Lunch with female friends other than your girlfriend is ok?
June 10, 2009 10:20 AM Subscribe
I have a girlfriend and my best friend is female. Should I feel guilty having lunch with my friend?
Me and my girlfriend have been talking lately. She really feels that the fact that I don't mention that I have lunch with my friend makes her a bit suspicious. We have both acknowledged that she can get a little jealous of my friend because we're close. I've been with my gf for 3 years now and I've known my friend for 20 years. Me and my friend have never been intimate and my gf knows her personally.
Now, she is asking me to inform her every time I go to lunch with my friend or any other female for that matter whether its a friend or a co-worker. I wouldn't ask the same of her, I would just trust her and believe that she wouldn't do anything to disrespect our relationship.
Part of me is saying I shouldn't give in to this request because I'd feel like I have to report what I'm doing or whom I spend my money on just to put her insecurity at ease. If I give in, what's next?
Another part of me wishes to want to make her feel at ease. I love the fact that she talked to me about what is bothering her and I really want to come to a solution. Not sure where to go from here.
Me and my girlfriend have been talking lately. She really feels that the fact that I don't mention that I have lunch with my friend makes her a bit suspicious. We have both acknowledged that she can get a little jealous of my friend because we're close. I've been with my gf for 3 years now and I've known my friend for 20 years. Me and my friend have never been intimate and my gf knows her personally.
Now, she is asking me to inform her every time I go to lunch with my friend or any other female for that matter whether its a friend or a co-worker. I wouldn't ask the same of her, I would just trust her and believe that she wouldn't do anything to disrespect our relationship.
Part of me is saying I shouldn't give in to this request because I'd feel like I have to report what I'm doing or whom I spend my money on just to put her insecurity at ease. If I give in, what's next?
Another part of me wishes to want to make her feel at ease. I love the fact that she talked to me about what is bothering her and I really want to come to a solution. Not sure where to go from here.
This is not a fair request. You reporting to her won't make her trust you. If she doesn't trust you, or feels she cannot trust you, she should not be with you. It's really not important whether she has reasons or not, or even if her reasons are valid. No trust = no relationship.
I have had this situation come up often because I am male but my two best/closest friends are female. I've always made this very clear very early to romantic girlfriends, and their understanding and acceptance of this is a deal maker/breaker for a relationship.
The fact she has been all right for three years but is introducing new 'rules' now would make me very uncomfortable, too. You should explain that this is unfair, remind her that it's not your business to seek reports on her lunches, and ask her to trust you. Then see what happens.
Hopefully she's realize she's being unreasonable.
posted by rokusan at 10:24 AM on June 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
I have had this situation come up often because I am male but my two best/closest friends are female. I've always made this very clear very early to romantic girlfriends, and their understanding and acceptance of this is a deal maker/breaker for a relationship.
The fact she has been all right for three years but is introducing new 'rules' now would make me very uncomfortable, too. You should explain that this is unfair, remind her that it's not your business to seek reports on her lunches, and ask her to trust you. Then see what happens.
Hopefully she's realize she's being unreasonable.
posted by rokusan at 10:24 AM on June 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
You're right -- it might be a slippery slope and giving into her insecurities might turn out to be the wrong move. But for now, even though she's over-reacting, since it seems she's come to you with her issues maturely, rather than attacking you like a hosebeast, means you can return the favor on this issue, especially if you explain to her that you're doing it to assuage her fears, not because you are doing something wrong.
If the slope starts slipping, deal with that then, but don't create the problem until it happens. Showing her how mature people secure in their relationships deal with issues might just be all the help she needs.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
If the slope starts slipping, deal with that then, but don't create the problem until it happens. Showing her how mature people secure in their relationships deal with issues might just be all the help she needs.
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:28 AM on June 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
I'm going to let the bias of past relationships come through here...
She wants to know when you hang out with female friends so she can instantly guilt you into canceling the plans. This way, your friends think you are a flake and stop hanging out with you and she stays in control over your life when you aren't around her.
Again, from past experiences I'd DTMF. A more reasonable person might talk to her about it, then DTMF after she flips out.
posted by Loto at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2009 [11 favorites]
She wants to know when you hang out with female friends so she can instantly guilt you into canceling the plans. This way, your friends think you are a flake and stop hanging out with you and she stays in control over your life when you aren't around her.
Again, from past experiences I'd DTMF. A more reasonable person might talk to her about it, then DTMF after she flips out.
posted by Loto at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2009 [11 favorites]
I'm certainly on your side, she's being paranoid.
But perhaps you can reflect on whether you can be giving her more reassurance of your devotion to her by making sure to compliment her more, tell her what you love about her, etc. After 3 years, maybe your attention to her isn't what it used to be. You might want to bring this up with her, if it's part of her sudden insecurity.
posted by lizbunny at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2009
But perhaps you can reflect on whether you can be giving her more reassurance of your devotion to her by making sure to compliment her more, tell her what you love about her, etc. After 3 years, maybe your attention to her isn't what it used to be. You might want to bring this up with her, if it's part of her sudden insecurity.
posted by lizbunny at 10:30 AM on June 10, 2009
I know that often the knee-jerk answer around here for these sorts of questions is DTFMA, but I am with rokusan on thinking this is weirdly controlling and needy behaviour. Suddenly being asked to file reports on whom I am eating a sandwich with would likewise chafe me, and it is not the kind of thing I would be dealing with for long, one way or the other.
Paul Newman once sagely observed that people stay married because they want to, not because the doors are locked.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:31 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Paul Newman once sagely observed that people stay married because they want to, not because the doors are locked.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 10:31 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
It seems to me that she is being unreasonable. I would never ask my boyfriend to do that, and I wouldn't accept it from him.
However, the following possible situation occurred to me. Perhaps, in the course of telling your girlfriend about your day, you do tell her when you have lunch with Bob, Jim, and Matt, any of your male friends, and perhaps you consistently fail to mention lunch with this and only this woman (best friend)? So you tell her everything you do except lunch with this best friend and so she is jealous...and she is jealous so you tell her everything you do except lunch with this best friend...and so forth.
This hypothetical doesn't extend well to her request that you tell her about contact with all females, though.
If this is happening and you are aware, it can aid your communication with your girlfriend. Just a thought.
posted by teragram at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
However, the following possible situation occurred to me. Perhaps, in the course of telling your girlfriend about your day, you do tell her when you have lunch with Bob, Jim, and Matt, any of your male friends, and perhaps you consistently fail to mention lunch with this and only this woman (best friend)? So you tell her everything you do except lunch with this best friend and so she is jealous...and she is jealous so you tell her everything you do except lunch with this best friend...and so forth.
This hypothetical doesn't extend well to her request that you tell her about contact with all females, though.
If this is happening and you are aware, it can aid your communication with your girlfriend. Just a thought.
posted by teragram at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Every time a question comes up about having friends of the opposite sex when you're in a relationship, the answer is always the same - you shouldn't feel guilty, you shouldn't give up your friends, and jealous partners are the bigger issue.
Why does your girlfriend feel so insecure? In all the three years you've been dating her, has she expressed similar demands on your behavior, or is it a sudden onset? Has she felt like this in previous relationships, is this a pattern? Have you done or said anything lately to make her feel more threatened by your friend?
You can't really make her trust you, not without her extending some effort to realize her fears are irrational. My boy and I both get that little moment of "Oh crap, what if..." panic (alas, t'is human), but for the most part it's really rare, and generally we trust each other and our commitment.
If she has some deep-seated fears, or if this stems from a larger problem previously in her life, perhaps a therapist might help..? It doesn't seem like she's behaving like a crazy-jealous-run-away-from-this person, so it might not be necessary. But if you've given her no reason to believe your friend of 20 years is anything more, she needs to get over this hurdle without making you report all your movements.
Try to get her to talk this out in more detail.
posted by Bakuun at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2009
Why does your girlfriend feel so insecure? In all the three years you've been dating her, has she expressed similar demands on your behavior, or is it a sudden onset? Has she felt like this in previous relationships, is this a pattern? Have you done or said anything lately to make her feel more threatened by your friend?
You can't really make her trust you, not without her extending some effort to realize her fears are irrational. My boy and I both get that little moment of "Oh crap, what if..." panic (alas, t'is human), but for the most part it's really rare, and generally we trust each other and our commitment.
If she has some deep-seated fears, or if this stems from a larger problem previously in her life, perhaps a therapist might help..? It doesn't seem like she's behaving like a crazy-jealous-run-away-from-this person, so it might not be necessary. But if you've given her no reason to believe your friend of 20 years is anything more, she needs to get over this hurdle without making you report all your movements.
Try to get her to talk this out in more detail.
posted by Bakuun at 10:35 AM on June 10, 2009
inform her every time I go to lunch with my friend or any other female
Is this so hard to do?
I wouldn't ask the same of her, I would just trust her and believe that she wouldn't do anything to disrespect our relationship.
Different strokes for different folks. It might just be that she doesn't like surprises. Give her the benefit of the doubt and provide what she needs to feel comfortable.
posted by MiffyCLB at 10:36 AM on June 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
Is this so hard to do?
I wouldn't ask the same of her, I would just trust her and believe that she wouldn't do anything to disrespect our relationship.
Different strokes for different folks. It might just be that she doesn't like surprises. Give her the benefit of the doubt and provide what she needs to feel comfortable.
posted by MiffyCLB at 10:36 AM on June 10, 2009 [6 favorites]
Of course having lunch with your friend is ok.
I go out to dinner with a platonic male friend once a week. My boyfriend couldn't care less. I do give him a heads up when I'm hitting the bars with my friend, because we live together and it's considerate to mention when I'll be home.
"Mayonnaise and I are going to Dollar Grilled Cheese Night after work tonight, so I'll be home when he drops me off afterward, 'K?"
If he started moping about it or guilt-tripping me or not trusting that I have absolutely no interest in having sex with my friend, then, that would be a different story.
posted by Juliet Banana at 10:37 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I go out to dinner with a platonic male friend once a week. My boyfriend couldn't care less. I do give him a heads up when I'm hitting the bars with my friend, because we live together and it's considerate to mention when I'll be home.
"Mayonnaise and I are going to Dollar Grilled Cheese Night after work tonight, so I'll be home when he drops me off afterward, 'K?"
If he started moping about it or guilt-tripping me or not trusting that I have absolutely no interest in having sex with my friend, then, that would be a different story.
posted by Juliet Banana at 10:37 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Her request is unreasonable.
I'm nevertheless curious--do you two generally discuss your respective days in the evening? Not that you owe her a phone call prior to each lunch with your friend, but at the end of the day, do you generally talk about what happened, who you saw, etc.? Giving her a huge, and probably over-generous, benefit of the doubt, might it be that she feels that the two of you are sort of... out of sync? Do the two of you make a point of date nights or weekend lunches together? Do you spend more time at lunches/outings with friends than with her? I'm not suspicious if my husband spends time with female friends, but I'm sure I'd be annoyed if he were spending lots of time with friends (male or female) and only seeing me at home. Again, not trying to justify jealous and unfair behavior, but that came to mind as a possibly-sane reason that could possibly be behind the admittedly unreasonable request.
posted by Meg_Murry at 10:38 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm nevertheless curious--do you two generally discuss your respective days in the evening? Not that you owe her a phone call prior to each lunch with your friend, but at the end of the day, do you generally talk about what happened, who you saw, etc.? Giving her a huge, and probably over-generous, benefit of the doubt, might it be that she feels that the two of you are sort of... out of sync? Do the two of you make a point of date nights or weekend lunches together? Do you spend more time at lunches/outings with friends than with her? I'm not suspicious if my husband spends time with female friends, but I'm sure I'd be annoyed if he were spending lots of time with friends (male or female) and only seeing me at home. Again, not trying to justify jealous and unfair behavior, but that came to mind as a possibly-sane reason that could possibly be behind the admittedly unreasonable request.
posted by Meg_Murry at 10:38 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ask her if she would like you to report everytime you interact with your male friends. If she's okay with you having lunch with the same sex friends, then she should be okay with you having lunch with opposite sex friends. Friends are friends, regardless of gender. Does she have any male friends? I've noticed that a number of my female friends who are oddly jealous don't have any male friends that they don't want to date. Therefore it's hard for them to understand why you would have friends of the opposite sex.
I am curious though, how you fail to mention you had lunch with a friend. In my world, I'm constantly telling my boyfriend about my day and mentioning that I went golfing with Guybuddy#1 or had lunch with Girlbuddy#2 or that Guybuddy#2 called and had this really funny story about his dog. And he does the same with me. We just share. But we're also still in that obnoxious honeymoon phase of the relationship.
posted by teleri025 at 10:39 AM on June 10, 2009
I am curious though, how you fail to mention you had lunch with a friend. In my world, I'm constantly telling my boyfriend about my day and mentioning that I went golfing with Guybuddy#1 or had lunch with Girlbuddy#2 or that Guybuddy#2 called and had this really funny story about his dog. And he does the same with me. We just share. But we're also still in that obnoxious honeymoon phase of the relationship.
posted by teleri025 at 10:39 AM on June 10, 2009
We women can be jealous creatures, plain and simple. Sometimes we can't help but act irrationally -- what's worse is when we know we're acting irrationally but can't seem to stop ourselves. But she sees you and your best friend going off and doing things like lunch together, and she's not a part of it, and it bothers her. If there's a more-recent increase in the frequency of these lunches with your friend, she may just assume the worst.
Maybe you need to should invite your girlfriend to hang out with you and your friend on occasion, and let her see that it's friendship, plain and simple. Admittedly, this could backfire if she's super crazy and insecure for whatever reason, because she could try and read too much into things. But I think including her [if possible] may be the way to go.
Or, just try mentioning your lunches in passing, but do it in a way that lets you know that your mind and heart are still with her: 'oh, hey, Best Friend and I had lunch today, we went to that new place down the street and they had a really great [whatever], and I thought of how much you would like it, and I'd like to take you sometime.'
posted by alynnk at 10:40 AM on June 10, 2009 [9 favorites]
Maybe you need to should invite your girlfriend to hang out with you and your friend on occasion, and let her see that it's friendship, plain and simple. Admittedly, this could backfire if she's super crazy and insecure for whatever reason, because she could try and read too much into things. But I think including her [if possible] may be the way to go.
Or, just try mentioning your lunches in passing, but do it in a way that lets you know that your mind and heart are still with her: 'oh, hey, Best Friend and I had lunch today, we went to that new place down the street and they had a really great [whatever], and I thought of how much you would like it, and I'd like to take you sometime.'
posted by alynnk at 10:40 AM on June 10, 2009 [9 favorites]
I think your instincts to try to put her mind at ease are good, but I'm not convinced that giving in to her demands are the best way to do it. Something else may be going on, and doing things this way may just tackle a symptom rather than the whole problem (i.e., if she still feels insecure for some reason, then something else will be what she pins it on later...) Is this indeed just a new thing, or has she always been uncomfortable and you're just finding out now? Is there maybe something different about you lately (maybe you actually have been mentioning your lunches to your girlfriend all along without noticing you did, and now you've stopped suddenly)?
I would have a fact-finding heart-to-heart with her about this. Rather than just telling her that it's unfair to ask this of you -- which it kind of is, but still -- start with the fact that you really are grateful she spoke up, and emphasize that you want to help ease her mind. But -- you just aren't 100% sure what is going on here -- why this is coming up now after 3 years, and why she feels this specific act is the best way to put her at ease. There could be any number of reasons for her concern -- maybe she's heard some weird gossip. Maybe she really has been suppressing this all this time. Maybe she tells you that something else is going on these days. Maybe one time when all three of you went out, she noticed something your friend does -- which you didn't notice -- that makes her feel weird. Maybe she feels that you've cut back on the time you've spent with her.
And then the BOTH of you figure out what to do when you have more information about why she feels what she does. It's possible that she'll say something that makes you understand and think, "holy hell -- yeah, I get what you're feeling now, and yes I agree that this is the best thing to do." Maybe she'll tell you about something your friend has been doing to make her uneasy, and you can instead say "let me talk to Lucy about that instead and tell HER to cut it out." (One of my male friends had to do this with me once, I stopped what I was doing that bugged her, and all was well.)
You get the idea. If she reacts like you're trying to wiggle out of it, just stay calm, and keep the focus on "I want to help, I just want to understand the motivation and see if maybe we can together think of an even better idea instead."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:43 AM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I would have a fact-finding heart-to-heart with her about this. Rather than just telling her that it's unfair to ask this of you -- which it kind of is, but still -- start with the fact that you really are grateful she spoke up, and emphasize that you want to help ease her mind. But -- you just aren't 100% sure what is going on here -- why this is coming up now after 3 years, and why she feels this specific act is the best way to put her at ease. There could be any number of reasons for her concern -- maybe she's heard some weird gossip. Maybe she really has been suppressing this all this time. Maybe she tells you that something else is going on these days. Maybe one time when all three of you went out, she noticed something your friend does -- which you didn't notice -- that makes her feel weird. Maybe she feels that you've cut back on the time you've spent with her.
And then the BOTH of you figure out what to do when you have more information about why she feels what she does. It's possible that she'll say something that makes you understand and think, "holy hell -- yeah, I get what you're feeling now, and yes I agree that this is the best thing to do." Maybe she'll tell you about something your friend has been doing to make her uneasy, and you can instead say "let me talk to Lucy about that instead and tell HER to cut it out." (One of my male friends had to do this with me once, I stopped what I was doing that bugged her, and all was well.)
You get the idea. If she reacts like you're trying to wiggle out of it, just stay calm, and keep the focus on "I want to help, I just want to understand the motivation and see if maybe we can together think of an even better idea instead."
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:43 AM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm in a similar situation right now...I was told recently that I was not to chat with old high school friends (that don't have penises) online anymore. These are people that live thousands of miles away that I hadn't seen in person in 11 years. I told my GF that this ultimatum was ridiculous and meant that she doesn't trust me. You might guess (correctly) that this didn't go over so well.
I'll let you know what the right answer is any day now when I figure out what the deal is.
posted by schyler523 at 10:43 AM on June 10, 2009
I'll let you know what the right answer is any day now when I figure out what the deal is.
posted by schyler523 at 10:43 AM on June 10, 2009
Perhaps in the past she had a friend see you having lunch with your best friend and said to her "So, who was that gorgeous woman that your boyfriend was having lunch with the other day?" and she didn't know, and then felt stupid that she didn't know - which made her think that you were hiding it. Seems like this issue warrants more discussion between the two of you before anyone getting dumped.
posted by witchstone at 10:44 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by witchstone at 10:44 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Now, she is asking me to inform her every time I go to lunch with my friend or any other female for that matter whether its a friend or a co-worker.
So she can do... what, exactly? Keep a ledger? Prick her ears for mention of these girls in conversation? Know exactly whose names to search for in your text message history in the shower?
The jealousy she's experiencing is a toxic feeling that is limiting her ability to respect your privacy. And yes, partners need a healthy amount privacy from each other. I'm using the word "need" here. About privacy. If she proves to be ultimately unable to accept that, then you need to reconsider where you're headed together.
posted by hermitosis at 10:48 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
So she can do... what, exactly? Keep a ledger? Prick her ears for mention of these girls in conversation? Know exactly whose names to search for in your text message history in the shower?
The jealousy she's experiencing is a toxic feeling that is limiting her ability to respect your privacy. And yes, partners need a healthy amount privacy from each other. I'm using the word "need" here. About privacy. If she proves to be ultimately unable to accept that, then you need to reconsider where you're headed together.
posted by hermitosis at 10:48 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
MiffyCLB asks if it is too hard to report to the gf everytime you have lunch with a female friend. I'm surprised by this. If this pattern is established, what's next? OP has to report every time he has lunch with a female client or a business lunch with a female colleague. Seriously, this is absurd.
If OP hasn't given any indication that he's cheated on GF, why is she escalating this? Would she view the friend in the same manner if the friend was a cousin? A solid friendship of 20 years really is more like family than just a friend.
OP is an adult. GF is an adult. Jealously is not acceptable. Controlling behavior is not acceptable.
posted by onhazier at 10:54 AM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
If OP hasn't given any indication that he's cheated on GF, why is she escalating this? Would she view the friend in the same manner if the friend was a cousin? A solid friendship of 20 years really is more like family than just a friend.
OP is an adult. GF is an adult. Jealously is not acceptable. Controlling behavior is not acceptable.
posted by onhazier at 10:54 AM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
I wonder if she isn't talking to someone who is perhaps putting ideas in her head, or making her feel like she "should" be checking up on you. Perhaps some friend who is not cool with men having female friends, and who thinks it's her job to keep a tight leash? After 3 years, it seems strange that she would start asking for this out of the blue. Or else there is behavior on your part that she is interpreting as being untrustworthy?
I think it's important to talk to her and ask her to be honest as to why she is asking this of you at this stage. It's possible you could calm her fears, or counter any shady ideas someone close to her might be planting in her.
If that goes nowhere, you have some decisions to make. No one can tell you whether to give in or not, you have to trust your gut as to what the right thing to do is. But before you do that, you need to know her side of the story as fully as possible so you can try to understand her motivations. That should help you make a decision.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:55 AM on June 10, 2009
I think it's important to talk to her and ask her to be honest as to why she is asking this of you at this stage. It's possible you could calm her fears, or counter any shady ideas someone close to her might be planting in her.
If that goes nowhere, you have some decisions to make. No one can tell you whether to give in or not, you have to trust your gut as to what the right thing to do is. But before you do that, you need to know her side of the story as fully as possible so you can try to understand her motivations. That should help you make a decision.
posted by DrGirlfriend at 10:55 AM on June 10, 2009
I think people are too quick to slam down the DTMFA button here. Yes, I agree that a) you should not have to "report" every social outing and b) you should not feel guilty for having lunch with your friend.
Coming from the other side, however, I was once in a position where I felt I had to state aloud to a boyfriend that I'd prefer to know if he was out with a certain female friend entirely because he never mentioned it, and it began to feel as if he were hiding these outings from me for some reason. I was a little insecure, but manageably so, before -- his failure to disclose that he was seeing this friend made me exponentially more so, even though (it soon became clear) he wasn't doing it intentionally. Just the fact that we communicated about these insecurities (rather than stuffing them down because they were "ugly" ideas) and that he was willing to indulge me (knowing that it was irrational) -- and that's what it was, an indulgence -- made me feel much more secure about the situation almost immediately. And then it ceased to be a problem. I didn't ask about it any more, and he didn't feel pressured. It was just knowing that he valued my feelings enough to try to accommodate me, whether he felt he was "right" or not, that solved the issue.
I, personally, would advocate that you attempt to work with her to some degree -- making it clear that you don't feel there is anything to disclose, but if it will make her feel better you're willing to be more communicative about your plans. Unless there are other hot-button issues that lead you to believe she is a crazy, controlling nutcase (as some other posters have insinuated), my guess is that she is simply suffering a little insecurity over this other woman's importance to you (20 years!) and just needs some gesture on your part to show that you are willing to prioritize her needs in the relationship.
posted by tigerbelly at 11:05 AM on June 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
Coming from the other side, however, I was once in a position where I felt I had to state aloud to a boyfriend that I'd prefer to know if he was out with a certain female friend entirely because he never mentioned it, and it began to feel as if he were hiding these outings from me for some reason. I was a little insecure, but manageably so, before -- his failure to disclose that he was seeing this friend made me exponentially more so, even though (it soon became clear) he wasn't doing it intentionally. Just the fact that we communicated about these insecurities (rather than stuffing them down because they were "ugly" ideas) and that he was willing to indulge me (knowing that it was irrational) -- and that's what it was, an indulgence -- made me feel much more secure about the situation almost immediately. And then it ceased to be a problem. I didn't ask about it any more, and he didn't feel pressured. It was just knowing that he valued my feelings enough to try to accommodate me, whether he felt he was "right" or not, that solved the issue.
I, personally, would advocate that you attempt to work with her to some degree -- making it clear that you don't feel there is anything to disclose, but if it will make her feel better you're willing to be more communicative about your plans. Unless there are other hot-button issues that lead you to believe she is a crazy, controlling nutcase (as some other posters have insinuated), my guess is that she is simply suffering a little insecurity over this other woman's importance to you (20 years!) and just needs some gesture on your part to show that you are willing to prioritize her needs in the relationship.
posted by tigerbelly at 11:05 AM on June 10, 2009 [7 favorites]
Your question is a little vague. You use terms like "inform" and "report" which definitely have negative connotations, but still aren't completely clear. What do you mean by those words? Does your girlfriend want some sort of report ahead of time as to whom you're lunching with and a bulleted list of topics that came up? Or would she just like to know what you did during the day when you come home after work?
One of those requests is reasonable, the other is unreasonable. The answer to your question depends entirely on which variation or insecurity you're dealing with. Telling her about your day and mentioning in passing your lunches with your friend is a reasonable way to assuage her fears and make her feel included in your life, especially if you mention something that reminded you of her during the day. Having to report to your girlfriend when you would like to have lunch with a friend so she can try to talk you out of it veers way over into controlling territory.
posted by booknerd at 11:07 AM on June 10, 2009
One of those requests is reasonable, the other is unreasonable. The answer to your question depends entirely on which variation or insecurity you're dealing with. Telling her about your day and mentioning in passing your lunches with your friend is a reasonable way to assuage her fears and make her feel included in your life, especially if you mention something that reminded you of her during the day. Having to report to your girlfriend when you would like to have lunch with a friend so she can try to talk you out of it veers way over into controlling territory.
posted by booknerd at 11:07 AM on June 10, 2009
I wonder if she isn't talking to someone who is perhaps putting ideas in her head, or making her feel like she "should" be checking up on you.
More like she just believes what she sees on TV and in the movies a little too much.
posted by hermitosis at 11:08 AM on June 10, 2009
More like she just believes what she sees on TV and in the movies a little too much.
posted by hermitosis at 11:08 AM on June 10, 2009
Here are a couple of things that come to mind:
These "Is my significant other being incredibly unreasonable?" questions often skew so heavily in the direction of the asker's perspective that the actual question being asked is "Could everyone please chime in and agree with me on this one?" I'm not saying that's what's happening here, exactly, but what strikes me is that there's a difference between asking "Should I feel guilty about having lunch with my friend?" and asking "Should I give in to my girlfriend's weird and controlling request?"
No, obviously, you shouldn't feel guilty about having lunch with your friend, as long as there's nothing to feel guilty about. Stick with me here for a minute: What sorts of details about your day do you normally share with your girlfriend? Do you regularly mention the lunch dates that you have with dudes? Do you find yourself purposely *not* telling your girlfriend about social events that involve women for some reason? Are you protective of your long-standing older friendship in a way that excludes your girlfriend in an emotional sense? These questions are annoyingly vague, I know, and I don't mean to suggest that you've done anything wrong, at all, in this scenario, but I am suggesting that your girlfriend might be picking up on some dynamic in your relationship that she can't articulate in terms other than "I need more information about something."
I say this especially because you've mentioned that you love the fact that she's talking to you about what's bothering her, and that's really, really awesome. If you can hang on to that openness on your part, and be honest about your own (completely hypothetical) responsibility in this situation, then you'll have a clearer sense of what's going on. You can then say to your girlfriend, with a free conscience: "it really bothers me that you're asking this of me - I'd never ask you the same thing because I trust you" OR "no problem - here's what I did today, and here's who I saw at lunch. How was your day?"
posted by Hellgirl at 11:09 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
These "Is my significant other being incredibly unreasonable?" questions often skew so heavily in the direction of the asker's perspective that the actual question being asked is "Could everyone please chime in and agree with me on this one?" I'm not saying that's what's happening here, exactly, but what strikes me is that there's a difference between asking "Should I feel guilty about having lunch with my friend?" and asking "Should I give in to my girlfriend's weird and controlling request?"
No, obviously, you shouldn't feel guilty about having lunch with your friend, as long as there's nothing to feel guilty about. Stick with me here for a minute: What sorts of details about your day do you normally share with your girlfriend? Do you regularly mention the lunch dates that you have with dudes? Do you find yourself purposely *not* telling your girlfriend about social events that involve women for some reason? Are you protective of your long-standing older friendship in a way that excludes your girlfriend in an emotional sense? These questions are annoyingly vague, I know, and I don't mean to suggest that you've done anything wrong, at all, in this scenario, but I am suggesting that your girlfriend might be picking up on some dynamic in your relationship that she can't articulate in terms other than "I need more information about something."
I say this especially because you've mentioned that you love the fact that she's talking to you about what's bothering her, and that's really, really awesome. If you can hang on to that openness on your part, and be honest about your own (completely hypothetical) responsibility in this situation, then you'll have a clearer sense of what's going on. You can then say to your girlfriend, with a free conscience: "it really bothers me that you're asking this of me - I'd never ask you the same thing because I trust you" OR "no problem - here's what I did today, and here's who I saw at lunch. How was your day?"
posted by Hellgirl at 11:09 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
she can get a little jealous of my friend because we're close.
This is the important sentence to me. What type of closeness do you exhibit with your friend that your gf feels she is missing out on? Conversation and emotional intimacy can deteriorate in long term relationships. Sometimes you're down to "How was your day?" "Fine, yours?" "Fine." "Want to watch TV?" "Sure." It's easier to talk to friends than romantic partners about certain things because there's not the same type of emotional attachment. This friend of 20 years probably knows you better than your girlfriend, and your girlfriend knows it. I'd bet dollars to donuts that's what she's really jealous of.
I doubt your girlfriend thinks you're literally, physically cheating on her, but she sounds like she's having a reaction to some perceived distancing by you. You CAN just put your foot down and tell her she's being unreasonable, but your relationship is not going to be improved any. If you want to stay in the relationship, find out what need is not being met, and if you can provide it. If not, she's either got to meet it another way, or you two are destined to break up.
posted by desjardins at 11:10 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
This is the important sentence to me. What type of closeness do you exhibit with your friend that your gf feels she is missing out on? Conversation and emotional intimacy can deteriorate in long term relationships. Sometimes you're down to "How was your day?" "Fine, yours?" "Fine." "Want to watch TV?" "Sure." It's easier to talk to friends than romantic partners about certain things because there's not the same type of emotional attachment. This friend of 20 years probably knows you better than your girlfriend, and your girlfriend knows it. I'd bet dollars to donuts that's what she's really jealous of.
I doubt your girlfriend thinks you're literally, physically cheating on her, but she sounds like she's having a reaction to some perceived distancing by you. You CAN just put your foot down and tell her she's being unreasonable, but your relationship is not going to be improved any. If you want to stay in the relationship, find out what need is not being met, and if you can provide it. If not, she's either got to meet it another way, or you two are destined to break up.
posted by desjardins at 11:10 AM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
I think Loto is a little overreacting, to say the least.
Yes, your girlfriend can be on the path to crazyland. Or she could be going through an insecure phase (we girls do that for absolutely no good reason), or, as alynnk said, your gf might think that you haven't been spending enough quality time lately so she got a little jealous over you having lunch with a friend if you guys don't get to do simple every-day stuff like that. So instead of just feeling like you're "informing" your gf about having lunch with a friend, just talk to her more about it as a casual part of your day... "I'm probably gonna have lunch with Best Friend today, then I have that really tough meeting after lunch, but do you want to go mini golf after work?.. what about you, what did you do today?" And definitely invite the gf along sometimes when you hang out with the best friend... if she acts jealous and posessive then, or refuses to hang out with you two then you know there's definitely a problem.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 11:16 AM on June 10, 2009
Yes, your girlfriend can be on the path to crazyland. Or she could be going through an insecure phase (we girls do that for absolutely no good reason), or, as alynnk said, your gf might think that you haven't been spending enough quality time lately so she got a little jealous over you having lunch with a friend if you guys don't get to do simple every-day stuff like that. So instead of just feeling like you're "informing" your gf about having lunch with a friend, just talk to her more about it as a casual part of your day... "I'm probably gonna have lunch with Best Friend today, then I have that really tough meeting after lunch, but do you want to go mini golf after work?.. what about you, what did you do today?" And definitely invite the gf along sometimes when you hang out with the best friend... if she acts jealous and posessive then, or refuses to hang out with you two then you know there's definitely a problem.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 11:16 AM on June 10, 2009
Best answer: I'm with the more moderate posters on this one. Here's why:
One of my best friends, we'll call her "Sally" loved and trusted her fiancé, er, "Donald", completely. Never questioned him when he spent time with his friend "Trixie". Didn't bat an eye when Donald confessed that he thought Trixie was falling in love with him. Encouraged Donald to be honest with Trix and to try to keep their friendship alive. Sally knew she could trust Donald, and she figured that when Trixie finally realized that Donald's love for Sally was true and that he would never be unfaithful, Trixie would get over him, and eventually they could revert to the comfortable platonic friendship of yore.
Two years later, while Sally was hunting through Donald's email for his TurboTax password as she filed his taxes (she and Donald frequently accessed each other's emails for this sort of purpose - no boundaries were being violated) Sally decided to look in a folder entitle "Random things" in the hopes that Donald had filed the password there. What Sally found instead were emails from Trixie, with subject lines such as "thanks for last night" and "can't stop thinking about you". Perhaps she shouldn't have opened those emails, but she had to know what those attachments were. Apparently, Trixie owned butterfly thong underwear. Sometimes she wore it. Sometimes she didn't.
Sally should have seen all those dinners with Trixie as warning signs that there was something wrong with her relationship. But she trusted Donald blindly. Look what it got her.
So, if you happen to be dating a woman who's had an experience like Sally's, here's the best thing you can do for her: assure her that you love only her, and that your friends are important to you but they don't interest you romantically. Let Sally know when you're having lunch with anyone, be it Patty or Betty or Fred. When she asks "How was your day?" resist the urge to keep your lunches from her. Say "Oh, Patty said the funniest thing today at lunch..." or "Betty's having a hard time at her new job..." Put Sally at ease. And, once in a while, invite Sally to join you and Betty and Patty and Fred for dinner or drinks. If you are open and relaxed about it, then she'll know she can be relaxed, too. And eventually she'll stop demanding reports on your whereabouts.
Or, if she turns into a raving lunatic and tries to cut you off from your friends, dump her.
But try to see her jealousy as fear rather than envy. Try to assuage her doubts and see if there's something currently wrong in your relationship that is causing a rift resulting in trust issues. Fix the source of the problem, not the symptom. And if all your openness and understanding and compassion get you nowhere, then leave that bitch in the cold.
posted by philotes at 11:18 AM on June 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
One of my best friends, we'll call her "Sally" loved and trusted her fiancé, er, "Donald", completely. Never questioned him when he spent time with his friend "Trixie". Didn't bat an eye when Donald confessed that he thought Trixie was falling in love with him. Encouraged Donald to be honest with Trix and to try to keep their friendship alive. Sally knew she could trust Donald, and she figured that when Trixie finally realized that Donald's love for Sally was true and that he would never be unfaithful, Trixie would get over him, and eventually they could revert to the comfortable platonic friendship of yore.
Two years later, while Sally was hunting through Donald's email for his TurboTax password as she filed his taxes (she and Donald frequently accessed each other's emails for this sort of purpose - no boundaries were being violated) Sally decided to look in a folder entitle "Random things" in the hopes that Donald had filed the password there. What Sally found instead were emails from Trixie, with subject lines such as "thanks for last night" and "can't stop thinking about you". Perhaps she shouldn't have opened those emails, but she had to know what those attachments were. Apparently, Trixie owned butterfly thong underwear. Sometimes she wore it. Sometimes she didn't.
Sally should have seen all those dinners with Trixie as warning signs that there was something wrong with her relationship. But she trusted Donald blindly. Look what it got her.
So, if you happen to be dating a woman who's had an experience like Sally's, here's the best thing you can do for her: assure her that you love only her, and that your friends are important to you but they don't interest you romantically. Let Sally know when you're having lunch with anyone, be it Patty or Betty or Fred. When she asks "How was your day?" resist the urge to keep your lunches from her. Say "Oh, Patty said the funniest thing today at lunch..." or "Betty's having a hard time at her new job..." Put Sally at ease. And, once in a while, invite Sally to join you and Betty and Patty and Fred for dinner or drinks. If you are open and relaxed about it, then she'll know she can be relaxed, too. And eventually she'll stop demanding reports on your whereabouts.
Or, if she turns into a raving lunatic and tries to cut you off from your friends, dump her.
But try to see her jealousy as fear rather than envy. Try to assuage her doubts and see if there's something currently wrong in your relationship that is causing a rift resulting in trust issues. Fix the source of the problem, not the symptom. And if all your openness and understanding and compassion get you nowhere, then leave that bitch in the cold.
posted by philotes at 11:18 AM on June 10, 2009 [13 favorites]
http://ask.metafilter.com/122218/Is-it-normal-to-cut-off-your-female-friends-for-the-sake-of-your-girlfriend
Hmmm...you previously wrote, "Admittedly, I've had to cut off almost all of my female friends ever since I decided to be serious with her." Really? This doesn't sound like something that's going to go away with a conversation. Maybe it's time to rethink which is more important, your girlfriend or your friends, some of whom are lifelong.
posted by December at 11:25 AM on June 10, 2009
Hmmm...you previously wrote, "Admittedly, I've had to cut off almost all of my female friends ever since I decided to be serious with her." Really? This doesn't sound like something that's going to go away with a conversation. Maybe it's time to rethink which is more important, your girlfriend or your friends, some of whom are lifelong.
posted by December at 11:25 AM on June 10, 2009
KateHasQuestions: I most definitely am but, as I said, I am very biased. An ex of mine had a habit of making a big deal out of my having female friends. It culminated in her forbidding me from driving my very intoxicated best friend home from the bar even though it would have been very dangerous (and very illegal) for said friend to operate heavy machinery. I both broke-up with the girlfriend and wrestled keys away from a drunk in under five minutes.
The kicker? Instead of following me in my car so I could go home with her, she punched me in the face.
Okay, now that I got that out of the way...
Talk to her immediately. You should be able to tell very quickly whether or not she is batshit insane or just feeling self-conscious and expressing it poorly. The latter can be easy to fix and usually involves being more attentive. The former ends with a broken nose. Good luck and god speed.
posted by Loto at 11:28 AM on June 10, 2009
The kicker? Instead of following me in my car so I could go home with her, she punched me in the face.
Okay, now that I got that out of the way...
Talk to her immediately. You should be able to tell very quickly whether or not she is batshit insane or just feeling self-conscious and expressing it poorly. The latter can be easy to fix and usually involves being more attentive. The former ends with a broken nose. Good luck and god speed.
posted by Loto at 11:28 AM on June 10, 2009
Also? This may have been covered in a comment or two previously, but: OP, it might not be you that it seems that your girlfriend is distrusting, it might be these other women that you know. Women such as coworkers that she doesn't know that may or may not have a thing for you,, because your girlfriend obviously thinks you're awesome, so why shouldn't all these other women that you know? and then it spills over into your friend time with Best Friend -- I know, I know, again with the irrational, but sometimes we just can't get out of our own heads.
Talk to her, talk this out, reassure her that you're with her for a reason, reminisce about some stupid little thing that you did that one time on that date you both really enjoyed. It'll help, I promise. [At least, it helps me when my boyfriend does the reassuring when I'm going through my own stupid girl batshit crazy phases.]
posted by alynnk at 11:28 AM on June 10, 2009
Talk to her, talk this out, reassure her that you're with her for a reason, reminisce about some stupid little thing that you did that one time on that date you both really enjoyed. It'll help, I promise. [At least, it helps me when my boyfriend does the reassuring when I'm going through my own stupid girl batshit crazy phases.]
posted by alynnk at 11:28 AM on June 10, 2009
Hmm. I didn't read all the responses so apologies if someone else addressed this.
First of all, I think having lunch with your female friend is A-OK. My boyfriend has three close friends who are girls, and if we lived closer he'd have lunch with them a lot. And that would be fine. One of my best friends is a guy, and likewise, if we were in the same town, we'd see each other plenty.
However. My boyfriend and I are generally quite open about our daily lives--if I went to lunch with my guy friend, he'd know about it, and if he went out with one of the girls, I'd know about it. Not because we feel like we need to keep tabs, but we'd say something like, "Oh, you won't believe what Joey told me about Sandra!" or whatever. It would come up. I mean, if I have lunch with my not-that-close girlfriends from work, he still hears about that. So of course he'd hear about my best friend.
If your girlfriend feels like you have not been honest with her, or are conveniently neglecting to mention entirely that you hung out with your best friend, I can see why she'd be a little jealous or wary. Perhaps my boyfriend and I natter on to each other more than other couples, but I wonder how one could just entirely neglect to mention something like this.
I don't think her request that you detail each and every lunch date who might wear a skirt is reasonable. I think you need to have some more conversations and explore exactly where her fears are coming from. Does she feel like you're closing her out of other areas of your life?
Upon re-reading, it appears that you are BUYING lunch for these ladies. Now THAT would be ringing some alarm bells for me as well. My boyfriend can go out to lunch with his friends all he wants, but if he starts picking up the tab for them (for any reason other than a birthday), that would start to make me uncomfortable. It seems like competition, somehow. Would your girlfriend be more comfortable if you weren't spending the money on these other girls?
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 11:29 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
First of all, I think having lunch with your female friend is A-OK. My boyfriend has three close friends who are girls, and if we lived closer he'd have lunch with them a lot. And that would be fine. One of my best friends is a guy, and likewise, if we were in the same town, we'd see each other plenty.
However. My boyfriend and I are generally quite open about our daily lives--if I went to lunch with my guy friend, he'd know about it, and if he went out with one of the girls, I'd know about it. Not because we feel like we need to keep tabs, but we'd say something like, "Oh, you won't believe what Joey told me about Sandra!" or whatever. It would come up. I mean, if I have lunch with my not-that-close girlfriends from work, he still hears about that. So of course he'd hear about my best friend.
If your girlfriend feels like you have not been honest with her, or are conveniently neglecting to mention entirely that you hung out with your best friend, I can see why she'd be a little jealous or wary. Perhaps my boyfriend and I natter on to each other more than other couples, but I wonder how one could just entirely neglect to mention something like this.
I don't think her request that you detail each and every lunch date who might wear a skirt is reasonable. I think you need to have some more conversations and explore exactly where her fears are coming from. Does she feel like you're closing her out of other areas of your life?
Upon re-reading, it appears that you are BUYING lunch for these ladies. Now THAT would be ringing some alarm bells for me as well. My boyfriend can go out to lunch with his friends all he wants, but if he starts picking up the tab for them (for any reason other than a birthday), that would start to make me uncomfortable. It seems like competition, somehow. Would your girlfriend be more comfortable if you weren't spending the money on these other girls?
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 11:29 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
I love the fact that she talked to me about what is bothering her and I really want to come to a solution.
Work with that feeling. As others have pointed out, DTMFA is not necessarily the correct way to respond to every time a relationship conflict comes up. She did the adult thing by talking to you about her feelings, and while her solution might not be a good one, it doesn't sound like she threw a screaming tantrum, demand that you break off contact with your close friend, or anything like that. Figure out what works for both of you, and be honest if something doesn't.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:29 AM on June 10, 2009
Work with that feeling. As others have pointed out, DTMFA is not necessarily the correct way to respond to every time a relationship conflict comes up. She did the adult thing by talking to you about her feelings, and while her solution might not be a good one, it doesn't sound like she threw a screaming tantrum, demand that you break off contact with your close friend, or anything like that. Figure out what works for both of you, and be honest if something doesn't.
posted by joyceanmachine at 11:29 AM on June 10, 2009
It's good that she's being open about it, but I agree with some others that this is less about honesty than control, i.e. she's jealous and trying to guilt you into giving up lunch with the female friend.
As both a GF and as the female friend of many attached males, I have to say that this is *her* problem. You having lunch with a friend is not cause for pre-emptive apologetic disclosure. It's never even occurred to me to give my BF advance notice of my lunch plans, and certainly I don't ask him for his.
What you need to talk about with your GF is not whether or not you can have lunch with your female friend, but what's going on with her and/or between the two of you that is making her feel insecure. Because that's the root of jealousy - the feeling that there's a chance, however small, that the friend might have something she doesn't and that might make the friend appeal to you more than her.
posted by Billegible at 11:40 AM on June 10, 2009
As both a GF and as the female friend of many attached males, I have to say that this is *her* problem. You having lunch with a friend is not cause for pre-emptive apologetic disclosure. It's never even occurred to me to give my BF advance notice of my lunch plans, and certainly I don't ask him for his.
What you need to talk about with your GF is not whether or not you can have lunch with your female friend, but what's going on with her and/or between the two of you that is making her feel insecure. Because that's the root of jealousy - the feeling that there's a chance, however small, that the friend might have something she doesn't and that might make the friend appeal to you more than her.
posted by Billegible at 11:40 AM on June 10, 2009
If she's jealous about one specific person, I think it's OK if she wants to know when you hang out with that person. The fact that she wants to be told every time you hang out with any female crosses the line with me.
posted by PFL at 11:49 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by PFL at 11:49 AM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
Actually, knowing about your other AskMefi question, I'm sliding over to the DTMF crowd. She's controlling, possessive, and is applying controls to you that she feels no need to respect herself... you had the answer to this question on your last post and it seems you chose to continue on regardless.... surely the fact that the SAME issues has come up AGAIN is a sign that this is not a good relationship for you?
posted by Billegible at 12:03 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Billegible at 12:03 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
You are not being 100% honest here.
Look, December linked to your question last month about the same thing. Here it is again. The question looks the same, until I scroll to see the follow-up posts.
Facts you provided last time, but left out this time:
1. You lie to her about the lunches.
2. You've snooped on her phone.
3. In snooping, you found that she sends naked photos to her ex, and he sends naked pictures of himself, with text that is invitations to sleep together.
You two are a mess. I don't think you should dump her because of the lunch thing, I think you should dump her because you two are not working out.
The answer you marked as best last month is still the best answer. All of it.
posted by Houstonian at 12:11 PM on June 10, 2009 [27 favorites]
Look, December linked to your question last month about the same thing. Here it is again. The question looks the same, until I scroll to see the follow-up posts.
Facts you provided last time, but left out this time:
1. You lie to her about the lunches.
2. You've snooped on her phone.
3. In snooping, you found that she sends naked photos to her ex, and he sends naked pictures of himself, with text that is invitations to sleep together.
You two are a mess. I don't think you should dump her because of the lunch thing, I think you should dump her because you two are not working out.
The answer you marked as best last month is still the best answer. All of it.
posted by Houstonian at 12:11 PM on June 10, 2009 [27 favorites]
Wait, wait, wait. I just checked your posting history. I remember those questions. This is the same woman? Let's just say my previous advice is given with an eye towards a charitable & compassionate interpretation of a generally reasonable partner's unusual behavior. If this is the same woman, with the naked pics sent to an ex and the racy texts and your deliberate obfuscation of your plans, then all of that is out the window. Your dynamic with that woman isn't healthy, and the fact that you keep coming to Metafilter to ask & rework the same question about her jealous behavior and your response is both telling and worrisome.
On preview, 100% on board with Houstonian on this one.
posted by tigerbelly at 12:17 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
On preview, 100% on board with Houstonian on this one.
posted by tigerbelly at 12:17 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
inform her every time I go to lunch with my friend or any other female
Is this so hard to do?
Hmm... well, it is a little inconvenient. Perhaps some sort of electronic dog collar would be better, so that she could be kept up-to-date on your location at all times. Ideally, this would be combined with a sort of male chastity belt. Would she "trust" you then?
Adding in the new/old info from December/Houstonian now: I think you know this relationship is poison, and it sounds like you've known it for a long time already.
Are you using AskMe for answers, or to validate what you already know but are afraid to do?
Get out before you two damage each other any more. Nobody's winning, here.
posted by rokusan at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2009
Is this so hard to do?
Hmm... well, it is a little inconvenient. Perhaps some sort of electronic dog collar would be better, so that she could be kept up-to-date on your location at all times. Ideally, this would be combined with a sort of male chastity belt. Would she "trust" you then?
Adding in the new/old info from December/Houstonian now: I think you know this relationship is poison, and it sounds like you've known it for a long time already.
Are you using AskMe for answers, or to validate what you already know but are afraid to do?
Get out before you two damage each other any more. Nobody's winning, here.
posted by rokusan at 12:22 PM on June 10, 2009
Should I feel guilty having lunch with my friend?
No.
Ask her why she feels this way. Ask her if anything is bothering her now. Ask if her if anything has caused her to become concerned about any promises you have made to her. Let her explore her feelings and fears with you regarding being abandoned or betayed by you. Explain calmly that you are there for her and that you have not done either. Get her to agree that it is preferable that people trust one another in a relationship. After that, suggest that you make the following deal: She can ask you where you are going and that you agree to tell the truth unless you are preparing a surprise for her, in which case, you are allowed to lie. But she must agree not to ask you to provide some sort of warning everytime you are going to be encountering women.
The problem is that her focus on the cheating is likely a distraction for feeling something else, usually fear. So once you agree to pre-report, you will be subject to a bunch of ongoing negotiations covering the agreement or breaches. This is being done for relief for feelings that your gf does not want to feel. She must learn to address those feelings to make this go away.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:39 PM on June 10, 2009
No.
Ask her why she feels this way. Ask her if anything is bothering her now. Ask if her if anything has caused her to become concerned about any promises you have made to her. Let her explore her feelings and fears with you regarding being abandoned or betayed by you. Explain calmly that you are there for her and that you have not done either. Get her to agree that it is preferable that people trust one another in a relationship. After that, suggest that you make the following deal: She can ask you where you are going and that you agree to tell the truth unless you are preparing a surprise for her, in which case, you are allowed to lie. But she must agree not to ask you to provide some sort of warning everytime you are going to be encountering women.
The problem is that her focus on the cheating is likely a distraction for feeling something else, usually fear. So once you agree to pre-report, you will be subject to a bunch of ongoing negotiations covering the agreement or breaches. This is being done for relief for feelings that your gf does not want to feel. She must learn to address those feelings to make this go away.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:39 PM on June 10, 2009
AAAAHHH - when, oh when, will I learn to check posting history before I try to think through and then type out an earnest, good faith response to what I take to be an earnest, good faith question.
A million favourites for Houstonian's response.
posted by Hellgirl at 12:42 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
A million favourites for Houstonian's response.
posted by Hellgirl at 12:42 PM on June 10, 2009 [1 favorite]
You have asked (essentially) the same question before.
The answers will be the same this time around.
My two cents: you are in a deeply dysfunctional relationship. You need to do exactly two things: 1) end this relationship, and 2) grow up some more (preferably with the help of therapy) so that you can have a chance at entering into a functional relationship in the future.
Everything else is just wasting time -- both yours and ours.
posted by scody at 12:52 PM on June 10, 2009
The answers will be the same this time around.
My two cents: you are in a deeply dysfunctional relationship. You need to do exactly two things: 1) end this relationship, and 2) grow up some more (preferably with the help of therapy) so that you can have a chance at entering into a functional relationship in the future.
Everything else is just wasting time -- both yours and ours.
posted by scody at 12:52 PM on June 10, 2009
Instead of thinking of it as "reporting in," think of it as "common courtesy." What if all she wants to know is what's going on in your life? "Communication," not "checking up"? Man or woman is moot.
Unless you feel like you have to hide something, then you may be stepping past the line into emotional affair and it's time to re-evaluate your friendship.
posted by litterateur at 1:11 PM on June 10, 2009
Unless you feel like you have to hide something, then you may be stepping past the line into emotional affair and it's time to re-evaluate your friendship.
posted by litterateur at 1:11 PM on June 10, 2009
whom I spend my money on
In addition to the lying that Houstonian called out, you're spending money on other women on a regular basis? The above is a pretty disingenuous framing of the question. I don't think it's that unreasonable for her to be uncomfortable with this.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 1:26 PM on June 10, 2009
In addition to the lying that Houstonian called out, you're spending money on other women on a regular basis? The above is a pretty disingenuous framing of the question. I don't think it's that unreasonable for her to be uncomfortable with this.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 1:26 PM on June 10, 2009
Yeah, after re-reading your previous question and noting the discrepancies, I can't shake the feeling that this doesn't all add up. It's almost as if you're asking questions in a certain way to get answers that you can use as ammo--"see honey, these people say you're being unreasonable, too." And from the manipulative personalities and general chaos involved in your relationship as described by your previous question, this seems plausible.
My hunch is that you're giving a strongly skewed presentation of the facts. You've probably given her a lot more reason to be suspicious than you've let on here (in your previous question you said you've dated your best friend before, here you say you've never been intimate, as just one discrepancy among many). But it doesn't matter. This is clearly a bad relationship. There's no trust and, uh, you don't really seem to even like her that much. If what you wrote before is true, then she treats you just terribly, as well.
But this relationship is just a mess. What are you still doing in it? Seriously? I know everyone else has already said DTFMA, so I'll raise it one: DTMFA and stay away from relationships for at least a few months. Your girlfriend may be a total mess, but you're a little bit of a mess, too, and it wouldn't kill you to take a break from entangling emotional alliances for a little while.
posted by kprincehouse at 2:01 PM on June 10, 2009
My hunch is that you're giving a strongly skewed presentation of the facts. You've probably given her a lot more reason to be suspicious than you've let on here (in your previous question you said you've dated your best friend before, here you say you've never been intimate, as just one discrepancy among many). But it doesn't matter. This is clearly a bad relationship. There's no trust and, uh, you don't really seem to even like her that much. If what you wrote before is true, then she treats you just terribly, as well.
But this relationship is just a mess. What are you still doing in it? Seriously? I know everyone else has already said DTFMA, so I'll raise it one: DTMFA and stay away from relationships for at least a few months. Your girlfriend may be a total mess, but you're a little bit of a mess, too, and it wouldn't kill you to take a break from entangling emotional alliances for a little while.
posted by kprincehouse at 2:01 PM on June 10, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for everyone's time and thoughts. For those of you who read my previous post, yes I decided to work things out with her. For better or for worse. So we've wiped the slate clean you see. We don't talk about the past, there is no past. We're taking things one thing at a time and we deal with it. So this is the first thing we're trying to deal with.
I agree with a lot of posters here who say that I should mention when I have lunch with her so that she doesn't feel like I'm trying to hide it. I'm not trying to hide anything. I've told her that she's more than welcome to have lunch with her friends (male or female) because I expect the same freedom. We're both adults and should be able to know right from wrong.
Thanks for everyone's advice. It's been hard starting over, but I think we're doing good. I am aiming at tackling every issue right away and doing it so that we both can agree on the solution.
posted by salsa buena at 2:12 PM on June 10, 2009
I agree with a lot of posters here who say that I should mention when I have lunch with her so that she doesn't feel like I'm trying to hide it. I'm not trying to hide anything. I've told her that she's more than welcome to have lunch with her friends (male or female) because I expect the same freedom. We're both adults and should be able to know right from wrong.
Thanks for everyone's advice. It's been hard starting over, but I think we're doing good. I am aiming at tackling every issue right away and doing it so that we both can agree on the solution.
posted by salsa buena at 2:12 PM on June 10, 2009
We don't talk about the past, there is no past. We're taking things one thing at a time and we deal with it.
But you're dealing with the exact same issue! I retract my earlier comment and advise you to DTMFA.
posted by desjardins at 2:19 PM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
But you're dealing with the exact same issue! I retract my earlier comment and advise you to DTMFA.
posted by desjardins at 2:19 PM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
So we've wiped the slate clean you see.
No, you haven't. As evidenced by this question.
there is no past.
Yes, there is, because mutually pretending to ignore the past doesn't actually make the events and dynamics of the past disappear. As evidenced by this question.
I think we're doing good.
No, you're not. As evidenced by this question, written less than a month after your virtually identical previous question.
If you really want to work on this relationship in a meaningful way -- though that seems like a fool's errand at this point -- you should get into couples therapy. But the fact is, not all relationships can or should be saved. Otherwise we all would have married our high school sweethearts and lived happily ever after.
posted by scody at 2:34 PM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
No, you haven't. As evidenced by this question.
there is no past.
Yes, there is, because mutually pretending to ignore the past doesn't actually make the events and dynamics of the past disappear. As evidenced by this question.
I think we're doing good.
No, you're not. As evidenced by this question, written less than a month after your virtually identical previous question.
If you really want to work on this relationship in a meaningful way -- though that seems like a fool's errand at this point -- you should get into couples therapy. But the fact is, not all relationships can or should be saved. Otherwise we all would have married our high school sweethearts and lived happily ever after.
posted by scody at 2:34 PM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
We women humans can be jealous creatures, plain and simple.
Fixed that for you.
Also, what the fuck is up with this, OP?
So we've wiped the slate clean you see. We don't talk about the past, there is no past.
Amnesia is not the key to healthy relationships. Yes, constant dwelling about past offenses is also bad for relationships, but pretending the past doesn't exist is insane. Zombie Santayana is going to kick your ass for this alone.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:39 PM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Fixed that for you.
Also, what the fuck is up with this, OP?
So we've wiped the slate clean you see. We don't talk about the past, there is no past.
Amnesia is not the key to healthy relationships. Yes, constant dwelling about past offenses is also bad for relationships, but pretending the past doesn't exist is insane. Zombie Santayana is going to kick your ass for this alone.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:39 PM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Oh for pete's sake... dump the bitch already.
When people talk about "wiping the slate clean", they're talking about forgiving and forgetting past actions. But, we're talking about systematic, continuous behaviors. Consistently unacceptable behavior isn't improved by pretending the behavior is new. Your history with this woman is important to your ability to analyze the situation rationally and make decisions. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.
But, you won't follow the advice we're giving you. Your goal clearly isn't to live a happier life. For whatever internal reason, you're getting something out of all this drama.
posted by Netzapper at 3:21 PM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
When people talk about "wiping the slate clean", they're talking about forgiving and forgetting past actions. But, we're talking about systematic, continuous behaviors. Consistently unacceptable behavior isn't improved by pretending the behavior is new. Your history with this woman is important to your ability to analyze the situation rationally and make decisions. Past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior.
But, you won't follow the advice we're giving you. Your goal clearly isn't to live a happier life. For whatever internal reason, you're getting something out of all this drama.
posted by Netzapper at 3:21 PM on June 10, 2009 [3 favorites]
Giving this a "second chance" was a mistake. The relationship failed for a reason. This is a re-run of the same failures.
Insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results. If you continue to try and work out a relationship with this woman, you are insane.
Your collective issues are irreconcilable. FIN.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 4:40 PM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Insanity is doing the same thing twice and expecting different results. If you continue to try and work out a relationship with this woman, you are insane.
Your collective issues are irreconcilable. FIN.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 4:40 PM on June 10, 2009 [2 favorites]
Yup, I thought you must be that same guy who asked a very very similar question before.
The answer is still that she is being paranoid and you are right, barring omission by you in these questions. Wiping the slate clean doesn't mean jack if you start filling it back up again with the same behavior.
She is the one who needs to get a grip. Suggest to her therapy. She clearly needs it.
posted by ishotjr at 7:56 PM on June 10, 2009
The answer is still that she is being paranoid and you are right, barring omission by you in these questions. Wiping the slate clean doesn't mean jack if you start filling it back up again with the same behavior.
She is the one who needs to get a grip. Suggest to her therapy. She clearly needs it.
posted by ishotjr at 7:56 PM on June 10, 2009
We don't talk about the past, there is no past.
Sounds pretty unhealthy.
posted by jon_kill at 9:20 AM on June 11, 2009
Sounds pretty unhealthy.
posted by jon_kill at 9:20 AM on June 11, 2009
I have a girlfriend and my best friend is female. Should I feel guilty having lunch with my friend?
No. Obviously?
And your whole question, as with your last, is really structured to make your girlfriend sound crazy-ass-crazy. What's the point of asking questions you really already know the answer to.
posted by chunking express at 7:17 AM on June 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
No. Obviously?
And your whole question, as with your last, is really structured to make your girlfriend sound crazy-ass-crazy. What's the point of asking questions you really already know the answer to.
posted by chunking express at 7:17 AM on June 12, 2009 [1 favorite]
I can see how your girlfriend would be uncomfortable with this situation because I had a similar issue with my boyfriend recently.
I sat him down and told him that I was uncomfortable with him going on lunch dates all the time with female friends i have never met and never hear their name until a week after he has already met up with them.
Of coarse, he blew up on me and made me feel like a crazy woman.
I would never ask him to stop being friends with these women.
That would just be hypocritical because I have male friends too.
All i want from him is a little reassurance that I have nothing to worry about.
I just want to know more about how he knows them.
It would also make me feel less threatened if he invited me every once in a while.
I don't need to be there every time, but i will feel better once i meet her and have an ubderstatnding of how they react with one another.
posted by INeedOpinions at 10:57 AM on August 11, 2009
I sat him down and told him that I was uncomfortable with him going on lunch dates all the time with female friends i have never met and never hear their name until a week after he has already met up with them.
Of coarse, he blew up on me and made me feel like a crazy woman.
I would never ask him to stop being friends with these women.
That would just be hypocritical because I have male friends too.
All i want from him is a little reassurance that I have nothing to worry about.
I just want to know more about how he knows them.
It would also make me feel less threatened if he invited me every once in a while.
I don't need to be there every time, but i will feel better once i meet her and have an ubderstatnding of how they react with one another.
posted by INeedOpinions at 10:57 AM on August 11, 2009
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posted by dfriedman at 10:24 AM on June 10, 2009