Misdemeanors on grad school applications
December 3, 2008 12:44 PM
My girlfriend has a conviction for reckless driving. Does she need to put it on grad school applications?
She was pulled over without her tail lights on at night, blew a 0.1, and received an OWI. She was able to plea it down to reckless driving, which while still bad, isn't an alcohol related offense. It's a misdemeanor, so she is technically obligated to put it on grad school applications. My question is: are they actually going to do a background check on this sort of thing? She's applying to master's programs in a liberal arts discipline, not law school or the FBI or anything. Nor are these programs in the state the incident occurred. It seems to us that a misdemeanor conviction on her application would look bad to an admissions committee of professor-types, but that they are very unlikely to investigate the criminal background of the average applicant if they have no reason to.
Are these suspicions correct?
She was pulled over without her tail lights on at night, blew a 0.1, and received an OWI. She was able to plea it down to reckless driving, which while still bad, isn't an alcohol related offense. It's a misdemeanor, so she is technically obligated to put it on grad school applications. My question is: are they actually going to do a background check on this sort of thing? She's applying to master's programs in a liberal arts discipline, not law school or the FBI or anything. Nor are these programs in the state the incident occurred. It seems to us that a misdemeanor conviction on her application would look bad to an admissions committee of professor-types, but that they are very unlikely to investigate the criminal background of the average applicant if they have no reason to.
Are these suspicions correct?
Does the application specifically ask for any convictions (i.e. felonies and misdemeanors)? Most applications of that type only ask for felonies, in which case she wouldn't need to include her misdemeanor conviction.
posted by amyms at 1:00 PM on December 3, 2008
posted by amyms at 1:00 PM on December 3, 2008
"Does she need to put it on grad school applications?"
"...she is technically obligated to put it on grad school applications."
Lying about a conviction would look worse than being honest about it.
If the application asks only about felonies, then theres no need to provide info about any non-felony convictions.
posted by jjb at 1:03 PM on December 3, 2008
"...she is technically obligated to put it on grad school applications."
Lying about a conviction would look worse than being honest about it.
If the application asks only about felonies, then theres no need to provide info about any non-felony convictions.
posted by jjb at 1:03 PM on December 3, 2008
If the school has an honor code and she breaks it in the application, how's that going to look if it *does* come out? I can't speak to how likely they are to background check, but I'm not sure this makes sense from a risk/reward perspective.
More to the point, I don't think the charge will matter all that much to an admissions committee. Honesty counts. I have a friend who disclosed some embarrassing citation or the like on his bar application - I think it was a public urination charge - and was admitted without anyone batting an eye. As he said afterwards, "I'm pretty sure you could eat a baby and still be admitted, as long as you don't lie about it."
I promise you that people have done worse things and gotten graduate degrees with aplomb. I suspect that this is going to be one of those silly lies that she regrets telling down the road. If she gets caught, she might regret it quite a bit.
On preview, a big "me, too!" to everything that's been mentioned.
posted by averyoldworld at 1:09 PM on December 3, 2008
More to the point, I don't think the charge will matter all that much to an admissions committee. Honesty counts. I have a friend who disclosed some embarrassing citation or the like on his bar application - I think it was a public urination charge - and was admitted without anyone batting an eye. As he said afterwards, "I'm pretty sure you could eat a baby and still be admitted, as long as you don't lie about it."
I promise you that people have done worse things and gotten graduate degrees with aplomb. I suspect that this is going to be one of those silly lies that she regrets telling down the road. If she gets caught, she might regret it quite a bit.
On preview, a big "me, too!" to everything that's been mentioned.
posted by averyoldworld at 1:09 PM on December 3, 2008
If she's really worried about it, she may be able to have the conviction vacated/expunged.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:46 PM on December 3, 2008
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 1:46 PM on December 3, 2008
The safest route is to put it down. it is doubtful that it'll hurt.
posted by NormandyJack at 2:11 PM on December 3, 2008
posted by NormandyJack at 2:11 PM on December 3, 2008
Another vote for yes to put it on (unless it only asks about felonies). I had a friend who didn't put their arrest on an application, they wound up getting fired when it came out. Their boss said they were doing a wonderful job and it was terrible they had to fire them, but they had no choice, rules are rules.
I once asked someone in HR about this at a company I used to work for. They said there's a ton of employees with misdemeanors, they don't give them more than a glance over unless an individual has a large number of them. I don't think it will hurt her chances, everyone makes mistakes.
posted by pokeedog at 2:13 PM on December 3, 2008
I once asked someone in HR about this at a company I used to work for. They said there's a ton of employees with misdemeanors, they don't give them more than a glance over unless an individual has a large number of them. I don't think it will hurt her chances, everyone makes mistakes.
posted by pokeedog at 2:13 PM on December 3, 2008
The school has a graduate adviser no doubt. This would be the person you should ask. They will be able to tell you if she can get away with omitting it or not.
I'd leave out the part about drunk driving, and just mention the actual reckless driving charge.
posted by wfrgms at 2:39 PM on December 3, 2008
I'd leave out the part about drunk driving, and just mention the actual reckless driving charge.
posted by wfrgms at 2:39 PM on December 3, 2008
On law school apps, at least, they're very specific about what types of offenses to list. Some schools want everything, even speeding tickets, listed if they're still on your record. Some schools only want felonies. Some schools want something in between. Has she looked at the apps themselves to see if they give her these instructions? If her offense falls under what they're asking for, she must list it.
They might find out anyway, and it's better to be honest than to lie and get caught.
posted by fructose at 2:55 PM on December 3, 2008
They might find out anyway, and it's better to be honest than to lie and get caught.
posted by fructose at 2:55 PM on December 3, 2008
I can see why you two feel it shouldn't count, but let admissions people reach that conclusion. They've probably seen it all before, and "professor types" probably care a lot more about the writing sample, proposed research topic, references, grades and GRE scores (if you're in the States) than a driving misdemeanor. It's kind of like worrying about GRE math scores when you want to do a PhD in English: you still have to report the scores, but it shouldn't put you off applying. As for the misdemeanor, they'll ask for an explanation if they're interested in her as a potential student, and telling the truth would be more responsible than lying and hoping to get away with it.
posted by woodway at 3:50 PM on December 3, 2008
posted by woodway at 3:50 PM on December 3, 2008
I have dealt with similar situations where I work; it all depends on how the question is worded. In our case the question asks for all convictions including traffic violations; we also do a background check and not only would the reckless driving show up but the original charge does as well. But we tend to be more strict even than many other hospitals so there is a lot of variation. And even when a credentialing application is flagged, it usually means we look at it a little more closely and is by no means an automatic denial. Look closely at the application and the instructions for filling it out and follow them to the letter. This sort of thing is pretty common so if she does need to report it she wouldn't be the first applicant in that situation; on the other hand she might not need to mention it at all.
posted by TedW at 4:08 PM on December 3, 2008
posted by TedW at 4:08 PM on December 3, 2008
If she is required to undergo certification to drive a school vehicle as a GTA or in some other capacity, a driving record check could be involved. Having to explain to her supervisor that she cannot drive her students to the museum archives because she got a reckless driving citation would be... not fun? So, yes, she should list it.
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 4:35 PM on December 3, 2008
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 4:35 PM on December 3, 2008
The red flags that will be raised are either
(a) you have a bunch of felonies or
(b) you willfully omitted something from your application
They're both bad red flags. Just explain that she got this driving infraction, and nobody will think that it's a big deal. It only becomes a big deal if she lies and it's unearthed.
Don't lie.
posted by craven_morhead at 4:37 PM on December 3, 2008
(a) you have a bunch of felonies or
(b) you willfully omitted something from your application
They're both bad red flags. Just explain that she got this driving infraction, and nobody will think that it's a big deal. It only becomes a big deal if she lies and it's unearthed.
Don't lie.
posted by craven_morhead at 4:37 PM on December 3, 2008
If it asks for felonies, don't put it down. If it asks for convictions, then put it down, noting the date of the offense (if that's helpful to you ... though if it was really recent, maybe it's best not to.)
Also, keep in mind that many states allow you to expunge convictions after a certain number of years. Figure out what the rules are in your state. You probably don't need an attorney for that, but you might want to talk to one to figure out the consequences of an expungement (is it forever gone? Can people like your employer still find out about your conviction if you get it expunged?)
Finally, don't assume that disclosing a misdemeanor conviction will screw up her application (though lying about it and being found out later will have nasty consequences.) Several of my friends at law school had convictions for DUII and one even had a felony. They all disclosed it and were let in (though the guy with a felony did have to strike a bargain with the law school to let him in in the first place. And he flunked out the next semester.)
posted by Happydaz at 8:03 PM on December 3, 2008
Also, keep in mind that many states allow you to expunge convictions after a certain number of years. Figure out what the rules are in your state. You probably don't need an attorney for that, but you might want to talk to one to figure out the consequences of an expungement (is it forever gone? Can people like your employer still find out about your conviction if you get it expunged?)
Finally, don't assume that disclosing a misdemeanor conviction will screw up her application (though lying about it and being found out later will have nasty consequences.) Several of my friends at law school had convictions for DUII and one even had a felony. They all disclosed it and were let in (though the guy with a felony did have to strike a bargain with the law school to let him in in the first place. And he flunked out the next semester.)
posted by Happydaz at 8:03 PM on December 3, 2008
she is technically obligated to put it on grad school applications.
The word "technically" seldom means anything. In this sentence, the sole meaning of the word "technically" is that you're asking our permission to pull a fast one. Face facts and rewrite your sentence: "she is obligated to put it on grad school applications."
posted by JimN2TAW at 4:46 PM on December 4, 2008
The word "technically" seldom means anything. In this sentence, the sole meaning of the word "technically" is that you're asking our permission to pull a fast one. Face facts and rewrite your sentence: "she is obligated to put it on grad school applications."
posted by JimN2TAW at 4:46 PM on December 4, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
Also, if it ever comes out that she lied on her application, her degree can be revoked at many universities.
posted by grouse at 12:59 PM on December 3, 2008