Relationship past betrayal.
November 5, 2004 10:16 AM
Dear Ask Mefi: How can two people who love each other get back together after a tragic breakup? She and I lived together for many years. The relationship ended because she cheated on me. Otherwise, she was the love of my life. Now, years later, I have discovered through mutual friends that she refers to it as one of the biggest mistakes of her life but doesn't even forgive herself. I might be able to forgive under the right circumstances and if she is sincere. But, I don't want to initiate contact because I still feel hurt. She won't initiate contact because she doesn't feel she deserves a second chance. Is there anyplace to go from here? Advice, experiences welcome...
"I don't want to initiate contact because I still feel hurt."
You want a relationship with this person, but not enough to call them and say so? You'll have to get over it -- either in time or with effort, or both -- before you're ready to entangle yourself with her again.
Either you're prepared to forgive her, or you're not. If you are, call her and invite her back into your life.
posted by majick at 10:23 AM on November 5, 2004
You want a relationship with this person, but not enough to call them and say so? You'll have to get over it -- either in time or with effort, or both -- before you're ready to entangle yourself with her again.
Either you're prepared to forgive her, or you're not. If you are, call her and invite her back into your life.
posted by majick at 10:23 AM on November 5, 2004
What majick said. This doesn't sound like you're anywhere near ready:
I might be able to forgive under the right circumstances and if she is sincere. But, I don't want to initiate contact because I still feel hurt.
If you try getting back together under these conditions, I can pretty much guarantee you're going to wind up taking out your unresolved resentment on her and breaking up again. Get yourself to the point where you can genuinely say "The past doesn't matter, I love you, let's start fresh" or move on and forget her.
posted by languagehat at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2004
I might be able to forgive under the right circumstances and if she is sincere. But, I don't want to initiate contact because I still feel hurt.
If you try getting back together under these conditions, I can pretty much guarantee you're going to wind up taking out your unresolved resentment on her and breaking up again. Get yourself to the point where you can genuinely say "The past doesn't matter, I love you, let's start fresh" or move on and forget her.
posted by languagehat at 10:28 AM on November 5, 2004
I don't want to initiate contact
Sounds to me like you do. But for you to take the first step would be a sign of weakness, of being a doormat, right? She cheats on you, and you crawl back to her. I know. That's probably what's going on inside your head. You could accept a reconciliation if it came your way, you could be magnanimous and big-hearted about forgiving her if she crawled back to you, but since she did you dirt, it doesn't seem right for you to make the effort.
Sigh.
Dignity? Or love of your life? Hm.
Here's the win-win as I see it. Go to her. Offer your forgiveness. Be open-hearted and honest. See what happens. Take her back. You'll be the biggest man in town. Being big enough to forgive something so terrible shows amazing backbone and compassion.
And you'll get the girl.
However, if she still feels unworthy, then perhaps she is. Some people cheat and go "holy shit! what did I do? what a mistake! I take it back!" right away. Other people cheat, feel remorse, but they know in their hearts that they'd do it again, and they walk around feeling bad about themselves - with good reason. Which is she?
Also: if you're still really torn up about it, you have no way of knowing if you really love her, or if you'd just like a chance to erase this really bad episode from your past by re-writing the ending. You're too close to it to tell the difference.
posted by scarabic at 10:30 AM on November 5, 2004
Sounds to me like you do. But for you to take the first step would be a sign of weakness, of being a doormat, right? She cheats on you, and you crawl back to her. I know. That's probably what's going on inside your head. You could accept a reconciliation if it came your way, you could be magnanimous and big-hearted about forgiving her if she crawled back to you, but since she did you dirt, it doesn't seem right for you to make the effort.
Sigh.
Dignity? Or love of your life? Hm.
Here's the win-win as I see it. Go to her. Offer your forgiveness. Be open-hearted and honest. See what happens. Take her back. You'll be the biggest man in town. Being big enough to forgive something so terrible shows amazing backbone and compassion.
And you'll get the girl.
However, if she still feels unworthy, then perhaps she is. Some people cheat and go "holy shit! what did I do? what a mistake! I take it back!" right away. Other people cheat, feel remorse, but they know in their hearts that they'd do it again, and they walk around feeling bad about themselves - with good reason. Which is she?
Also: if you're still really torn up about it, you have no way of knowing if you really love her, or if you'd just like a chance to erase this really bad episode from your past by re-writing the ending. You're too close to it to tell the difference.
posted by scarabic at 10:30 AM on November 5, 2004
Wow, a freind of mine just recently went through exactly what you describe. Bottom line: They just got married. He had heard the same things through his own grapevine, and after some soul searching, decided to pick up the phone. Hey, everyone makes mistakes, and life is way too short not to give something like this a second chance if indeed the first go around was as special as you and her thought it was. Give it a shot and good luck.
posted by repoman at 10:33 AM on November 5, 2004
posted by repoman at 10:33 AM on November 5, 2004
Visualization exercise. Fast forward your life til you're over 60. Now look back and imagine what you will think about this quandry. If you're like me, you are now imagining that you'd be thinking, "What a yutz I was to not call!"
Calling is not the same as getting back together - it's just opening a door a crack, and seeing if either one of you wants to walk through the door. No one's forgiven anybody yet, no concessions have been made - that's all for later, if at all. But for now, why not make the call (or email if that's easier). Explain that you're still hurt and angry, but that you've heard through a mutual friend that it might be a good time to begin to have a conversation about the past and the future.
Take tiny steps and see what comes of them. If some part of you didn't want to call, you wouldn't have raised the question here. To not call when at least part of you wants to raises the possibility of missing an "opportune moment" as Capt Jack Sparrow says.
posted by jasper411 at 10:35 AM on November 5, 2004
Calling is not the same as getting back together - it's just opening a door a crack, and seeing if either one of you wants to walk through the door. No one's forgiven anybody yet, no concessions have been made - that's all for later, if at all. But for now, why not make the call (or email if that's easier). Explain that you're still hurt and angry, but that you've heard through a mutual friend that it might be a good time to begin to have a conversation about the past and the future.
Take tiny steps and see what comes of them. If some part of you didn't want to call, you wouldn't have raised the question here. To not call when at least part of you wants to raises the possibility of missing an "opportune moment" as Capt Jack Sparrow says.
posted by jasper411 at 10:35 AM on November 5, 2004
I have discovered through mutual friends that she refers to it as one of the biggest mistakes of her life but doesn't even forgive herself.
If you truly can not pick up the phone [or email] which would be my first instinct, then tell that mutual friend to fill her in on how you're feeling minus the not-your-doormat part of it. Make sure the "he is willing to give you a second chance" part is mentioned.
It may be that she sees you as a mistake but not in that "I want to get back together with him and will never ever cheat again if I got the chance" way. It may be that she sees history in a "wow, I blew that one, but deep down I know I would blow it again" way, in which case you really need to find a way to steer clear. Put another way, you may miss each other in different ways and laying some groundwork in advance to make sure you're feeling the same thing [i.e. "let's try again, but with no cheating!"] would be time well spent.
posted by jessamyn at 10:53 AM on November 5, 2004
If you truly can not pick up the phone [or email] which would be my first instinct, then tell that mutual friend to fill her in on how you're feeling minus the not-your-doormat part of it. Make sure the "he is willing to give you a second chance" part is mentioned.
It may be that she sees you as a mistake but not in that "I want to get back together with him and will never ever cheat again if I got the chance" way. It may be that she sees history in a "wow, I blew that one, but deep down I know I would blow it again" way, in which case you really need to find a way to steer clear. Put another way, you may miss each other in different ways and laying some groundwork in advance to make sure you're feeling the same thing [i.e. "let's try again, but with no cheating!"] would be time well spent.
posted by jessamyn at 10:53 AM on November 5, 2004
I had a somewhat similar thing happen to me. But it was my ex who initiated the contact, not me, hoping that I would forgive her. At the time I was seeing someone new and it forced me to have to make a decision between the two of them. I chose to stay with my new girlfriend. We've been together now over 22 years, and I still don't regret making that decision. Living in a small town, I actually see my ex from time to time. It's clear she regrets having done what she did, but it didn't change anything. Our meetings are always full of tension.
You have to ask yourself if you think you can overcome the anger and hurt that you feel or whether seeing this person again will only remind you of what has happened. Time might help.
posted by tommasz at 10:56 AM on November 5, 2004
You have to ask yourself if you think you can overcome the anger and hurt that you feel or whether seeing this person again will only remind you of what has happened. Time might help.
posted by tommasz at 10:56 AM on November 5, 2004
Call her.
If you need further motivation, track down a song called "Stranger With Your Hair" by John Gorka. Listen to it. Sigh. Listen to it again.
Then call her sobbing. Look, calling doesn't mean that you're getting back together or even that you've forgiven or forgotten. But it needs to be done.
posted by grabbingsand at 10:57 AM on November 5, 2004
If you need further motivation, track down a song called "Stranger With Your Hair" by John Gorka. Listen to it. Sigh. Listen to it again.
Then call her sobbing. Look, calling doesn't mean that you're getting back together or even that you've forgiven or forgotten. But it needs to be done.
posted by grabbingsand at 10:57 AM on November 5, 2004
Whether you contact her or not (and there are arguments to be made on both sides of that), it will not work out. Make your decision knowing that up front, and you should be fine either way.
I am a justice man, not a mercy man. I can't help feeling that if justice is observed, mercy is forever unnecessary. I don't want her punished, I want no eye for an eye, I hope I don't gloat over her misfortunes. I just can't feel about her as I once did. She broke something. I know no way of discounting the doctrine that when you take something you want, and damn the consequences, then you had better be ready to accept whatever consequences ensue. —Wallace Stegner, Angle of Reposeposted by rushmc at 11:18 AM on November 5, 2004
For what it's worth, I think you should contact her. You don't have to decide immediately if it's right, or not, to get back together as a couple. However, it sounds like opening up some communication and talking it through as best you can would be more helpful than living with a bunch of unresolved questions, for both of you.
posted by normy at 11:25 AM on November 5, 2004
posted by normy at 11:25 AM on November 5, 2004
I think that if she does not feel worthy, then she probably is not. Going back to her until the time that she does would just really put you in an inferior position when it comes to respect.
I know this sounds harsh, but if she does not come groveling to you (or at least makes the first contact), then there is nothing to be done. She made the (tragic) mistake, and it is her responsibility to get the balls to come up and say that she has changed, she understands her mistake, and she still loves you. If she's not brave enough to do that, and you go to her first, then you will be the sucker in her eyes forever.
posted by eas98 at 11:25 AM on November 5, 2004
I know this sounds harsh, but if she does not come groveling to you (or at least makes the first contact), then there is nothing to be done. She made the (tragic) mistake, and it is her responsibility to get the balls to come up and say that she has changed, she understands her mistake, and she still loves you. If she's not brave enough to do that, and you go to her first, then you will be the sucker in her eyes forever.
posted by eas98 at 11:25 AM on November 5, 2004
i'm surprised no-one has said this, so i may be wrong, but...
i think you need to forgive her first, and haven't. getting back together should be about getting back together, and not her humiliating herself until you feel inclined to accept her again.
presumably you broke up the relationship, if it was her that cheated. fine - that's your choice. but then you forgive and forget. you don't make up again just so that you can go through another round of fighting about it.
people cheat. it was a long time ago. get over it.
once you've done that, drop her a line and good luck.
posted by andrew cooke at 11:39 AM on November 5, 2004
i think you need to forgive her first, and haven't. getting back together should be about getting back together, and not her humiliating herself until you feel inclined to accept her again.
presumably you broke up the relationship, if it was her that cheated. fine - that's your choice. but then you forgive and forget. you don't make up again just so that you can go through another round of fighting about it.
people cheat. it was a long time ago. get over it.
once you've done that, drop her a line and good luck.
posted by andrew cooke at 11:39 AM on November 5, 2004
It may be that she sees history in a "wow, I blew that one, but deep down I know I would blow it again" way, in which case you really need to find a way to steer clear.
Absolutely.
Deep down, this is how I feel about it: we all make mistakes, and we're saddled with those for the rest of our lives. That doesn't change the kind of person we are, though. She may feel regret that she "blew it", but that's probably because she's either not in a relationship right now, or in a relationship that's going nowhere. Times like that lend one to nostalgia.
But those feelings pass. I don't feel people can fundamentally change, so whatever the reason she cheated in the first place is still there, waiting dormant. If you think a similar situation might arise again in the future, prepare yourself for the same result if you get into a relationship with her again.
Let the past remain in the past. If you decide to get back into a relationship with her, it should be on entirely new grounds -- the issues that caused your first breakup should not even be on the table... they should already be resolved. If neither of you have reached this stage yet, be prepared for disappointment.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:19 PM on November 5, 2004
Absolutely.
Deep down, this is how I feel about it: we all make mistakes, and we're saddled with those for the rest of our lives. That doesn't change the kind of person we are, though. She may feel regret that she "blew it", but that's probably because she's either not in a relationship right now, or in a relationship that's going nowhere. Times like that lend one to nostalgia.
But those feelings pass. I don't feel people can fundamentally change, so whatever the reason she cheated in the first place is still there, waiting dormant. If you think a similar situation might arise again in the future, prepare yourself for the same result if you get into a relationship with her again.
Let the past remain in the past. If you decide to get back into a relationship with her, it should be on entirely new grounds -- the issues that caused your first breakup should not even be on the table... they should already be resolved. If neither of you have reached this stage yet, be prepared for disappointment.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:19 PM on November 5, 2004
What andrew cooke said. I know different people have wildly different ideas about things like cheating, but I think the bottom line here is that you need to do some soul searching and decide if it's actually a forgivable offense in your world or not, and go from there. If you want to get back together with her, you first have to decide if you actually can forgive her for it (and I mean actually forgive her, walk the walk, commit to not being a suspicious person, etc.), and then do so, in your head and heart, before you ever say anything to her. Still feeling hurt about it means (to me) that you are not ready to forgive her yet (and/or you just need to get over it).
Should you get the point of genuine forgiveness, all you need to say to her is that you have worked through it and have forgiven her. But if you're serious about wanting to get back together (and aren't just wanting some revenge), then you need to make a conscious decision to put this behind you, a relationship based on suspicion and wanting revenge for hurt and a desire to humiliate the other person is not a relationship. Unless and until you feel capable of genuine forgiveness, there is no point in contacting her at all. And I do not agree that she should be the one to initiate contact, when someone breaks up with you (which is presumably what happened), and makes it clear that they no longer want you, crawling back and begging them to take you back is creepy Springer-show behaviour, it's not what reasonable, sane people do.
posted by biscotti at 12:28 PM on November 5, 2004
Should you get the point of genuine forgiveness, all you need to say to her is that you have worked through it and have forgiven her. But if you're serious about wanting to get back together (and aren't just wanting some revenge), then you need to make a conscious decision to put this behind you, a relationship based on suspicion and wanting revenge for hurt and a desire to humiliate the other person is not a relationship. Unless and until you feel capable of genuine forgiveness, there is no point in contacting her at all. And I do not agree that she should be the one to initiate contact, when someone breaks up with you (which is presumably what happened), and makes it clear that they no longer want you, crawling back and begging them to take you back is creepy Springer-show behaviour, it's not what reasonable, sane people do.
posted by biscotti at 12:28 PM on November 5, 2004
I say you feed back to her, via the mutual friends, that if she really thinks she made a mistake, she should get around to fixing that mistake.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:38 PM on November 5, 2004
posted by five fresh fish at 12:38 PM on November 5, 2004
I'm going to disagree with most people here.
This girl cheated on you. You were understandably hurt deeply.
Now she wants to get back. You think you'd like to forgive her and get back with her so things will be just the same again.
Except that they won't.
Do you really believe that you can ever go back to trusting her completely again? Do you think that the next time she's out late with an explanation (for instance), you will be able to shrug it off and say to yourself, "I'm not worried. I trust her completely." Or will your mind be going nuts?
Without this trust, do you think you'll have the foundation for a long-lasting relationship? More likely, it will be a guarded one that's laced with paranoia.
She may never cheat on you again, but it's possible your mind will never give you the peace of mind you need for the rest of your life.
You can do without that.
All IMHO, of course. Other people will have their own take on it.
posted by madman at 1:19 PM on November 5, 2004
This girl cheated on you. You were understandably hurt deeply.
Now she wants to get back. You think you'd like to forgive her and get back with her so things will be just the same again.
Except that they won't.
Do you really believe that you can ever go back to trusting her completely again? Do you think that the next time she's out late with an explanation (for instance), you will be able to shrug it off and say to yourself, "I'm not worried. I trust her completely." Or will your mind be going nuts?
Without this trust, do you think you'll have the foundation for a long-lasting relationship? More likely, it will be a guarded one that's laced with paranoia.
She may never cheat on you again, but it's possible your mind will never give you the peace of mind you need for the rest of your life.
You can do without that.
All IMHO, of course. Other people will have their own take on it.
posted by madman at 1:19 PM on November 5, 2004
Hey! This happened to me. We didn't speak for three years, then after several false-starts, went out for coffee just to try to be friendly. We were both shocked at how much fun we had together and how comfortable we still felt with each other after so much time had gone by. Also, after dating other people both of us has pretty much realized that we had taken for granted how rare it is to find a really good match.
In some ways you have to just start dating again. We went out to movies and just hung out a lot before we eventually had a soul-wrenching "what went wrong" conversation, which ultimately made us feel that much closer, and before too much time had gone by-- bam! We were back together.
Consider yourself lucky to have another chance to get to know her all over again. Find out what its like for the more-mature you to date the more-mature her. You might find you've grown apart, or you might find you've grown in ways that make you more compatible than you were the first time around. Call her up. Good luck.
posted by bonheur at 1:35 PM on November 5, 2004
In some ways you have to just start dating again. We went out to movies and just hung out a lot before we eventually had a soul-wrenching "what went wrong" conversation, which ultimately made us feel that much closer, and before too much time had gone by-- bam! We were back together.
Consider yourself lucky to have another chance to get to know her all over again. Find out what its like for the more-mature you to date the more-mature her. You might find you've grown apart, or you might find you've grown in ways that make you more compatible than you were the first time around. Call her up. Good luck.
posted by bonheur at 1:35 PM on November 5, 2004
If you can't swallow your pride and call her, just to talk, then my guess is you're not ready for this.
Forgiveness her is for your benefit, not her's. Once you forgive her, you're the one who gets to let go of the anger, the hurt, the feelings of betrayal, etc. Forgiveness is not something for her to earn from you, it's something for you to work out inside of you.
If you can't do that for yourself yet, I'd say you can't give her a fresh start either. You run the risk of repeating, or doing something very hurtful to her.
If I've misread you, then you should call her and see what happens. Stay in the moment, and don't treat every decision like it's going to affect your next 30 years. I know it's difficult-- godspeed.
posted by samh23 at 4:03 PM on November 5, 2004
Forgiveness her is for your benefit, not her's. Once you forgive her, you're the one who gets to let go of the anger, the hurt, the feelings of betrayal, etc. Forgiveness is not something for her to earn from you, it's something for you to work out inside of you.
If you can't do that for yourself yet, I'd say you can't give her a fresh start either. You run the risk of repeating, or doing something very hurtful to her.
If I've misread you, then you should call her and see what happens. Stay in the moment, and don't treat every decision like it's going to affect your next 30 years. I know it's difficult-- godspeed.
posted by samh23 at 4:03 PM on November 5, 2004
I agree with samh's thoughts about forgiveness -- it's a process (and it is a process, not just something that happens like magic, despite the impression given by priests granting absolution) that's really, at the end, for your sake. Which is why I would suggest that if and when you do find yourself having forgiven her, unless she asks directly if you've forgiven her, keep it to yourself.
I've found that announcing "I have forgiven you" in cases like this has the tendency to set up a weird dynamic, in which part of your role is still defined by being the wronged party -- only now, you get to claim the mantle of magnaminity on top of everything, too. That means that the terms of your relationship are still defined by A) the fact that she cheated, and B) your reaction to it -- which means ultimately, you're still grounded in the past.
If you do forgive her, let that forgiveness be evident in your words and actions if you contact her. Let your only objective be to find out if you both enjoy each other's company again. If you do progress from getting to know each other again into discussions of starting a new relationship (and it must be a new relationship, for both of you -- not simply resuming your old one and its attendant dynamics), then that's perhaps the better time to share the deeper story of "what went wrong" and how you both dealt with it.
Also, keep in mind: all your forgiveness in the world won't help her (or a potential future for the two of you) unless she's forgiven herself as well.
posted by scody at 4:29 PM on November 5, 2004
I've found that announcing "I have forgiven you" in cases like this has the tendency to set up a weird dynamic, in which part of your role is still defined by being the wronged party -- only now, you get to claim the mantle of magnaminity on top of everything, too. That means that the terms of your relationship are still defined by A) the fact that she cheated, and B) your reaction to it -- which means ultimately, you're still grounded in the past.
If you do forgive her, let that forgiveness be evident in your words and actions if you contact her. Let your only objective be to find out if you both enjoy each other's company again. If you do progress from getting to know each other again into discussions of starting a new relationship (and it must be a new relationship, for both of you -- not simply resuming your old one and its attendant dynamics), then that's perhaps the better time to share the deeper story of "what went wrong" and how you both dealt with it.
Also, keep in mind: all your forgiveness in the world won't help her (or a potential future for the two of you) unless she's forgiven herself as well.
posted by scody at 4:29 PM on November 5, 2004
Since it's an all opinion thread anyway...
Do you love her? That's pretty damn simple.
Something on the order of 50-80% of marriages involve cheating (depending on what stats you look at.) Divorce rates are over 50% (even in the red states.)
If you love her, and you are truly willing to let it go, trust, etc; accept that she made a mistake and grow to someplace new.
Call her, and make the two of yourselves happy. If you really want it - go to counseling together.
posted by filmgeek at 6:19 PM on November 5, 2004
Do you love her? That's pretty damn simple.
Something on the order of 50-80% of marriages involve cheating (depending on what stats you look at.) Divorce rates are over 50% (even in the red states.)
If you love her, and you are truly willing to let it go, trust, etc; accept that she made a mistake and grow to someplace new.
Call her, and make the two of yourselves happy. If you really want it - go to counseling together.
posted by filmgeek at 6:19 PM on November 5, 2004
Forgiveness her is for your benefit, not her's.
Truer words were never spoken.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:51 PM on November 5, 2004
Truer words were never spoken.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:51 PM on November 5, 2004
What Civil Disobedient said. And then, what madman said.
And now, what I'm saying: She doesn't deserve you. There are girls out there who won't cheat on you, who will tell you that she was stupid, and mean it. Let her sorrow and regret guide her to start fresh with someone else and not cheat on him, if she can bear the restraint.
posted by bingo at 10:11 PM on November 5, 2004
And now, what I'm saying: She doesn't deserve you. There are girls out there who won't cheat on you, who will tell you that she was stupid, and mean it. Let her sorrow and regret guide her to start fresh with someone else and not cheat on him, if she can bear the restraint.
posted by bingo at 10:11 PM on November 5, 2004
I say don't call her.
Instead, find a way to run into her "just by chance". Perhaps you can enlist the help of a mutual friend to invite you both to a party or something? Or run into each other at the movies or some other easy-to-escape situation. Strike up a conversation. Test the waters. Then, if all goes well, call her.
Calling her out of the blue may very well freak her out.
posted by anastasiav at 9:58 PM on November 6, 2004
Instead, find a way to run into her "just by chance". Perhaps you can enlist the help of a mutual friend to invite you both to a party or something? Or run into each other at the movies or some other easy-to-escape situation. Strike up a conversation. Test the waters. Then, if all goes well, call her.
Calling her out of the blue may very well freak her out.
posted by anastasiav at 9:58 PM on November 6, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by davebug at 10:19 AM on November 5, 2004