Swiss Army Knife of Language

October 27, 2009 10:19 PM

What are the pros and cons of learning more than one language? How can one adapt to a multi-language world?

I'm in Korea now, have been in Cuba, and have been surrounded by many languages and cultures. I have learned bits and pieces of a few languages; however, I'm not a master of any--even English. Here in Korea, most people are focused on learning English; however, so many seem to be struggling. When I was in Cuba, so many people spoke four or more languages, and many were quite good--even children.

I know there are obvious benefits to learning many languages; however, what are some disadvantages? From my understanding, people's vocabularies in both languages might be limited if they become bilingual or more. How much of a deficit would there be? Is it major or minor?

Are there ways that learning a third or fourth language will benefit the second learning processes, or is it usually a distraction? For example, when I try to speak Spanish, my Korean takes over and I get entirely confused. Is it really best to focus on one language and then move onto the next? Are there any shortcuts? Can limitations be overcome?

My ideal is to learn bits of as many languages as possible. I'd like to be mostly fluent in 2-3, but be able to at least say some things in many languages. What is the best way of doing this?

I also want to offer advice to my friends and students about how they can study various languages more effectively.

It seems that we are living in an international world where knowing some basics of many languages is very beneficial; however, I haven't found any good websites that focus on learning many languages at once.

How can I build a swiss army knife of language?

posted by Knigel to Writing & Language (25 answers total)

When I was in Cuba, so many people spoke four or more languages, and many were quite good--even children.

You can learn an arbitrary number of languages as a child during the critical period. It happens totally automatically. Kids in bilingual households usually pick up both languages, and people in polylingual countries often do the same. For instance, in the Bahamas, most people speak three or four languages... because everybody else does, and they pick them up from a young age.

It's actually much harder to pick up multiple languages as an adult.

However, what are some disadvantages? From my understanding, people's vocabularies in both languages might be limited if they become bilingual or more. How much of a deficit would there be? Is it major or minor?

I can't think of any disadvantages. My vocabulary in English grew as I learned French (although those are related languages). I really can't imagine why learning Tagalog would cause me to forget English words.

Now, I can imagine that studying a new language might take time away from practicing an old one. So if you think you're proficient in Esperanto, and move on to learning Swahili, you might not practice your Esperanto as much and so thereby forget your vocabulary and conjugations.

For example, when I try to speak Spanish, my Korean takes over and I get entirely confused.

I know lots of polyglots who complain about this. Even people who are naturally bilingual sometimes have issues with this, answering in one language a question asked in a different one.

What I've noticed, however, is that it's far less of a problem when you're in an immersion environment. I had no temptation to speak Spanish when I was in France. On the other hand, in Spanish class, I was always lapsing into French--and vice-versa.

It's also an issue of proficiency. The better you get at a language, the less you speak it by coding from your native language. In other words, you "think" in the target language, instead of composing in your native tongue and then translating to the target language. When you stop composing in English, and instead compose in Spanish, there's less chance for you to get confused and translate to Korean instead.
posted by Netzapper at 10:31 PM on October 27, 2009

I had a boss who was from Japan, and we discussed her learning English, which was school-driven most of her life until she was actually working in the U.S.

She felt it was a zero-sum game (she actually used that phrase), that the more English she learned, the more Japanese she forgot. It's not that she forgot vocabulary or grammar, but she felt the finer points of Japanese were being lost to her, like the particular dialect of Japanese one uses in the boardroom when talking to superiors. She wasn't so much forgetting Japanese as her Japanese was losing its finely honed edge from lack of use and practice.
posted by fatbird at 10:42 PM on October 27, 2009

There is absolutely no deficit or drawback to learning multiple languages. The more languages you learn, the more language you can learn. I do not think there is any greater intellectual stimulant than learning new languages.

This is one of the very, very few things that I will allow myself to speak absolutely about.
posted by krilli at 10:43 PM on October 27, 2009

English is my first language, then 9 years of French immersion, 3 years of German and a few months of Spanish. My English is pretty good and my French is passable (it gets better in Montreal) but my German is pretty rusty. I always felt like there was only room for one or two complete languages in my head. The more French I learned, the worse my English etc. There are still times when I can only think of a specific word in a language other than what I'm using. It can be pretty confusing for everyone involved.
posted by sgrass at 11:04 PM on October 27, 2009

Also, it sometimes takes me an extra minute to figure out which words do or do not need to be capitalized.
posted by sgrass at 11:06 PM on October 27, 2009

I can't really think of any disadvantages, and I speak plenty of languages. My best may be English, which I've only learned in the past fifteen years, entirely as an adult. The zero-sum game opinion seems absurd, but I will say this: in the time I've learned English, I've forgotten much of my native language (Serbo-Croatian.) I can still speak and understand it, but my grammar's become atrocious and I forget a disturbing amount of words. Recently, my pronunciation has been criticized. To give on recent example, I couldn't - after hours of pondering it - remember the word for "spider" (which is "pauka"), despite knowing full well that "spider" was "pók" in Hungarian - obviously sharing a root there somewhere. It wouldn't seem to be from lack of use either, since my French, which I learned as a child, remains as good as it ever was.

But advice for learning several: don't overdo it. Learn one from nothing to basic level. Move on to another. Move on to a third. Go back to that first one, review basic level and work on it until you're at the intermediate level. Then do the same for the second language. That's what I do, for the most part, and it works for me. I have about a day's worth of trouble "switching" from one language to another when I'm immersed in it, but it snaps back pretty quickly after that. It all just takes a lot of practice and diligence.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 11:11 PM on October 27, 2009

Krilli, I don't really know if the evidence from psychology supports that. Also from my own experience, learning other languages has deteriorated my own English. For example, while in Canada, my friends would look at me very strangely when I started saying "응" (ng) instinctually instead of the usual "uh huh". Living in Korea has totally changed my language and grammar. sometimes I don't even know what's right anymore and have to second guess some of the most basic things. Thinking in different grammar has definitely had an affect on my native tongue.

Also, from my understanding, learning languages in one's youth seems to be empirically supported to be better than learning when one is older; therefore, the languages that the child learns would probably influence future language e.g., learning English would be easier from Spanish than from Mandarin. As stated above as well, learning one language means that time is taken away from another, hence, smaller vocabulary of that language than another person who focused on one language.
posted by Knigel at 11:20 PM on October 27, 2009

Also, does anyone know of any big names and psychological theories of language or poly-lingual learning? e.g., Piaget, Chomsky, etc. I love all of the experiential reports that people are posting, but I'd also like to read empirical/scientific research. Allof these answers have been great and many reflect my own experiences. Anyone out there have experience learning many drastically different languages? Swahili-->Cantonese-->Spanish-->etc? How was the experience? How difficult was it?
posted by Knigel at 11:49 PM on October 27, 2009

I've actually come to a level where my vocabulary in English is better than my mother tongue (Norwegian). To be fair, it still remains well above average, but I find myself forgetting the simplest of words.

Studying Chinese, I have an annoying problem I never encountered with English. It takes me forever to learn a word well enough for it to stick, especially the meaning and usage. I suppose the compounded effort required to learn is taking its toll; pronunciation (seldom related to the appearance of a character in any way a learner would understand without years of experience), how to write it - itself a tad more involved than writing words - and of course the nuances of its usage.

Now imagine that you, a learner of Chinese, have just the previous day encountered the Chinese word for "president" (总统 zǒngtǒng) and want to write it. What processes do you go through in retrieving the word? Well, very often you just totally forget, with a forgetting that is both absolute and perfect in a way few things in this life are. You can repeat the word as often as you like; the sound won't give you a clue as to how the character is to be written.
David Moser, "Why Chinese is So Damn Hard".

I still recommend learning other languages. It's great (arduous) fun, and it remains an ultimately rewarding endeavour.
posted by flippant at 11:59 PM on October 27, 2009

Try this forum, which is full of wannabe or actual polyglots who have discussed this at length.
posted by snoogles at 12:13 AM on October 28, 2009

One immediate disadvantage I can think of is time. I think I'm pretty good at learning, and pretty good at languages, and I'm told I'm a good student. But I still spend a lot of time studying. I happen to think it's time well spent, but it's still time gone forever.

Another problem I have already encountered is miscommunication from having intermediate level proficiency. When you know a language at babytalk level, you are forgiven for being ungrammatical, and if you say something stupid or offensive or with an ambiguous meaning, other people forgive you. When you have intermediate level proficiency you can get into a lot of trouble as people begin to assume you understand everything.

The last thing i can think of is that in some way, learning another language well changes you. To some degree, you must absorb the outlook of its speakers and leave your own culture behind. I happen to think this is a good thing but I can imagine it being traumatic for some people.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:20 AM on October 28, 2009

Krilli, I don't really know if the evidence from psychology supports that. Also from my own experience, learning other languages has deteriorated my own English.

Don't have much time, so my words will be brief, but I must state that I mean all due respect.

1: Got references to that psychology stuff?

2: And were you practising the English as you were learning other languages? In my view, anything you do not practise will deteriorate – regardless of whether you're picking up new skills in the mean time.

I'll be absolute again: Limiting yourself to only one language is one of the few truly foolish things to do in this world. Sorry if this is harsh.
posted by krilli at 12:26 AM on October 28, 2009

All the research I saw doing undergrad papers on foreign language learning said that it was considered beneficial for the first language.

First result in google is this book: http://www-writing.berkeley.edu/TESl-EJ/ej17/r18.html
posted by jacalata at 12:50 AM on October 28, 2009

All the research I saw doing undergrad papers on foreign language learning said that it was considered beneficial for the first language.

That is putting it too black and white. A decisive part of learning a second, third, etc. language plays, a] what your proficiency in your first language, b] what the quality of the sources is you're learning your extra language[s] from.

If you're not that good in your first language, for instance because you never have to write in it, that language can deteriorate, in the confusion that comes with learning the new language. However, if you are already good in you native tongue, the new language may learn you more about that, as you suddenly become more aware of its grammar.
posted by ijsbrand at 1:34 AM on October 28, 2009

OK, I'll buy that, isjbrand. Thanks.
posted by krilli at 1:38 AM on October 28, 2009

Steven Pinker's The Language Instinct is a great read about language.

I agree with the immersion comments; especially challenging is switching from similar languages.

The flavor of a language gives insight into a different culture and perspective, it's fascinating!

The only con about being multi-lingual is that I cannot do crossword puzzles anymore.
My mind automatically starts a translation search...
posted by slagertje at 3:40 AM on October 28, 2009

It's actually much harder to pick up multiple languages as an adult.

True, but kids get much more practice and _time with the language_ than adults. They are also more motivated and less scared of failure. Most comparisons leave that out.

Learning a new language opens your mind.
posted by devnull at 3:45 AM on October 28, 2009

I would nth most of the other advice here and add: from my experience it's very beneficial to have one main second language for which you learn ideally all the grammar and enough vocabulary to say anything, or at least circumvent the need to know the technical words.

I would even suggest learning about the poetry, history, basically the culture that is tied to that language.

That way you also have a deep understanding of grammar and language per se which will act as a core holding your other languages together, even if they are less "deeply" understood and felt.
posted by KMH at 3:53 AM on October 28, 2009

Lately I've been reading The Brain That Changes Itself, by Norman Doidge. I can't speak for how accurate any of this is, but the argument behind it does sort of jive with my experience. Emphases are the author's.

"Competitive plasticity in adults even explains some of our limitations. Think of the difficulty most adults have in learning a second language. The conventional view now is that the difficulty arises because the critical period for language learning has ended, leaving us with a brain too rigid to change its structure on a large scale. But the discovery of competitive plasticity suggests there is more to it. As we age, the more we use our native language, the more it comes to dominate our linguistic map space. Thus it is also because our brain is plastic - and because plasticity is competitive - that it is so hard to learn a new language and end the tyranny of the mother tongue.

"But why, if this is true, is it easier to learn a second language when we are young? Is there not competition then too? Not really. If two languages are learned at the same time, during the critical period, both get a foothold. Brain scans, says [Michael] Merzenich, show that in a bilingual child all the sounds of its two languages share a single large map, a library of sounds from both languages."
posted by lauranesson at 4:54 AM on October 28, 2009

I oughtta come back and say that in no way do I mean to argue that learning a second/third language is a bad idea. I'm working on a third lately and dabbling in another, rigid brain structure be damned.
posted by lauranesson at 4:57 AM on October 28, 2009

I think both Nabokov and Joseph Conrad are strong counter-examples to the idea that being multi-lingual confers any kind of disadvantage. Nabokov wrote his first novels in Russian. Conrad spoke with a Polish accent. Yet they are considered two of the greatest writers of English prose.

Are there ways that learning a third or fourth language will benefit the second learning processes, or is it usually a distraction? For example, when I try to speak Spanish, my Korean takes over and I get entirely confused. Is it really best to focus on one language and then move onto the next? Are there any shortcuts? Can limitations be overcome?

I do think its best to at least become comfortable with a language before moving on to the next. I speak English and Spanish natively. Then later acquired French then Italian and most recently Portuguese.

If you're confusing Spanish with Korean then its because they are both competing with a slot called "new language" in your brain. Thats the best I can explain it. When I first started learning Portuguese, it felt like a bunch of words I had to memorize and then I had to laboriously construct sentences and grasp for vocabulary words. Like a math problem, it just feels like you're manipulating symbols.

Then at some point there was a "switch" in my brain where I simply started speaking Portuguese. I was fluent enough to just communicate rather than construct. The other day I was simply chatting with my wife's parents and only afterward was told "Do you know you were just making up jokes in Portuguese! My dad was really impressed!" I think there's now a "Portuguese" slot in my brain (and its pleasant not painful!) And only now would I consider moving on to a new language.
posted by vacapinta at 5:19 AM on October 28, 2009

As far as research goes, there's quite a lot out there. I took a psycholingustics seminar once with Judith Kroll at Penn State, who studies this sort of thing. One of her recent papers is available online, and you could follow those references. Ellen Bialystok is another big name in bilingualism. We read research papers for the class (including on first- and second-language interference, and cognitive benefits of bilingualism) but there must be a more accessible presentation of the material available somewhere.
posted by serathen at 6:32 AM on October 28, 2009

MeFi's own Lore has this ancient and wonderfully snarky guide to the usefulness of other languages.
posted by Confess, Fletch at 7:11 AM on October 28, 2009

> From my understanding, people's vocabularies in both languages might be limited if they become bilingual or more. How much of a deficit would there be? Is it major or minor?

Not true. You write:

Living in Korea has totally changed my language and grammar. sometimes I don't even know what's right anymore and have to second guess some of the most basic things.

I had the same experience when I was teaching English in Taiwan; it's very common in a situation when you're spending a lot of time around people who don't know your language well. Trust me, when you get back among English-speakers, you'll find your command of the language is unimpaired.

Learning other languages is not only good for cultural understanding, it's one of the best mental exercises there is.
posted by languagehat at 7:40 AM on October 28, 2009

Lore is on MeFi?! The Internet is a small world.
posted by KMH at 10:00 AM on October 28, 2009