"She’s gone black-boy crazy, I’ve gone white-girl hazy"
December 1, 2009 9:20 AM Subscribe
The name of the phenomenon of white people being strongly attracted to Asian people is commonly called Yellow Fever. The same phenomenon of white people being attracted to black people is often called Jungle Fever. What's it called when non-white people are attracted to white people?
Just a tiny bit of background (and why I'm not a racist for asking):
I grew up and live in Jewish West Los Angeles and have seen a bunch of examples of white-Asian and black-white couplings and it's often said, at least in my circle, that Jewish guys have the Yellow Fever and Jewish girls have the Jungle Fever.
My Thai girlfriend and her friends tease me for having Yellow Fever and I want a comeback for what kind of fever she has, but there doesn't seem to be a name for it. Doesn't seem fair. So, hivemind, what does she have?
Just a tiny bit of background (and why I'm not a racist for asking):
I grew up and live in Jewish West Los Angeles and have seen a bunch of examples of white-Asian and black-white couplings and it's often said, at least in my circle, that Jewish guys have the Yellow Fever and Jewish girls have the Jungle Fever.
My Thai girlfriend and her friends tease me for having Yellow Fever and I want a comeback for what kind of fever she has, but there doesn't seem to be a name for it. Doesn't seem fair. So, hivemind, what does she have?
Twist, I think the OP knows it's offensive, and that's why we're looking for a fighting-fire-with-fire retort.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:26 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:26 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
The name of the phenomenon of white people being strongly attracted to Asian people is commonly called Yellow Fever. The same phenomenon of white people being attracted to black people is often called Jungle Fever.
Yeah, not by people who aren't racist it isn't.
People who aren't white being attracted to people who are isn't called anything, because white attributes and features are the mainstream beauty ideal in the US and lots of other places. It's only being attracted to other features that's "weird" enough to attract comment and stigmatization, which is where those terms come from and what they represent.
posted by crabintheocean at 9:29 AM on December 1, 2009 [5 favorites]
Yeah, not by people who aren't racist it isn't.
People who aren't white being attracted to people who are isn't called anything, because white attributes and features are the mainstream beauty ideal in the US and lots of other places. It's only being attracted to other features that's "weird" enough to attract comment and stigmatization, which is where those terms come from and what they represent.
posted by crabintheocean at 9:29 AM on December 1, 2009 [5 favorites]
I'll bite:
Stockholm syndrome?
Sleeping with the colonizer?
posted by arcticwoman at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2009 [6 favorites]
Stockholm syndrome?
Sleeping with the colonizer?
posted by arcticwoman at 9:30 AM on December 1, 2009 [6 favorites]
I'd say "colorblind" but if they're referring to "fevers" I guess that's not the case.
posted by JaredSeth at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2009
posted by JaredSeth at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2009
A gay person of colour I knew a million years ago called it 'doing Casper.'
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2009 [6 favorites]
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:33 AM on December 1, 2009 [6 favorites]
Leave it to Beaver Fever?
posted by ian1977 at 9:35 AM on December 1, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by ian1977 at 9:35 AM on December 1, 2009 [9 favorites]
Response by poster: This is an extremely racist and offensive term.
I apologize for offending you. That was not my intention. I would state in my defense that the title to this question comes from the Stevie Wonder song "Jungle Fever."
posted by bluejayway at 9:36 AM on December 1, 2009
I apologize for offending you. That was not my intention. I would state in my defense that the title to this question comes from the Stevie Wonder song "Jungle Fever."
posted by bluejayway at 9:36 AM on December 1, 2009
it's often said, at least in my circle, that Jewish guys have the Yellow Fever and Jewish girls have the Jungle Fever.
Sounds like you have an opportunity to point out to your circle that there is no congruent term, and that the rest of the world really wishes you would stop saying this.
posted by hermitosis at 9:38 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
Sounds like you have an opportunity to point out to your circle that there is no congruent term, and that the rest of the world really wishes you would stop saying this.
posted by hermitosis at 9:38 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
The technical term is miscegenation.
Also, the racism in the terms comes from the racist bigot using them, not from the words themselves. Or is Spike Lee's movie Jungle Fever automatically a racist film?
posted by Liver at 9:44 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, the racism in the terms comes from the racist bigot using them, not from the words themselves. Or is Spike Lee's movie Jungle Fever automatically a racist film?
posted by Liver at 9:44 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
You could say she has "gone native"? That makes sense especially if she or her parents are foreign born. I guess there is a lot of baggage there too.
posted by 2bucksplus at 9:48 AM on December 1, 2009
posted by 2bucksplus at 9:48 AM on December 1, 2009
This is one of those situations where, rightly or wrongly, it's difficult to retort, because you are part of the mainstream 'privileged' culture from which the others are defined as, well, others.
The 'fever' idea more or less refers to a colonialist past (or present), in which white "civilized" people are drawn to the exotic-ness of people who they see as savages, i.e. outside civilization as they know it.
There is indeed a related fetish, but it doesn't really have a name. It's called the "attraction to people who represent the group that has all the power and money." Chiding your girlfriend with the idea that she's doing this may not be productive for your relationship.
Your ethnic friends are kind of bashing themselves by using these terms, so it's probably the best move for you to just roll with it and not really participate. Say that, just like Stephen Colbert, you "don't see race."
It would probably be embarrassing for you to eventually meet some relative of your girlfriend's who very much wants to believe that you like her for reasons that have little or nothing to do with yellow fever...
Unless you wanted to go with the Jew thing. Maybe there's a name for gentiles who are attracted to Jews. But, even if there is such a term, I'm not really sure you want to go there, either.
posted by bingo at 9:50 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
The 'fever' idea more or less refers to a colonialist past (or present), in which white "civilized" people are drawn to the exotic-ness of people who they see as savages, i.e. outside civilization as they know it.
There is indeed a related fetish, but it doesn't really have a name. It's called the "attraction to people who represent the group that has all the power and money." Chiding your girlfriend with the idea that she's doing this may not be productive for your relationship.
Your ethnic friends are kind of bashing themselves by using these terms, so it's probably the best move for you to just roll with it and not really participate. Say that, just like Stephen Colbert, you "don't see race."
It would probably be embarrassing for you to eventually meet some relative of your girlfriend's who very much wants to believe that you like her for reasons that have little or nothing to do with yellow fever...
Unless you wanted to go with the Jew thing. Maybe there's a name for gentiles who are attracted to Jews. But, even if there is such a term, I'm not really sure you want to go there, either.
posted by bingo at 9:50 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
Miscegenation is a technical term in the same way "negroid" and "mongoloid" are technical terms. As in, don't you ever think--ever!--that you're going to get away with using them (ever).
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:50 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:50 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
I've heard black white couplings (of which I am the darker half of one) referred to as Jungle Fever for both. I think there's an unstated assumption that being in the Jungle is bad, so of course whoever is it wants to get out. So the black person has "Jungle Fever" in the sense of wanting to get out of the jungle.
Urban Dictionary says it's a blanket term used on anyone who dates outside their race, which makes sense since doing has often been considered a step down or "low class".
I can't recall a similarly succinct term for a black person preferring, dating or hooking up with a white person, be it negative or positive. There are various statements, such as "likes cream too much" or "snow bunny honey" where a snow bunny is a white woman with a black man and a thousand others I'm not recalling at the moment, but nothing as ear catching as "jungle fever".
This is an extremely racist and offensive term.
It depends how it's used and who's using it. It can easily be wielded as an insult ("Why are you with one of them, you got jungle fever os something") or as a suggestion of power ("Yes, come on over here and get a taste of this jungle fever").
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:51 AM on December 1, 2009
Urban Dictionary says it's a blanket term used on anyone who dates outside their race, which makes sense since doing has often been considered a step down or "low class".
I can't recall a similarly succinct term for a black person preferring, dating or hooking up with a white person, be it negative or positive. There are various statements, such as "likes cream too much" or "snow bunny honey" where a snow bunny is a white woman with a black man and a thousand others I'm not recalling at the moment, but nothing as ear catching as "jungle fever".
This is an extremely racist and offensive term.
It depends how it's used and who's using it. It can easily be wielded as an insult ("Why are you with one of them, you got jungle fever os something") or as a suggestion of power ("Yes, come on over here and get a taste of this jungle fever").
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:51 AM on December 1, 2009
Your ethnic friends are kind of bashing themselves by using these terms
Doubtful, they're almost assuredly bashing him, in a playful manner, while defining themselves as being the superior race and so powerful that they've infected the white boy with "the fever" by the sheer awesomeness that is their race.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:55 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Doubtful, they're almost assuredly bashing him, in a playful manner, while defining themselves as being the superior race and so powerful that they've infected the white boy with "the fever" by the sheer awesomeness that is their race.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:55 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Urban Dictionary suggests Suburban Fever for black -> white.
And put me down as not finding a problem with a racially diverse group of friends using these terms in good humor.
posted by eggplantplacebo at 9:56 AM on December 1, 2009 [5 favorites]
And put me down as not finding a problem with a racially diverse group of friends using these terms in good humor.
posted by eggplantplacebo at 9:56 AM on December 1, 2009 [5 favorites]
Love.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:07 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 10:07 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Brandon Blatcher: I think there's an unstated assumption that being in the Jungle is bad, so of course whoever is it wants to get out. So the black person has "Jungle Fever" in the sense of wanting to get out of the jungle.
what
posted by mkultra at 10:08 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
what
posted by mkultra at 10:08 AM on December 1, 2009 [3 favorites]
(Although, seriously, the term is banana.)
posted by Sys Rq at 10:09 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Sys Rq at 10:09 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is funny (not "ha-ha" funny, just "heh" funny), because I grew up in an heavily Asian/Latino part of East Los Angeles. People I knew and friends just generally brushed what you're trying to describe as "being whitewashed" or attempting to "be white", which has its own depressing confirmatory aspects about racism -- much in parallel to that documentary posted on the blue a while back about the neo-Nazi homosexual scene in Germany (I believe it was called "Männer, Helden und schwule Nazis" - Men, Heroes and Gay Nazis) is a kind of discrimination (racism) which is a universal, even when one would react unthinkingly and assume that it's not so.
Anyways, back to the question: there really was no specific term for being a minority and dating a white person. I hope that this is just a natural consequence of growing up in an environment where race didn't matter in love, but I (cynically and sadly) suspect that it was just because it didn't happen too often and therefore didn't get a damnable phrase attached to it.
posted by zer0render at 10:16 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
Anyways, back to the question: there really was no specific term for being a minority and dating a white person. I hope that this is just a natural consequence of growing up in an environment where race didn't matter in love, but I (cynically and sadly) suspect that it was just because it didn't happen too often and therefore didn't get a damnable phrase attached to it.
posted by zer0render at 10:16 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
BB: Jungle Fever once referred to an actual disease that one would catch in the jungle (e.g. malaria). The implication of the phrase as reference to interracial couples is that falling in love with a black person, or indeed even perceiving one to be human, is a symptom of a horrible disease; a sign that a white person has spent too much time exposed to black people. It's not only anti-miscegenation, but anti-integration, and generally just plain really, really racist.
posted by Sys Rq at 10:17 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Sys Rq at 10:17 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
what
The black person has the fever in the sense of wanting to leave home, their race i.e. "the jungle" for the exotic other. The traditional meaning of the term implies that it would be step up for a black person, but I assure you, it's not seen as a positive from the black side of the coin.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:18 AM on December 1, 2009
The black person has the fever in the sense of wanting to leave home, their race i.e. "the jungle" for the exotic other. The traditional meaning of the term implies that it would be step up for a black person, but I assure you, it's not seen as a positive from the black side of the coin.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:18 AM on December 1, 2009
Mod note: A few comments removed. Folks, it's obviously a charged question, but please stick to trying to productively engage the question and leave the jokes and spittakes out of it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:22 AM on December 1, 2009
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:22 AM on December 1, 2009
The implication of the phrase...
You're assuming the phrase has only one implication and meaning and despite having a minority explain to you other meanings of the phrase, you still insist on touting that definition as the only definition. That's the truly racist part, though not in in overt or malicious way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:25 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
You're assuming the phrase has only one implication and meaning and despite having a minority explain to you other meanings of the phrase, you still insist on touting that definition as the only definition. That's the truly racist part, though not in in overt or malicious way.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:25 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I do not suggest you actually say this to your girlfriend in any context, but from my knowledge of Chinese I would guess that Thai has several terms that more or less describe your relationship as betraying her line or forsaking her blood. Just to give you an idea of how offensive these terms are, I still don't know them in Chinese because my parents won't tell me and I wouldn't broach the subject with anyone else.
posted by d. z. wang at 10:26 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by d. z. wang at 10:26 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
the term you are looking for is 'whiggie' (google search here)
it's short for 'white guy groupie.' warning: my philliphino wife treats it as an insult, much like banana or coconut.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 10:32 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
it's short for 'white guy groupie.' warning: my philliphino wife treats it as an insult, much like banana or coconut.
posted by lester's sock puppet at 10:32 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]
So, you need a disease that your Thai girlfriend has that explains why she's with a Jewish man...
...Tay-Sachs? *shrug* It's just as preposterous as you having yellow fever.
I married a feisty American of Latin and Mayan descent, and thankfully we have yet to be assigned a disease. Still, I'm down with what eggplantplacebo said.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:46 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
...Tay-Sachs? *shrug* It's just as preposterous as you having yellow fever.
I married a feisty American of Latin and Mayan descent, and thankfully we have yet to be assigned a disease. Still, I'm down with what eggplantplacebo said.
posted by infinitewindow at 10:46 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Growing up in Philly's inner city, we called them 'Pollies' as in 'Polly wants a cracker.'
posted by malp at 10:47 AM on December 1, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by malp at 10:47 AM on December 1, 2009 [9 favorites]
My Thai girlfriend and her friends tease me for having Yellow Fever and I want a comeback for what kind of fever she has, but there doesn't seem to be a name for it.
You'll always win if you can just say something sweet instead, like, "I'd love you even if you were plaid."
posted by hermitosis at 11:09 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
You'll always win if you can just say something sweet instead, like, "I'd love you even if you were plaid."
posted by hermitosis at 11:09 AM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would probably reply with, "Wait, you're not white?!" and stare at her with a vaguely horrified expression on my face.
posted by skintension at 11:17 AM on December 1, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by skintension at 11:17 AM on December 1, 2009 [4 favorites]
Having grown up with a diverse mix of friends and a bunch of mixed kids who had parents from different backgrounds, I've seen similar sort of "taking the word back", or "it's just among us" and "oh, this racism is killing me inside yuk yuk yuk" type of insidery joking. However, my warning is, are you sure you really want to start playing this game? I wouldn't assume that just because they joke like this with you that it'd be ok for you to joke back to them with a similar phrase. Doesn't matter how much you feel like you've been accepted or part of the group, there's always a chance that that one person is going to take offense to what you've said. I'm not saying that they're all secretly harboring negative feelings about your relationship and disguising it with these jokes, but one foot-in-mouth phrase and you could easily trigger a blow out or even lead to a string of awkward events that will not end well. Sounds unfair? But that's interracial dating for you. You have to be aware of possible issues and need for understanding that comes from it in order to have a healthy relationship (whatever the racial make up may be). For example, this right here could speak to a greater issue of how comfortable are you with this joking to begin with? Do you really need to match word for word? How do you feel about it if it was one-sided and had to continue? Exactly how cool are you with her crew? Is this a possible seed of resentment that can be planted? And so on and so forth.
There's always a chance that over the course of them poking fun at asking how long you've been suffering from yellow fever, etc., you decide to bust out a "Well, it's not my fault she really likes her white milk! Hey yoooo!" everyone will laugh, but what happens when that one time you look over to see her cousin or friend who doesn't know you as well or maybe someone who wasn't too happy with the joking to begin with glaring at you with a weird look on their face? Or if you find yourself an argument when a joke hits a little too close to home?
My mom's friend, a Korean woman who married a black man, was spending some time with her husband and his friends and family and noticed them casually dropping the n-word as they talked with each other. She knew that this was a not cool word, but she pieced it together in her head that it was being used like how you'd call your friend a bad name, but you know, in that endearing "This guy, this guy right here, he's a right son of a bitch." She didn't have a bad relationship with her husband's family or friends, they all loved her in fact, and she had a chill relationship with all of them. So she decided to fit in and say it herself. And it was just like in a movie where all of the sudden you hear that record scratch noise and the room is instantly silent. Everyone just stared at her. Her husband's sister took her aside and explained to her, "Yea...you just can't do that. I mean we can, but you can't." The party resumed, no harm no foul. Everyone understood the situation, but it definitely was AWFULLY awkward. She told the story to my mom and was laughing, but it was still a cautionary tale since she still told my mom, "Seriously, don't ever make the mistake I did."
I myself had to do some growing up once I went to college and the"this racism is killing me inside" joke moments didn't really translate outside of certain circle of friends all the time, and I could offend some people.
posted by kkokkodalk at 11:37 AM on December 1, 2009 [7 favorites]
There's always a chance that over the course of them poking fun at asking how long you've been suffering from yellow fever, etc., you decide to bust out a "Well, it's not my fault she really likes her white milk! Hey yoooo!" everyone will laugh, but what happens when that one time you look over to see her cousin or friend who doesn't know you as well or maybe someone who wasn't too happy with the joking to begin with glaring at you with a weird look on their face? Or if you find yourself an argument when a joke hits a little too close to home?
My mom's friend, a Korean woman who married a black man, was spending some time with her husband and his friends and family and noticed them casually dropping the n-word as they talked with each other. She knew that this was a not cool word, but she pieced it together in her head that it was being used like how you'd call your friend a bad name, but you know, in that endearing "This guy, this guy right here, he's a right son of a bitch." She didn't have a bad relationship with her husband's family or friends, they all loved her in fact, and she had a chill relationship with all of them. So she decided to fit in and say it herself. And it was just like in a movie where all of the sudden you hear that record scratch noise and the room is instantly silent. Everyone just stared at her. Her husband's sister took her aside and explained to her, "Yea...you just can't do that. I mean we can, but you can't." The party resumed, no harm no foul. Everyone understood the situation, but it definitely was AWFULLY awkward. She told the story to my mom and was laughing, but it was still a cautionary tale since she still told my mom, "Seriously, don't ever make the mistake I did."
I myself had to do some growing up once I went to college and the"this racism is killing me inside" joke moments didn't really translate outside of certain circle of friends all the time, and I could offend some people.
posted by kkokkodalk at 11:37 AM on December 1, 2009 [7 favorites]
malinchismo might come close but my spanish is very weak so it might miles away from it's meaning.
posted by rdr at 11:40 AM on December 1, 2009
posted by rdr at 11:40 AM on December 1, 2009
twinkie fever: yellow on the outside with a white filling.
posted by bravowhiskey at 1:40 PM on December 1, 2009
posted by bravowhiskey at 1:40 PM on December 1, 2009
I may be wrong, but I thought the term "yellow fever" had a slightly different connotation. Not just a white man/woman attracted to an Asian, but rather attracted in an unhealthy way. As in fetishistic way that buys into what Asian women are supposed to be like according to some hoary old stereotypes of the super-feminine/submissive etc. In other words, a pretty nasty phenomenon. I can see someone making a joke like that, but I never heard of any of my male white friends with Asian girlfriends referred to that way, because it was assumed their relationships were healthy. Of course, I may have the usage all wrong.
posted by VikingSword at 1:43 PM on December 1, 2009
posted by VikingSword at 1:43 PM on December 1, 2009
As for people suggesting that the Asker say "banana" or "twinkie" in response? Yea, I'd be real careful with that. Might be different with Thai people or other Asian groups, but from my background of Chinese and Korean friends, those two words aren't strictly used to refer to relationships, it's more in using to referring to a person, in a bad way, who acts too white and isn't "Asian enough". Like calling a black person Oreo. I really don't know if I'd be advising the OP here to be lobbing around banana and twinkie to his Asian girlfriend and her group of friends even if he was Asian too. That kind of within the group exclusion can be just as hurtful to people as racism from an external group.
posted by kkokkodalk at 1:47 PM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by kkokkodalk at 1:47 PM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
In the gay world Caucasians who like Asians are rice queens, the 'reverse' are called potato queens and Asians who like Asians are known as sticky rice. Nobody takes offense to any of these terms.
posted by Long Way To Go at 2:34 PM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Long Way To Go at 2:34 PM on December 1, 2009 [1 favorite]
Caucasian Brit married to Canuck Asian. We refer to Bananas and Eggs.
One of the #1 reasons why I am proud of my Mother. Asked by my late Grandmother (who grew up when we had Empire and doted on my wife) if it ever bothered her that she was Chinese; to which my Mother responded "No, I've only ever thought of her as FirstName".
Love is colour blind.
posted by arcticseal at 3:44 PM on December 1, 2009
One of the #1 reasons why I am proud of my Mother. Asked by my late Grandmother (who grew up when we had Empire and doted on my wife) if it ever bothered her that she was Chinese; to which my Mother responded "No, I've only ever thought of her as FirstName".
Love is colour blind.
posted by arcticseal at 3:44 PM on December 1, 2009
Forgot to add, we refer to Yellow Fever in a gently mocking tone.
posted by arcticseal at 3:48 PM on December 1, 2009
posted by arcticseal at 3:48 PM on December 1, 2009
Vanilla Fever.
Alternatively, you can just say "She likes vanilla, what can I say?"
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 4:52 PM on December 1, 2009
Alternatively, you can just say "She likes vanilla, what can I say?"
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 4:52 PM on December 1, 2009
"Say that, just like Stephen Colbert, you "don't see race.""
Mmm, yeah, don't be doing that. When Colbert talks like an ignorant caricature of a white man, he's doing it on purpose.
posted by Sallyfur at 5:46 PM on December 1, 2009
Mmm, yeah, don't be doing that. When Colbert talks like an ignorant caricature of a white man, he's doing it on purpose.
posted by Sallyfur at 5:46 PM on December 1, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
This is an extremely racist and offensive term.
posted by twistofrhyme at 9:24 AM on December 1, 2009 [2 favorites]