is an ebay fraud seller free?

November 13, 2005 12:11 PM

can i EVER get revenge on a fraudulent ebay seller?

ok i bought a $3,000 item on ebay a laptop, i never recieved it, i paypaled him the money, and he transfered those funds to his bank account, and then withrdrew it. He then informed me that on the day he was going to ship it out, his car was robbed, and everything (including the laptop and $3,000 cash) was stolen. he lives clear across the country from me, and i know i can get a charge back to my credit card, but is this guy going to get away with it? i mean its not like paypal or ebay can charge his account, as he withdrew the funds. im sure the feds wont do anything for only 3 grand, and the local police on both ends what could they do?

posted by airnxtz to law & government (290 comments total)

Take it to small-claims court.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 12:13 PM on November 13, 2005 [1 favorite]

You seem to have bad luck on eBay.

The answer is, probably not. There have been a few isolated (albeit publicized) cases of victims tracking down scammers; but in the vast majority of cases, people have to eat the loss. There are a number of reasons for that, but one is that police are busy -- so in your case, since (assuming you're right) you won't lose any money, the police probably won't bother with your "case." Consider yourself lucky, and learn the lesson: eBay isn't for expensive items.
posted by cribcage at 12:19 PM on November 13, 2005

Call your state's Office of the Attorney General for some advice.
posted by JanetLand at 12:21 PM on November 13, 2005

even if i do find some one who is willing to help, they cant prove he is lying about the robbery, so he will have a strong defense right?
posted by airnxtz at 12:25 PM on November 13, 2005

Well, what if he actually was robbed?

You're getting the money back from your credit card company. Unless you have proof that you were lied to, I doubt anyone would take your "case"; after all, you got your money back.
posted by elisabeth r at 12:26 PM on November 13, 2005 [1 favorite]

(ianal) The robbery should be irrelevant, shouldn't it? It sucks, but he owes you a laptop or $3,000 one way or the other.
posted by boo_radley at 12:28 PM on November 13, 2005

Proof is irrelevant. This won't ever end up in court. The police won't even return your call: You didn't lose any money. Your credit card company will stick PayPal, and PayPal will respond by freezing your account and the seller's account. Then they'll recoup their losses by freezing someone else's account on some nonsense claim.

Unless you'd prefer to forego your chargeback and try to collect directly from the seller...? In that case, you'll probably lose your $3,000 -- but at least you might get some sergeant to return your phone call. Your choice.

Basically, this guy gets away with it. Console yourself with the knowledge that people who do things like this usually spend time in jail eventually, for one thing or another.
posted by cribcage at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2005

Your credit card company will want their $3,000 back. If you've got a ThugZ card instead of one of those piddly little Visa cards, I'm sure he'll be fearing for his life.

seriously, this is what credit cards are for, your money will be returned, and revenge will be sought on your behalf, why worry?
posted by onalark at 12:39 PM on November 13, 2005

boo_radley is right. You're not responsible for whether or not he lost the 3G's and the laptop. He owes you one or the other, and if he doesn't come up with the money, then you should take him to small claims court.

1. Document everything. Every conversation you have with the guy; every email exchange.

2. In the future, use escrow. This is exactly what it's for.

3. You need to consider whether you're buying from reputable buyers.
posted by bshort at 12:42 PM on November 13, 2005

Airnxtz, you sure have your problems with Ebay! On October 15 you told us that you sold a laptop on Ebay but that the buyer reported receiving a "jug of water." How did that turn out? A week earlier on another site you reported selling a laptop to someone who claimed only to have received "'a rock' wrapped in bubble wrap." Was that the same transaction? Both came after you had an AskMe question about what theoretically might happen if you sold someone something and they never got it--a question that raised the suspicions of some members. I don't see either of your problematic transactions in your feedback history.
posted by LarryC at 1:44 PM on November 13, 2005 [2 favorites]

This does seem a little strange, especially how the question and follow-up is worded. For example, you say the seller transferred the funds from Paypal to his bank account, then withdrew it. What do you mean by that?

And then this statement, "even if i do find some one who is willing to help, they cant prove he is lying about the robbery, so he will have a strong defense right?"

Interesting.
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 1:57 PM on November 13, 2005

Soooooooo...
What's the deal here, airnxtz?
posted by boo_radley at 2:00 PM on November 13, 2005

I have a bad feeling about this.
posted by languagehat at 2:04 PM on November 13, 2005

Also, how would you know that he withdrew the funds after transferring them to his bank account?
posted by reverendX at 2:06 PM on November 13, 2005 [1 favorite]

Airnxtz, last time around several of us told you to use escrow. If your story is true, you didn't. As such, you're too ignorant to educate. If your story is not true, you're playing us. Either way, shut up.
posted by solid-one-love at 2:13 PM on November 13, 2005

he told he he withdrew the funds from his bank account after paypal transfered it there, thats how the cash was stolen from his car, he said he would make payment arrangements with me and see what he could do
posted by airnxtz at 2:32 PM on November 13, 2005

Could we maybe get a link to the auction? That'd be helpful.
posted by boo_radley at 2:50 PM on November 13, 2005

Why aren't you responding to LarryC's post, airnxtz? I'll ask flat out... are you trying to run some kind of scam where you make these false reports or something? It sure seems odd that you'd lose three laptops in the space of a month or so.
posted by MegoSteve at 2:52 PM on November 13, 2005

no scam, i didnt come here to get interrogated, i just needed advice
posted by airnxtz at 3:02 PM on November 13, 2005

Escrow, escrow, escrow! I'd use it on any ebay auction higher then $50. If the seller doesn't accept escrow than there is something wrong and you shouldn't be buying anything from them.
posted by meta87 at 3:06 PM on November 13, 2005

This isn't a scam? Should I email this buyer and see how she made out?
posted by MegoSteve at 3:07 PM on November 13, 2005

Jeez, that's sleazy. Also probably an illegal lottery.
posted by words1 at 3:26 PM on November 13, 2005

Come for the advice, stay for the interrogation. Your story (stories) are really, really weird, especially when you've had the same fraud problem repeatedly. It'd be much easier to offer you advice if you could at least prove (in part by posting your auction's url) that you actually had this happen to you.
posted by boo_radley at 3:27 PM on November 13, 2005 [1 favorite]

random stranger's suspisions means nothing to me , i have nothing to hide or be afraid of , i came here for advice, thats all im here for. i do appreciate the people who actually contribute to my concerns though =)
posted by airnxtz at 3:29 PM on November 13, 2005

So no URL forthcoming, then?
posted by boo_radley at 3:30 PM on November 13, 2005

Hmmm... airnxtz hasn't provided us with a link to the auction in question yet, but I do see two recent laptop auctions where he was a *seller*:

Nov 9th auction
Nov 10th auction
posted by sanitycheck at 3:30 PM on November 13, 2005

his seller feedback...
posted by HuronBob at 3:46 PM on November 13, 2005

If you have nothing to hide, you're okay with giving us your phone number or address, right? And if there's a willing MeFite in the neighbourhood, you'll be available for a face-to-face at the local coffeeshop, right?
posted by five fresh fish at 4:47 PM on November 13, 2005

IANAL but, as a lawyer, I would recommend you leave these fraudulent eBay auction conspiracies to more seasoned (and more intelligent) grifters. Anyone who sent be a box of rocks, or jug of water in the place of a $3500 computer would not find Bakersfield, CA a large enough place to hide.
posted by HyperBlue at 5:04 PM on November 13, 2005

Why do I get the feeling that airnxtz is pretending to be a buyer when he's asking a question so that he can get a feel for some of the legal consequences he the seller might be looking forward to by pulling a laptop scam on eBay?
posted by MegoSteve at 5:04 PM on November 13, 2005

u guys are too funny...
posted by airnxtz at 5:26 PM on November 13, 2005

Good Lord, did everyone check out that link MegoSteve posted? Airnxtz is selling a "$500 Walmart / Sams Club gift card" but the item description reads: "YOU ARE BIDDING ON ONE WALMART GIFT CARD WITH A GUARANTEED MYSTERY VALUE OF $5....to...$500!! THERE IS A STRONG CHANCE OF RECIEVING A $450 OR $500 GIFT CARD!"

What a sleaze.
posted by LarryC at 5:30 PM on November 13, 2005

Y'all missed the (now deleted) MeTa thread about airnxtz's MySpace profile. At the time, it seemed quite mean-spirited; but in light of his obvious [fill_in_the_blank] on eBay, it seems apropos.
posted by cribcage at 5:31 PM on November 13, 2005

Oh, r we?
posted by interrobang at 5:31 PM on November 13, 2005

The gods of AskMe karma dictate that I link this.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:33 PM on November 13, 2005 [1 favorite]

That link that MegoSteve posted makes me want to chew bubblegum and kick ass. But I really fucking hate bubblegum.
posted by loquacious at 5:39 PM on November 13, 2005

Damn, that auction for a $500 Walmart/Sams Club gift card could mean that the winning bidder paid $290.02 for a $5 gift card! That's just awful.
posted by Serena at 8:54 PM on November 13, 2005

That's just awful.

And almost certain.
posted by solid-one-love at 9:54 PM on November 13, 2005

That powerbook scam article made my day. Thanks goodnewsfortheinsane!
posted by meta87 at 10:14 PM on November 13, 2005

Hurray for the AskMe crime squad!
posted by lorbus at 10:34 PM on November 13, 2005

meta (ages ago - sorry).
posted by andrew cooke at 5:46 AM on November 14, 2005

A week earlier on another site you reported selling a laptop to someone who claimed only to have received "'a rock' wrapped in bubble wrap."

I wonder where he got that idea...

THIS BIDDER ROCKS AND RULES!!!!!!!!!! KEEP ON ROCKIN ON EBAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by eddydamascene at 7:17 AM on November 14, 2005

Okay everyone, here's the buyer's side of the story with airnxtz and the ebay notebook computer....

I am the lucky individual purchasing the notebook computer from airnixtz via ebay Nov 10, 2005. Yes, yes, oh yes, it looked to good to be true, but I have seen crazier things happen in my 5 years on ebay, and thought I'd take a chance. Fortunately, I paid using paypal, unfortunately it appears that it might be a problem at some point, maybe paypal or ebay ends up the loser. Shipment was supposed to be same day, but that did not happen. Yesterday, he emailed me to say it would be today, Nov 14. So far, I have not received a tracking number yet today, but I did receive positive feedback from him for my prompt payment--oh boy!!

A couple of fellow ebayers directed me to this site, so I thought I'd join and post my thoughts. Will post again when I have more info.
posted by m5biemer at 2:38 PM on November 14, 2005

Good that you got directed here, bad that it happened when it did.
posted by kenko at 5:58 PM on November 14, 2005

Hmm... Well, IMO it wasn't just the purchaser, but all of metafilter that got ripped off.

I think we all should chip in (at least with our 31337 internet detective 5k1115) and bust this mofo for betraying our trust.
posted by delmoi at 6:24 PM on November 14, 2005

It's screwed up, but I can't believe that m5biemer is actually ebay's m5biemer unless he officially declares himself scammed.

m5, if you're not airnxtz, then I wish you the best of luck getting your money back.
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:14 PM on November 14, 2005

Strange...his myspace account doesn't appear in his mefi profile at this moment. I wonder if adding his username to the end of the url will get me there...

http://www.myspace.com/airnxtz

Golly...it worked!
posted by horsewithnoname at 7:39 PM on November 14, 2005

Let's just see what we know about the alleged scammer, airnxtz.

He used to go by airnupw.

Airnxtz's name is allegedly Aaron.

This is allegedly airnxtz's myspace website.

This is allegedly his photo on "Face The Jury".

His AIM screenname is allegedly airnxtz.

Airnxtz allegedly lives in Bakersfield, CA, where he allegedly makes more than $.25M/yr. If this is actually true, it should be extremely easy to find his house in that town.

This is allegedly airnupw/airnxtz's photos and profile on American Singles.

He allegedly attends CSU Bakersfield, as a psychology major.

He allegedly posted at The Auction Board on 8 Oct 2005 claiming a laptop purchaser received a rock in bubble wrap.

On 30 Oct 2005 he asked what should happen if something should hypothetically get lost in transit.
He posted here at AskMe on 15 Oct 2005, claiming a laptop purchaser received a jug of water.
On 13 Nov 2005 he claimed somebody screwed him as a buyer of a $3k laptop.

He sold a laptop on 10 Nov 2005..
Another one on 9 Nov 2005.

He sold the "mystery" gift card (with a $500 gift card title) on 2 Nov 2005.
He sold a $500 gift card on 8 Nov 2005.
He failed to sell this Kohl's Return Card.
He sold this Kohl's return card on 6 Nov 2005 and received positive feedback.

He allegedly posted on Health Boards stating that he could not ejaculate at all, and that he has severe social anxiety

He allegedly fixed that by taking 5htp.


There are other accounts with the same name at:
Get Big
Baktopia
Muscle Mayhem
Rate My Body

A girl from Bakersfield once posted this transcript of a chat with a user called AirN UPW:

This guy always bugs me and i always ignore him...after ignoring him he sent me some pics of him and i emailed him back and said 'why r u sending me these im ignoring u for a reason then he i.med me

AirN UPW [10:11 PM]: hey whats up i got ur email
CrAzY13iTcH86 [10:12 PM]: ok
AirN UPW [10:12 PM]: so how old ru
CrAzY13iTcH86 [10:13 PM]: im busy
CrAzY13iTcH86 [10:13 PM]: bye
AirN UPW [10:13 PM]: wut u doin
CrAzY13iTcH86 [10:15 PM]: homework...i think im too young for u
AirN UPW [10:15 PM]: well how old
CrAzY13iTcH86 [10:15 PM]: 14
AirN UPW [10:15 PM]: dam bye

Im actually 18...maybe he wont i.m me anymore

*Note: I have no idea if any of these people are actually the same people. The evidence is far from complete.
posted by I Love Tacos at 9:00 PM on November 14, 2005 [5 favorites]

What kind of idiot uses the same screen name for every single embarassing thing he's ever committed on the internet?
posted by S.C. at 9:14 PM on November 14, 2005

I Love Tacos, that's awesome. Funny and awesome. PMSL.
posted by sjvilla79 at 9:19 PM on November 14, 2005

The sale on 9 Nov was won by pat3897. This account was created on 9 Nov and is no longer a registered user.

After ignoring his negative feedback on ebay, he finally addresses his issues on 24 Oct 2005. Was this criminal mastermind prepping his account for the scam?
posted by horsewithnoname at 9:33 PM on November 14, 2005

This is fun. Can we contact his ex-girlfriends and get them in on this?
posted by LarryC at 9:52 PM on November 14, 2005 [1 favorite]

LarryC: I'll buy you a taco and a beer if you manage to contact his ex-girlfriends, and get their help!
posted by I Love Tacos at 9:54 PM on November 14, 2005

Someone needs to save all related HTML files for posterity.
posted by delmoi at 10:10 PM on November 14, 2005

m5biemer: Welcome to MeFi; stick around, we're awesome.
posted by abcde at 10:56 PM on November 14, 2005

(Accidently posted this in the MetaTalk thread, but wanted it to appear here. Sorry.)
So I decided to go ahead and email the eBay winner of the Wal-Mart card auction. Not very surprising, her reply:

About This Member
sandral907( 930)
Positive Feedback: 99.6%
Member Since: Feb-17-05
Location: AK, United States
Registered On: www.ebay.com

I have not recieved the card yet, but I am feeling that I got ripped off. I paid nearly $300 for this card. The seller contacted me that the listing was ended early and would I send a M.O. instead of using paypal. They said they were having trouble recieving payment throuh paypal. I paid because that seemed to be the thing to do to avoid bad feedback, but now I wish I hadn't. I think I have just lost a lot of money. Thanks for the heads up but since I paid with a M.O. I don't know if there is anything I can do. This is the second time this has happened to me this month and although I love buying on e bay, I think I will stop because I am now out around$500 with nothing to show. Thanks for your note. I recieved another this am from another fellow member regarding this same card. Have a great week.
Sandy


Truly, that wasn't the best of decisions to make. But that's how scammers make their fare.

It really does make me even more bitter towards this person, though.
posted by disillusioned at 6:21 AM on November 15, 2005

Hey Aaron, if the lynch mob here is somehow mistaken and you'd like to defend yourself, send me an email at [e-mail], and I'll post it here for you. Surely there's something that everyone's missing, right? You've got to admit that all the evidence seems to say you're guilty. I want to give you an opportunity to clear your name before things get out of hand.

With all the friends in Bakersfield that you list on your myspace page, the picture of what looks like your mom, dad, and brothers, that can also be found there, and eBay's list of sellers who have shipped you rap cds, video games, and ankle bracelets, it seems pretty likely that someone could find you if they really wanted to. Surely you realize that all that information has already been archived, so there's no point in trying to remove it. But you didn't really leave yourself that wide open in the first place, did you? Drop me a line, bro. Let's get this cleared up before it gets even uglier.
posted by Buzz at 8:40 AM on November 15, 2005

Buzz, good on you for offering him an opportunity to come clean and explain himself. Matt's pulled his posting priveleges so you might want to email him directly. Though I can't find an email addy for him now. There might be one in all that ugliness that is the MySpace page.

This should be picked up by the news folks.
posted by fenriq at 9:49 AM on November 15, 2005

fenriq: that's a brilliant idea. Perhaps some of the victims would like to pitch their story to the Bakersfield news departments.

KBAK-TV 29 . . . CBS
KBFX-LP 58 . . . FOX
KERO-TV 23 . . . ABC
KGET-TV 17 . . . NBC

I don't know which of those, if any, have locally produced news segments, but that "mystery gift card" seems like it would pique their interest, especially given the surrounding activities.
posted by I Love Tacos at 9:59 AM on November 15, 2005

My favourite AskMe. Ever.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:20 PM on November 15, 2005

Try this email address, it was the same used in the paypal transaction:

[e-mail]

He was responding to my email messages up through yesterday, but nothing since. Need to wait 10 days before I can contact ebay fraud, will do so then. Maybe my negative feedback will keep him from doing any more damage under his current account. Guess nothing can stop him from setting up shop again.
posted by m5biemer at 3:01 PM on November 15, 2005

m5: can you ptu a link to this URL in the feedback?
posted by delmoi at 3:20 PM on November 15, 2005

Who wants to bet Aaron is still reading this thread?

I doubt he'll surface to explain his side of the story. But this page currently ranks among the top results of a Google search for "airnxtz." I presume his friends and family know his AOL/AIM handle, his MySpade ID, etc. You'd be surprised how many people indulge "ego searches" on Google for people they know...Aaron.

Your eBay feedback should scare away future bidders; but what you should really consider is the possibility that someone you know -- a friend, maybe a potential date or ex-girlfriend -- will search for your AIM handle and find this thread. Gossip spreads fast. Being reviled by strangers on the internet is one thing...but if people you actually know begin thinking you're a coward and a crook, that's a whole 'nother story.

That's what I'd be thinking about, if I were you.
posted by cribcage at 3:44 PM on November 15, 2005

There's got to be some way to get this guy investigated for mail fraud. Seriously.
posted by agropyron at 5:40 PM on November 15, 2005

We could always fight fire with fire, overbidding on every one of his auctions with a new, bogus account. That way, we protect the otherwise clueless bidders about to step into his remarkably expensive traps.
posted by disillusioned at 5:57 PM on November 15, 2005

Just to let you all know, I have been in email contact with him today. He contacted me this morning, from the aol address listed above. I haven't received permission to post his side of the story here, but I would like to remind everyone that there is more than enough information available that any interested law enforcement agency could track him down with ease, if that actually becomes necessary. I'd also like to stress something that everyone surely knows already, which is that attempting to deliver vigilante justice to the guy would probably be a very bad idea.

I'm trying to keep an open mind about the whole thing, and not jump to any conclusions before I have all the facts. I'm still holding out a sliver of hope that this is all an incredibly improbable misunderstanding. With any kind of luck it will get resolved without anyone else doing something stupid. I hope you'll all agree that there wouldn't be much harm in giving it some time, instead of rushing to escalate the situation.
posted by Buzz at 6:43 PM on November 15, 2005

WTF? Someone bid $482 for an unseen $500 gift card?

By bidding on this item, buyer agrees seller is not responsible for lost/damaged packages or errors made by USPS. If USPS loses item or buyer recieves it damaged, seller will refund 1/4 of final bid price, as an act of sympathy
posted by blag at 6:54 PM on November 15, 2005

I haven't received permission to post his side of the story here...

Oh, please. What, is it copyrighted? If the guy really emailed you, then post it. If he didn't -- or if he did, but you're going to respect some imaginary line of etiquette about AskMe scams -- then just don't post at all. "I know a secret, but I can't tell you." Lame.

I hope you'll all agree that there wouldn't be much harm in giving it some time, instead of rushing to escalate the situation.

Tell that to the guy who's already mailed his money order, waiting to see whether his laptop will arrive. The escalation ship has sailed.
posted by cribcage at 7:14 PM on November 15, 2005

Buzz, would you like to purchase my mystery gift card?
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:22 PM on November 15, 2005

I hope you'll all agree that there wouldn't be much harm in giving it some time, instead of rushing to escalate the situation.

I don't agree with this at all. Every day that goes by, it becomes more likely that AirN XTZ/AirN UPW/airnxtz/airupw/Aaron has spent the profits of his scams.
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:24 PM on November 15, 2005

To say nothing of the fact that:

I haven't received permission to post his side of the story here...

...doesn't jive with:

Hey Aaron, if the lynch mob here is somehow mistaken and you'd like to defend yourself, send me an email at [e-mail], and I'll post it here for you.

posted by cribcage at 8:04 PM on November 15, 2005

Post it!
posted by sjvilla79 at 8:10 AM on November 16, 2005

Update on the laptop scam, I am confident now that it is a scam, in case anyone was wondering...

Airnxtz emailed me last nite, said that the computer and the cash were stolen out of his car, and that he was going to somehow pay me back--I had posted a negative feedback for him yesterday on ebay declaring him a fraud and scammer--he assures me that this in not accurate. Funny how his reply to me resembles his postings on this site over the weekend regarding the stolen cash and laptop. Maybe he could give me a copy of the police report-would definitely be grand larceny, worthy of reporting to the local authorities.

His email came from [e-mail]. If I knew how to post his replies on this site, I would do so. If someone can help, please advise.
posted by m5biemer at 8:35 AM on November 16, 2005

Now I'm really starting to worry about that body disposal post.
posted by hugsnkisses at 8:51 AM on November 16, 2005 [1 favorite]

If you used PayPal and paid via credit card, dispute the charges with your credit card company. They will then reverse the charges.

You will then lose your PayPal account, unfortunately, and possibly your EBay account, but you won't be out three grand. Airnxtz, however, will still be on the hook for $3K. He'll just be on the hook to PayPal/EBay, and they have bigger lawyers than you do. Let them sue him, so you don't have to.
posted by solid-one-love at 8:54 AM on November 16, 2005

Fingers too fast on the submit button...

Pointing to this thread in your negative feedback to him would be useful, too. It would also probably be a good idea to e-mail SafeHarbour with the URLs of airnxtz's threads on Metafilter.

And I don't think it would be out of order to contact the District Attorney for Bakersfield and to contact the Postmaster and file mail fraud charges.

Through his posts here, he has shown strong evidence of intend to defraud.

But first thing's first: contact your credit card company. Often you will be unable to dispute the charges after 30 days, so start the process now.
posted by solid-one-love at 8:59 AM on November 16, 2005

m5biemer: Posting his emails here shouldn't be difficult; just cut and paste. If you need help, feel free to forward them to me and I'll post them for you. My email is in my profile (click on cribcage below).

You've already posted feedback...but you can add a second line by posting a Follow-Up comment to that feedback. It will appear immediately below your current feedback in Aaron's profile. Just cut and paste the URL from this thread:

http://ask.metafilter.com/mefi/27155

I don't know that eBay allows URLs in feedback, but it's worth a shot.
posted by cribcage at 9:28 AM on November 16, 2005

I had some friends fall victim to this sort of thing recently, although not on ebay. One had this to say:

Fraud complaints with Visa cards *require* you block the card and they should be filed with your financial institution areawithin 60 days (2 statement cycles) of the charge showing on your card. Depending on how the transaction was performed (meaning which transaction code was used) a fraud claim may or may not require an affidavit of loss/fraud (which has to be notarized).

OTOH, you can also file a claim for not receiving the merchandise (as opposed to fraud) and avoid blocking your card. All you have to do in that case is demonstrate you attempted to resolve the issue with the merchant and were unsuccessful. If the amount is small (under $50 or so) your financial institution may very well give you a permanent credit for the amount, then attempt to force a chargeback on your behalf to recoup their loss. Amounts perm credited will vary by financial institution, but the Visa regs are pretty straightforward and your financial institution can assist you in attempting to recover your loss.

You could also file a claim at the Internet Fraud Complaint Center and there's a good page of advice here about appealing to Paypal, including some handy links to other law enforcement sites.

Additionally there's a whole mess of information about the guy a few posts up, whilst harassment is not the smartest thing it might not hurt to call his college and make some enquiries.
posted by hugsnkisses at 9:51 AM on November 16, 2005

Well, Buzz: is that good enough for you?
posted by blag at 10:02 AM on November 16, 2005

Interesting wording for the title of this post, no?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 11:02 AM on November 16, 2005

Well, Buzz: is that good enough for you?

At this point, yeah, it is. Believe me, I enjoy a good ol' metafilter pile-on as much as the next guy, particularly when it's fuelled by perfectly justifiable indignation. The entertainment therein is truly the best of the web. I just don't see how it would help this situation, though, so I'm not willing to stoke that fire at this point in time.

Look, if Aaron is guilty, he knows it, and he knows that he's screwed up enough that he's never going to get away with it. If he's innocent, as improbable as that seems, then he deserves the benefit of the doubt. In either case he deserves an opportunity to get out of the mess he's in, and to try to make things right. That's my motivation. I know it doesn't do anything to satisfy the bloodlust in here, but I don't think that's really the important issue yet.
posted by Buzz at 11:14 AM on November 16, 2005

Now he's trying to tell me that he will have to make payments to me as restitution, he does not have the cash or the laptop, both were stolen. Unfortunately, with all the ground work he laid here before the actual ebay transaction, this is just part of the scam. I have asked him for a copy of the police report he must have filed, I know I would be filing one if someone broke into my car and stole over $5k of stuff!!

Unfortunately, under ebay rules, you have to wait 10 days to complain about non-receipt of an item you purchase, so I will have to wait until Nov 20th to start the process.
posted by m5biemer at 12:00 PM on November 16, 2005

You've tragically missed the point, if you think this thread is about indignation or bloodlust. It's about doing something productive: establishing an archive to represent airnxtz, to establish exactly what he is, for future (and present) victims as well as his friends and family.

Maybe he emailed you. Maybe he didn't. I tend to believe the latter; but regardless, unless you have something more to contribute than patting yourself on the back, keep it to yourself. If I'm going to keep someone's secrets, I don't begin by announcing that they told me.

I'm confident Aaron is still reading this thread -- and we all know, innocent people scream bloody murder when they're wrongly accused. If he wanted to post, he could email you, he could email someone else...hell, he could blow another $5 on a new login. But he hasn't. His abrupt disappearance speaks volumes: It's exactly the result you expect when you shine a flashlight on a cockroach.
posted by cribcage at 12:10 PM on November 16, 2005

m5biemer: eBay's policies suck.

You said that you paid via PayPal. Did you transfer money from a checking account or PayPal account, or did you use a credit card? If the latter, you should be OK. Contact the issuing bank's fraud department, and tell them you want to file a complaint immediately.

The funniest thing about all this...? When Aaron pretended he was the victim, I advised him there was probably no recourse. That's no longer true. We've cobbled together quite a damning trail, here -- largely thanks to I Love Tacos -- and it's exactly the sort of unique story that can grab the interest of a bored detective. Like I said before: If I were him, at this point, I'd worry about offline, real-world ramifications.
posted by cribcage at 12:17 PM on November 16, 2005

Buzz: This thread isn't only about fire stoking or indignation; it's about helping m5biemer get his/her cash back. By making as much noise as possible about this fraud, we are helping to solve the problem that we may have (inadvertantly) assisted. We're reminding Aaron that he's not getting away with anything, we're finding out as much information on him as possible to assist in any recovery efforts, and, as cribcage points out, we're creating a Google-able record of his activities to help prevent future fraud. Yes, I'm pissed off. So are others. But we're channelling this anger into something useful, and any further information you can provide us with will help. If not, shut up with the "I know something you don't know" stuff.

If he's innocent, as improbable as that seems, then he deserves the benefit of the doubt.

You seriously believe this? He posts a message about "What recourse is available if an eBay scammer claims to have the product stolen from out of his car?" and then, miraculously, the same thing happens to him the following week? You're defending the indefensible.

OK, onto productive stuff: m5biemer: any further information you can provide on this chap will help. Do you have a copy of his full name, for example? What email address/ real address was used for the PayPal transaction?

According to his Myspace profile, he was kicked out of Bakersfield High in 1998. There are no students named Aaron listed on their 1998 alumni list though someone named "Aaron Graham" graduated in 1999. Again, according to Myspace he then moved to West High (fantastic flash intro). Sadly I couldn't find any alumni information on their site.

The CSU Bakersfield site seems like it could be useful; sadly the campus directory only lists academic staff but I'll keep looking. I'm tempted to email everyone in the Psychology department with a photo of him to see if they can help to identify him. Don't know whether that's crossing the line, though... I guess if I just say that I'm a long-lost friend they may help.

What was that creepy site that provides personal information on anyone for a small fee? Did we get in touch with the other laptop purchaser?
posted by blag at 1:37 PM on November 16, 2005

The email address I have is the [e-mail]. That was the one given in the ebay auction closing.

I fortunately used a credit card for my paypal payment. I had to go after another ebayer 2 years ago and was able to get 100% of my funds back. I just hate to see someone or some organization lose to the scammers. We all end up paying for it in the long run.
posted by m5biemer at 2:52 PM on November 16, 2005

He's responded to your feedback:

Reply by airnxtz: item was STOLEN from my posession, seller is being REFUNDED

posted by blag at 4:33 PM on November 16, 2005

Just as an update, I've talked to the Bakersfield police department and I'm awaiting a call back from a detective in the computer crime detail. It sounds like there is at least $10k in fraud here, given several fake laptop sales and all these bogus $500 gift cards.

He's definitely posting from a real Bakersfield Road Runner cable modem address. I'll keep everyone updated on the progress.
posted by mathowie at 5:04 PM on November 16, 2005

hugsnkisses wrote: Fraud complaints with Visa cards *require* you block the card....

Most likely that's referring specifically to credit card fraud, in which the charging of the card is itself the fraudulent act, so that wouldn't apply here.
posted by nobody at 5:42 PM on November 16, 2005

Heh. Good work, matt.
posted by blag at 5:45 PM on November 16, 2005

Yeah. I'd be pissed if someone were using my site to learn how better to commit fraud, too.
posted by Justinian at 1:06 AM on November 17, 2005

Just to set the record straight regarding airnxtz's response to my negative feedback, there is a catch to the phrase "the seller is being refunded"--he's asked me accept a payment plan from him, in other words, there is no money to pay me back. How stupid does one have to be to leave a laptop and cash in a car, you're inviting it to be stolen. When pushed about getting a copy of a police report, he basically states that the theft has not been reported as the police would be powerless to help him, even alluding to the fact that his apartment had been broken into recently as well.

Does anyone really think this is a legitimate attempt to refund my money?? I think not.
posted by m5biemer at 8:31 AM on November 17, 2005

It seems to me that at the very least you would want to police to come out and generate a report to cover your ass. Stupid scammer
posted by Cool Alex at 8:55 AM on November 17, 2005

Isn't it wonderful how eBay, even after having umpteen people email them this thread, still hasn't banned the guy's account? How can they even pretend to be serious about fraud on their site when something obvious like this just slips right through the cracks (or is deliberately ignored).
posted by MegoSteve at 10:37 AM on November 17, 2005

Just want to say thanks to matthowie. I JUST recieved a response from eBay's Fraud department this morning where they give me a canned spam message referring to how to report questionable messages found on their bulletin boards. After I gave them a long and detailed email describing how I came to learn about airnxtz's activities and what I am concerned he may be up to (this was before we were aware of the two laptop sales).

I left a very terse response that they should actually read my email again, but I'm not holding my breath. No wonder scammers feel they can get away with it.
posted by cavalier at 10:51 AM on November 17, 2005

m5biemer: I don't know whether Matt has emailed you, but the reply above from mathowie is from the owner of this website. If Matt is taking a personal interest in contacting the police about airnxtz...well, that's pretty much the atom bomb, as far as MetaFilter is concerned.

Obviously Aaron can't give you a police report about a theft that didn't happen; and if anyone is uncertain about whether Aaron's car might really have been vandalized, I'd direct them to the very top of this thread.

Buzz: If you really did receive any emails from Aaron, you may as well post them. Whatever you hoped to accomplish by "luring" Aaron into a deadfall is now moot; if Matt's on the case, he has the means to identify Aaron far beyond what you or I could ever deduce by poring over Google.
posted by cribcage at 11:11 AM on November 17, 2005

The next step, I'd think, would be to make a lovely little Googlebomb for this whole affair or possibly even a Wiki or add it to whatever eBay scam wiki is already being created.

Mathowie, thanks for that update. I'm glad that this is being pursued by the authorities.

cavalier, I honestly don't think anyone ever reads those emails. Its frustrating that they create the system and then completely ignore it. Perhaps the write up of this affair could include some mention of eBay's non-participation in tracking down a crooked seller?
posted by fenriq at 11:36 AM on November 17, 2005

Wow, this was an amazing thread. Way to go, gang.
posted by dejah420 at 11:48 AM on November 17, 2005

I think I heard airnxtz say, "...and I'd have gotten away with it, too! If it weren't for them nosey kids. And their dog!"
posted by Doohickie at 12:13 PM on November 17, 2005 [1 favorite]

I wonder if Buzz = airnxtz.

In either case he deserves an opportunity to get out of the mess he's in, and to try to make things right.

No he does not. If he is innocent, he will not be prosecuted.

If he is guilty, no way does he deserve to get out of the mess. We have evidence that he has time and again screwed people over. There is no reason to believe that he won't do it so long as he continues to get away with it.

His victims deserve justice. Quit protecting him.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:21 PM on November 17, 2005

m5biemer: I believe that Aaron is sincere about wanting to repay you, because he's starting to realize that he's in a pretty tight spot and he wants to find a way out of it. I also believe that he is, once again, sadly mistaken about how to accomplish his goal. You should definitely get your money refunded through your credit card issuer. Whatever you do, don't accept any payment plans from Aaron short of "all of my money, right now." If I were you, I'd think long and hard about even accepting that from him, at this point, were he to offer it.

Cribcage: You're right. I haven't been in contact with Aaron at all. I was just trying to toot my own horn, long and loud, so I could feel like I was playing a valuable part in this thing. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm sorry. It's a good thing that Matt's on the case now. Maybe he should baninate me for being so fucking obnoxious.
posted by Buzz at 12:32 PM on November 17, 2005

Cavalier--Meg Whitman's e-mail is, supposedly, [e-mail]. Maybe a message to the top about their lax fraud practices would do some good?
posted by jrossi4r at 12:37 PM on November 17, 2005

If I were you, I'd think long and hard about even accepting that from him, at this point, were he to offer it.

Uh, why?
posted by Specklet at 12:39 PM on November 17, 2005

Buzz, the money that airnxtz stole from the most recent laptop auction is still warm from being in m5's wallet, and you want to give him the benefit of the doubt? The auction closed November 10! That was only a week ago. If you are so stupid as to think somehow airnxtz has had some amazing revelation while simulataneously blowing through m5's $2500 this week, you really should consider shutting the fuck up.
posted by MegoSteve at 12:41 PM on November 17, 2005

Fixed EE's link:

CellBlock C5 Representin yall!
posted by cavalier at 1:29 PM on November 17, 2005

Someone claiming to be Buzz has been emailing me for the past few days, explaining that he was trying to trick Aaron into revealing his full name and address. I replied that I thought he was wasting his time; and that, as I said here, I thought our best option was to provide an archive of Aaron's activity for m5biemer and future victims.

His last email said something about, "Thanks for playing along." I answered that I had no idea whether those emails were actually coming from Buzz or someone else, and I wasn't "playing along"; I was replying honestly, and I thought he should stop screwing around. Having read the mewling reply from Buzz above, I'm now confident that (1) he's the same person who sent me those emails, and (2) he never had any contact with Aaron.

If I'm wrong, Buzz, posting those emails here could help m5biemer, any other victims who might be reading, and Matt. Now that your charade is blown, I don't see any down side. If I'm right, however, I hope you'll take the attention whoring elsewhere. Either way: Any future emails will be deleted, unread. Public discussions should remain public. This isn't about you; it's about trying to help m5biemer.

(On preview, cavalier: "Who's BAD?!?")
posted by cribcage at 1:32 PM on November 17, 2005

Someone claiming to be Buzz has been emailing me for the past few days, explaining that he was... I replied that I thought...

You could really escalate the situation by posting those emails!

This isn't about you; it's about trying to help m5biemer.

You are absolutely right about that. For me it's also about trying to help a young guy who's gotten himself into a really big mess in front of what can be one of the most brutal and resourceful audiences on the internet. Of course you are under no obligation to play along with any of that.

One thing we're all pretty sure about is that some guy was unable to think through the potential consequences of some unquestionably stupid actions, so he came to us asking for help. It's a damned ironic story and a fascinating public spectacle, even with attention whores like you and me trying to steal the show, don't you think?
posted by Buzz at 3:17 PM on November 17, 2005

Buzz, he didn't come here asking for help to get himself out of the mess he created, he came here looking for help to keep from getting caught.
posted by fenriq at 5:05 PM on November 17, 2005

Exactly: This wasn't like a drug addict coming to us for help kicking a habit, it was like one coming here for tips on the best way to maximize mugging revenue to support the habit.
posted by Justinian at 5:21 PM on November 17, 2005

This qualifies, I think, as the best thread in quite a while.

Aaron, I hope you're still hungry after dinner, 'cause the master chefs at Metafilter are serving up some scrumptious deserts of the 'just' variety.
posted by item at 5:54 PM on November 17, 2005

By the way, if anyone here's interested in chatting online with a real live, dim-witted, and ultimately unsuccesful con artist, it seems airnxtz is logged into his AIM account on a fairly consistant basis.

Catch him soon, as I'm pretty certain there's not a lot of internet time in the pokey.
posted by item at 6:01 PM on November 17, 2005

Still online? As in still has a functioning computer? If I were him I would have placed my HD's near some VERY large magnets about 100 comments ago...

...not that it will do any good.
posted by starman at 7:52 PM on November 17, 2005

That is obvious, fenriq, and it's a large part of what makes the irony of the situation so compelling. I mean no offense by pointing that out to you, nor do I mean to insult anyone's intelligence by bringing up the old maxim about how the help we want isn't always the help we need.

There is more than enough information here for any reasonable person to conclude that Aaron will almost certainly have to answer to someone for the alleged fraud that has been committed in his name. If the Bakersfield police decide not to pursue the matter, then someone at eBay, UPS, the USPS, Paypal, a police department in the city of one of the victims, or someone else with jurisdiction and/or a legitimate grievance may be interested enough to take the ball and run with it.

In the event that none of those agencies step up, I remain hopeful that none of our fearless keyboard warriors will decide to put in a personal appearance in meatspace, with the intent to deliver justice on their own. I know that's not very likely to happen, but if it does come down to that, I sure hope that the brave mefi avengers decide that it's also a good idea to blog their exploits for everyone's continued entertainment!
posted by Buzz at 8:24 PM on November 17, 2005

Just thought I'd chime in a little late, seeing as this imbrogio is still ongoing.

Here's what Aaron looks like:



This was posted on the Bakotopia Web site, a meet and greet site for Bakersfield, CA.
posted by killdevil at 9:14 PM on November 17, 2005

No, WTF? cribcage, cavalier, fenriq and others:

This is medieval. As guilty as the guy appears, this is a school book example of a lynch mob, with address and pictures posted and the defending part being deprived the right to talk. MeFi with all its liberal voices should be able to stay above that. He has been reported to ebay and to the police. Now let them do their job.

The fact that you are directing this mob will surely be used against you in future political discussions. Buzz, kudos to you.
posted by springload at 3:17 AM on November 18, 2005

I've tried to keep the players straight in this drama. Buzz and springload, whatever your motivation to "help" airntx, I think you're misguided. I thought from the first set of posts that this was a scammer trying to get better at his business.

I fell victim to a scammer on a laptop "deal," too. eBay and PayPal were less than helpful; in fact, I would say that they did many things to enable the fraud. One email from a PayPal insider helped me--but was at first strongly denied by PayPal to have ever happened. I had saved EVERY correspondence, however.

My problem was that I live in the US, the scammer was in Burnaby, BC. The Internet Fraud link someone else posted above helps in the US, not across borders. But the Better Business Bureau in BC had an ex-RCMP there. He got on the case--not to help in my particular case, but to keep this from happening again.

The scammers take advantage of the distance and the overwhelming load of cases police have to contend with daily. This guy in Bakersfield--yeah, I know, innocent until proved, etc--deserves the piling on, which, in my opinion, serves as an innoculation for the rest of the populace. Scammers use unethical means to ply their trade. The various tactics here in some cases skirt the ethical (I would not have posted pictures--what if airntx has hijacked "Aaron"'s identity, too? Unlikely, but possible. So, the rest of the stuff, google-bombs etc, are fair game against this scum, er, scam artist.

The last message I got from "my" scammer, as the RCMP were closing in, was that he was going to refund my money (it was a mass mailing to all of his "customers" who had been affected by the "theft" that occurred at his warehouse); all I had to do was giv ehim my bank routing and account numbers and he would make a deposit.

Unfortunately for him, all of my banking was tied up in Nigerian trust fund transfers right then.
posted by beelzbubba at 5:41 AM on November 18, 2005

Yes, I really can't understand the holier than thou vibe from Buzz and springload. Will this help? "You guys are AWESOME! You are saints ! Ghandi is thumbs up in your direction!"

Now in the really real world, with the really real problems, we are uniquely in the capacity to actually effect change here as opposed to the multitude of political and theoretical discussions taken on MeFi. Someone has done wrong, and the institution he has wronged in (EBay) is seemingly unable or unwilling to step up in a timely fashion. The EBay buyers - no 'fense, m5 - have proven to be likeable targets for this guy. While a bit of the macho posturing with the pictures I admit is a bit... juvenile.. it's kind of a steam let-off after all this time discussing the issue.

Let's be frank. Intentional or not , the guy dialed his moral compass to sub-civilization. What his final objective is? Not my call, that's somebody higher up. But what we are already aware of he dialed his moral compass to sub-civ. It is our responsibility, as civilization, to correct him before he continues to do such activities that cause further harm and damage to society.

And how about this apple. The guy used our house to further plan and test his activities. I don't know how that sits on your lap but it pisses me the hell off. So yeah, there's some ire in the audience tonight, but I believe the vibe you're aiming for is a low dose of righteous fury.

We do not have the power to arrest him ourselves -- but we have the power to provide as much information as possible to make him as infamous as possible and to serve as a warning to other mesheguna daft enough to come to our house to set up a crime.
posted by cavalier at 6:07 AM on November 18, 2005 [1 favorite]

beelzbubba: The problems about law enforcement are real in many cases, but not in this one, as he is in the US. I'm not trying to help him, and I despice his actions as much as anyone. It's excellent that MetaFilter members dug this out, and he should be taken to justice and be forced to pay for what he's done. It's the primitive revenge that I object. The only reason I can see for posting pictures is to subject the guy to the threat of beside-the-law reprimands.

And cribcage: No, you are not helping m5biemer. Bring it all to the police. If nothing happens then, you may have a case, but you are also living in anarchy and need to do something about it.

I'm not saying there are any laws about the treatment of criminals on internet forums, but in circumstances where such laws exist and apply, they are considered fundamental parts of civility, not to be disputed on a case-to-case basis. I think we could try and keep up that kind of civility on Metafilter too.

This might all come out very self-righteous, and I'm sure that if I was screwed over, I would also want gruel revenge and punishment. That is in itself a reason I shouldn't be the one to inflict that punishment. Law and police are there to make sure that the punishment is the same regardless of how angry I am, if the criminal is an HA boss or if the victim manages to whip up a huge posse. And though I am grumpy about this principle when the ability for revenge is in my hands, I ultimately think it is a good thing.
posted by springload at 6:39 AM on November 18, 2005

As guilty as the guy appears, this is a school book example of a lynch mob.

Except for the crowd of people on horseback. And the rope. And the tree... Come on, admit it: Calling this thread a lynch mob is a wild exaggeration.
posted by Doohickie at 7:09 AM on November 18, 2005

I'm just very glad that the police have been notified about Aaron / AirN XTZ / Airn UPW / airnxtz / airnupw's fraud, and that Bakersfield is a small enough city that they're reasonably likely to care.

Even if m5biemer gets his money refunded by credit cards/paypal/ebay, he makes a good point that fraudsters really do hurt all of us.
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:29 AM on November 18, 2005

You say lynch mob. I say cavalry.
posted by jrossi4r at 7:36 AM on November 18, 2005

As guilty as the guy appears, this is a school book example of a lynch mob.

Let's stop pretending the guy isn't a criminal. Do I really need to remind you about the $500/mystery gift card?

I'm for due process as much as the next guy, but there's not a lot of mystery here. The only real question remaining is "when will the police arrest his sorry ass?", and I don't expect that to happen soon.

The wheels of justice grind slowly, but here's to hoping we can grease em up good.
posted by I Love Tacos at 7:49 AM on November 18, 2005

The lamest thing about the $500 give card is that he could have simply fulfilled his end of the 'bargain' by sending her a $5 GC.

It's still a complete hose-job, but he would have lived up to his end of the 'deal'.
posted by unixrat at 8:11 AM on November 18, 2005

Would you believe I got tagged for a feedback-survey for my EBay email?

I used to work in a company where if an awful survey came back management had to contact the customer.

I want you to know I'm pressing "Disagree Strongly" as hard as I possibly can.
posted by cavalier at 8:13 AM on November 18, 2005

Springload and Buzz, are you even reading the same site the rest of us are? Put aside the fact that some idiot has attempted to use (as previously put) our house to further his illegal activities, it's not like people are calling for a SA-style drive-by. In fact, I don't believe that anyone in all the discussion here has exclaimed a sentiment for anything stronger than "this guy should be punished by law".

"you are also living in anarchy and need to do something about it ... in circumstances where such laws exist and apply, they are considered fundamental parts of civility, not to be disputed on a case-to-case basis."

I mean, what? We've been through deal of whether Mefi members should be outed on the internet (answer: no, it's wanky) but it's an entirely different issue when it comes to hunting down publicly available information offered up by a guy who's used this site to steal over $2500.

This isn't like a news article where you can postulate that maybe the rapist just slipped and fell into her, we know that this guy is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt.

And yet we're still not doing anything "worse" than posting random profile pictures. Get over it.
posted by hugsnkisses at 8:24 AM on November 18, 2005

I'm amazed the profile pictures have survived. My comment was deleted just because I said I was a Republican. ;-)
posted by cribcage at 8:35 AM on November 18, 2005

I Love Tacos writes "I'm for due process as much as the next guy, but there's not a lot of mystery here."

I'd like to point out that this is, in fact, due process in action. I'm not sure what planet buzz and springload live on, but all that was done here was that people put together evidence of a crime and sent it to the police. No one in this thread has any real power to prosecute or to sentence, so presumptions of guilt are completely allowed. If this were a jury selection room, then maybe the hand-wringing would be justified, but as it stands, citizens have done what citizens should do when confronted by the overwhelming evidence of a crime having been/being committed.
posted by OmieWise at 10:31 AM on November 18, 2005

I Love Tacos and OmieWise:

If I were him, outed with pictures and googlebombed, I'd be scared for real about getting beaten up badly. Those things aren't putting together evidence and sending it to the police. That's putting together ID information so that anyone can think out some nasty punishment. Which I think is bad.

And also, can anyone possibly be this stupid? He's doing everything in the clumsiest way you can imagine. I'm still not absolutely sure he isn't a smart guy framing someone he doesn't like.
posted by springload at 11:20 AM on November 18, 2005

springload: And also, can anyone possibly be this stupid?

I'll save you some time. If ever you feel the need to ask this question again, regardless of the situation, the answer is yes.

Very late to the thread, but a hearty "great work" to the MeFi Justice Force and best wishes to the victims.
posted by Sinner at 11:43 AM on November 18, 2005

springload writes "I'd be scared for real about getting beaten up badly."

It's possible, I don't discount the possiblity, but no one here has advocated that, and there are as many chances for that to happen in life to innocent people as there are here in this thread. Don't forget that part of the issue here is that the possiblities for the justice system taking up this case are sadly attenuated. The thread is worth it to help other people avoid losing their money to the creepy ebay seller.
posted by OmieWise at 11:46 AM on November 18, 2005

Springload, I think he's going to be okay, really: Case study the first. You're vastly overestimating both the level of investment people have on this and the general preponderance for violence amongst mefites. [wildly disliked slightly trollish member] went to a meetup and didn't get anything more than a slight cold shouldering for goodness sake!

I'm not even going to get into the benefits of scammers fearing social justice if they rip people off online.
posted by hugsnkisses at 11:57 AM on November 18, 2005

springload: I'd be scared for real about getting beaten up badly.

Also, perhaps you haven't had a chance to look at the pictures of him posted in this thread and to peruse his myspace profile? Although he does have a legitimate interest in the quiet art of "reading," his other two listed hobbies are "kickboxing [and] working out."

I don't think he's got much reason to be scared of the unwashed but CRT/LCD-tanned MeFi masses.
posted by Sinner at 11:57 AM on November 18, 2005 [1 favorite]

springload, while I wouldn't really be overly upset if Aaron got a little physical retribution for his scams, that's certainly not what I've been after at all. I want him to be stopped and I want his scamming to be made public so that more people can avoid being scammed by people like him.

And yes, people can be this stupid but I do try to keep in mind that people are also extraordinarily devious creatures and it IS possible that the real scammer dude is just using Aaron and his accounts. But then it wouldn't be especially hard for Aaron to email Matt directly with his side.

Funny how that hasn't happened yet. I wonder why. Oh wait, no I don't.
posted by fenriq at 1:14 PM on November 18, 2005

This isn't some harmless pothead getting busted with an eighth. Real people have been hurt by this and Aaron was counting on his crimes slipping through the cracks. For all we know he would have taken tens of thousands of dollars over the next few decades, knowing that his 'penny-antie' antics wouln't be worth investigating.

Meanwhile real people are out $500-$2.5k per shot. That's a lot of money.
posted by delmoi at 2:39 PM on November 18, 2005

I love it! Crime fighters of the internet. You people could really do some damage if you wanted to and make a difference. Well done.
posted by codeofconduct at 12:55 PM on November 19, 2005

Sinner wrote: Also, perhaps you haven't had a chance to look at the pictures of him posted in this thread and to peruse his myspace profile? Although he does have a legitimate interest in the quiet art of "reading," his other two listed hobbies are "kickboxing [and] working out."

I don't think he's got much reason to be scared of the unwashed but CRT/LCD-tanned MeFi masses.

Heh. Not that I advocate the outright kicking of ass, your assumptions are rather stupid and offensive. I know that a lot of MeFites are quite active, myself included. You might be a pasty, skinny CRT-tanned dork, but I'm a rather large, hyperactive mammal who is quite comfortable with heavy exercise and being out and about in the sun.

If I were Aaron I'd be worried, pasty geeks or no. Besides, pasty geeks have potato cannons, fire in god-like quantities, and huge lasers.
posted by loquacious at 5:24 PM on November 19, 2005

it's threads like this that make me thing the internet might actually have a redeeming social value after all.
posted by tiamat at 5:49 PM on November 19, 2005

thing --> think

drat.
posted by tiamat at 5:51 PM on November 19, 2005

This thread has taken on a life of it's own. I hope we get that mofo! What a jerk.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:05 PM on November 19, 2005 [1 favorite]

loquacious: Not that I advocate the outright kicking of ass, your assumptions are rather stupid and offensive.

Well, yeah. First, you're right - those potato cannons can leave quite a nasty bruise. And the lasers? What's to say.

In all - well, more - seriousness, however, I'm sure you're right that there are some bad-ass motherfuckers around here, as evidenced by a recent martial arts-related thread. But I think it's reasonable to say that the Metafilter community for the most part is self-selected from a group that doesn't tend towards violence and isn't really Bakersfield-centric. Add to that the fact that virtually no one in the thread advocated any real-world punishment of the sticks-n-stones variety by the community and I think you can comfortably assume that the odds were stacked against an out-and-out brawl.

And if you're wondering, I'm also pretty active - and my tan, well, I'm afraid it's a combination of mostly natural sun, with decent helpings of fake-n-bake and shoe polish added in for effect. Sorry I can't give more detail, but the exact formula's a secret.
posted by Sinner at 6:31 PM on November 20, 2005

*twitching for a mathowie update*

*or is that twitching due to crt radiation tanning?*

posted by cavalier at 6:04 AM on November 21, 2005

Turned over to paypal this morning, we'll see what happens from here. I have another email address for airnxtz, but if I'm reading the ebay rules correctly, I'm not supposed to disclose it. If someone can clarify that, please let me know and I will be happy to post the address.

Thanks for all your input.
posted by m5biemer at 6:41 AM on November 21, 2005

Email Matt (mathowie) and ask him if he needs it. As mentioned he's contacted Bakersfield PD already. Anyways, I think eBay's Terms of Use "guidelines" are trumped by fraud and theft.

If eBay has a problem with that I certainly wouldn't use them ever again.
posted by loquacious at 6:56 AM on November 21, 2005

Just reviewed my paypal transaction history, apparently the airnxtz account holder is someone named armen asl. Hope that might help anyone trying to track him down. Thanks again for the outpouring of support.
posted by m5biemer at 7:24 AM on November 21, 2005

Latest email, which promises me a copy of the Bakersfield police report regarding the stolen laptop, comes from [e-mail]. I think that's the other ebay email account I referred to earlier today. I will check the home computer tonite and post again if there is another address available.
posted by m5biemer at 12:52 PM on November 21, 2005

Hmm. The Bakersfield police never got back to me after an initial call and explanation. They told me to bother them again if a couple days passed and they hadn't called back. I guess it sounds like they're doing something directly connected to ebay buyers, so that's good to hear.
posted by mathowie at 9:20 PM on November 21, 2005

m5biemer: Have you emailed eBay about the auction yet? I was wondering what their response was, because airnxtz hasn't been suspended yet.
posted by MegoSteve at 7:57 AM on November 22, 2005

MegoSteve--ebay will only let me file through paypal, as I used paypal for payment. I cannot find another way to notify them of the fraudulent seller.

If anyone has suggestions, please let me know.

My latest email message from our friend airnxtz states that he has contacted the Jax, FL police dept and charging me with harrassment with intent to do bodily harm. What a freaking' fruitcake this nutball is.
posted by m5biemer at 8:42 AM on November 22, 2005

Googling "ebay fraud report" gives you the, uh, Online Fraud Complaint Report form.

Looks like he's attempting damage control. Remember to save every copy of any correspondance you have with him.

Also remember (you too airnxtz) that Frivolous Lawsuits/Abuse Of Process/Vexatious Litigation are punishable under Federal Law. You could contact the police department to see if he's doing a Jack Thompson, who knows, he might have given them his full name.
posted by hugsnkisses at 9:41 AM on November 22, 2005

m5biemer, here's a good page on dealing with ebay ripoffs.

I assume you've already seen it, but here's ebay's 'official' page on dealing with these matters. Here's their 'Item Not Received or Significantly Not as Described Process' page.

Have you requested his contact information with this form? You may get his full name and phone number.

I wouldn't worry about the harrassment charge. Unless you sent emails threatening to maim him (and I hope you didn't), what proof does he have? This page? People were suggesting kicking the shit out of him before you were even a member of Metafilter. That's what we do around here: talk big.

Good luck. I've been following this story from the beginning - come to think of it we're still posting in Aaron's thread. Pretty funny, no? Keep updating us & we'll try to help as much as we can. I'm dealing with a dishonest ebayer right now (sent me an item that doesn't work & won't answer my emails), and though it's only to the tune of $50 I understand what you're going through. If you need any additional help, my email's in my profile. I'm hoping this guy gets what's coming to him as much as everyone else.
posted by item at 10:16 AM on November 22, 2005

I just tried to post a fraud complaint on ebay, but because 30 days has not yet transpired, the system would not allow me to complete the process. Any other suggestions?
posted by m5biemer at 12:44 PM on November 22, 2005

You could try emailing the president of eBay North America at [e-mail].
posted by MegoSteve at 3:57 PM on November 22, 2005

My latest email message from our friend airnxtz states that he has contacted the Jax, FL police dept and charging me with harrassment with intent to do bodily harm. What a freaking' fruitcake this nutball is.

Amen. I'm glad to see you can find a measure of humor in the antics of this coward.

I hope Matt follows up with another phone call to the Bakersfield PD; I'm sure I don't have to tell you that cops, like most people, tend to be lazy and don't often leap into action unless prodded. If Bakersfield is really a small town, the spin should be that since we're talking about a significant crime spree with fairly substantial proof, it ought to grease some officer's promotion to detective.

If not...well, we all know that although criminals don't always get caught for every crime they commit, they invariably repeat their mistakes and hang themselves eventually. I have no doubt this moron will find himself on the receiving end of poetic amusement soon enough; so in the meantime, m5biemer, update us on the important part: Have you had any difficulty straightening out your end with the credit card company?
posted by cribcage at 9:17 PM on November 22, 2005

Any other suggestions?

Yes: File a FTC Consumer Complaint here. Though he's an individual & not a company, the FTC may be able to help you.

Did Aaron tell you how he was planning on sending the package to you? If USPS, file a complaint here.

Did you request contact info on the bastard from ebay? If not, do it. His stuff may not be real or up to date, but it damn well could be. He's proved himself to be not the brightest of scammers, so you never know.

As I mentioned above, I want to see the asshole go down & I'm willing to help any way that I can.
posted by item at 10:02 PM on November 22, 2005

I received contact info yesterday from ebay, but under ebay rules am not supposed to disclose it on any open forum. I sort of feel between a rock and a hard place on this because I worked hard to establish my ebay feedback and would not want to be suspended, but at the same time feel that they are not going to be much help. Too many hoops to jump through gives too much protection to aaron or armen, whatever his hame is. I will tell you that his ebay account is not in his name, though, but in name of a female.

If anyone thinks I should flip the bird to ebay on this and disclose the phone number and contact person anyway, please let me know.
posted by m5biemer at 5:58 AM on November 23, 2005

If anyone thinks I should flip the bird to ebay on this and disclose the phone number and contact person anyway, please let me know.

Wouldn't the police be the best people to give that information to, m5biemer?
posted by sjvilla79 at 6:41 AM on November 23, 2005

If anyone thinks I should flip the bird to ebay on this and disclose the phone number and contact person anyway, please let me know.

I won't advise you one way or the other with regard to posting Airnxtz's contact information; that's something you have to decide for yourself. But as you've probably realized, you're not going to get any help from eBay -- so if it were me, yeah, I'd give them the finger.

At the top of this thread, when I gave Aaron the benefit of the doubt as a "victim," I told him he wouldn't get much help from anyone. Now that the tables are turned, I'm sorry to say that's still true. It's difficult to get lazy cops to involve themselves in online crime; it's outside their experience, and they simply have no conception of it. EBay won't act unless (1) they're scrutinized by media attention or (2) action is requested by a copyright or trademark holder.

When I first started using eBay, I visited their message boards occasionally. There used to be (and probably still are) bands of vigilantes patrolling for fraudulent auctions, and eBay was notorious for their refusal to suspend any seller based on any other user's suspicions. People would find incontrovertible proof (such as folks have uncovered with regard to Airnxtz), and eBay would ignore it.

This isn't eBay. This is MetaFilter. I would speculate that, if you were to post someone's contact information on this website, it's unlikely eBay would ever know about it; and if they did, I doubt they would take action against your eBay account without substantive proof that both accounts are owned by the same person.

Personally, I wouldn't worry. As I've said above, if it were me, I'd fill this thread with as much relevant and personal information about Airnxtz as I could find, to establish some record for posterity of the fact that he's a crook and a coward. But you've got to decide for yourself: What's your goal, here?
posted by cribcage at 7:57 AM on November 23, 2005

He lists his name as 'Aaron Madison' in his myspace profile, so maybe that's the name of his mother or a sister.

The phone number is for a Fast Cash store, so that's a fake.
posted by schustafa at 8:19 AM on November 23, 2005

I don't know how I feel about contact info being posted here, but oh well:

Whitepages.com has a listing for a 'M. Madison' in Bakersfield.

however, here we go:

Zabasearch has a listing for an Aaron M. Madison in Bakersfield born in 1970. Our Aaron's myspace profile gives his age as 24. Close enough.

You can't post direct links to Zabasearch's search results, so go to the site & search for 'Aaron Madison' in CA. I think there were two resultts. You'll get an address and a phone number in Bakersfield.

Zabasearch is notorious for listing old information (they've got my info from houses I lived in eight years ago) along with current info. If he hasn't moved, I'm thinking this is likely airnxtz in all his glory.

Use this info wisely. I wouldn't call & threaten or otherwise harass the scammer. It's completely within your rights, however, to call and ask for your money. Ebay even suggests doing so (look at suggestion number 5).

Again, good luck. I know you'll keep us updated.
posted by item at