I will be assimilated.
May 7, 2009 3:09 PM Subscribe
CyborgFilter: Do you know of a graduate program, or academic research lab, that offers a PhD related to cybernetics research?
I have a BS in compsci, and I've worked for several years now as a software engineer. For years I've been interested in ubiquitous computing, wearable computing, and man-machine interface. I've read a lot of neat research about using microelectrodes to control wheelchairs (and robot arms), about giving sight to the blind by tapping into the optic nerve, and about arrays of electrodes on the tongue providing sixth senses.
I'm looking for a PhD program that will prepare me to study the signals emitted from and received by nerves. I'm not especially interested in neurochemistry; it's the wrong scale. I'm definitely not interested in medicine or surgery. I'm hoping other people will produce the proper electrodes and sensors, and perform any necessary surgeries, for me. I basically want the knowledge of neurophysics necessary to apply my software engineering chops to interfacing machinery and human nerves.
I'd prefer a program with an engineering bent. I want to actually build (or have built) useful equipment at some point. So, I'd find it beneficial to have some training in the mechanics of the sensors. But, ultimately, it's the signals analysis that I want training in.
I have a BS in compsci, and I've worked for several years now as a software engineer. For years I've been interested in ubiquitous computing, wearable computing, and man-machine interface. I've read a lot of neat research about using microelectrodes to control wheelchairs (and robot arms), about giving sight to the blind by tapping into the optic nerve, and about arrays of electrodes on the tongue providing sixth senses.
I'm looking for a PhD program that will prepare me to study the signals emitted from and received by nerves. I'm not especially interested in neurochemistry; it's the wrong scale. I'm definitely not interested in medicine or surgery. I'm hoping other people will produce the proper electrodes and sensors, and perform any necessary surgeries, for me. I basically want the knowledge of neurophysics necessary to apply my software engineering chops to interfacing machinery and human nerves.
I'd prefer a program with an engineering bent. I want to actually build (or have built) useful equipment at some point. So, I'd find it beneficial to have some training in the mechanics of the sensors. But, ultimately, it's the signals analysis that I want training in.
I don't have a program to recommend, but you should be aware that a general course in "cybernetics"is probably not what you're after. The field of cybernetics relates only obliquely, if at all, to the nuts and bolts of human/machine interfaces.
posted by contraption at 3:30 PM on May 7, 2009
posted by contraption at 3:30 PM on May 7, 2009
Seems like you're looking for something like this.
For other labs, google around for biomedical engineering and maybe neuroprosthetics research.
posted by logicpunk at 3:51 PM on May 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
For other labs, google around for biomedical engineering and maybe neuroprosthetics research.
posted by logicpunk at 3:51 PM on May 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I do know that the term "cybernetics" doesn't really mean cyborgs, but rather the study of self-regulating machines. I'm looking for something like neurophysics, neurophysiology, computational neuroscience, neural coding, etc. But, these fields overlap... so, I'm looking for a lab that specifically does computational analysis of neural signals, and hopefully some mechanical design of neural sensing systems. Or, failing that, it would be helpful to know what kind of programs I should be looking for.
The neuroprosthetics stuff might be where I end up since they're studying what I want to, but I guess I don't have much interest in helping the disabled personally--I know, I'm an asshole. I'd rather develop super powers, and then let other, more philanthropic, folks repurpose it to help the disabled.
Keep 'em coming!
posted by Netzapper at 3:58 PM on May 7, 2009
The neuroprosthetics stuff might be where I end up since they're studying what I want to, but I guess I don't have much interest in helping the disabled personally--I know, I'm an asshole. I'd rather develop super powers, and then let other, more philanthropic, folks repurpose it to help the disabled.
Keep 'em coming!
posted by Netzapper at 3:58 PM on May 7, 2009
Search Google Scholar for terms related to what you want to study. Read the articles. Email the authors.
posted by k8t at 4:07 PM on May 7, 2009
posted by k8t at 4:07 PM on May 7, 2009
I recently saw a talk by this guy, who was doing some work of the kind you're interested in. I think you need to google things like "neural prosthetics" (and not, as contraption points out, cybernetics).
I'm hoping other people will produce the proper electrodes and sensors, and perform any necessary surgeries, for me. I basically want the knowledge of neurophysics necessary to apply my software engineering chops to interfacing machinery and human nerves.
Be aware that our understanding of the brain is extremely far from what it seems like you hope it will be -- it is nowhere near close to the point where someone can jump in and just start hacking the brain. Also, the surgeries and devices involved are extremely expensive and complicated; they are typically only done in extreme cases (the researcher I linked above was working with a locked-in patient), and there aren't enough that it would be easy to get access to one. So I think you might need to target research groups that are already working with patients that have implants. One reason that they are only done in extreme cases is that they just aren't actually that useful, compared to any kind of input device under the control of even ine finger. The patient the researcher I linked (IIRC) took months and months of training to be able to (with 70% or so accuracy) produce different vowel sounds reliably, and this is _good_. One of the innovations that researcher was talking about was that the implant doesn't drift/get damaged and have to be replaced every few months (because it doesn't actually go through the skull).
On preview, I suspect that the _only_ funding in this domain (i.e. where actual implants are involved) is for work with patients with some kind of disorder that prevents them from communicating in nearly all other ways. You won't be able to do this kind of work right now without some clinical application in mind. I would even be a little surprised if you could get IRB approval to do this kind of implantation for normals, the surgery is complicated (probably dangerous) and the payoff is extremely minimal. Also, I believe there is plenty of non-invasive work (using EEGs and so on) that might be much more practical to look into.
posted by advil at 4:10 PM on May 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm hoping other people will produce the proper electrodes and sensors, and perform any necessary surgeries, for me. I basically want the knowledge of neurophysics necessary to apply my software engineering chops to interfacing machinery and human nerves.
Be aware that our understanding of the brain is extremely far from what it seems like you hope it will be -- it is nowhere near close to the point where someone can jump in and just start hacking the brain. Also, the surgeries and devices involved are extremely expensive and complicated; they are typically only done in extreme cases (the researcher I linked above was working with a locked-in patient), and there aren't enough that it would be easy to get access to one. So I think you might need to target research groups that are already working with patients that have implants. One reason that they are only done in extreme cases is that they just aren't actually that useful, compared to any kind of input device under the control of even ine finger. The patient the researcher I linked (IIRC) took months and months of training to be able to (with 70% or so accuracy) produce different vowel sounds reliably, and this is _good_. One of the innovations that researcher was talking about was that the implant doesn't drift/get damaged and have to be replaced every few months (because it doesn't actually go through the skull).
On preview, I suspect that the _only_ funding in this domain (i.e. where actual implants are involved) is for work with patients with some kind of disorder that prevents them from communicating in nearly all other ways. You won't be able to do this kind of work right now without some clinical application in mind. I would even be a little surprised if you could get IRB approval to do this kind of implantation for normals, the surgery is complicated (probably dangerous) and the payoff is extremely minimal. Also, I believe there is plenty of non-invasive work (using EEGs and so on) that might be much more practical to look into.
posted by advil at 4:10 PM on May 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, every university in the world has PhD programs. So what you really need to do is find the lab that most excites you, based on their publications. You indicate that you've read a lot of neat research, so my suggestion is that you email the corresponding author, and ask them whether they would be interested in taking you on as a PhD student. You'll need to do a bit of background research on what the eligibility criteria are for each university/research organisation (they will be available on each university's website), because the research head that you will be contacting won't necessarily know those sorts of details.
PhD students are always popular, since they represent free labor (usually the university/government pays the salary, although industry-funded scholarships are also around). Which means, if you've got a reasonable academic record and fit the eligibility criteria, you have enormous freedom of choice.
Good luck!
posted by kisch mokusch at 4:15 PM on May 7, 2009
PhD students are always popular, since they represent free labor (usually the university/government pays the salary, although industry-funded scholarships are also around). Which means, if you've got a reasonable academic record and fit the eligibility criteria, you have enormous freedom of choice.
Good luck!
posted by kisch mokusch at 4:15 PM on May 7, 2009
You might be interested in Steve Mann's lab at the University of Toronto.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 5:42 PM on May 7, 2009
posted by sevenyearlurk at 5:42 PM on May 7, 2009
Google:
neuroengineering
translational neuroscience
computational neuroscience
BCI -- brain computer interfaces
Books:
http://www.amazon.com/Spikes-Exploring-Neural-Computational-Neuroscience/dp/0262681080/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241743991&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Theoretical-Neuroscience-Computational-Mathematical-Modeling/dp/0262541858/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241744007&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Dynamical-Systems-Neuroscience-Excitability-Computational/dp/0262090430/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241744052&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Recognition-Learning-Information-Statistics/dp/0387310738/ref=pd_sim_b_18
I'm doing something a little different, and there's much better people you could talk to, but I might be able to help a little bit. Feel free to MeFi mail.
It's hard to see the forest for the trees, but if you skim through people's publications to get a sense of what they're *really* doing, that can help. Also, keep in mind that lab websites are usually pretty outdated, sometimes by years. Lab X might be doing cool stuff now, so cool that they're too busy to put it on their website. Another thing to do is go to the NIH and NSF websites and do keyword searches on the grant databases. See who's got what. That doesn't always turn up much, but it's another thing to try.
posted by zeek321 at 6:02 PM on May 7, 2009
neuroengineering
translational neuroscience
computational neuroscience
BCI -- brain computer interfaces
Books:
http://www.amazon.com/Spikes-Exploring-Neural-Computational-Neuroscience/dp/0262681080/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241743991&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Theoretical-Neuroscience-Computational-Mathematical-Modeling/dp/0262541858/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241744007&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Dynamical-Systems-Neuroscience-Excitability-Computational/dp/0262090430/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241744052&sr=8-1
http://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Recognition-Learning-Information-Statistics/dp/0387310738/ref=pd_sim_b_18
I'm doing something a little different, and there's much better people you could talk to, but I might be able to help a little bit. Feel free to MeFi mail.
It's hard to see the forest for the trees, but if you skim through people's publications to get a sense of what they're *really* doing, that can help. Also, keep in mind that lab websites are usually pretty outdated, sometimes by years. Lab X might be doing cool stuff now, so cool that they're too busy to put it on their website. Another thing to do is go to the NIH and NSF websites and do keyword searches on the grant databases. See who's got what. That doesn't always turn up much, but it's another thing to try.
posted by zeek321 at 6:02 PM on May 7, 2009
Consider UC Berkeley - EECS Research Areas:
Biosystems & Computational Biology
Control, Intelligent Systems & Robotics
Carnegie Mellon:
Direct Brain Interface Project
Multiple universities and people referenced in this recent NYT article:
Monkeys Think, Moving Artificial Arm as Own
This particular subsection of the field is usually referred to as BMI or BCI. Any top tier research university will probably have some lab working in it... Standford, CalPoly, Penn, Harvard, MIT, etc, and each has their own specialty.
posted by sophist at 12:44 AM on May 8, 2009
Biosystems & Computational Biology
Control, Intelligent Systems & Robotics
Carnegie Mellon:
Direct Brain Interface Project
Multiple universities and people referenced in this recent NYT article:
Monkeys Think, Moving Artificial Arm as Own
This particular subsection of the field is usually referred to as BMI or BCI. Any top tier research university will probably have some lab working in it... Standford, CalPoly, Penn, Harvard, MIT, etc, and each has their own specialty.
posted by sophist at 12:44 AM on May 8, 2009
I'm a neurobiology student.
What you want is biomedical engineering. The University of Wisconsin has a very good program, and we have a few people who specialize specifically in neuroengineering.
posted by kldickson at 11:08 AM on May 8, 2009
What you want is biomedical engineering. The University of Wisconsin has a very good program, and we have a few people who specialize specifically in neuroengineering.
posted by kldickson at 11:08 AM on May 8, 2009
From what I know of the BME program at Wisconsin (I'm a science student, not an engineering student), it bends neither toward the biological side nor toward the engineering side, but integrates the two well.
posted by kldickson at 11:09 AM on May 8, 2009
posted by kldickson at 11:09 AM on May 8, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Señor Pantalones at 3:28 PM on May 7, 2009