I don't know what to do with my family.
October 18, 2009 10:36 AM Subscribe
It's Sunday morning. My wife is surfing the Net. My 14-year-old stepson is playing World of Warcraft. My 5-year-old mildly autistic daughter is watching Cinderella.
This works, sort of. But it doesn't feel like being a family.
Since everyone else is doing their own thing, I'm posting to MeFi. If I weren't, I would probably be working. I'm a screenwriter, so that means I'd be working on a script or a pitch, or possibly watching a TV show I need to see for research. (Seriously. I watch a lot of stuff for work I wouldn't watch for pleasure.) Possibly I might go off and practice my guitar.
This works, in a way. But it doesn't feel like family life. I feel like on the weekend we should be doing something together. Or at least, I should be doing something with at least one kid.
It's difficult to find something both kids enjoy. My stepson doesn't really want to go out on the weekends; he wants to "relax." He's open to anything so long as it watching Buffy: The Vampire Slayer on DVD or playing World of Warcraft. Those are the only two activities he's interested in. Walking the dog, no. Throwing a ball, no. Bike riding, no. Museums, no. Books, no. Ideally, he'd like to play World of Warcraft all weekend long. When he's at his dad's, that's what he does.
My daughter is pretty easy, actually. She talks at about a 2 3/4 year level, but she's not rigid or hypersensitive. She's a happy person. She'll go on a walk with us, or to the supermarket. We took her to a dance performance last night and she liked it. At home, she sometimes likes having a book read to her; and these days she often likes to spell words with cut-out letters. But she can play educational computer games for four hours at a time.
My wife is also a writer, though less driven to work all the time than I am. Left to her own devices she'll cuddle up with her laptop and surf or write.
I feel like, left to their own devices, everyone would sit in front of a screen of some kind all weekend long. I know I would.
But I feel guilty if that happens. It's probably not great for an autistic kid to be left to disappear into an entertainment rather than relating to people. (To be fair, she gets four hours of therapy most weekend days, and that does wear her out a bit.) My stepson has a lot of Asperger's traits; he only has a couple of friends and he rarely sees them. Partly I feel guilty because I know that, left to my own devices, I would ignore everyone else and do my own thing. I probably would have been diagnosed as an Aspie when I was a kid, if anyone had heard of the term. I never had more than one close friend, and I played lots of wargames (paper maps and dice).
I feel like if I let everyone fall into TV's and screens, I'm being a bad Dad.
Am I? Or am I trying to enforce my own vision of how everyone should be? Am I just being a pain in the ass dad who wants everyone to do his thing instead of theirs?
Am I trying to overcompensate for my kids being on the autism spectrum? If they were neurotypical, would I even expect to spend any time with my teenager and 5 year old, or would I just chat with them now and then?
Or am I just too old skool, and what everyone does with their leisure time these days is play computer games and surf the net, and I'm just harking back to an imaginary time when dads played catch with their sons and all that?
Should I just get a grip, or should I keep agitating for doing things as a family?
What could I do with my family or my kids that I'm not thinking of?
Since everyone else is doing their own thing, I'm posting to MeFi. If I weren't, I would probably be working. I'm a screenwriter, so that means I'd be working on a script or a pitch, or possibly watching a TV show I need to see for research. (Seriously. I watch a lot of stuff for work I wouldn't watch for pleasure.) Possibly I might go off and practice my guitar.
This works, in a way. But it doesn't feel like family life. I feel like on the weekend we should be doing something together. Or at least, I should be doing something with at least one kid.
It's difficult to find something both kids enjoy. My stepson doesn't really want to go out on the weekends; he wants to "relax." He's open to anything so long as it watching Buffy: The Vampire Slayer on DVD or playing World of Warcraft. Those are the only two activities he's interested in. Walking the dog, no. Throwing a ball, no. Bike riding, no. Museums, no. Books, no. Ideally, he'd like to play World of Warcraft all weekend long. When he's at his dad's, that's what he does.
My daughter is pretty easy, actually. She talks at about a 2 3/4 year level, but she's not rigid or hypersensitive. She's a happy person. She'll go on a walk with us, or to the supermarket. We took her to a dance performance last night and she liked it. At home, she sometimes likes having a book read to her; and these days she often likes to spell words with cut-out letters. But she can play educational computer games for four hours at a time.
My wife is also a writer, though less driven to work all the time than I am. Left to her own devices she'll cuddle up with her laptop and surf or write.
I feel like, left to their own devices, everyone would sit in front of a screen of some kind all weekend long. I know I would.
But I feel guilty if that happens. It's probably not great for an autistic kid to be left to disappear into an entertainment rather than relating to people. (To be fair, she gets four hours of therapy most weekend days, and that does wear her out a bit.) My stepson has a lot of Asperger's traits; he only has a couple of friends and he rarely sees them. Partly I feel guilty because I know that, left to my own devices, I would ignore everyone else and do my own thing. I probably would have been diagnosed as an Aspie when I was a kid, if anyone had heard of the term. I never had more than one close friend, and I played lots of wargames (paper maps and dice).
I feel like if I let everyone fall into TV's and screens, I'm being a bad Dad.
Am I? Or am I trying to enforce my own vision of how everyone should be? Am I just being a pain in the ass dad who wants everyone to do his thing instead of theirs?
Am I trying to overcompensate for my kids being on the autism spectrum? If they were neurotypical, would I even expect to spend any time with my teenager and 5 year old, or would I just chat with them now and then?
Or am I just too old skool, and what everyone does with their leisure time these days is play computer games and surf the net, and I'm just harking back to an imaginary time when dads played catch with their sons and all that?
Should I just get a grip, or should I keep agitating for doing things as a family?
What could I do with my family or my kids that I'm not thinking of?
Go for walks or hikes together. Go to farmer's market. Make meals, pies, etc., together. See a play or concert--some form of live entertainment.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:42 AM on October 18, 2009
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:42 AM on October 18, 2009
I'm going to say the exact opposite of Happydaz. Let the kids alone to do what they want to do with their leisure time. Ditto your wife. If you want to go out to a museum, go, but don't subject them to your concept of what they should be doing with their downtime.
During an organized family vacation, or an organized and preplamed family weekend of togetherness? Sure, have at, drag them along, but make sure they have had some input into planning what you are doing AS A GROUP before hand.
Else-wise, it is their time, even if it is spent in physical co-location with you.
posted by strixus at 10:45 AM on October 18, 2009 [10 favorites]
During an organized family vacation, or an organized and preplamed family weekend of togetherness? Sure, have at, drag them along, but make sure they have had some input into planning what you are doing AS A GROUP before hand.
Else-wise, it is their time, even if it is spent in physical co-location with you.
posted by strixus at 10:45 AM on October 18, 2009 [10 favorites]
Can you think of some really fun activity that your stepson would enjoy, that the family could do together? If you lived near me, I'd suggest a jaunt out to the Outer Banks for hang-gliding lessons (don't worry, they're gentle if not entirely risk-free), or to the mountains for caving. It sounds like you could all use a gentle nudge out of the comfort zone.
You might even invite one of your son's friends along; that might make it more appealing to him. It's perfectly appropriate for him to prefer socializing (such as it is) with WoW teammates / his one friend, and it might make things more fun for everyone.
One other thought: volunteering together? Maybe with Habitat for Humanity?
posted by amtho at 10:49 AM on October 18, 2009
You might even invite one of your son's friends along; that might make it more appealing to him. It's perfectly appropriate for him to prefer socializing (such as it is) with WoW teammates / his one friend, and it might make things more fun for everyone.
One other thought: volunteering together? Maybe with Habitat for Humanity?
posted by amtho at 10:49 AM on October 18, 2009
I didn't have the internet as a young person, but I may as well have had a book glued into my hand. Left to my own devices I would have been up a tree in our pasture reading, or making weird little toys out of sticks and paint in my room.
My parents had something called family time, which meant they dragged us all out of the house for walks and picnics and things. I groused and took a book along with me all the same, but I appreciate it now.
You sound like a good dad to me. Sometimes what kids want to do is not what they need to do.
posted by winna at 10:52 AM on October 18, 2009 [10 favorites]
My parents had something called family time, which meant they dragged us all out of the house for walks and picnics and things. I groused and took a book along with me all the same, but I appreciate it now.
You sound like a good dad to me. Sometimes what kids want to do is not what they need to do.
posted by winna at 10:52 AM on October 18, 2009 [10 favorites]
I agree with strixus, but with some questions. During the week at night, do you spend time together as a family? Do you eat dinner together and talk to each other? If so, then yes, let everyone do what they'd like to do. That's what weekends are for, especially when you're a kid. In high school I had so much homework that my weekends were my only free time, and if I wanted to spend it playing video games, then damnit, that's what I was going to do. Yeah, we did things as a family and I hated having to go, and yeah, I did usually end up enjoying myself, but I would have had a better time being able to be in control of what I did. For me, getting lost in the story of books and video games was just more interesting than going to a museum, and so when we eventually went to a museum I thought it was neat, not just taking away from my Zelda time.
posted by InsanePenguin at 10:53 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by InsanePenguin at 10:53 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Get a handheld GPS (or perhaps your cell phone has built in GPS) and go GEOCACHING. Your 14 year old might dig toying around with the GPS and it gets everyone outside.
My children (8 -girl, 6-boy, and 3-boy) LOVE going. I was most concerned that our 6 year old boy wouldn't like it - he's not so much into out door activities and could happily spend hours on the computer. But, he's the one now BEGGING to go geocaching at every chance.
And these geocaching adventures don't have to be all day crazy events - but merely jumping in the car and going to a close one. It at least gets you all out - focused on a common goal that you can all talk about later. Sometimes our adventures get us hungry and thirsty and we all wind up going out for a treat.
posted by Sassyfras at 10:54 AM on October 18, 2009 [18 favorites]
My children (8 -girl, 6-boy, and 3-boy) LOVE going. I was most concerned that our 6 year old boy wouldn't like it - he's not so much into out door activities and could happily spend hours on the computer. But, he's the one now BEGGING to go geocaching at every chance.
And these geocaching adventures don't have to be all day crazy events - but merely jumping in the car and going to a close one. It at least gets you all out - focused on a common goal that you can all talk about later. Sometimes our adventures get us hungry and thirsty and we all wind up going out for a treat.
posted by Sassyfras at 10:54 AM on October 18, 2009 [18 favorites]
I am watching this thread with interest, and would find it especially useful to hear from people who have been in this situation and actually changed it. I have a nine-year-old with Asperger's, who is playing noisily with his siblings right now, but would just as easily retreat into his gameboy. 12-year-old is stalking around the house, trying to find a working computer to read about Halo:ODST and furiously saving every cent he earns for an Xbox 360. We have been trying to limit computer time during the school week, and have disconnected the digital converter from our TV set. Both of these have helped a little. We often fight when we all get together, or the kids do, or the activities my wife selects are considered boring by the kids. I want to teach them to hike.
posted by mecran01 at 10:55 AM on October 18, 2009
posted by mecran01 at 10:55 AM on October 18, 2009
Also, wanted to point out that it's difficult to not be glued to a screen now, not necessarily because people are lazier, simply because "screens" are much, much more prevalent now than they used to be. Hell, when I'm reading I'm looking at a screen. (Kindle)
posted by InsanePenguin at 10:55 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by InsanePenguin at 10:55 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
This is a really interesting question for me, as, being 21, I pretty vividly remember the 14-year-old wanting-to-do-my-own-thing stage. And I really hated when my parents would drag me out to do something together or as a family; unlike the above posters, I don't appreciate it in hindsight.
I think maybe there are a few things that might be worth looking into here:
posted by Jacen Solo at 11:08 AM on October 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
I think maybe there are a few things that might be worth looking into here:
- Is there something you and your stepson/family could do together that he would enjoy? For example, going out to eat can always be a treat, and will involve some interaction (and can be extended, with e.g. dessert, a trip to the bookstore or library, etc.).
- Maybe try honestly talking with your stepson about this. I feel like if you approached him, not as a parent trying to make him fit into family activities, but as a peer who has the kinds of worries that you express here, he might actually take a moment and listen and empathize. (Empathizing is hard at that age though, so who knows.) Just letting him know that you feel like you miss him, and wish there were more things you can do together, and that you completely understand wanting to do your own thing in front of the screen, but, maybe there's something we could do together every once in a while that would be fun? I think if you kind of let the fact that you're at a loss shine through, this would become a dialog with honest sharing of ideas and feelings, as opposed to a lecture. And that way it might generate some real thoughts in the direction of what can be done together---heck, maybe he'd really enjoy guiding you through how to play WoW.
- Whatever you do, don't get it in lots of little arguments over stupid things---this is the easiest way to drive a "you don't understand me" or "all you do is nag me" wedge in between the two of you. Examples include repeated arguments over chores, or anything where you make him feel judged negatively for something he likes (e.g. maybe you make snide comments about WoW, not thinking about the effect). This is obviously a hard balance to strike, given that the chores do have to be done, after all.
posted by Jacen Solo at 11:08 AM on October 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
WOW, Sassyfras! Is your family accepting applications for new members? Because I suddenly want to re-live my childhood;))
Seriously. Geocaching sounds like just the thing, musofire.
In fact... I think my husband and I will try that this week... Thanks!!
posted by jbenben at 11:08 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Seriously. Geocaching sounds like just the thing, musofire.
In fact... I think my husband and I will try that this week... Thanks!!
posted by jbenben at 11:08 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sometimes what kids want to do is not what they need to do.
I cannot stress this enough, and if I could double-gold star it, I would. I do not believe that it is healthy for a teenager to spend all his time in front of a screen, especially an Aspie kid.
Here's the thing: an individual's frontal cortex - the part of the brain that deals with reason and decision-making - isn't fully developed until the person is in his/her 20s. So, basically, your 14-year-old is not capable of rational decisions. It's just a biological fact.
My nearly 13-year-old son would very, VERY happily spend all his time playing on-line games. And when he's an adult and can manage his own time, he can do whatever the hell he wants. But, and it is as simple as this: while he's in my house, he follows my rules. My rules include outside time. My rules include family time - and that might include watching MythBusters or The Simpsons (etc.) together, but it might include a board game or a hike or cleaning the garage.
I think it is our job as parents to expose our kids to things they wouldn't necessarily expose themselves to. Some of my son's favorite memories involve something he resisted doing but I forced him to do. Like going to the pumpkin farm yesterday. He didn't know there was going to be a corn maze and oh my god, did he have a GREAT time.
Drag him out of his comfort zone. He'll go kicking and screaming, but hopefully he'll look back on it fondly. If he doesn't? You'll have a clear conscience.
posted by cooker girl at 11:12 AM on October 18, 2009 [12 favorites]
I cannot stress this enough, and if I could double-gold star it, I would. I do not believe that it is healthy for a teenager to spend all his time in front of a screen, especially an Aspie kid.
Here's the thing: an individual's frontal cortex - the part of the brain that deals with reason and decision-making - isn't fully developed until the person is in his/her 20s. So, basically, your 14-year-old is not capable of rational decisions. It's just a biological fact.
My nearly 13-year-old son would very, VERY happily spend all his time playing on-line games. And when he's an adult and can manage his own time, he can do whatever the hell he wants. But, and it is as simple as this: while he's in my house, he follows my rules. My rules include outside time. My rules include family time - and that might include watching MythBusters or The Simpsons (etc.) together, but it might include a board game or a hike or cleaning the garage.
I think it is our job as parents to expose our kids to things they wouldn't necessarily expose themselves to. Some of my son's favorite memories involve something he resisted doing but I forced him to do. Like going to the pumpkin farm yesterday. He didn't know there was going to be a corn maze and oh my god, did he have a GREAT time.
Drag him out of his comfort zone. He'll go kicking and screaming, but hopefully he'll look back on it fondly. If he doesn't? You'll have a clear conscience.
posted by cooker girl at 11:12 AM on October 18, 2009 [12 favorites]
Regarding your stepson: When I was fourteen, my dad had to yell and drag and all sorts of things in order to pry me away from the computer screen and to on a hike. I always had a great time, which, in the car ride or walk back, I would be forced to grudgingly admit. The next time he'd want to go on a hike, I still wanted to play computer games until he dragged me outside, and again we'd have a good time.
The point is, 14-year-olds don't always know what's best for them (though sometimes they do), and may require a bit of effort to get moving. Or, they actually do want to go out, but feel the pressure to act 'cool' and not want to do stuff with their parents, even when no one else is watching.
If you feel a bit uncomfortable about getting him to do stuff because you're his stepfather and not his real father, enlist the help of your wife. A unified front might work better anyway.
posted by Jon_Evil at 11:16 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
The point is, 14-year-olds don't always know what's best for them (though sometimes they do), and may require a bit of effort to get moving. Or, they actually do want to go out, but feel the pressure to act 'cool' and not want to do stuff with their parents, even when no one else is watching.
If you feel a bit uncomfortable about getting him to do stuff because you're his stepfather and not his real father, enlist the help of your wife. A unified front might work better anyway.
posted by Jon_Evil at 11:16 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I remember being a teen-ager and I remember having much younger siblings, and...let some of this go. You sound like a good Dad but, at 14, hanging around with parents and a five-year-old can suck pretty hard.
Jacen Solo's advice is great.
I would try taking your daughter out for lunch on a regular basis -- nothing fancy; just make it into a habit -- and I would try taking the 14yo down to the pub or coffee shop, somewhere the 5yo really wouldn't care so much for. Nothing says "lame" like "Here is something your kid sister also enjoys" and I can't imagine I would've bit at the yeah, family geocaching! idea at 14.
posted by kmennie at 11:23 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Jacen Solo's advice is great.
I would try taking your daughter out for lunch on a regular basis -- nothing fancy; just make it into a habit -- and I would try taking the 14yo down to the pub or coffee shop, somewhere the 5yo really wouldn't care so much for. Nothing says "lame" like "Here is something your kid sister also enjoys" and I can't imagine I would've bit at the yeah, family geocaching! idea at 14.
posted by kmennie at 11:23 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm going to contradict cooker girl here. I think you should give your kids the oppertunity to go out and do interesting things that don't involve electronics. Tell them you're going whale watching, tell them you're going to a custom party, tell them you're going hiking and they are most definiately invited. But never, EVER use your authority as a parent to force them into something.
there is no faster way to get a child dead set against something with all of their heart then to force them to do something. unless it's grandmothers birthday, a wedding, or something else important that isn't about them, do not lord your power over them.
Not only will that backfire in the short term, but i know many people who barely talk to their parents because there was no relationship other then an authority figure demanding things of them.
posted by RawrGulMuffins at 11:25 AM on October 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
there is no faster way to get a child dead set against something with all of their heart then to force them to do something. unless it's grandmothers birthday, a wedding, or something else important that isn't about them, do not lord your power over them.
Not only will that backfire in the short term, but i know many people who barely talk to their parents because there was no relationship other then an authority figure demanding things of them.
posted by RawrGulMuffins at 11:25 AM on October 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
Little edit to the above post. I realize after reading what I wrote that I need to clarify what force means to me. Pushing an idea or activity probably isn't going to backfire on you. Talking about it a lot, telling them how fun you expect things to be, possibly rewarding your kids somehow might all work; depends on who your children are.
If they're dead set, there is no room for argument against something and you make them do it anyway then you're forcing them.
posted by RawrGulMuffins at 11:34 AM on October 18, 2009
If they're dead set, there is no room for argument against something and you make them do it anyway then you're forcing them.
posted by RawrGulMuffins at 11:34 AM on October 18, 2009
My brother is nine years older than I am and this is kind of what happened in our family in part because there wasn't a lot that both of us good to do together. One thing you can all do together is have meals. Start a ritual of having Sunday dinner or Sunday brunch together. You can do this on weeknights too. Invite your son and daughter to help prepare the meal. Then make sure you sit down together and enjoy the meal sans tv sans internets.
posted by jewzilla at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2009
posted by jewzilla at 11:38 AM on October 18, 2009
I was quite a bit like your stepson when I was fourteen--I spent the entirety of my weekends (if I could) doing chatroom-based roleplaying on AOL. However, what my mom didn't understand (and still doesn't, I think) was at the time, this was my only substantial means of social interaction, which is, of course, the most important thing in the world at that age. I didn't have many close friends at school and didn't have money to, say, go to the mall with those that I did have. And to my knowledge, despite this, I don't have Asberger's.
But I was just a bit weird and a bit antisocial. I wasn't allowed, partially for monetary reasons, to meet my internet friends, and so it remained pretty much this way until freshmen year of highschool, who I met some people who I got along better with--other dorks and goth kids, really--and I realized that my Friday night internet club meetings were eating up times when I could be socializing. If he's into Buffy and WoW, I'm going to hazard a guess that he's not that different from how I was those days. The things that I would have been interested in are things like anime, sci-fi, or horror conventions, Renaissance Festivals, historical reenactments, local punk shows, concerts generally, shopping in "cool" places (there was a mall with a hot topic and a wiccan store near me, but places like Greenwich Village were exciting too)--really, the type of stuff that adults who are into Buffy and WoW often like to do. Some of these things are good because they might offer him a chance to meet people with similar interests, too. I think I would have been in heaven if I'd been able to go to anime conventions and get into costuming and that sort of stuff at 14.
He probably won't want to go with his sister, though. What 14-year-old would? But maybe he'll do stuff with you. You were into pen-and-paper gaming? Have you tried to get him into that? Sounds like a fun stepdad/kid activity. The key here is to think of him as a grown-up, mostly, and to respect his interests.
I have no idea why you're not playing with your daughter more. Sounds like there's no reason not to.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:42 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
But I was just a bit weird and a bit antisocial. I wasn't allowed, partially for monetary reasons, to meet my internet friends, and so it remained pretty much this way until freshmen year of highschool, who I met some people who I got along better with--other dorks and goth kids, really--and I realized that my Friday night internet club meetings were eating up times when I could be socializing. If he's into Buffy and WoW, I'm going to hazard a guess that he's not that different from how I was those days. The things that I would have been interested in are things like anime, sci-fi, or horror conventions, Renaissance Festivals, historical reenactments, local punk shows, concerts generally, shopping in "cool" places (there was a mall with a hot topic and a wiccan store near me, but places like Greenwich Village were exciting too)--really, the type of stuff that adults who are into Buffy and WoW often like to do. Some of these things are good because they might offer him a chance to meet people with similar interests, too. I think I would have been in heaven if I'd been able to go to anime conventions and get into costuming and that sort of stuff at 14.
He probably won't want to go with his sister, though. What 14-year-old would? But maybe he'll do stuff with you. You were into pen-and-paper gaming? Have you tried to get him into that? Sounds like a fun stepdad/kid activity. The key here is to think of him as a grown-up, mostly, and to respect his interests.
I have no idea why you're not playing with your daughter more. Sounds like there's no reason not to.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:42 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Oh and just to reiterate that doing stuff he wants to do will probably work: when I was about his age, my mom and I had a standing Sunday ritual where we made dinner and watched MST3k together. I loved it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:43 AM on October 18, 2009
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 11:43 AM on October 18, 2009
Sometimes work is play. Take a kid and go mow the lawn or rearrange the garage, build a doghouse, whatever. Even go grocery shopping. Household things need doing anyway, and it provides a little bonding time (also grumbling time, until they get used to the idea that they are contributing members). Even if it would be easier to assign as a solo chore or do yourself, do it with somebody.
posted by ctmf at 11:46 AM on October 18, 2009
posted by ctmf at 11:46 AM on October 18, 2009
You're not being a bad dad. I would just strive to have ONE family outing per week, no matter what. Outdoors or Indoors, just one thing. I have a 15yo that I drag kicking and screaming away from his video games, computer, television, and books. I can't remember a time he didn't actually enjoy the outing, though.
I do (usually) give him at least a few hours notice that his plans of gaming all day will be derailed. For quick errands, I also make him come along because I like his company. He used to grumble about that, but now he just babbles incessantly all the way to the store/vet/restaurant/postoffice/etc. I love the babble, it's how I catchup on the more mundane details of his day-to-day life.
In the end, I think it's absolutely crucial to break up these long stretches of obsessions (gaming/internet/etc).
posted by ick at 11:47 AM on October 18, 2009
I do (usually) give him at least a few hours notice that his plans of gaming all day will be derailed. For quick errands, I also make him come along because I like his company. He used to grumble about that, but now he just babbles incessantly all the way to the store/vet/restaurant/postoffice/etc. I love the babble, it's how I catchup on the more mundane details of his day-to-day life.
In the end, I think it's absolutely crucial to break up these long stretches of obsessions (gaming/internet/etc).
posted by ick at 11:47 AM on October 18, 2009
Would it work to have the 14-year-old plan an outing for all of you? Maybe you could each take turns choosing what to do, and he won't feel quite so "dragged" out on the weekends.
One thing that my dad did really well while I was growing up was asking for my help with certain things, like picking out Mom's birthday present or getting a Christmas tree or just going to the hardware store. I don't know how helpful I actually was, but he kind of framed it as "Your input is valuable and I enjoy your company, even if you're being sullen right now," and it made a world of difference. I didn't feel forced to go out.
And if your stepson seems quiet and irritated while you're out, I wouldn't necessarily assume that he's having a bad time. The young teenagers I know are still getting the hang of making polite conversation and understanding what makes for pleasant company.
All that said, I do think kids need downtime. If your daughter is getting 4 hours of therapy on most weekend days (assuming that this is on top of school), she's probably exhausted. I work with kids who have autism and when I work weekends, I have to come home and veg for a few hours to avoid falling over from tiredness.
You sound like a great dad. You'll find the right balance.
posted by corey flood at 11:47 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
One thing that my dad did really well while I was growing up was asking for my help with certain things, like picking out Mom's birthday present or getting a Christmas tree or just going to the hardware store. I don't know how helpful I actually was, but he kind of framed it as "Your input is valuable and I enjoy your company, even if you're being sullen right now," and it made a world of difference. I didn't feel forced to go out.
And if your stepson seems quiet and irritated while you're out, I wouldn't necessarily assume that he's having a bad time. The young teenagers I know are still getting the hang of making polite conversation and understanding what makes for pleasant company.
All that said, I do think kids need downtime. If your daughter is getting 4 hours of therapy on most weekend days (assuming that this is on top of school), she's probably exhausted. I work with kids who have autism and when I work weekends, I have to come home and veg for a few hours to avoid falling over from tiredness.
You sound like a great dad. You'll find the right balance.
posted by corey flood at 11:47 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Well - this is the 'norm' these days...
As I jokingly tell others; I'm not raising kids - I'm growing fungus...
Of course - we have a climate excuse (cold+snow+etc.), but still there is not a day that goes by that this doesn't bother me...
... then... I think back to my childhood and being dragged on endless day-long "family-time" hikes, waiting on the hill/mountain/in-car while my father went hang-gliding, horrible damp dank tent camping trips in BC... ... And I always brought a book, so times have changed and now it is a book/DS/PSP/netbook...
posted by jkaczor at 11:50 AM on October 18, 2009
As I jokingly tell others; I'm not raising kids - I'm growing fungus...
Of course - we have a climate excuse (cold+snow+etc.), but still there is not a day that goes by that this doesn't bother me...
... then... I think back to my childhood and being dragged on endless day-long "family-time" hikes, waiting on the hill/mountain/in-car while my father went hang-gliding, horrible damp dank tent camping trips in BC... ... And I always brought a book, so times have changed and now it is a book/DS/PSP/netbook...
posted by jkaczor at 11:50 AM on October 18, 2009
I agree with InsanePenguin, if you have quality time during the week then you don't need as much quality time during the weekend. I think you need to have family outings at least every month or two. A few short outings every two months might be a good start. It's especially important for your son and daughter to have these experiences, because they are children, and because of the autism and Aspberger's/awkwardness they have. They need to gain experience handling different social situations (walking the dog, going to a museum, going to a farmer's market, picking apples, etc.). Everybody will learn more about each other, too.
On the other hand, everyone should have their "me" time. Maybe you could get everyone together and say you wish you could spend time out of the house with them, and ask them if you could go on two short outings (2 hours or less... start small) in the next two months. Pick days and activities right then and write them on the family calendar. You will get outings in 2 out of the next 8 weekends, and your wife and son will know that they can surf the Web or play WOW completely uninterrupted 6 out of the next 8 weekends, and with minor interruption on 2 weekends. Then repeat every two months.
You may never be able to get them out for big outings on a regular basis (like fishing all day every Saturday), but I think a few big outings per year might be adequate.
I have sympathy for you. Like a lot of people who answered, I and my family tend to glue ourselves to books, TVs, and computers. We kind of need it. But we did need to balance that with getting out.
On preview... lots of good comments! I agree that you shouldn't "command" everyone to go out. Meanwhile do be open about being at a loss and wanting to be a good Dad. I think the issues would be just the same if everyone involved were neurotypical.
posted by halonine at 11:51 AM on October 18, 2009
On the other hand, everyone should have their "me" time. Maybe you could get everyone together and say you wish you could spend time out of the house with them, and ask them if you could go on two short outings (2 hours or less... start small) in the next two months. Pick days and activities right then and write them on the family calendar. You will get outings in 2 out of the next 8 weekends, and your wife and son will know that they can surf the Web or play WOW completely uninterrupted 6 out of the next 8 weekends, and with minor interruption on 2 weekends. Then repeat every two months.
You may never be able to get them out for big outings on a regular basis (like fishing all day every Saturday), but I think a few big outings per year might be adequate.
I have sympathy for you. Like a lot of people who answered, I and my family tend to glue ourselves to books, TVs, and computers. We kind of need it. But we did need to balance that with getting out.
On preview... lots of good comments! I agree that you shouldn't "command" everyone to go out. Meanwhile do be open about being at a loss and wanting to be a good Dad. I think the issues would be just the same if everyone involved were neurotypical.
posted by halonine at 11:51 AM on October 18, 2009
It's also worth noting that at age 14, ALL kids are experimenting with independence and trying to pull back from spending every moment with mom and dad. It is absolutely 100% normal, and to some degree, is worth encouraging, because he is trying to develop his own sense of self-sufficiency and independence (and self-esteem related to these things), and he can do that in healthy ways with some guiding at this age. This is not to say that I think you shouldn't do family stuff, but I think you shouldn't kill yourself with concern over it, either.
posted by so_gracefully at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by so_gracefully at 11:53 AM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
I would set aside two hours on each weekend - or even every other weekend - for enforced family time. Get together with your wife, make it not optional, and get the kids to contribute some ideas (this is of course a ploy to get your son to contribute some ideas.) Start him off with a list of suggestions like geocaching (I hate hiking but geocaching is fun), paint ball, some local gaming conventions, pizza night, movies (there has to be a film he wants to see every now and then)... really, maybe start by asking him to make a list of 5 things he likes to do that do not involve playing WOW or watching Buffy.
I guess I'm saying you really need both a list and a plan. But I'd do it because you have one, maybe two years before you really can't make him do stuff anymore and it seems like all of you could use some family bonding you'll remember even if everyone complains all the way through it.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:55 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I guess I'm saying you really need both a list and a plan. But I'd do it because you have one, maybe two years before you really can't make him do stuff anymore and it seems like all of you could use some family bonding you'll remember even if everyone complains all the way through it.
posted by DarlingBri at 11:55 AM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I agree with you - your family needs more "family time."
With your stepson, you're going to have lay down the law about television and gaming; you'll need the support of your wife. Limit the number of hours he can do each, and provide rewards for doing other activities, such as walking the dog.
If you want to do a family activity, ask your 14-year-old what he wants to do as a family.
Create a chart, and outline the desires, needs and wants of each member of the family in regards to a family activity. Get him to suggest some options. Once again, provide a reward.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:11 PM on October 18, 2009
With your stepson, you're going to have lay down the law about television and gaming; you'll need the support of your wife. Limit the number of hours he can do each, and provide rewards for doing other activities, such as walking the dog.
If you want to do a family activity, ask your 14-year-old what he wants to do as a family.
Create a chart, and outline the desires, needs and wants of each member of the family in regards to a family activity. Get him to suggest some options. Once again, provide a reward.
posted by KokuRyu at 12:11 PM on October 18, 2009
seconding paintball for the stepson; maybe teach the daughter a musical instrument? (and the son, if he's interested in learning the guitar). Also, everyone likes to eat, so maybe cooking together?
posted by Ollie at 12:16 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by Ollie at 12:16 PM on October 18, 2009
Is there anything about your work that your kids could participate in? Brainstorming ideas, critiquing TV shows? That might be interesting to them for a short time. Teach them some simple accompaniment guitar or drum patterns, and jam with your guitar?
posted by ctmf at 12:18 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by ctmf at 12:18 PM on October 18, 2009
I think a lot of posters suggesting you pull all the kids out once a week for an "outing" or "family time" are coming at it from the perspective of Good Parent, and not from the perspective of a 14 year old kid being dragged out to hang out with his much, much much much younger step sister. From the 14 year old's perspective, it pretty much sucks doing watered down sports or hiking a 5 year old can keep up with.
I think once a month or so is a more realistic goal for getting everyone up and at em, and things like biking, eating out, arcades, going to parks, etc., that allow the older kid to stray and have his own fun, while still being safe for the little one, are the best bet.
posted by shownomercy at 12:22 PM on October 18, 2009
I think once a month or so is a more realistic goal for getting everyone up and at em, and things like biking, eating out, arcades, going to parks, etc., that allow the older kid to stray and have his own fun, while still being safe for the little one, are the best bet.
posted by shownomercy at 12:22 PM on October 18, 2009
laser tag!
posted by smartypantz at 12:22 PM on October 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by smartypantz at 12:22 PM on October 18, 2009 [3 favorites]
Definitely try to include your son's friends if possible. Do you have a laser tag place near you? Also be sure to spend time one on one with each of the children (you and your wife can trade off) so that the children get family time as well as solo parent time. One thing my family did and really enjoyed was family yoga (everyone in the same class together). Family karate is another good option. Yes, they need their own time but they also need family face-time.
posted by saucysault at 12:30 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by saucysault at 12:30 PM on October 18, 2009
Apologies to my mother if she ever read this, but I pretty much hated being dragged off to do things with the family in my teen years.
These activities are why, as I increasingly obtained more freedom (a part time job and thus money), I spent less and less time with them and at home in general. If I wasn't there or if I "had to work" -- true or not, I did spend every Saturday for a year working all day, but I used it as an excuse more than once too -- no one could drag me out for yet more boring family bonding.
I imagine if I had been left to my own devices at home I would have spent more time there and my family would have consequently seen me more. As it was, I couldn't count on not being harassed into family cleaning weekend or family shopping time or whatever else my mom thought was more interesting than the activities of my private teen world and I FLED. Seriously, my mom has barely seen me since I was 15, and then I made a point of moving out of state.
I love my parents, I really do, but I did not want to hang out with them when I was a teen. If you don't already have that kind of togetherness in your family, I suspect it's going to be extremely difficult to cultivate at this point. By all means try if you really feel guilty, but I would definitely suggest backing off if it seems to be driving your stepson in the opposite direction as it would have done with me.
By the way -- WoW can be extremely social or it can be a solo endeavor. Don't assume your stepson has just 1 friend. WoW is (and other online communities/forums/games are) where a lot of people with social difficulties can end up making friends in a way they can't seem to accomplish easily offline.
posted by asciident at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
These activities are why, as I increasingly obtained more freedom (a part time job and thus money), I spent less and less time with them and at home in general. If I wasn't there or if I "had to work" -- true or not, I did spend every Saturday for a year working all day, but I used it as an excuse more than once too -- no one could drag me out for yet more boring family bonding.
I imagine if I had been left to my own devices at home I would have spent more time there and my family would have consequently seen me more. As it was, I couldn't count on not being harassed into family cleaning weekend or family shopping time or whatever else my mom thought was more interesting than the activities of my private teen world and I FLED. Seriously, my mom has barely seen me since I was 15, and then I made a point of moving out of state.
I love my parents, I really do, but I did not want to hang out with them when I was a teen. If you don't already have that kind of togetherness in your family, I suspect it's going to be extremely difficult to cultivate at this point. By all means try if you really feel guilty, but I would definitely suggest backing off if it seems to be driving your stepson in the opposite direction as it would have done with me.
By the way -- WoW can be extremely social or it can be a solo endeavor. Don't assume your stepson has just 1 friend. WoW is (and other online communities/forums/games are) where a lot of people with social difficulties can end up making friends in a way they can't seem to accomplish easily offline.
posted by asciident at 12:31 PM on October 18, 2009 [4 favorites]
When I was 13 I spent an enforced six months of foreign travel with my parents and younger brother. It was horrible, isolating, and I couldn't think of any three people I would more like to avoid than them. What do we have the most fun remembering now? Those six months. As Steve Martin wrote, "One can have affection for the war years."
More practically...
- I second the idea of letting each person take a turn at planning--or at least choosing--a family outing. It doesn't need to be a big deal. It can be going for ice cream or a new film.
- I agree that making meals together is a good place to start. You could rotate what part of the meal each person is responsible for.
- I disagree that a hike is offensive to the 14yo because it's at the 5yo's pace. How about if the 14yo is doing navigating or hiking on ahead on his own?
- Travel is great because 1) you probably can't leave the kids at home so they have to come, 2) there's an inherent sense of adventure for everyone, if only "God, please let me meet someone who I can complain to about my parents," and 3) because you have distinct shared memories afterward.
- Big, seasonal chores can be rewarding to do as a family. They get done faster and kids feel like they're critical to the functioning home. Give them the leeway to choose the job they want and how to do it. Decorating for Halloween could be a blast.
And I think it should be mandatory. Not in a power-hungry You Will Do What I Say way, but in a "we're in it together and it won't be long before we're going our own ways, so humor your Dad" way.
posted by cocoagirl at 12:33 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
More practically...
- I second the idea of letting each person take a turn at planning--or at least choosing--a family outing. It doesn't need to be a big deal. It can be going for ice cream or a new film.
- I agree that making meals together is a good place to start. You could rotate what part of the meal each person is responsible for.
- I disagree that a hike is offensive to the 14yo because it's at the 5yo's pace. How about if the 14yo is doing navigating or hiking on ahead on his own?
- Travel is great because 1) you probably can't leave the kids at home so they have to come, 2) there's an inherent sense of adventure for everyone, if only "God, please let me meet someone who I can complain to about my parents," and 3) because you have distinct shared memories afterward.
- Big, seasonal chores can be rewarding to do as a family. They get done faster and kids feel like they're critical to the functioning home. Give them the leeway to choose the job they want and how to do it. Decorating for Halloween could be a blast.
And I think it should be mandatory. Not in a power-hungry You Will Do What I Say way, but in a "we're in it together and it won't be long before we're going our own ways, so humor your Dad" way.
posted by cocoagirl at 12:33 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
No one else seems to have suggested this, but have you tried asking your stepson to help you learn WoW? If he's playing by himself, having someone else to play with could be fun. Even if he's involved in a guild, you could see if he'd mind creating a new character that you could duo with.
I'm a 48 y/o grandmother of a 6 y/o and stepmom to a 9 y/o -- I play WoW and think it will be a blast to play with my kids when they're a little older.
In addition to spending time with you, this would allow him to be the expert rather than you -- which he'd probably like.
posted by elmay at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
I'm a 48 y/o grandmother of a 6 y/o and stepmom to a 9 y/o -- I play WoW and think it will be a blast to play with my kids when they're a little older.
In addition to spending time with you, this would allow him to be the expert rather than you -- which he'd probably like.
posted by elmay at 12:37 PM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
Seems you might be at risk of a false dichotomy here — big happy family activities or everyone atomized and doing their own thing. Don't forget the possibility of doing things with one kid — apart from anything else this should increase the range of possibilities, since the activity in question won't have to suit everyone.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 12:40 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 12:40 PM on October 18, 2009
I can only speak for remembering what it was like to be 14 and addicted to gaming. At that time and age, it will be extremely difficult for "family time".
Don't force the family time in an "event" way. Instead, take him to a computer/electronics/game store. You're spending some time together and he'd probably enjoy that.
Teach him to drive. I couldn't wait to do that regardless of any game I was playing.
posted by telsa at 12:40 PM on October 18, 2009
Don't force the family time in an "event" way. Instead, take him to a computer/electronics/game store. You're spending some time together and he'd probably enjoy that.
Teach him to drive. I couldn't wait to do that regardless of any game I was playing.
posted by telsa at 12:40 PM on October 18, 2009
At my house, we have a big, late breakfast at least once a weekend. Sometimes (though not always), everyone contributes -- making eggs, setting the table, going on a run for donuts. Sometimes (though not always), breakfast sets the stage for some kind of activity later in the day.
As a followup to elmay's idea, there are certain perks available to WoW players who recruit other players.
posted by gnomeloaf at 12:59 PM on October 18, 2009
As a followup to elmay's idea, there are certain perks available to WoW players who recruit other players.
posted by gnomeloaf at 12:59 PM on October 18, 2009
I should clarify as well: I certainly didn't mean to imply that I handcuff my kids and force them to do stuff. I don't tell them "My house, my rules!!!" It's what I think in my own head, but I really don't browbeat them with it.
We plan stuff together, we talk about what we want to do. Some days it's harder than others, and some days take more cajoling than others. And sometimes, it's not worth the perceived battle ahead and I just don't even try.
We're also coming from the position of having done family stuff together since day one. I grew up in a very dysfunctional household. My father couldn't be bothered with doing stuff with us and I still resent him for it. At least you're trying. He never did.
Also, seconding the "doing things with one kid" approach. Maybe your son balks at "family" time but wouldn't so much mind going somewhere with you. And let him choose sometimes. My son loves hobby shops. I don't. But sometimes I'll take him because he loves it.
posted by cooker girl at 1:00 PM on October 18, 2009
We plan stuff together, we talk about what we want to do. Some days it's harder than others, and some days take more cajoling than others. And sometimes, it's not worth the perceived battle ahead and I just don't even try.
We're also coming from the position of having done family stuff together since day one. I grew up in a very dysfunctional household. My father couldn't be bothered with doing stuff with us and I still resent him for it. At least you're trying. He never did.
Also, seconding the "doing things with one kid" approach. Maybe your son balks at "family" time but wouldn't so much mind going somewhere with you. And let him choose sometimes. My son loves hobby shops. I don't. But sometimes I'll take him because he loves it.
posted by cooker girl at 1:00 PM on October 18, 2009
How about leaving their leisure time to them for the most part, but having one meal together each day? Your son can tell you how his WoW day went, your daughter can talk about what she watched, etc... and maybe have one family outing a month, so they don't feel their weekend are being hijacked but you do get out into the air together on a regular basis.
posted by Billegible at 1:15 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by Billegible at 1:15 PM on October 18, 2009
At your son's age I could have happily spent the entire weekend futzing around on the computer. Of course, often enough thanks to my parents, that wasn't how things went. By and large, this wasn't totally horrible, but one thing I remember being particularly annoying was waking up Saturday morning thinking I had the whole weekend to myself, and then BAM! SURPRISE FAMILY TIME WEEKEND.
So, I recommend that whatever you do, you give some advance notice.
Also, I will nth the suggestion of giving WoW a shot.
posted by Zach! at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
So, I recommend that whatever you do, you give some advance notice.
Also, I will nth the suggestion of giving WoW a shot.
posted by Zach! at 1:53 PM on October 18, 2009 [2 favorites]
What about trying to get together with other families during the weekend, or every other weekend? Even if it's not families with kids in the same age range, it's a good activity to have people over to cook, or go for a walk, or whatever. My parents also hated when me and my brother would just go off and watch movies or play Sega, so they balanced, I think, with always always always asking us along to gatherings, and when people came over for dinner, we were sort of expected to at least make a quick appearance. I remember this being really good for me; sometimes I came, sometimes I didn't, but they always asked, and it felt good. I know I also "hated" doing things with my fam at times, and yes sometimes they would make me, sometimes not. By the time I was in high school less and less. But don't feel bad if that doesn't happen very often, I know a lot of people that were raised by the boob tube, and they are totally fine.
posted by Rocket26 at 2:17 PM on October 18, 2009
posted by Rocket26 at 2:17 PM on October 18, 2009
++ Advance notice for family outing.
++ the "hey guys, we're a family, lets go do *fun thing*, come on, it will be fun."
++ getting your wife on board first- unified front is important. (If she baulks at doing something the kids will be harder to get along)
I taught computers to elementary kids last year, and I never had issues with the ADHD and Asperger's kids behaviorally, and someone told me it's because the computer (and TV to an extent) provide lots and lots of stimulus to their brains, and instead of being distracted they lock on to the screen and get absorbed. This might be the huge pull of the computer/tv on your kids.
I also agree that weekends are both for relax AND for family stuff. You might all get burned out if you run around doing stuff every weekend. Let them have some time off, let yourself have the odd lazy weekend too. But do have family outings occasionally, like mentioned up thread. Sledding/toboggan, in the winter, might be fun, and is age agnostic.
posted by titanium_geek at 2:54 PM on October 18, 2009
++ the "hey guys, we're a family, lets go do *fun thing*, come on, it will be fun."
++ getting your wife on board first- unified front is important. (If she baulks at doing something the kids will be harder to get along)
I taught computers to elementary kids last year, and I never had issues with the ADHD and Asperger's kids behaviorally, and someone told me it's because the computer (and TV to an extent) provide lots and lots of stimulus to their brains, and instead of being distracted they lock on to the screen and get absorbed. This might be the huge pull of the computer/tv on your kids.
I also agree that weekends are both for relax AND for family stuff. You might all get burned out if you run around doing stuff every weekend. Let them have some time off, let yourself have the odd lazy weekend too. But do have family outings occasionally, like mentioned up thread. Sledding/toboggan, in the winter, might be fun, and is age agnostic.
posted by titanium_geek at 2:54 PM on October 18, 2009
At the very least, make sure you prepare and eat your meals as a family, every night if you can, and certainly on weekends. Your son is a child, so you need to not always give in to him on the hiding in his room with the games. You can also try making sure that all of these screens are in the public parts of the house-- I actually firmly believe that children, even teenagers, should not have either computers or tvs in their rooms, but that's a personal parenting choice and I know perfectly wonderful parents who disagree.
One piece of practical guidance I can offer is to read the memoirs of Temple Grandin, who is autistic, and writes very beautifully about how her family just refused to give in to her condition when she was a child. Her books pop right up on Amazon, and this Fresh Air interview is also wonderful. There are lots of very practical things that you can try applying to your own family situation, and they just should be required reading for parents of autism spectrum kids, because they are so affirming and inspriational.
posted by nax at 6:16 PM on October 18, 2009
One piece of practical guidance I can offer is to read the memoirs of Temple Grandin, who is autistic, and writes very beautifully about how her family just refused to give in to her condition when she was a child. Her books pop right up on Amazon, and this Fresh Air interview is also wonderful. There are lots of very practical things that you can try applying to your own family situation, and they just should be required reading for parents of autism spectrum kids, because they are so affirming and inspriational.
posted by nax at 6:16 PM on October 18, 2009
I want to add another voice to the "leave them alone" crowd.
When I was a teenager, I was miserable for a lot of reasons, and books/computing was very much my safe place where I felt, if not actually happy, at least less miserable. As several people have already noted, it was very much a social outlet for me, one that I didn't have as much in real life.
My suggestion would be not leave them alone all the time, but maybe to schedule one family outing a month. Even then, I wouldn't insist that they go--maybe make a rule that they'll go to at least half of the family outings, and let them pick which ones. Or, if you want them to attend every outing, say that they're allowed to bring a friend to half of them. Give them *some* sort of control over what you're doing, when you're doing it, and who you're doing it with. (So, you know, don't plan to leave the house at nine if you've got a kid who sleeps until noon--a bit of compromise is okay, but nothing kills a good time like having to wake up extra early to do something that you're not totally pumped about anyhow.)
Going places or doing things with my family was absolute hell for me from the ages of about eleven to twenty-one. It got to the point where I wouldn't even go on family vacations, because it was understood that I'd be miserable, that everyone else would be either angry or miserable because of me, and we'd all be happier if I stayed at home with my books and some tea. Which is what I did for most of my allegedly formative years.
This hasn't translated to a dysfunctional relationship with them as an adult, either. Don't get me wrong, sometimes they drive me insane and I don't speak with them for a few weeks, but for the most part, we see each other on a semi-regular basis, they're involved in my daughter's life, and when we do see each other, we can hang out and chat and enjoy ourselves.
posted by MeghanC at 6:16 PM on October 18, 2009
When I was a teenager, I was miserable for a lot of reasons, and books/computing was very much my safe place where I felt, if not actually happy, at least less miserable. As several people have already noted, it was very much a social outlet for me, one that I didn't have as much in real life.
My suggestion would be not leave them alone all the time, but maybe to schedule one family outing a month. Even then, I wouldn't insist that they go--maybe make a rule that they'll go to at least half of the family outings, and let them pick which ones. Or, if you want them to attend every outing, say that they're allowed to bring a friend to half of them. Give them *some* sort of control over what you're doing, when you're doing it, and who you're doing it with. (So, you know, don't plan to leave the house at nine if you've got a kid who sleeps until noon--a bit of compromise is okay, but nothing kills a good time like having to wake up extra early to do something that you're not totally pumped about anyhow.)
Going places or doing things with my family was absolute hell for me from the ages of about eleven to twenty-one. It got to the point where I wouldn't even go on family vacations, because it was understood that I'd be miserable, that everyone else would be either angry or miserable because of me, and we'd all be happier if I stayed at home with my books and some tea. Which is what I did for most of my allegedly formative years.
This hasn't translated to a dysfunctional relationship with them as an adult, either. Don't get me wrong, sometimes they drive me insane and I don't speak with them for a few weeks, but for the most part, we see each other on a semi-regular basis, they're involved in my daughter's life, and when we do see each other, we can hang out and chat and enjoy ourselves.
posted by MeghanC at 6:16 PM on October 18, 2009
Outings are fun but because of the planning and possibly expense and time involved, it's hard to imagine doing them more than a few times a month.
I think you should aim to have more quality time as a family than that.
Get a TiVo or whatever and let everyone pick a certain number of shows to record, watch them all together. That is the limit of TV time. Limit computer time too.
In the time that remains, do normal everyday stuff together.
Cooking, chores, playing music, listening to music, art projects, craft projects, hobbies, walks, gardening, reading books. You and your wife have to set the tone by doing things together first. The kids will join in if they see you having fun, especially if you keep them away from their screens most of the time.
Let your stepson have independence and alone time, but don't allow that to be his his whole life.
posted by mai at 6:48 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think you should aim to have more quality time as a family than that.
Get a TiVo or whatever and let everyone pick a certain number of shows to record, watch them all together. That is the limit of TV time. Limit computer time too.
In the time that remains, do normal everyday stuff together.
Cooking, chores, playing music, listening to music, art projects, craft projects, hobbies, walks, gardening, reading books. You and your wife have to set the tone by doing things together first. The kids will join in if they see you having fun, especially if you keep them away from their screens most of the time.
Let your stepson have independence and alone time, but don't allow that to be his his whole life.
posted by mai at 6:48 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Take it upon yourself to initiate a group activity. Take a trip to the city, visit something, build something, fix something, do charity work, see relatives, you get the idea. The family group isn't going to naturally hang together in unstructured time all that often. If you want them to get together you have to should build some group activities. Having dinner together every night, well most nights, is one thing we do. The rest of the days everyone does their own thing, except where one or both of the parents are taking the kids to activities or we have some group thing like a trip into the city. Jazz concerts are a good thing for us. Other families have other things. Some times when I can get my kids to cook with me or something that is great. The bottom line with kids, and even spouses, you need to take some initiative if you want to promote interactions. (I need to follow this advice more, so thanks for posting.)
posted by caddis at 7:12 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by caddis at 7:12 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would advise you to not diagnose your stepson yourself, even if he might have a handful of traits typically seen in those with Asperger's. He's 14, and discovering his own sense of independence, and pulling away somewhat is normal enough. Heck, even playing video games online can be a social activity.
That's part of the beauty of MMORPGs - they are inherently social to varying degrees, and if he's playing with friends, then it can serve a similar purpose as playtime in the same room. It's not exactly the same, but it's a parallel experience. Heck, people make lasting friendships and relationships through these games. I met a friend and my boyfriend on one. He met one of his mentors and his boss through other games. Playing MMOs isn't this solely dorky, niche, nerdy thing anymore.
There's also the distinct possibility that he's just rather shy and/or lacking some social development common to some geeky kids growing up (even someone like the younger version of yourself) that doesn't have to indicate he's anywhere on the autism spectrum.
And yes, try playing World of Warcraft with him.
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:57 PM on October 18, 2009
That's part of the beauty of MMORPGs - they are inherently social to varying degrees, and if he's playing with friends, then it can serve a similar purpose as playtime in the same room. It's not exactly the same, but it's a parallel experience. Heck, people make lasting friendships and relationships through these games. I met a friend and my boyfriend on one. He met one of his mentors and his boss through other games. Playing MMOs isn't this solely dorky, niche, nerdy thing anymore.
There's also the distinct possibility that he's just rather shy and/or lacking some social development common to some geeky kids growing up (even someone like the younger version of yourself) that doesn't have to indicate he's anywhere on the autism spectrum.
And yes, try playing World of Warcraft with him.
posted by cmgonzalez at 7:57 PM on October 18, 2009
The ultimate success of "family time" depends on if the participants are *truly* able to have a good time together. My loving and well-meaning parents dragged us on family activities and vacations as something Families Should Do, but it caused stress for all involved. The outings often had an educational flavor (museums, historical sites etc.) which held no interest to me at 14. Plus my parents never got along and the days were filled with tension and resentment, both between them and from me, as I perceived these forced activities as authoritarian and controlling. (I'm not saying this is the intent or the case with your family.) The memory of being 14 and even older, micro-managed on family vacation ("No you can't go off by yourself! Stay close to your little sister! Now we are all going to the museum!") still kind of makes me feel resentful and weary and glad to be grown and in my own home as I sit here in front of my screen sharing some nice quiet time with my partner who is also staring at a screen.
I did enjoy individual outings with mom or dad as a much younger child, though, when it had no medicinal, educational aspect. Like, just going to the hardware store with dad, or out to get ice cream or something.
posted by asynchronous at 9:28 PM on October 18, 2009
I did enjoy individual outings with mom or dad as a much younger child, though, when it had no medicinal, educational aspect. Like, just going to the hardware store with dad, or out to get ice cream or something.
posted by asynchronous at 9:28 PM on October 18, 2009
From what I've heard about WoW, he must be part of a 'guild?', with a group of close web-buddies. They plan raids, dungeon runs, (I forget the terminology), and if you're a no-show, that's bad form, and if you drop out halfway through, you're letting down your team. (Also you're not getting a chance to grind your character to n+1 level.)
He's getting socialized this way, in some respects but not others. It does sound like you need to pry him away from the computer for a few hours a week, but he's going to need forewarning or it'll screw up gaming with his buddies and he'll be resentful. (However, he does need the practice dealing with and bonding with real human beings including family, outside a computer screen)
Also, be careful overdiagnosing aspie traits, he may be just a teenager being a teenager.
One consideration: Drawn-out sunday brunches, served around the time a teenager gets up, with one or two favorite food items; even your most moody teenager probably isn't going to resent fresh chocolate chip waffles or diy pizza. Also, a big dinner every few weeks. This will give the family a chance to bond, and heck, you have to eat anyway. This is sort of the French approach to meals.
Be careful with hikes, gardening, museums, as one man's outing can be one teen's deathmarch, weeding, or boring museum. One possibility is to not deny his agency, but present him (and the family) with a handful of your suggestions: "We're going to go on an outing the weekend after next, and I've got these {hiking maps, TIC brochures, paint-your-ceramics thing, etc.} But where do _you_ want to go, and do you have any ideas?"
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:36 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
He's getting socialized this way, in some respects but not others. It does sound like you need to pry him away from the computer for a few hours a week, but he's going to need forewarning or it'll screw up gaming with his buddies and he'll be resentful. (However, he does need the practice dealing with and bonding with real human beings including family, outside a computer screen)
Also, be careful overdiagnosing aspie traits, he may be just a teenager being a teenager.
One consideration: Drawn-out sunday brunches, served around the time a teenager gets up, with one or two favorite food items; even your most moody teenager probably isn't going to resent fresh chocolate chip waffles or diy pizza. Also, a big dinner every few weeks. This will give the family a chance to bond, and heck, you have to eat anyway. This is sort of the French approach to meals.
Be careful with hikes, gardening, museums, as one man's outing can be one teen's deathmarch, weeding, or boring museum. One possibility is to not deny his agency, but present him (and the family) with a handful of your suggestions: "We're going to go on an outing the weekend after next, and I've got these {hiking maps, TIC brochures, paint-your-ceramics thing, etc.} But where do _you_ want to go, and do you have any ideas?"
posted by sebastienbailard at 10:36 PM on October 18, 2009 [1 favorite]
Have a standing sunday brunch. You and the kids plan and execute it (including clean up). If your wife is the main cook, she will appreciate having a meal made without her input. She'll appreciate not having to clean the kitchen as well.
Choose some dishes you can make the night before. You can have one dish be fairly complicated; lots of steps or something. That can be a project. Setting the table, cooking, conversation for a set time. Set it up buffet style but make everyone eat at the table. No getting a plate and scurrying away.
This way your kids will learn some valuable life skills; cooking, cleaning, conversation and you'll get some "together" time. If you plan carefully, you'll have a couple of breakfasts for school done beforehand.
posted by elle.jeezy at 6:00 AM on October 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
Choose some dishes you can make the night before. You can have one dish be fairly complicated; lots of steps or something. That can be a project. Setting the table, cooking, conversation for a set time. Set it up buffet style but make everyone eat at the table. No getting a plate and scurrying away.
This way your kids will learn some valuable life skills; cooking, cleaning, conversation and you'll get some "together" time. If you plan carefully, you'll have a couple of breakfasts for school done beforehand.
posted by elle.jeezy at 6:00 AM on October 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
You have the right instincts. Here are my suggestions:
1. If possible, eat dinner as a family every night. I realize it's not always possible but do your best. On the weekends, you can make it a more festive occasion and let the kids participate too. And, of course, you can always get dinner suggestions from both kids.
2. Don't be afraid to split up. You can take your son or daughter to a preferred activity alone and let mom watch the other child. One on one bonding is good too.
3. Your fourteen year old should have to earn his time on the computer (I'm assuming you use ABA with your daughter? It's the same concept). On weekdays, he should have to behave in school and do his homework before he gets to WoW. On weekends, he has to put in some family time before he can WoW. (Frankly I think playing WoW that much is unhealthy for anyone, adult or teenager. But a teenager especially should not spend all their time doing that.
4. Expand your horizons for what you can do as a family. Zoos, aquariums (Maybe a something involving military history for your son?) or museums that interest your kids. What about occasionally something special like an amusement park or the like?
And don't be afraid to take them to art museums as well, even if they hate it. I hated it as a kid but now I can't get enough of it.
Anyway, you seem to have the right instincts and please be aware that a fourteen year old step son will be a particular challenge.
But good luck!
posted by cjets at 12:03 PM on October 19, 2009
1. If possible, eat dinner as a family every night. I realize it's not always possible but do your best. On the weekends, you can make it a more festive occasion and let the kids participate too. And, of course, you can always get dinner suggestions from both kids.
2. Don't be afraid to split up. You can take your son or daughter to a preferred activity alone and let mom watch the other child. One on one bonding is good too.
3. Your fourteen year old should have to earn his time on the computer (I'm assuming you use ABA with your daughter? It's the same concept). On weekdays, he should have to behave in school and do his homework before he gets to WoW. On weekends, he has to put in some family time before he can WoW. (Frankly I think playing WoW that much is unhealthy for anyone, adult or teenager. But a teenager especially should not spend all their time doing that.
4. Expand your horizons for what you can do as a family. Zoos, aquariums (Maybe a something involving military history for your son?) or museums that interest your kids. What about occasionally something special like an amusement park or the like?
And don't be afraid to take them to art museums as well, even if they hate it. I hated it as a kid but now I can't get enough of it.
Anyway, you seem to have the right instincts and please be aware that a fourteen year old step son will be a particular challenge.
But good luck!
posted by cjets at 12:03 PM on October 19, 2009
Have you considered playing WOW with your stepson? It would be a nice way to connect. Then you can extend it out to going to Renaissance fairs and museums (armor and weapons!). You might find a chapter of SCA that you both could join. My sister and her husband play WOW with their son. It is a family adventure and it does not become a point of contention for them.
posted by fifilaru at 1:24 PM on October 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by fifilaru at 1:24 PM on October 19, 2009 [1 favorite]
All good suggestions here, and I have a little one to add: Do you or your wife ever go anywhere or do anything for writing research? Your stepson might appreciate coming along someplace strange or unusual, especially if it's something he can brag about to his WoW buddies. "We went to a TV studio!" "We went to an oil derrick!" "We went to the Gobi Desert!" "We went shooting at the range!"
I know not every writer goes someplace cool for research, but it would make a good excuse to write off a trip as a business expense and bring your family too. My mother is an author and we visited a live volcano in Chile, along with the abandoned town at its base, and it was an experience to remember. No resorts, no tours -- just us with a local guide roughing it in an authentic and intimate way. That's something that sticks with someone.
posted by Wyrmspace at 3:30 PM on October 20, 2009
I know not every writer goes someplace cool for research, but it would make a good excuse to write off a trip as a business expense and bring your family too. My mother is an author and we visited a live volcano in Chile, along with the abandoned town at its base, and it was an experience to remember. No resorts, no tours -- just us with a local guide roughing it in an authentic and intimate way. That's something that sticks with someone.
posted by Wyrmspace at 3:30 PM on October 20, 2009
Do you require the kids, you know, *do* anything?
Allowing a kid to play video games and watch television 100% of their free time seems, well, unhealthy in the long run. Then again, that's what most folks seem to do these days.
Pick one kid at a time, let them pick something they want to learn, try, or do, and do it with them, or encourage the hell out of 'em. Don't expect the change to work overnight.
And if you get the chance and hit the lottery, buy Blizzard Entertainment, buy all of the rights to WoW, and shut them the fuck off.
posted by talldean at 8:35 PM on October 21, 2009
Allowing a kid to play video games and watch television 100% of their free time seems, well, unhealthy in the long run. Then again, that's what most folks seem to do these days.
Pick one kid at a time, let them pick something they want to learn, try, or do, and do it with them, or encourage the hell out of 'em. Don't expect the change to work overnight.
And if you get the chance and hit the lottery, buy Blizzard Entertainment, buy all of the rights to WoW, and shut them the fuck off.
posted by talldean at 8:35 PM on October 21, 2009
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I think you should listen less to what your 14 year old thinks he wants to do. When I was 14, I basically wanted to do what your stepson does. I always resented it when my family took me on trips or on outings or whatever. But afterward, I always enjoyed what we had done more than that lost day in front of the computer.
As long as your wife is on board, I'm pretty sure your 5 year old will go along with whatever. So get thee out of the house!
posted by Happydaz at 10:40 AM on October 18, 2009 [11 favorites]