; I imagine I'd need the same training as any hired/qualified math major. I addressed the shit kicking above.
sninctown:
What you say makes a lot of sense. I guess I just want the chance to innovate. Even if I'm doing repetitive/supporting work, if I said "hey, wait, what if we did it this way?!" it would be nice if I were allowed to try it. Or if it lead to a conversation about why it's not such a great idea, or suggestions about what I could look into if I want to try something similar in the future, whether it's tomorrow, once this part of the project is done, or once I'm no longer a shit-kicker. It would be *not* nice if I were told to shut up, keep crunching those numbers, and make some more coffee already. You know what I mean? Actually, that might be the best and/or most realistic summary of what I'm looking for in a company/environment.
I have a bit of real world experience. I am getting interviews (but the job search process has just started). I know a few people with interesting jobs (some contributed to the list of places I gave). I don't know if we know each other :)
little light-giver:
Very cool about you and your husband. I just might take you up on that mail. Thanks!
Thanks for the suggestions so far, and any to come!
Mod note: tinytext comment removed - please send asides to the OP via the email address they have provided, thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:05 AM on March 5, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:05 AM on March 5, 2010
Insurance and Reinsurance may be a good fit ( Actuaries and Underwriters ). Plenty of math and creativity involved when determining a new line of business. These guys are calculating the likelihood that someone will have 5 days of good weather on their 7 day vacation, or whether or not Florida will have a good orange growing season.
Just remember, this is an employer's market right now, especially for people just out of college. I would take what you can get. And getting that will more likely come from a interpersonal connection and not a blind application into the blackhole of HR.
posted by jasondigitized at 10:48 AM on March 5, 2010
Just remember, this is an employer's market right now, especially for people just out of college. I would take what you can get. And getting that will more likely come from a interpersonal connection and not a blind application into the blackhole of HR.
posted by jasondigitized at 10:48 AM on March 5, 2010
If you can stand the consultant lifestyle -- 90% travel, etc. -- I found IBM Global Business Services has an ethos that matches pretty closely what you seek. They are very much into innovation and novel solutions and they draw from many different disciplines to help a client. And as a consultant you get to work on a wide variety of problems with a wide variety of clients. I very much enjoyed working for them but, as a family man with four children, could not handle the lifestyle needed to truly succeed there. Since you are a recent graduate, you are cheap and probably have fewer encumbrances. They pay well, but they work you hard. Luckily the work can be pretty interesting.
But they are also about billable hours, so they also will be looking for your applied skills they can sell to clients. So list stuff like Matlab and any projects, applied techniques, etc. over general problem solving skills. Also, language skills give you a leg up, especially if you can help with projects involving the BRIC countries.
Here's a recruiter's slideshow directed at new grads. He may be a good source of advice about how to get hired there.
posted by cross_impact at 2:42 PM on March 5, 2010
But they are also about billable hours, so they also will be looking for your applied skills they can sell to clients. So list stuff like Matlab and any projects, applied techniques, etc. over general problem solving skills. Also, language skills give you a leg up, especially if you can help with projects involving the BRIC countries.
Here's a recruiter's slideshow directed at new grads. He may be a good source of advice about how to get hired there.
posted by cross_impact at 2:42 PM on March 5, 2010
You sound quite like the type of person Epic hires. Check them out.
posted by sulaine at 2:45 PM on March 5, 2010
posted by sulaine at 2:45 PM on March 5, 2010
Original poster - I'm just a dude on the internet; please don't feel obliged to listen to my opinion or defend against it. I'm not interviewing you, I don't know you, I only responded to what I read in the post. It's entirely possible I'm 100% wrong about you and your motivations, and I would hate to think I was upsetting you with what I wrote.
This said, I still think you're being a bit naive.
it would be nice if I were allowed to try it. Or if it lead to a conversation about why it's not such a great idea, or suggestions about what I could look into if I want to try something similar in the future, whether it's tomorrow, once this part of the project is done, or once I'm no longer a shit-kicker. It would be *not* nice if I were told to shut up, keep crunching those numbers, and make some more coffee already
If this is what you're looking for, I would focus on small business/small organisations (maybe NGO or something; that will fit your definition). You will have much more autonomy (and much less pay, natch) working for small, close-knit groups. Finding a good fit will be more challenging, and you may find once there the opportunities for promotion and professional development are limited. But what you get on-the-job could very well make up for it.
cross-impact's suggestion of Global Business Services in IBM has some merit. I actually work for IBM myself currently. They have a very well developed grad-program, the company is doing some amazing things, and innovation is a big part of how the company represents itself and what it develops/sells/etc. My own personal experience in IBM is that if you have a good, sensible idea, you can push it up the line surprisingly far. Like any big organisation, it is political; you will need to pick your battles wisely and with discretion, and there is some mind-numbing process and bureaucracy at times. A company this size does not have the agility to move quickly.
HOWEVER, I really want to highlight this: You are gonna be told to shut up and make the coffee/crunch the numbers much of the time in virtually any job you take. Accept this as fact.. You are a graduate, you are just a kid. You think you're a special snowflake, but you're not. 90% of the ideas you have will already have been had by someone else smarter and more experienced than you, or your ideas will be ignorant of context, or politically not be feasible, or your manager won't take them seriously purely because they come from you. 10% may be golden, but 90% of the time it's not gonna happen.
Do you think there's a queue of people out there looking for jobs where they just make the coffee and crunch the numbers? You think people like boring, un-challenging, un-innovative work? And yet, those jobs are filled with people who are smart, interesting and innovative themselves. They take those jobs because they have an eye on the eventual prize of a job they want. Because they like the money that comes with a 'boring' job. Because they cannot "beat" other people at getting the interesting jobs who have more experience, more accolades, more connections.
I'm harping on about this because I have seen way too many grads come into teams as Young Turks going to change the world, and spiral into depression, ineffectuality, anger, frustration, blaming themselves, blaming their employers, their hapless teams or managers, the world at large. They end up with a toxic attitude that they're too good for any job, or conversely, not good enough for any, and it's a tragedy seeing so much talent and goodwill go down the drain.
The graduates that succeeded are the ones that come to learn, not to teach. They are confident enough to put their ideas out there, but also to take the criticism, accept when the idea is good but execution isn't feasible, or even to execute but accept when a project has to be abandoned halfway through or that they have fucked up execution.
They are also confident enough to shut up and crunch the numbers when they are asked/told to, and accept that many people on their team are smarter, more experienced and better than them at doing the job. Or simply - even if the team member is actually dumb/incompetent - that the team members get paid more, and thus get to work on more valuable things to make efficient use of time and money. Successful graduates accept that a degree demonstrates they can learn, and may have given them some softish skills, but now they are journeymen, with much still to learn - about working and work-life which is very different - indeed arguably completely opposite - from the higher education institutions they have come from.
I'm not trying to harsh your buzz here, and I'm certainly not saying you can't find interesting, fulfilling work as a graduate. But I'm just advising a more cautious approach: you may feel like you have something special to offer, but there are thousands of people exactly like you looking for jobs (these jobs) at the moment. It won't be ideas or smarts that separates you from them, it will be a proven track record and an obvious, demonstrated and attractive willingness to work and learn. I would hate to see a fellow mefite fall by the wayside because of high expectations. Again, I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything like that. You sound like a nice, interesting person. And best of luck with the search.
posted by smoke at 3:33 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
This said, I still think you're being a bit naive.
it would be nice if I were allowed to try it. Or if it lead to a conversation about why it's not such a great idea, or suggestions about what I could look into if I want to try something similar in the future, whether it's tomorrow, once this part of the project is done, or once I'm no longer a shit-kicker. It would be *not* nice if I were told to shut up, keep crunching those numbers, and make some more coffee already
If this is what you're looking for, I would focus on small business/small organisations (maybe NGO or something; that will fit your definition). You will have much more autonomy (and much less pay, natch) working for small, close-knit groups. Finding a good fit will be more challenging, and you may find once there the opportunities for promotion and professional development are limited. But what you get on-the-job could very well make up for it.
cross-impact's suggestion of Global Business Services in IBM has some merit. I actually work for IBM myself currently. They have a very well developed grad-program, the company is doing some amazing things, and innovation is a big part of how the company represents itself and what it develops/sells/etc. My own personal experience in IBM is that if you have a good, sensible idea, you can push it up the line surprisingly far. Like any big organisation, it is political; you will need to pick your battles wisely and with discretion, and there is some mind-numbing process and bureaucracy at times. A company this size does not have the agility to move quickly.
HOWEVER, I really want to highlight this: You are gonna be told to shut up and make the coffee/crunch the numbers much of the time in virtually any job you take. Accept this as fact.. You are a graduate, you are just a kid. You think you're a special snowflake, but you're not. 90% of the ideas you have will already have been had by someone else smarter and more experienced than you, or your ideas will be ignorant of context, or politically not be feasible, or your manager won't take them seriously purely because they come from you. 10% may be golden, but 90% of the time it's not gonna happen.
Do you think there's a queue of people out there looking for jobs where they just make the coffee and crunch the numbers? You think people like boring, un-challenging, un-innovative work? And yet, those jobs are filled with people who are smart, interesting and innovative themselves. They take those jobs because they have an eye on the eventual prize of a job they want. Because they like the money that comes with a 'boring' job. Because they cannot "beat" other people at getting the interesting jobs who have more experience, more accolades, more connections.
I'm harping on about this because I have seen way too many grads come into teams as Young Turks going to change the world, and spiral into depression, ineffectuality, anger, frustration, blaming themselves, blaming their employers, their hapless teams or managers, the world at large. They end up with a toxic attitude that they're too good for any job, or conversely, not good enough for any, and it's a tragedy seeing so much talent and goodwill go down the drain.
The graduates that succeeded are the ones that come to learn, not to teach. They are confident enough to put their ideas out there, but also to take the criticism, accept when the idea is good but execution isn't feasible, or even to execute but accept when a project has to be abandoned halfway through or that they have fucked up execution.
They are also confident enough to shut up and crunch the numbers when they are asked/told to, and accept that many people on their team are smarter, more experienced and better than them at doing the job. Or simply - even if the team member is actually dumb/incompetent - that the team members get paid more, and thus get to work on more valuable things to make efficient use of time and money. Successful graduates accept that a degree demonstrates they can learn, and may have given them some softish skills, but now they are journeymen, with much still to learn - about working and work-life which is very different - indeed arguably completely opposite - from the higher education institutions they have come from.
I'm not trying to harsh your buzz here, and I'm certainly not saying you can't find interesting, fulfilling work as a graduate. But I'm just advising a more cautious approach: you may feel like you have something special to offer, but there are thousands of people exactly like you looking for jobs (these jobs) at the moment. It won't be ideas or smarts that separates you from them, it will be a proven track record and an obvious, demonstrated and attractive willingness to work and learn. I would hate to see a fellow mefite fall by the wayside because of high expectations. Again, I'm not saying you're a bad person or anything like that. You sound like a nice, interesting person. And best of luck with the search.
posted by smoke at 3:33 PM on March 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
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There are two options here, with a myriad of waypoints in-between. Finding a job vs finding the job. Unless you have a lot of money in the bank and free time, I feel you're tilting a little too heavily towards the latter end of the spectrum at the moment. You're a graduate. People spend decades working, learning etc to get the job. A good start - as opposed to a good job - is totally acceptable, if not de rigueur.
Look at what your education and extra-curricular work qualifies you to do in _hard_ skills. Not "I think I could have a crack at blahblah", but "I have done blahlbah many times in the last few years, in x ways, achieving y results." Thinking does not qualify, only what thinking produces. Results you can see, touch, read, etc are what I'm talking about here. Look for jobs that utilise those skill/s across a range of industries (if said skills stretche across a range of industries).
Then, you have a choice:
1. Take a role that may not be the exact vocation/skillset you want in an industry that fascinates you, with a goal of moving towards that vocation you want in said industry.
2. Take a role that is vocationally/skillset-illy in the career direction you want, but perhaps not in an industry/organisation that rocks your world completely.
Remember: you're a graduate; you will not be writing policies, have program responsibility, see your name in lights. Regardless of industry or vocation, you will most likely be a glorified shit-kicker doing a job that someone without your education could easily do with a month or two's training. That is okay. We're doing baby steps here.
Also, my many many different jobs of the years have taught me that team you work with on a day-to-day basis are exponentially more important that the organisation you work for, or even what exactly it is that you're doing. Do all you can to get a feel of the team, and especially your manager. Bullshit always flows straight down.
Now, you could be some kind of wunderkind prodigy with a straight A average, a cv that reads like printed crack and experience that makes Madeleine Albright look like a first year intern, in which case this advice is bunk, go forth and conquer! But my experience - as a graduate once, interviewing graduates, working with graduates, and seeing them quit or blossom - is that whilst the aforementioned belief is very common, the actual presence of those qualities is not quite so common. Worry more about if they are interested in you, than vice vera. Also, you can always go to an interview; it will keep your interview skills sharp, give you a better sense of different orgs, and you may be surprised by what jobs look much better in person than on paper. Good luck.
posted by smoke at 9:52 PM on March 4, 2010 [6 favorites]