"Everybody's making love or else expecting rain"
June 30, 2009 7:59 AM Subscribe
So... I think I might have ruined a perfectly good opportunity for my first one night stand last night. Please tell me what I did wrong, ye denizens of yon AskMetafilterland. Too much detail because I do not know where my mistake lies and I want to give the exact nature of what went down. I apologize for the 'Penthouse letters' tone of the description.
So, I was at my regular bar just like any other Monday. I walk in, and notice that someone is sitting at my usual stool at the bar. I pay it no mind and sit a few chairs next. After a drink and a brief chat with the bartender, I notice that said adjacent occupant is eyeing me. She moves a stool or so closer to me and asks "So, do you know [Bartender's name]?"
So we chatted briefly about the bartender and the establishment and other sundry topics of mutual interest. There was a sense I got from her interaction that she was about to leave when I arrived at the bar, and that she was just hanging around to talk to me at that precise moment. This might have been cleverly plotted through certain words being overused or it might just be in my head. We play trivia and she says she is only going to stick around for this one round. But she stays till the end. We lose gloriously.
There was a point in our conversation when the landscape of what was entailed changed from "just some people talking at a bar" to "possibility of a hookup". It was so darn subtle, that my mind sober from this morning's crisp air and a tall coffee cannot fathom it, so my inebriated self last night was far beyond trying to understand what was going on. She led and I followed.
Anyway, "One more drink and I'll leave you be" turned into "I don't think I can drive home, I think I'll crash at the nearest hotel?"
Now, we had been talking extensively about how I lived across the street from the bar. And how I was known to stumble home after many a drinking session. So, I say "Nonsense, you're crashing with me" And to my surprise, she says yes and we leave the bar before closing time.
We go back to my place, she puts Semisonic on. (she liked Semisonic, for some reason) Streaming from somewhere. We talk and jam for a while. Subsequently, she lies on the bed and says "When are you going to kiss me" or something of that nature.
Here, I must mention that I am very sheepish about these things in general. And to have a half-naked, absolutely divine female lying in my bed asking me to kiss her was really too much for me to handle.
So, I lean down and kiss her. Even then, I had no notion of what protocols I was supposed to follow. Do I presume that this is a hookup and lie down in the bed, or should I go to the spare room?
Anyway, like I said, she led and I followed. She asked me to lie down and I did. Here, I sort of came into my own, and went forth to pursue/fulfill something I always wanted to do. I ask her if she wants a massage, actually I don't think I even asked her. I brought forth some body oil and started massaging her neck/shoulders. She takes off her top and bra and I continue downward. After several minutes, I manage to conjure up the courage and ask her to take her jeans off, and she does so willingly. Massage continues southward.
There was intermittent making out going on throughout this, but nothing more. Here is where things get a little hazy for me.
Objectively speaking, here is a beautiful girl who has come to my place more or less of her own volition. She is not drunk or trashed. She is lying naked in my bed with me(I'm fully clothed). And I have just given her a full body massage. Ok, with me so far ? Then, she says "You weren't thinking of getting laid tonight, were you?" And I say "Maybe" And she says, "Aww, that's sweet but you're too young for me" I'm 25 she's 35.
More kissing/fondling/making out. She spends the night, we cuddle and make out whenever we're awake during the night. I try to walk her to her car this morning, she says she'd rather I didn't. (Presumably she didn't want me to know her car/numberplate? This is sort of a small suburban town) A tiny bit of making out and she is gone. We did exchange phone numbers(I get the impression that she did so begrudgingly.) but I doubt I will ever hear or see her again.
Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session. That couldn't be it, could it?
Did I do something wrong or was it never her intention of hooking up? Was I not forceful enough...I did ask her to take off her jeans, I don't know how more assertive I could have been. Did she change her mind midway through our discourse at my place, for some reason?
I'm going insane (and a teeny bit paranoid) trying to figure out where my mistake lay. Please explain to me the nature of this behaviour.
Thanks!
So, I was at my regular bar just like any other Monday. I walk in, and notice that someone is sitting at my usual stool at the bar. I pay it no mind and sit a few chairs next. After a drink and a brief chat with the bartender, I notice that said adjacent occupant is eyeing me. She moves a stool or so closer to me and asks "So, do you know [Bartender's name]?"
So we chatted briefly about the bartender and the establishment and other sundry topics of mutual interest. There was a sense I got from her interaction that she was about to leave when I arrived at the bar, and that she was just hanging around to talk to me at that precise moment. This might have been cleverly plotted through certain words being overused or it might just be in my head. We play trivia and she says she is only going to stick around for this one round. But she stays till the end. We lose gloriously.
There was a point in our conversation when the landscape of what was entailed changed from "just some people talking at a bar" to "possibility of a hookup". It was so darn subtle, that my mind sober from this morning's crisp air and a tall coffee cannot fathom it, so my inebriated self last night was far beyond trying to understand what was going on. She led and I followed.
Anyway, "One more drink and I'll leave you be" turned into "I don't think I can drive home, I think I'll crash at the nearest hotel?"
Now, we had been talking extensively about how I lived across the street from the bar. And how I was known to stumble home after many a drinking session. So, I say "Nonsense, you're crashing with me" And to my surprise, she says yes and we leave the bar before closing time.
We go back to my place, she puts Semisonic on. (she liked Semisonic, for some reason) Streaming from somewhere. We talk and jam for a while. Subsequently, she lies on the bed and says "When are you going to kiss me" or something of that nature.
Here, I must mention that I am very sheepish about these things in general. And to have a half-naked, absolutely divine female lying in my bed asking me to kiss her was really too much for me to handle.
So, I lean down and kiss her. Even then, I had no notion of what protocols I was supposed to follow. Do I presume that this is a hookup and lie down in the bed, or should I go to the spare room?
Anyway, like I said, she led and I followed. She asked me to lie down and I did. Here, I sort of came into my own, and went forth to pursue/fulfill something I always wanted to do. I ask her if she wants a massage, actually I don't think I even asked her. I brought forth some body oil and started massaging her neck/shoulders. She takes off her top and bra and I continue downward. After several minutes, I manage to conjure up the courage and ask her to take her jeans off, and she does so willingly. Massage continues southward.
There was intermittent making out going on throughout this, but nothing more. Here is where things get a little hazy for me.
Objectively speaking, here is a beautiful girl who has come to my place more or less of her own volition. She is not drunk or trashed. She is lying naked in my bed with me(I'm fully clothed). And I have just given her a full body massage. Ok, with me so far ? Then, she says "You weren't thinking of getting laid tonight, were you?" And I say "Maybe" And she says, "Aww, that's sweet but you're too young for me" I'm 25 she's 35.
More kissing/fondling/making out. She spends the night, we cuddle and make out whenever we're awake during the night. I try to walk her to her car this morning, she says she'd rather I didn't. (Presumably she didn't want me to know her car/numberplate? This is sort of a small suburban town) A tiny bit of making out and she is gone. We did exchange phone numbers(I get the impression that she did so begrudgingly.) but I doubt I will ever hear or see her again.
Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session. That couldn't be it, could it?
Did I do something wrong or was it never her intention of hooking up? Was I not forceful enough...I did ask her to take off her jeans, I don't know how more assertive I could have been. Did she change her mind midway through our discourse at my place, for some reason?
I'm going insane (and a teeny bit paranoid) trying to figure out where my mistake lay. Please explain to me the nature of this behaviour.
Thanks!
IMO, she was playing the role of the passive-aggressive coquette. She wanted something more, but didn't want to just blurt it out or take the lead, for reasons too numerous to mention here. She was looking for someone to just ravish her, like the guy on the cover of some romantic novel. That way, she doesn't have to really take responsibility for her actions. In her mind, she's being carried away by some darkly handsome scoundrel ... oh dear! I feel faint ...
Your mistake (if you want to call it that) was that you didn't take the lead.
I think, looking ahead, you're better off without her. These types of people are often fundamentally broken upstairs.
But do cultivate an appropriate sense of going-after-what-you-want.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:08 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Your mistake (if you want to call it that) was that you didn't take the lead.
I think, looking ahead, you're better off without her. These types of people are often fundamentally broken upstairs.
But do cultivate an appropriate sense of going-after-what-you-want.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 8:08 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
It sounds like she was pretty much in command of the situation. I wouldn't fret about a missed opportunity. It sounds like you are a great guy and because you were careful about not crossing boundaries, if she wants to hook up, she'll give you a call (or you can call her to see if she wants to see you again- don't just wait for her to call). Ironmouth could be right about her having a boyfriend...
For whatever reason, you didn't go all the way. But it sounds like a good night so just be happy about that, I don't think you did anything wrong. :)
posted by Eicats at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
For whatever reason, you didn't go all the way. But it sounds like a good night so just be happy about that, I don't think you did anything wrong. :)
posted by Eicats at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
The only thing wrong here is how you're overthinking it.
People are complicated, and you'll never understand anyone, not really. She stopped at what sounds like an odd time to me, too, but there's no point second-guessing yourself over it.
You did fine. Get back on the horse.
posted by rokusan at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
People are complicated, and you'll never understand anyone, not really. She stopped at what sounds like an odd time to me, too, but there's no point second-guessing yourself over it.
You did fine. Get back on the horse.
posted by rokusan at 8:12 AM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
She got naked on your bed. You remained fully clothed and gave her a full body massage. This is very nice of you, but probably not the direction she had in mind. She probably realized that you weren't accustomed to one-night stands, which made the age difference and experience gap feel far more acute. In these situations, it's still better to be overly-cautious and than reckless, and I'm sure she appreciated the consideration.
I think, looking ahead, you're better off without her. These types of people are often fundamentally broken upstairs.
Um, what?
posted by zoomorphic at 8:15 AM on June 30, 2009 [11 favorites]
I think, looking ahead, you're better off without her. These types of people are often fundamentally broken upstairs.
Um, what?
posted by zoomorphic at 8:15 AM on June 30, 2009 [11 favorites]
The only thing wrong here is how you're overthinking it.
People are complicated, and you'll never understand anyone, not really. She stopped at what sounds like an odd time to me, too, but there's no point second-guessing yourself over it.
Exactly. She sounds pretty weird, and I can imagine you feel frustrated, but trying to figure out in hindsight where you went wrong is pretty much never the right thing to do. It's always comforting to be able to feel like you've learned something from a less-than-satisfying experience and you could do better the next time you're in a similar situation, but there isn't always something to learn, except that people are weird and you can't know their motivations. You just have to move on.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:18 AM on June 30, 2009
People are complicated, and you'll never understand anyone, not really. She stopped at what sounds like an odd time to me, too, but there's no point second-guessing yourself over it.
Exactly. She sounds pretty weird, and I can imagine you feel frustrated, but trying to figure out in hindsight where you went wrong is pretty much never the right thing to do. It's always comforting to be able to feel like you've learned something from a less-than-satisfying experience and you could do better the next time you're in a similar situation, but there isn't always something to learn, except that people are weird and you can't know their motivations. You just have to move on.
posted by ludwig_van at 8:18 AM on June 30, 2009
While you might be beating yourself up a little for not pursuing the situation more, you should also give yourself credit for being a gentleman and not being too insistent when she let you know she didn't want to go any further.
Lesser men might not have been so respectful, especially with a head full of booze. Try and enjoy the fact that you had a pretty darn good experience and that you handled it like a real man.
Good for you!
posted by elder18 at 8:20 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Lesser men might not have been so respectful, especially with a head full of booze. Try and enjoy the fact that you had a pretty darn good experience and that you handled it like a real man.
Good for you!
posted by elder18 at 8:20 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Sounds like you were looking for different things that night. These things are complicated, and everyone is different and has different expectations. But from what you've described, she was most likely just looking for some no-strings attached fun for one night. Could be sex, could be not (for any number of reasons). But it doesn't matter. In the end, she doesn't want you to walk her to the car or exchange numbers because, well, that's not really in keeping with the no-strings attached aspect. And on preview, Zoomorphic is right.
posted by molecicco at 8:26 AM on June 30, 2009
posted by molecicco at 8:26 AM on June 30, 2009
It sounds like she got what she wanted, which was a fun drunken make-out evening with you. Hopefully you also had fun.
For some people, many of whom are women, actually having sex is a much bigger deal than having a make-out session, and they might be interested in doing the latter in situations where they're not interested in doing the former.
Don't overthink it. You did what felt right to you, and she did what felt right to her, and you both had fun, right?
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:27 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
For some people, many of whom are women, actually having sex is a much bigger deal than having a make-out session, and they might be interested in doing the latter in situations where they're not interested in doing the former.
Don't overthink it. You did what felt right to you, and she did what felt right to her, and you both had fun, right?
posted by Sidhedevil at 8:27 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
1) what rokusan said.
2) cool papa bell needs to stop reading thinking every woman is into the rules.
3) what zoomorphic said.
and 4) re: Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session. That couldn't be it, could it?
she got naked with you, dude, so that wasn't it, but wow—that would turn me off pretty strongly. your overthinking of the situation already makes you seem pretty insecure but that's a clincher right there. if you can't feel like you deserve your partner, why should your partner bother with you? work on that confidence level!
posted by lia at 8:29 AM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
2) cool papa bell needs to stop reading thinking every woman is into the rules.
3) what zoomorphic said.
and 4) re: Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session. That couldn't be it, could it?
she got naked with you, dude, so that wasn't it, but wow—that would turn me off pretty strongly. your overthinking of the situation already makes you seem pretty insecure but that's a clincher right there. if you can't feel like you deserve your partner, why should your partner bother with you? work on that confidence level!
posted by lia at 8:29 AM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Based on your description you need to turn up the ferocious man-raptor in you. She probably was down for sex, but your lack of confidence kinda turned her off. I am a 25 year old male, and have had a fair share of experience with cougars and I have gotten the "aw sweety you are cute, but too young for me." Usually this is a sign of not being aggressive enough, she probably wanted a man to ravage her.
I wouldn't feel bad about it, chalk it up as a lesson. Next time if she is giving signals that obvious just go for it.
posted by OuttaHere at 8:29 AM on June 30, 2009
I wouldn't feel bad about it, chalk it up as a lesson. Next time if she is giving signals that obvious just go for it.
posted by OuttaHere at 8:29 AM on June 30, 2009
You did something wrong: nothing.
You were too passive, so she passed. Women want their man to take control. They want direction. It excites them. Remember that next time.
posted by Zambrano at 8:34 AM on June 30, 2009
You were too passive, so she passed. Women want their man to take control. They want direction. It excites them. Remember that next time.
posted by Zambrano at 8:34 AM on June 30, 2009
My guess: She was pretty drunk, and open to doing lots of stuff. But, as you took your time with the massage, etc. she started sobering up. At that point, she changed her mind about making sexy time with you, but it was too late for her to bail out completely without making you feel bad. So she stuck around 'till morning. You'll never see her again.
Protip: Many ladies become completely different people with some booze in them. They can be really into you one night (after a few drinks), but when you call 'em a couple of nights later (sober) -- they can't get off the phone with you fast enough. Don't take it personally.
Next time, reduce the foreplay and go for the sex faster. Take control, lead the activities. (Assuming that the girl is not falling-down, barfing drunk -- having sex with a girl like that would be disrespectful, and taking advantage of her.)
posted by Simon Barclay at 8:39 AM on June 30, 2009
Protip: Many ladies become completely different people with some booze in them. They can be really into you one night (after a few drinks), but when you call 'em a couple of nights later (sober) -- they can't get off the phone with you fast enough. Don't take it personally.
Next time, reduce the foreplay and go for the sex faster. Take control, lead the activities. (Assuming that the girl is not falling-down, barfing drunk -- having sex with a girl like that would be disrespectful, and taking advantage of her.)
posted by Simon Barclay at 8:39 AM on June 30, 2009
"You deserve someone much better than me"
This.
If I were making out with someone I'd just met, that would signal to me 1) a possible interest in pursuing something more than I have in mind, 2) a self-esteem problem, and 3) someone who lacks the confidence and assertiveness I desire in a sex partner. That one statement is all it'd take to change the nature of the encounter and affect my potential interest in someone. I've had partners say it to me after we'd been dating a while, and it's not great then either, but on a first encounter it'd be too much.
posted by notashroom at 8:41 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
This.
If I were making out with someone I'd just met, that would signal to me 1) a possible interest in pursuing something more than I have in mind, 2) a self-esteem problem, and 3) someone who lacks the confidence and assertiveness I desire in a sex partner. That one statement is all it'd take to change the nature of the encounter and affect my potential interest in someone. I've had partners say it to me after we'd been dating a while, and it's not great then either, but on a first encounter it'd be too much.
posted by notashroom at 8:41 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
When you're drunk, you don't want a full body massage. You want the other person to be about in the same state of undress that you are, doing what you do in various states of undress.
Also, this: Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session.
If someone said that to me, I'd agree. I don't need to prove to you that you're wrong, I don't have the time/energy to prove to you that you're wrong, and there's lots of other people out there who don't feel that way about themselves...if you're saying it, then I'm gonna assume you're right. (Also, to me, it's a very "young"/manipulative thing to say.)
posted by AlisonM at 8:54 AM on June 30, 2009
Also, this: Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session.
If someone said that to me, I'd agree. I don't need to prove to you that you're wrong, I don't have the time/energy to prove to you that you're wrong, and there's lots of other people out there who don't feel that way about themselves...if you're saying it, then I'm gonna assume you're right. (Also, to me, it's a very "young"/manipulative thing to say.)
posted by AlisonM at 8:54 AM on June 30, 2009
Women want their man to take control. They want direction. It excites them. Remember that next time.
Please don't remember that next time.
posted by robself at 8:55 AM on June 30, 2009 [17 favorites]
Please don't remember that next time.
posted by robself at 8:55 AM on June 30, 2009 [17 favorites]
There are some really odd things about your post:
1) You ask us to explain someone's behavior as if we've read some sort of definitive guide called "When Women Say This, They Mean That." IF such a book exist, it's for suckers.
Say you offer your friend an slice of pizza and he says, "No thanks." What does that mean? Does it mean he hates you and doesn't want to accept anything from you? Does it mean he's not hungry? Does it mean he doesn't like Pizza?
The woman said you're too young for her. Maybe she meant -- hold onto your hat -- you're too young for her. Maybe, according to her value system, 35-year-olds shouldn't have sex with 25-year-olds. At 43, I would feel a bit odd having sex with someone in her 20s, but other people my age feel differently.
(I'd have an easier time making out with a 20-something girl. Isn't it strange how my values are so arbitrary? Sorry, that's what you get when you tangle with homosapiens.)
The woman claimed (via her actions) to want to make out with you but not have sex with you. Maybe that's because -- keep your shirt on! -- she wanted to make out with you but not have sex with you.
Maybe she didn't want to have sex with you because (a) she only has sex with people she's known for a while; (b) she was having her period; (c) she's cheating on her boyfriend but her guilty feelings will only let her cheat so far; (d) you're 25.
Maybe she was toying with you.
Maybe she was playing hard to get.
Maybe she wanted sex at first and then fell out of the mood. If so, that might have been "your fault" or she may just be a moody person.
Maybe she gets off on the power of leading men on.
Maybe being buzzed made her want sex, but as the buzz wore off, she didn't feel like it any more.
The point is HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW?
The bad news for you is that the Behavior Manual does not exist. Person A and person B will sometimes both behave the same way for entirely different reasons. If not understanding someone's motivation drives you crazy, you're going to be in a straight jacket before long.
2) Saying "You could do better" is a turnoff. You know what else is a turnoff? Comic-book-guy phrasing. I hope that you're just doing it here (for comic effect?) and not around women you're trying to seduce, unless you're trying to seduce women at Comicon.
In case you don't know what, I'm referring to, I mean stuff like this:
"So... I think I might have ruined a perfectly good opportunity for my first one night stand last night. Please tell me what I did wrong, ye denizens of yon AskMetafilterland."
When I read that, I was tempted to write, "What you did wrong was probably saying something like, 'ye denizens of yon AskMetafilterland.'"
See also...
"I notice that said adjacent occupant is eyeing me."
"we chatted briefly about the bartender and the establishment and other sundry topics of mutual interest."
"Here, I sort of came into my own, and went forth to pursue/fulfill something I always wanted to do."
"I brought forth some body oil and started massaging her neck/shoulders."
Phrasing like that sounds, to me, like a sort of "heh heh" nervous cover trying to pass off as humor. It doesn't sound confident. It's in the same category as "you deserve someone better."
posted by grumblebee at 9:03 AM on June 30, 2009 [28 favorites]
1) You ask us to explain someone's behavior as if we've read some sort of definitive guide called "When Women Say This, They Mean That." IF such a book exist, it's for suckers.
Say you offer your friend an slice of pizza and he says, "No thanks." What does that mean? Does it mean he hates you and doesn't want to accept anything from you? Does it mean he's not hungry? Does it mean he doesn't like Pizza?
The woman said you're too young for her. Maybe she meant -- hold onto your hat -- you're too young for her. Maybe, according to her value system, 35-year-olds shouldn't have sex with 25-year-olds. At 43, I would feel a bit odd having sex with someone in her 20s, but other people my age feel differently.
(I'd have an easier time making out with a 20-something girl. Isn't it strange how my values are so arbitrary? Sorry, that's what you get when you tangle with homosapiens.)
The woman claimed (via her actions) to want to make out with you but not have sex with you. Maybe that's because -- keep your shirt on! -- she wanted to make out with you but not have sex with you.
Maybe she didn't want to have sex with you because (a) she only has sex with people she's known for a while; (b) she was having her period; (c) she's cheating on her boyfriend but her guilty feelings will only let her cheat so far; (d) you're 25.
Maybe she was toying with you.
Maybe she was playing hard to get.
Maybe she wanted sex at first and then fell out of the mood. If so, that might have been "your fault" or she may just be a moody person.
Maybe she gets off on the power of leading men on.
Maybe being buzzed made her want sex, but as the buzz wore off, she didn't feel like it any more.
The point is HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW?
The bad news for you is that the Behavior Manual does not exist. Person A and person B will sometimes both behave the same way for entirely different reasons. If not understanding someone's motivation drives you crazy, you're going to be in a straight jacket before long.
2) Saying "You could do better" is a turnoff. You know what else is a turnoff? Comic-book-guy phrasing. I hope that you're just doing it here (for comic effect?) and not around women you're trying to seduce, unless you're trying to seduce women at Comicon.
In case you don't know what, I'm referring to, I mean stuff like this:
"So... I think I might have ruined a perfectly good opportunity for my first one night stand last night. Please tell me what I did wrong, ye denizens of yon AskMetafilterland."
When I read that, I was tempted to write, "What you did wrong was probably saying something like, 'ye denizens of yon AskMetafilterland.'"
See also...
"I notice that said adjacent occupant is eyeing me."
"we chatted briefly about the bartender and the establishment and other sundry topics of mutual interest."
"Here, I sort of came into my own, and went forth to pursue/fulfill something I always wanted to do."
"I brought forth some body oil and started massaging her neck/shoulders."
Phrasing like that sounds, to me, like a sort of "heh heh" nervous cover trying to pass off as humor. It doesn't sound confident. It's in the same category as "you deserve someone better."
posted by grumblebee at 9:03 AM on June 30, 2009 [28 favorites]
The interactions between a man and a woman are best explained through baseball:
It's like Manny playing for a farm team. Sure, it's kinda fun playing with kids who have yet to really learn the game but it really isn't where he wants to be right now.
posted by Loto at 9:08 AM on June 30, 2009
It's like Manny playing for a farm team. Sure, it's kinda fun playing with kids who have yet to really learn the game but it really isn't where he wants to be right now.
posted by Loto at 9:08 AM on June 30, 2009
I don't think you did anything wrong. She sounds like someone who knew pretty much what she wanted and it was not actual sex with a stranger. Your sensitivity is admirable and please, pay no attention to the "take control" messages. You really should not do this unless you know your partner really well... some women like it, some really don't and you don't want to risk unwittingly pushing someone beyond their limits because you think a real man "takes over and gives direction". That's a bad message.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 9:08 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 9:08 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
It sounds like you were too passive. I can't say. I am not sure what she wanted. Perhaps she wanted to go out and tease some pretty young thing. Perhaps she wanted to be ravished and fucked senseless. No one can say but her.
But it seems like this is a big issue for you. You are so very concerned about this cherry of yours that you are not ripping your clothes off when there is an oil-clicked naked woman on your bed. Perhaps finding a sex partner on CraigsList to obliterate your cherry will clear your head a little.
posted by munchingzombie at 9:10 AM on June 30, 2009
But it seems like this is a big issue for you. You are so very concerned about this cherry of yours that you are not ripping your clothes off when there is an oil-clicked naked woman on your bed. Perhaps finding a sex partner on CraigsList to obliterate your cherry will clear your head a little.
posted by munchingzombie at 9:10 AM on June 30, 2009
Objectively speaking, here is a beautiful girl who has come to my place more or less of her own volition. She is not drunk or trashed. She is lying naked in my bed with me(I'm fully clothed). And I have just given her a full body massage. Ok, with me so far ? Then, she says "You weren't thinking of getting laid tonight, were you?" And I say "Maybe" And she says, "Aww, that's sweet but you're too young for me" I'm 25 she's 35.
My guess is that she did wants something more than that, but your insecurity and hesitation was a turn-off, and she realized "this kid isn't going to be able to make the sex worth it."
Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session. That couldn't be it, could it?
jesus christ man you are making out with a stranger don't say that stuff
Did I do something wrong or was it never her intention of hooking up? Was I not forceful enough...I did ask her to take off her jeans, I don't know how more assertive I could have been. Did she change her mind midway through our discourse at my place, for some reason?
You probably could/should have been more assertive, but it's always better to err on the side of caution. Besides, you fulfilled your massage fantasy, so there you go.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:16 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
My guess is that she did wants something more than that, but your insecurity and hesitation was a turn-off, and she realized "this kid isn't going to be able to make the sex worth it."
Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session. That couldn't be it, could it?
jesus christ man you are making out with a stranger don't say that stuff
Did I do something wrong or was it never her intention of hooking up? Was I not forceful enough...I did ask her to take off her jeans, I don't know how more assertive I could have been. Did she change her mind midway through our discourse at my place, for some reason?
You probably could/should have been more assertive, but it's always better to err on the side of caution. Besides, you fulfilled your massage fantasy, so there you go.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:16 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
You took out body oil and massaged her? What is this, a Cinemax movie/Cialis commercial? Did you guys also take baths outside in separate tubs?
Nthing that that's really out of line for a random hookup from a bar.
posted by hamsterdam at 9:18 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Nthing that that's really out of line for a random hookup from a bar.
posted by hamsterdam at 9:18 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
So, I lean down and kiss her. Even then, I had no notion of what protocols I was supposed to follow. Do I presume that this is a hookup and lie down in the bed, or should I go to the spare room?
Dude. Write this down and memorize it and follow it in the future: YOU LIE DOWN IN THE BED AND CONTINUE MAKING OUT WITH THE GOAL OF HAVING A GOOD TIME, if you want to. There's no secret or agenda or protocol per se, you do what you want while respecting any and all boundaries that she sets.
As to her comment about the age difference, I don't think she was referring to the chronological difference. Re: Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session.
Don't say that shit! You had just met, you're making out, it's not a goddamn commitment. To even say that shit kills the mood for everyone within a 100 foot radius. Do you have a penis? Does she like penises? Does she seem interested in your penis? If the answer to these questions is yes, then you're goddamn perfect for each other at that point. STFU, get out of your own andgGo with the flow.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:25 AM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Dude. Write this down and memorize it and follow it in the future: YOU LIE DOWN IN THE BED AND CONTINUE MAKING OUT WITH THE GOAL OF HAVING A GOOD TIME, if you want to. There's no secret or agenda or protocol per se, you do what you want while respecting any and all boundaries that she sets.
As to her comment about the age difference, I don't think she was referring to the chronological difference. Re: Ok, I might have said something like "You deserve someone much better than me" during one makeout session.
Don't say that shit! You had just met, you're making out, it's not a goddamn commitment. To even say that shit kills the mood for everyone within a 100 foot radius. Do you have a penis? Does she like penises? Does she seem interested in your penis? If the answer to these questions is yes, then you're goddamn perfect for each other at that point. STFU, get out of your own andgGo with the flow.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:25 AM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
You sound like a romantic type, not a candidate for a cheap hookup. It seems you spent the evening trying to woo her, being charming and sensitive and self-deprecating. These are qualities people might like in someone over the long term, but not in a random bar encounter. People who are out for a random bar encounter want something fast and thoughtless.
So guess what? You're not a good candidate for one-night stands. I never was, either. I can remember a few times when a woman came up to me and switched on the light, saying something blatantly shocking or just using pickup lines (e.g., "I like this drink! It's called 'a long, slow comfortable screw against the wall.'"). And I always responded with nice-guy stuff, dry humor and thoughtful statements. Total dud every time.
So there you go. If I had known some magic key to push things farther I still wouldn't have enjoyed what lay beyond. Because, contrary to general opinion, not all men automatically thunder after sex wherever it's offered. I liked a little meaning, a little give-and-take and not just a sex act. You may be the same.
posted by argybarg at 9:36 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
So guess what? You're not a good candidate for one-night stands. I never was, either. I can remember a few times when a woman came up to me and switched on the light, saying something blatantly shocking or just using pickup lines (e.g., "I like this drink! It's called 'a long, slow comfortable screw against the wall.'"). And I always responded with nice-guy stuff, dry humor and thoughtful statements. Total dud every time.
So there you go. If I had known some magic key to push things farther I still wouldn't have enjoyed what lay beyond. Because, contrary to general opinion, not all men automatically thunder after sex wherever it's offered. I liked a little meaning, a little give-and-take and not just a sex act. You may be the same.
posted by argybarg at 9:36 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
To me you sound like a nice guy with a tendency to over-think things who got in a little over his head.
Instead of enjoying the moment, you kept thinking ahead and projecting, worrying about what you should do next and where this could lead and what she expected from you. I would have said hey, don't think too much, and just follow her lead.
She's half-naked? Get half naked yourself. She's lying on the bed? You lie on the bed. She wants to make out? Keep going. She obviously had no problem stopping you when things turned in a different direction than she wanted, anyway.
But you still had a good time, right? You were with a gorgeous woman making out half the night.
So don't beat yourself up about it too much.
posted by misha at 9:54 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Instead of enjoying the moment, you kept thinking ahead and projecting, worrying about what you should do next and where this could lead and what she expected from you. I would have said hey, don't think too much, and just follow her lead.
She's half-naked? Get half naked yourself. She's lying on the bed? You lie on the bed. She wants to make out? Keep going. She obviously had no problem stopping you when things turned in a different direction than she wanted, anyway.
But you still had a good time, right? You were with a gorgeous woman making out half the night.
So don't beat yourself up about it too much.
posted by misha at 9:54 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think, looking ahead, you're better off without her. These types of people are often fundamentally broken upstairs.
Um, what?
Passive-aggressive people who make ambiguous, leading comments like "You weren't thinking of getting laid tonight, were you?" are often bad news.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:08 AM on June 30, 2009
Um, what?
Passive-aggressive people who make ambiguous, leading comments like "You weren't thinking of getting laid tonight, were you?" are often bad news.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 10:08 AM on June 30, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for all the answers so far! Yeah, the whole "deserve someone better thing" might have played a big part in how things progressed. The ramblings of a drunk man, I guess.
grumblebee, yeah the whole comic book guy speak was for comic effect. Also, I sort of wanted the HiveMind to opine, nothing more than that, upon possible causes. To try to quantify human behaviour even if for a very small subset of interactions. Which is precisely what you did. I'm just trying to understand.
As far as the massage thing goes, it was a specific thing I wanted to do. Both parties enjoyed it immensely.
Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out. And it could have meant potential discomfort and embarrassment for both of us if the sight of it was not welcomed by her.
By the way, I had a fantastic time talking, making out, cuddling and waking up next to someone for a change. Not to sound full of myself, but I'm actually more concerned that I let the girl down by not meeting her expectations somehow.
posted by prufrock at 10:12 AM on June 30, 2009
grumblebee, yeah the whole comic book guy speak was for comic effect. Also, I sort of wanted the HiveMind to opine, nothing more than that, upon possible causes. To try to quantify human behaviour even if for a very small subset of interactions. Which is precisely what you did. I'm just trying to understand.
As far as the massage thing goes, it was a specific thing I wanted to do. Both parties enjoyed it immensely.
Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out. And it could have meant potential discomfort and embarrassment for both of us if the sight of it was not welcomed by her.
By the way, I had a fantastic time talking, making out, cuddling and waking up next to someone for a change. Not to sound full of myself, but I'm actually more concerned that I let the girl down by not meeting her expectations somehow.
posted by prufrock at 10:12 AM on June 30, 2009
A woman went to your place, got naked, and made out with you. Someday when you're a gazillion years old and decrepit, you and your wife avoid nakedness in front of each other as an act of kindness, this may be something you look back on wistfully. I wouldn't worry about it, or think too much about it - this is the equivalent of a hard hit ball that just died at the warning track.
posted by Calloused_Foot at 10:18 AM on June 30, 2009
posted by Calloused_Foot at 10:18 AM on June 30, 2009
It sounds like you triggered her Abort Protocol.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:24 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:24 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Speculation speculation speculation, that's all we are doing here.
But, I disagree with Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out. You could have "whipped it out"...or, since you said you were fully clothed, you could have taken off your shirt. And then later taken off your pants.
I think I would be slightly uncomfortable being fully naked with a first time hookup while he is fully clothed. (straight woman here) Then again, maybe I'd be fine with it. Who knows.
posted by teragram at 10:27 AM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
But, I disagree with Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out. You could have "whipped it out"...or, since you said you were fully clothed, you could have taken off your shirt. And then later taken off your pants.
I think I would be slightly uncomfortable being fully naked with a first time hookup while he is fully clothed. (straight woman here) Then again, maybe I'd be fine with it. Who knows.
posted by teragram at 10:27 AM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
PS, I am really glad you had a fantastic time! It sounds really fun, and there is nothing wrong with a bit of a debrief with yourself afterwards.
posted by teragram at 10:31 AM on June 30, 2009
posted by teragram at 10:31 AM on June 30, 2009
"Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out."
Huh?
Did you try taking her hand and leading her to the bed? Undressing her? Kissing your way down her body? Pulling her to you for kisses? Telling her that you want to fuck the life out of her?
Being assertive doesn't mean whipping it out.
And it's not a single move. Being assertive lasts the whole time.
Have you ever met anyone who is assertive outside the sexual arena? He's the guy who says, "Tomorrow we're all going out to dinner. I expect you to be there!" He's not the guy who forces everyone to go to dinner, and he's not the guy who stuffs food down people's throat. He IS the guy who says, "You should try the salmon. It's fantastic." He's the guy who says, "Now lets go dancing" and starts off towards the dance club, knowing people will follow and not caring if they don't. He's not the guy who starts tap-dancing on your dining room table or pushes you onto the dance floor.
That said, I'm not the most assertive guy. However, I recognize that there's a middle path between "You deserve someone better" and whipping it out.
posted by grumblebee at 10:40 AM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Huh?
Did you try taking her hand and leading her to the bed? Undressing her? Kissing your way down her body? Pulling her to you for kisses? Telling her that you want to fuck the life out of her?
Being assertive doesn't mean whipping it out.
And it's not a single move. Being assertive lasts the whole time.
Have you ever met anyone who is assertive outside the sexual arena? He's the guy who says, "Tomorrow we're all going out to dinner. I expect you to be there!" He's not the guy who forces everyone to go to dinner, and he's not the guy who stuffs food down people's throat. He IS the guy who says, "You should try the salmon. It's fantastic." He's the guy who says, "Now lets go dancing" and starts off towards the dance club, knowing people will follow and not caring if they don't. He's not the guy who starts tap-dancing on your dining room table or pushes you onto the dance floor.
That said, I'm not the most assertive guy. However, I recognize that there's a middle path between "You deserve someone better" and whipping it out.
posted by grumblebee at 10:40 AM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Not to sound full of myself, but I'm actually more concerned that I let the girl down by not meeting her expectations somehow.
Don't waste your time worrying about this. What's the worst-case scenario? She was hoping you'd be a bit more assertive and your weren't?
So?
So she's home crying into her beer and contemplating suicide? No. She's over it and out looking for some more assertive guy. Which might suck for you, but it's no big deal for her. You were a one-night fling for her, not a marriage that went bad.
posted by grumblebee at 10:46 AM on June 30, 2009
Don't waste your time worrying about this. What's the worst-case scenario? She was hoping you'd be a bit more assertive and your weren't?
So?
So she's home crying into her beer and contemplating suicide? No. She's over it and out looking for some more assertive guy. Which might suck for you, but it's no big deal for her. You were a one-night fling for her, not a marriage that went bad.
posted by grumblebee at 10:46 AM on June 30, 2009
Passive-aggressive people who make ambiguous, leading comments like "You weren't thinking of getting laid tonight, were you?" are often bad news.
Maybe, I guess, if this girl is walked straight out of a Ladder manual. But think of the time line: a girl goes back to a guy's place, takes off her top...takes off her jeans...yet the guy remains fully clothed... until she gets sleepy and realizes that unless she pins him to the mattress and helicopters her boobs in his face, tonight she's going to get a massage before rolling over and falling asleep.
Again, it sounds like everyone had a good time, and few people would discount a night where they get a free rub-down. But prufrock's behavior probably signaled a lack of experience with wild and crazy one-night stands. BTW, this is fine, prufrock, and often a good quality with lots of women.
I'd bet the woman in question realized the guy was a little uncomfortable with letting loose and she let him off the hook. As other posters mentioned above, maybe she was more into the massage than the sex. Maybe she doesn't like one night stands either. Maybe she just wanted to make out and a massage is where that night led. Maybe she was on her period! That woman had a lot of reasons to skip the sex, but being a "fundamentally broken" individual, a faux damsel in distress, or a passive aggressive coquette isn't the obvious conclusion.
posted by zoomorphic at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Maybe, I guess, if this girl is walked straight out of a Ladder manual. But think of the time line: a girl goes back to a guy's place, takes off her top...takes off her jeans...yet the guy remains fully clothed... until she gets sleepy and realizes that unless she pins him to the mattress and helicopters her boobs in his face, tonight she's going to get a massage before rolling over and falling asleep.
Again, it sounds like everyone had a good time, and few people would discount a night where they get a free rub-down. But prufrock's behavior probably signaled a lack of experience with wild and crazy one-night stands. BTW, this is fine, prufrock, and often a good quality with lots of women.
I'd bet the woman in question realized the guy was a little uncomfortable with letting loose and she let him off the hook. As other posters mentioned above, maybe she was more into the massage than the sex. Maybe she doesn't like one night stands either. Maybe she just wanted to make out and a massage is where that night led. Maybe she was on her period! That woman had a lot of reasons to skip the sex, but being a "fundamentally broken" individual, a faux damsel in distress, or a passive aggressive coquette isn't the obvious conclusion.
posted by zoomorphic at 10:51 AM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
That said, I'm not the most assertive guy. However, I recognize that there's a middle path between "You deserve someone better" and whipping it out.
This.
"I'd like to make love to you" or even "Let's fuck, what do you say?" are generally pretty unambiguous but not boorish (at least not in this context--at the checkout in the supermarket, they might be boorish!)
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:02 AM on June 30, 2009
This.
"I'd like to make love to you" or even "Let's fuck, what do you say?" are generally pretty unambiguous but not boorish (at least not in this context--at the checkout in the supermarket, they might be boorish!)
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:02 AM on June 30, 2009
Maybe she just wanted to make out and a massage is where that night led.
Which totally explains why she willingly got naked and ambiguously brought up the subject of sex.
/ the editor in me"
In the subjunctive mood, no less!
I'd argue that you're looking at the world through a straw and just aren't describing reality, which is messy and complicated and has far more broken people than we all want to admit.
I mean, is it possible to even count the number of relationship AskMe questions where the answer isn't at least partially, "Wow, that person Is. Really. Fucked. Up."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:08 AM on June 30, 2009
Which totally explains why she willingly got naked and ambiguously brought up the subject of sex.
/ the editor in me"
In the subjunctive mood, no less!
I'd argue that you're looking at the world through a straw and just aren't describing reality, which is messy and complicated and has far more broken people than we all want to admit.
I mean, is it possible to even count the number of relationship AskMe questions where the answer isn't at least partially, "Wow, that person Is. Really. Fucked. Up."
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:08 AM on June 30, 2009
Oh my god zoomorphic, you are dead on here.
prufrock, by your own admission you weren't too great at interpreting what was going on last night. I think it's likely that she was not similarly impaired, and saw everything exactly for what it was, did what felt good as long as it felt good, and then bounced as soon as the moment was over. She was probably able to do this by being very relaxed about the whole thing. That's the sort of thing you could stand to learn from all of this -- oh, and to drink less too.
posted by hermitosis at 11:23 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
prufrock, by your own admission you weren't too great at interpreting what was going on last night. I think it's likely that she was not similarly impaired, and saw everything exactly for what it was, did what felt good as long as it felt good, and then bounced as soon as the moment was over. She was probably able to do this by being very relaxed about the whole thing. That's the sort of thing you could stand to learn from all of this -- oh, and to drink less too.
posted by hermitosis at 11:23 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
I mean, is it possible to even count the number of relationship AskMe questions...
Not to mention certain commentors...
posted by hermitosis at 11:25 AM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Not to mention certain commentors...
posted by hermitosis at 11:25 AM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out.
Girls know where the penis is, if she actually wanted it, she'd have had no trouble finding it on her own. If you're massaging and making out and whatnot and she's enjoying herself but decidedly avoiding any contact with your fully-clothed-yet-painfully-apparent penis, then you know that you are probably not going to get laid.
posted by hermitosis at 11:48 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Girls know where the penis is, if she actually wanted it, she'd have had no trouble finding it on her own. If you're massaging and making out and whatnot and she's enjoying herself but decidedly avoiding any contact with your fully-clothed-yet-painfully-apparent penis, then you know that you are probably not going to get laid.
posted by hermitosis at 11:48 AM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
"Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out."
Um, if she wasn't actively trying to whip it out or persuade you to do so then maybe her boundaries for that particular night didn't include orifices being penetrated by a penis. Maybe she decided it would be too much work for too little reward.
Subtlety has little place in random hook-ups - it's wise to make sure you're both on the same page. Even the language you've used to describe the encounter is kind of school-boyish, and casual hook-ups definitely aren't the place for that.
Hell, I'm still trying to work out what you did do with this woman, because it doesn't sound like you even got to the stage of doing anything that was unquestionably sexual. I'm getting a picture of you doing nothing more overtly sexual than fondling a boob, and definitely not getting the impression that she was doing anything sexual to you. I'd be utterly non-plussed if I picked up a guy for a hook-up and he seemed to want physical intimacy rather than sex, unless he'd told me in advance that those were the ground-rules.
posted by Lolie at 12:09 PM on June 30, 2009
Um, if she wasn't actively trying to whip it out or persuade you to do so then maybe her boundaries for that particular night didn't include orifices being penetrated by a penis. Maybe she decided it would be too much work for too little reward.
Subtlety has little place in random hook-ups - it's wise to make sure you're both on the same page. Even the language you've used to describe the encounter is kind of school-boyish, and casual hook-ups definitely aren't the place for that.
Hell, I'm still trying to work out what you did do with this woman, because it doesn't sound like you even got to the stage of doing anything that was unquestionably sexual. I'm getting a picture of you doing nothing more overtly sexual than fondling a boob, and definitely not getting the impression that she was doing anything sexual to you. I'd be utterly non-plussed if I picked up a guy for a hook-up and he seemed to want physical intimacy rather than sex, unless he'd told me in advance that those were the ground-rules.
posted by Lolie at 12:09 PM on June 30, 2009
two words: cunni lingus
She was probably disappointed you didn't go there
posted by FeeCT at 12:35 PM on June 30, 2009
She was probably disappointed you didn't go there
posted by FeeCT at 12:35 PM on June 30, 2009
Response by poster: Um, if she wasn't actively trying to whip it out or persuade you to do so then maybe her boundaries for that particular night didn't include orifices being penetrated by a penis. Maybe she decided it would be too much work for too little reward.
I feel you are absolutely right. As are zoomorphic and hermitosis. I wasn't getting that vibe off her, so I thought it best to be less assertive than more. Probably it was something I said/did/didn't do that made her less inclined. The lesser inclined she got, the less assertive I became. So it was doomed to failure. Yeah, I sort of...um... didn't even touch her boob. I was happy enough to lie in locked arms with her. Had she initiated something, however, I daresay I would have followed suit.
Also, I think I'm letting my lack of sexual experience show through my choice of diction and vocabulary. Which(lack of experience) also could have played a big part in last night's event. Or lack thereof.
But a part of me wants to do it all over again, perhaps with a different person. This was, genuinely, an eye-opening experience. Not to be a question glutton, but I wanted to ask a follow-up.
Is it a Bad Idea&trade to call this girl up and try to talk through this...High Fidelity style? Maybe look for a FWB thing? Or am I really, really cluless about this and last night was a fiasco for her. And calling her is the creepiest thing anyone could ever do?
posted by prufrock at 12:39 PM on June 30, 2009
I feel you are absolutely right. As are zoomorphic and hermitosis. I wasn't getting that vibe off her, so I thought it best to be less assertive than more. Probably it was something I said/did/didn't do that made her less inclined. The lesser inclined she got, the less assertive I became. So it was doomed to failure. Yeah, I sort of...um... didn't even touch her boob. I was happy enough to lie in locked arms with her. Had she initiated something, however, I daresay I would have followed suit.
Also, I think I'm letting my lack of sexual experience show through my choice of diction and vocabulary. Which(lack of experience) also could have played a big part in last night's event. Or lack thereof.
But a part of me wants to do it all over again, perhaps with a different person. This was, genuinely, an eye-opening experience. Not to be a question glutton, but I wanted to ask a follow-up.
Is it a Bad Idea&trade to call this girl up and try to talk through this...High Fidelity style? Maybe look for a FWB thing? Or am I really, really cluless about this and last night was a fiasco for her. And calling her is the creepiest thing anyone could ever do?
posted by prufrock at 12:39 PM on June 30, 2009
I'm thinking no on calling her. That would be weird, in my opinion. Perhaps you will see her again at the bar some time. Then you might get a do-over.
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 12:47 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by hellboundforcheddar at 12:47 PM on June 30, 2009
She was naked in your bed and you didn't even touch her boob. Okay, you were waiting to follow her lead but she probably thought she was leading--she asked you to kiss her, she undressed herself, she brought up the topic of sex. At that point, she was probably getting a little frustrated. At that point, she probably thought you didn't want to fuck her. At that point, when she and you still dodged confrontation, she was probably resigned to a sexless night. (This is just me, but when I am actively coming onto a man and all he does is passively follow my lead, I begin to feel like he doesn't desire me very strongly, if at all, and get turned off). I don't think most 35 year old women would go home with a stranger and strip in said stranger's bed and do all the other things she did unless they definitely wanted to have sex. Her comment about you being too young was probably not said in earnest but as a defense or as playful teasing or as a last ditch effort to taunt you into proving her wrong. Yeah, none of us know for sure, but it sounds to me like she wanted to get laid and instead went home frustrated and a little annoyed. I don't think it's a bad idea to call her again--you've got nothing to lose and she did give you her number, even if it was begrudgingly, but I wouldn't expect much to come of it. Chalk it up to experience--we've all got a sea of missed opportunities.
posted by Polychrome at 1:01 PM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by Polychrome at 1:01 PM on June 30, 2009 [5 favorites]
Oops--left out part of a sentence, let me fix it: At that point, when she asked you about getting laid and you still dodged confrontation,
posted by Polychrome at 1:03 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by Polychrome at 1:03 PM on June 30, 2009
"Women want their man to take control. They want direction. It excites them. Remember that next time."
"Please don't remember that next time."
"Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out."
I am in the "you really should have whipped it out" camp. I am not suggesting that you force your way or anything, but man you were just way too slow and timid. What bit did you not understand? She spent the evening at the bar with you, she jumped at the invitation to come to your place, she lay down on your bed, and she started getting naked.
Shortly after this point you should have been lying beside her, sans massage, rubbing your hard wee-wee against her thigh / ass and mouthing her naked body. That is the protocol, please follow it next time!
If she decides she wants out she has ample opportunity to say no, and it is clear from your narrative here that you will not push further. But you do not wait for instructions / permissions in these situations, you just move further and further toward sex until you find yourself actually having sex.
Good luck next time.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:07 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Please don't remember that next time."
"Being more assertive than I was being, would have meant me whipping it out."
I am in the "you really should have whipped it out" camp. I am not suggesting that you force your way or anything, but man you were just way too slow and timid. What bit did you not understand? She spent the evening at the bar with you, she jumped at the invitation to come to your place, she lay down on your bed, and she started getting naked.
Shortly after this point you should have been lying beside her, sans massage, rubbing your hard wee-wee against her thigh / ass and mouthing her naked body. That is the protocol, please follow it next time!
If she decides she wants out she has ample opportunity to say no, and it is clear from your narrative here that you will not push further. But you do not wait for instructions / permissions in these situations, you just move further and further toward sex until you find yourself actually having sex.
Good luck next time.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:07 PM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]
Don't call her. Listen to more of Bob instead - I suggest Blonde on Blonde - then go back out there and take another shot at it.
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:14 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by Dr Dracator at 1:14 PM on June 30, 2009
Is it a Bad Idea to call this girl up and try to talk through this...High Fidelity style?
HOLY CHRIST, YES. LET IT GO ALREADY.
Maybe look for a FWB thing? Or am I really, really cluless about this and last night was a fiasco for her.
No, it probably wasn't a "fiasco" for her. She got a massage, and got to make out with a much-younger guy who obviously thought she was cool. It was probably fun for her, even though she decided she didn't want to have sex with you.
And calling her is the creepiest thing anyone could ever do?
YES.
Also, she probably didn't even give you her real phone number, if she did it grudgingly.
Learn from this and move on. What did you do wrong? Maybe nothing. Maybe "You deserve someone better than me" was a total vagina-clencher for her.
The lesson you need to take away here is to stop overthinking, already, not to overthink more.
Look, you picked someone up at a bar, took them home, and had fun sexytimes with them, even though you didn't "go all the way." This is good, right? This is the kind of thing you're interested in?
Next time, don't babble passive-aggressive nonsense, but make your wishes clear in a respectful manner. This is not your Life's Only Chance For Sex.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:29 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
HOLY CHRIST, YES. LET IT GO ALREADY.
Maybe look for a FWB thing? Or am I really, really cluless about this and last night was a fiasco for her.
No, it probably wasn't a "fiasco" for her. She got a massage, and got to make out with a much-younger guy who obviously thought she was cool. It was probably fun for her, even though she decided she didn't want to have sex with you.
And calling her is the creepiest thing anyone could ever do?
YES.
Also, she probably didn't even give you her real phone number, if she did it grudgingly.
Learn from this and move on. What did you do wrong? Maybe nothing. Maybe "You deserve someone better than me" was a total vagina-clencher for her.
The lesson you need to take away here is to stop overthinking, already, not to overthink more.
Look, you picked someone up at a bar, took them home, and had fun sexytimes with them, even though you didn't "go all the way." This is good, right? This is the kind of thing you're interested in?
Next time, don't babble passive-aggressive nonsense, but make your wishes clear in a respectful manner. This is not your Life's Only Chance For Sex.
posted by Sidhedevil at 1:29 PM on June 30, 2009 [4 favorites]
No on the calling her.
Honestly, I know that we all go on about men making assumptions about sexual boundaries but this is a situation in which it's OK to assume that she's perfectly capable of making hers known if she really doesn't want her boob touched, clit licked, vagina fingered or whatever ("making out" clearly means something very different to what I thought - I always thought it meant foreplay kind of stuff that definitely involved touching erogenous zones and genitalia).
A casual hook-up might not be a good training ground for you. Maybe it would be better to find someone you like as a person and let the physical intimacy progress to sexual intimacy in a more organic fashion. I'm a bit concerned that if you go the one night stand route, you may encounter a woman who will shatter your ego in a really unkind way, and that's not going to increase your confidence. Most women looking for hook-ups aren't total bitches who'll go for the jugular if the sex isn't totally awesome, but some are - don't set yourself up to become the prey of those women.
posted by Lolie at 1:34 PM on June 30, 2009
Honestly, I know that we all go on about men making assumptions about sexual boundaries but this is a situation in which it's OK to assume that she's perfectly capable of making hers known if she really doesn't want her boob touched, clit licked, vagina fingered or whatever ("making out" clearly means something very different to what I thought - I always thought it meant foreplay kind of stuff that definitely involved touching erogenous zones and genitalia).
A casual hook-up might not be a good training ground for you. Maybe it would be better to find someone you like as a person and let the physical intimacy progress to sexual intimacy in a more organic fashion. I'm a bit concerned that if you go the one night stand route, you may encounter a woman who will shatter your ego in a really unkind way, and that's not going to increase your confidence. Most women looking for hook-ups aren't total bitches who'll go for the jugular if the sex isn't totally awesome, but some are - don't set yourself up to become the prey of those women.
posted by Lolie at 1:34 PM on June 30, 2009
So, what I think this all boils down to is this: next time around, just whip it out.
posted by spilon at 1:39 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by spilon at 1:39 PM on June 30, 2009
So, what I think this all boils down to is this: next time around, just whip it out.
Personally, I think it's more fun if I'm the one who gets to whip it out, but someone had better be doing it!
posted by Lolie at 1:47 PM on June 30, 2009
I've walked in your shoes a few times, and I recommend not calling her. You had a swell time and got to roll around a little - chalk it up to stupid fun and move on. If she wants a piece of you, she'll show up to your local 'trivia night' again and give you the eye. If she doesn't, you still caught a thrill rubbing oil all over her back. Whee!
Everyone has different comfort levels, but it sounds to me like she was trying to get you to throw down with her. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but girls I know who go home alone with guys they don't know after a few drinks at the local bar are girls who get down. "When are you going to kiss me...?" Oh, yeah?
Rather than wonder how you screwed this up, I think it gives you a pretty good opportunity to probe the envelope of your own comfort level with this kind of thing. If she did want to get busy with you, maybe that kind of haste is not your thing. You drop a few clues in your post and subsequent comments that you are not the sort of guy who would be comfortable running around putting himself in lots and lots of people - which is perfectly fine. Don't get down on yourself for being a more reserved fellow than maybe you thought you were. There's nothing wrong with that, and anyway now you know.
But, man, never tell a half-naked girl lying in bed with you that she deserves someone better. That's a horrible self-cock block and just a shitty thing to say about yourself besides.
posted by Pecinpah at 2:02 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Everyone has different comfort levels, but it sounds to me like she was trying to get you to throw down with her. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but girls I know who go home alone with guys they don't know after a few drinks at the local bar are girls who get down. "When are you going to kiss me...?" Oh, yeah?
Rather than wonder how you screwed this up, I think it gives you a pretty good opportunity to probe the envelope of your own comfort level with this kind of thing. If she did want to get busy with you, maybe that kind of haste is not your thing. You drop a few clues in your post and subsequent comments that you are not the sort of guy who would be comfortable running around putting himself in lots and lots of people - which is perfectly fine. Don't get down on yourself for being a more reserved fellow than maybe you thought you were. There's nothing wrong with that, and anyway now you know.
But, man, never tell a half-naked girl lying in bed with you that she deserves someone better. That's a horrible self-cock block and just a shitty thing to say about yourself besides.
posted by Pecinpah at 2:02 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Maybe she just gets off on turning on younger men then denying them when they try to go all the way? Betty Blue Balls?
posted by WeekendJen at 2:23 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by WeekendJen at 2:23 PM on June 30, 2009
I think that now, today, you wish you had had sex with her - but I don't think you wanted to last night. She initiated the conversation, finagled the invite to your place, put on music, lay on the bed, asked you to kiss her, took off her clothes... Either you wouldn't recognize a green light if it lay on your bed and took off its clothes... or you just didn't want to go any further than kissing. And that's fine! I don't think you "screwed up" I think you did what you were comfortable with and now you wish you'd been braver - but c'est la vie. As someone said above, it's not like that was your Last Chance for Sex.
posted by moxiedoll at 2:27 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by moxiedoll at 2:27 PM on June 30, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also, I think I'm letting my lack of sexual experience show through my choice of diction and vocabulary. Which(lack of experience) also could have played a big part in last night's event. Or lack thereof.
Not to mention your username.
You're inexperienced, that's ok. Occasionally your inexperience will be a hindrance, like that night, occasionally it may work in your favor. But, it is where you are right now, and the sooner you can come to terms with that--and not let it bother you--the more experience you will have.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 2:42 PM on June 30, 2009
Not to mention your username.
You're inexperienced, that's ok. Occasionally your inexperience will be a hindrance, like that night, occasionally it may work in your favor. But, it is where you are right now, and the sooner you can come to terms with that--and not let it bother you--the more experience you will have.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 2:42 PM on June 30, 2009
I mean, c'mon.
Had she initiated something, however, I daresay I would have followed suit.
She initiated so hard.
In the event that you really did want to do more and just weren't sure how to act - the way things generally work when you don't know what the other person is up for is through a kind of mutual, gradual escalation. But it has to be mutual. She wants to kiss - so kiss away! If she takes her shirt off? Take off yours. Go ahead and move your hand toward where you want it to go, and if she says no or moves your hand don't freak out, just go back to whatever you were doing before. The main thing is, you aren't going get from sitting on the bed fully clothed to having sex unless you take action yourself - it's not going to happen by magic.
posted by moxiedoll at 2:45 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Had she initiated something, however, I daresay I would have followed suit.
She initiated so hard.
In the event that you really did want to do more and just weren't sure how to act - the way things generally work when you don't know what the other person is up for is through a kind of mutual, gradual escalation. But it has to be mutual. She wants to kiss - so kiss away! If she takes her shirt off? Take off yours. Go ahead and move your hand toward where you want it to go, and if she says no or moves your hand don't freak out, just go back to whatever you were doing before. The main thing is, you aren't going get from sitting on the bed fully clothed to having sex unless you take action yourself - it's not going to happen by magic.
posted by moxiedoll at 2:45 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
The whole comic book guy speak was for comic effect. Also, I sort of wanted the HiveMind to opine, nothing more than that, upon possible causes. To try to quantify human behaviour even if for a very small subset of interactions.
Um? You're still doing it.
posted by rokusan at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
Um? You're still doing it.
posted by rokusan at 3:53 PM on June 30, 2009 [1 favorite]
One rule of thumb that usually results in intercourse:
If potential partner is naked and on my bed, I get naked, too, on the bed.
Things usually work themselves out from there without much discussion:)
posted by Locochona at 5:32 PM on June 30, 2009
If potential partner is naked and on my bed, I get naked, too, on the bed.
Things usually work themselves out from there without much discussion:)
posted by Locochona at 5:32 PM on June 30, 2009
You sound like a considerate and gentle kind of guy. That's a good thing! And I don't see any problem with what you call your "comic book guy speak." I think it sounds kind of charming and playful, in fact, which is totally appropriate in this context. And there's nothing wrong with being inexperienced - that, too, can be charming as well. No sense in trying to hide it or be something you're not.
That said, I think there's a possibility this woman decided that you weren't that into her, and then perhaps tried to save face a little with the "you're too young" bit.
I mean, c'mon. As moxiedoll said, she initiated so hard.
She asked when you were going to kiss her, asked you to lie down next to her, etc. Your behavior in response was tentative enough (especially the keeping your clothes on part) that she probably started questioning whether you were really attracted to her, or if you were just kind of nervously going along with what she'd started because you weren't sure what else to do.
It sounds to me like she wanted an enthusiastic and confident response from you, rather than a lukewarm and self-deprecating one. I suspect that she wanted to hear that you found her utterly irresistible, not that she "deserved better" than you. Think about it: she willingly went home with you, asked you to kiss her, removed her clothes, etc. She thought you were hot. In essence, by telling her she "deserved better" than you, you were insulting her taste in men!
It's possible, of course, that there was something else going on here. I think her "you weren't thinking of getting laid, were you? Oh no, you're too young" thing was kind of passive-aggressive and annoying. She certainly could have (and should have) been more direct with you. Still, I suspect that underneath it all, she wanted to be assured that you wanted her. If you ever have an opportunity like this again, where you're being encouraged like this, I suggest that you tell and show the woman that you think she's the hottest thing ever...and see how she responds.
Good luck!
posted by velvet winter at 5:43 PM on June 30, 2009
That said, I think there's a possibility this woman decided that you weren't that into her, and then perhaps tried to save face a little with the "you're too young" bit.
I mean, c'mon. As moxiedoll said, she initiated so hard.
She asked when you were going to kiss her, asked you to lie down next to her, etc. Your behavior in response was tentative enough (especially the keeping your clothes on part) that she probably started questioning whether you were really attracted to her, or if you were just kind of nervously going along with what she'd started because you weren't sure what else to do.
It sounds to me like she wanted an enthusiastic and confident response from you, rather than a lukewarm and self-deprecating one. I suspect that she wanted to hear that you found her utterly irresistible, not that she "deserved better" than you. Think about it: she willingly went home with you, asked you to kiss her, removed her clothes, etc. She thought you were hot. In essence, by telling her she "deserved better" than you, you were insulting her taste in men!
It's possible, of course, that there was something else going on here. I think her "you weren't thinking of getting laid, were you? Oh no, you're too young" thing was kind of passive-aggressive and annoying. She certainly could have (and should have) been more direct with you. Still, I suspect that underneath it all, she wanted to be assured that you wanted her. If you ever have an opportunity like this again, where you're being encouraged like this, I suggest that you tell and show the woman that you think she's the hottest thing ever...and see how she responds.
Good luck!
posted by velvet winter at 5:43 PM on June 30, 2009
Response by poster: By the way, I have been a lurker for years, but only with this own personal conundrum do I realize how awesome it is to have other people chime in with support, advice and criticisms.
I have been thinking more about this. I can distill the entire proceedings it into an awesome sentiment espoused by the Dead Kennedys. I guess hermitosis came the closest to my own sense of things.
I missed cues that would have been evident to a social misfit, my brain switched into fantasy mode trying to bathe her in lavender oils. She was evidently less drunk than I, and I wouldn't move ahead from wet sloppy kisses. I was no good to her in that state and she was already undressed and in my bed, so did the best she could. Respond in kind to my wet sloppy kisses at 5 in the morning. I think she could tell the sailor was drunk.
Oh and this is how I write. I tend to be very formal in writing for some reason. I blame years of writing research papers. I assure you I do not talk like this. It's all "Yo! Where the bitches at?" when I speak.
posted by prufrock at 5:53 PM on June 30, 2009
I have been thinking more about this. I can distill the entire proceedings it into an awesome sentiment espoused by the Dead Kennedys. I guess hermitosis came the closest to my own sense of things.
I missed cues that would have been evident to a social misfit, my brain switched into fantasy mode trying to bathe her in lavender oils. She was evidently less drunk than I, and I wouldn't move ahead from wet sloppy kisses. I was no good to her in that state and she was already undressed and in my bed, so did the best she could. Respond in kind to my wet sloppy kisses at 5 in the morning. I think she could tell the sailor was drunk.
Oh and this is how I write. I tend to be very formal in writing for some reason. I blame years of writing research papers. I assure you I do not talk like this. It's all "Yo! Where the bitches at?" when I speak.
posted by prufrock at 5:53 PM on June 30, 2009
She did lead and I daresay you didn't follow. When someone gets naked in your bed, you follow suit. Better luck next time and no, don't call her. Too creepy.
posted by CwgrlUp at 6:04 PM on June 30, 2009
posted by CwgrlUp at 6:04 PM on June 30, 2009
Then, she says "You weren't thinking of getting laid tonight, were you?"
HELL, YEAH!
If you can say this playfully and with a real smile, it could get her laughing and then you're in. Nothing is happening without a change in mood / expectations, and humor especially if it's a little shocking is your only real chance at that. Then again, it could just creep her the fuck out. But, who cares at that point?
posted by BigSky at 7:58 PM on June 30, 2009
HELL, YEAH!
If you can say this playfully and with a real smile, it could get her laughing and then you're in. Nothing is happening without a change in mood / expectations, and humor especially if it's a little shocking is your only real chance at that. Then again, it could just creep her the fuck out. But, who cares at that point?
posted by BigSky at 7:58 PM on June 30, 2009
It's all "Yo! Where the bitches at?" when I speak.
Yeesh. Now that, I'm afraid, is not so charming. I'd take comic book guy speak over that any day.
posted by velvet winter at 8:58 PM on June 30, 2009
Yeesh. Now that, I'm afraid, is not so charming. I'd take comic book guy speak over that any day.
posted by velvet winter at 8:58 PM on June 30, 2009
So, I lean down and kiss her.
Keep kissing her. Run your hands over her body. Gauge her response as you brush over her breasts and ass. Take off your shirt, lie down next to her. Use your hands more. Don't say shit. Kiss her neck. Kiss her breasts. Don't say shit. Gauge her response as you take off her bra and softly bite her lip, neck, breast. Take off your pants. Spread her legs and get between them. Movement. More kissing. More not saying shit. Run your fingers down her stomach to her buttons and belt. Slowly unfasten. Kiss her hips. Put your thumbs in her beltloops and help her pull her pants off. Kiss. Movement. Appreciative moaning. No words.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:47 AM on July 1, 2009
Keep kissing her. Run your hands over her body. Gauge her response as you brush over her breasts and ass. Take off your shirt, lie down next to her. Use your hands more. Don't say shit. Kiss her neck. Kiss her breasts. Don't say shit. Gauge her response as you take off her bra and softly bite her lip, neck, breast. Take off your pants. Spread her legs and get between them. Movement. More kissing. More not saying shit. Run your fingers down her stomach to her buttons and belt. Slowly unfasten. Kiss her hips. Put your thumbs in her beltloops and help her pull her pants off. Kiss. Movement. Appreciative moaning. No words.
posted by Potomac Avenue at 6:47 AM on July 1, 2009
Appreciative moaning. No words.
No. No comic book guy speak. No self-cock-blocking words. That does not mean "no words." Words are often a very good, highly appreciated, social/sexual lubricant.
Bad words (in this context):
"Yo! Where the bitches at?"
"You deserve someone better"
"bathe [you] in lavender oils"
"I daresay I will follow suit"
"whip it out"
Good words (in this context):
"You're so sexy"
"I love the way you move"
"Oh that feels great"
"What do you want, baby?"
"That is hot"
"Oh God yes yes yes"
etc.
posted by notashroom at 12:48 PM on July 1, 2009
No. No comic book guy speak. No self-cock-blocking words. That does not mean "no words." Words are often a very good, highly appreciated, social/sexual lubricant.
Bad words (in this context):
"Yo! Where the bitches at?"
"You deserve someone better"
"bathe [you] in lavender oils"
"I daresay I will follow suit"
"whip it out"
Good words (in this context):
"You're so sexy"
"I love the way you move"
"Oh that feels great"
"What do you want, baby?"
"That is hot"
"Oh God yes yes yes"
etc.
posted by notashroom at 12:48 PM on July 1, 2009
A lot of responses in this thread are really good. But the only thing I have to contribute is that you should have been focused on what the worst that could happen would be by advancing: She could have said no and walked away. Next time instead of trying to be considerate, think of the worst that can happen and use that to embolden yourself. It can't be that bad.
posted by arimathea at 5:06 PM on July 1, 2009
posted by arimathea at 5:06 PM on July 1, 2009
A 35 year old woman came onto you at a bar, you hung out and had a great time, she used the hotel line on you, went home with you and laid on the bed half naked. If it's sex you want, and you can't/don't convert that scenario into sex, you need to recalibrate your I-may-get-laid-here meter because it's way off. It basically doesn't get any easier than that.
The possibility light should have started blinking as soon as she scooted closer to you at the bar. That's no guarantee but is how it can start. Each subsequent step should have made it blink faster. The hotel line? You're getting laid! And thens she's laying half naked in your bed, having essentially invited herself to your place, and you are wondering whether you should go to the spare room? You're getting laid! If you don't yet see things that way, then that's just not yet how you see them and no judgment is necessary. But you really can adjust your settings so that you get the go-for-it signal well before somebody's half naked in your bed.
If you don't want sex under those circumstances, that's fine. If you do, knock it out next time. Everybody else who has talked about the self confidence stuff is right.
Given the number of fish in the sea, something you might try next time you get the initial barstool scoot and she's somebody you think you'd like to have sex with, just say in your head that you're committed to getting her across the street into your bed and having sex. Go for it and don't look back. If anybody's going to hold back or hesitate or bail, let it be her. Recognize that you might not succeed and that that's OK. You can keep doing this with women you want until you succeed. Don't be afraid you'll appear too houndish. If a girl realizes you're going for it and she doesn't want it, she'll let you know with words or actions. If she might be into it but you come on too strong and that kills it, it'll be a learning experience and you'll try to be smoother next time. If you're worried that either of those is an offense, recognize that it won't be the first or last time a guy tries to sleep with the girl in question. You'll both get over it and you'll both be fine. But if you want it, commit to going for it, recognizing that you're as good as anybody.
As for the massage, that can be a nice foreplay thing in the right situation but just depends on the person. If you like doing that and are unsure whether it might have thrown things off, save it for afterwards next time. If it's going to go all cuddly anyway, that could fit nicely into that period.
posted by Askr at 2:24 PM on July 2, 2009
The possibility light should have started blinking as soon as she scooted closer to you at the bar. That's no guarantee but is how it can start. Each subsequent step should have made it blink faster. The hotel line? You're getting laid! And thens she's laying half naked in your bed, having essentially invited herself to your place, and you are wondering whether you should go to the spare room? You're getting laid! If you don't yet see things that way, then that's just not yet how you see them and no judgment is necessary. But you really can adjust your settings so that you get the go-for-it signal well before somebody's half naked in your bed.
If you don't want sex under those circumstances, that's fine. If you do, knock it out next time. Everybody else who has talked about the self confidence stuff is right.
Given the number of fish in the sea, something you might try next time you get the initial barstool scoot and she's somebody you think you'd like to have sex with, just say in your head that you're committed to getting her across the street into your bed and having sex. Go for it and don't look back. If anybody's going to hold back or hesitate or bail, let it be her. Recognize that you might not succeed and that that's OK. You can keep doing this with women you want until you succeed. Don't be afraid you'll appear too houndish. If a girl realizes you're going for it and she doesn't want it, she'll let you know with words or actions. If she might be into it but you come on too strong and that kills it, it'll be a learning experience and you'll try to be smoother next time. If you're worried that either of those is an offense, recognize that it won't be the first or last time a guy tries to sleep with the girl in question. You'll both get over it and you'll both be fine. But if you want it, commit to going for it, recognizing that you're as good as anybody.
As for the massage, that can be a nice foreplay thing in the right situation but just depends on the person. If you like doing that and are unsure whether it might have thrown things off, save it for afterwards next time. If it's going to go all cuddly anyway, that could fit nicely into that period.
posted by Askr at 2:24 PM on July 2, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
It is hard to get two people together on the same page. It is also very hard not to take it personally when it doesn't work out, but often in situations like this it truly "isn't you, its me."
posted by Ironmouth at 8:04 AM on June 30, 2009 [2 favorites]