London to Berlin by train - what is the fastest/cheapest route?
May 7, 2009 2:42 AM Subscribe
London to Berlin by train. The best option I've found is Eurostar to Paris then sleeper to Berlin for £250. This seems expensive. Are there faster/cheaper options?
Is there a reason why it must be by train? Easyjet will get you there for 30-40 pounds.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 2:50 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by the duck by the oboe at 2:50 AM on May 7, 2009
Response by poster: Yes, there is a reason: aeroplanes contribute to climate change.
posted by maryrosecook at 2:54 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by maryrosecook at 2:54 AM on May 7, 2009
You could bus/ferry it to Calais via Dover - National Express quotes £26 one-way all included for the bus and the ferry on June 9, the random date in the future I chose. Voyages-SNCF, the French rail booking site, quotes €67 for Calais to Berlin, with changes in Lille to the TGV to Paris, then the sleeper to Berlin in second class. The prices you might be seeing are probably for sleepers/couchettes; I assume the €67 is for a seat in second class.
The schedule looks like this:
0700 depart London Victoria coach terminus
1348 arrive Calais Ferry Port
(taxi? bus?)
1438 depart Calais Ville train station
1700 depart Lille Flandres
1802 arrive Paris Nord
(metro? stroll?)
2000 depart Paris Est
0850 arrive Berlin Spandau
The Voyages SNCF site is easy enough to use even if you don't speak French; the English version doesn't show all the deals, though, so follow Seat 61's page here on navigating it!
posted by mdonley at 3:03 AM on May 7, 2009
The schedule looks like this:
0700 depart London Victoria coach terminus
1348 arrive Calais Ferry Port
(taxi? bus?)
1438 depart Calais Ville train station
1700 depart Lille Flandres
1802 arrive Paris Nord
(metro? stroll?)
2000 depart Paris Est
0850 arrive Berlin Spandau
The Voyages SNCF site is easy enough to use even if you don't speak French; the English version doesn't show all the deals, though, so follow Seat 61's page here on navigating it!
posted by mdonley at 3:03 AM on May 7, 2009
So do trains, maryrosecook. You should bike and take a ferry across any water routes.
Actually, that would be a lot of fun, though I can't say I myself would be in terrific shape for that.
posted by Risiko at 3:04 AM on May 7, 2009
Actually, that would be a lot of fun, though I can't say I myself would be in terrific shape for that.
posted by Risiko at 3:04 AM on May 7, 2009
Yes, there is a reason: aeroplanes contribute to climate change.
It might be cheaper to plant a load of trees and travel by plane.
posted by devnull at 3:11 AM on May 7, 2009
It might be cheaper to plant a load of trees and travel by plane.
posted by devnull at 3:11 AM on May 7, 2009
Trains contribute to climate change too -- that energy still has to come from somewhere -- a bus (ignoring that pesky English Channel issue) would be at least twice as efficient. Hell, even walking contributes to climate change, just think of all those CO2 scrubbing plants you're burning up with each step. Ultimately, the best way to do this is probably going to be flying. There probably aren't fast and cheap rail options for this trip because nearly everyone wants to go by air: it's already fast and cheap, so there's just no reason for rail to try to compete here. The usual rule applies -- Good, fast, cheap: pick any two.
While I personally think much of the carbon offset market is a joke, this is actually a situation where it might make sense: you reduce your emissions to the extent practicable, and then purchase offsets for the rest. If it's truly not worth it economically to be perfectly eco-friendly on your trip and you can't justify not doing so, then you really have only one option: stay in London.
posted by zachlipton at 3:13 AM on May 7, 2009
While I personally think much of the carbon offset market is a joke, this is actually a situation where it might make sense: you reduce your emissions to the extent practicable, and then purchase offsets for the rest. If it's truly not worth it economically to be perfectly eco-friendly on your trip and you can't justify not doing so, then you really have only one option: stay in London.
posted by zachlipton at 3:13 AM on May 7, 2009
On the "Hell, even walking contributes to climate change" note, I wonder if anyone has calculated the number of calories required to ride a modern efficient touring bicycle the distance of Calais to Berlin, against the fuel required to produce (meat, grains, etc) the food required to fuel a human body to expend those calories.
If your food comes from a source that mostly uses highly intensive mechanized agriculture you might find that eating 5,500 calories a day for serious cycle touring would be more harmful.
posted by thewalrus at 3:17 AM on May 7, 2009
If your food comes from a source that mostly uses highly intensive mechanized agriculture you might find that eating 5,500 calories a day for serious cycle touring would be more harmful.
posted by thewalrus at 3:17 AM on May 7, 2009
German Bahn has a "London Special" on offer.
Eurostar from London to Brussels, from there the night train to Berlin. From GBP 75.
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/prices/europe/eurostar_london_ticket.shtml
posted by wft at 3:18 AM on May 7, 2009
Eurostar from London to Brussels, from there the night train to Berlin. From GBP 75.
http://www.bahn.de/international/view/en/prices/europe/eurostar_london_ticket.shtml
posted by wft at 3:18 AM on May 7, 2009
Response by poster: @mdonley Thank you very much for the detailed answer. The Eurostar to Paris is actually very cheap: about £50, so it seems worth spending the extra for speed and ease. The expensive leg is Paris to Berlin. I saw that I could reduce costs slightly by doing the sleeper in a seat, rather than a couchette, but I think that might kill me.
posted by maryrosecook at 3:19 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by maryrosecook at 3:19 AM on May 7, 2009
Response by poster: I have created a MetaTalk side-thread for discussing relative climate change contributions of travel by train, plane, automobile, bike, feet.
posted by maryrosecook at 3:24 AM on May 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by maryrosecook at 3:24 AM on May 7, 2009 [3 favorites]
In terms of mileage, the detour over Paris seems unnecessary.
How about the ferry from Harwich to Hoek van Holland?
Stena Britannica ferry
dep.: 09:00- arr.: 16:30
Stena Hollandica ferry
dep.: 23:45- arr.: 07:45
The train trip from Rotterdam to Berlin takes between 6 and 8 hours. The best way to find out is at www.bahn.de . There's an English version. Very fast and complete search function
posted by Namlit at 3:26 AM on May 7, 2009
How about the ferry from Harwich to Hoek van Holland?
Stena Britannica ferry
dep.: 09:00- arr.: 16:30
Stena Hollandica ferry
dep.: 23:45- arr.: 07:45
The train trip from Rotterdam to Berlin takes between 6 and 8 hours. The best way to find out is at www.bahn.de . There's an English version. Very fast and complete search function
posted by Namlit at 3:26 AM on May 7, 2009
thewalrus: I was actually just looking into that kind of question, out of curiosity. This page has some figures with reasonable seeming citations and may be worth a look. If you aren't a vegetarian, that certainly doesn't help the numbers. Of course, those 5,500 calories a day you mention include the 2,000+ a "normal" person eats while sitting on the train (and considering most train food, I bet many trainriders eat more).
In short, flying is bad for the environment, but not dump tankers of crude on baby seals bad, and there's stuff you can do (e.g. offsets, avoid stopovers, travel less) to minimize your impact.
But in any case, the OP never asked any of these questions and so I'll butt out now.
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 AM on May 7, 2009
In short, flying is bad for the environment, but not dump tankers of crude on baby seals bad, and there's stuff you can do (e.g. offsets, avoid stopovers, travel less) to minimize your impact.
But in any case, the OP never asked any of these questions and so I'll butt out now.
posted by zachlipton at 3:28 AM on May 7, 2009
I'd see about going through Brussels instead of Paris, which significantly shortens the trip, thus further reducing your carbon footprint. You can compare the pollution & price from rental cars, buses, and trains from Brussels to Berlin too.
Ferries are risky if your timing is critical, not using a railpass, etc. I mean, you can even hitchhike if you've that much time. :)
p.s. If your that serious about climate change, you might consider moving to some country that causes less pollution than England. France uses mostly nuclear power. French people don't use plastic in their cooking. etc.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:33 AM on May 7, 2009
Ferries are risky if your timing is critical, not using a railpass, etc. I mean, you can even hitchhike if you've that much time. :)
p.s. If your that serious about climate change, you might consider moving to some country that causes less pollution than England. France uses mostly nuclear power. French people don't use plastic in their cooking. etc.
posted by jeffburdges at 3:33 AM on May 7, 2009
Yes, there is a reason: aeroplanes contribute to climate change.
Fair enough. Brussels looks better than Paris for train connections to me too.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 3:55 AM on May 7, 2009
Fair enough. Brussels looks better than Paris for train connections to me too.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 3:55 AM on May 7, 2009
Response by poster: @wft Thanks for the link. 75 euros is only one way, and is for a seat, rather than couchette.
posted by maryrosecook at 4:13 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by maryrosecook at 4:13 AM on May 7, 2009
book a eurostar ticket to brussles. in brussles get a connection to cologne, the thalys is dirt cheap. I think it was 20 euros when I took it. then use the deutsche bahn ICE train to berlin. they have special rates - book early enough and you can go anywhere one way for 29 euros. it's limited availability and fares go up to 59 and 89 euros but if it's a couple weeks off you should still be able to get it. I just hacked 3.6.09 into the bahn reservation site because I didn't know when you wanted to go and the 29 euro special fare came up no problem.
I know the bahn site sucks balls and they don't easily let you book intl. travel, so just do it this way. eurostar will also sell you a direct ticket all the way to cologne using the thalys. the eurostar is expensive, it just has a monopoly, but they don't charge a premium for the thalys.
lots of crap answers. "take a plane" is NOT answering op's question and you guys suck.
posted by krautland at 4:51 AM on May 7, 2009
I know the bahn site sucks balls and they don't easily let you book intl. travel, so just do it this way. eurostar will also sell you a direct ticket all the way to cologne using the thalys. the eurostar is expensive, it just has a monopoly, but they don't charge a premium for the thalys.
lots of crap answers. "take a plane" is NOT answering op's question and you guys suck.
posted by krautland at 4:51 AM on May 7, 2009
and don't worry about sleeping. the ICE is pretty luxurious even in second class, as is the thalys. we're not talking amtrak here.
posted by krautland at 5:01 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by krautland at 5:01 AM on May 7, 2009
If you're not committed to the sleeper option, look into getting the daytime train from Brussels to Berlin. I did it in January and it's a beautiful journey, albeit a bit long. The fare from Brussels to Berlin was ainround £100 return, plus £50-£60 for the Eurostar makes it a fair bit cheaper than the sleeper. You can even pop out of the station to check out the huge cathederal in Cologne while you wait for your connection!
posted by hibbersk at 5:36 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by hibbersk at 5:36 AM on May 7, 2009
krautland: in brussles get a connection to cologne, the thalys is dirt cheap
Just a minor point: ICE is usually nicer and cheaper than Thalys. So I recommend doing what krautland has suggested except looking for an ICE connection from Brussels to Cologne.
posted by dseaton at 7:07 AM on May 7, 2009
Just a minor point: ICE is usually nicer and cheaper than Thalys. So I recommend doing what krautland has suggested except looking for an ICE connection from Brussels to Cologne.
posted by dseaton at 7:07 AM on May 7, 2009
Seat61's Germany Page has the cheapest and most effective rail routes to Berlin and other German cities. Highly recommended.
posted by Happy Dave at 7:20 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by Happy Dave at 7:20 AM on May 7, 2009
And on looking through that page, Eurostar then ICE sleeper looks like it comes in at sub-£100 return for 2nd class.
posted by Happy Dave at 7:21 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by Happy Dave at 7:21 AM on May 7, 2009
If you want value whilst avoiding unnecessary carbon emissions, consider driving. The ferry is only about £50 and petrol should be no more than £150 both ways. Split between five people, it's only £50 each (cheaper than a flight and train to the airport) and the per-person-journey emissions are low. Take some friends with you in a people carrier or look into lift sharing. It should only take about 10 hours too.
posted by turkeyphant at 7:48 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by turkeyphant at 7:48 AM on May 7, 2009
FWIW, if your journey is one-way, you can usually get a cheaper London->Paris/Brussels Eurostar fare by purchasing a round trip, with the return 3 months or so in the future. Selecting "one-way" forces you into a selection of business-class tickets (at least on the website, as of 1 month ago).
posted by fatllama at 9:53 AM on May 7, 2009
posted by fatllama at 9:53 AM on May 7, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you very much for the suggestions, everyone. I am definitely going to go via train, so I will just hammer those blasted ticket sites to find the magic cheapest fare combinations. And, yes, it sounds like London, Brussels, Cologne, Berlin is the winning route.
posted by maryrosecook at 12:36 PM on May 7, 2009
posted by maryrosecook at 12:36 PM on May 7, 2009
ICE is usually nicer and cheaper than Thalys.
I thought so, too but last time the ticket I got in brussles was €19 to cologne. I thought that was an amazing deal.
and with some luck, one of them will be €49.
huh? I didn't try this out again but up to now *always* got the dreaded "can't tell you how much this would cost" because DB and eurostar don't work together.
posted by krautland at 6:54 AM on May 8, 2009
I thought so, too but last time the ticket I got in brussles was €19 to cologne. I thought that was an amazing deal.
and with some luck, one of them will be €49.
huh? I didn't try this out again but up to now *always* got the dreaded "can't tell you how much this would cost" because DB and eurostar don't work together.
posted by krautland at 6:54 AM on May 8, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by maryrosecook at 2:44 AM on May 7, 2009