Playing good mentor/bad mentor
November 4, 2009 7:56 AM Subscribe
Tutoring a 14 year old. How to be supportive of dreams and yet practical?
I'm tutoring a fantastic 14 year old as part of a program focused on getting inner-city kids into good high schools (and from there, on to college). My student is very interested in acting, and wants to apply to an arts-oriented high school and then go to college and get into the movie business and be a famous actor. Hooray!
I've never seen him act--I take on faith that he's good, but I know he's got a great personality and is very funny and bright. But acting is a tough row to hoe, and I'd like to make sure that he keeps his options open.
We haven't talked at all about how hard it can be to make a living as an actor. Is this something we should do? He's very interested in school--but primarily, it seems, as a means to getting to be an actor--and I don't want to stifle that enthusiasm. The tutoring program is really geared towards nuts and bolts (and we don't have much time with the kids), so I don't have a lot of visibility into the rest of his life, though I do know that few people in his family finished high school.
Any advice?
Bonus question: he's asked me to pull together some materials on colleges that have good programs in film/theatre. I was thinking USC and NYU, but this is not my area. What should he have on his radar?
I'm tutoring a fantastic 14 year old as part of a program focused on getting inner-city kids into good high schools (and from there, on to college). My student is very interested in acting, and wants to apply to an arts-oriented high school and then go to college and get into the movie business and be a famous actor. Hooray!
I've never seen him act--I take on faith that he's good, but I know he's got a great personality and is very funny and bright. But acting is a tough row to hoe, and I'd like to make sure that he keeps his options open.
We haven't talked at all about how hard it can be to make a living as an actor. Is this something we should do? He's very interested in school--but primarily, it seems, as a means to getting to be an actor--and I don't want to stifle that enthusiasm. The tutoring program is really geared towards nuts and bolts (and we don't have much time with the kids), so I don't have a lot of visibility into the rest of his life, though I do know that few people in his family finished high school.
Any advice?
Bonus question: he's asked me to pull together some materials on colleges that have good programs in film/theatre. I was thinking USC and NYU, but this is not my area. What should he have on his radar?
Fourteen is both old enough to know what you want to do, and young enough that you can change your mind a million times. Applying to an arts based high school won't hurt. He'll get a better feel for the craft, and he'll still get all the basics you need to graduate high school.
At this point, I wouldn't harp on how hard it is to be an actor - I would focus on how important it is to graduate from college, though.
NYU has a great acting program, as do the University of Michigan, the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music, and Carnegie Mellon.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
At this point, I wouldn't harp on how hard it is to be an actor - I would focus on how important it is to graduate from college, though.
NYU has a great acting program, as do the University of Michigan, the Cincinnati Conservatory of Music, and Carnegie Mellon.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 8:02 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
You're a tutor, not a parent; it's not your job to perform a reality check and persuade your student that his dreams are not realistic.
Instead, you need to help him identify his talents and skills, help him develop self-motivational skills, and help him be more creative and have good coping skills - all of these skills will help him out *if* his acting dream doesn't pan out.
Just give him the tools, but don't try to predict the future. That's his job.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:05 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Instead, you need to help him identify his talents and skills, help him develop self-motivational skills, and help him be more creative and have good coping skills - all of these skills will help him out *if* his acting dream doesn't pan out.
Just give him the tools, but don't try to predict the future. That's his job.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:05 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think you should just continue to encourage him. He's only 14 years old. He's got at least another 8 years before he needs to make a living as an actor (and much longer then that to make it big). As he goes through highschool and the start of college, he'll become aware of the pitfalls ahead of him.
posted by royalsong at 8:06 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by royalsong at 8:06 AM on November 4, 2009
he's asked me to pull together some materials on colleges that have good programs in film/theatre.
Teach him how to do research. Also, make him memorize stuff. Having to memorize dumb dialogue got me over my acting bug in college really fast.
posted by anniecat at 8:09 AM on November 4, 2009
Teach him how to do research. Also, make him memorize stuff. Having to memorize dumb dialogue got me over my acting bug in college really fast.
posted by anniecat at 8:09 AM on November 4, 2009
God, when I was 14 I wanted to be a science-fiction author writing exclusively Christian-themed stories about persecution in space (I still sort of want to do this, actually, but I have a day job).
Going to an arts-focused high school, if it's a good school that has a college prep track, is really no worse than going to any other high school, so I don't think you should "save" him from such a fate.
posted by muddgirl at 8:11 AM on November 4, 2009
Going to an arts-focused high school, if it's a good school that has a college prep track, is really no worse than going to any other high school, so I don't think you should "save" him from such a fate.
posted by muddgirl at 8:11 AM on November 4, 2009
Colorado also has a decent film school.
And I wouldn't discourage the acting thing one bit. I also wouldn't worry about giving a reality check. He'll get enough of these. And he's 14. In 4 years he may want to be a physicist.
If you give him a reality check, if he's at all dedicated, he'll ignore it and drive on regardless of the crappy odds. Without it he gets to dream and try and have something that motivates him.
At best you get to crush someone's dreams.
When I was 14 I wanted to fly the space shuttle and be a professional writer. I managed to make a chunk of my living through writing over the years, but had no idea it would turn what I thought was fun into work. I still write, but seldom for cash.
I had a high school teacher tell me I'd never be a writer. I still remember her, kinda still despise her with a passion, and take some small amount of pride in the fact that she was an idiot.
I worked in a bookstore for 6 years. All the time I'd get parents come in and say things like, "My son is only interested in Star Trek books. Why would you recommend to a kid that only wants to read these?" My answer was usually a diplomatic, "You have a kid that likes to read, do you know how rare that is? He'll either get bored with the Star Trek books and move on or he won't, but trying to force the issue will probably just make him hate reading."
I'd try to encourage the hell out of him. 14 is old enough to start doing community theater. It's old enough to look into voice overs and commercial work. Get him books. Find some actors that will give him back stage tours (or on set tours).
Being a creative self-employed the cards are way against you. You have to pay you and the employer's portion of social security, you have to make tons to afford insurance, etc. The chances of making it in most creative fields is like becoming a professional athlete, but people do it all the time with enough talent, luck, and support. Give him this.
And for those wondering I never did get to fly the shuttle though (yet).
posted by cjorgensen at 8:13 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
And I wouldn't discourage the acting thing one bit. I also wouldn't worry about giving a reality check. He'll get enough of these. And he's 14. In 4 years he may want to be a physicist.
If you give him a reality check, if he's at all dedicated, he'll ignore it and drive on regardless of the crappy odds. Without it he gets to dream and try and have something that motivates him.
At best you get to crush someone's dreams.
When I was 14 I wanted to fly the space shuttle and be a professional writer. I managed to make a chunk of my living through writing over the years, but had no idea it would turn what I thought was fun into work. I still write, but seldom for cash.
I had a high school teacher tell me I'd never be a writer. I still remember her, kinda still despise her with a passion, and take some small amount of pride in the fact that she was an idiot.
I worked in a bookstore for 6 years. All the time I'd get parents come in and say things like, "My son is only interested in Star Trek books. Why would you recommend to a kid that only wants to read these?" My answer was usually a diplomatic, "You have a kid that likes to read, do you know how rare that is? He'll either get bored with the Star Trek books and move on or he won't, but trying to force the issue will probably just make him hate reading."
I'd try to encourage the hell out of him. 14 is old enough to start doing community theater. It's old enough to look into voice overs and commercial work. Get him books. Find some actors that will give him back stage tours (or on set tours).
Being a creative self-employed the cards are way against you. You have to pay you and the employer's portion of social security, you have to make tons to afford insurance, etc. The chances of making it in most creative fields is like becoming a professional athlete, but people do it all the time with enough talent, luck, and support. Give him this.
And for those wondering I never did get to fly the shuttle though (yet).
posted by cjorgensen at 8:13 AM on November 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
I would let him find his own path, but stress that education is good for other things like you need math and reading to get along in the world personally (finances and whatnot). Going to an arts high school won't hurt his chances of getting into college or anything. Artsy stuff is one of those things that you wither try to do for the rest of your life, or you decide is not for you. Most people end up with some semblance of a back up plan accidentally (I did), and 14 year olds aren't very good at practical thinking anyway.
As to the school, NYU and USC are great schools, but very expensive and hard to get into. Might I suggest Temple? The film school is ranked in the top ten, and I don't know about the theater school but I have a few friends who went through the program who liked it and got real jobs. It's not as expensive and it was pretty easy for me to double major as a film student. Philly also has a great arts scene, but it's not nearly as big as starry-eyed as LA or NY. Most students become realistic about not becoming a gigantic star, due to the sheer fact that they are surrounded by working, well-payed theater actors and film crews, which I think is healthy. I've also heard good things about Boston College and Fordham, but have no personal experience with those.
posted by itsonreserve at 8:13 AM on November 4, 2009
As to the school, NYU and USC are great schools, but very expensive and hard to get into. Might I suggest Temple? The film school is ranked in the top ten, and I don't know about the theater school but I have a few friends who went through the program who liked it and got real jobs. It's not as expensive and it was pretty easy for me to double major as a film student. Philly also has a great arts scene, but it's not nearly as big as starry-eyed as LA or NY. Most students become realistic about not becoming a gigantic star, due to the sheer fact that they are surrounded by working, well-payed theater actors and film crews, which I think is healthy. I've also heard good things about Boston College and Fordham, but have no personal experience with those.
posted by itsonreserve at 8:13 AM on November 4, 2009
We haven't talked at all about how hard it can be to make a living as an actor.
Nor should you. If he wants to be an actor he's nearly certainly going to wait some tables or steam some milk - that's just the way it is. I don't know if there's a way to do it gracefully, but the lesson of practicality you should be hoping he learns from your conversation is, "Can you maintain interest and passion in work that will probably require you to work twice as hard as most people, to get half as much? Are artistic rewards enough to sustain you?"
posted by dirtdirt at 8:15 AM on November 4, 2009
Nor should you. If he wants to be an actor he's nearly certainly going to wait some tables or steam some milk - that's just the way it is. I don't know if there's a way to do it gracefully, but the lesson of practicality you should be hoping he learns from your conversation is, "Can you maintain interest and passion in work that will probably require you to work twice as hard as most people, to get half as much? Are artistic rewards enough to sustain you?"
posted by dirtdirt at 8:15 AM on November 4, 2009
Nthing not raining on his parade.
Can you take this as an opportunity to show him the best film and TV out there? If he's interested in the medium already, it could be a great way to show him different parts of the world and introduce him to different ways of thinking. Maybe you could take him to some art house cinemas.
posted by oinopaponton at 8:21 AM on November 4, 2009
Can you take this as an opportunity to show him the best film and TV out there? If he's interested in the medium already, it could be a great way to show him different parts of the world and introduce him to different ways of thinking. Maybe you could take him to some art house cinemas.
posted by oinopaponton at 8:21 AM on November 4, 2009
Let him picture his future the way he wants it. Let him take the steps necessary to make his own future. He may become the finest actor this generation will ever know. Don't deny us this.
posted by Sassyfras at 8:28 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Sassyfras at 8:28 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
I was dead-set on being an actor when I was 14 as well. My mother tried to give me a reality check by gently pointing out that it may be a good idea to have something to "fall back on" because acting was hard, y'see, and I may NOT make it, and...
My mother's advice didn't work as a reality check -- only going to college and trying out actor training could do that. Instead, my mother emphasizing how I may NOT make it as an actor convinced me that "holy shit, my own mother doesn't have faith in me."
I am almost 40 and I am still trying to recover from how much that belief hurt me.
The rest of the world will give this kid plenty of reality checks when it comes to how hard acting is. What he needs are people who will say "yeah, true, it's hard, but I really believe that if you really work at it, you've got a shot, so go for it." Because THOSE people are few and far between. And if you don't have them around when you're a teenager, you end up believing there is something fundamentally wrong with YOU rather than it being the profession that's just hard.
As much as I roll my eyes at Dr. Phil, something he said about the role a support system should play for kids struck me -- ideally, a kid's family should be "a soft place to land" when the outside world beats them down. Not in a molly-coddling unrealistic sense -- but in emphasizing that what he wants may take work because it's hard -- BUT that you also have faith he can do it.
Be the soft place to land. I didn't have one, and landing without one really hurts.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:28 AM on November 4, 2009 [11 favorites]
My mother's advice didn't work as a reality check -- only going to college and trying out actor training could do that. Instead, my mother emphasizing how I may NOT make it as an actor convinced me that "holy shit, my own mother doesn't have faith in me."
I am almost 40 and I am still trying to recover from how much that belief hurt me.
The rest of the world will give this kid plenty of reality checks when it comes to how hard acting is. What he needs are people who will say "yeah, true, it's hard, but I really believe that if you really work at it, you've got a shot, so go for it." Because THOSE people are few and far between. And if you don't have them around when you're a teenager, you end up believing there is something fundamentally wrong with YOU rather than it being the profession that's just hard.
As much as I roll my eyes at Dr. Phil, something he said about the role a support system should play for kids struck me -- ideally, a kid's family should be "a soft place to land" when the outside world beats them down. Not in a molly-coddling unrealistic sense -- but in emphasizing that what he wants may take work because it's hard -- BUT that you also have faith he can do it.
Be the soft place to land. I didn't have one, and landing without one really hurts.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:28 AM on November 4, 2009 [11 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks, folks! To be clear, I don't want to dissuade him from anything! I think it's great that he wants to go to the arts high school (auditions are in the new year, so keep your fingers crossed!), and I know from my own friends (and the five years I spent working at a music conservatory) that going to an arts high school doesn't close any doors at all.
The question was more about "if you take a kid seriously, do you discuss with them the potential roadblocks they face in pursuit of their dreams, or do you let them find out themselves?" It sounds like the consensus is to just let him find out on his own. I'm more than happy not to be the bearer of bad tidings.
However, the catch is that if I can't get him to take other things seriously and apply to other schools, he could end up not getting into the arts school and then being assigned by default to a really bad school. As I said above, I'm taking on faith that he's a good actor and I know he is a great kid. His enthusiasm is great--I just want him to keep his options open.
One approach is to get him to keep in mind that he can still study acting at college even if he goes another school, but to get him to think about other schools is a tacit recognition that he might not get into the arts school. I'm not in a position to take him anywhere, but I do want to get materials on the acting/theatre/film programs you've suggested above.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:46 AM on November 4, 2009
The question was more about "if you take a kid seriously, do you discuss with them the potential roadblocks they face in pursuit of their dreams, or do you let them find out themselves?" It sounds like the consensus is to just let him find out on his own. I'm more than happy not to be the bearer of bad tidings.
However, the catch is that if I can't get him to take other things seriously and apply to other schools, he could end up not getting into the arts school and then being assigned by default to a really bad school. As I said above, I'm taking on faith that he's a good actor and I know he is a great kid. His enthusiasm is great--I just want him to keep his options open.
One approach is to get him to keep in mind that he can still study acting at college even if he goes another school, but to get him to think about other schools is a tacit recognition that he might not get into the arts school. I'm not in a position to take him anywhere, but I do want to get materials on the acting/theatre/film programs you've suggested above.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 8:46 AM on November 4, 2009
Praise effort, not talent or possibilities. See this perceptive NY Times Article.
posted by KRS at 9:03 AM on November 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by KRS at 9:03 AM on November 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
It's a great idea to have him do research, too. American University has a film program and Catholic University is very well known for theatre and drama. Being a big fish in a small pond can be a very good thing.
posted by jgirl at 9:06 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by jgirl at 9:06 AM on November 4, 2009
I taught in an arts-focused careers program for highschoolers last year, and the tack I took was "ok, you want to be a [x -- usually fashion designer] and that's great, but let's look at some skills you can learn that will help you earn a living on your way there." So we learned some skills, discussed how to sell stuff online (Etsy.com, etc), how to take great product photos, etc. If you want to encourage but also be practical, help him figure out not only how to get exactly where he's going...arts school + college + etc...but also things that will sustain him along the way. For any non "traditional" career with a fuzzy path, it's good to have fallback skills to earn money along the way.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:06 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by bitter-girl.com at 9:06 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Can he apply to multiple schools within the system? One thing you might do is help him figure out which other schools have good performing arts programs, even if that is not the entire focus of the school. That way, he'll have other options than the really bad automatic placement, and he can still focus on performance.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:10 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ocherdraco at 9:10 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
NYU Tisch grad here.
You should support his interests, but also let him know the reality of what school will entail and what life after school will entail. Encourage him to practice and to encourage him to look up the stories of actors who've finally made it.
I would also encourage you to encourage him to keep his mind open for a broad range of study, in addition to his study of acting. A double major will prepare him better for the inevitable lag between "I'm 22 and there are hundred million 22-year-old kids with BFAs in acting" and "I'm 26 and I've made friends and professional connections and I might have a snowball's chance in hell."
In addition, a wide range of interests and life experiences will better prepare him for what will ultimately be better acting. None of the people I know who've "made it" to any appreciable degree were the single-minded drama queens whose entire lives were made up of movies and TV.
Furthermore, if you're not ready to work hard enough to earn a double degree, then you're not ready to work hard enough to make it as an actor with a single degree.
Being brutal with regard to his chances can go hand in hand with encouraging him to do his very best, by the way, but if you don't know how to finesse it, then just limit it to encouraging him.
Either way, he's 14, and not 18. It would be lousy to quash his dreams at this age, and besides, the skills from pursuing an acting career can parlay in so many ways into other "practical" endeavors.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:16 AM on November 4, 2009
You should support his interests, but also let him know the reality of what school will entail and what life after school will entail. Encourage him to practice and to encourage him to look up the stories of actors who've finally made it.
I would also encourage you to encourage him to keep his mind open for a broad range of study, in addition to his study of acting. A double major will prepare him better for the inevitable lag between "I'm 22 and there are hundred million 22-year-old kids with BFAs in acting" and "I'm 26 and I've made friends and professional connections and I might have a snowball's chance in hell."
In addition, a wide range of interests and life experiences will better prepare him for what will ultimately be better acting. None of the people I know who've "made it" to any appreciable degree were the single-minded drama queens whose entire lives were made up of movies and TV.
Furthermore, if you're not ready to work hard enough to earn a double degree, then you're not ready to work hard enough to make it as an actor with a single degree.
Being brutal with regard to his chances can go hand in hand with encouraging him to do his very best, by the way, but if you don't know how to finesse it, then just limit it to encouraging him.
Either way, he's 14, and not 18. It would be lousy to quash his dreams at this age, and besides, the skills from pursuing an acting career can parlay in so many ways into other "practical" endeavors.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:16 AM on November 4, 2009
Praise effort, not talent or possibilities. See this perceptive NY Times Article.
A million times this. There is a great actor inside so many people. However, there are plenty of not-great actors all over TV. Why? Luck, connections, and the fact that they want it more.
Being a big fish in a small pond can be a very good thing.
This, too. Go on scholarship to a smaller program, distinguish yourself, and use the money you save to launch yourself in a larger place.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:20 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
A million times this. There is a great actor inside so many people. However, there are plenty of not-great actors all over TV. Why? Luck, connections, and the fact that they want it more.
Being a big fish in a small pond can be a very good thing.
This, too. Go on scholarship to a smaller program, distinguish yourself, and use the money you save to launch yourself in a larger place.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:20 AM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: KRS, that's an interesting article--thanks for posting it.
Ocherdraco, that's a good point, too--I'll see if I can track down that information. He can, indeed, apply to multiple schools--the problem with the kids, though, is that they often want to apply to one or two only, as schools tend tend to require an application essay, and it just seems like more work to them. (Of course, we're trying to get the kids to realize that the same essay can be tweaked and used for multiple schools.)
Stitcherbeast, that's helpful, too. I'll see if I can get him to think about how his favorite actors made it when I next see him. He can draw his own conclusions about what their stories have to tell him about his own life.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:35 AM on November 4, 2009
Ocherdraco, that's a good point, too--I'll see if I can track down that information. He can, indeed, apply to multiple schools--the problem with the kids, though, is that they often want to apply to one or two only, as schools tend tend to require an application essay, and it just seems like more work to them. (Of course, we're trying to get the kids to realize that the same essay can be tweaked and used for multiple schools.)
Stitcherbeast, that's helpful, too. I'll see if I can get him to think about how his favorite actors made it when I next see him. He can draw his own conclusions about what their stories have to tell him about his own life.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 9:35 AM on November 4, 2009
My stance on going into the arts is that it's a good idea to acquire some skills in an area you really enjoy so you have a way to make a living while you're trying to break in to the business and a Plan B in case you decide at 30 or 40 that it's never going to pan out.
Harrison Ford taught himself carpentry and supported himself as a cabinet maker for ten years until he started getting the big roles in his early thirties. He had the reputation of the best cabinet maker in Hollywood and was doing some work at George Lucas's house when he was asked to stand in and read some lines for an audition. He still spends half his time doing carpentry because he loves it.
Paula Begoun wanted to be an actress, and supported herself as a make up artist while she went the rounds of auditions. The acting didn't work out for her, but she found she was enjoying the makeup business and doing well at it, so she relinquished her acting aspirations and just concentrated on makeup artistry. Today she's a consumer advocate in the personal care product industry, has written a number of books, a website and a newsletter on how to choose and use good products, and has her own line of personal care products.
For a less illustrious example, a high school classmate of mine became an RMT after high school. She could set her own hours and make enough to live on in a relatively short work week. Now, at 35, and with a commendable if not A-list acting resume, she has spent the last few years a getting a B.A. and Master's in theatre so she can teach drama.
By contrast, another high school classmate of mine never got any other skills. She's also 35, and has a commendable resume just like my other classmate, but she does things like temp work, waitressing, and retail in order to get by (it gets harder for actors, and especially actresses, to get work as they age). And whenever she makes a good amount of money acting she blows it, so she has nothing but debt.
My 12-year-old niece Peaches Swan may be headed for a career in the arts so I've told her all this. There's no reason why anyone shouldn't pursue their ambitions in the arts — they just need to be practical and business-minded about it.
posted by orange swan at 9:35 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
Harrison Ford taught himself carpentry and supported himself as a cabinet maker for ten years until he started getting the big roles in his early thirties. He had the reputation of the best cabinet maker in Hollywood and was doing some work at George Lucas's house when he was asked to stand in and read some lines for an audition. He still spends half his time doing carpentry because he loves it.
Paula Begoun wanted to be an actress, and supported herself as a make up artist while she went the rounds of auditions. The acting didn't work out for her, but she found she was enjoying the makeup business and doing well at it, so she relinquished her acting aspirations and just concentrated on makeup artistry. Today she's a consumer advocate in the personal care product industry, has written a number of books, a website and a newsletter on how to choose and use good products, and has her own line of personal care products.
For a less illustrious example, a high school classmate of mine became an RMT after high school. She could set her own hours and make enough to live on in a relatively short work week. Now, at 35, and with a commendable if not A-list acting resume, she has spent the last few years a getting a B.A. and Master's in theatre so she can teach drama.
By contrast, another high school classmate of mine never got any other skills. She's also 35, and has a commendable resume just like my other classmate, but she does things like temp work, waitressing, and retail in order to get by (it gets harder for actors, and especially actresses, to get work as they age). And whenever she makes a good amount of money acting she blows it, so she has nothing but debt.
My 12-year-old niece Peaches Swan may be headed for a career in the arts so I've told her all this. There's no reason why anyone shouldn't pursue their ambitions in the arts — they just need to be practical and business-minded about it.
posted by orange swan at 9:35 AM on November 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
Oh, orange swan reminded me of a good angle!
One great thing that NYU instilled in us was ato have a strong liberal arts backing -- but the carrot they used to hook everyone was "see, if you know how to act AND do accounting/run a business/write/build things/etc./etc./etc., then you can start your OWN theater company and go to work for YOURSELVES rather than waiting for OTHER people to hire you."
That might be an EXCELLENT angle to take -- focusing on the academics because "then, see, you can start your OWN theater company, and if you're running your own theater you can hire yourself to be in all the shows if you want rather than jumping through the hoops of auditioning." That way math becomes "well, you need to be able to write a production budget, so...." and science becomes "hey, learning how electricity works means you can trouble shoot the lighting design" and English becomes "this will help you decide what plays you pick to do in your company."
But make it about the triple-threat aspect -- there are a lot of yutzes out there who can act. But if a theater company meets someone who can act AND help them write grants or do development, they will grab that person and pull them in the door.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:54 AM on November 4, 2009
One great thing that NYU instilled in us was ato have a strong liberal arts backing -- but the carrot they used to hook everyone was "see, if you know how to act AND do accounting/run a business/write/build things/etc./etc./etc., then you can start your OWN theater company and go to work for YOURSELVES rather than waiting for OTHER people to hire you."
That might be an EXCELLENT angle to take -- focusing on the academics because "then, see, you can start your OWN theater company, and if you're running your own theater you can hire yourself to be in all the shows if you want rather than jumping through the hoops of auditioning." That way math becomes "well, you need to be able to write a production budget, so...." and science becomes "hey, learning how electricity works means you can trouble shoot the lighting design" and English becomes "this will help you decide what plays you pick to do in your company."
But make it about the triple-threat aspect -- there are a lot of yutzes out there who can act. But if a theater company meets someone who can act AND help them write grants or do development, they will grab that person and pull them in the door.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:54 AM on November 4, 2009
Response by poster: Empress, that's a great angle. He's actually good at math, so the pitch of "math will help you keep track of your money when your a rich actor" is a great spoonful of sugar to keep him building his skills off the stage as he progresses through high school.
posted by Admiral Haddock at 10:00 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by Admiral Haddock at 10:00 AM on November 4, 2009
My daughter got the acting bug and went to an arts high school for theater. She is now at NYU in the Tisch theater program and having a great time.
Data point for you: she did not start at the arts high school as a freshman - she transferred in as a junior. She spent her first 2 years at a local high school which has a good theater program.
So - can you find out which public schools in your district are known for their good theater program? Then you talk to your 14-year-old about the arts school AND those other public high schools, and encourage him to work towards both. If he's not been in any school or community theater programs yet, it really might be hard to get into the arts school, but LOTS of really serious theater kids go to regular high school and take lots of theater classes and they still do well in the theater world.
Another thing for you to look at: summer programs for the arts. Tisch has one - my daughter attended it, and THAT'S what got her into Tisch as a college freshman, not the fact that she went to an arts high school.
And another thing: College Fair for Performing/Visual Arts
Look on this website and see if there will be a College Fair in your area. You can also get a list of the colleges that recruit for performing arts, so those are likely the ones that have really good theater departments. And you can look at these colleges to see if they have a summer program for high school students.
So my vote is to YAY!! encourage the theater/acting bug but also emphasize other ways to get there in addition to the arts high school.
(On preview - I had to go to a meeting between the time I wrote this and then posted it. Some of my points have already been made, but I'm still posting to offer the additional points and the links that I found)
posted by CathyG at 10:03 AM on November 4, 2009
Data point for you: she did not start at the arts high school as a freshman - she transferred in as a junior. She spent her first 2 years at a local high school which has a good theater program.
So - can you find out which public schools in your district are known for their good theater program? Then you talk to your 14-year-old about the arts school AND those other public high schools, and encourage him to work towards both. If he's not been in any school or community theater programs yet, it really might be hard to get into the arts school, but LOTS of really serious theater kids go to regular high school and take lots of theater classes and they still do well in the theater world.
Another thing for you to look at: summer programs for the arts. Tisch has one - my daughter attended it, and THAT'S what got her into Tisch as a college freshman, not the fact that she went to an arts high school.
And another thing: College Fair for Performing/Visual Arts
Look on this website and see if there will be a College Fair in your area. You can also get a list of the colleges that recruit for performing arts, so those are likely the ones that have really good theater departments. And you can look at these colleges to see if they have a summer program for high school students.
So my vote is to YAY!! encourage the theater/acting bug but also emphasize other ways to get there in addition to the arts high school.
(On preview - I had to go to a meeting between the time I wrote this and then posted it. Some of my points have already been made, but I'm still posting to offer the additional points and the links that I found)
posted by CathyG at 10:03 AM on November 4, 2009
It depends what he and you mean by "actor".
Fame and big bucks as a Hollywood star? You're more likely to win the lottery.
But plenty of actors find fulfillment working in small theatre or TV productions, eeking out a modest living while doing what they love to do. If that interests him, by all means encourage him.
posted by randomstriker at 10:12 AM on November 4, 2009
Fame and big bucks as a Hollywood star? You're more likely to win the lottery.
But plenty of actors find fulfillment working in small theatre or TV productions, eeking out a modest living while doing what they love to do. If that interests him, by all means encourage him.
posted by randomstriker at 10:12 AM on November 4, 2009
Nthing what everyone else says. Let people follow their dreams. This applies not just to kids, but to grown-ups too.
I would actually go a step further maybe:
Explain to him there will be jerks along the way who will try to crush his dreams and give him that goddamn speech about, "if you can do anything else besides act, you should." (And oh, will he hear that speech.) Explain to him that following your dreams is worthwhile in itself, even if you never make a ton of money. This way you can brush on the drawbacks, but also highlight why it's good to go for it anyway.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:08 AM on November 4, 2009
I would actually go a step further maybe:
Explain to him there will be jerks along the way who will try to crush his dreams and give him that goddamn speech about, "if you can do anything else besides act, you should." (And oh, will he hear that speech.) Explain to him that following your dreams is worthwhile in itself, even if you never make a ton of money. This way you can brush on the drawbacks, but also highlight why it's good to go for it anyway.
posted by drjimmy11 at 11:08 AM on November 4, 2009
Orange swan and EmpressCallipygos beat me to it. Acting skill combined with something else--business skills, science skills, math skills, writing and research skills, etc.--can make you even more desirable to a production when you're starting out. Being able to perform in front of the camera as well as work the camera/find the funding to rent the camera/publicize the production/etc. is invaluable for any actor, and will better enable him to pursue his dreams.
posted by magstheaxe at 11:37 AM on November 4, 2009
posted by magstheaxe at 11:37 AM on November 4, 2009
You may also want to point out that as a working actor you audition for everything, not just the one part that you really want to get. This may help in convincing him to apply for more than one school. Surely one of the most important skills as a working actor is flexibility and back up plans.
posted by kjs4 at 4:09 PM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by kjs4 at 4:09 PM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Skimming here, so sorry if it's repeating, but here's my take:
At 14 I used to tell everyone I was going to be a famous actress. I wanted that enough to let my orthodontist file down my front teeth to give me a "movie star smile" (mom was *not* impressed). Anyway, my mom was generally supportive, and I ended up in a performing arts high school for 12th grade, where I decided I didn't want to be at the beck of shitty directors. Anyway, from that experience, I would say:
1) Encourage him in his auditioning, and remind him that "any audition you walk away from is a successful audition". The main part of the work of acting at the beginning is just putting yourself out there over and over again until something works. Every time you put yourself out there, you are making positive steps towards your goal.
2) Learn as much as you can about as much as you can. The more knowledge you have to draw on about the world, the more you have to put into your acting. If you're young, the best substitute for life experience is a breadth of interests, so don't neglect high school English, Biology, Social Science, etc.
3) Acting is a difficult career choice. One of the best pieces of advice, one that has served me well in making other hard choices in life, has been "if there's anything else you love to do, do that instead." I didn't want to hear it at 17 when I was in acting class, but its come back to me time and again. It's a nice thing when you've found the thing that makes you happiest, to be able to get through the tough times by reflecting on what else would make you happy and realize that sucky as this moment is, this is what you want to be doing overall.
In general, I don't think that 14 is the time for too many "hard truths" about acting or any other career. Exploring options, finding out what one's interests are, and forming plans for the future (no matter how impractical they may be) are what is important at this stage.
posted by carmen at 5:41 PM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
At 14 I used to tell everyone I was going to be a famous actress. I wanted that enough to let my orthodontist file down my front teeth to give me a "movie star smile" (mom was *not* impressed). Anyway, my mom was generally supportive, and I ended up in a performing arts high school for 12th grade, where I decided I didn't want to be at the beck of shitty directors. Anyway, from that experience, I would say:
1) Encourage him in his auditioning, and remind him that "any audition you walk away from is a successful audition". The main part of the work of acting at the beginning is just putting yourself out there over and over again until something works. Every time you put yourself out there, you are making positive steps towards your goal.
2) Learn as much as you can about as much as you can. The more knowledge you have to draw on about the world, the more you have to put into your acting. If you're young, the best substitute for life experience is a breadth of interests, so don't neglect high school English, Biology, Social Science, etc.
3) Acting is a difficult career choice. One of the best pieces of advice, one that has served me well in making other hard choices in life, has been "if there's anything else you love to do, do that instead." I didn't want to hear it at 17 when I was in acting class, but its come back to me time and again. It's a nice thing when you've found the thing that makes you happiest, to be able to get through the tough times by reflecting on what else would make you happy and realize that sucky as this moment is, this is what you want to be doing overall.
In general, I don't think that 14 is the time for too many "hard truths" about acting or any other career. Exploring options, finding out what one's interests are, and forming plans for the future (no matter how impractical they may be) are what is important at this stage.
posted by carmen at 5:41 PM on November 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
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posted by Go Banana at 8:02 AM on November 4, 2009