Not Exactly Mister Rogers

September 10, 2009 12:51 PM

So I just moved into an apartment, and found out that I have a psycho neighbor.

He is not a tenant of the building, but lives in a house next to my apartment. He's accused me of calling the cops on him (he plays his music loud, but I didn't call the cops), and has twice screamed at my guests when all we were doing was talking in normal conversational tones IN MY LIVING ROOM. Literally, screamed - he comes out of his house, bangs on his door and swears and screams at me to shut the fuck up.

He's also rung my doorbell twice at 7 am to tell me that my beeping my car to lock and unlock it wakes him up, and has followed me up the stairs to my house to ask for my remote so he can turn off the beeper because 'he used to sell Toyotas'.

My manager never told me about this problem outright, but when I was over at the office signing the lease, his co-worker made a reference to it... "Oh, you rented THAT apartment."

Is there any legal recourse I have? This is borderline harassment and I fully intend to call the cops the next time anything happens. Can I ask my manager to find me another apartment (the company manages many buildings).

Thanks for your help!

posted by milinar to human relations (32 comments total)

Document Document Document

Keep a log of every instance of Psycho Neighbor's weird behavior--particularly any time he encroaches on yoru personal space or the space you're renting. Call the cops if you feel threatened/there's an issue you don't feel comfortable trying to resolve with your neighbor.
posted by Flipping_Hades_Terwilliger at 12:54 PM on September 10

in fact, start making that log right now.
time, date, etc - all the info you can think of. what color shirt he was wearing, if he had a baseball hat on, who you were with, if any one else witnessed the incident.

that way if it comes to court or lawyers or something your story doesn't change and you don't mix important details about incidents that are all blending together.
posted by sio42 at 12:58 PM on September 10

Of course you can ask the property manager if you can be moved, but I have no idea if he can be compelled to do so. Ask him if he had any idea that this might be an issue. And then ask yourself why his co-worker's comment passed by without any query from you.
posted by inturnaround at 12:59 PM on September 10

Yes, you can ask your manager for anything you like. (You may not get it.) But to be fair, your car should not be making any disturbing noises for no reason.
posted by sageleaf at 1:00 PM on September 10

You might want to set up a webcam to record what he does.
Keep a log.
Talk to the cops.
Get a restraining order.

Make sure you never, ever interact with your neighbor. Don't respond to anything. He doesn't exist.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:01 PM on September 10

Yes, ask for a new place, and say you do not feel safe. Get an order of civil protection from the police. This will make it easier to arrest him for minor violations. Then tell him you have the order, and don't want any more communication from him other than to your lawyer or the police. Oh yeah, and move.
posted by xammerboy at 1:03 PM on September 10

But to be fair, your car should not be making any disturbing noises for no reason.

You know what? When you live in an urban environment, there are going to be sounds that we all have to put up with. Hell, in suburbia we all have to put up with leaf blowers and lawn mowers, so surely the car lock is not a big deal.

One thing we don't have to put up with is harassment. There is no excuse whatsoever for "crazy neighbour's" behaviour. Total derail.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:03 PM on September 10 [14 favorites]

Yes, you can ask the manager to find a different apartment in another building and s/he should bend over to find one for you.

When I moved to my current apartment building, I chose an apartment on the second floor - right above a set of businesses. I didn't know they were there and only found out about their effect on the apartment the morning after I moved in - when the restaurant's cook turned on the radio, full blast, at 5 am, and started cooking Indian curries at 6am.

After four months of documenting the noise and the smells, I asked the landlord if I could move to the fourth floor. Technically, the fourth floor is more expensive but I refused to let him raise my rent. He had the choice of losing me as a tenant b'c of the situation with the businesses or letting me move. I'm now quite happy on the fourth floor.

Go to the local police station and express your concern about this person; establish a relationship with the cops so that they know what they are dealing with if you call them. Basically, you want them to know that you fear this person and that this person has already behaved in a threatening manner (following you up the steps, screaming at you to shut up, etc.? To me, that's threatening behavior). Call the cops whenever he starts behaving badly, even if you have guests.
posted by LOLAttorney2009 at 1:07 PM on September 10

Be nice but firm. Go ahead and send your management company a certified letter detailing the harassment and request that they find you other lodgings. Politely reference the comment you witnessed.

Then follow-up with phone calls to the management office. ABSOLUTELY call the police each and every time this creep comes near you. Keep a record of the 911 calls and note whatever action is taken by the police. Do this to document the issue for your landlord, NOT because you need to be interacting with this creep. Nothing you can do will make him stop, btw. You just need to CYA.

Here's the thing: this neighbor is well-known to your management company and the local police - the situation you recently found yourself in has been going on for a long long time.

If your management company declines to find you a new place to live... I would withhold rent (to make up for the deposit the landlord is sure to keep, plus moving costs, etc.) and I would move. I would not notify my landlord of my plans. I would mail back the keys with a letter of explanation (return receipt, of course!) after I moved

Life is too short. The management company is not your friend in this. Move out & move on.
posted by jbenben at 1:09 PM on September 10

Ok, so I just got off the phone with the manager. Apparently, this guy had called him first and complained, and my manager wanted to know 'both sides of the story'. The thing is, my manager needs to remember that *I* am the one paying him rent, and not my neighbor. My manager had the audacity to remind me that there were rules about noise after certain hours - and I in turn told him that to have a normal conversation on my patio after ten at night is NOT a violation of the rules.

Ugh. This is going to be a mess.
posted by milinar at 1:13 PM on September 10

this will sound like a dick move, but maybe you should start communicating with the building manager only in writing.

and maybe you should look for another place to live.

the documentation might help you get back any penalities for breaking a lease, but breaking a lease and eating some cash might be better in the long run than dealing with a crazy person and a crazy mgr.

it will only make YOU crazy.
posted by sio42 at 1:20 PM on September 10 [4 favorites]

Just to quickly clarify...

Certified mail to the landlord/management office to create a paper trail and show them you mean business. Only bother with follow-up phone calls to their office for about a week. Expect they will placate you and drag things out. If they don't immediately offer you new housing.... you know where this is heading.

This is an ongoing problem for the owner and management company. Before renting to you and putting another tenant in harm's way, they should have sorted this out. I have no sympathy for these folks, and neither should you.
posted by jbenben at 1:22 PM on September 10 [1 favorite]

I'm not a lawyer, etc., but most areas have a landlord-tenant ordinance that includes some language about you being able to expect reasonable quiet enjoyment of the premises. It may even be on your lease. You neighbor is obviously preventing you from doing so. Thorough documentation on your part should give you some leverage if you ask you landlord to offer you another unit, or break the lease entirely.

Your profile says Santa Monica, where there's a tenants' rights group. Talk to them, especially before you start withholding rent.
posted by hydrophonic at 1:23 PM on September 10

I should specify that I'm asking this for a friend and she lives in culver city.
posted by milinar at 1:24 PM on September 10

I would mention that allowing you to move to another apartment in the building or to another building would solve both your problem and Crazy Dude's "problem".
posted by muddgirl at 1:26 PM on September 10

My manager had the audacity to remind me that there were rules about noise after certain hours - and I in turn told him that to have a normal conversation on my patio after ten at night is NOT a violation of the rules.

Not to justify his coming out and yelling at you, but you initially said that he freaked when you were talking to someone in your living room, not patio. He might be an oversensitive twat, but I've lived in places where neighbors having what they thought were conversations at normal volumes sounded incredibly loud in my bedroom.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 1:27 PM on September 10 [2 favorites]

to have a normal conversation on my patio after ten at night is NOT a violation of the rules.

Well maybe there's no explicit rule against it, but your patio is not your living room (it looks like your story has changed, hasn't it?) and is presumably outdoors. Ten at night is late enough that a significant portion of the population is trying to sleep. At the very least, I think it's pretty impolite to be talking on your patio at 10 p.m., even if you're not shouting, especially if you've been asked not to. Why can't you move the conversation inside?
posted by notswedish at 1:29 PM on September 10 [9 favorites]

Sounds like your friend in Culver City should start conserving her resources and should also start prioritizing.

Instead of encouraging the runaround with the incompetent management company, she should just look for a new place to live. That's going to take all of her energy.

She should also research on under what terms she can break her lease.
posted by KokuRyu at 1:29 PM on September 10

Call the cops. We have a neighbor like that, and one visit from the cops put an end to his harassment. He wasn't charged with anything (and honestly didn't really break any laws), but he got the message that we weren't going to put up with his crap. That was two or three years ago, and we haven't heard a peep.
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:30 PM on September 10

Just read your follow-up, sadly, it sounds just as I suspected.

Please don't believe for a second they don't know the guy next door to you is a nut-job. I promise they've lost tenants because of this guy before.

After you send that certified letter detailing the harassment and requesting a new residence... go ahead and check with your local tenants' rights association. It would be nice if you could legally break your lease AND get your deposit back.

Also visit your local police station. They should have some sort of community liason officer for your district - this person is certain to know about your neighbor. Maybe get the backstory on this issue, especially any dealings with your owner/management company. Having confirmation this is an ongoing issue in the neighborhood may help you break your lease and get your deposit back.

Good Luck.
posted by jbenben at 1:31 PM on September 10

Oh. Culver City!

LAPD Senior Lead Officer
Juan Ceja
[phone] (cell).
[phone] (o).
Hours: M-Th., 5:30am to 4pm

It is best to leave a message on his cell phone. He helped us with our neighbor problem in that area about a year ago.
posted by jbenben at 1:36 PM on September 10

Thanks jbenben and everyone. Helpful advice.
posted by milinar at 1:36 PM on September 10

Hey - you & your friend are super welcome!

Just one more thing... noise carries, especially at night when everything else is relatively quiet. Now that I know what neighborhood you are referencing, I have good idea what the proximity, architecture, and acoustics might be like. Oh, the joys of Los Angeles living! It's not cool that your friend's neighbor is a nut-job, but your friend's expectations regarding the use of her outdoor space is a little "off" as well. If you want good neighbors -- well, you have to be one, too.

I hope the moving-out happens swiftly. And I hope your friend takes her lifestyle into account when she choses her next apartment. She should try for a top floor, and avoid apartments with adjacent dwellings or any wall/structure that increases echoes.

(I'm thinking of the outer-facing units in the high-rise building on Overland, top of the hill about halfway between the 10 FWY and Palms Blvd, as the perfect example of an appropriate apartment...)
posted by jbenben at 2:05 PM on September 10

You live next to a nut-job and should document, document, document.

However, talking on a patio at 10pm can be incredibly disruptive if you're in close quarters with other people. During the summer, when windows are open, sound travels. We have neighbors who work different hours than we do and they think nothing of having a couple of beers on their patio at 930pm while they are cooking dinner on the grill; we wake up at at 6am for work and are usually hitting the sack around this time. Even talking in normal voices, we can hear what they're saying like they're in our bedroom. We discussed this with the landlord, and there is indeed specific language about this in the lease which indicates that no noise shall be emitted from the living area (which includes the inside of one's apartment, one's patio, and common areas) that can be heard within other apartments after 9pm on weekdays.

Further, many of our neighbors have the little "beepbeep" horn thing on their cars when they unlock. Again, it's just a little noise, but when people get home late at night or leave early in the morning, that little beep-beep is loud enough/distinct enough to wake people up. I live in an urban environment and am used to passing buses, cars, etc., but the honk of a car horn stands out just enough from the normal noises that it usually wakes me up.

I sleep with ear plugs these days and neither of these things bother me now, but just saying, crazy or not, this guy may have a point or two.
posted by proj at 2:14 PM on September 10 [1 favorite]

There's a little bit more to the story that speaks to his state of mind. Take my word for it. She's only lived there a week or two, the guy is simply batshit insane.

But yeah, I also live in a close-quarters urban situation and have had to knock on neighbor's doors late at night because they didn't realize how loud they were being. That's life in the big city. Nothing justifies that kind of harassment...
posted by milinar at 2:25 PM on September 10 [1 favorite]

Oh, Culver City. How I do not miss you.

Sounds like you are taking the appropriate steps to deal with this guy. That said, I agree with the others. You really shouldn't be hanging out with your buddies on your outdoor patio after 10:00pm on a week night. Friday/Saturday, sure, but honestly having lived in an apartment in Culver City for a whole bunch of years, sounds carries extremely well in this kind of concrete jungle. Your conversation probably sounds, to him, like it's coming from directly outside his window. You probably don't realize how loud it is.

None of which excuses crazy behaviour on his part. Just confirming what others have said. If you want him to be a good neighbor, you probably should err on the side of being an overly good neighbor yourself and restrict outdoor conversations to before 10:00pm on weeknights.
posted by Justinian at 2:35 PM on September 10 [1 favorite]

Friend confirms that she mis-spoke. The actual conversation was taking place in her living room with the window open and it was well before 10pm. We'll go talk to the fuzz ASAP, and she's gonna start looking to move.
posted by milinar at 2:49 PM on September 10

If you're that sensitive to a car horn beep when the alarm is set, run a fan for background noise. I used to routinely come home after 1am and none of my neighbors could even hear me set my alarm.

Running a fan for background noise solved my getting woken up by my neighbor kid's 1970s truck that was as loud as a garbage truck.
posted by IndigoRain at 4:38 PM on September 10

I think she should just move, but there are also really specific noise rules for the city of Los Angeles and Culver City, and you should look those up on the web so you are familiar with the guidelines. People can get sued in small claims court or get the Noise Enforcement Team on them if your neighbors or landlord chooses to make an issue of the noise, and some of the stuff you describe could fall outside the guidelines.
posted by effluvia at 7:02 PM on September 10

If you're that sensitive to a car horn beep when the alarm is set, run a fan for background noise. I used to routinely come home after 1am and none of my neighbors could even hear me set my alarm.

Garbage trucks are loud and annoying, but that's because they're garbage trucks and they have to be. Automobile security alarm systems that use loud beeps to indicate when they're armed or disarmed do not have to exist, ought not to exist, and where they do exist should be turned off right now forever, and if they can't be turned off they should be destroyed with a sledgehammer.

I'm with Psycho on this one. At least to the extent of suggesting that your friend turn off the fucking car alarm and eliminate that source of neighborly reaction -- the better to concentrate on whatever's left.
posted by gum at 7:48 AM on September 11 [1 favorite]

Restraining order ASAP.
posted by Jacqueline at 10:14 PM on September 11

...there are going to be sounds that we all have to put up with...Total derail.

No, it's really not. The car noise is a known trigger of the so-called psycho neighbor. The questioner should be taking all available opportunities to mitigate the nonsense of the neighbor, and if that includes turning off her beep or honk or chirp or Debussy rhapsody or whatever noise that it makes that is loud enough to disturb at least one neighbor. We'd all have less to "put up with" if we didn't make unnecessary noised for others, no matter how unpleasant they may be, since, at least in this case, it creates a known retaliative response.

One thing we don't have to put up with is harassment

Which is probably what the neighbor thinks too. But all we have here is the third-party, one-sided, mis-spoken account of the incidents. In order to be as clear as I possibly can: Everybody involved should make less noise.
posted by sageleaf at 12:35 PM on September 19 [1 favorite]