Cultural appropriation or 70's pop culture?
September 26, 2009 5:46 PM Subscribe
Sensitive question about cultural issues and a halloween costume I might wear. Is this cultural appropriation or 1970's pop culture?
Me (a white person) along with some other people want to dress up for halloween as "The Village People." I have been chosen to be the native american one. Is this a bad idea.
Also, when going to parties and such dressed in this costume, I would be with one other "village person" at all times, and we will probably be hamming in up by drunkenly singing "YMCA" and "In the Navy" if that makes a difference either way.
Would it be okay since I am dressing up as a village person, not a native american, or is it still too problematic to do?
Perspectives, especially if there are any Native American readers of this question who would be willing to answer, are greatly appreciated.
If anybody doesn't want to post their reply here, I will be reading replies sent to me at metafilteranon@live.com
Me (a white person) along with some other people want to dress up for halloween as "The Village People." I have been chosen to be the native american one. Is this a bad idea.
Also, when going to parties and such dressed in this costume, I would be with one other "village person" at all times, and we will probably be hamming in up by drunkenly singing "YMCA" and "In the Navy" if that makes a difference either way.
Would it be okay since I am dressing up as a village person, not a native american, or is it still too problematic to do?
Perspectives, especially if there are any Native American readers of this question who would be willing to answer, are greatly appreciated.
If anybody doesn't want to post their reply here, I will be reading replies sent to me at metafilteranon@live.com
I don't think it's in the same league as blackface. The Village People costumes have been done three million times before, and I've never heard a complaint about "the Indian Chief guy" in particular, so I wouldn't worry about it at all.
I believe you're right that it's the context of the 70's kitsch that makes it "okay". Dressing up as a dime-store Tonto and going out solo, on the other hand, probably wouldn't be so great.
posted by rokusan at 5:59 PM on September 26, 2009
I believe you're right that it's the context of the 70's kitsch that makes it "okay". Dressing up as a dime-store Tonto and going out solo, on the other hand, probably wouldn't be so great.
posted by rokusan at 5:59 PM on September 26, 2009
The actual "Indian Chief" in the Village People was part Native American, which might be why nobody ever makes a big deal out of it--never mind that the whole costume persona thing was a sendup of masculine stereotypes.
posted by padraigin at 6:03 PM on September 26, 2009
posted by padraigin at 6:03 PM on September 26, 2009
Like the PinkSuperHero said in the previous post....if you're deep-down OK with it why post anonymously?
If it was poor taste for the Village People to appropriate it (and in my opinion it was), it's probably poor taste to perpetuate it. I think you sound like a sensitive person who recognizes that not only might you offend someone, you might wind up feeling nothing but silly and awkward.
posted by motsque at 6:07 PM on September 26, 2009
If it was poor taste for the Village People to appropriate it (and in my opinion it was), it's probably poor taste to perpetuate it. I think you sound like a sensitive person who recognizes that not only might you offend someone, you might wind up feeling nothing but silly and awkward.
posted by motsque at 6:07 PM on September 26, 2009
Get over it, It's the Village People already! Enjoy yourself.
posted by patnok at 6:16 PM on September 26, 2009
posted by patnok at 6:16 PM on September 26, 2009
Dress up as a plate of beans instead.
posted by fire&wings at 6:23 PM on September 26, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by fire&wings at 6:23 PM on September 26, 2009 [2 favorites]
If you put on, uh, 'tan-face' and ran around threatening to scalp people in your best Geronimo voice, yeah, that's be racist. But dressing up like an indian- especially the Village Person- should be fine.
posted by GilloD at 6:34 PM on September 26, 2009
posted by GilloD at 6:34 PM on September 26, 2009
I think it sets you up for a miserable Halloween. That's not what you want, right?
Yes, some people will be offended. You'll spend time worrying what percentage is offended, and what percentage you are OK with offending.
Some people will think you're dressed up as a mascot for a sports team -- utterly, indefensibly offensive, and you'll have to spend time explaining that's not what you are doing.
Other people will ask you to make the "How" greeting with your one hand up, and others will want that ever-popular "woo woo woo" of a "war whoop." So you'll have to figure out where you want to draw the line with those things.
Then, you can get called a "redskin" -- just as horrible as "yellow skin" or whatever, except those aren't phrases you hear. Will that be ok?
Ah, but you'll be singing, constantly I hope. So then you've got the whole "gay male stereotype" thing that was the point of the Village People.
Isn't there any other costume your group can come up with, that won't require you to defend your intentions the whole time?
posted by Houstonian at 6:41 PM on September 26, 2009 [4 favorites]
Yes, some people will be offended. You'll spend time worrying what percentage is offended, and what percentage you are OK with offending.
Some people will think you're dressed up as a mascot for a sports team -- utterly, indefensibly offensive, and you'll have to spend time explaining that's not what you are doing.
Other people will ask you to make the "How" greeting with your one hand up, and others will want that ever-popular "woo woo woo" of a "war whoop." So you'll have to figure out where you want to draw the line with those things.
Then, you can get called a "redskin" -- just as horrible as "yellow skin" or whatever, except those aren't phrases you hear. Will that be ok?
Ah, but you'll be singing, constantly I hope. So then you've got the whole "gay male stereotype" thing that was the point of the Village People.
Isn't there any other costume your group can come up with, that won't require you to defend your intentions the whole time?
posted by Houstonian at 6:41 PM on September 26, 2009 [4 favorites]
If you have to ask, "Will someone think this is racist?" the answer is likely yes. You can decide that you don't care about the opinions of the people who will think badly of you, but it is the case that some people will think badly of you.
posted by decathecting at 8:23 PM on September 26, 2009
posted by decathecting at 8:23 PM on September 26, 2009
It seems like the original guy is really into his Native American heritage, and was apparently celebrating it through his role in the group. He's even won a Native American Music Award (NAMMY) for his later work.
I think if you aren't trying to make fun of the guy, but are just enjoying playing him, you aren't in danger of being insulting to anyone.
On the other hand, The Village People is a kinda worn out costume idea, but you didn't ask that, so I'll just add it here at the bottom in small type.
posted by orme at 8:35 PM on September 26, 2009
I think if you aren't trying to make fun of the guy, but are just enjoying playing him, you aren't in danger of being insulting to anyone.
On the other hand, The Village People is a kinda worn out costume idea, but you didn't ask that, so I'll just add it here at the bottom in small type.
posted by orme at 8:35 PM on September 26, 2009
Geez. There's nothing wrong as dressing up as the Indian member of the Village People. There's nothing wrong dressing up as an Indian, so long as you don't run around hamming it up like some Hollywood stereotype from the 50's, either.
posted by Atreides at 9:00 PM on September 26, 2009
posted by Atreides at 9:00 PM on September 26, 2009
I think that part of the equation is, how comfortable would you be in your costume if, for whatever reason, you got separated from your group? I suppose that you could point at litter and let a single tear run down your face, but it sounds like you might be uncomfortable with this as a stand-alone costume.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:26 PM on September 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:26 PM on September 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you're asking this question, don't do it.
In my personal, non-credientialed opinion, that was kind of a fucked up thing for them to do in the first place, but it was a different era, etc. What Al Jolson did was fine at the time and Al Jolson was a great American artist but I bet you wouldn't go as Al Jolson for Halloween.
I don't want to dis on folks who dress up like the Village People for Halloween, I'm just saying that if you're aware of ways in which that isn't cool, it's probably not the best costume for you. (Maybe you should be a sexy nurse instead!)
posted by smartyboots at 12:32 AM on September 27, 2009
In my personal, non-credientialed opinion, that was kind of a fucked up thing for them to do in the first place, but it was a different era, etc. What Al Jolson did was fine at the time and Al Jolson was a great American artist but I bet you wouldn't go as Al Jolson for Halloween.
I don't want to dis on folks who dress up like the Village People for Halloween, I'm just saying that if you're aware of ways in which that isn't cool, it's probably not the best costume for you. (Maybe you should be a sexy nurse instead!)
posted by smartyboots at 12:32 AM on September 27, 2009
The costume is fine, you won't offend anyone. It's Halloween, not "Should I wear this to work and post a Native American tapestry on the wall?"
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:43 AM on September 27, 2009
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:43 AM on September 27, 2009
Smartyboots, please don't encourage sexy nurses. I have enough male patients who think the sexy nurse stereotype is true and try to touch my boobs. Stop the negative imagery!
I think it depends on where you live. Growing up in Massachusetts, I would have been fine with it as there isn't a super-active or visible Native American population. However, I live in Washington State now, where Native Americans are an integral part of the culture and community (potentially more sensitive than the commercialized Pilgrim/Indian culture found in New England). I would not dress up as a Native American stereotype around here, nor would I if I were to return to New England now having learned more about/worked with actual living Native Americans.
posted by nursegracer at 2:08 AM on September 27, 2009
I think it depends on where you live. Growing up in Massachusetts, I would have been fine with it as there isn't a super-active or visible Native American population. However, I live in Washington State now, where Native Americans are an integral part of the culture and community (potentially more sensitive than the commercialized Pilgrim/Indian culture found in New England). I would not dress up as a Native American stereotype around here, nor would I if I were to return to New England now having learned more about/worked with actual living Native Americans.
posted by nursegracer at 2:08 AM on September 27, 2009
Smartyboots, please don't encourage sexy nurses.
To be fair, I think sexy nurse is a pretty generic description for a lot of Halloween costumes:
sexy nurse
sexy maid
sexy school girl
sexy cop
sexy stoplight
lusty librarian.
A few years ago I dressed as an evergreen. When asked, I was a naughty pine.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:47 AM on September 27, 2009
To be fair, I think sexy nurse is a pretty generic description for a lot of Halloween costumes:
sexy nurse
sexy maid
sexy school girl
sexy cop
sexy stoplight
lusty librarian.
A few years ago I dressed as an evergreen. When asked, I was a naughty pine.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 7:47 AM on September 27, 2009
Háu kola! Tókhiya lá huŋwó? (Hello, Friend! Where are you going?)
Wait... the question isn't, "Will being part of an homage to an over-the-top parody which instigated some of the most pervasive stereotypes the homosexual community has ever suffered under be in some way offensive?", but rather, "Will the Lakota get mad at me being a pale-faced pretender?"
Isn't the point of the entire affair to amuse with the subtext of shock? Flame-On, Felipé!
Táku kȟoyákipȟa he? (What do you fear?)
posted by EnsignLunchmeat at 10:39 AM on September 27, 2009
Wait... the question isn't, "Will being part of an homage to an over-the-top parody which instigated some of the most pervasive stereotypes the homosexual community has ever suffered under be in some way offensive?", but rather, "Will the Lakota get mad at me being a pale-faced pretender?"
Isn't the point of the entire affair to amuse with the subtext of shock? Flame-On, Felipé!
Táku kȟoyákipȟa he? (What do you fear?)
posted by EnsignLunchmeat at 10:39 AM on September 27, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by MrMoonPie at 5:55 PM on September 26, 2009