Mr Obama?
April 13, 2009 6:23 PM Subscribe
I've noticed that often the current U.S. President is often referred to as "Mr. Obama" in the news, whether online, radio, or TV (and, it seems to me, moreso in foreign media) -- but I don't seem to remember this for "Mr. Bush" or "Mr. Clinton", who were always "President Bush" and "President Clinton" in my recollection. Did I miss this all along, or is it a new convention of the media?
It's just you. Presidents Bush and Clinton were referred to as "Mr. [name]" routinely.
posted by valkyryn at 6:25 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by valkyryn at 6:25 PM on April 13, 2009
You are right as far as foreign media goes. The BBC especially seems to refer to U.S. Presidents as "Mr. ___".
posted by aheckler at 6:26 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by aheckler at 6:26 PM on April 13, 2009
As far as I've learned (and Civilization III has confirmed), "Mister" is the proper honorific for the American president. I don't have a cite for that, though.
In any case, I remember plenty of Mr. Bushes and Mr. Clintons, so I'd suggest confirmation bias on your part.
posted by The Michael The at 6:27 PM on April 13, 2009
In any case, I remember plenty of Mr. Bushes and Mr. Clintons, so I'd suggest confirmation bias on your part.
posted by The Michael The at 6:27 PM on April 13, 2009
Yeah, lots of "Mr. Clinton" and "Mr. Bush" in the past. One possibility is that there's a little more NYT and/or BBC feeding into your media diet, assuming there's an actual change in what you're hearing/reading, and not just noticing it now when you didn't previously.
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:28 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by Tomorrowful at 6:28 PM on April 13, 2009
Best answer: Don't worry: Lots of people's memories are faulty about this topic, according to the NPR ombudsman.
posted by purpleclover at 6:29 PM on April 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by purpleclover at 6:29 PM on April 13, 2009 [3 favorites]
AzrealBrown, I've noticed it too and I was wondering the same thing just the other day, so it's not just you.
posted by Maisie at 6:29 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by Maisie at 6:29 PM on April 13, 2009
I heard "Mr. Bush" all of the time, in U.S. media and elsewhere. I'm not sure exactly why it started or when, but I think it is disrespectful to call any president anything but "President LastName" or "Mr. President." Whether you agree with their policies or not, it's important to be considerate of the office.
posted by cloudsandstars at 6:30 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by cloudsandstars at 6:30 PM on April 13, 2009
Every new president brings a new round of people who notice this for the first time.
NY Times, September 18, 1851:
"The distinguished visitors were received at the wharf by Hon. R. B. Cranston, (whose home is in this lovely spot,) J. Prescott Hall, Esq., and other prominent men, and Mr. Fillmore was conducted immediately to an open barouche, drawn by four beautiful greys, amid the boisterous greetings of a large number of citizens who had assembled to look upon, and show their respect for, the Chief Magistrate of the nation."
posted by Flunkie at 6:32 PM on April 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
NY Times, September 18, 1851:
"The distinguished visitors were received at the wharf by Hon. R. B. Cranston, (whose home is in this lovely spot,) J. Prescott Hall, Esq., and other prominent men, and Mr. Fillmore was conducted immediately to an open barouche, drawn by four beautiful greys, amid the boisterous greetings of a large number of citizens who had assembled to look upon, and show their respect for, the Chief Magistrate of the nation."
posted by Flunkie at 6:32 PM on April 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't remember it prior to Gingrich referring to Clinton as Mr. Clinton instead of President Clinton, but that could be the difference between politicians and media. I remember then thinking it was an intentional yet passive aggressive snub. I don't remember politicians saying Mr. Reagan, for example, but I was too young to pay attention much. I just remember it sticking out as new and different when Gingrich would say it. Calling someone Mr. isn't disrespectful... unless convention says you give them more than that. Like I say though, could just be imagining/remembering differently.
posted by Askr at 6:35 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by Askr at 6:35 PM on April 13, 2009
I'm not sure exactly why it started or when, but I think it is disrespectful to call any president anything but "President LastName" or "Mr. President."
Talk to James Madison.
posted by The Michael The at 6:36 PM on April 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Talk to James Madison.
posted by The Michael The at 6:36 PM on April 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Definitely done by the New York Times. It seems they refer to everybody in this manner. At the beginning of an article the full name will be used, and perhaps his/her title--"President Barak Obama", "Britney Spears". Thereafter it's always "Mr. Obama" and "Ms. Spears". Sometimes journalists will simply use the last name--"Obama", "Spears"--though I don't know if there are any "rules" against this.
posted by zardoz at 6:43 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by zardoz at 6:43 PM on April 13, 2009
It's "President X" on first reference, "Mr. X" on second and subsequent, or more generally, "Title X" on first, "Mr./Mrs./Ms. X" on second. The only exceptions I can think of are for noble titles (which don't change with office held) and the Pope, who on second reference is just "papal name:.
posted by orthogonality at 6:47 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by orthogonality at 6:47 PM on April 13, 2009
I don't know if there are any "rules" against this.
Every news organization has its own style, usually codified in an actual style book. The Times famously (though possibly apocryphally) once called Meatloaf "Mr. Loaf" on second reference. Most American news outlets use AP style, which until last year called for President Lastname on first reference and then just Lastname after that. (They changed first reference style to President Firstname Lastname.)
Here's more discussion and mistaken outrage on the issue.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:00 PM on April 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Every news organization has its own style, usually codified in an actual style book. The Times famously (though possibly apocryphally) once called Meatloaf "Mr. Loaf" on second reference. Most American news outlets use AP style, which until last year called for President Lastname on first reference and then just Lastname after that. (They changed first reference style to President Firstname Lastname.)
Here's more discussion and mistaken outrage on the issue.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:00 PM on April 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
CL: His stage name is Meat Loaf, not Meatloaf, so it's easy to see how the Times had to follow its style manual.
posted by yclipse at 7:13 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by yclipse at 7:13 PM on April 13, 2009
I don't have evidence to back this up or anything so it's just anecdotal, but I distinctly remember Republicans being up in arms back in 2001 about the press calling Bush "Mr." instead of "President." I remember it being touted as evidence of the liberal media conspiracy because those whiners were just being sore losers and they were using it as a way to imply that he wasn't the real president. But perhaps that was just the angry Republicans I used to babysit for.
posted by lilac girl at 8:06 PM on April 13, 2009
posted by lilac girl at 8:06 PM on April 13, 2009
I hope you don't mind an aside, but it is common for American Presidents to call British Prime Ministers by their title, even though the correct honorific is Mister, President Obama did it during his recent visit to London.
posted by biffa at 2:34 AM on April 14, 2009
posted by biffa at 2:34 AM on April 14, 2009
titles: differentiate between title and job description eg President Clinton (but the US president, Bill Clinton, and Mr Clinton on subsequent mention); the Archbishop of Canterbury, George Carey (Dr Carey, or the archbishop, on
subsequent mentions); the Duke of Westminster (the duke at second mention); the Pope, the Queen
Extract from The Guardian Style Guide - which is probably pretty typical of those followed by other media organisations.
[and as for Samson Obama - well it's politest not to mention him at all over here perhaps]
posted by rongorongo at 3:07 AM on April 14, 2009
Here's the 1-2 punch:
Mr Bush vs President Bush
versus
Mr Obama vs President Obama
So yeah, it's just confirmation bias.
posted by forwebsites at 10:01 AM on April 14, 2009
Mr Bush vs President Bush
versus
Mr Obama vs President Obama
So yeah, it's just confirmation bias.
posted by forwebsites at 10:01 AM on April 14, 2009
The Times famously (though possibly apocryphally) once called Meatloaf "Mr. Loaf" on second reference.
I remember when Dee Snyder of Twisted Sister testified in the proceedings about music censorship. At one point he was referred to as "Mr. Sister."
posted by Piscean at 10:13 AM on April 14, 2009
I remember when Dee Snyder of Twisted Sister testified in the proceedings about music censorship. At one point he was referred to as "Mr. Sister."
posted by Piscean at 10:13 AM on April 14, 2009
As far as I've learned (and Civilization III has confirmed), "Mister" is the proper honorific for the American president. I don't have a cite for that, though.
What do you mean you don't have a cite? Civilization provided me with all my political and historical education.
Another fun example of the media struggling to stick the form guide was on Newsnight (UK) when Paxman interviewed rapper Dizzee Rascal and clearly wasn't sure whether to use the full name or "Mr. Rascal".
posted by theyexpectresults at 1:34 AM on May 14, 2009
What do you mean you don't have a cite? Civilization provided me with all my political and historical education.
Another fun example of the media struggling to stick the form guide was on Newsnight (UK) when Paxman interviewed rapper Dizzee Rascal and clearly wasn't sure whether to use the full name or "Mr. Rascal".
posted by theyexpectresults at 1:34 AM on May 14, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Jaltcoh at 6:25 PM on April 13, 2009 [1 favorite]