Subcontractor Woe
November 5, 2004 5:51 AM Subscribe
Joe subcontracts Jim to design a website for Sally. Jim submits design to Joe, who then pitches it to Sally. Sally rejects design. Even though the design is now worthless to Joe, doesn't Jim deserve payment for his services? What's a fair solution to this problem?
It all depends on what's written in Jim's subcontract. Jim did insist on a written contract, right?
posted by majick at 7:11 AM on November 5, 2004
posted by majick at 7:11 AM on November 5, 2004
Yeah, what did "subcontract" mean when Jim agreed to build the website?
If it was agreed that it'd be contingent on Sally's approval, then, since there's no approval, there's no cash in it for Jim (or Joe). Same if it was a "we'll split the cash 60/40 type agreement. However, if Jim agreed with Joe that he'd do the work for $20 / hour and then billed 10 hours on the project, somebody owes somebody some money.
Now, a written contract (even an email exchange) would be best. But even an oral contract is enforcable (IANAL - but I date a lawyer)... So if you offered your services and he accepted them, then the discussion where you talked about your services and his (future) acceptance of them, it's a contract. However, an agreement to agree is not a contract (i.e., the sentence "next week we'll figure out how I'll pay you for the screens you'll deliver to me," in and of itself, is not a contract.)
posted by zpousman at 7:20 AM on November 5, 2004
If it was agreed that it'd be contingent on Sally's approval, then, since there's no approval, there's no cash in it for Jim (or Joe). Same if it was a "we'll split the cash 60/40 type agreement. However, if Jim agreed with Joe that he'd do the work for $20 / hour and then billed 10 hours on the project, somebody owes somebody some money.
Now, a written contract (even an email exchange) would be best. But even an oral contract is enforcable (IANAL - but I date a lawyer)... So if you offered your services and he accepted them, then the discussion where you talked about your services and his (future) acceptance of them, it's a contract. However, an agreement to agree is not a contract (i.e., the sentence "next week we'll figure out how I'll pay you for the screens you'll deliver to me," in and of itself, is not a contract.)
posted by zpousman at 7:20 AM on November 5, 2004
I agree with Eekacat. The contract--even if it doesn't exist in written form anywhere--is between Joe and Jim, not Sally and Jim by way of Joe. Unless there was an explicit agreement to the contrary.
Almost all the work I do is subcontracted work via some kind of agency. The agency assumes the risk--that's part of the reason why they get to mark up the price of my work. And I know that the agencies I work for have been stiffed on a few occasions, or have had their clients renege on the original terms of the deal. And in a small subset of those cases, the agency asks me to share in their misfortune. My answer to them is always a politely worded variation on "tough."
I rarely have explicit per-job contracts with agencies, and I have never signed any kind of agreement with some of my most regular clients (which would be difficult to enforce, since some of them are in a different country). So far, I've been stiffed exactly once.
posted by adamrice at 7:56 AM on November 5, 2004
Almost all the work I do is subcontracted work via some kind of agency. The agency assumes the risk--that's part of the reason why they get to mark up the price of my work. And I know that the agencies I work for have been stiffed on a few occasions, or have had their clients renege on the original terms of the deal. And in a small subset of those cases, the agency asks me to share in their misfortune. My answer to them is always a politely worded variation on "tough."
I rarely have explicit per-job contracts with agencies, and I have never signed any kind of agreement with some of my most regular clients (which would be difficult to enforce, since some of them are in a different country). So far, I've been stiffed exactly once.
posted by adamrice at 7:56 AM on November 5, 2004
Jim doesn't deserve anything. Jim should get whatever compensation was agreed (preferably in writing) with Joe before he started any work. If Joe hired Jim, what Sally thinks is irrelevant.
posted by normy at 9:40 AM on November 5, 2004
posted by normy at 9:40 AM on November 5, 2004
By the way, none of this needs to be guesswork. Pick up a copy of the Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing and Ethical Guidelines. It will pay for itself after your first successful job.
posted by bcwinters at 10:37 AM on November 5, 2004
posted by bcwinters at 10:37 AM on November 5, 2004
bcwinters, is there something like that for programmers and web developers?
posted by SpecialK at 1:03 PM on November 5, 2004
posted by SpecialK at 1:03 PM on November 5, 2004
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posted by Eekacat at 6:48 AM on November 5, 2004