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October 18, 2009 3:24 PM
How do you disarm a conspiracy theorist that continually jumps into any barely relevant conversation?
On a message board I go to we have a full blown, tinfoil hat wearing, crazy, new world order type conspiracy theorist. Now he already has his giant thread of "seeking the truth" (I'm serious that's the title of it) but his crazy has started to spread into barely relevant conversation.
The lastest is a page and a half of YouTube clips of other conspiracy theorists discussing the upcoming fall of the US and enslavement of the world in a thread about importing from the US with the slide in the US dollar.
How do you disarm people like this and just getting them to stop trashing threads they walk into thinking they're opening the eyes of the sheeples?
On a message board I go to we have a full blown, tinfoil hat wearing, crazy, new world order type conspiracy theorist. Now he already has his giant thread of "seeking the truth" (I'm serious that's the title of it) but his crazy has started to spread into barely relevant conversation.
The lastest is a page and a half of YouTube clips of other conspiracy theorists discussing the upcoming fall of the US and enslavement of the world in a thread about importing from the US with the slide in the US dollar.
How do you disarm people like this and just getting them to stop trashing threads they walk into thinking they're opening the eyes of the sheeples?
Well, I can tell you how we do things on MetaFilter. We pretty much ignore the "facts" of whatever they're talking about and pretty much tell people they have to stick to the topic. So, you can have guidelines against derails, against pernicious memes popping up everywhere, and against topic creep or whatever. If people are replying, in good faith, to one of the threads topics, that's fine. If every political thread turns into a GOOGLE RON PAUL! derail, we nip it in the bud in the interests of not inhibiting discussion.
I'm not sure if you run this board or just attend, but sometimes you can do this without admin privileges if you have a few people who also want to see this happen. Since the guy has his own thread set up, you can gently direct his conspiracy-minded posts towards that thread if they start popping up in other threads. Or talk to the site admin and ask for suggestions, since a lot of what need to happen wil be based on the guidelines of the site you're posting on.
And as much as it seems like the thing to do, usually trying to refute and debate the conspiracy theory facts isn't a good use of anyone's time.
posted by jessamyn at 3:29 PM on October 18, 2009
I'm not sure if you run this board or just attend, but sometimes you can do this without admin privileges if you have a few people who also want to see this happen. Since the guy has his own thread set up, you can gently direct his conspiracy-minded posts towards that thread if they start popping up in other threads. Or talk to the site admin and ask for suggestions, since a lot of what need to happen wil be based on the guidelines of the site you're posting on.
And as much as it seems like the thing to do, usually trying to refute and debate the conspiracy theory facts isn't a good use of anyone's time.
posted by jessamyn at 3:29 PM on October 18, 2009
Ignore their claims and continue responding to, and engaging with, the non-conspiratorially-minded people on the board.
posted by mdonley at 3:29 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by mdonley at 3:29 PM on October 18, 2009
Do you have any authority there? If not please pretend that I said you should ask someone who does to follow this advice.
Get him to stop hijacking threads. Delete posts and keep deleting them until he gets that he can't take over threads like that.
Unless there's some other forum rule you've got to let him have his own thread though, and have his say in threads where this stuff can come up logically. It seems like you don't have too much of an issue with this though.
posted by theichibun at 3:31 PM on October 18, 2009
Get him to stop hijacking threads. Delete posts and keep deleting them until he gets that he can't take over threads like that.
Unless there's some other forum rule you've got to let him have his own thread though, and have his say in threads where this stuff can come up logically. It seems like you don't have too much of an issue with this though.
posted by theichibun at 3:31 PM on October 18, 2009
I don't have admin privs and I don't debate him as I don't really care nor have an opinion and it would be a waste of everyone's time. There are a few other people that feel the same way but none with any real authority.
posted by Talez at 3:34 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by Talez at 3:34 PM on October 18, 2009
I've known someone like this in real life and 'disarming' them is very hard to do. Any good conspiracy theory lacks any falsifiability. They accept all of the supporting evidence as proof of the theory, and any contrary evidence is just an example of how far reaching and well orchestrated the conspiracy actually is. You could try to get them to demonstrate falsifiability, that is instead of providing more proof, ask what it would take to convince them their theory wasn't true. However, I'd say the only way to really control this online is to have good moderators who are willing to ban someone if they are really wrecking threads.
This is of course assuming that the conspiracy isn't true and I'm not actually in on it as well.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 3:39 PM on October 18, 2009
This is of course assuming that the conspiracy isn't true and I'm not actually in on it as well.
posted by Midnight Rambler at 3:39 PM on October 18, 2009
I don't really want him to abandon his beliefs though. I just want him to stop bringing it into every conversation.
posted by Talez at 3:59 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by Talez at 3:59 PM on October 18, 2009
Tell him that the CIA has been known to monitor the forum, and it'd be in his best interests to reveal his secret knowledge of the truth elsewhere - like in shady, underground bars, for example, or through anonymous pamphleteering.
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:09 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by UbuRoivas at 4:09 PM on October 18, 2009
Ignore them. It's the only means of disarming them. Your response is what they crave. It arms them to pay them any attention.
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:12 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by fourcheesemac at 4:12 PM on October 18, 2009
Ignore him. If that doesn't work, find another message board. It's just the Internet.
posted by ixohoxi at 4:35 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by ixohoxi at 4:35 PM on October 18, 2009
I recently had it out in IRC with a guy who was like that. Basically, he spouted off-topic nonsense fairly constantly about the most moonbat tinfoil-hat shit you can think of. Everyone kind of tolerated it because he did contribute to the channel's topic pretty regularly and had actually been around long enough to gain "admin" privileges (ops), but it seemed like a third of what he brought up was unrelated bullshit.
One day, he started claiming that only 600k people died in the holocaust, and that "the jews" were "exaggerating their misery for political gain". I stripped him of ops, and banned him from the channel.
I happened to be in channel when he went nutso, but even if I hadn't, I (and everyone else) knew his propensity for kooky bullshit, and wouldn't have been surprised to learn about it. Basically, we all knew it would happen one day, and we were all sick of it, but it took him crossing some sort of line to get him out. It basically boils down to inertia.
As a non-moderator, you've got a tricker line to walk - you want to keep things working smoothly in your community without coming off like you have an agenda or vendetta. That means if you approach the higher-ups, you need to have two things: 1) support for your case, and 2) the attitude that you want to improve the community. Do some digging, and find concrete examples of this guy crossing an easily-observed like. A good example would be threads where he's dropped unrelated bombs and derailed threads permanently. Show that he's a detriment to the community.
Then, stop caring. Seriously, inertia's a motherfucker and you might be the only one bothered. :)
posted by TheNewWazoo at 4:47 PM on October 18, 2009
One day, he started claiming that only 600k people died in the holocaust, and that "the jews" were "exaggerating their misery for political gain". I stripped him of ops, and banned him from the channel.
I happened to be in channel when he went nutso, but even if I hadn't, I (and everyone else) knew his propensity for kooky bullshit, and wouldn't have been surprised to learn about it. Basically, we all knew it would happen one day, and we were all sick of it, but it took him crossing some sort of line to get him out. It basically boils down to inertia.
As a non-moderator, you've got a tricker line to walk - you want to keep things working smoothly in your community without coming off like you have an agenda or vendetta. That means if you approach the higher-ups, you need to have two things: 1) support for your case, and 2) the attitude that you want to improve the community. Do some digging, and find concrete examples of this guy crossing an easily-observed like. A good example would be threads where he's dropped unrelated bombs and derailed threads permanently. Show that he's a detriment to the community.
Then, stop caring. Seriously, inertia's a motherfucker and you might be the only one bothered. :)
posted by TheNewWazoo at 4:47 PM on October 18, 2009
I asked a smiliar question a few years back and the best solution for me has been to use the "constant unrelenting ridicule approach" against any conspiracy.
Demonstration:
sinn82: wtf! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7014335.stm
me: LATEX CAUSES CANCER TOO!
sinn82: really?
me: YES, ALL THE PEOPLE THEY SENT TO THE MOON ACTUALLY DIED FROM LATEX CANCER AND NOT RADIATION
sinn82: holy sweet jesus fuck thats it Im starting a blog
me: it all won't matter once they begin the digitization of our water sources
sinn82: nooooooooooo
posted by furtive at 6:21 PM on October 18, 2009
Demonstration:
sinn82: wtf! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7014335.stm
me: LATEX CAUSES CANCER TOO!
sinn82: really?
me: YES, ALL THE PEOPLE THEY SENT TO THE MOON ACTUALLY DIED FROM LATEX CANCER AND NOT RADIATION
sinn82: holy sweet jesus fuck thats it Im starting a blog
me: it all won't matter once they begin the digitization of our water sources
sinn82: nooooooooooo
posted by furtive at 6:21 PM on October 18, 2009
I like to just agree with people like that and slowly lead the conversation somewhere totally absurd, along the lines of "Vietnam was just a coverup for the space aliens that landed in southeast Asia in order to lure us away from the gold standard."
posted by Slinga at 6:42 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by Slinga at 6:42 PM on October 18, 2009
I've been trying ridicule in the past without success hence the desire for some new strategies. I think complete ignorance will probably be the best way to go about it. Problem is these people take years to be bored since they think they're doing a public service.
posted by Talez at 7:15 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by Talez at 7:15 PM on October 18, 2009
Depending on the message board software, it may have an "ignore" feature built in.
If you use that and, crucially, encourage others to use it, then eventually your troll will be a voice shouting in the darkness.
If the software doesn't have an ignore feature, search around for greasemonkey scripts that do the same thing. If the software is popular enough, someone may have already had the same problem.
posted by madajb at 7:33 PM on October 18, 2009
If you use that and, crucially, encourage others to use it, then eventually your troll will be a voice shouting in the darkness.
If the software doesn't have an ignore feature, search around for greasemonkey scripts that do the same thing. If the software is popular enough, someone may have already had the same problem.
posted by madajb at 7:33 PM on October 18, 2009
Sadly, ignoring them won't work because there will always (and I do mean ALWAYS) be some idiot who won't ignore them. And, thus, the cycle continues.
Your options are:
Get frustrated.
Learn to not care.
Find another message board.
posted by 2oh1 at 12:03 AM on October 19, 2009
Your options are:
Get frustrated.
Learn to not care.
Find another message board.
posted by 2oh1 at 12:03 AM on October 19, 2009
I have to disagree with those of you that say it's attention they want. That's an oversimplification and in my opinion, a way of putting them in a category that's easy to ignore, by making it seem as though it's about their ego.
Conspiracy theorists are like everyone else: they want to help. They believe they've learned something rare and important, and that if you knew it too, and thought about its implications, that you would be able to put yourself in a better position to guard against whatever problem this knowledge describes. Giving them attention can make it seem as though you're taking what they say seriously, and that could be why it seems like attention is what they're really after.
First, I would consider if what they're saying is important, it might do you good to examine it. Most of the theories have a large chunk of truth in them, and its only examining the slippery slope, or extending the line on the graph that puts some people into a panic, or makes them take an otherwise good point a bit too far. But if hushing them on this particular subject is the goal, try being honest with them and letting them know that you recognize they're trying to help, but that this is the wrong place for it. Something like this: "We understand you're trying to warn us about something, but we come to this forum to relax or have fun, and you are making it difficult to do that. Can you tone down the warning, and bring it up less often? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but even honey painted all over everything is too much. The more you do this, the less we listen."
I think that mocking the person, including the increasingly ridiculous replies is just mean, and you'd probably be making yourself a worse person by giving in to the desire to put them down. Public ridicule is wrong. If they're otherwise a normal member of the tribe, shunning or ignoring is the social atom bomb, and should be saved for someone doing something bad or mean, not just being annoying. Being constantly annoying can cross the line into bad, though, so it's a judgment call. Take the high road though. I've found it's not the kind and understanding words that I regret.
posted by Katravax at 3:29 AM on October 19, 2009
Conspiracy theorists are like everyone else: they want to help. They believe they've learned something rare and important, and that if you knew it too, and thought about its implications, that you would be able to put yourself in a better position to guard against whatever problem this knowledge describes. Giving them attention can make it seem as though you're taking what they say seriously, and that could be why it seems like attention is what they're really after.
First, I would consider if what they're saying is important, it might do you good to examine it. Most of the theories have a large chunk of truth in them, and its only examining the slippery slope, or extending the line on the graph that puts some people into a panic, or makes them take an otherwise good point a bit too far. But if hushing them on this particular subject is the goal, try being honest with them and letting them know that you recognize they're trying to help, but that this is the wrong place for it. Something like this: "We understand you're trying to warn us about something, but we come to this forum to relax or have fun, and you are making it difficult to do that. Can you tone down the warning, and bring it up less often? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, but even honey painted all over everything is too much. The more you do this, the less we listen."
I think that mocking the person, including the increasingly ridiculous replies is just mean, and you'd probably be making yourself a worse person by giving in to the desire to put them down. Public ridicule is wrong. If they're otherwise a normal member of the tribe, shunning or ignoring is the social atom bomb, and should be saved for someone doing something bad or mean, not just being annoying. Being constantly annoying can cross the line into bad, though, so it's a judgment call. Take the high road though. I've found it's not the kind and understanding words that I regret.
posted by Katravax at 3:29 AM on October 19, 2009
This is a case where there is a technical solution: a ban from the board, a board feature to ignore certain users, or a greasemonkey script to remove their comments and a link to that script for everybody else who wants to ignore that user (==killfile).
posted by beerbajay at 3:57 AM on October 19, 2009
posted by beerbajay at 3:57 AM on October 19, 2009
I don't have admin privs and I don't debate him as I don't really care nor have an opinion and it would be a waste of everyone's time. There are a few other people that feel the same way but none with any real authority.
Have any of you approached the moderators of this board and asked them to do something? That's what they're there for.
What Jessamyn says is often what most responsible mods will do -- they'll separate the inherant nature of his commentary from the fact that it isn't germane to the topic at hand, and take a "we're not saying you can't tell us about the black helicopters, we're just saying that this conversation's about the Easter Bunny, so please stay on topic." And if he can't do that, then they'll have to ban him outright.
Most responsible mods do that, but they're also often swamped, and may have to be alerted to the fact that this is becoming An Issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:58 AM on October 19, 2009
Have any of you approached the moderators of this board and asked them to do something? That's what they're there for.
What Jessamyn says is often what most responsible mods will do -- they'll separate the inherant nature of his commentary from the fact that it isn't germane to the topic at hand, and take a "we're not saying you can't tell us about the black helicopters, we're just saying that this conversation's about the Easter Bunny, so please stay on topic." And if he can't do that, then they'll have to ban him outright.
Most responsible mods do that, but they're also often swamped, and may have to be alerted to the fact that this is becoming An Issue.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:58 AM on October 19, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by headspace at 3:29 PM on October 18, 2009