My Vehicle is a Piece of Crap
October 8, 2009 11:54 AM Subscribe
Car repair: I have a 2003 Kia Sedona. Due to a humming sound coming from the front end, we've taken it in to be diagnosed. It gets complicated . . .
The vehicle is a 2003 and has 54,000 miles on it.
We took it to our usual repair shop where it was determined that it needs new bearings and (possibly) hubs. For the shop to do it the cost would be about $900.00.
However, we decided to check to see if is still under warranty and called two Kia service (dealership) places.
1. Kia Place 1 told me that the bearings and hubs would be covered under warranty as long as we have proof that our timing belt has been replaced. He said that needed to be replaced at 5 years or 60k.
We have not replaced our timing belt because it has not hit 60,000 miles yet (even though it is over 5 years old).
Kia Place 1 then told me that if I got the timing belt replaced (a $540.00 chore) then the bearings and hubs would be covered.
2. I called Kia Place 2 (which is located about 2 HOURS away) that has our service records from another Kia service center that closed down. I explained what was happening.
He said that what Kia Place 1 told me wasn't the case. He said the timing belt doesn't need to be replaced until 60,000 miles and that the bearings and hubs would be covered as long as we showed minimum service on the vehicle (oil changes every 7500 miles).
3. I called Kia Place 1 back and told them what Kia Place 2 had said - that we just need proof of oil changes and that the timing belt doesn't need to be replaced until 60,000 miles. Kia Place 1 told me that Kia Place 2 didn't have it right and that it was 5 years or 60,000 miles - which ever came first to get the timing belt changed. He also said that he's known of cases like this going to court and that Kia has won.
So, who do I trust if anyone? Why get the timing belt changed before 60,000? What if I only drove it 10,000 miles in those 5 years, would I still need to get it changed?
I guess my question is: where do I go from here? Kia Place 2 spent a lot of time on the phone with me and looked stuff up for me telling me as long as I had oil change records the bearings and hubs would be covered. The problem I see with Kia Place 2 is that it is 2 hours away (one way) and if I take it there, there is a chance that they'd renege on that and require the timing belt be changed in order to get the bearings and hubs covered. I'm pretty sure they won't guarantee anything over the phone without looking at the vehicle first - and two hours one way is a long way.
The vehicle is a 2003 and has 54,000 miles on it.
We took it to our usual repair shop where it was determined that it needs new bearings and (possibly) hubs. For the shop to do it the cost would be about $900.00.
However, we decided to check to see if is still under warranty and called two Kia service (dealership) places.
1. Kia Place 1 told me that the bearings and hubs would be covered under warranty as long as we have proof that our timing belt has been replaced. He said that needed to be replaced at 5 years or 60k.
We have not replaced our timing belt because it has not hit 60,000 miles yet (even though it is over 5 years old).
Kia Place 1 then told me that if I got the timing belt replaced (a $540.00 chore) then the bearings and hubs would be covered.
2. I called Kia Place 2 (which is located about 2 HOURS away) that has our service records from another Kia service center that closed down. I explained what was happening.
He said that what Kia Place 1 told me wasn't the case. He said the timing belt doesn't need to be replaced until 60,000 miles and that the bearings and hubs would be covered as long as we showed minimum service on the vehicle (oil changes every 7500 miles).
3. I called Kia Place 1 back and told them what Kia Place 2 had said - that we just need proof of oil changes and that the timing belt doesn't need to be replaced until 60,000 miles. Kia Place 1 told me that Kia Place 2 didn't have it right and that it was 5 years or 60,000 miles - which ever came first to get the timing belt changed. He also said that he's known of cases like this going to court and that Kia has won.
So, who do I trust if anyone? Why get the timing belt changed before 60,000? What if I only drove it 10,000 miles in those 5 years, would I still need to get it changed?
I guess my question is: where do I go from here? Kia Place 2 spent a lot of time on the phone with me and looked stuff up for me telling me as long as I had oil change records the bearings and hubs would be covered. The problem I see with Kia Place 2 is that it is 2 hours away (one way) and if I take it there, there is a chance that they'd renege on that and require the timing belt be changed in order to get the bearings and hubs covered. I'm pretty sure they won't guarantee anything over the phone without looking at the vehicle first - and two hours one way is a long way.
Have Kia Place 2 call call Kia place 1 and let them sort it out. If all else fails call the 1-800 number for the factory warranty program and let them handle the situation.
I had a Jeep dealer try and get out of replacing a bad catalytic converter. I called the warranty 800 number and they handled the whole situation for me. 3-way call, yelled at the dealer for me and then had work performed and double checked it all. Got a free rental and a check for $50 from the Jeep warranty program.
posted by Gravitus at 12:11 PM on October 8, 2009
I had a Jeep dealer try and get out of replacing a bad catalytic converter. I called the warranty 800 number and they handled the whole situation for me. 3-way call, yelled at the dealer for me and then had work performed and double checked it all. Got a free rental and a check for $50 from the Jeep warranty program.
posted by Gravitus at 12:11 PM on October 8, 2009
I'd suggest talking to a zone manager to iron out the discrepancies between the two dealers.
posted by torquemaniac at 12:13 PM on October 8, 2009
posted by torquemaniac at 12:13 PM on October 8, 2009
Kia Place 1 told me that the bearings and hubs would be covered under warranty as long as we have proof that our timing belt has been replaced.
I don't understand this reasoning. Bearings and hubs both have to do with the axles, like, where the brakes are, right next to the wheels. The timing belt is way up on the engine. Why would they stipulate such a requirement for that work?
Why get the timing belt changed before 60,000? What if I only drove it 10,000 miles in those 5 years, would I still need to get it changed?
Yes, rubber dries out after time. In fact, tires have just a 6-year lifespan regardless of mileage. In most cars, if your timing belt breaks, it means your engine is toast. Therefore, I can understand the 5-year replacement plan on that. But, still, timing belt has nothing to do with bearings/hubs...
Sounds like Kia Place 1 wants your money from routine maintenance and Kia Place 2 wants your money when you need your engine head rebuilt! ;-)
posted by StarmanDXE at 12:56 PM on October 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't understand this reasoning. Bearings and hubs both have to do with the axles, like, where the brakes are, right next to the wheels. The timing belt is way up on the engine. Why would they stipulate such a requirement for that work?
Why get the timing belt changed before 60,000? What if I only drove it 10,000 miles in those 5 years, would I still need to get it changed?
Yes, rubber dries out after time. In fact, tires have just a 6-year lifespan regardless of mileage. In most cars, if your timing belt breaks, it means your engine is toast. Therefore, I can understand the 5-year replacement plan on that. But, still, timing belt has nothing to do with bearings/hubs...
Sounds like Kia Place 1 wants your money from routine maintenance and Kia Place 2 wants your money when you need your engine head rebuilt! ;-)
posted by StarmanDXE at 12:56 PM on October 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: What if I only drove it 10,000 miles in those 5 years, would I still need to get it changed?
Yeah. A timing belt is like a tire. It can wear out from use or dry-rot from disuse. What they're saying is that 5 years of disuse is equivalent to 60k of use. You should think about getting it changed soon.
However, your timing belt has NOTHING to do with your wheel bearings. At all. End of story.
To deny a warranty claim, they need to show that your neglect, abuse, or modification is the direct cause of the component failure. If your vehicle is still under warranty, they should slap some new bearings on and send you on your way, even if your car had needed 10 timing belt replacements by now.
Your timing belt should only pertain to your engine warranty. Like, if the belt pops and you wipe out your valves and you're past-due on your belt replacement, they can deny your claim. Or if you water pump fails and it should have been replaced at the belt interval, then they can deny your claim. But that's about it.
At Audi, I never check a vehicle's oil change history if I have to put a wheel bearing in under warranty. I'd check it to see if that bearing had been replaced one or more times previously, but I wouldn't care the least bit about oil change records. Only if I was doing a repair to engine internals, would I check the service history, like an oil sludge repair.
Call Kia customer relations and explain your situation. They should sort this out for you pretty quickly.
posted by Jon-o at 12:58 PM on October 8, 2009
Yeah. A timing belt is like a tire. It can wear out from use or dry-rot from disuse. What they're saying is that 5 years of disuse is equivalent to 60k of use. You should think about getting it changed soon.
However, your timing belt has NOTHING to do with your wheel bearings. At all. End of story.
To deny a warranty claim, they need to show that your neglect, abuse, or modification is the direct cause of the component failure. If your vehicle is still under warranty, they should slap some new bearings on and send you on your way, even if your car had needed 10 timing belt replacements by now.
Your timing belt should only pertain to your engine warranty. Like, if the belt pops and you wipe out your valves and you're past-due on your belt replacement, they can deny your claim. Or if you water pump fails and it should have been replaced at the belt interval, then they can deny your claim. But that's about it.
At Audi, I never check a vehicle's oil change history if I have to put a wheel bearing in under warranty. I'd check it to see if that bearing had been replaced one or more times previously, but I wouldn't care the least bit about oil change records. Only if I was doing a repair to engine internals, would I check the service history, like an oil sludge repair.
Call Kia customer relations and explain your situation. They should sort this out for you pretty quickly.
posted by Jon-o at 12:58 PM on October 8, 2009
Best answer: Call Kia directly and get the official word and then go from there. The fact of the matter is that the bearings have absolutely nothing to do with the timing belt (or the engine oil) and their failure is entirely unrelated to maintenance you may or may not have done on the engine.
He also said that he's known of cases like this going to court and that Kia has won.
This is slimy bullshit. Don't listen to it, call Kia directly, and get this sorted out.
posted by ssg at 1:05 PM on October 8, 2009
He also said that he's known of cases like this going to court and that Kia has won.
This is slimy bullshit. Don't listen to it, call Kia directly, and get this sorted out.
posted by ssg at 1:05 PM on October 8, 2009
Response by poster: Just called Kia directly. Hubs and bearings are covered under 10 yr. /100,000 mile warranty and have nothing to do with timing belt or oil change maintenance.
Also called another Kia service center (located only 1 hr away) and they said the same thing as Kia direct.
Three against one and it looks like we'll be getting it fixed for free!
Thanks for the input and for suggesting to call Kia directly. I hadn't thought of that.
posted by Sassyfras at 1:41 PM on October 8, 2009
Also called another Kia service center (located only 1 hr away) and they said the same thing as Kia direct.
Three against one and it looks like we'll be getting it fixed for free!
Thanks for the input and for suggesting to call Kia directly. I hadn't thought of that.
posted by Sassyfras at 1:41 PM on October 8, 2009
Response by poster: Another side note: we recently got the front axle replaced - it was not covered so we went through our regular repair shop. So, the part is not a Kia part.
Would this affect the bearings and hubs? Would that be cause for denying to replace the hubs and bearings?
posted by Sassyfras at 1:44 PM on October 8, 2009
Would this affect the bearings and hubs? Would that be cause for denying to replace the hubs and bearings?
posted by Sassyfras at 1:44 PM on October 8, 2009
Would this affect the bearings and hubs? Would that be cause for denying to replace the hubs and bearings
Potentially, yes. The axle splines through the hub and is retained via threads on the end of the axle shaft. A big nut threads onto the axle and clamps it to the hub. If that nut was greatly overtightened, it could cause bearing failure. Again, they'd have to prove that the nut was a) over torqued and b) singlehandedly caused the bearing failure.
The tech will probably take the whole thing apart before noticing the axle is an aftermarket part at which point there'll be no way to determine the initial torque of the axle nut. Don't worry about it.
posted by Jon-o at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2009
Potentially, yes. The axle splines through the hub and is retained via threads on the end of the axle shaft. A big nut threads onto the axle and clamps it to the hub. If that nut was greatly overtightened, it could cause bearing failure. Again, they'd have to prove that the nut was a) over torqued and b) singlehandedly caused the bearing failure.
The tech will probably take the whole thing apart before noticing the axle is an aftermarket part at which point there'll be no way to determine the initial torque of the axle nut. Don't worry about it.
posted by Jon-o at 3:13 PM on October 8, 2009
Also if the nut was undertightened would a problem arise.
Did the noise start soon after the axle was replaced? If so, call the shop that did the work and expiain what happened. Is the noise on the same side? I have seen many bad axles come from 'rebuilders'.
posted by KenManiac at 7:12 PM on October 8, 2009
Did the noise start soon after the axle was replaced? If so, call the shop that did the work and expiain what happened. Is the noise on the same side? I have seen many bad axles come from 'rebuilders'.
posted by KenManiac at 7:12 PM on October 8, 2009
Response by poster: It's with Kia right now. We'll get the verdict tomorrow. Crossing my fingers! Thanks again for the input.
posted by Sassyfras at 7:47 PM on October 8, 2009
posted by Sassyfras at 7:47 PM on October 8, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by 6550 at 12:08 PM on October 8, 2009