Bookstores: Is it ok to read merchandise you're not going to buy in the bookstore's cafe?

October 4, 2009 3:16 PM

Bookstores: Is it ok to read merchandise you're not going to buy in the bookstore's cafe?

As an avid reader, I visit my local Borders and Barnes and Noble a lot. I often notice people reading books and magazines in the store's cafe (usually a Starbuck's). Is this ok to do if you have no intention of buying what you're reading? Is it frowned upon? Are you only supposed to do this with merchandise you've already bought? Do you do it?

I'm curious what the etiquette is on this.

posted by capitalist.pig to shopping (58 comments total)

It's fine.
posted by proj at 3:18 PM on October 4

I've never seen a store employee try to dissuade someone from doing it.

But, then, I don't really spend a lot of time in bookstore cafes.
posted by box at 3:19 PM on October 4

I've always thought it rude. Who wants to buy a book greasy with someone elses biscotti besotted fingers, not to mention coffee stains.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 3:21 PM on October 4 [8 favorites has favorites]

I do it all the time. No one has ever bothered me, and occasionally I do buy a book that I otherwise would have put back on the shelf.
posted by rumsey monument at 3:21 PM on October 4

I do it, although I'm very careful if I don't intend on buying the book. That being said, I usually only begin books that I want to finish, and thus buy whatever it is that I read in the cafe. Also, no one has ever said anything to me about it, and after spending many hours in bookstore cafes, can safely say that many other people do it as well.
posted by I_love_the_rain at 3:24 PM on October 4

The Canadian equivalent of Barnes and Nobles, called Indigo/Chapters, often have Starbucks in them. And the one I frequent has a big sign stating "Only purchased books and magazines allowed in Starbucks". This sign always amuses me because I always thought this went without saying. It's a bookstore, not a library, and please don't spill stuff on merchandise you haven't paid for.
posted by meerkatty at 3:26 PM on October 4 [6 favorites has favorites]

I think if they're going to put a coiffeeshop in their bookstore, it's not fair to ask you not to read while you drink coffee and eat biscotti. And don't break the spines of softcovers.
posted by theora55 at 3:26 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

I used to be the assistant manager of a large chain bookstore, and this is definitely ok. The longer you stay, the better the chance you'll end up buying something, even if it's just a cup of coffee.
posted by fresh-rn at 3:27 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

My local big box bookshop (Chapters mentioned upthread) does not allow people to read unpaid-for books and magazines in the coffeshop (and removed all the comfy chairs they used to have in the shop) because too many people were damaging the merchandise and bookshop margins are pretty thin to begin with. As a former bookseller who would have to clean up after those types of customers (because they were the messiest) I would not do it personally. I use the public library to read materials I do not wish to purchase. I do not think this is an etiquette question as much as store policy/your feelings on the role of consumerism and supporting businesses (I buy at an independent shop though - not big box unless I am given a gift card).
posted by saucysault at 3:28 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

I do this occasionally and don't find anything wrong with it. I'm buying coffee, and I often buy magazines also. So they get plenty of my money. I've never had Barnes and Noble say anything (it's a B&N cafe, not a starbucks. They simply serve starbucks branded coffee) and I'm sure they know it often leads to a sale.

However, what is gross is that many people bring the magazines to the bathroom and after 'reading' them leave them in the stall. The majority of times employees simply return these magazines to their original locations.

Now, that I have a problem with.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 3:29 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

I did this just yesterday. I don't sit there and read an entire book (who has that kind of time?), but I think it is perfectly fine to take a book or two to a table and flip through them to see if they are what you would like to purchase. However, if I were eating/drinking while skimming, I would be very careful not to spill/smudge.
posted by susiepie at 3:29 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

I usually read through at least part of a book in the bookstore so I can determine if I want it or not. I usually end up getting something, if not necessarily what I was reading. I also don't actually EAT while doing that. And I would be careful about drinking too.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:34 PM on October 4

I see a lot of people doing this, but think it's rude as hell.

If i wanted a used book, I would buy one, for a fraction of the cost.
posted by shownomercy at 3:37 PM on October 4 [3 favorites has favorites]

I certainly do not think there is any ethical stricture against reading books in the bookstore cafe that you don't intend to buy --- don't put a cafe in your bookstore if you don't want people gunking the books up --- but I can't help thinking that people who do that are pathetic. I don't know why. It just seems like such a lonely, loserish thing to do, to camp out in a bookstore coffee shop and read books you don't plan to buy.
posted by jayder at 3:46 PM on October 4

I'd be very disinclined to buy a book that someone else had left crumbs in from a new book bookshop. In fact, I'd be disinclined to buy a book from a shop with a cafe for this very reason. If I'm buying a new book, I want as few hands to have touched it as possible. If it's a second hand bookshop, all bets are off. I'll buy anything readable.

Unless the new book bookshop has a book specifically for reading in the cafe area, I'd say no. I can just imagine someone reading a book, mussing it up, then putting it back on the shelf and grabbing another copy of the same book to actually buy. I don't want to buy that first book by accident.
posted by Solomon at 3:49 PM on October 4

Thanks for all the answers so far.

Another thing: I, also, often see students doing homework in bookstores, using merchandise for citations/research/solutions. What are your thoughts on this?
posted by capitalist.pig at 3:53 PM on October 4

To those saying its rude - what exactly you expect/believe the purpose of the cafe in the bookstore to be? Should we be buying all our books first and then enjoying a coffee? Or should we only bring books that we have in the intention of buying into the cafe? Especially with the trend of removing the comfy chairs & stools that used to litter bookstores to make room for more shelves. Its not a supermarket dammit, you're supposed to be creating an environment that makes people want to read.

It seems to me that the purpose of the cafe is to tempt you into sitting down with a book (and buying a coffee) so that you will buy the book. I personally don't like to spent money on a book I don't feel at least somewhat confident I will enjoy, and there is rarely no way to determine that without sitting down and reading a chapter or two.
posted by ish__ at 3:53 PM on October 4 [5 favorites has favorites]

Powell's has a sign asking that customers not take unpurchased books into their cafe, just as another data point.

It seems to me there are two things here: one is reading a book you don't intend to buy; one is possibly getting food on a book you don't intend to buy.

The first one is pretty much accepted, I think, because it's too hard to draw a line between acceptable amounts of pre-reading and just camping out in the store to read a book. Bookstore workers do often complain about customers who do that, though.

The acceptability of eating while reading a book you're not buying seems to be up in the air. Personally, I disapprove, but it sounds like some major bookstores don't mind.
posted by hattifattener at 3:53 PM on October 4

Followup to clarify: but if you do gunk up a book or spill something on it, you should buy it regardless. You break it you bought it.
posted by ish__ at 3:54 PM on October 4

Both Borders and Barnes and Noble bank on the hangout factor - seeing people reading pressures other people to buy books so they can read, too. It's been very effective so far.
posted by medea42 at 4:10 PM on October 4

Another followup question: Is it ok to read in the cafe without buying a drink or anything else in the cafe?
posted by capitalist.pig at 4:12 PM on October 4

I used to be an assistant manager in a large chain--we never discouraged reading in the cafe. However, if you do so, it's much appreciated by the cafe staff if you put books/magazines back after you are done. At the end of the night (especially weekends!) our staff would have stacks and stacks of books and magazines from cafe tables that would need to be reshelved--we often had to devote one staff member just to putting these back after closing.
We never asked anyone using a table in the cafe to purchase anything to drink--but personally I now always at least buy a soda if I'm going to be in a bookstore cafe for a significant length of time.
We did have signs asking folks not to take books into the restrooms--big "ick" factor there!
posted by bookmammal at 4:20 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

Yes. It's okay to bring books and magazines to read in the cafe with no purchase intent. Having said that, the right thing to do is to buy a drink in the cafe.

To your followup question:

If you don't plan to buy anything in the cafe, then it is not right to take up place in the cafe area.
posted by jchaw at 4:21 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

Seriously? Would you go into a mattress store and take a long nap on a display bed? Would you go into Best Buy and sit and watch a complete movie on one of their DVD/TV units?

I don't want to spend $25 on a book that you just sat and picked your way through in the bookstore coffee shop with your greasy donut stained fingers. Go to Borders and buy a book and then sit and read that in the coffee shop or just sit there and drink your coffee, but don't grab something off a shelf and treat the bookstore like your local library.
posted by 543DoublePlay at 4:25 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

Neither the big-box bookstore (Chapters) nor the independent ones where I live allow people to bring books they haven't paid for in their café. There's nothing wrong with sitting down with a book and reading a bit of it before you decide to buy it (or not), but I find the idea of settling down with a cup of tea and a book I haven't paid for very odd.

As for reading a (purchased) book in a café and not buying anything: taking up a table and not buying anything is rude in my book, whether or not the place is crowded.
posted by OLechat at 4:29 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

The stores themselves don't have any kind of social obligation to me, I don't have any kind of social obligation to them. So it's not rude, unless you're somehow inconveniencing a person. A store or corporate entity is not a person.

Yes, I would watch a complete movie at Best Buy unless they kicked me out, or I was keeping someone after work, or making a mess.
posted by kathrineg at 4:30 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

543DoublePlay: "Seriously? ... Would you go into Best Buy and sit and watch a complete movie on one of their DVD/TV units?"

Actually, I have done that. But only when the movie was playing anyway. I never set anything up so that I could watch something that the store didn't want to show.

To answer your questions though:

1 - Most of the bookstores I go to have chairs throughout the store. If they didn't want you to sit around and read the books...

2 - Obviously you can't tell what the homework is. It could be something where they need to go to a bookstore or library and find something really quick just to have a citation and no paper to go with it. However, I see nothing wrong with students doing this. It's more work than finding an article online and citing it when you didn't really use it. not that I ever did that.

3 - If there are chairs throughout the store then read in those. If there aren't chairs then I say go ahead and sit in the cafe. After all, it is part of the bookstore.
posted by theichibun at 4:34 PM on October 4

yeah, this is particular to the kind of cafe - smaller bookstores with lower overheads often have a more separated cafe that you can't just wander in and out of but you have to sort of officially enter, whereas the B&N set up is more like there's a coffee bar and a bunch of tables & chairs in the magazine section of the bookstore, practically inviting you to browse and settle in for a bit.

People read anyway in big bookstores - they'll find a spot in a corner and just read a book or article on the floor. Whether it's cool to buy a coffee and sit in their cafe while doing so is something I judge based on the arrangement of the bookstore.

And the point of buying a book isn't just to read it. It's to read it multiple times, write in the margins, curl up in bed with it, refer to it on the spur of the moment, have it on the bookshelf when friends come over so it's the source of conversation or shared interest - if a book is worth buying when I read the first chapter in the bookstore, I'll buy it. But I don't like to buy a book based on a back-cover blurb. If I haven't read reviews or got a good sense about the book from other sources, I prefer to read some before committing, and if I make it through the whole book, if it's that good that I couldn't stop reading in the bookstore, I'll probably want to bring it home.
posted by mdn at 4:34 PM on October 4 [5 favorites has favorites]

My mom worked at Borders and she couldn't understand parents of toddlers who came in with their own snacks and drinks, left garbage and stained books everywhere, and treated the store like their own personal library. Then they never bought anything.

She also once caught a couple having sex in the back of the store, but I guess that's different.
posted by dzaz at 4:36 PM on October 4

From mdn:

"And the point of buying a book isn't just to read it. It's to read it multiple times, write in the margins, curl up in bed with it, refer to it on the spur of the moment, have it on the bookshelf when friends come over so it's the source of conversation or shared interest"

That was beautiful.
posted by capitalist.pig at 4:38 PM on October 4

My favorite locally-owned bookstore has situated the magazine section right by the cafe and every coffee-sipping customer has a stack. It is rather obvious that this is intended. On the other hand, the local Barnes and Noble has a Starbucks franchise that is quite separate, and no merchandise is allowed in there. Guess which one I patronize?
posted by Wordwoman at 4:48 PM on October 4

There's nothing wrong with sitting down with a book and reading a bit of it before you decide to buy it (or not), but I find the idea of settling down with a cup of tea and a book I haven't paid for very odd.

Yeah, this pretty much sums up my approach. I've no problem with browsing in a comfy corner or non-cafe chair but to me there's something different about the cafe part - between the stains on the table and the crumbs and so forth I'm just not comfortable with it. But I'm in Canada too, with Chapters' signs.

Another followup question: Is it ok to read in the cafe without buying a drink or anything else in the cafe?

If it's dead maybe, but surely paying customers wanting the table will ask you to move on? And at that point it would be incredibly rude to say "no".
posted by jamesonandwater at 4:49 PM on October 4

I used to work at Borders, so I'll weigh in.

As far as the bookstore side of things goes: they want you to read in the café. That's why they put it there. The idea is that if you sit down and hang out, eventually you will buy something. If they make it cozy, you'll get comfortable and maybe you'll sit down with four or five books and buy one. But hey, that's one book they wouldn't have sold if you hadn't had the opportunity to really chill out in the store.

From the café end of things: Buy something. Anything. Please. I worked in the café and it seriously grated on my nerves to see customers taking up tables just to read. I mean, that's cool, but when there are people buying drinks who want to sit down and you're taking up real estate with your book... yeah, please, buy something. Never, EVER bring in a beverage from a different emporium. I had a bunch of regulars who did this - read Star Trek comics every single day while drinking lemonade form the food court. STUCK. IN. MY. CRAW.

Doing homework is fine. I was without in-home internet for a while and hung out in my old Borders for disturbing lengths of time a while back. I live right next door to the library, but their firewalls kept me from viewing half of the stuff I was trying to get at, which was annoying. Also: depending on the library, the bookstore might actually have better reference material, sad to say.

Buy anything. Tip the counter staff. Read to your heart's content.

As for everyone worrying about coffee spills: If you find one of these in your book, mention it to the manager. My store had a policy that damaged books got a certain % off. I've used this in other stores - when there's only one copy of a book that I want, and someone ripped it - at least 10% off is standard.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 4:49 PM on October 4 [5 favorites has favorites]

I just skimmed the answers, so forgive me if someone already voiced this vitriol: if this concern is just for B&N and Borders, not Independent Bookstore Getting Squeezed Out By B&N and Borders, then do it. As long as you're respectful of the merchandise, put everything back where it belongs, and don't leave chocolate croissant stains on the new Lorrie Moore hardback (highly recommended, btw) then this is hardly the worst customer behavior they will have to put up with that day. I have about as much concern for the welfare of a B&N as I do for Boeing and Xe. These are huge megaliths that intimidate publishing companies to sell their books at lower prices so they can offer corporate business, which is why said Lorrie Moore hardback is offered at a 20% discount at B&N and the regular $25.95 at the struggling private bookstore down the street.

If this is the latter kind of bookstore, then I'd feel less comfortable hanging in their tiny quarters where the staff can see everything I'm doing and wonder when the hell I'll get out of the travel section so they can restock. I am generally far more heedful of bookstore etiquette when I know that bookstore is competing against soulless chains that strong arm their way to cheap merchandise.

In conclusion, I wouldn't wring my hands over the proper etiquette at B&N. They have those cafes so people will buy shit, and if they don't like that you're using a table for three hours to read the first half of that hardback and then put it back, take comfort that someone else will plop down $4 for a cappuccino, $4.50 for a New Yorker at magazine stand prices, and $15 for a leather-bound diary they'll never write in.
posted by zoomorphic at 5:08 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

I have about as much concern for the welfare of a B&N as I do for Boeing and Xe.

I like that.
posted by jayder at 5:45 PM on October 4

You have a bunch of subquestions. Here's an answer to all of them:

If no store employee asks you to leave or change your behavior, your behavior is acceptable to the store.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:46 PM on October 4 [4 favorites has favorites]

I do it all the time - in my local barnes & noble, the cafe doesn't care what you bring it and even has a rack of magazines (the cafe is sort seperated from the main store) for your perusal. I often go get a coffee and sit down with the magazines that I'm not interested in enough to buy/subscribe, but would like to flip through. Same goes for books, though I'm very careful with them. If I ever soiled one, I would be honest and buy it, and I rarely take small paperbacks or anything else for which it is pretty much impossible to show the signs of use. I don't see a problem with what I do.

And to answer the question about not buying anything in the cafe and then reading in it: if it's full, then I think it rude - you can just find a nook of the bookstore and sit on the floor, or come back at a less popular time. My barnes & noble has a sign stating that the cafe is for food-buyers only, but they have a ton of huge comfy chairs, tables, etc. outside of that area open to anyone so it's not really a problem.
posted by R a c h e l at 6:42 PM on October 4

I use the public library to read materials I do not wish to purchase.

Interesting. I wonder why libraries don't start hosting mini-coffee shops. You could hang out as long as you like, read as much as you like, and drink as much as you like. Even better, the money from the Vente Lattes could go right into the library's budget, which would then be used to upgrade the library and make everybody's experience more awesome.
posted by Afroblanco at 7:07 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

Oh my god, no offense but some of you guys are way too easily grossed out! "Oh no, I can't read a book that someone's hands have been on!" They're books people -- are you planning to lick each page?

I hang out and read junk at B&N/Borders all the time (which, according to someone upthread, makes me "pathetic". Jeesh!!!). Never felt bad about it once. That's what they're there for. I do my best not to get my filth all over the products, so I hope that reassures some of you.
posted by imalaowai at 7:22 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

If they want you to not do something, they'll tell you. If enough people do it, they'll put up a sign. The cafe is a loss leader. The purpose of it being there is for you to read in it while you drink coffee and eat cake, and if you don't finish your book by the time you have to go, you will probably buy it. The purpose of you being allowed to take books into the cafe, is so you will buy cake and coffee (on which the margin is at least as good as books), because sitting and reading in a coffee-smelling room will make you want a coffee.

The price of that is the occasional freerider who sits and reads a book without buying anything (apparently immune to the social pressure of other people eating), then puts it back on the shelf somewhat damaged. This causes a loss of the wholesale price of the book, ie a few bucks; on the other hand, even that freerider was seen by other customers reading the book. People imitate each other.

Bookstore owners watch their margins too. If sales didn't noticeably go up when the cafe was put in, they would have taken it out already.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 7:33 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

Powell's has a sign asking that customers not take unpurchased books into their cafe, just as another data point.

That's curious. Downtown? I was going to say "Powells has a reshelve cart parked in their café, which I take to be pretty implicit encouragement to read things you have yet to decide to purchase." But then, it's been a long time since I've hit the coffee shop, and I know it's changed management. Maybe things have changed.

To the question, though, I reckon that unless they tell you otherwise, you should feel just fine making your purchasing decisions over a nice tall coffee. Of course, as has been said upthread, if you stain, crumb-up, or otherwise make nasty the book, then you broke it and you should buy it. Don't be shitty to your bookseller.
posted by mumkin at 7:50 PM on October 4

Just for Afroblanco's benefit: opening cafes/coffeeshops/whatever is very hip within the library world right now, and they're extremely common in new library buildings. Like anything else that involves changing entrenched behavior or embracing the retail model, not everybody in libraryland is totally on board. That said, libraries opening cafes is definitely the way the wind is blowing these days.
posted by box at 7:58 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

I wonder why libraries don't start hosting mini-coffee shops.

The one up the street does. Started a year or so ago. Also, if you spill coffee on a book you're reading in the cafe, you should at least have the conscience to tell the store about it, if not buy the damn thing.
posted by mediareport at 7:58 PM on October 4

"The stores themselves don't have any kind of social obligation to me, I don't have any kind of social obligation to them. So it's not rude, unless you're somehow inconveniencing a person. A store or corporate entity is not a person."

Seriously? Stores and corporations are not people, but they are made out of people: employees, investors, vendors, and customers to name a few. For the most part, behavior that inconveniences the store or corporation is going to inconvenience people, whether it's the employee who has to clean up after you or the paying customer who has to stand because you're hogging the seats. You don't get to excuse your bad behavior just because you were doing it to a corporation.

In this particular case, I don't think there's anything wrong with reading unpurchased merchandise in the cafe-- in fact, many stores encourage it, provided that you have purchased a beverage, but as ish__ says, you break it you buy it.

But in general, being a dick to a corporate entity is no different from being a dick to real people. Now I may decide that, say, US Airways is an entity I do not like, and so I will generally be less accommodating of their needs/desires/policies and more insistent of my own when I deal with them, while remaining polite. But I don't do this solely because USAir is a corporation, I do it because, in my general experience, they are a bunch of jerks, and so I will interact with them in the same way I would deal with a person who had previously acted like a jerk towards me: politely, but firmly and stubbornly. That's only fair. However, you don't get to be rude to people just because they happen to be employees of a corporate entity.
posted by zachlipton at 8:02 PM on October 4

The Rocketbomber's blog might interest you. He's a manager of a large bookstore. He holds the coffee-drinkers in contempt -- in fact, they are in 2 different categories of "Types of Customers" (The Grazers, and The Campers).

"The only redeeming feature of a grazer is that they can only accomplish their task with a cup of coffee in their hand — pardon, with a $4 half-soy-half-decaf-latte-with-a-shot-of-pretention — and while they clog the main aisle and generally pose a hazard to navigation, they are mostly harmless. They might try to casually engage you conversation, “How’s Business?”, but they don’t really care. Their primary goal is being in a bookstore for an hour each week so they can insert an off-hand, “oh I saw that the other day at Big Box Books” in later conversations, proving to their friends that they are topical and literate."

"We’re not a library, so don’t complain to me that the music is too loud or we don’t have a free table at 9pm on a Saturday night. We’re not the library. Hell, the library isn’t even open at 9pm on a Saturday night. Yeah, fine, bring in your bookbag and use our stacks like a giant reference section and hell, bring in your study partners or the group project or whatever — just remember that this isn’t the school library. We’ve got our own thing, trying to run a business and all, and while I know the dressed-all-in-black grad student is buying triple espressos, maybe the rest of you could also purchase something while you tie up two tables and empty three shelves out of the graphic design section?"

He tolerates the coffee sales because of the margins.

"There’s a connection between coffee and ideas. As a bookseller, we can capitalize on that. And the margins on coffee are excellent.... The other trick is that I can sell a cup of coffee to a customer every day. Twice a day, sometimes.

Sandwiches and cakes are an easy add-on, once you’ve established the coffee.

You could stock every book ever written. Alas, it isn’t quite enough. Thank several gods not just for coffee, but for the byzantine selection of espresso drinks, milkshakes masquerading as coffee, and a public inured to $3 cups of coffee to begin with. (Thank You, Starbucks)"

posted by Houstonian at 8:09 PM on October 4

I do it mainly with magazines or "quick" books, by which I mean the stupid shit you find in the Humour section and would never purchase but nevertheless might get a chuckle or two out of. Main reason I do this is because there's never enough places to actually sit in the bookstore itself. If the bookstore doesn't want its books read in the cafe they should arrange for more seating in the bookstore proper. I never buy a book that I haven't spent at least fifteen minutes with and I refuse to stand in the aisle when I do so, because that makes me one of those assholes who stands in aisles in bookstores and blocks everybody else's access to the volumes and I hate those people. And if there's crumbs and some coffee on the book, or the spine is creased, bonus - you want the book, you tell them to give you a discount for damaged goods, and they do. Also if you're too precious to buy a book that other people have, god forbid, handled, then you aren't a lover of books as sources of entertainment or edification, you're a lover of books as objects and thereby a neurotic poser.

Rich Guy: Those books. How much?
Bernard: Hmmm?
Rich Guy: Those books. The leather-bound ones.
Bernard: Yes, Dickens, the Collected Works of Charles Dickens.
Rich Guy: Are they real leather?
Bernard: They're real Dickens.
Rich Guy: I have to know if they're real leather because they have to go with the sofa.
[Bernard looks confused]
Rich Guy: Everything else in my house is real. I'll give you two hundred for them.
Bernard: Two hundred what?
Rich Guy: Two hundred pounds.
Bernard: Are they leather-bound pounds?
Rich Guy: No.
Bernard: Sorry. I need leather bound pounds to go with my wallet. Next!
posted by turgid dahlia at 8:10 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

And if there's crumbs and some coffee on the book, or the spine is creased, bonus - you want the book, you tell them to give you a discount for damaged goods, and they do.

You really do that? You ask for a discount for the damage that you caused?
posted by Houstonian at 8:18 PM on October 4

Also: depending on the library, the bookstore might actually have better reference material, sad to say.

Admittedly, I might be a little biased, but I've been in flagship big-box bookstores, and I've been in flat-broke rural (or inner-city, if you'd prefer) public libraries. And, even stacking the deck, the libraries still have better reference collections. And, frankly, this should come as no surprise.

The people running the bookstores are professional booksellers. The people running the libraries are professional librarians. Booksellers can learn from librarians how to build reference collections (though I don't know why they'd want to), just like librarians can learn from booksellers how to move SKUs (e.g., by opening cafes).
posted by box at 8:29 PM on October 4

The bf and I spent the whole day (11am-5pm) studying at a Barnes and Noble where we ate breakfast AND lunch served by the in-store Starbucks.

This was a brand new, 2-story B&N. The cafe is on the 1st floor with nothing physically separating it from the rest of the store except for a few tables/armchairs, colored walls and mood lighting. There's a plastic magazine rack (Parenting, Vogue, Popular Mechanic, etc) next to the condiments - obviously there to browse while waiting for your order.

My breakfast, a slice of spinach quiche, came on a full-sized plate with a set of silverware on a cafeteria-style tray. Overkill given the portion size - plus, the tray was wider than the tables in the cafe. I asked the barista for a smaller plate and if I could take my food upstairs. "Sure, no problem," she said. By the end of the day, ours wasn't the only table with empty plates.

Although we spent money at the cafe, we used B&N's free WiFi and didn't browse any books. Would I do this at an independent bookstore? No. Do I feel badly doing this at B&N? No. Clearly, they expect people to camp out for long periods of time - from the full-service menu to the rows of tables and laptop outlets.
posted by yeoja at 10:08 PM on October 4

For what it's worth, I've worked at:

1. Borders in Buffalo (Cheektowaga, Store #100!)
2. B&N in Poughkeepsie, NY
3. B&N at Union Square, NYC

It never bothered me or any of my fellow-employees that people read in the cafe.
It never bothered us that people read in the cafe with drinks and snacky things.
It didn't bother me if people brought in their own drinks and snacky things.
It didn't bother me if they sat in the cafe and didn't buy anything from the cafe.
It (eventually) didn't bother me if customers damaged the goods by reading in the cafe with drinks and snacky things. (I hate waste. This bothered me for a while.)

Meh. A lot of things used to bother me, but not this stuff. Why? Either corporate wanted you to do them (read in the cafe.. even better, read with drinks and snaky things) or just didn't give a rat's ass (bring in your own drinks and snacky things).

I will point out, however, that some customer behaviors are just damn rude. Not necessarily rude to those of us wearing the corporate dog tags (though there was a lot of that), but rude to your fellow customers. Whoops! Did you just spill you coffee on that $25.95 hardcover? No prob. Give it to me and I'll take it into the back and damage it off. But the next hardcover you pick up is going to be priced at $25.97 (and so is everyone else's), because we had to make up the costs of the damaged merchandise. There ain't no free lunch.
posted by Vavuzi at 10:17 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

I can just imagine someone reading a book, mussing it up, then putting it back on the shelf and grabbing another copy of the same book to actually buy. I don't want to buy that first book by accident.

I've seen lots of people do this, not only with books but all manner of merchandise.

I once watched a woman try on a pair of rain/snow pants, in the middle of the store, in giant muddy boots. She proceeded to get mud all over the pants, as well as ripping the cuff on one leg. When it turned out the pants fit, she took them off, put them back on the shelf, picked up an exactly identical pair, and wandered off to check out.

And if there's crumbs and some coffee on the book, or the spine is creased, bonus - you want the book, you tell them to give you a discount for damaged goods, and they do.

A) If, as Houstonian says, you caused the damage yourself and then demand a dscount, you're a loser.

B) What is it with people demanding a discount for "damaged merchandise" when the damage does not impair the functionality of the object whatsoever? Where does this sense of entitlement come from? You're paying to procure an object for some function, right? If it fulfills the function, then the value of the object is unchanged regardless of how many cosmetic defects there are.

I can see how a coffee stain might reduce the utility of a book. But crumbs? And unless the spine is broken... you're just going to crease a paperback's spine in twenty minutes anyway.

I mean, my own wife tried to get me to ask for a discount on a giant steel mixing bowl that had a couple dents around the bottom. I paid full price for it and brought it home. Then I dropped it, putting yet another dent in it. Know what? It's the nicest mixing bowl I've ever owned.

All that said, I would prefer that if I'm paying for a new book, that it feel crisp and fresh. That crispness and freshness has value for me. So I'll, you know, buy the copy that hasn't been mauled.
posted by Netzapper at 10:19 PM on October 4 [1 favorite has favorites]

You ask for a discount for the damage that you caused?

Uh, no, I'm a cheapskate but not a jerk. I mean if it's in that condition due to having been in the cafe with somebody less responsible.

What is it with people demanding a discount for "damaged merchandise" when the damage does not impair the functionality of the object whatsoever?

Would you still pay a quarter of a million dollars for an Audi R8 with a great big fucking scratch on the door? On top of that, you ever tried to return something that has been inadvertently damaged? If it's the sort of thing a store isn't going to accept back in a disgraced condition, I don't see why I should be expected to purchase it from them for full price in same condition. If you get a discount you generally forefit the returns policy, which is fine by me.
posted by turgid dahlia at 10:42 PM on October 4 [2 favorites has favorites]

i've read plenty (several dozen) of complete novels at big box book retailers. sometimes i would camp just spend the entire afternoon there reading a single book, sometimes i would come back to finish it in a couple of sessions. once or twice, when all the seats were taken and i was sitting on the floor or on my skateboard, i have been asked to stand, but never to leave or to stop reading the book.
posted by 256 at 10:46 PM on October 4

This is behaviour I have only seen in the US, FWIW.

I find it rude. Piles of books and magazines all over, what a mess. I shudder to think how much this adds to returned/destroyed merchandise, that's wasteful.

I find this rude not only because the items are damaged, but because this means if I actually do want to sit and have a read of whatever I've just bought and a coffee, there's often nowhere left to sit!

Another reason why I book shop independent or online when I'm in the US.
posted by wingless_angel at 3:48 AM on October 5

As we see from the responses here, the answer can vary from bookstore to bookstore. Why not ask the staff at your particular bookstore and see what they say? If it's OK to do, then it should be OK to do openly with the staff fully aware of what you're doing.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:43 AM on October 5

I really don't understand the 'rude' comments. I love books, bookstores, and shopping. Typically as I walk through a bookstore 10 - 20 titles will interest me. If the bookstore has provided a comfortable spot for me to sit and look through these books, I might end up buying some of them. If there is no comfortable spot to look through the books, I will only be buying something I specifically came in for. If the cafe is inside the bookstore, it has been created as the comfortable spot to sit and look through books. The cafe is clearly not making money. (As others have said, it is a loss leader.) Perhaps the folks who see this behavior as rude have a very different shopping pattern. Do you try on clothes before you buy them? Reading a chapter or checking out the introduction are ways to 'try on' books before you buy them.
posted by hworth at 10:58 AM on October 5

Can someone who knows more about the economy of chain bookstores talk about the idea that the cafe is a loss leader? I'm definitely no expert, but I would think that four-dollar cups of coffee are, y'know, profitable. Is it just that having a cafe is not as profitable as dedicating that floor space to additional copies of The Lost Symbol?
posted by box at 11:14 AM on October 5

box, look at the blog I mentioned. He's a manager, and he indicates that the foodstuff is not a loss leader, but in fact provides hefty profit margins. Here is one of his articles about it (scroll down to Alternative Profit Centers, and Coffee); he links to this detailed information about markup/margins.

Note that doesn't mean he's in love with the folks who camp out at the store all day.

His blog was also the subject of this Metafilter post. He joined so that he could respond, but that's been his only comment. His Mefi mail is turned on, though, and he might enjoy knowing that this discussion is being had, and might have more insight to give the poster.
posted by Houstonian at 11:40 AM on October 5 [1 favorite has favorites]