Am I inappropriately worried about his drinking?

December 8, 2009 11:25 AM

I get annoyed with my husband when he drinks. Is this the beginning of a drinking problem, or just MY problem?

He's never been violent, missed work, driven after drinking, or had any trouble with the law.

He likes beer. He doesn't drink every night of the week, but when he does, he tends to binge drink. To me, it appears he can't (or doesn't want to) stop after just a few, even if that is his stated intention. It's normally 6+, and tonight it was 13. After going out for drinks at a bar, he will often stop off at a store for more beer to bring home, even if it's late at night.

The problem is, once he passes a certain point (usually around 5 beers or so) I start to feel distinctly uncomfortable with his behavior. He acts silly. He does mildly embarrassing things. He sometimes slurs. He becomes overly affectionate, and also overly sensitive if someone (normally, me) is not amused by his behavior. For some reason, after he's gone past buzzed and into "getting drunk" territory, I start to dislike him. I feel angry, even a bit repulsed.

We've had a couple of screaming fights when he's been drinking, which is not normal for us. Once or twice I've even told him that I just want him to stop drinking altogether, or learn how to drink in moderation (not to the point of drunkenness), but I worry I'm being too controlling. He has attempted moderation in the past, and he's even "stopped drinking" a few times, but it doesn't last.

I can be very nagging and overly controlling in everyday life (I am aware of this, and I do make an effort not to be), and I suspect part of his drinking is one way of escaping the anxiety he feels about this, and maybe also a way of working up the courage to confront me on it, since he normally won't when he's sober.

When he's drunk, sometimes I feel like he's spoiling for a fight, and I've told him this. He's taken it under consideration and is making a distinct effort to not be so sensitive when he's been drinking. I've also agreed to stop needling/nagging him about how much he drinks. After all, he's an adult and has to make his own choices, and I admit that I have been kind of overbearing about this. I'm hoping that, if I take the pressure off his drinking for a while, he might eventually find his own middle ground because he won't be resenting or rebelling against me.

I took the al-anon quiz recently, and only scored on like 3 of the items, which is very borderline/inconclusive. It doesn't exactly fit our situation, but something is distinctly not right here.

Bottom line: I can't tell if this is the start of a serious drinking problem, or if it's just me being too controlling and nagging.

In either case, I am unsure how to proceed.

posted by anonymous to human relations (70 answers total)

He acts silly. He does mildly embarrassing things. He sometimes slurs. He becomes overly affectionate, and also overly sensitive if someone (normally, me) is not amused by his behavior.

This sounds like pretty normal and not-worrying drunkenness. Does it bother you when other people are drunk and act like this?
posted by jacalata at 11:35 AM on December 8, 2009

I was ready to say that you were being controlling, until I saw that he had 13 beers tonight. That's quite a bit. A six-pack, well, that's one thing. A lot, but understandable. Also, it's different if he drinks like this one night a week or three nights a week. 5?

Short answer, this could be the start of a serious drinking problem, but not necessarily. Can you leave the house and go somewhere else when he starts drinking? I'd feel terrible if my drinking drove my girlfriend out of the house, I enjoy being around her. It might not make me stop if I had a problem, but it'd sure start something.
posted by InsanePenguin at 11:36 AM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

I realize that you're anon, but it would be very helpful to know the details of how much you've talked about this, to what extent, and what his reaction has been, aside from his agreement to try and be less confrontational.
posted by craven_morhead at 11:37 AM on December 8, 2009

Not being able to meet his own goals to not drink so much says drinking problem to me.
Not adjusting his behavior when he knows it makes you unhappy says relationship problem.
posted by ghharr at 11:37 AM on December 8, 2009 [16 favorites]

Damn. I always leave this stuff out. Yes, I think you are being a little sensitive, he sounds like a normal person when drunk to me. I know I do things like this. For all you know, he could have a massive tolerance, and only reaches his happily drunk self after a six-pack.
posted by InsanePenguin at 11:38 AM on December 8, 2009

You have every right to insist on not being treated poorly. That means that you can demand that he not yell at you, not touch you in ways or at times when you've asked him not to, etc. And if he can't treat you well when he's drunk, you have every right not to spend time with him at all when he's drunk.

I'd suggest that you attend some Al-Anon meetings, just to get some tips and strategies for asserting healthy boundaries. I'd also suggest that the two of you get couples counseling. The combination of your control issues and his escapism isn't good for either one of you, nor is it good for your relationship. If he resists counseling, go alone. In fact, you may want to get your own therapist to talk with even if he goes to counseling with you.
posted by decathecting at 11:38 AM on December 8, 2009 [8 favorites]

Unless your husband is a very large guy, he's pretty objectively got a drinking problem. Both the amount he drinks, the regularity with which he does it, his personality change, and especially the fact that he "can't (or doesn't want to) stop" are pretty big red flags.

His aggressive behavior when drinking is a separate, but related problem. Your approach with him needs to be more assertive than "note it, then back off", and I'd wager he's picking up your guilt about "needling/nagging him" and using it as leverage to avoid addressing his problem. As half of a married couple, you're well within your bounds to ask that he not drink in certain situations you're both in. He's got to choose between the booze and his relationship.

I took the al-anon quiz recently, and only scored on like 3 of the items, which is very borderline/inconclusive. It doesn't exactly fit our situation, but something is distinctly not right here.

Your gut is a far better indicator, IMO, than a quiz.
posted by mkultra at 11:41 AM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

Two things stand out in your post:

To me, it appears he can't (or doesn't want to) stop after just a few, even if that is his stated intention.

and

He has attempted moderation in the past, and he's even "stopped drinking" a few times, but it doesn't last.

It is impossible for anyone on the internet to accurately say, without knowing your husband intimately, that he is an alcoholic. But an inability to have "just one", and the fact that he continues to drink in excess even though he knows it affects him negatively, are two classic signs of alcoholism. I should know, because they were the two symptoms that drove me to stop drinking. I often said I'd cut back, or just have one or two drinks, but found that I literally couldn't. It was always all or nothing, which is addict behavior.

Consider attending an Al-Anon meeting in person. It will probably be much more enlightening than an online quiz and the support from people who have been through what you're experiencing now will be tremendously helpful if you decide to alter your relationship because of your husband's drinking.

My sincerest condolences.
posted by balls at 11:42 AM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

It's problem drinking if it causes a problem. It's alcoholic behavior if continuing to drink ranks higher on his scale of importance than the relationship problem it causes.

Also, there's no reason it can't be a problem AND you are being controlling. Only you know how big a problem this is because it is completely subjective. Only he knows if you are being too controlling for him.
posted by Babblesort at 11:43 AM on December 8, 2009 [6 favorites]

For some reason, after he's gone past buzzed and into "getting drunk" territory, I start to dislike him. I feel angry, even a bit repulsed.

In my experience being around drunk people is (usually) fun and hilarious if you are also drunk. If you are stone sober and someone else is totally plastered, that person is going to seem like an annoying idiot. I don't really have any suggestions on how to get around that effect, but that's what I've seen.

As for your specific situation, the only advice I have is to try to get him to transition from drinking alcohol to some other beverage at some point. Water is a good one because drinking water after a lot of alcohol will reduce a hangover. Generally drunk people seem to be more accepting of "Hey, drink this (water) so you won't have a hangover tomorrow" than "Hey, I think you've had enough, time to stop," but your mileage may vary.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:46 AM on December 8, 2009

For some reason, after he's gone past buzzed and into "getting drunk" territory, I start to dislike him. I feel angry, even a bit repulsed.

I know exactly what you mean. I know someone who would drink only occasionally, but sometimes reach this critical velocity of drunkenness. It would start with friends and fun and laughing -- but if this certain point was reached, it would end in irrational screaming and tears. Every. Single. Time. I felt the same repulsive, burning anger you describe watching it start to happen. I made my feelings clear to this person, they agreed there was a problem, and it's been peachy with them since then.

It wasn't about drinking often, it was about drinking too much very occasionally. That (pretty much) sounds like your situation.

I don't mean to counter any other advice you may get (i.e. should not drink, period) but I'd suggest explaining that you couldn't care less if he drinks a beer, drinks a few beers, whatever... but if he binges like this (and there's no number you can put on that, it's an attitude not an empty bottle count) you will immediately physically leave because you cannot be around it. It is unacceptable for an adult to alienate a partner by getting reckless-abandon-drunk. Well, it's unacceptable for an adult to alienate a partner at all, too!
posted by wrok at 11:47 AM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's problem drinking if it causes a problem. It's alcoholic behavior if continuing to drink ranks higher on his scale of importance than the relationship problem it causes.

Exactly. Problem drinking doesn't mean you wake up and drink a six-pack before work. You can drink twice a year in social situations and still have a problem.
posted by wrok at 11:49 AM on December 8, 2009

You don't give his age which factors into my thoughts. If he's in his 20's and doing this then it seems somewhat more normal than doing this into his 40's. But either way, his drinking makes you uncomfortable and that means it is an issue.

It sounds like he drinks to escape and part of that escape is from you and your nagging. I see you are aware of the problem and try to control it but I'd strongly suggest trying harder. And maybe sitting down to talk with him when he's not drinking or drunk to discuss what effect his drinking has on you.
posted by fenriq at 11:49 AM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

anonymous, that behavior sounds pretty annoying.

It sounds to me like beer isn't necessarily the problem, it's unresolved issues and conflict in your relationship that's the problem. I think that it will probably be very difficult for you to get anywhere if you frame this as "i think you have a drinking problem, you should drink less" as this is something that people generally need to decide for themselves -- especially in light of him being self-aware enough to not jeopardize his job or safety.

That doesn't mean you don't have a right to dislike his behavior. It's harming your relationship. But instead of telling him what to do, why don't you just tell him how you feel? The next day, or in the morning, or in couples therapy, tell him that you want your relationship to be better and happier, and that drinking seems like maybe it's getting in the way of that, because it results in him being annoyingly drunk and you being a nag and that's no fun for both of you.
posted by desuetude at 11:50 AM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

I say it's a problem. Not all alcoholics exhibit the same group of symptoms, but the thing that they all have in common is that they can't actually stop.

He needs help. Getting him that help will be difficult.

Good luck.
posted by Citrus at 11:51 AM on December 8, 2009

13 beers is a lot for anyone, and there's nothing wrong with you having an opinion like "I don't like you when you're drunk" and sticking to it, to see if/how that changes his behavior. Be consistent.

But also, I think you really nailed something in your fifth paragraph that I was about to suggest in a more gentle way:

I can be very nagging and overly controlling... and I suspect part of his drinking is one way of escaping the anxiety he feels about this.

Big blinking light there. Drinking is almost always about "escape" to some degree. Sometimes it's just that we need to escape from work stress: a couple of drinks with coworkers. Sometimes we're hiding from so much that we build a fort out of vodka bottles and don't crawl out for months.

Something about his life is making him really, really want to escape sometimes, and escape hard, and not care much about the consequences. And it sounds like you know what that is, or at least have a strong clue.

I am worried that you're seeking an "alcoholic" definition so that you can define the problem that way, confront him with it, and raise the stakes on the conflict. Maybe you should slow it down. He's expressing something, so maybe focus on the why?

Going back to my "I don't like you when you're drunk." suggestion... do that, but why not also let him know when you do like him, and find out what it is that makes him happy, other than beer?

I get the sense you two are less-connected than you once were. More listening?
posted by rokusan at 11:57 AM on December 8, 2009 [14 favorites]

Forget alcoholism for a moment. His behavior is annoying you, so you have the right to tell him so. I'd start there. For a bit of perspective, I rarely drink (maybe once or twice a year) but when I do my wife has made it clear she's not a fan, so I try not to overdo it -- so I draw a line at 2-3 drinks. By comparison, the number of drinks you're talking about certainly qualifies as binge drinking, and health risks aside, I can understand completely why you'd be annoyed.

Also: it doesn't matter if it's "your" issue, he's "your" husband -- you're together in part because you make each other happy. If he's making you unhappy, say so.
posted by davejay at 11:57 AM on December 8, 2009

I wouldn't say that 13 beers is necessarily a lot. Everyone has a different tolerance level.
No one can say "that's too many" to someone else, unless there are obvious and serious results, most of which you listed above as NOT happening.

However, relationships are a two way street, and in this case I see that his drinking IS causing a problem. I truly believe that if he has agreed in the past to restrict the drinking, then he is hearing your voice and agreeing that the drinking is an issue. And the fact that he has failed or discontinued to moderate or stop, tells me that the drinking is a problem.

I do not agree that this problem is necessarily alcoholism, and I'm not sure he needs any sort of treatment, but he does need to understand your concerns and deal with them appropriately, and not just until you forget.

A clever way to curb the habit might be to plan busy days when he will be hungover. Get him to see how the drinking can affect his life, not just his relationship.
posted by Palerale at 12:01 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]

Yeah, he's pretty definitionally a problem drinker. If you need more confirmation, why don't you try taking the Michigan Alcohol Screening Test for him. With just the information you've provided (by no means comprehensive) I score him as a "6" - a definitive Problem Drinker.

I would suggest talking to a social worker or calling AA and asking for their advice. In just one post you've demonstrated how his drinking is justifiably upsetting you, adversely affecting your overall relationship, and making YOU feel responsible/guilty because on some occasions you nag him. This is not necessary! You are not to blame, not at all. Don't rationalize his drinking for him. You do not have a responsibility to let your drunkenness-prone spouse indulge in extra beer because you pester him – a line of thinking sounds dangerously close to enabling behavior.

Ultimately he may need treatment, but before you get to that point, I think you educate yourself on what to do, on how best to help w/o the situation upsetting the whole apple cart of your marriage. Get yourself a therapist, counselor, pastor, very good friend, whatever to talk about this with –you can't help him until you're sure of where you want to go.

Good luck.
posted by mr. remy at 12:06 PM on December 8, 2009

I work in alcohol research. There are studies suggesting that drinking more than 5 drinks per sitting and developing tolerance increase the chances of later developing an alcohol use disorder, even if the amount of alcohol or tolerance alone is not causing a legal or social problem.

Tolerance by itself can be problematic; the higher your tolerance, the more you drink per episode, and the more you drink per episode, the worse it is for your health and the higher the likelihood for getting into trouble is. Even if he's not meeting DSM-IV criteria now, everything I've read suggests he's on track to meeting the criteria in five or ten years unless his behavior begins to moderate.

MeMail me if you want copies of some research studies to show him. I would present it to him as a health issue, and not something that bothers you personally, because he won't realize how much he's setting himself up for trouble if he puts drinking in the same category as leaving dirty socks on the floor.
posted by slow graffiti at 12:11 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

I wouldn't say that 13 beers is necessarily a lot. Everyone has a different tolerance level.

The only people whose tolerance doesn't equate 13 drinks with "a lot" are alcoholics, and possibly college linebackers.
posted by mkultra at 12:11 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's problem drinking if it causes a problem. It's alcoholic behavior if continuing to drink ranks higher on his scale of importance than the relationship problem it causes.

...unless he's not that into the relationship. Just sayin'.
posted by coolguymichael at 12:17 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]

Also, please disregard the folk wisdom in this thread about what constitutes an absolute acceptable level of drinking, "problem drinking", etc.

Please refer to a psychiatrist or at least a screening tool like the Michigan Test linked above that was validated through research to decide if he has a problem that needs professional attention.
posted by slow graffiti at 12:19 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

Sounds to me like a drinking problem, or the beginning of one - although number of beers is pretty irrelevant. He will drink if he wants to drink, it won't be of any use for you to try to limit his intake or give him water as suggested above. If you start being his watchdog, he will only take his drinking elsewhere or hide it.

Be sure to talk to him when he's sober, and preferably not hung over. Tell him that it's his choice to drink this much, but that he needs to know that it affects you in this and that way. Make sure he hears you and realises what he has to lose, whether it be your respect or you as a wife. If he chooses the booze while knowing this, it's time to get out the big guns!

PS The AA quiz is crap. All college students get a huge red flag while it doesn't pick up on more serious psychological dependencies in adults. IMHO.
posted by heytch at 12:19 PM on December 8, 2009

Annoying? Yes.

Problem? Yours.

Some people like to drink. Most people are annoying when they're drunk and you are not. He does not cause problems, nor does he drive while drunk.

Talk to him while sober if you don't like it, but I suspect this is a marriage problem, not a drinking one.
posted by eas98 at 12:20 PM on December 8, 2009 [7 favorites]

To put what I'm going to say in perspective: I drink 1-3 beers every day. I like how it tastes and I like how it feels. I brew my own. I have it on tap. I start the day with a cup of coffee, and I end it with the opposite of how a cup of coffee feels. I micromanage my beer drinking because I'm scared to death of becoming dependent....but I'm 100% fine with using it the same way people use coffee. As a delicious drug that can subtly realign the stars in your favor, plain and simple. It can be used for good or evil.

That said: Your husband has a drinking problem.

If your spouse voices concern about alcohol use, and you don't slow it down, you've got a problem. I don't care who he is: thirteen drinks is a LOT. Six beers in a day would have me feeling like absolute garbage, let alone six beers bang-bang-bang in a row. That's seriously unhealthy.

I have no great advice for you, though. About the best you can do is tell him, look, part of being married is kicking your partner's ass when they're hurting themselves or the relationship. He's doing both and needs to stop. He needs to get help, for the booze and for the underlying problem.

From there, I dunno. Everyone is different, but I'd see not choice but to escalate. You tell him you're done nagging, and you stop. That gets replaced with quiet resolve. You never talk to him, let alone confront him, when he's drunk. You're supportive, but you let him know well in advance what the escalation is going to look like. He's in control of it. You're not going to budge on it, because HE is in control of it. You're not doing it to control him. You're giving him the opportunity to control a situation. If he screws up, you talk to his friends/family about it. A month layer, you move to another bedroom. A month later, you move out. A couple months later, you file for divorce. Some period free of drunkenness resets the clock. At any point he can ask for help and you'll do EVERYTHING to help him. He will bitch and moan, but he's not going to leave you.

Just nagging him about it ain't gonna do shit.
posted by paanta at 12:23 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]

mkultra, I would say that is not correct. I bartend and I can say without questions for some people 13 drinks (over how long?) would lay them out, where I see other people who have 13 drinks (2.5 pitchers over the course of a football game) and are just fine, really, just fine. Walking, talking, eating, figuring out a decent tip and correct change.

Its only causing a problem for you. Like you said, it isn't affecting his work and he's not getting in trouble with the law. This is a relationship problem not a drinking problem. You can have the very valid opinion that you don't like the way he is when he is drunk, but that is not an obvious correlation that he is an alcoholic.

He may not want to drink in moderation, it may not be that he wants to and can't, he may not want to piss you off, so he says he wants to drink in moderation. Then at some point he decides that he want to drink more and he does. This pisses you off. Once again, relationship problem, not a drinking problem, at least possibly.
posted by stormygrey at 12:27 PM on December 8, 2009

I've learned to listen to my gut feelings. From what I read, your gut is telling you the drinking is a problem, you have tried to talk to him about it, and he isn't open to hearing it. It is my experience that people will not accept help with alcoholism until they are ready. You can absolutely set your boundaries about being around him when he is drinking. Although you say you did not score high on the al-anon test, I would definitely check out a meeting, they are free, and really helpful.
posted by heatherly at 12:28 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

It's not my right to diagnose your husband with a drinking problem because of some information I read on the internet. I will say this, though: if he's drinking that much, it is most certainly not doing any favors for his physical health, all addiction concerns aside.
posted by sickinthehead at 12:32 PM on December 8, 2009

He's drinking and it's causing problems. That's pretty much the definition of a drinking problem.

Put it in those terms rather than "I think you have a drinking problem" say "Look, your drinking is causing problems for me." That's not being nagging or controlling, that's identifying a problem in your relationship and working to fix it.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 12:34 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

If you remove 'drinking' from the equation, this is an issue of a behavior on the part of your partner which you have a problem with and which is impacting your life. So he needs to accommodate you, and it's particularly vexing because when someone's that lit up, they're not there, living your life with you. As your partner.

So I would approach it as a regular problem, however you approach such things as a couple.

I too would be very disturbed by this. I think it's excessive, and let that is not a criticism I find myself leveling too often. So: a discussion with him, a visit to counseling, and at the very least, Google Al-Anon.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:37 PM on December 8, 2009

Sorry, missed your Al Anon point -- go to a meeting, if you've already gone through the internetty stuff...Quizzes don't matter. Impact on your quality of life is what matters.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:38 PM on December 8, 2009

Aside from doing the Al-Anon quiz, you might actually go to an Al-Anon meeting or two. The gist of it is, you're going to have to decide if his drinking is a problem for YOU in the context of YOUR relationship, and then what YOU want to do about it. Which is, alas, why none of us can really give you the answer.

I am married to a guy with an alcohol & drug problem. He had six years of sobriety when I met him, and has been mostly sober in the 18 years since then. The alcohol/drug issue occasionally rises; it's a lifelong issue as far as I'm concerned. Occasionally I go to Al-Anon to check in with my own feelings, my fears or my worries. I've found Al-Anon to be profoundly helpful at times, and you may feel the same.

If you do go, you might want to try a few meetings in your area. Like AA meetings, each Al-Anon meeting is different, and you may find one or two that feel like duds to you before you find a good fit.

I'd also say that at this point, feel free to go to such meetings without telling your husband. Right now it's all about you and your feelings. Later, you may decide it's important to share. Or not.
posted by BlahLaLa at 12:41 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

For some reason, after he's gone past buzzed and into "getting drunk" territory, I start to dislike him. I feel angry, even a bit repulsed.

I think telling him this when he's sober is fair game. Then you know that when he DOES get that drunk, he's doing it with the foreknowledge that he's doing something that makes him less attractive to you. And if he continues doing it with that foreknowledge, then, well, he has questions to ask himself afterward: Why is he doing that? Does he not care what you think or feel? Or maybe he has a bigger problem than he thinks?

You aren't forbidding him to drink or anything, you just don't want to be around him when he's super-drunk. That's fair to ask.
posted by hermitosis at 12:42 PM on December 8, 2009

Do not blame yourself for your partner's drinking. Even if he's drinking as an "escape," it's a maladaptive coping. If he is unhappy with your behavior, the appropriate response is to discuss it with you, and not to drink so much beer that his personality changes and he becomes annoying (and the behavior your describing definitely sounds annoying and unpleasant to be around). The thing about being nagging and overbearing is that if he had heard your concerns and respected your wishes in the first place, by either drinking less or being more in control of his behavior when he did drink, you wouldn't have had to nag.
posted by jennyb at 12:45 PM on December 8, 2009 [4 favorites]

I'm hoping that, if I take the pressure off his drinking for a while, he might eventually find his own middle ground because he won't be resenting or rebelling against me.

Unfortunately, you are still preforming the basic thought process that leads to your controlling behavior: you are, mentally, taking on responsibility for things that you cannot control. This makes you anxious and you make attempts to gain more control in an attempt to soothe your anxiety.

Instead of taking on responsibility for his drinking, take on responsibility for you. What can you do to resolve this situation? Blaming yourself is not productive. Nor is this solely "your" problem.

Your problem = His problem

Anything that affects you negatively will affect him negatively because your lives are so closely intertwined. If you push this feeling down and minimize it and try to wish it away, it's going to make you irritable and closed-off and tense, and he's still going to go drink and come home to bother you. That will affect him. That will affect you. Nothing will change. Don't do it.

Let's look at this in terms of solutions that are proactive and practical. If you get his enthusiastic cooperation, great. Otherwise, focus on things that you can do mostly alone.

His behavior when he is drinking bothers you.

His behavior while drunk: Not likely to change.

His drinking: Hasn't changed so far. Would he be open to attempts to moderate his drinking that do not rely on his willpower? Meaning, he can take only so much cash to the bar and leave credit cards at home? You can ask, but you can't force, unfortunately.

The behavior bothers you: Can he go elsewhere? Can he drink at a friend's house? At a motel? Can you go elsewhere? Can you spend time in another part of the house that will be closed and off-limits to him when he's drinking?
posted by kathrineg at 12:45 PM on December 8, 2009 [5 favorites]

maladaptive coping mechanism, I meant to say.
posted by jennyb at 12:46 PM on December 8, 2009

Broker a deal: when he drinks, you go to AlAnon meetings.

Consider that you don't enjoy being around him when he drinks. If you leave when he drinks, you are solving that problem. Taking it a step further and using that time to absorb AlAnon experience, you can learn how to deal with your emotions, how you can and can't help him, as well as strategies for coping and perhaps escaping.

From his perspective, when he drinks suddenly you get gone. At first he may think, "Great! I can drink and do whatever I want and she won't be here to hassle me." Over time though, if he truly loves you, he is likely to realize that getting drunk means not having you. Ideally, he will begin to miss you.

Keep note of the fact that alcoholism is a progressive disease. If he is exhibiting alcoholic tendencies, they will continue to get worse. He may drink to drunkenness more frequently, he may become enraged when drinking with more frequency, he may begin to hide his drinking or even drive while drinking. As mentioned above, age is a very important factor. If he is still young (twentyish), he is already exhibiting signs that may turn problematic over the next ten years. If he is already in his forties, it is very likely he will have significant issues very soon.

As a recovering alcoholic myself, I recognize the dynamic that exists in your relationship. I wanted to drink, she didn't want me to, it caused friction. Lather, rinse, repeat... night after night after stinking drunk night. Please try AlAnon. At the very least, you will learn some helpful tools and likely make some fast friends. Look at it this way, it isn't likely to be any worse, right?
posted by netbros at 12:48 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

I've dealt with the "borderline problem drinker" issue in my own marriage, although with the polarities reversed (drinking 7 days a week but hardly ever getting obnoxious drunk, cycling between 2-3/day on up to a 6-pack at night and a 12-pack over the course of a weekend day, at which point I'd eventually pitch a minor fit, he'd stop or cut back for a month, lather/rinse/repeat).

The biggest issue for me, and which is applicable in your case as well, is that he was essentially checking out of our marriage/family for several hours each night, several times a week. That was/is not acceptable to me.

I would be very cautious about identifying your nagging as the cause of his drinking, unless this is truly a new thing for him that started only with the onset of your controlling/nagging behaviors in the relationship. He may indeed be using alcohol to escape the stress of that, but (a) you can't eliminate all sources of stress from his life (so if it weren't your nagging, would it be something else?); and (b) alcohol and drugs are absolutely counterproductive tools for dealing with stress. In other words--even if you could do your part to reduce his stressors, he needs to come up with a better coping mechanism as well.

In my case, my husband did come around to the point of view that what he was doing was unhealthy and problematic, though I'm afraid it took a scary sort of ultimatum--"I will not be married to an alcoholic"--to get him to that point.
posted by drlith at 12:53 PM on December 8, 2009 [4 favorites]

Sorry I don't care what anyone says. 13 beers in an evening is a lot. A lot a lot. I'm around pretty serious drinkers (sometime Irish musician) and even for those guys (who all have pretty serious drinking problems), 13 beers would be a big night.

As far as the bartender above who says that someone can drink 13 without having a problem, that's fine, unless they ever decided that they didn't want to drink 13, and went into acute withdrawal, which is a motherfucker and if not done in a hospital can kill you, staight up. I don't have a drinking problem, and if I drank 13, I'd probably be dead. It's more of a sign that you do have a drinking problem if you can drink 13 and still be normal. That's not prudishness, that's just people building up tolerance to something that is more or less poisoning them.

Sounds like you need to work a lot of things out with your husband. Your acknowledging your issues, perhaps he can acknowledge his. But I would definitely say it's fairly obvious your husband has a drinking problem. I think a room full of people in AA would see through him in a second.
posted by sully75 at 12:58 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

Well, I'd guess that he could have a problem - to me it depends on context. If he has 6-8 beers on a weekend, or perhaps once in a while in the week, this wouldn't seem particularly excessive to me. Once in a while, every other month say, a big night might involve 13 maybe. If it's more often than that, I'd be starting to get concerned - but very much in a "your getting too p1ssed too often sense" rather than a "you're an alcholic sense". That said, most of the behaviour you describe seems to me pretty typical for someone who's had a bit to drink. It's not the sort of thing that would worry me particularly, such as agression or genuinely inappropriate behaviour.

I think what you might consider is a two pronged assault, firstly considering yourself, is there something there which makes you more sensitive to people's behaviour when drinking than others might be? If so, that's something you might want to think about, both in terms of how it might be affecting your perception of his behaviour, but also as something to discuss with him. Secondly, you might try suggesting he cuts back a bit (rather than stop), starts drinking a little later, or after food. Personally, I would find suggestions of alcholism to be going a little too far at this stage - and indeed I can see how that suggestion might annoy. Then again, I am British and, if you're from the US we do have quite different societal views on alchol consumption. Good luck!
posted by prentiz at 1:06 PM on December 8, 2009

I think it's doubtful that your nagging has anything to do with his drinking. A lot of people start drinking in this fashion during high school and keep doing it because they don't know how to socialize without alcohol. If he stops, it'll have to be when he's tired of it. That might never happen. You have a right to say that it has become a problem because just because he's not dangerous or missing work doesn't mean that there aren't other, important facets of your lives being neglected due to his drinking. Let him know how you feel.
posted by bonobothegreat at 1:07 PM on December 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

Sully, respectably, the idea that if you drink 13 beers, and then stopped drinking, you would risk death, is a little risible. If you drank them in 2 hours they'd make you extremely drunk, but drunk over 6, merely pretty drunk. Certainly, I would strongly dispute the suggestion that, in order to drink 13 beers in an evening you would have to have such an alcohol tolerance as to be at an inherent risk of acute withdrawal symptoms.
posted by prentiz at 1:11 PM on December 8, 2009

This is going to sound possibly stupid and/or relatively minor, but does he have a hard time falling asleep? Especially after one or two beers? I know folks who have difficulty sleeping if they've had one or two beers and will opt for six or seven to "seal the deal."
Re: curbing the habit - the biggest drinking demotivator for me are the notches on my belt. My partner is stunningly beautiful and if I'm in a period where I'm drinking more calories than I'm burning off in a day I'll start to bulk up and then I feel like a big hairy oaf standing uncomfortably close to a pretty girl. Losing weight is *so* much easier when I'm not drinking.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:18 PM on December 8, 2009

sully... 13 beers is a lot, but certainly not to the extent that you're describing. Remember, we're talking about over the course of an evening. One drink an hour for the normal human is the standard I've always heard. Start drinking at six, go to bed at midnight (though that's generous) - we're talking about roughly two drinks an hour. Thirteen drinks is a lot if you're slamming them on the porch outside the frat house - but sitting around a campfire or hanging out at a show in a bar... I can conceive of how this would happen. I wouldn't do it personally (as per fatness issues above) but I've seen it happen in the course of a normal evening.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:22 PM on December 8, 2009

How would he respond to you presenting him with the reality that 13 beers is what... around 2,000 calories? God that's like eating a whole turkey.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 1:24 PM on December 8, 2009

It's called functional alcoholism. My husband's father never missed a day of work. He just missed out on his family, raising his son. My husband's mother eventually left him because of this behavior--fighting, missing out on raising a child, wasting money on booze, etc.

He died of cirrhosis and it wasn't pretty according to my husband.

13 beers is ridiculous. Behavior changes and picking fights is ridiculous (but obviously because of the 13 beers). No one wants to hear they're an alcoholic but the possibility is there. It seems unlikely he feels that he is one or has a pattern of being one.

In short, his drinking is causing him to act like a jerk--that is a problem. If he's not a jerk when he doesn't drink then I would encourage him to seek therapy and see why he's being a jerk in a relaxed, yet drunken, state. Something is at that core that is letting him be 'free' when he drinks. He needs other stress management techniques.

I'm very sorry you're going through this.
posted by stormpooper at 2:06 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

You said he doesn't drive after he drinks, but you also say that after he drinks at a bar, he stops for more beer on the way home. This leads me to believe he *does* drive after he drinks. Buzzed driving is still drunk driving.
posted by stoneweaver at 2:10 PM on December 8, 2009

stoneweaver, see above. Not everyone lives in an area where liquor stores are only accessible by vehicle.
posted by craven_morhead at 2:16 PM on December 8, 2009

For whatever it's worth, what you're experiencing sounds a lot like what I experienced during a year of so of questioning whether I was totally crazy or whether my loved one was becoming an alcoholic. A year or two later it had become abundantly clear to both of us that by then he had a serious drinking problem and was rapidly becoming less and less functional.

It's entirely possible you are being too controlling and he is developing a drinking problem - neither is clear-cut and the two aren't mutually exclusive. I'd work on focusing on yourself right now and let his drinking be whatever it's going to be - you need to take care of yourself, and that may also include learning to be less controlling over things you can't really control anyway.

This may or may not involve al-anon. For me, it involved a couple of trips to al-anon, which were instructive in feeling less alone and understanding the range of what drinking problems can be, and picking up some general concepts that have been useful to me. But regular al-anon meetings would definitely not be for me and won't necessarily be for you.

Good luck, to you and him. Feel free to email me if you want to talk.
posted by Stacey at 2:20 PM on December 8, 2009

You said he doesn't drive after he drinks, but you also say that after he drinks at a bar, he stops for more beer on the way home. This leads me to believe he *does* drive after he drinks.

um, or he walks.
posted by anthropomorphic at 2:22 PM on December 8, 2009

I suspect this is a marriage problem, not a drinking one.

this.
posted by anthropomorphic at 2:24 PM on December 8, 2009

13 beers is a lot, but certainly not to the extent that you're describing. Remember, we're talking about over the course of an evening. One drink an hour for the normal human is the standard I've always heard. Start drinking at six, go to bed at midnight (though that's generous) - we're talking about roughly two drinks an hour.

Regardless of how drunk you think 13 beers over X hours will or will not make you, regularly consuming that much is indisputably an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. Can we all at least agree on that?
posted by mkultra at 2:32 PM on December 8, 2009

Let's focus on the fact that there is a difference between binge drinking and alcoholism. They are not the same thing. No magical amount of alcohol automatically equates "alcoholism"... rather, it's the fact that consuming alcohol negatively impacts your life and the lives of those around you (and that you continue to consume it, regardless).

Many people drink infrequently but always binge drink, others may get drunk only once and deal with terrible consequences, then realize they are prone to alcoholism -- and never drink again.

Your concern is that you cannot control his behavior; I understand this compulsion. Until recently, I wanted to control the behavior of people I was in love with because on some level, being able to control another person somehow inferred to me that my demands were more important than the other person's compulsions, i.e., I was the most important factor in any equation.

If you recognize yourself in this statement, I'd say a trip or two to Al-Anon and couples counseling will help you both figure out your individual motivations and the status of your marriage. Something else might be going on entirely; we are strangers only getting one side of the story.

I really feel your pain, though. Please don't let this escalate without getting some kind of professional advice. Both of you could be simply pushing the other person away using the most convenient triggers available and unable to deal with the fact that the marriage itself isn't working for either of you.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 2:41 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

The short answer is that he may or may not have a drinking problem, but you're not wrong to have a problem with his behavior. You need to set clear expectations for going forward and then follow through with action as needed. We don't know if your nagging is the cause of anything or if it's even as bad as you think.

As for whether this is the start of a drinking problem (in the sense of addiction), is already a full blown problem, or is just an annoying habit that can be fairly easily changed given incentive, we can't say. But the all or nothing style of drinking, buying more on the way home from the bar, etc. - those aren't great signs. It's not a simple on or off thing, but those are things to pay attention to.

The reason you get angry is that this doesn't meet your expectations of how your marriage was supposed to go and so feels like a betrayal of what you tacitly assumed to be an agreement. Nobody really thinks to sit down before the marriage and say, "I expect that the person I marry will not drink 13 beers on a weeknight regularly." You just assume it's implicit. I mean, that's a frat party champion level of drinking. I understand how spreading it out over six hours is different than pounding it all in a few hours at the frat house, but 13 drinks in an evening? There's no way around that being a heavy night of drinking.

If you're just kind of annoyed, maybe you're willing to live with it. If you decide you're not, you have to get serious with the expectations. And they have to have teeth or they don't mean much. I don't mean withhold sex or give him the silent treatment or something if he keeps it up, I mean start backing away from him. That says, "live this way if you want - I won't." If you've used only words in the past and they haven't gotten results, it's time to pair them with action.

So I think step one is to have that conversation. First tell him what you told us about the anger and resentment. Use the old, "When you _____, it makes me feel ______" model, which is not accusatory or judgmental and simply gives him more perspective. He may push back and say you shouldn't feel that way. Whatever, just get it out there. Then make a clear statement that something you have to have in a marriage - for the rest of your life - is a husband that doesn't get substantially drunk on a regular basis, or possibly even almost never. That doesn't mean don't drink, it means, as you say, figure out a way to do it in moderation. This isn't telling him how to live, it's telling him what you need.

You're an equal partner here - you get to have a say in how your shared life goes. And each of you gets to decide whether your arrangement is acceptable or not. Each of you has to compromise to a degree, but either of you can leave, ultimately, if you can't find a workable compromise. Whether the peanut butter goes in the fridge vs. the cabinet may be something you need to compromise on, as may be whose family you visit on the holidays or other much more significant personality issues. But heavy regular drinking is pretty much universally recognized as unacceptable problem behavior, not some quirk you just tolerate in the interest of compromise.

So if you lay down your expectations and make it clear that you won't live with him that way, the next step would be to stop the regular nagging about it. He knows your needs and expectations, now let him choose. In fact, use this period, a month or two, to experimentally stop all nagging, all controlling behavior, and see if it has any effect. Even if it seems like it's necessary in order to prevent an avoidable problem, even if that problem affects both of you, don't nag or tell him what to do. To the degree it's his fault or decision: let the towels and underwear stay on the floor, let the dishes pile up, let infinitives be blatantly split, let him slouch, let the two of you be late because of him, let the weeds grow, let him stay up till 4 am on the computer and be useless at work, etc. Just take those losses as a potential investment in a desired outcome. He may, as you say, be drinking in reaction to your behavior. Everyone needs to feel a degree of control over their life and he may feel trapped and deprived and resentful with you always trying to control him. Then again, that may not have anything to do with it or you may not be as controlling as you think. But that'll be the time to test it. This period will determine what his pre-consequence priorities are.

If you notice no appreciable change, you can take the next step to wake up call time. Go live with parents or friends for a few weeks. That's a stark message but may clarify the situation for him. He may well have different post-consequnce priorities. He may agree to change in order to bring you back and then may start up again as he has before. Escalate as necessary. I know you're looking for solutions, not a path toward divorce, but over time you'll have to figure out what you're willing to live with. So will he. Getting drunk is fun, but getting divorced isn't.

I hesitate to suggest adding fuel to a potentially addictive fire, but one idea may be to try to interest him in drinking more for appreciation than intoxication. As a fancy beer aficionado myself, I found myself drinking too much. I'd start off just wanting to appreciate my new find(s) but then quickly find myself at the end of a six pack, surprised that I was on the last one. And at that point I'd want to go out and get more and keep going. It didn't feel like a problem, but when I looked at it as though I were someone else, it looked like the makings of a problem. So I shifted. I stopped buying beer regularly and started getting into fine cognacs and liqueurs. Those aren't things you really drink to get drunk. They're for small sips, big flavor, and savoring. If nothing else the cost keeps you from drinking too much. And beer goes down like water but these things don't. So I might have one or two of those in a given evening, satisfying my desire for something substantial, but that's enough. If not this, then maybe there's some other way you can use positive redirection rather than confrontation and consequences.
posted by Askr at 2:41 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]

Whether he cannot stop or just does not want to is not something that we can ascertain, and it's not something that anonymous can ascertain, either. He's going to have to find that out for himself.

I think that focusing on the exact number of beers is just stuff about which to argue. If he feels the need to essentially remove himself from being responsible for his actions for several hours a night, it doesn't really matter if he uses 13 beers or 10 or 6 to get there.
posted by desuetude at 2:47 PM on December 8, 2009

Regarding withdrawal: my grandfather was a steady 2-4 big shots of whiskey a night drinker. Not usually more than that. Went on a trip with my dad, and I think (THINK) he got off schedule with his drinking, had seizures in the hotel room and went into the hospital. But I know that he went into withdrawal in the hospital. My dad asked the nurse why he was shaking and she was like..."does he drink? He's detoxing". He died, not from the DTs but I'm not totally sure if the initial seizures were the result of withdrawal.

Sorry too for confusing the issue: in the case of someone occasionally drinking 13 beers, I don't think that's necessarily life threatening. My point was that if someone is regularly drinking 13 beers in a night, if they did end up trying to quit (or more commonly: end up in the hospital for something related or unrelated), the chance of them having nasty, possibly life threatening withdrawal symptoms is really high.

Rehashing what I learned in nursing school recently. It was really frightening, actually. I don't think it was alarmism. It was our teacher telling us patients she'd dealt with.

But I'm pretty sure you're fooling yourself if you think someone who can drink 13 beers without being particularly affected is not alcohol-dependent.
posted by sully75 at 2:47 PM on December 8, 2009

I left the computer to do some other business, and spent half the time I was away thinking about this question. And I came to a certain (maybe obvious) conclusion.

If your husband regularly consumes 6 units of basically anything product, and up to 13 on 'binge' nights as - potentially - a coping mechanism, leading to arguments, bad feelings, and ill effects on health, there is definitely a problem.

If on a semi-regular (more than weekly) basis, your spouse consumed – in one sitting – 6 bags of M&Ms, 6 cans of coke, 6 microwave pizzas, 6 cappucinos, 6 asprin, 6 glasses of wine (a little more than a bottle for a restaurant pour) chugged 6 tablespoons of antacid, 6 scoops of ice cream, 6 bowls of oatmeal, vacuumed the living room 6 times, called 6 friends back-to-back, watched 6 TV shows (...)you would have reason to be concerned. And especially if on some occasions, that '6' were '13' or more (...) consumed. You would not hesitate to say that your spouse had a weird dependency/ problematic relationship with (M&Ms, coke, pizzas, espresso, asprin, wine, antacid, ice cream, oatmeal, the vacuum cleaner, the telephone, TV...).

In any of these scenarios, any sane person would approach their spouse and tell them to curtail or examine their relationship with (...). And if the 6-item-consumer they wouldn't, if they tried and couldn't, if they pretended not to see the problem, yo would further be confirmed w/r/t about the seriousness of the problem. This is not to say there is no argument to be made for a time and a place to eat 6 bags of M&Ms – special occasion? – but that the problem IS with the substance, and the addictive/compulsive behavior, not the marriage.

I am not saying your guy is a drunk. I am not saying things are awful, or beyond repair. But come on -- ! If person X takes six shits in an evening, three nights a week, they've got a bowel problem, and if they smoke six back-to-back cigarettes every couple days, they have a weird smoking habit. Nobody would deny that.
posted by mr. remy at 2:48 PM on December 8, 2009 [3 favorites]

I think a habit like could be a symptom of something else going on between the two of you. What's common about the times he starts drinking? Yes, maybe he can't stop and that's a problem, or maybe he knows he's not going to stop and just doesn't give a fuck. (At that time.)

Does he ever, in the middle of happy family time, start drinking? Or is it usually after he's been alone, maybe you've been especially critical of him and overlooked things he's proud of, maybe you haven't slept together for a while. Maybe his job or his boss is especially frustrating him and he doesn't feel ok with talking about it with you. Easy, now, I'm NOT blaming you. I'm just saying, a lot of times there's a root cause of binge drinking, even if it's entirely in the person's own mind.

Just something to think about.
posted by ctmf at 4:48 PM on December 8, 2009

I'm surprised at how many people are saying it is your problem. You are not saying to your husband not to drink, only that you are uncomfortable when it seems to you that he drinks to excess. That seems reasonable to me.

But then, I get irritated when I see someone making the same mistakes over and over, which is what it seems to me your spouse is doing.

Some background: My Dad quit drinking, cold turkey, when I was a kid. I never once saw him abusive or even really angry, he never missed work, never drove drunk, never once neglected my Mom or any of us kids. But he stopped drinking because he realized that when he took a drink, he couldn't just stop after that one drink. He had to have more. He didn't like alcohol having control of his life, so he quit.

Fast forward to today: my spouse drinks recreationally. I have no problem with that. On rare occasions, though, he drinks to excess. By which I mean that he becomes physically ill and throws up the entire next day--what I guess is a serious hangover.

In contrast, I've never even been drunk. I'll, very rarely, have a drink at a party. Never more than two. After seeing my Dad quit, I've never wanted to be too far under the influence of alcohol.

So if I didn't want my spouse to drink at all, that would definitely be my baggage. If I railed at him for enjoying a beer or two or three, I'd agree I was being over-sensitive.

But when I can *see*--and it is very obvious to me, an an observer that hasn't been drinking--that he has reached a point where the tide is turning and he is going to be sick in the morning if he doesn't stop drinking, and I try to coax him to stop drinking, and have some water or something instead, and he refuses to listen and then, yes, ends up throwing up all the next day--well, I don't have patience with that any more. We are in our forties; we aren't kids, and I think there comes a time when you have to be an adult and accept the consequences.

As I said, this is a rare occurrence for him. When it happens, he feels very foolish and apologizes for not listening to me. And I don't nag at him after. I just go on and do my own thing until he is through the worst.

But if this happened several times a week--yes, I would be worried, and pissed, and I'd be on his case about it.

And you made clear in your post that you ONLY get worried and upset and annoyed by his behavior after your husband's had five beers or so. You say then he acts silly and all the rest, and people say, hey, that's just what people do when they are drunk, but why, when it upsets you, does he continue to get drunk?

If he can't, after knowing that's the threshold that makes everything ugly and unpleasant between you, stop at five beers, then I think the problem is not your trying to control him, but him trying to accommodate you in any way at all.
posted by misha at 5:00 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

I'm not a doctor- hell, I'm not even a bartender- but as far as I know, it's entirely possible for someone who's, say, over 100 pounds, and under 100 years old, to drink 2-4 drinks a night without ever being intoxicated, much less becoming so physically dependent on alcohol that one would experience seizures in withdrawal.

(If I'm wrong about that, I'd love it if someone corrected me.)

I don't want to get into a meta-fight with anyone in, but seriously, I knew before I opened this page that it would have a half-dozen variations on YES HE DRINKS TOO WAY MUCH HE'S PROBABLY GOING TO BECOME A DEGENERATE DRUNK AND COMMIT CRIMES AND THEN DIE FROM IT. And, um, I don't know, it just gets a little old.

Believe me - I know how annoying drunk people can be, especially when you're not drinking. You don't say if you drink at all. I hope I'm not too out of line pointing out that he might be less annoying if you drink with him sometimes. And if drinking ends up making *you* annoying too, then maybe you can quit together?

On the other hand, Al-Anon for you is probably a better idea. And if he really wants to moderate his drinking, he's probably going to find that there's a threshold- say, he can have 2 drinks and stop just fine, but if he has three he's off to the races. Again, not necessarily a problem, just the nature of drinking for fun, that in some circumstances, having a certain amount of alcohol makes it seem like a really good idea to have a lot more. If he knows those limits, then he might be happier staying within them.
posted by hap_hazard at 5:58 PM on December 8, 2009

he feels the need to essentially remove himself from being responsible for his actions for several hours a night

I was in a relationship like this. I know exactly how you feel about annoyance, disgust, dislike, anger, embarrassment. To an outsider, it was nothing. He's a very big guy, and a Bavarian. I never counted how many drinks he had, but he always seemed "fine," wasn't stumbling or having any actual problems. The drinking was "cultural." But he'd reach this point where I'd start to feel uneasy, and I started to really examine my feelings about it.

I don't have any issues with alcoholism in my family. I enjoy alcohol and occasionally get drunk in social settings. Even when I'm the stone-cold-sober one, I don't get annoyed with drunk behavior. Except for one friend. When she gets drunk, she is the girl who forgets her purse, forgets to tell me she's leaving with someone else, forgets to pull her stockings down in the toilet, forgets the condom. This makes me anxious because yes, I have controlling urges, and I can't enjoy myself when I feel like if I turn my back, my friend will wind up in some crisis. What I had to come to terms with is that being in these situations doesn't seem to bother her (LOL I was so blacked out), so it's my problem. Either I feel this way or I avoid being around her when she's drunk. I chose the latter, since she doesn't owe me a behavior change.

I recognized these same feelings when my boyfriend would reach that "point." And the feelings were compounded because he was ten years older than my girlfriend, he did "owe" me a certain amount of compromise re: his behavior, and I missed the feeling of safety and security that I like to have in a relationship because he was unable to be looking out for me. I want to be with a grown man, not a frat guy. A man who's in control of his actions and responsible, for himself and, to some degree, for me. Respect is so important in a relationship, and I don't want to feel embarrassed about his behavior or afraid of what he might do next. When he got super-drunk, I realized that deep down, underneath annoyance, etc, were fear and sadness, because when he got to that point, his behavior changed to the point where he was no longer the same guy that I'd chosen to be in a relationship with.

I can't speak to whether he's An Alcoholic, but if you feel this way, he should care. My boyfriend didn't. Tell your husband how you feel when he's sober. Be very specific. Make it all about your feelings, and leave out how you think it affects him (that's "his business" for the sake of this conversation). You lose respect for him when he's not in control of himself. You feel scared that he is "checking out," and wouldn't be available if something were to happen. Avoid bringing up things that he can flip around to the buddies as nagging, like the silliness and unattractiveness -- you don't want him to be able to dismiss your real concerns. In the end, whatever his justifications are for drinking as much as he does (relaxation, etc), he should be able to find a substitute or work out a compromise.
posted by thebazilist at 6:14 PM on December 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

there's no reason it can't be a problem AND you are being controlling.

only you knowif it's one or the other or both. If you're trying to get a definitive answer on metafilter this won't work. The difference between 6+ and 13 is pretty huge, as is the difference between drinking like this once a month or every few days or whether he's 30 or 20 or what.

Most respondents are going to give you different advice based on whether they've been with alchoholics or in a controlling relationship, but either way it's a problem for ya both so seek help with the whole thing, not just his drinking. I do NOT think this is a job for al-anon, sorry, more marriage counselors and honest chats with each-other.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 7:36 PM on December 8, 2009

Killing more than a six-pack nearly every time you drink, and sometimes as many as 13, which is hammered in anybody's book, definitely isn't good. Going in frequently with the intention of moderation and failing to achieve it, and failed attempts to quit altogether, are not good signs. You should be worrying about your husband's drinking, and talking to him about it when he is sober and you are calm.
posted by nanojath at 8:29 PM on December 8, 2009

If you're uncomfortable with it, then there's a problem. Talk to him about it when he's sober.
posted by bunny hugger at 6:25 AM on December 9, 2009

13 beers on a schoolnight is a pretty good crack even for a heavy-drinker / binge-drinker. An alcoholic may knock down 13 beers before getting into the liquor.

Either way, he needs to ease up.
posted by jasondigitized at 7:41 AM on December 9, 2009

I haven't seen this addressed above (apologies if I missed it), but with so many responses focussing on the "13 beers", it's worth asking what strength & volume these beers are - there's a significant difference between 13 250ml bottles of 3% beer and 13 pints of European/premium-strength (5%+) lager.
posted by anagrama at 9:19 AM on December 9, 2009

What I would like to know is why is she being nagging/controlling? What makes her think that? Because he says so? I mean if you're on him for say picking up after himself, not to drink so much and act like an ass, etc. why is that controlling as opposed to him needing to take responsiblity for himself and her speaking up about his ridiculous behavior? Why does she think it's about her?

Look, a lazy jerk (not saying yours is just saying as an example) is a lazy jerk. Why put up with it? But that's the key--he won't change and you'll be touted as a nag/controller. But are you? In the end, perhaps it's more or less you're not made for each other?

I know this sounds blunt but I'm in the same boat, that's why I bring it up. I have expectations in a relationship and he does the same. Neither of us are meeting them, thus the bottom line question is since no one is changing:

Can you live this way until death do you part?

I don't know if I can.
posted by stormpooper at 12:00 PM on December 9, 2009

Just to start, I'm shocked at someone who drinks 13 beers in a sitting, or 6 regularly. It seems very excessive to me. Just a random data point.

I'd second this stormpooper: "What I would like to know is why is she being nagging/controlling? What makes her think that? Because he says so? I mean if you're on him for say picking up after himself, not to drink so much and act like an ass, etc. why is that controlling as opposed to him needing to take responsibility for himself and her speaking up about his ridiculous behavior? Why does she think it's about her?"

I agree that you should be wary of these thoughts. I was a "nagging/controlling" girlfriend in my last relationship, in which the person I was with was a bad fit (not enough initiative, kind of an ass, kind of controlling himself, etc. etc.). Now I'm with someone new and I'm not nagging/controlling anymore. Or maybe I am, and he doesn't care. Point is that thoughts about "maybe I should just stop trying to get him to ___" are gone now that I'm with someone who compromises and does things that need getting done on his own initiative. I'd take a look at things, try from as objective a standpoint as possible, and see if you're "nagging" (1) in response to him not pulling his weight, and/or (2) over nothing and/or at random times. If he's not pulling his weight, you need to address that separately and get working on it - maybe it will make him seem like less of a slob when he gets tanked if he's more responsible in everyday life. But also, whether he is or is not pulling his weight, you should stop nagging him randomly about regular, day-to-day things. Criticisms should be focused and should be at a set-aside conversation to emphasize that time will be devoted to addressing them, rather than said in the heat of passion and/or in passing.

Moving on to the drinking. I'm not sure how to best address it, but have a few random suggestions. For now, you can be apart when he drinks - either you go out with your girlfriends or he goes out with his guy friends and/or to a bar. Doesn't have to be a big production, you're just going to head out because Suzie called and she needs help with whatever. In the long run, if you don't get comfortable with him drinking (and I don't know if you should or shouldn't), he could find another way to relax, and you could support him for trying new things. As I said above, if he's lazy outside of the drinking, maybe if he just does more when he's not drinking it will help you cope and remember he's a good guy the rest of the time - provided his drinking doesn't lead you to feel threatened in any way.
posted by lorrer at 5:23 PM on December 9, 2009

My wife has a drinking problem. She's been sober for 8 years now.

The warning signs WERE there before 8 years ago, but it really took a major meltdown on her part to highlight the problem for me. When I actually did "snap out of it" and realize how dependent she was on alcohol, I tried to get her help, but I also told her (during her more sober moments) that I was leaving if she didn't fix this.

You might be @ an earlier stage than the end stage--however, 13 drinks while ALONE seems a pretty big warning sign--but it's good to keep asking and keep watching.

The scary part is that I'm not sure either of us were going to be able to acknowledge that she had a problem until it got as bad as it did Not trying to scare you, but keep this in mind.

Going to AlAnon sounds like a good idea (though remember, by going you're sort of admitting to the others there that your husband DOES have a problem; so just keep that bian in mind if you are truly unconvinced yourself)

Good luck
posted by DavidandConquer at 8:56 AM on February 14, 2010