the friend talk
April 7, 2009 6:58 AM Subscribe
Never did the "let's be friends" talk, which is what it's shaping up to be. What can i expect from the talk and everything hereafter?
I've been hanging out with this guy who I work with, and it's been leaning towards the romantic side. I am not one who has ever been comfortable with making friends or boyfriends in the workplace, and made it a point to have friends and boyfriends outside of work, because even though I spend a ridiculous amount of time at work (ridiculous as in 12 hour workdays, it's an international company), I still consider it work, and don't like my emotions getting in the way of my work.
So, whenever I hang out with this "friend" outside of work, I avoid saying anything about work, and when I work with this "friend", I avoid bringing up anything personal. This is becoming a problem, and is probably the reason why he is moving on to another relationship, which he will not tell me about in/out the workplace (in fact, I found out about it through somebody else in passing, and I brought it up once, and he became pretty evasive).
We're having a talk this week, to go over what has happened, and I guess where to go from there. I'm getting a strong, "Let's be friends" vibe, and I guess, strong romantic feelings aside, I am thinking it may be for the best. Trouble is, what should I talk about? What should I expect from the talk? What should I expect after the talk? I've never done this before with a co-worker.
I've been hanging out with this guy who I work with, and it's been leaning towards the romantic side. I am not one who has ever been comfortable with making friends or boyfriends in the workplace, and made it a point to have friends and boyfriends outside of work, because even though I spend a ridiculous amount of time at work (ridiculous as in 12 hour workdays, it's an international company), I still consider it work, and don't like my emotions getting in the way of my work.
So, whenever I hang out with this "friend" outside of work, I avoid saying anything about work, and when I work with this "friend", I avoid bringing up anything personal. This is becoming a problem, and is probably the reason why he is moving on to another relationship, which he will not tell me about in/out the workplace (in fact, I found out about it through somebody else in passing, and I brought it up once, and he became pretty evasive).
We're having a talk this week, to go over what has happened, and I guess where to go from there. I'm getting a strong, "Let's be friends" vibe, and I guess, strong romantic feelings aside, I am thinking it may be for the best. Trouble is, what should I talk about? What should I expect from the talk? What should I expect after the talk? I've never done this before with a co-worker.
I assume you were friends before the romance started, and hence, you will go back to being friends after this talk. I think that the danger here is to over-think it, do some sort of lengthy autopsy, reflection and navel gazing. The more you do that, the worse off you're going to be.
This is a break up, but to a lesser degree. You go your way, he goes his way. You couldn't bring the two compartments of your life together - or rather wouldn't allow them to come together, he didn't like that, and there you go. He's found someone he feels more comfortable with. End of story.
The shorter this talk is, the better. Keep it kind, keep it short, keep it chill, and all will be good.
You'll see him tomorrow at work, and things will be different. Remember you were friends first. Focus on that.
posted by willmize at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2009
This is a break up, but to a lesser degree. You go your way, he goes his way. You couldn't bring the two compartments of your life together - or rather wouldn't allow them to come together, he didn't like that, and there you go. He's found someone he feels more comfortable with. End of story.
The shorter this talk is, the better. Keep it kind, keep it short, keep it chill, and all will be good.
You'll see him tomorrow at work, and things will be different. Remember you were friends first. Focus on that.
posted by willmize at 7:19 AM on April 7, 2009
and is probably the reason why he is moving on to another relationship, which he will not tell me about in/out the workplace
I don't see why you want to talk about anything, then. He's moving on. To be honest, with this fact combined with the obvious ambivalence in your description of the situation, I wonder if you want to have The Talk in order to be persuaded out of it.
The only reason to interject a "let's just be friends" conversation into a friendship is if one of you - or both - are failing to have other relationships because of someone's feelings. Apparently that's not an issue, so just let it happen naturally.
posted by phearlez at 7:24 AM on April 7, 2009
I don't see why you want to talk about anything, then. He's moving on. To be honest, with this fact combined with the obvious ambivalence in your description of the situation, I wonder if you want to have The Talk in order to be persuaded out of it.
The only reason to interject a "let's just be friends" conversation into a friendship is if one of you - or both - are failing to have other relationships because of someone's feelings. Apparently that's not an issue, so just let it happen naturally.
posted by phearlez at 7:24 AM on April 7, 2009
and is probably the reason why he is moving on to another relationship
Why do you have to talk about anything at all? It sounds like he is transitioning away from you, and you seem to be saying that you date other people outside of work.
Focus on being friends, keep it professional at all times and avoid that catty gossip that inevitability grows out of such inner-office tryst.
posted by wfrgms at 7:34 AM on April 7, 2009
Why do you have to talk about anything at all? It sounds like he is transitioning away from you, and you seem to be saying that you date other people outside of work.
Focus on being friends, keep it professional at all times and avoid that catty gossip that inevitability grows out of such inner-office tryst.
posted by wfrgms at 7:34 AM on April 7, 2009
Just don't get roped into the "friends with benefits" category unless you want to.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:11 AM on April 7, 2009
posted by Ironmouth at 8:11 AM on April 7, 2009
Think about all the friends you have in your life. Did you sit down them with and talk about how you were going to be friends, or did it just happen?
The point is, having an awkward conversation (and it always is) doesn't make you friends. Honestly enjoying each other's company, having something to offer the other person, and respecting each other makes people friends. If both of you really want that to happen, it can- but it's hard work.
Frankly "let's be friends" is, 99% of the time, a platitude which means something between "let's have a stilted conversation every now and then" to "let's never ever talk to each other again.'
Just say how you feel as honestly as possible. Don't make any blanket statements about what's going to happen or how your relationship will be in the future, because I'm sure neither of you quite knows right now.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:29 AM on April 7, 2009
The point is, having an awkward conversation (and it always is) doesn't make you friends. Honestly enjoying each other's company, having something to offer the other person, and respecting each other makes people friends. If both of you really want that to happen, it can- but it's hard work.
Frankly "let's be friends" is, 99% of the time, a platitude which means something between "let's have a stilted conversation every now and then" to "let's never ever talk to each other again.'
Just say how you feel as honestly as possible. Don't make any blanket statements about what's going to happen or how your relationship will be in the future, because I'm sure neither of you quite knows right now.
posted by drjimmy11 at 8:29 AM on April 7, 2009
Could you please clarify?
it's been leaning towards the romantic side. Does this mean that you have started to develop romantic feelings for him, requited or unrequited? Or that he has started developing romantic feelings for you? Or that it went from grabbing drinks after work to romantic dinners? Or that you're making out/sleeping together?
Could you give an example why you think your strategy for division of work and personal lives has driven him away? Like, one time at work, he wanted to talk about the movie you'd just seen the night before and you wouldn't discuss it?
How did the "talk" come about? Did he say "we need to talk"? What was it in response to? Maybe your asking about his other girlfriend? Or did you request to talk about your relationship?
Finally, I can't really identify your feelings in this. You kind of hint toward that end that you have romantic feelings for him but think maybe it's a good idea to be friends. Do you only want to be friends-only because you think he does? If that's the case, I'd really advise against a talk and just become coworkers-only again. But it's hard to give you advice on what do and expect in this "talk" when I don't really know what you want to happen.
posted by thebazilist at 8:41 AM on April 7, 2009
it's been leaning towards the romantic side. Does this mean that you have started to develop romantic feelings for him, requited or unrequited? Or that he has started developing romantic feelings for you? Or that it went from grabbing drinks after work to romantic dinners? Or that you're making out/sleeping together?
Could you give an example why you think your strategy for division of work and personal lives has driven him away? Like, one time at work, he wanted to talk about the movie you'd just seen the night before and you wouldn't discuss it?
How did the "talk" come about? Did he say "we need to talk"? What was it in response to? Maybe your asking about his other girlfriend? Or did you request to talk about your relationship?
Finally, I can't really identify your feelings in this. You kind of hint toward that end that you have romantic feelings for him but think maybe it's a good idea to be friends. Do you only want to be friends-only because you think he does? If that's the case, I'd really advise against a talk and just become coworkers-only again. But it's hard to give you advice on what do and expect in this "talk" when I don't really know what you want to happen.
posted by thebazilist at 8:41 AM on April 7, 2009
In a talk like this, I'd probably take a "fake it till you make it" approach, where I tried to imagine how I wanted our relationship to be (the type of friends where I'd be happy to hear he'd found a new gal) and act like that even though I didn't feel it.
On the other hand, if you think there's still a chance, and you want there to be one, maybe now is the time to be honest about your feelings for him and the concerns you have about the work-dating boundary that might've caused you to send mixed signals. (I'm a little unclear why you keeping those roles distinct would cause him to move on, but whatever it is, if it would benefit from some discussion, AND you don't think this whole thing with the other woman is a done deal, then now might be the time to discuss it.)
posted by salvia at 9:07 AM on April 7, 2009
On the other hand, if you think there's still a chance, and you want there to be one, maybe now is the time to be honest about your feelings for him and the concerns you have about the work-dating boundary that might've caused you to send mixed signals. (I'm a little unclear why you keeping those roles distinct would cause him to move on, but whatever it is, if it would benefit from some discussion, AND you don't think this whole thing with the other woman is a done deal, then now might be the time to discuss it.)
posted by salvia at 9:07 AM on April 7, 2009
As thebazilist points out, the question doesn't specify that anything concrete has actually been going on. It sounds like you have vague affectionate feelings toward this person, but nothing is coming of it.
If that's all there is, then you don't need to say anything to each other. Move on with your life.
If there's more to the situation, it'd help if you'd fill in the details.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:09 AM on April 7, 2009
If that's all there is, then you don't need to say anything to each other. Move on with your life.
If there's more to the situation, it'd help if you'd fill in the details.
posted by Jaltcoh at 9:09 AM on April 7, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses! It has gotten so far that we have slept together once and made out three times, but have not had sex. There have been times where we would flirt at work after we've done all of these things and then we would both back off. He has said that what we are doing, obviously, can not be made public (he's also my supervisor), so no outings together as a couple where work functions/parties are involved.
He has asked me a couple of times whether I wanted to go with him on trips out of the country with him, and I would say yes, but then I would suddenly think about how it would look if two people have the same days off on the schedule, and then tell him I need to think about it. Which sucks, because I always wanted to be able to travel with someone I knew and had trouble finding friends or family who would be interested, or have the means to do that sort of thing.
Honestly, I don't know if the thing with the other woman is a done deal, because it never comes up. I do want him in a relationship. I also don't want the relationship to mess up my work, because I like what I do a lot. I think it might be because I invited him to my birthday party (ok, he invited himself, and kind of threw the whole thing together as a "surprise" party), and then he almost said he wanted to bring someone, but for some reason he retracted that statement, and I told him he should bring whoever he wanted, that he and whoever he wanted to bring is invited. He didn't.
I guess I want to tell him how I feel about him, why I tend to act the way I do around him, and why it kind of scares me a little (because I am doing the thing I've wanted to do, and it's taken me five years after college just to get the point in my work, and I am afraid of losing it all). I asked him how he felt about us sleeping together that one time, and he said, "I don't know. What do you think?" and I told him I wasn't sure. This was over the phone, and he wanted to do a face-to-face thing.
Thanks again for responding. I am kind of nervous about this.
posted by eskers at 10:00 AM on April 7, 2009
He has asked me a couple of times whether I wanted to go with him on trips out of the country with him, and I would say yes, but then I would suddenly think about how it would look if two people have the same days off on the schedule, and then tell him I need to think about it. Which sucks, because I always wanted to be able to travel with someone I knew and had trouble finding friends or family who would be interested, or have the means to do that sort of thing.
Honestly, I don't know if the thing with the other woman is a done deal, because it never comes up. I do want him in a relationship. I also don't want the relationship to mess up my work, because I like what I do a lot. I think it might be because I invited him to my birthday party (ok, he invited himself, and kind of threw the whole thing together as a "surprise" party), and then he almost said he wanted to bring someone, but for some reason he retracted that statement, and I told him he should bring whoever he wanted, that he and whoever he wanted to bring is invited. He didn't.
I guess I want to tell him how I feel about him, why I tend to act the way I do around him, and why it kind of scares me a little (because I am doing the thing I've wanted to do, and it's taken me five years after college just to get the point in my work, and I am afraid of losing it all). I asked him how he felt about us sleeping together that one time, and he said, "I don't know. What do you think?" and I told him I wasn't sure. This was over the phone, and he wanted to do a face-to-face thing.
Thanks again for responding. I am kind of nervous about this.
posted by eskers at 10:00 AM on April 7, 2009
Wow, these new details make a whole lot of difference. Are you concerned that you may lose your job if it becomes public knowledge that you're involved in a relationship with your supervisor? (Does your company have any rules about this?) If so, the level of secrecy this would necessitate doesn't sound all that healthy for starting what you seem to hope could be a real relationship. If you'd just be keeping it a secret until the relationship stabilized, that's a different story, I guess, but that he's your supervisor sounds more than a little troubling.
In any case, when you see him in person being honest with him shouldn't be a problem. Tell him how you feel, and don't be shy (at all) about telling him about your concerns and about how much the job means to you. This potential other woman is really a secondary concern. And realize that as your supervisor, chances are he has a lot more to lose from this being made public than you do, so don't be surprised if he's decided it's not a safe thing to continue. And if you two do decide to go ahead and have a relationship, decisions about how suspicious it might seem for the two of you to schedule time off concurrently should probably be made together. When you backed off from going with him on the international trip, did you make it completely clear why you were doing so?
Good luck. There are a whole bunch of reasons for this not to work out. Hopefully both of you can be mature about it and not try to ruin the other's career if things go sour.
posted by nobody at 10:27 AM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
In any case, when you see him in person being honest with him shouldn't be a problem. Tell him how you feel, and don't be shy (at all) about telling him about your concerns and about how much the job means to you. This potential other woman is really a secondary concern. And realize that as your supervisor, chances are he has a lot more to lose from this being made public than you do, so don't be surprised if he's decided it's not a safe thing to continue. And if you two do decide to go ahead and have a relationship, decisions about how suspicious it might seem for the two of you to schedule time off concurrently should probably be made together. When you backed off from going with him on the international trip, did you make it completely clear why you were doing so?
Good luck. There are a whole bunch of reasons for this not to work out. Hopefully both of you can be mature about it and not try to ruin the other's career if things go sour.
posted by nobody at 10:27 AM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: LOL, I'm glad I asked for clarification.
Let's boil this down: you and your supervisor have been sleeping together (in this situation, I don't think there's a distinction between having sex and sleeping together without having sex even though you both want to). You want this to be a real relationship, and it seems like he does, too. You, however, have been giving serious back-off signals.
Ditto-ing nobody, when you backed off the trip, did you tell him why? Have you at all told him that you're nervous about how your relationship, or even the hint of your relationship around the office, could affect your job? If not, is there a reason why you aren't comfortable discussing this with him? To me, that's a pretty reasonable reason to keep the relationship under wraps or to not pursue the relationship at all. Be honest about this.
I know that it seems like it's usually the guy with one foot out the door of the relationship, and you have to be the one gauging his feelings so that you don't get too needy or more into the relationship than he is. In this situation, however, he has more to lose. If you have sex and you regret it, he could have a potential sexual-harassment case on his hands. He has to be really careful that he's not doing something that isn't 100% welcome to you. So if you then are "unsure" and "need more time to think," he isn't really in a position to push you. Another reason to be honest about your hesitation.
As for this alleged other woman, she is a rumor. And really, until you have a ring on your finger (and not even then, necessarily), guys are always going to be on the lookout for the next best woman. And in your case, you are making it seem like you're unavailable or not really interested in a relationship. If he wanted your thing to be completely over, he wouldn't have hesitated to tell you about this other woman, so the fact that he was evasive and secretive to me is a good thing (just remember that you are NOT EXCLUSIVE until these words are uttered and agreed upon by both parties).
Tell him you like him and want a relationship, but that you're concerned about your job. It's up to you and him and your company to determine whether you should pursue the relationship at that point.
posted by thebazilist at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Let's boil this down: you and your supervisor have been sleeping together (in this situation, I don't think there's a distinction between having sex and sleeping together without having sex even though you both want to). You want this to be a real relationship, and it seems like he does, too. You, however, have been giving serious back-off signals.
Ditto-ing nobody, when you backed off the trip, did you tell him why? Have you at all told him that you're nervous about how your relationship, or even the hint of your relationship around the office, could affect your job? If not, is there a reason why you aren't comfortable discussing this with him? To me, that's a pretty reasonable reason to keep the relationship under wraps or to not pursue the relationship at all. Be honest about this.
I know that it seems like it's usually the guy with one foot out the door of the relationship, and you have to be the one gauging his feelings so that you don't get too needy or more into the relationship than he is. In this situation, however, he has more to lose. If you have sex and you regret it, he could have a potential sexual-harassment case on his hands. He has to be really careful that he's not doing something that isn't 100% welcome to you. So if you then are "unsure" and "need more time to think," he isn't really in a position to push you. Another reason to be honest about your hesitation.
As for this alleged other woman, she is a rumor. And really, until you have a ring on your finger (and not even then, necessarily), guys are always going to be on the lookout for the next best woman. And in your case, you are making it seem like you're unavailable or not really interested in a relationship. If he wanted your thing to be completely over, he wouldn't have hesitated to tell you about this other woman, so the fact that he was evasive and secretive to me is a good thing (just remember that you are NOT EXCLUSIVE until these words are uttered and agreed upon by both parties).
Tell him you like him and want a relationship, but that you're concerned about your job. It's up to you and him and your company to determine whether you should pursue the relationship at that point.
posted by thebazilist at 11:44 AM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
So you're having a sexual relationship with your supervisor at work. You know that this is almost never a good idea, so we don't need to lecture you about any of this. {Also, nit-picking about what base you've gotten to is for high school. If you're making out and spending the night together, you're having a sexual relationship, whether or not you've had intercourse.}
Decide what you want to do--keep working with this guy in a friendly, appropriate, collegial way, or pursue a relationship with this guy (in which case you need to get a transfer within the company, or a new job, or anything that gets you out of his reporting chain). Then talk about it like grownups.
You cannot keep working together and hoping that the relationship will get more serious. That is going to fuck you up, either emotionally or career-wise or both.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:52 PM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Decide what you want to do--keep working with this guy in a friendly, appropriate, collegial way, or pursue a relationship with this guy (in which case you need to get a transfer within the company, or a new job, or anything that gets you out of his reporting chain). Then talk about it like grownups.
You cannot keep working together and hoping that the relationship will get more serious. That is going to fuck you up, either emotionally or career-wise or both.
posted by Sidhedevil at 2:52 PM on April 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks for the answers everyone. I didn't tell him why I backed out on the trip. I have asked if what we are doing will ruin the work relationship, and he said that it won't ruin it, but it will change things. Looking back it might be a done deal with this other woman because he's started calling me "Dear, dear, dear friend" and while we still flirt, he now brings up plans and then retracts them a second later. I'm thinking this talk might clear the air a little. I'm hoping it does, because right now I am a mess. Thanks again.
posted by eskers at 8:34 PM on April 7, 2009
posted by eskers at 8:34 PM on April 7, 2009
I hope this is not too late, but don't start with a "let's be friend" talk. It's not entirely unlikely that the reason he backed off was due to you backing off first. His bringing up plans and retracting them may very well be how he was gauging your interest. Maybe it's time to straighten things out in a grown-up way whether you two share a mutual interest in pursuing this relationship further.
posted by semi at 10:03 PM on April 8, 2009
posted by semi at 10:03 PM on April 8, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
I am honestly not sure how else that could work.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:09 AM on April 7, 2009