Your fraternity has a chef? Are you kidding me?
December 21, 2009 10:31 AM Subscribe
Did your fraternity / sorority have a full-time chef? Is this as common as my wife thinks? Read on...
http://fraternitykitchen.net/ is the blog of a University of Washington fraternity chef.
I was gobsmacked. The frat house employs a full-time chef? And while we're not talking about a cheap diploma mill, neither are we talking about the Ivy League.
Neither my wife, who attended a Big 10 school, nor myself, who attended a piss-ant California state college, were in the Greek system. But my wife was completely unsurprised when she learned this. Of course they would have one, she said. It makes a lot of sense. Would you want a bunch of 20-year-old guys in charge of your kitchen? Can you imagine what you would find growing in that fridge?
* Is this common?
* Do you have first-hand experience?
* Is this paid-for by ongoing fraternity/sorority dues? Or is this the kind of luxury that gets handled by donations from wealthy alumni?
* How in the hell would this kind of thing get started? I just can't imagine a bunch of average frat boys sitting around thinking, "We really need to focus on our studies, so we should take some of the beer money and get a chef, so we don't have to worry about this."
http://fraternitykitchen.net/ is the blog of a University of Washington fraternity chef.
I was gobsmacked. The frat house employs a full-time chef? And while we're not talking about a cheap diploma mill, neither are we talking about the Ivy League.
Neither my wife, who attended a Big 10 school, nor myself, who attended a piss-ant California state college, were in the Greek system. But my wife was completely unsurprised when she learned this. Of course they would have one, she said. It makes a lot of sense. Would you want a bunch of 20-year-old guys in charge of your kitchen? Can you imagine what you would find growing in that fridge?
* Is this common?
* Do you have first-hand experience?
* Is this paid-for by ongoing fraternity/sorority dues? Or is this the kind of luxury that gets handled by donations from wealthy alumni?
* How in the hell would this kind of thing get started? I just can't imagine a bunch of average frat boys sitting around thinking, "We really need to focus on our studies, so we should take some of the beer money and get a chef, so we don't have to worry about this."
Its the standard here. All University houses (houses that are for undergrads and owned by the university) that aren't explicitly co-ops have chefs. Usually frats have better ones because they're willing to pay a bit more for it. Some of it's covered by dues, some of it's covered by donations. No clue how it started.
posted by devilsbrigade at 10:36 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by devilsbrigade at 10:36 AM on December 21, 2009
(and just so I'm not Greek life-bashing: my sister's sorority, at another Southern school, has neither a cook nor a house to cook in, and is really more of a service/social life organization)
posted by oinopaponton at 10:37 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by oinopaponton at 10:37 AM on December 21, 2009
I know a full-time chef at a sorority house at MIZZOU in Columbia, MO.
posted by nitsuj at 10:37 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by nitsuj at 10:37 AM on December 21, 2009
All the frats that I ever heard of at my Missouri state school had full time chefs and cleaning services.
posted by Babblesort at 10:37 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by Babblesort at 10:37 AM on December 21, 2009
I went to a small, rural, private liberal arts college, where the only opportunity to live out of the dorms was to live in a fraternity/sorority house or one of the club/group houses.
None of our "houses" had chefs, but I understand the point: If the kids who are living in the frat house are paying room and board to the fraternity, they're probably not eating in the school's cafeterias. The chef is probably accountable for providing meals for the house residents, just as the school's food service workers are responsible for providing meals for the kids who live in the dorms. That said, it's probably paid for by the room and board payments to the fraternity, rather than a donor or the college.
The chef is probably an outgrowth of the "House Mother" position- I think "Mrs. Boothbie," the house mother for my frat 20 years before I was a member, was responsible for keeping the dudes in line, but also making them three squares a day.
posted by elmer benson at 10:38 AM on December 21, 2009
None of our "houses" had chefs, but I understand the point: If the kids who are living in the frat house are paying room and board to the fraternity, they're probably not eating in the school's cafeterias. The chef is probably accountable for providing meals for the house residents, just as the school's food service workers are responsible for providing meals for the kids who live in the dorms. That said, it's probably paid for by the room and board payments to the fraternity, rather than a donor or the college.
The chef is probably an outgrowth of the "House Mother" position- I think "Mrs. Boothbie," the house mother for my frat 20 years before I was a member, was responsible for keeping the dudes in line, but also making them three squares a day.
posted by elmer benson at 10:38 AM on December 21, 2009
Common.
posted by jeffamaphone at 10:40 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by jeffamaphone at 10:40 AM on December 21, 2009
My best friend's mom has been a chef at several sororities, mostly at a college with fewer than 3,000 students. The reason is that the sorority houses are technically off-campus, so if you live in one, you're not eligible for the college meal plan. Hiring her ended up being about the same price (because food could be bought in bulk) and significantly less hassle than having 50 girls all trying to cook for themselves. It was paid for by their dues.
posted by decathecting at 10:40 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by decathecting at 10:40 AM on December 21, 2009
My eating house (which was my school's version of sorority, since we didn't have them) did employ a chef. We shared her with another house, but before that she had been the other house's chef for a long time.
I think whether it's standard depends upon what the perks of membership are supposed to be. For our organizations, providing a meal plan alternative to the dining hall was one of the major perks. (Particularly becuase no one lived in our houses; they were strictly social and service organizations.)
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:42 AM on December 21, 2009
I think whether it's standard depends upon what the perks of membership are supposed to be. For our organizations, providing a meal plan alternative to the dining hall was one of the major perks. (Particularly becuase no one lived in our houses; they were strictly social and service organizations.)
posted by Medieval Maven at 10:42 AM on December 21, 2009
Medium sized southern private school
No chef at my house, but a few did. Particularly the "good ol boy" southern houses (SAE, KA, etc)
posted by jckll at 10:42 AM on December 21, 2009
No chef at my house, but a few did. Particularly the "good ol boy" southern houses (SAE, KA, etc)
posted by jckll at 10:42 AM on December 21, 2009
We did @ NIU back in the 70's. A matronly grandmother who made the best pot brownies on the planet.
posted by torquemaniac at 10:42 AM on December 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by torquemaniac at 10:42 AM on December 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
My grandfather was the chef at his frat. It's how he paid for school.
posted by amro at 10:44 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by amro at 10:44 AM on December 21, 2009
Response by poster: I'm flabbergasted. Clearly, I should have studied harder in high school and gone to a better school. ;-)
Thank you for the fast reality-check responses.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:48 AM on December 21, 2009
Thank you for the fast reality-check responses.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:48 AM on December 21, 2009
How in the hell would this kind of thing get started? I just can't imagine a bunch of average frat boys sitting around thinking, "We really need to focus on our studies, so we should take some of the beer money and get a chef, so we don't have to worry about this."
Well, someone is managing to pay property taxes on that big ol' house, right? Those dues they pay every semester are FOR something. Taxes, groundskeeping, bills, etc etc. Frat guys may be a little... eh... but they're not literally cavemen.
A friend of mine lives in a sorority house with a chef. But the thing is, the house has like 50 girls living in it, with at least 50 more members who live off-site but come there to eat all the time. It's not just, like, 20 people living in a house, it's a huge organization.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:52 AM on December 21, 2009
Well, someone is managing to pay property taxes on that big ol' house, right? Those dues they pay every semester are FOR something. Taxes, groundskeeping, bills, etc etc. Frat guys may be a little... eh... but they're not literally cavemen.
A friend of mine lives in a sorority house with a chef. But the thing is, the house has like 50 girls living in it, with at least 50 more members who live off-site but come there to eat all the time. It's not just, like, 20 people living in a house, it's a huge organization.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:52 AM on December 21, 2009
My experiences at large, Southern, schools (my own and that of friends and relatives) has been that the larger frat/soro have chefs and/or kitchen staffs. Also, the larger sororities have guys from the neighboring frat houses come, in jacket and dress pants, every meal to serve them, clean up, etc. The guys are lining up to be that close to the girls and then the girls don't have to pay for it or do it themselves.
posted by pearlybob at 10:53 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by pearlybob at 10:53 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Python-spouting nerdy house at UVa, 88-92.
Full time chef? No.
Part time poorly paid cook? Yeah. Series of 'em, owing to the "poorly paid" part.
Paid for, in full, by a meal plan. Required of everyone who didn't have a good reason not to be on it (ie, allergies, keep kosher or halal); cost less than the university's plans.
I just can't imagine a bunch of average frat boys sitting around thinking, "We really need to focus on our studies, so we should take some of the beer money and get a chef, so we don't have to worry about this."
Frat house != FRAT HOUSE ANIMAL HOUSE TOGA TOGA TOGA. In mine, both I and the guy across the hall got NSF graduate fellowships in the social sciences, and the place was lousy with echols and rodman scholars (regular and engineering sort-of-honors programs).
On preview: you shouldn't be flabbergasted. 40--150 people can easily pool together and get a substantially better deal than the university's meal plans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:58 AM on December 21, 2009
Full time chef? No.
Part time poorly paid cook? Yeah. Series of 'em, owing to the "poorly paid" part.
Paid for, in full, by a meal plan. Required of everyone who didn't have a good reason not to be on it (ie, allergies, keep kosher or halal); cost less than the university's plans.
I just can't imagine a bunch of average frat boys sitting around thinking, "We really need to focus on our studies, so we should take some of the beer money and get a chef, so we don't have to worry about this."
Frat house != FRAT HOUSE ANIMAL HOUSE TOGA TOGA TOGA. In mine, both I and the guy across the hall got NSF graduate fellowships in the social sciences, and the place was lousy with echols and rodman scholars (regular and engineering sort-of-honors programs).
On preview: you shouldn't be flabbergasted. 40--150 people can easily pool together and get a substantially better deal than the university's meal plans.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 10:58 AM on December 21, 2009
I lived in a house explicitly for exchange students and those taking the dual-degree foreign language and engineering program at my university, and we also had a chef. He worked in a country club over the summer but he preferred the way we treated him, and eventually started working there year round. The guy worked ridiculous hours. He was always in the house at least as early as 6:00 AM and didn't leave until after dinner, which was at 7PM.
posted by mkb at 10:58 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by mkb at 10:58 AM on December 21, 2009
The university I went to didn't allow sororities to live off-campus when I was there. The fraternities had "house mothers" who cooked, cleaned the kitchen, and doled out chores to the brothers. At the time, it was a mid-sized, well-respected, midwestern university. It's much bigger now, so things might be different.
posted by cooker girl at 11:01 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by cooker girl at 11:01 AM on December 21, 2009
We didn't have a full-time chef, just someone who would show up at dinner, cook, and scoot. It was paid for out of a fee charged to in-house brothers for a meal-plan. I remember that some other houses on campus had similar arrangements. This was U Penn.
posted by Doctor Suarez at 11:04 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by Doctor Suarez at 11:04 AM on December 21, 2009
Best answer: It's common depending upon the university and the size of the fraternities/sororities there, along with the housing arrangements. What everyone else said is pretty much true...if the organization is big enough, with enough members living in/paying house fees, they can easily afford a chef/cook and take their meals in the house instead of purchasing a meal plan from the university. Sometimes it's just the house mom/house dad doing everything (for smaller houses), sometimes there is a kitchen staff.
In a majority of the cases, "dues" (a membership fee that every member pays) goes toward the chapter operating expenses. "Rent/Room and Board/House Fees" goes toward operating the house (everything from cooks to maintenance to taxes to upkeep to redecorating, etc). Some chapters charge a small house fee, and then charge room and board to only those who are living/eating there, some don't charge a house fee and cover all of the expenses only from the rent they charge people to live there. It's not necessarily about the size/status of the university, but the size/function of the organizations at that university.
posted by MultiFaceted at 11:10 AM on December 21, 2009
In a majority of the cases, "dues" (a membership fee that every member pays) goes toward the chapter operating expenses. "Rent/Room and Board/House Fees" goes toward operating the house (everything from cooks to maintenance to taxes to upkeep to redecorating, etc). Some chapters charge a small house fee, and then charge room and board to only those who are living/eating there, some don't charge a house fee and cover all of the expenses only from the rent they charge people to live there. It's not necessarily about the size/status of the university, but the size/function of the organizations at that university.
posted by MultiFaceted at 11:10 AM on December 21, 2009
We had a series of cooks through the years, most memorably the meth-addicted one who would stay up for weeks at a time.
posted by cusack at 11:11 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by cusack at 11:11 AM on December 21, 2009
The one I was a member of in the middle 90s had a cook and a house mother and employed several "house boys" though these boys were sometimes girls. The cook cooked dinners nightly with a very special dinner on Monday nights and, when we were flush with members, had two or three "house boys" with white coats who would serve and clear plates. Monday night was the all-house meeting. There were usually cold cuts or leftovers set out for lunch or if the girls wanted to BBQ in the summer, we could request burgers and buns and fixins.
Breakfast was usually a serve-yourself affair with bulk cereal, bagels or toast, juices, milk and coffee. We were absolutely not allowed in the kitchen to cook for ourselves so there was a kitchenette with microwave and fridge but no real cooking facilities. Occasionally, we would break into the kitchen in the middle of the night and put together a drunken and/or study-addled feast.
We also had a cleaner for major cleaning (vacuuming/bathrooms) but we all had chores, too. I can't remember how many live-ins we had. At the height, probably around 60 with another couple dozen living out.
Our house mothers were always insane. You'd have to be.
posted by amanda at 11:12 AM on December 21, 2009
Breakfast was usually a serve-yourself affair with bulk cereal, bagels or toast, juices, milk and coffee. We were absolutely not allowed in the kitchen to cook for ourselves so there was a kitchenette with microwave and fridge but no real cooking facilities. Occasionally, we would break into the kitchen in the middle of the night and put together a drunken and/or study-addled feast.
We also had a cleaner for major cleaning (vacuuming/bathrooms) but we all had chores, too. I can't remember how many live-ins we had. At the height, probably around 60 with another couple dozen living out.
Our house mothers were always insane. You'd have to be.
posted by amanda at 11:12 AM on December 21, 2009
They're not always "chefs", so much as "cooks." In a house of 20-30 people, it really makes sense to centralize food preparation. I was not in a sorority but the dorms I lived in all had food service and some of them weren't that much bigger than a large sorority.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 11:18 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by otherwordlyglow at 11:18 AM on December 21, 2009
At LSU in the late 90's, most of the larger houses had full-time staff, including chefs/cooks.
posted by tryniti at 11:18 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by tryniti at 11:18 AM on December 21, 2009
Are you kidding? Getting a bunch of college frat guys to cook AND clean up after themselves? Yeah, my friend's fraternity had a "cook", rather than a chef.
posted by Melismata at 11:25 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by Melismata at 11:25 AM on December 21, 2009
As of last year, every Frat and sorority on campus as my college had a chef who cooked 5 lunches and 5 dinners a week, as well as provided a continental breakfast.
posted by irishcoffee at 11:26 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by irishcoffee at 11:26 AM on December 21, 2009
My husband's fraternity had a cook for dinner. They cleaned the house themselves. Another friend's fraternity (at the same school) handled cleaning communally but had no cook and individually made food. This was at a small, Midwestern engineering college.
Some of my high school friends went to University of Washington, and their sorority had a full-time cook and busboys, even.
I graduated in 2007.
posted by bookdragoness at 11:29 AM on December 21, 2009
Some of my high school friends went to University of Washington, and their sorority had a full-time cook and busboys, even.
I graduated in 2007.
posted by bookdragoness at 11:29 AM on December 21, 2009
Best answer: At my (Ivy League) school (graduated 2007), frats and sororities don't have houses, but we do have co-ed "eating clubs," each of which has its own kitchen staff for all mealtimes. I believe about 70% of the student body joins one for junior and senior year (you have to be in a residential college and use that meal plan your first two years).
As to how it got started, as I heard it, around 15 guys around 130 years ago were kicked out of the dining hall for being too rowdy. This being my school 130 years ago, they were naturally collectively rich enough to install themselves in their own mansion and hire a cook. Everything else evolved from there. Now each club has around 125-200 members apiece, and only officers live there instead of in dorms.
posted by ilana at 11:39 AM on December 21, 2009
As to how it got started, as I heard it, around 15 guys around 130 years ago were kicked out of the dining hall for being too rowdy. This being my school 130 years ago, they were naturally collectively rich enough to install themselves in their own mansion and hire a cook. Everything else evolved from there. Now each club has around 125-200 members apiece, and only officers live there instead of in dorms.
posted by ilana at 11:39 AM on December 21, 2009
Early 80's UVa. We had a chef. She cooked lunch and dinner 5 days. If you were nice to her, she might make you some eggs for breakfast as she was prepping for the day. It was cheaper to eat on the fraternity meal plan than the university one. I also was a server at a sorority for a semester. They had a pretty good chef. I served and cleared in exchange for meals and, well..., as it turns out, phone numbers. Our chef told stories of working as Ted Kennedy's personal chef when he went to law school at UVa. She would say, "That Kennedy boy would call me at all hours of the night when he was entertaining his lady friends. Don't know how that boy ever did any work." I guess he never amounted to much. Woulda been President like his brother if he had only laid off the food and ladies.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:42 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:42 AM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
None of the Frats or sororities at my school (small, public, southeastern) had any sort of staff, the frat kitchens were tiny and disgusting and as a result most members had meal plans and ate at the dining halls.
posted by ghharr at 11:43 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by ghharr at 11:43 AM on December 21, 2009
Do understand that the title "chef" used here is resume-padding. If you are in charge of preparing meals for one college dorm (which is what a fraternity or sorority house is, in essence) most people in the food industry would consider you a "cook".
But colleges and universities are great places for title inflation.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:46 AM on December 21, 2009
But colleges and universities are great places for title inflation.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:46 AM on December 21, 2009
My parents met when my mother was the chef at my father's fraternity house at MIT in the late 70s/early 80s. He used to volunteer to clean out the fryolator, wink wink.
posted by kelseyq at 11:46 AM on December 21, 2009
posted by kelseyq at 11:46 AM on December 21, 2009
Best answer: Graduated in 2007, alumni of a national social Greek sorority.
National Greek social sororityies and fraternities include house cooks in their budget, which they get from dues that each member pays. Typically, when you join, you are obligated to live in the house if they need someone to fill it. When I visited other chapters of my sorority, which were always much larger than my own chapter, they all had cooks and housemoms that cleaned the house and sometimes enforced rules (like if there was a mandatory study night or something). This is the norm.
However, the school I went to did not support social Greek life and so we were not allowed to have an "official" house and we got no recognition on campus. We basically got the shit end of the stick because our dues were the same as everyone else's, but didn't go towards our rent or a personal cook.
posted by WeekendJen at 11:47 AM on December 21, 2009
National Greek social sororityies and fraternities include house cooks in their budget, which they get from dues that each member pays. Typically, when you join, you are obligated to live in the house if they need someone to fill it. When I visited other chapters of my sorority, which were always much larger than my own chapter, they all had cooks and housemoms that cleaned the house and sometimes enforced rules (like if there was a mandatory study night or something). This is the norm.
However, the school I went to did not support social Greek life and so we were not allowed to have an "official" house and we got no recognition on campus. We basically got the shit end of the stick because our dues were the same as everyone else's, but didn't go towards our rent or a personal cook.
posted by WeekendJen at 11:47 AM on December 21, 2009
Response by poster: This being my school 130 years ago, they were naturally collectively rich enough to install themselves in their own mansion and hire a cook. Everything else evolved from there.
A-ha! Being a non-Greek, it didn't occur to me that some of these organizations are 100+ years old, when attending a university was something only the elite did, and for those folks, it would have been de rigueur to have various household servants. And then by a combination of "house mother" tradition and sheer convenience, the concept carries forward to today.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:56 AM on December 21, 2009
A-ha! Being a non-Greek, it didn't occur to me that some of these organizations are 100+ years old, when attending a university was something only the elite did, and for those folks, it would have been de rigueur to have various household servants. And then by a combination of "house mother" tradition and sheer convenience, the concept carries forward to today.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:56 AM on December 21, 2009
Big Ten school. It seemed most of the fraternities had a cook/housemother of some sort. There were also usually several brothers who worked off part of the house dues as prep cooks, dishwashers, etc. Daily bathroom cleaning was often handled on a rotation basis. That actually worked well since you don't leave filth if you know you're turn to clean is coming. House common areas were cleaned by pledges or whomever the housemom could browbeat into it.
Sororities didn't have houses, but had dedicated areas within the dorms.
posted by 26.2 at 12:03 PM on December 21, 2009
Sororities didn't have houses, but had dedicated areas within the dorms.
posted by 26.2 at 12:03 PM on December 21, 2009
We had a part time cook (late 80s). She would come in around 10 AM, prepare and serve lunch Monday - Friday, and get dinner ready / in the oven and leave around 4. We would do the rest. She was an older lady, a widow, really quite nice as long as we kept the kitchen clean. If she came in to a trashed kitchen she got the day off, with pay.
posted by COD at 12:08 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by COD at 12:08 PM on December 21, 2009
At Lehigh in the 70's all the 30+ fraternities had cooks who prepared lunch and dinner six days a week. On Sundays, you were on your own. Our cook Ruth was the salt of the earth and had to put up with a lot of assholes ( myself included ).
posted by digsrus at 12:12 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by digsrus at 12:12 PM on December 21, 2009
There was actually a front page post about this in Sept. The cook makes $10/hour so as others have said it is not like you have a Cordon Bleu badged chef.
PS For a friend as a gift once, a couple of us got together and got her a private cook for a month. It wasn't that expensive, at least when we all split the tab and only did it for a month (I think it came out to like $200 week + groceries). The chef would come out once a week, go over a menu and cook everything for a given week, up until the point where you have to stick it in the oven to reheat. We did the math and it was roughly comparable to take out at a nicer restaurant every night.
It was explained to us by the chef that her services are what was meant when people drop that they have a "private chef" and that practically no one has an actual, live-in chef.
posted by geoff. at 12:14 PM on December 21, 2009
PS For a friend as a gift once, a couple of us got together and got her a private cook for a month. It wasn't that expensive, at least when we all split the tab and only did it for a month (I think it came out to like $200 week + groceries). The chef would come out once a week, go over a menu and cook everything for a given week, up until the point where you have to stick it in the oven to reheat. We did the math and it was roughly comparable to take out at a nicer restaurant every night.
It was explained to us by the chef that her services are what was meant when people drop that they have a "private chef" and that practically no one has an actual, live-in chef.
posted by geoff. at 12:14 PM on December 21, 2009
I lived in a co-ed frat at Wesleyan Univ (Eclectic Society/Phi Nu Theta). We had a kitchen but it had been, uh, condemned. I suppose that all came with a cook too, as I can't imagine members of the society doing their own cooking. We supposedly had nice furniture and rugs and stuff too at one point. All before my time ('93-'96). I made do with a toaster oven and a hot plate in my room. Sigh.
posted by medeine at 12:25 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by medeine at 12:25 PM on December 21, 2009
Wow, I had no idea this was a common thing. None of the fraternities at my school had such a thing that I know of (but then, all the frat/sorority houses were on campus right among the dorm buildings, so that might have something to do with it.)
posted by usonian at 12:41 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by usonian at 12:41 PM on December 21, 2009
My sorority house at the University of Oklahoma (2000-2004) had both a housemom, who did general house/property management, and a cook. Our cook reported to our housemom and had his own staff; one PT assistant and a group of what we called "houseboys" who did some prep and post-meal cleanup.
We got a full breakfast and lunch Monday-Friday and dinner Sunday-Thursday, paid for as part of our live-in fees.
posted by ThatSomething at 1:00 PM on December 21, 2009
We got a full breakfast and lunch Monday-Friday and dinner Sunday-Thursday, paid for as part of our live-in fees.
posted by ThatSomething at 1:00 PM on December 21, 2009
We barely had a house, much less a place to cook in it, much less a cook to run it.
posted by deezil at 1:19 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by deezil at 1:19 PM on December 21, 2009
Being a non-Greek, it didn't occur to me that some of these organizations are 100+ years old, when attending a university was something only the elite did, and for those folks, it would have been de rigueur to have various household servants. And then by a combination of "house mother" tradition and sheer convenience, the concept carries forward to today.
I don't know why you persist in thinking of this as a weird luxury akin to having personal servants, when more than one person has told you that the fees can be cheaper than the university's meal plans. It's not a weird elitist servile thing, it is (or can be) simple good sense, combined with the chance to break bread with your friends on regular basis.
This is part of why if you compared to using university facilities, the total cost of membership in the fraternity I joined was negative.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:22 PM on December 21, 2009
I don't know why you persist in thinking of this as a weird luxury akin to having personal servants, when more than one person has told you that the fees can be cheaper than the university's meal plans. It's not a weird elitist servile thing, it is (or can be) simple good sense, combined with the chance to break bread with your friends on regular basis.
This is part of why if you compared to using university facilities, the total cost of membership in the fraternity I joined was negative.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 1:22 PM on December 21, 2009
I don't know why you persist in thinking of this as a weird luxury akin to having personal servants, when more than one person has told you that the fees can be cheaper than the university's meal plans
I agree! Obviously, the cafeterias and dining halls of a college and university have cooks--why is it so odd to you, Cool Papa Bell, that a small dorm would have a cook?
As for the "servant" thing--100 years ago, many if not most US colleges had servants who did things like make the students' beds and take their laundry to the college laundresses and cut wood/bring coal for their stoves, etc. 125 years ago, that was certainly the norm.
So this has evolved to professional staff who work in food preparation, physical plant maintenance, etc. It's no weirder for a fraternity to have a cook than for a dorm's dining hall to have a cook, it seems to me.
(Note: I went to a college that doesn't have fraternities or sororities, or any residential club-type thingies, so I may be missing some shade of meaning here.)
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:29 PM on December 21, 2009
I agree! Obviously, the cafeterias and dining halls of a college and university have cooks--why is it so odd to you, Cool Papa Bell, that a small dorm would have a cook?
As for the "servant" thing--100 years ago, many if not most US colleges had servants who did things like make the students' beds and take their laundry to the college laundresses and cut wood/bring coal for their stoves, etc. 125 years ago, that was certainly the norm.
So this has evolved to professional staff who work in food preparation, physical plant maintenance, etc. It's no weirder for a fraternity to have a cook than for a dorm's dining hall to have a cook, it seems to me.
(Note: I went to a college that doesn't have fraternities or sororities, or any residential club-type thingies, so I may be missing some shade of meaning here.)
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:29 PM on December 21, 2009
I'm completely unsurprised by the concept of a cook in a large group house.
Mid-sized Upper Midwest tech university, 1980's. Most of the larger Greek houses (>10 people) had cooks. Most cooks didn't live in, but came in for lunch and dinner and special weekend meals. Some also had an on-premises "house parent", and all had members who got a break on fees by assisting either the cook or the houseparent. Members living *in* the house paid room&board in addtion to chapter and national dues. (DaughterR informs me that some of the larger group houses, Greek or not, off campus have cooks, at least for lunch and dinner, at her somewhat larger midwestern university.)
posted by jlkr at 1:36 PM on December 21, 2009
Mid-sized Upper Midwest tech university, 1980's. Most of the larger Greek houses (>10 people) had cooks. Most cooks didn't live in, but came in for lunch and dinner and special weekend meals. Some also had an on-premises "house parent", and all had members who got a break on fees by assisting either the cook or the houseparent. Members living *in* the house paid room&board in addtion to chapter and national dues. (DaughterR informs me that some of the larger group houses, Greek or not, off campus have cooks, at least for lunch and dinner, at her somewhat larger midwestern university.)
posted by jlkr at 1:36 PM on December 21, 2009
All of the sororities at my college have something like this- the only one I'm really familiar with has an agreement with a catering company instead of a cook, and they get food 4-5 days a week.
(I can't really speak to frats, as I don't know anyone that lives in a house, but I'm sure theirs is similar.)
posted by kro at 1:36 PM on December 21, 2009
(I can't really speak to frats, as I don't know anyone that lives in a house, but I'm sure theirs is similar.)
posted by kro at 1:36 PM on December 21, 2009
Sidhedevil: "I don't know why you persist in thinking of this as a weird luxury akin to having personal servants, when more than one person has told you that the fees can be cheaper than the university's meal plans
I agree! Obviously, the cafeterias and dining halls of a college and university have cooks--why is it so odd to you, Cool Papa Bell, that a small dorm would have a cook?
As for the "servant" thing--100 years ago, many if not most US colleges had servants who did things like make the students' beds and take their laundry to the college laundresses and cut wood/bring coal for their stoves, etc. 125 years ago, that was certainly the norm.
So this has evolved to professional staff who work in food preparation, physical plant maintenance, etc. It's no weirder for a fraternity to have a cook than for a dorm's dining hall to have a cook, it seems to me.
(Note: I went to a college that doesn't have fraternities or sororities, or any residential club-type thingies, so I may be missing some shade of meaning here.)"
At UVa, when Mr. Jefferson first designed the place, he included slaves quarters as part of the lawn rooms. One national fraternity, I think Kappa Sig, was founded on the lawn. Fraternities were rooming houses that served a large portion of the University. Up until the 1970's there were no female students at the University. A lot of the men would either join a fraternity where there was a cook and a houseman or would stay at a rooming house run by mostly women. Besides having meals there, there was laundry service for some and there were all sorts of rules about visitors. (See the above link; 3rd paragraph)
To have a chef at a fraternity makes sense if you can have enough brothers eating meals. One, it can cost less than dorm food, but certainly less than a restaurant. Second, it brings the brothers together on a very regular basis. It is essentially a co-op.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:50 PM on December 21, 2009
I agree! Obviously, the cafeterias and dining halls of a college and university have cooks--why is it so odd to you, Cool Papa Bell, that a small dorm would have a cook?
As for the "servant" thing--100 years ago, many if not most US colleges had servants who did things like make the students' beds and take their laundry to the college laundresses and cut wood/bring coal for their stoves, etc. 125 years ago, that was certainly the norm.
So this has evolved to professional staff who work in food preparation, physical plant maintenance, etc. It's no weirder for a fraternity to have a cook than for a dorm's dining hall to have a cook, it seems to me.
(Note: I went to a college that doesn't have fraternities or sororities, or any residential club-type thingies, so I may be missing some shade of meaning here.)"
At UVa, when Mr. Jefferson first designed the place, he included slaves quarters as part of the lawn rooms. One national fraternity, I think Kappa Sig, was founded on the lawn. Fraternities were rooming houses that served a large portion of the University. Up until the 1970's there were no female students at the University. A lot of the men would either join a fraternity where there was a cook and a houseman or would stay at a rooming house run by mostly women. Besides having meals there, there was laundry service for some and there were all sorts of rules about visitors. (See the above link; 3rd paragraph)
To have a chef at a fraternity makes sense if you can have enough brothers eating meals. One, it can cost less than dorm food, but certainly less than a restaurant. Second, it brings the brothers together on a very regular basis. It is essentially a co-op.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 1:50 PM on December 21, 2009
Response by poster: I don't know why you persist in thinking of this as a weird luxury akin to having personal servants
You misread what I wrote. I said 100+ years ago, it was more common for rich people to have coteries of personal servants for cooking, cleaning, etc. And that tradition and convenience (the convenience for 20-50 people to contribute to a monthly food-and-service fund) help continue the practice.
Today, when there's a relative democratization of wealth, you can be "rich enough" to go to college and still not have enough money to afford a maid or a cook. In fact, I think you'd agree that the vast majority of college students operate this way.
Obviously, the cafeterias and dining halls of a college and university have cooks--why is it so odd to you, Cool Papa Bell, that a small dorm would have a cook?
Because a) the massive state university I attended had neither dorms nor dining halls -- my college experience was even more unlike some of yours than I previously thought; b) dining halls can use industrial equipment and economies of scale to lower operating costs to a bare minimum, while one person just can't do the same to feed 20-50 people on a daily basis; c) the Greek houses with which I'm familiar were barely-standing sheds suitable only for beer-soaked parties, rather than mini-dorms with SubZero refrigerators; and d) it's just beyond the scope of my personal experience to see parents paying for this, when off-campus housing with one's own kitchen would likely be cheaper -- I guess there's a more significant social element involved in ensuring Timmy and Janey Greek can live with their brothers/sisters, and it's not just an economic decision.
it also goes to explain some of the "how do adults live" questions I see on AskMe, where recent college grads are seemingly ignorant of basics like cooking and cleaning...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:54 PM on December 21, 2009
You misread what I wrote. I said 100+ years ago, it was more common for rich people to have coteries of personal servants for cooking, cleaning, etc. And that tradition and convenience (the convenience for 20-50 people to contribute to a monthly food-and-service fund) help continue the practice.
Today, when there's a relative democratization of wealth, you can be "rich enough" to go to college and still not have enough money to afford a maid or a cook. In fact, I think you'd agree that the vast majority of college students operate this way.
Obviously, the cafeterias and dining halls of a college and university have cooks--why is it so odd to you, Cool Papa Bell, that a small dorm would have a cook?
Because a) the massive state university I attended had neither dorms nor dining halls -- my college experience was even more unlike some of yours than I previously thought; b) dining halls can use industrial equipment and economies of scale to lower operating costs to a bare minimum, while one person just can't do the same to feed 20-50 people on a daily basis; c) the Greek houses with which I'm familiar were barely-standing sheds suitable only for beer-soaked parties, rather than mini-dorms with SubZero refrigerators; and d) it's just beyond the scope of my personal experience to see parents paying for this, when off-campus housing with one's own kitchen would likely be cheaper -- I guess there's a more significant social element involved in ensuring Timmy and Janey Greek can live with their brothers/sisters, and it's not just an economic decision.
it also goes to explain some of the "how do adults live" questions I see on AskMe, where recent college grads are seemingly ignorant of basics like cooking and cleaning...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:54 PM on December 21, 2009
it's just beyond the scope of my personal experience to see parents paying for this, when off-campus housing with one's own kitchen would likely be cheaper
I am not a parent, but I can imagine deciding that my child would be better off living in a dorm/co-op/fraternity/theme house than in their own apartment, and that having some kind of meal plan would result in better nutrition for them than having them live on ramen noodles and pizza. (If I wind up being the guardian of any of my godchildren or my nephew, I will certainly be happy to pay extra for that!)
At my school (and at the different school my Largely Mythological Husband attended), we lived in "residential houses" (his were "residential colleges") which were giant dorms of 800 people or so, and we generally ate at the dining hall that was attached to our house/college. In my day, every student had to live on campus unless you got an exemption (which was generally given, but you had to ask for it); I think that's changed now, though.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:08 PM on December 21, 2009
I am not a parent, but I can imagine deciding that my child would be better off living in a dorm/co-op/fraternity/theme house than in their own apartment, and that having some kind of meal plan would result in better nutrition for them than having them live on ramen noodles and pizza. (If I wind up being the guardian of any of my godchildren or my nephew, I will certainly be happy to pay extra for that!)
At my school (and at the different school my Largely Mythological Husband attended), we lived in "residential houses" (his were "residential colleges") which were giant dorms of 800 people or so, and we generally ate at the dining hall that was attached to our house/college. In my day, every student had to live on campus unless you got an exemption (which was generally given, but you had to ask for it); I think that's changed now, though.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:08 PM on December 21, 2009
I graduated from a big SEC school in 2007 and was part of a national fraternity. At the time our house was brand new, and the kitchen was amazing. Having a cook was another nice perk in the deal. My brothers even helped plan meals out - pending budget approval. Brothers would have to pay fines by washing dishes at minimum wage. But if you had a good chef (we did not have a “cook”) everyone wanted to eat at your house. Women, football players, women, alumni, teachers, parents, mistresses, etc. My girlfriend still remembers some of the formal dinners we had there. No booze was allowed on the first floor, but it was a good time. Like we ever followed that rule anyway.
From what I recall, the meal plan was cheap. Maybe a few hundred bucks for food typically better than what GDI’s had to eat. It was all paid for in my tuition through the University. I am sure they took a cut along with my national fraternity.
One additional item I can bring to the table, is to second JohnnyGunn’s thoughts that it brings brothers together. Some of the best times I ever had as a brother were at meals with my brothers. I especially remember Friday lunches after a big party on Thursday night. As to the exact history as to why it happened, I think it’s natural to want to eat with your friends.
Oh, and chicken figure Wednesday’s, if your still out there, I miss you.
posted by thetenthstory at 2:19 PM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
From what I recall, the meal plan was cheap. Maybe a few hundred bucks for food typically better than what GDI’s had to eat. It was all paid for in my tuition through the University. I am sure they took a cut along with my national fraternity.
One additional item I can bring to the table, is to second JohnnyGunn’s thoughts that it brings brothers together. Some of the best times I ever had as a brother were at meals with my brothers. I especially remember Friday lunches after a big party on Thursday night. As to the exact history as to why it happened, I think it’s natural to want to eat with your friends.
Oh, and chicken figure Wednesday’s, if your still out there, I miss you.
posted by thetenthstory at 2:19 PM on December 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
The frats at my alma mater ranged from huge national, established ones with beautiful old mansions across the street from the university, with full cleaning service and cooks, to dudes who lived in a crappy rented condo together twenty minutes from campus, or who didn't live together at all.
posted by ishotjr at 3:22 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by ishotjr at 3:22 PM on December 21, 2009
25 years ago at Bowdoin College, we had a full-time chef, employed by the college. His salary was paid via the food service fee everyone who lived in the frat paid. He cooked breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
posted by hworth at 4:02 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by hworth at 4:02 PM on December 21, 2009
At Dartmouth 20-some years ago, frats and sororities (the ones that had houses - not all of them did) had pool tables, foosball, taps, bathrooms and bedrooms, but no cooks. Many of them were national, but not all. The ones I was familiar with had kitchens, and the one that I was a member of (local, co-ed) often had house dinners for which we did our own cooking, but most people were one some sort of college meal plan and ate at one of the campus eateries.
posted by rtha at 4:23 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by rtha at 4:23 PM on December 21, 2009
I work as the lead dinner cook in the dining hall at a smallish university (under 2000 students) in Oregon. The frats on campus are all housed in regular dorms and don't have their own cooks, but the sororities have dedicated houses and all have cooks. We have a standing contract with one of the frats where we set aside food for them out of what we made for the dining hall once a week, so that they can all eat together as a "house". All frat members are on the university's meal plans, so that's what pays for it. I've seen job postings for jobs at the sororities that pay about $2 more an hour than I make. They're cooking 2 meals a day for a maximum of 30 girls, while I'm in charge of dinner for ~1000 students every night. It's not worth it to me to have to deal with the picky appetites of a bunch of sorority girls though!
posted by evilbeck at 5:42 PM on December 21, 2009
posted by evilbeck at 5:42 PM on December 21, 2009
it's just beyond the scope of my personal experience to see parents paying for this, when off-campus housing with one's own kitchen would likely be cheaper
Maybe, maybe not. A lot depends on what was charged for room & board, and what the student would be eating -- food costs in a Greek house would probably be less than buying fast food everyday, and healthier than eating cereal and ramen and frozen dinners. Greek housing at the college I attended was off-campus, completely separate from university housing, and costs were comparable with living in a nice off campus apartment.
And yeah, a lot of people make decisions based on things other than cost. I lived on campus in the dorm for four years, because that way I didn't have to cook. I was taking ridiculous class loads, and would not have had time or energy to cook at all, much less nutritious. There's something to be said for knowing that nourishing food will be available, and eating with friends.
You're also falling for the Greek=Rich fallacy. Ain't true, at least in the Midwest. Many of the Greeks I knew were first generation college students; fewer had parents who were in a fraternity/sorority when they were in college. And not every fraternity/sorority member is going to school on Mom&Dad's dollar. Many of the greek-involved kids I knew were paying for at least part of their education, either through working or student loans.
dining halls can use industrial equipment and economies of scale to lower operating costs to a bare minimum, while one person just can't do the same to feed 20-50 people on a daily basis
I'm sure you can see how it would be cheaper to feed 25 people the same thing than it would be for each of those 25 people to cook their own food, just in terms of energy costs and storage areas.
posted by jlkr at 6:30 PM on December 21, 2009
Maybe, maybe not. A lot depends on what was charged for room & board, and what the student would be eating -- food costs in a Greek house would probably be less than buying fast food everyday, and healthier than eating cereal and ramen and frozen dinners. Greek housing at the college I attended was off-campus, completely separate from university housing, and costs were comparable with living in a nice off campus apartment.
And yeah, a lot of people make decisions based on things other than cost. I lived on campus in the dorm for four years, because that way I didn't have to cook. I was taking ridiculous class loads, and would not have had time or energy to cook at all, much less nutritious. There's something to be said for knowing that nourishing food will be available, and eating with friends.
You're also falling for the Greek=Rich fallacy. Ain't true, at least in the Midwest. Many of the Greeks I knew were first generation college students; fewer had parents who were in a fraternity/sorority when they were in college. And not every fraternity/sorority member is going to school on Mom&Dad's dollar. Many of the greek-involved kids I knew were paying for at least part of their education, either through working or student loans.
dining halls can use industrial equipment and economies of scale to lower operating costs to a bare minimum, while one person just can't do the same to feed 20-50 people on a daily basis
I'm sure you can see how it would be cheaper to feed 25 people the same thing than it would be for each of those 25 people to cook their own food, just in terms of energy costs and storage areas.
posted by jlkr at 6:30 PM on December 21, 2009
Clearly, I should have studied harder in high school and gone to a better school. ;-)
I know at least one greek organization at Ohio State has a full-time chef - so it's pretty widespead, not just found at wealthy or really prestigious places.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 7:42 PM on December 21, 2009
I know at least one greek organization at Ohio State has a full-time chef - so it's pretty widespead, not just found at wealthy or really prestigious places.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 7:42 PM on December 21, 2009
I am almost positive all the (housed) fraternities and sororities at Indiana University have a cook or some sort of food service staff. I know all the sororities do. Of course, almost all the sorority houses have close to 100 women living in them!
(I'm an alum of a coed service fraternity - we are unhoused)
posted by SisterHavana at 8:18 PM on December 21, 2009
(I'm an alum of a coed service fraternity - we are unhoused)
posted by SisterHavana at 8:18 PM on December 21, 2009
I ran our kitchen at a Stanford Row House - Not a fraternity, but regular (and coveted) campus housing that lived in essentially a fraternity house. I was in charge of hiring and overseeing a professional chef who ordered and produced lunch and dinner five days a week for approximately 50 students. My first year we had a good but temperamental chef who had previously run a high-quality hotel restaurant in the area. My second year we hired a lovely woman from Thailand who had cooked and run restaurants all her life.
The cost to each student was not much higher than regular dining hall plans, but two main differences - everyone had shifts to bring out meals and clean up the kitchen after (generally 2 - 4 hours per week), and the quality of food was considerably higher. So the odd thing is my experience directly contradicts your assumption of a hired chef being a luxury - we had to work more than the average student for our meals, in addition to the monetary costs.
posted by shinynewnick at 11:46 PM on December 21, 2009
The cost to each student was not much higher than regular dining hall plans, but two main differences - everyone had shifts to bring out meals and clean up the kitchen after (generally 2 - 4 hours per week), and the quality of food was considerably higher. So the odd thing is my experience directly contradicts your assumption of a hired chef being a luxury - we had to work more than the average student for our meals, in addition to the monetary costs.
posted by shinynewnick at 11:46 PM on December 21, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by oinopaponton at 10:35 AM on December 21, 2009