When does occasional contact from a former colleague turn into stalking?
August 11, 2009 2:36 PM
When does occasional contact from a former colleague turn into stalking? What is the best way to handle unwanted communication from a person for whom rejection may cause real emotional hardship?
My fiancee gets occasional phone calls/emails (every few months) from a former colleague. This person is an older man who she had infrequent contact with through a regular volunteer activity. He appeared to be somewhat lonely and eccentric, and as is her nature she made an effort to be friendly. Their interaction was almost exclusively limited to conversations at the events, although they did go for coffee a few times outside. Nothing inappropriate ever happened, just conversation. After a while she felt a little bit uncomfortable with that level of relationship so she made an effort to cut things off.
Apparently they exchanged contact info (email/phone) when setting these meetings up, and he began to call/email occasionally, maybe every couple of months, even with no response back from her, and even after the volunteer program ended over a year ago. The messages he leaves are somewhat disturbing, although not in an overtly threatening way. He will talk about how he's really lonely, in therapy, really depressed, how he doesn't have any friends, etc. Again, these are messages that she has been getting every couple of months, even with no response back to him.
I've never met this guy, but according to her he is a little bit 'off' but totally harmless - legally blind, older (maybe 60s, for reference we are around 30), doesn't know where she/we live, etc. She has a tendency to be very nonconfrontational and so has never told the guy to just buzz off - she is afraid it might make his depression worse or push him over some edge, and so she's generally chosen to just 'let it go'.
Needless to say, this really freaks me out - every time she gets a message it is very upsetting. A few months will go by with no contact, but then out of the blue some new weird email will show up and remind us of this. Based on the limit of their previous interactions, the stuff he sends would be considered way over the line by anyone with a normal sense of human relations or social norms (which he obviously is not).
We have tried to look at this from a compassionate point of view - it seems like maybe he has some real issues and finds some meaning in having a psuedo-'relationship' with her by leaving these messages or sending emails. And it does seem like he might be harmless... but, still it makes me uncomfortable. Perhaps it seems insensitive or cruel to be reacting like this to someone who obviously has problems. Still, it's creepy, and I don't like it. The question is, what should we do? Should we or I just call or send this guy an email, telling him (in as nice a way as possible) that it is inappropriate for an older man to be repeatedly sending these kinds of messages to a younger woman like this? Should we be concerned about the risks that it might cause him to ramp up his contact by responding somehow legitimizing his efforts? Change her phone number and email? Just continue to ignore it? Thanks for any advice.
My fiancee gets occasional phone calls/emails (every few months) from a former colleague. This person is an older man who she had infrequent contact with through a regular volunteer activity. He appeared to be somewhat lonely and eccentric, and as is her nature she made an effort to be friendly. Their interaction was almost exclusively limited to conversations at the events, although they did go for coffee a few times outside. Nothing inappropriate ever happened, just conversation. After a while she felt a little bit uncomfortable with that level of relationship so she made an effort to cut things off.
Apparently they exchanged contact info (email/phone) when setting these meetings up, and he began to call/email occasionally, maybe every couple of months, even with no response back from her, and even after the volunteer program ended over a year ago. The messages he leaves are somewhat disturbing, although not in an overtly threatening way. He will talk about how he's really lonely, in therapy, really depressed, how he doesn't have any friends, etc. Again, these are messages that she has been getting every couple of months, even with no response back to him.
I've never met this guy, but according to her he is a little bit 'off' but totally harmless - legally blind, older (maybe 60s, for reference we are around 30), doesn't know where she/we live, etc. She has a tendency to be very nonconfrontational and so has never told the guy to just buzz off - she is afraid it might make his depression worse or push him over some edge, and so she's generally chosen to just 'let it go'.
Needless to say, this really freaks me out - every time she gets a message it is very upsetting. A few months will go by with no contact, but then out of the blue some new weird email will show up and remind us of this. Based on the limit of their previous interactions, the stuff he sends would be considered way over the line by anyone with a normal sense of human relations or social norms (which he obviously is not).
We have tried to look at this from a compassionate point of view - it seems like maybe he has some real issues and finds some meaning in having a psuedo-'relationship' with her by leaving these messages or sending emails. And it does seem like he might be harmless... but, still it makes me uncomfortable. Perhaps it seems insensitive or cruel to be reacting like this to someone who obviously has problems. Still, it's creepy, and I don't like it. The question is, what should we do? Should we or I just call or send this guy an email, telling him (in as nice a way as possible) that it is inappropriate for an older man to be repeatedly sending these kinds of messages to a younger woman like this? Should we be concerned about the risks that it might cause him to ramp up his contact by responding somehow legitimizing his efforts? Change her phone number and email? Just continue to ignore it? Thanks for any advice.
Does your fiancee find him as off-putting as you do? Without knowing more, I feel like you're more disturbed by this than she is. If there's some convenient place, you can go with your fiancee and meet him in person. Maybe seeing her with you will tone down the "creepy old man" sort of things from him, and you and your fiancee could be some part of bettering his life through conversation. There'd be no reason to disclose where you live, address or city-wise, assuming you know where he lives.
Or you could try writing him yourself, and engage him from a distance. Clarify that you're the man in your fiancee's life, and you could comment on the things that you two are doing as a couple. Not to gloat or show off, but to subtly clarify that you are a couple (if that needs to be emphasized). Maybe having two people to write to instead of just one will make him happier.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:52 PM on August 11, 2009
Or you could try writing him yourself, and engage him from a distance. Clarify that you're the man in your fiancee's life, and you could comment on the things that you two are doing as a couple. Not to gloat or show off, but to subtly clarify that you are a couple (if that needs to be emphasized). Maybe having two people to write to instead of just one will make him happier.
posted by filthy light thief at 2:52 PM on August 11, 2009
this really freaks me out - every time she gets a message it is very upsetting
Why? He's a sad and lonely man trying to reach out. He's not threatening you. Just ignore him.
posted by CunningLinguist at 3:13 PM on August 11, 2009
Why? He's a sad and lonely man trying to reach out. He's not threatening you. Just ignore him.
posted by CunningLinguist at 3:13 PM on August 11, 2009
Needless to say, this really freaks me out
First off this seems like her situation to handle, unless she has asked you to deal with it for her.
Second the lowest-effort, lowest-impact way to deal with it is just to keep on ignoring him.
Third, if I were you I would look at why this was freaking me out so much, and focus on managing my own emotions rather than my gf's business.
posted by ottereroticist at 3:15 PM on August 11, 2009
First off this seems like her situation to handle, unless she has asked you to deal with it for her.
Second the lowest-effort, lowest-impact way to deal with it is just to keep on ignoring him.
Third, if I were you I would look at why this was freaking me out so much, and focus on managing my own emotions rather than my gf's business.
posted by ottereroticist at 3:15 PM on August 11, 2009
I would be concerned that confronting this guy would just become another chapter in whatever story this guy is telling himself about his relationship with your fiance, and lead to further unwanted attempts at interaction. If he doesn't know where you guys live, then it's probably best to ignore him.
What program or service does she use for e-mail? I would see about marking his address as spam or junk so that the stuff he sends just gets dropped into the slushpile, unseen. As for the phone calls - is this to her cell number? Her home number? Far as I know, it's not possible to block a single caller, so while it's a pain in the ass, she's probably better off just changing her number. Cut off his avenues of contact and get on with your lives. The number-change thing'll be a hassle, but were I in your position, I would prefer it to thew hassle of trying to modify this guy's behavior.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:16 PM on August 11, 2009
What program or service does she use for e-mail? I would see about marking his address as spam or junk so that the stuff he sends just gets dropped into the slushpile, unseen. As for the phone calls - is this to her cell number? Her home number? Far as I know, it's not possible to block a single caller, so while it's a pain in the ass, she's probably better off just changing her number. Cut off his avenues of contact and get on with your lives. The number-change thing'll be a hassle, but were I in your position, I would prefer it to thew hassle of trying to modify this guy's behavior.
posted by EatTheWeek at 3:16 PM on August 11, 2009
As there is no harm being done, have you tried workin on your discomfort? Just like we have to stand up and give the elderly and disabled our seat, it's good to give them other forms of tolerance, too.
posted by By The Grace of God at 3:21 PM on August 11, 2009
posted by By The Grace of God at 3:21 PM on August 11, 2009
Your wife should tell the guy how she's really busy these days and just take longer and longer to reply. Be honest, but don't be prompt. Wean 'im.
From what you've described, this is not even close to stalking. This is an actual mini-friendship that your fiance started and now has to cool off normally. The semantics of "interaction was almost exclusively limited to conversations at the events, although they did go for coffee a few times outside" are pretty tortured.
posted by fleacircus at 3:23 PM on August 11, 2009
From what you've described, this is not even close to stalking. This is an actual mini-friendship that your fiance started and now has to cool off normally. The semantics of "interaction was almost exclusively limited to conversations at the events, although they did go for coffee a few times outside" are pretty tortured.
posted by fleacircus at 3:23 PM on August 11, 2009
Let me suggest a noble path for your fiancee to walk - treat this man like a human being and show him some compassion. An occasional "How are you?" with little snippets about her own life would probably make this guy feel much better about himself and might encourage him to start looking for other friendships as well.
posted by satori_movement at 3:38 PM on August 11, 2009
posted by satori_movement at 3:38 PM on August 11, 2009
I don't get the connection between this:
He will talk about how he's really lonely, in therapy, really depressed, how he doesn't have any friends, etc.
and this:
the stuff he sends would be considered way over the line by anyone with a normal sense of human relations or social norms
it is inappropriate for an older man to be repeatedly sending these kinds of messages to a younger woman like this
Is there more to these messages that you didn't mention? Unless there is, I don't see the problem. This guy might be a Too Much Information type, but it's still kind of pushing it to call this stalking if your fiancee has never asked him to stop. Sounds like he's a lonely guy who's wondering why his friend stopped talking to him. And this "younger woman" thing is totally baffling--you guys are around 30, right?
Your reaction to this guy is the reaction one might expect if a creepy guy was hitting on your fiancee. But your description of this guy's actions is the description of a lonely old man who misses his friend and probably isn't totally with the social-interaction program. Your description does not match your reaction. Either you left some important stuff out of the description, or your reaction is inappropriate.
If you left some stuff out and the guy's actually a legitimate stalker, then here are a couple other AskMes with stalker advice. If you're overreacting and he's just a sad lonely guy, then you shouldn't do anything; if your fiancee definitely doesn't want to be friends with him anymore, she should probably continue to ignore him or change her number.
posted by equalpants at 4:11 PM on August 11, 2009
He will talk about how he's really lonely, in therapy, really depressed, how he doesn't have any friends, etc.
and this:
the stuff he sends would be considered way over the line by anyone with a normal sense of human relations or social norms
it is inappropriate for an older man to be repeatedly sending these kinds of messages to a younger woman like this
Is there more to these messages that you didn't mention? Unless there is, I don't see the problem. This guy might be a Too Much Information type, but it's still kind of pushing it to call this stalking if your fiancee has never asked him to stop. Sounds like he's a lonely guy who's wondering why his friend stopped talking to him. And this "younger woman" thing is totally baffling--you guys are around 30, right?
Your reaction to this guy is the reaction one might expect if a creepy guy was hitting on your fiancee. But your description of this guy's actions is the description of a lonely old man who misses his friend and probably isn't totally with the social-interaction program. Your description does not match your reaction. Either you left some important stuff out of the description, or your reaction is inappropriate.
If you left some stuff out and the guy's actually a legitimate stalker, then here are a couple other AskMes with stalker advice. If you're overreacting and he's just a sad lonely guy, then you shouldn't do anything; if your fiancee definitely doesn't want to be friends with him anymore, she should probably continue to ignore him or change her number.
posted by equalpants at 4:11 PM on August 11, 2009
You pretty much have to explicitly communicate that you want someone to stop doing something if you expect them to, you know, stop. People tend not to take hints - particularly people who aren't super socially aware to begin with.
That said, I'm with equalpants - I can't quite figure out what's wrong with the messages, from your description. Are they sexually explicit? Are they threatening? Are they indicative of potential harm to the sender or someone else? Or is the simple fact that this guy she doesn't know very well emails her periodically creeping you out? Because there's a big difference in the appropriate responses to those different cases.
I don't think *you* should do anything (except maybe message the mods with more clarification.) Any communication with this guy should come from your girlfriend, and if she (not you, *she*) really wants him to stop, it should be a simple "Please don't contact me anymore." After that, just ignore him. Unless, of course, there's potential danger, in which case various authorities should probably be involved.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:32 PM on August 11, 2009
That said, I'm with equalpants - I can't quite figure out what's wrong with the messages, from your description. Are they sexually explicit? Are they threatening? Are they indicative of potential harm to the sender or someone else? Or is the simple fact that this guy she doesn't know very well emails her periodically creeping you out? Because there's a big difference in the appropriate responses to those different cases.
I don't think *you* should do anything (except maybe message the mods with more clarification.) Any communication with this guy should come from your girlfriend, and if she (not you, *she*) really wants him to stop, it should be a simple "Please don't contact me anymore." After that, just ignore him. Unless, of course, there's potential danger, in which case various authorities should probably be involved.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:32 PM on August 11, 2009
Have you tried attempting to describe a cathedral to him? Sorry, don't mean to be snide, though this is particularly on the nose parallel to the Raymond Carver story.
But yeah, I nth everybody --- if this all the guy is doing is leaving messages every two months that are all, woe is me, I'm so lonely, but doesn't know where you live and does not seem to be fishing for more contact or otherwise hitting on your fiance, then he seems pretty harmless. Slightly creepy, maybe, but your fiance would be well within her rights to decide that she'd rather endure the slight creepiness than cut him off in a way that might hurt his feelings. If these messages he's leaving are sexual/hitting on her/hinting at a desire to seek greater contact with her, well then, yeah, he might be traipsing into stalker territory. But it's not clear from your question which is which. Also, does he know that she's engaged?
posted by Diablevert at 5:12 PM on August 11, 2009
But yeah, I nth everybody --- if this all the guy is doing is leaving messages every two months that are all, woe is me, I'm so lonely, but doesn't know where you live and does not seem to be fishing for more contact or otherwise hitting on your fiance, then he seems pretty harmless. Slightly creepy, maybe, but your fiance would be well within her rights to decide that she'd rather endure the slight creepiness than cut him off in a way that might hurt his feelings. If these messages he's leaving are sexual/hitting on her/hinting at a desire to seek greater contact with her, well then, yeah, he might be traipsing into stalker territory. But it's not clear from your question which is which. Also, does he know that she's engaged?
posted by Diablevert at 5:12 PM on August 11, 2009
Ignore, ignore, ignore.
As Mefi's favorite book The Gift of Fear states, if he calls or e-mails 20 times and then she finally answers, he learns that it takes 20 attempts to get a response, and next time he will try 40 or 60 times.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:03 PM on August 11, 2009
As Mefi's favorite book The Gift of Fear states, if he calls or e-mails 20 times and then she finally answers, he learns that it takes 20 attempts to get a response, and next time he will try 40 or 60 times.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:03 PM on August 11, 2009
Have you tried attempting to describe a cathedral to him? Sorry, don't mean to be snide, though this is particularly on the nose parallel to the Raymond Carver story.
Just for completeness' sake: Cathedral by Raymond Carver
posted by ludwig_van at 10:20 PM on August 11, 2009
Just for completeness' sake: Cathedral by Raymond Carver
posted by ludwig_van at 10:20 PM on August 11, 2009
I'm surprised you haven't tried honest communication as a compassionate solution to this problem. He doesn't sound like a stalker to me, just a guy who hasn't picked up on the clue that she's ignoring him in hopes that he'll stop contacting her. Why can't she just tell him? A quick email could resolve this completely, and it doesn't have to be mean or harsh. Maybe something like this:
Person'sName,
I really enjoyed the time we spent together planning Event for VolunteerActivity. My life since VolunteerActivity has grown increasingly busy, including a new fiance! I've gotten your emails and phone messages keeping me updated on your life -- you are a kind and thoughtful person to think of me and keep in contact with me.
At this time, I'm not able to return this in kind, and additionally my fiance worries that your calls and emails mean more than just an occasional "touching base." So although I appreciate the effort you've put forth to maintain contact, at this point I have to ask that it stop.
I will always remember you as a truly dedicated volunteer for VolunteerActivity, and wish you the best in your future endeavors.
Fiancee'sName
posted by Houstonian at 5:59 AM on August 12, 2009
I really enjoyed the time we spent together planning Event for VolunteerActivity. My life since VolunteerActivity has grown increasingly busy, including a new fiance! I've gotten your emails and phone messages keeping me updated on your life -- you are a kind and thoughtful person to think of me and keep in contact with me.
At this time, I'm not able to return this in kind, and additionally my fiance worries that your calls and emails mean more than just an occasional "touching base." So although I appreciate the effort you've put forth to maintain contact, at this point I have to ask that it stop.
I will always remember you as a truly dedicated volunteer for VolunteerActivity, and wish you the best in your future endeavors.
Fiancee'sName
posted by Houstonian at 5:59 AM on August 12, 2009
At this time, I'm not able to return this in kind, and additionally my fiance worries that your calls and emails mean more than just an occasional "touching base." So although I appreciate the effort you've put forth to maintain contact, at this point I have to ask that it stop.
This makes the situation seem more one-sided. "He think's you're creepy, but I don't (completely) agree" is what I get from that. Leave out that bit, and it could be fine.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:45 AM on August 12, 2009
This makes the situation seem more one-sided. "He think's you're creepy, but I don't (completely) agree" is what I get from that. Leave out that bit, and it could be fine.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:45 AM on August 12, 2009
She can probably set up an email filter that auto-deletes his messages without her ever seeing them.
posted by Jacqueline at 6:12 PM on August 12, 2009
posted by Jacqueline at 6:12 PM on August 12, 2009
Another vote for either blocking his email address and phone number OR send him a nice, yet dismissing note similar to what Houstonian wrote. Or hey, do both of those things.
posted by deborah at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2009
posted by deborah at 8:43 PM on August 13, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by katillathehun at 2:44 PM on August 11, 2009