Play it Safe or Live it Up?
November 7, 2008 9:36 AM Subscribe
Received an offer to enter into an open relationship but feel that it will only lead to heartache. It it better to play it safe or live a little?
I keep attracting men who come on strong but then almost instantly (first or second date) declare (without prompting by me) that they're only interested in open relationships and are not looking for something long term or committed. My strategy in the past has been to take this in stride, proceed with dating the person and see how things play out. The truth is that things in my experience have always played out rather poorly and I usually end the situation feeling unfulfilled.
I'm growing tired of the drama, and I'm debating what to do about my most recent suitor who (like all the others) just wants to keep things open and short-term. I would really hate to nip it in the bud so soon (I barely know the guy and so far we get along well), but an obnoxiously wise and boring part of me wants to save myself the trouble of muddling my way though what may well turn out to be another murky, confusing situation. Another more fun and irresponsible part of me thinks I should throw caution to the wind and just enjoy being young (I'm in my mid twenties) and see where the experience takes me and what it teaches me.
While I'm not specifically looking to settle down with anybody at this point in my life, I think what I really want is a situation with the potential to become committed and monogamous.
So to sum up:
1. Should I follow my own advice, and stop dating until someone with similar relationship goals shows up?
2. If so, can anyone give me some advice on how to stick to my guns about this even when attractive men are trying their damnedest to convince me to stop being such a cautious prude?
I keep attracting men who come on strong but then almost instantly (first or second date) declare (without prompting by me) that they're only interested in open relationships and are not looking for something long term or committed. My strategy in the past has been to take this in stride, proceed with dating the person and see how things play out. The truth is that things in my experience have always played out rather poorly and I usually end the situation feeling unfulfilled.
I'm growing tired of the drama, and I'm debating what to do about my most recent suitor who (like all the others) just wants to keep things open and short-term. I would really hate to nip it in the bud so soon (I barely know the guy and so far we get along well), but an obnoxiously wise and boring part of me wants to save myself the trouble of muddling my way though what may well turn out to be another murky, confusing situation. Another more fun and irresponsible part of me thinks I should throw caution to the wind and just enjoy being young (I'm in my mid twenties) and see where the experience takes me and what it teaches me.
While I'm not specifically looking to settle down with anybody at this point in my life, I think what I really want is a situation with the potential to become committed and monogamous.
So to sum up:
1. Should I follow my own advice, and stop dating until someone with similar relationship goals shows up?
2. If so, can anyone give me some advice on how to stick to my guns about this even when attractive men are trying their damnedest to convince me to stop being such a cautious prude?
If you've tried this kind of thing before, and have gotten hurt before, and don't see a strong difference between this time and the past hurty times, it seems reasonable to say "sorry, heartache is not my idea of fun."
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:42 AM on November 7, 2008
posted by Tomorrowful at 9:42 AM on November 7, 2008
Yes, you should follow your own advice. If what YOU want is a committed relationship (or one that could lead to commitment), and you are settling for an open relationship which is NOT what you want...you're settling. You will continue to feel unfulfilled until you insist on getting what you want.
You don't have to be awful about it. When your potential suitor says, "I want to stay in an open relationship, blah blah" you can respond with, "Thanks for letting me know early on. I'm actually looking for something that might lead to commitment, so it's been great and best of luck to you." They know that if they want to get with you, it needs to be on your (very reasonable) terms. They're being upfront with you about what they want, you should be upfront with what you want. And yeah, some people will walk, but you WILL find someone who wants what you do too.
posted by purplecurlygirl at 9:46 AM on November 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
You don't have to be awful about it. When your potential suitor says, "I want to stay in an open relationship, blah blah" you can respond with, "Thanks for letting me know early on. I'm actually looking for something that might lead to commitment, so it's been great and best of luck to you." They know that if they want to get with you, it needs to be on your (very reasonable) terms. They're being upfront with you about what they want, you should be upfront with what you want. And yeah, some people will walk, but you WILL find someone who wants what you do too.
posted by purplecurlygirl at 9:46 AM on November 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
"Open" relationships ALWAYS end in heartbreak.
Says you. Plenty of people sustain meaningful open relationships over the long term, but RingerChopChop doesn't sound like a good candidate. Listen to your "boring" self, AKA the part of you that stands up for what YOU want, rather than the crumbs other people offer you.
posted by zoomorphic at 9:47 AM on November 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
Says you. Plenty of people sustain meaningful open relationships over the long term, but RingerChopChop doesn't sound like a good candidate. Listen to your "boring" self, AKA the part of you that stands up for what YOU want, rather than the crumbs other people offer you.
posted by zoomorphic at 9:47 AM on November 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
1. Absolutely.
2. They don't seem so attractive to me - they don't respect or like you enough to even give a monogamous relationship a shot?
Having someone be attracted to your looks is flattering and exciting, but having someone be attracted to your personality enough to just want to be with you is much, much more. Not to mention all the confusion and hurt you've gone through before, and know you'll experience again.
posted by emyd at 9:47 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
2. They don't seem so attractive to me - they don't respect or like you enough to even give a monogamous relationship a shot?
Having someone be attracted to your looks is flattering and exciting, but having someone be attracted to your personality enough to just want to be with you is much, much more. Not to mention all the confusion and hurt you've gone through before, and know you'll experience again.
posted by emyd at 9:47 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you're looking for committed and monogamous, wait until you find someone that's also looking for that kind of relationship. Go after what YOU want. And don't get caught up in the drama of other people who aren't willing to give you that. Good for you for identifying open relationships as sucking a tremendous amount of emotional energy out of you. Now stay strong until someone better for you comes along.
posted by smallstatic at 9:49 AM on November 7, 2008
posted by smallstatic at 9:49 AM on November 7, 2008
Are you an attractive person who tends to have low standards? That's how it reads to me, that you have no trouble finding potential mates but they are always on the run. Well if so, congratulations on having higher standards this time around! Don't let your attraction to any particular person compromise this situation (compromise is for committed relationships ;), go ahead and have the strength to kick them to the curb. It's not your job to provide them with their experiences.
And for sure, have fund, but have the kind of fun you want to have, not just the fun that drops into your lap. Apologies if I'm way off base here, your question just speaks to a certain part of my experiences.
posted by rhizome at 9:51 AM on November 7, 2008
And for sure, have fund, but have the kind of fun you want to have, not just the fun that drops into your lap. Apologies if I'm way off base here, your question just speaks to a certain part of my experiences.
posted by rhizome at 9:51 AM on November 7, 2008
#2 gave me the impression that you somehow feel guilty and self-conscious for not wanting to partake in the oh-so-enlightened lifestyle of swingers. Whatever. Your heart is your heart, and it doesn't have to answer to anyone else's standards of fulfillment. You're certainly not a prude for demanding a monogamous relationship, and #2 sounds like people are making you feel like a backwards wallflower who's tragically inculcated with the myth of monogamy. No one gets to make you feel shitty about your needs, so tell them that. There's a degree of smug superiority from both sides of the monogamous-polygamous spectrum (see Grither's comment) about the right way to be in love, and how That Other Way is "unnatural." It just ain't true, despite what Proposition 8 and those manipulative dudes are telling you.
posted by zoomorphic at 9:55 AM on November 7, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by zoomorphic at 9:55 AM on November 7, 2008 [6 favorites]
Don't be flattered that a man wants to sleep with you once or twice. That's basically only an affirmation that 1) you have at least one functional orifice, and 2) you aren't dead. It isn't an affirmation of your gender, because plenty of guys ain't that picky, and it certainly isn't an affirmation of your attractiveness. Saying "I want an open relationship" is essentially saying "I want to have sex with you but I don't want to have to put any effort into getting you to put out."
If you want the potential for a committed monogamous relationship, don't do things which preclude such potential. Agreeing to have sex with guys who have made it clear that they aren't committed to you, or even with those who haven't made it clear that they are committed, is, for the purposes you've outlined, completely counterproductive.
posted by valkyryn at 9:56 AM on November 7, 2008 [11 favorites]
If you want the potential for a committed monogamous relationship, don't do things which preclude such potential. Agreeing to have sex with guys who have made it clear that they aren't committed to you, or even with those who haven't made it clear that they are committed, is, for the purposes you've outlined, completely counterproductive.
posted by valkyryn at 9:56 AM on November 7, 2008 [11 favorites]
1. Following your own advice is almost always a good idea. They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to come out differently. You know this beginning leads to a depressing ending. Keep yourself open for someone who begins differently (maybe by taking some time to get to know you as a person and see where a relationship between just the two of you might go).
2. Get your own head straight - the problem isn't that they are teliing you stop being such a prude - you are telling yourself. There is a different between being a prude and not respecting your own needs. It's not being a prude to refuse a relationship that has no real hope of turning out well - it's being smart.
Buy some sex toys. Don't go to bed with someone unless they have potential. If you do start with them, and then find out they don't, break up cleanly and quickly so you can be available to someone who meets your standards.
posted by metahawk at 9:56 AM on November 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
2. Get your own head straight - the problem isn't that they are teliing you stop being such a prude - you are telling yourself. There is a different between being a prude and not respecting your own needs. It's not being a prude to refuse a relationship that has no real hope of turning out well - it's being smart.
Buy some sex toys. Don't go to bed with someone unless they have potential. If you do start with them, and then find out they don't, break up cleanly and quickly so you can be available to someone who meets your standards.
posted by metahawk at 9:56 AM on November 7, 2008 [2 favorites]
If you know you don't want an open relationship, don't enter into one. As for sticking to your guns, just tell them how you feel. If they harrass you for being a "cautious prude", cut contact.
posted by owtytrof at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2008
posted by owtytrof at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2008
Evolution has built humans so they end up in pairs*. Toss in both the social and biological expectations for women to get married, have children, etc and I think only a small majority can really end up having these kinds of relationships with no regrets. You need to ask yourself if youre this kind of person.
Also, its a potential turn-off to future monogamous mates if they hear you are the type to have open relationships with multiple men.
*its also built men to want to deposit as much sperm as possible into as many women as possible. Hence all these requests from attractive men.
posted by damn dirty ape at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, its a potential turn-off to future monogamous mates if they hear you are the type to have open relationships with multiple men.
*its also built men to want to deposit as much sperm as possible into as many women as possible. Hence all these requests from attractive men.
posted by damn dirty ape at 9:58 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Also, its a potential turn-off to future monogamous mates if they hear you are the type to have open relationships with sleep with multiple men.
posted by zoomorphic at 10:04 AM on November 7, 2008
posted by zoomorphic at 10:04 AM on November 7, 2008
Wow, what a low-ball offer these guys are giving you. It's hardly flattering. Frankly, I'd be indignant. But I'm also not one to play the field. You have to know yourself, and if you don't enjoy open relationships then you just plain don't. You can't change your hopes. Why try?
And don't suspend your hopes just to enjoy the moment. This is your sex life, not a communal fridge. It's not required that you develop a spirit of cooperation and compromise so that everyone can be happy.
You simply can't really enjoy an open relationship if it is less than what you wanted to begin with. It's selling your ideals and your own self short. You're not really living it up so much as hiding from your fear of being alone.
I know you are likely thinking that you haven't got anything better going on so you might as well have some kind of relationship rather than none at all. The problem is that you are making yourself unavailable for that monogamous/commitment-minded guy around the corner. When a guy like that comes along, he doesn't want to find you casually sleeping with someone already. You just blew his hopes, right?
On top of that, I believe there's is a cosmic law that dictates that you'll never get what you want until you learn to say No to what you don't want. It basically boils down to you declaring your self-worth on your own terms.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 10:08 AM on November 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
And don't suspend your hopes just to enjoy the moment. This is your sex life, not a communal fridge. It's not required that you develop a spirit of cooperation and compromise so that everyone can be happy.
You simply can't really enjoy an open relationship if it is less than what you wanted to begin with. It's selling your ideals and your own self short. You're not really living it up so much as hiding from your fear of being alone.
I know you are likely thinking that you haven't got anything better going on so you might as well have some kind of relationship rather than none at all. The problem is that you are making yourself unavailable for that monogamous/commitment-minded guy around the corner. When a guy like that comes along, he doesn't want to find you casually sleeping with someone already. You just blew his hopes, right?
On top of that, I believe there's is a cosmic law that dictates that you'll never get what you want until you learn to say No to what you don't want. It basically boils down to you declaring your self-worth on your own terms.
posted by i_love_squirrels at 10:08 AM on November 7, 2008 [5 favorites]
"Open" relationships ALWAYS end in heartbreak.
Only when one partner is not really suited to be in one. It sounds like you should be looking for a monogamous relationship.
Having someone be attracted to your looks is flattering and exciting, but having someone be attracted to your personality enough to just want to be with you is much, much more.
This is the stereotype- that being open means it's only about sex.
In reality, you can have both types of attractions with several people at the same time.
posted by Zambrano at 10:10 AM on November 7, 2008
Only when one partner is not really suited to be in one. It sounds like you should be looking for a monogamous relationship.
Having someone be attracted to your looks is flattering and exciting, but having someone be attracted to your personality enough to just want to be with you is much, much more.
This is the stereotype- that being open means it's only about sex.
In reality, you can have both types of attractions with several people at the same time.
posted by Zambrano at 10:10 AM on November 7, 2008
"Open" relationships ALWAYS end in heartbreak.
And marriage ALWAYS ends in divorce. Well, maybe just most of the time.
Obviously no one kind of love can claim superiority, and often the only way to find out what we're suited for is to experiment.
However, RingerChopChop, you are not really being invited to participate in an "open relationship." An open relationship occurs when two individuals who are committed to each other work out a treaty of sexual or romantic openness that includes others. You, on the other hand, are being asked to date nonexclusively. You're going to save others a lot of confusion (and spare yourself defensive reactions from those who actually enjoy open relationships) if you approach the problem this way.
I think that talking about this too much in the beginning is actually shooting you down. When I start dating someone, I take into consideration that they may be dating other people too. What is dating but the process of trying each other on? If after a while the connection seems really strong, then maybe it's time to start talking exclusivity. Whether or not sex comes into play before that point is up to you (and him). If you're ready to be his girlfriend and he's not ready to be your boyfriend, your options are to move on before you get too involved to accept polite discouragement, or to ride it out and see if he changes his mind. But again, if he's still seeing other people at this early point, it's really none of your business -- and in no way does that constitute an "open relationship."
Of course, if he's having sex with other partners then you need to make sure your health is a priority.
Anyhow, my point is that it's a little unreasonable to expect someone's undivided attention from the get-go. Hey, maybe you'll luck into it (it happens!), or maybe you won't mind sticking to your guns and dating fewer people -- the ones who don't mind knowing from the outset that they are on the fast-track to commitment -- even if it means being a little lonelier in the short term. If you already have your mind made up when you meet someone, you'll be better off. It's easier to periodically make exceptions to your own tailor-made rules than it is to come up with brand new rules after every let-down.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 10:31 AM on November 7, 2008
And marriage ALWAYS ends in divorce. Well, maybe just most of the time.
Obviously no one kind of love can claim superiority, and often the only way to find out what we're suited for is to experiment.
However, RingerChopChop, you are not really being invited to participate in an "open relationship." An open relationship occurs when two individuals who are committed to each other work out a treaty of sexual or romantic openness that includes others. You, on the other hand, are being asked to date nonexclusively. You're going to save others a lot of confusion (and spare yourself defensive reactions from those who actually enjoy open relationships) if you approach the problem this way.
I think that talking about this too much in the beginning is actually shooting you down. When I start dating someone, I take into consideration that they may be dating other people too. What is dating but the process of trying each other on? If after a while the connection seems really strong, then maybe it's time to start talking exclusivity. Whether or not sex comes into play before that point is up to you (and him). If you're ready to be his girlfriend and he's not ready to be your boyfriend, your options are to move on before you get too involved to accept polite discouragement, or to ride it out and see if he changes his mind. But again, if he's still seeing other people at this early point, it's really none of your business -- and in no way does that constitute an "open relationship."
Of course, if he's having sex with other partners then you need to make sure your health is a priority.
Anyhow, my point is that it's a little unreasonable to expect someone's undivided attention from the get-go. Hey, maybe you'll luck into it (it happens!), or maybe you won't mind sticking to your guns and dating fewer people -- the ones who don't mind knowing from the outset that they are on the fast-track to commitment -- even if it means being a little lonelier in the short term. If you already have your mind made up when you meet someone, you'll be better off. It's easier to periodically make exceptions to your own tailor-made rules than it is to come up with brand new rules after every let-down.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 10:31 AM on November 7, 2008
Redefine 'monogamous' as fun and exciting in your own dictionary.
Sounds as if you are letting other people tell you what is an adventure in life. Decide your own adventures and go from there.
posted by Vaike at 10:32 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sounds as if you are letting other people tell you what is an adventure in life. Decide your own adventures and go from there.
posted by Vaike at 10:32 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'd say follow your own advice.
I mean, maybe you'll regret it but at least then you'll know for next time. If this situation arises again (as you seem to indicate it frequently does) you'll have a better idea of the consequences of either course of action and will be able to make a more informed decision.
posted by losvedir at 10:39 AM on November 7, 2008
I mean, maybe you'll regret it but at least then you'll know for next time. If this situation arises again (as you seem to indicate it frequently does) you'll have a better idea of the consequences of either course of action and will be able to make a more informed decision.
posted by losvedir at 10:39 AM on November 7, 2008
I think the issue here is what you define as 'living'. Think of it this way: You have the option to take the time and energy to find a fabulous homemade cake, filled with organic goodness, made with all the flavors you love. You may have to go into unfamiliar neighborhoods to find it, and people may say you're crazy to go through all the trouble, but it's what you want, and your adventure it to find it.
This guy is offering you a sad little processed twinkie, that you know has a high probabilty of giving you a stomache ache, and leave you feeling unsatisfied and empty in like, two hours. But's it there. Twinkies are abundant. They are convenient. They come in familiar wrapping. And you're hungry.
But for you, right now, that twinkie offer is not 'living'. And two hours later when you are rolling on the floor looking for tums, that's not living either. Because living is about learning what you want and seeking out those things, and what you don't, and learning how to avoid them. And all you're probably going to learn here is that you shouldn't eat twinkies. There may be twinkie women out there. You might have been a true twinkie woman once. But you're not one anymore. And you know that now. You know what you want. You seem to be having trouble navigating how to avoid what you DON'T want.
Every moment you spend with twinkie man, is a moment that you are not spending your goodness finding the person who wants to be with you the way that you want. So be flattered, be coy, be happy that you're attractive to people you find attractive. In short, be flattered that twinkie men want you. But you want cake, and you need to put that awareness and desire out there. Put it out there to twinkie men. They've been honest with what they want. Be honest about what you want. Tell everyone what you are seeking. Because the type of guys -long term relationship guys - are out there, but you can't be distracted of trying to manage the draining drama of a twinkie relationship, or you might miss them.
You might think - what's the big deal - I'll just do this twinkie thing on the side, and drop him when something better comes along. It's all good. But often, people in no-strings relationships who want to be in strings relationships end up second guessing themselves, wondering why they aren't 'good enough' to change the other person's mind, are spending time with no relationship person rather than going to a gathering where they can meet other people, and getting strung along. Which means when the type of person they want does come along, they aren't in a good head space, because maintaining internal equilibrium in a relationship that you chose, but don't really want, takes it toll. And that comes across. Oozes out, actually. And you might miss connecting with the person you really want to connect with.
Spend you time finding that cake, Ringerchopchop. You already know what twinkie tastes like.
posted by anitanita at 10:41 AM on November 7, 2008 [27 favorites]
This guy is offering you a sad little processed twinkie, that you know has a high probabilty of giving you a stomache ache, and leave you feeling unsatisfied and empty in like, two hours. But's it there. Twinkies are abundant. They are convenient. They come in familiar wrapping. And you're hungry.
But for you, right now, that twinkie offer is not 'living'. And two hours later when you are rolling on the floor looking for tums, that's not living either. Because living is about learning what you want and seeking out those things, and what you don't, and learning how to avoid them. And all you're probably going to learn here is that you shouldn't eat twinkies. There may be twinkie women out there. You might have been a true twinkie woman once. But you're not one anymore. And you know that now. You know what you want. You seem to be having trouble navigating how to avoid what you DON'T want.
Every moment you spend with twinkie man, is a moment that you are not spending your goodness finding the person who wants to be with you the way that you want. So be flattered, be coy, be happy that you're attractive to people you find attractive. In short, be flattered that twinkie men want you. But you want cake, and you need to put that awareness and desire out there. Put it out there to twinkie men. They've been honest with what they want. Be honest about what you want. Tell everyone what you are seeking. Because the type of guys -long term relationship guys - are out there, but you can't be distracted of trying to manage the draining drama of a twinkie relationship, or you might miss them.
You might think - what's the big deal - I'll just do this twinkie thing on the side, and drop him when something better comes along. It's all good. But often, people in no-strings relationships who want to be in strings relationships end up second guessing themselves, wondering why they aren't 'good enough' to change the other person's mind, are spending time with no relationship person rather than going to a gathering where they can meet other people, and getting strung along. Which means when the type of person they want does come along, they aren't in a good head space, because maintaining internal equilibrium in a relationship that you chose, but don't really want, takes it toll. And that comes across. Oozes out, actually. And you might miss connecting with the person you really want to connect with.
Spend you time finding that cake, Ringerchopchop. You already know what twinkie tastes like.
posted by anitanita at 10:41 AM on November 7, 2008 [27 favorites]
You're not a prude; you already tried it! And you know it's not what you want.
You have just as much of a right to say "I'm only interested in dating exclusively" as those guys do to say "I'm only interested in open relationships." When meeting someone new, keep in mind that you have as much power to set the terms as they do, and that if you two can't agree on terms, it's probably not going to work out.
I went through quite a few failed short relationships and dates that ended in drama, and although I quickly learned the early warning signs, it took me a much longer time to learn to actually heed those signs and listen to that "get out" voice in my head. It sounds like you're making the same mistake I did, of counting the red flags and cheerfully tossing them aside.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:46 AM on November 7, 2008
You have just as much of a right to say "I'm only interested in dating exclusively" as those guys do to say "I'm only interested in open relationships." When meeting someone new, keep in mind that you have as much power to set the terms as they do, and that if you two can't agree on terms, it's probably not going to work out.
I went through quite a few failed short relationships and dates that ended in drama, and although I quickly learned the early warning signs, it took me a much longer time to learn to actually heed those signs and listen to that "get out" voice in my head. It sounds like you're making the same mistake I did, of counting the red flags and cheerfully tossing them aside.
posted by Metroid Baby at 10:46 AM on November 7, 2008
I wish I could favorite valkyryn's answer 100 times. It's exactly on the money.
As far as sticking to your guns, it's not really that difficult. Calling someone a "cautious prude" is assholish and manipulative, and why would you be attracted to a manipulative asshole? (Maybe that's a whole 'nother AskMe?) There's no need to be defensive about what you want, especially when what you want (long-term, monogamous relationship) is the overwhelming norm in our society. Believe me, you can be all kinds of adventurous and freaky inside of a monogamous relationship.
Guy: "Oh, come on, don't be such a cautious prude."
You: "Oh, come on, don't be such a manipulative asshole."
[Guy walks away.]
[End scene]
posted by desjardins at 10:50 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
As far as sticking to your guns, it's not really that difficult. Calling someone a "cautious prude" is assholish and manipulative, and why would you be attracted to a manipulative asshole? (Maybe that's a whole 'nother AskMe?) There's no need to be defensive about what you want, especially when what you want (long-term, monogamous relationship) is the overwhelming norm in our society. Believe me, you can be all kinds of adventurous and freaky inside of a monogamous relationship.
Guy: "Oh, come on, don't be such a cautious prude."
You: "Oh, come on, don't be such a manipulative asshole."
[Guy walks away.]
[End scene]
posted by desjardins at 10:50 AM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Polamory and unconventional takes on relationships can be wonderful. But only if everyone involved is happy - indeed enthusiastic - about the arrangements and agreements involved. The very fact that you're posting here signals that you have doubts, therefore hold back.
posted by skylar at 11:02 AM on November 7, 2008
posted by skylar at 11:02 AM on November 7, 2008
Yes, it sounds like you should wait until you meet someone who shares your goals. Trying to "upgrade" from an open relationship to a committed one when the guy has been clear about his goals is unlikely to work. I disagree that you are being offered crumbs, necessarily. People are allowed to want what they want and have done the grown-up thing of stating it plainly here. That you want something different does not make these guys bad people. Unless they are trying to twist your arm and call you a prude (you're not). I trust this is just how you feel as you're considering turning them down. (Hey! I'm liberated! I'm young! I'm attractive! Why not?) The "why not" is that it's not working for you.
One idea -- take a 6-month hiatus from attractive men who come on all strong up front. Maybe try and meet someone more slowly through a class or a group of friends and let something build, rather than let yourself be worn down by some quick-talking cutie who's peddling wares you're not interested in.
posted by *s at 11:07 AM on November 7, 2008
One idea -- take a 6-month hiatus from attractive men who come on all strong up front. Maybe try and meet someone more slowly through a class or a group of friends and let something build, rather than let yourself be worn down by some quick-talking cutie who's peddling wares you're not interested in.
posted by *s at 11:07 AM on November 7, 2008
Do they want to have an open relationship, i.e. commit to a particular arrangement in which you two have defined rules and permissions? Or are they just not serious about monogamy right now, i.e. they want to play the field? It sounds like there's vocabulary from the former being used in a request for the latter.
posted by desuetude at 12:20 PM on November 7, 2008
posted by desuetude at 12:20 PM on November 7, 2008
There are guys out there who are ready to at least be open to the possibility of a long term relationship, and you deserve one of those. I'd wait for that and not waste time on the guy who has already eliminated that possibility from his dance card. But I'd thank your date for being honest and let him know you really appreciate that.
It is NOT prudery to reserve your emotional resources for guys who might want something more than the most casual of relationships. Relationships take time and work and they have an effect on your psyche. Why not invest yourself in lots of short term relationships? Well, you could also have banana splits for dinner every night because they are delicious and temporarily satisfying, but in the long term they will not provide you with the type of satisfaction you are looking for. Lots of people want real, long-term emotional connection and support from their relationships -- that's a reasonable expectation, and if this is something that you ultimately want, it's better that you put some effort into finding that than than in short term satisfaction that will never take you down that road. Good luck to you!
posted by onlyconnect at 12:22 PM on November 7, 2008
It is NOT prudery to reserve your emotional resources for guys who might want something more than the most casual of relationships. Relationships take time and work and they have an effect on your psyche. Why not invest yourself in lots of short term relationships? Well, you could also have banana splits for dinner every night because they are delicious and temporarily satisfying, but in the long term they will not provide you with the type of satisfaction you are looking for. Lots of people want real, long-term emotional connection and support from their relationships -- that's a reasonable expectation, and if this is something that you ultimately want, it's better that you put some effort into finding that than than in short term satisfaction that will never take you down that road. Good luck to you!
posted by onlyconnect at 12:22 PM on November 7, 2008
this is the kind of situation where I wish I could ask you what these guys' EXACT words are. Because I don't know if what they're describing sounds like "an open relationship", but rather instead it sounds like "I don't wanna promise I'm gonna be exclusive right away, is that okay?"
And the two are different. I've been in both situations, and in the former, there are very, very definite rules -- if you're one of the two people in the relationship you have even MORE commitment to deal with, negotiating what your rules are, what exactly constitutes the committment part of your own relationship, and talking about a LOT to make sure no one gets hurt. If you're the third party (this who I was in this scenario), you also have a lot of talking involved, and you personally have to really understand what you want and don't want, and be able to speak up about it -- and be ready to drop out if it looks like things are getting rocky for the primary couple (I'd suggest that even if it's not my fault, because who knows what extra stress you could be putting on anything, you know?)
But it sounds like these guys are giving more of a hedge-betting, I'm-a-little-leery-of-committment-so-let-me-just-head-that-off-at-the-pass kind of thing. They're not so much asking you for an open relationship as much as they're asking you not to have an exclusive one. I have the hunch that it's more a matter of they've somehow convinced themselves that you're going to be WAY over in the other extreme of wanting to pick out your kids names' already, and are trying to avoid that. And there could be a lot of reasons why -- anything from some kind of signal you may be unconsciously projecting (but only you can determine the truth of that statement) to the fact that they were really screwed over by other girlfriends, to them just being really warped.
But none of this answers the question about what you should do about it. And the only answer to that is -- well, do what you think is best for you. If you sense that what's going on with the guy is that they're actually interested in pursuing a more CLASSIC "open relationship", as in, they have one primary partner and they want you as a secondary fling, or if they know themselves enough to know that's what they want and they want to know if you'd be amenable to being the primary partner, then you can respond to that with what you truthfully feel. But if you get the sense that they're just being freaked-out because they think you're going to want to get married tomorrow, you can either look at them funny and ask them why they want to define things so soon, or figure out whether the guy just may have too much baggage for you to handle right now, or what have you.
it is possible to live it up WHILE you play it safe, but I think it all comes down to being honest with yourself about what you want, being accurate in figuring out what THEY want and what makes them tick, and about sticking to your own principles. good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:38 PM on November 7, 2008
And the two are different. I've been in both situations, and in the former, there are very, very definite rules -- if you're one of the two people in the relationship you have even MORE commitment to deal with, negotiating what your rules are, what exactly constitutes the committment part of your own relationship, and talking about a LOT to make sure no one gets hurt. If you're the third party (this who I was in this scenario), you also have a lot of talking involved, and you personally have to really understand what you want and don't want, and be able to speak up about it -- and be ready to drop out if it looks like things are getting rocky for the primary couple (I'd suggest that even if it's not my fault, because who knows what extra stress you could be putting on anything, you know?)
But it sounds like these guys are giving more of a hedge-betting, I'm-a-little-leery-of-committment-so-let-me-just-head-that-off-at-the-pass kind of thing. They're not so much asking you for an open relationship as much as they're asking you not to have an exclusive one. I have the hunch that it's more a matter of they've somehow convinced themselves that you're going to be WAY over in the other extreme of wanting to pick out your kids names' already, and are trying to avoid that. And there could be a lot of reasons why -- anything from some kind of signal you may be unconsciously projecting (but only you can determine the truth of that statement) to the fact that they were really screwed over by other girlfriends, to them just being really warped.
But none of this answers the question about what you should do about it. And the only answer to that is -- well, do what you think is best for you. If you sense that what's going on with the guy is that they're actually interested in pursuing a more CLASSIC "open relationship", as in, they have one primary partner and they want you as a secondary fling, or if they know themselves enough to know that's what they want and they want to know if you'd be amenable to being the primary partner, then you can respond to that with what you truthfully feel. But if you get the sense that they're just being freaked-out because they think you're going to want to get married tomorrow, you can either look at them funny and ask them why they want to define things so soon, or figure out whether the guy just may have too much baggage for you to handle right now, or what have you.
it is possible to live it up WHILE you play it safe, but I think it all comes down to being honest with yourself about what you want, being accurate in figuring out what THEY want and what makes them tick, and about sticking to your own principles. good luck.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:38 PM on November 7, 2008
a couple of thoughts:
as some people have already typed, the issue is not 'open relationship' or polyamory, it's sleeping around and nonexclusivity.
i want to be super-gentle here and i hope you will take it in that spirit: sometimes it is easy to be happy that you are connecting with someone and perhaps there are signals you are giving off unconsciously that makes these men think that you are already listing items in a wedding registry. i am a woman, so this is not a "all women want a wedding ring" kind of sentiment, because this has happened to me, too - i connect with someone i like a lot and enjoy and want to spend time with, and suddenly I am getting the "of course i'm not asking you for a commitment" speech (meaning, "you are frightening me off").
this isn't even necessarily a question of something you're *doing*. you might just be showing normal healthy affection or enthusiasm and they might be jerks.
can i suggest something else? years ago, i had a male friend whose #1 life ambition was to get married and start a family. as a result, he would go on a date with ANYONE. if you walked up to him and said, "i know this girl.." he would immediately request a phone number and an introduction. his logic was that he wasn't going to meet anyone by sitting at home and watching tv.
his #1 tactic was that he always, ALWAYS started with coffee. he never made plans for a movie or a ballgame or dinner until he had met the person for coffee and had the chance to spend some time with them. it wasn't even a date. he always phrased it as "coffee" and he always had an out (so that they would feel comfortable in having their own out). perhaps you should not date but rather start with coffee and have a conversation? then you can figure out who is a nice guy. it is totally okay to say, "While I'm not specifically looking to settle down with anybody at this point in my life, I think what I really want is a situation with the potential to become committed and monogamous."
you already know what you want. you just need to shop differently.
posted by micawber at 12:54 PM on November 7, 2008
as some people have already typed, the issue is not 'open relationship' or polyamory, it's sleeping around and nonexclusivity.
i want to be super-gentle here and i hope you will take it in that spirit: sometimes it is easy to be happy that you are connecting with someone and perhaps there are signals you are giving off unconsciously that makes these men think that you are already listing items in a wedding registry. i am a woman, so this is not a "all women want a wedding ring" kind of sentiment, because this has happened to me, too - i connect with someone i like a lot and enjoy and want to spend time with, and suddenly I am getting the "of course i'm not asking you for a commitment" speech (meaning, "you are frightening me off").
this isn't even necessarily a question of something you're *doing*. you might just be showing normal healthy affection or enthusiasm and they might be jerks.
can i suggest something else? years ago, i had a male friend whose #1 life ambition was to get married and start a family. as a result, he would go on a date with ANYONE. if you walked up to him and said, "i know this girl.." he would immediately request a phone number and an introduction. his logic was that he wasn't going to meet anyone by sitting at home and watching tv.
his #1 tactic was that he always, ALWAYS started with coffee. he never made plans for a movie or a ballgame or dinner until he had met the person for coffee and had the chance to spend some time with them. it wasn't even a date. he always phrased it as "coffee" and he always had an out (so that they would feel comfortable in having their own out). perhaps you should not date but rather start with coffee and have a conversation? then you can figure out who is a nice guy. it is totally okay to say, "While I'm not specifically looking to settle down with anybody at this point in my life, I think what I really want is a situation with the potential to become committed and monogamous."
you already know what you want. you just need to shop differently.
posted by micawber at 12:54 PM on November 7, 2008
FWIW, I wouldn't necessarily assume that you are giving off some sort of "I want to have babies now" vibe. There have been at least 5 AskMe's by men over the last year asking how and when to tell women that they are not ready for long-term relationship and is it okay to do that? Men are doing this alot these days without it necessarily having anything to do with the women they're dating. Lots of times they've just gotten out of a long term relationship and they want to play for a while. So I wouldn't be eager to take this personally.
posted by onlyconnect at 1:17 PM on November 7, 2008
posted by onlyconnect at 1:17 PM on November 7, 2008
Politely say thanks, but you want a long-term relationship, and you don't think you are suited to dating them. Then leave.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:24 PM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:24 PM on November 7, 2008 [1 favorite]
Be glad that you are finding out something that will filter out your unwanted suitors so quickly. If you are reluctant to drop them and go on, you must ask yourself why you are clinging to what you say you do not want. As to what to say, ¨Thank you for a lovely evening, I don´t think we are a good match, but good luck in your search¨ should do nicely.
Attempting to convince the man of anything is unnecessary. Sticking to your guns is an unsuitable response, you need to look elsewhere. It´s like trying to order a steak at a vegetarian restaurant, no matter how much you say that´s what you want you aren´t going to get it there. Find someone who is offering what you want -- although if you are so taken by these handsome men, perhaps a smidgen of what´s on offer currently may tide you over to make the journey to your destination.
it wasn't even a date. he always phrased it as "coffee"
Um, isn´t that still a date micawber? Plans in advance to meet at a certain time and place and possible romantic intent make it a date I would think. It´s not a dinner date, it´s a coffee date.
posted by yohko at 2:55 PM on November 7, 2008
Attempting to convince the man of anything is unnecessary. Sticking to your guns is an unsuitable response, you need to look elsewhere. It´s like trying to order a steak at a vegetarian restaurant, no matter how much you say that´s what you want you aren´t going to get it there. Find someone who is offering what you want -- although if you are so taken by these handsome men, perhaps a smidgen of what´s on offer currently may tide you over to make the journey to your destination.
it wasn't even a date. he always phrased it as "coffee"
Um, isn´t that still a date micawber? Plans in advance to meet at a certain time and place and possible romantic intent make it a date I would think. It´s not a dinner date, it´s a coffee date.
posted by yohko at 2:55 PM on November 7, 2008
As said, throw the 'open relationship' term out the window. These dudes sound more like they're just layin the f*ck buddy option out on the table and that's all they're offering. Yeah, f*ck buddies can be fun, but you want 'the one.' You don't have to tell the guys that though. Not like that anyway. When they start handing out those crumbs, tell them you're looking for something more long term. I don't think that's too overbearing. Hang in there. Maybe start hanging out in some different places, asking friends if they know anyone. You're definitely going through a bad run and need a change of pace. Good luck and don't compromise you. You're a WOMAN. You can always find a f*ck buddy!
Sorry to be crass, but getcha sum when you need sum, but don't confuse that with 'open relationship' or ANY 'relationship' for that matter.
posted by CwgrlUp at 3:10 PM on November 7, 2008
Sorry to be crass, but getcha sum when you need sum, but don't confuse that with 'open relationship' or ANY 'relationship' for that matter.
posted by CwgrlUp at 3:10 PM on November 7, 2008
Why would you do it when it's always worked out badly for you? Some people like open relationships, some don't. You clearly don't. Don't let yourself be socially pressured into these things.
posted by Nattie at 6:35 PM on November 7, 2008
posted by Nattie at 6:35 PM on November 7, 2008
There's nothing wrong with not wanting something. Your life is not a lunch counter where the option you want is sold out so you have to get the sandwich filling you don't really like instead. You can go elsewhere for lunch, and you can go elsewhere for sex/romance/whatever you're searching for.
I was in a crap quasi-relationship a couple of years back where basically he wanted me to be his fuck-buddy but kept phrasing this as 'I like you, I'm just not in a good space right now' and 'I don't want to come over, you can come to mine though' and 'I'm not used to relationships' and of course, I thought that if I did the right things, if I made him comfortable enough, if I was understanding and bought all the drinks this would change, because I rather liked him and liked him enough to let myself get confused. (Eventually we became 'in a relationship' while he was knocking off girls on the side while telling me he wanted to work it out because I was a convenient place to stay, but that's a long and bitter story and I can't be bothered to recount it.) At the time, a friend of mine said 'You're too used to crumbs when what you need is a nice meal'. Just...some of the comments here brought this to mind.
posted by mippy at 2:04 AM on November 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I was in a crap quasi-relationship a couple of years back where basically he wanted me to be his fuck-buddy but kept phrasing this as 'I like you, I'm just not in a good space right now' and 'I don't want to come over, you can come to mine though' and 'I'm not used to relationships' and of course, I thought that if I did the right things, if I made him comfortable enough, if I was understanding and bought all the drinks this would change, because I rather liked him and liked him enough to let myself get confused. (Eventually we became 'in a relationship' while he was knocking off girls on the side while telling me he wanted to work it out because I was a convenient place to stay, but that's a long and bitter story and I can't be bothered to recount it.) At the time, a friend of mine said 'You're too used to crumbs when what you need is a nice meal'. Just...some of the comments here brought this to mind.
posted by mippy at 2:04 AM on November 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I believe there's is a cosmic law that dictates that you'll never get what you want until you learn to say No to what you don't want. It basically boils down to you declaring your self-worth on your own terms.
I believe something like this, too.
Not too long ago, I stopped dating someone with whom there was strong mutual attraction and respect, because he wanted a polyamorous relationship and I did not. It was difficult for me to walk away, but I knew it was the right thing to do. Ultimately, I may not get what I want - life doesn't offer such guarantees, after all - but I'm still glad I took a stand on my own behalf. If people think of me as a "cautious prude" as a result, well, that's their problem, not mine. I'm not out to malign people who prefer non-monogamy; some people can probably manage it. To each their own and all that. However, I've learned through experience that it's not for me.
Here's a cautionary tale. Take from it what you will; maybe it will help you stick to your guns. (If you want to read something really in-depth on the subject, check out Survivors of an Open Marriage: A Cautionary Tale. The author came to conclusions similar to mine).
I spent many years involved in non-monogamous relationships, in various configurations. I chose these arrangements consciously at the time, with the best of intentions. Every one, virtually without exception, ended in untold worlds of heartache and pain for someone who was involved (and often for everyone who was involved). No one set out to hurt each other, to intensify the melodrama, or to expose the fault lines in their relationships. But that was the ultimate result, regardless of any good intentions.
Valuable lessons were learned, and in a sense I "lived it up" for awhile, but it also cost me dearly, and in the end I was always left unfulfilled. Whatever benefits may have been gained are outweighed, in my mind at least, by the damage that was done - however inadvertently - to various relationships. I've found open relationships to be one thing in theory, but a different animal altogether in practice.
If I could go back in time and offer my younger self advice before embarking upon the path of non-monogamy, I would implore her to give careful thought to how her behavior might affect the relationships of others. I would tell her that whether or not it is acknowledged at the time, sex (even casual sex) can affect people profoundly. I would advise her not to be too cavalier about sex and human bonding, because in spite of our conscious intentions, sometimes we human beings surprise ourselves with unexpected visceral emotions when we thought we were just having friends-with-benefits relationship or a harmless fling. I would try to get her to understand that trifling with sex and love can have lasting emotional and spiritual consequences, and that she can ignore this truth at her own peril. I would tell her that what sounds like harmless fun now may very well catch up to her later in ways that aren't much fun. And I would remind her to trust her instincts, even in the face of social pressure.
...an obnoxiously wise and boring part of me wants to save myself the trouble of muddling my way though what may well turn out to be another murky, confusing situation.
If you tune in to that part of you more closely, you might find that it's not obnoxious, nor boring. Just wise.
posted by velvet winter at 2:54 AM on November 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
I believe something like this, too.
Not too long ago, I stopped dating someone with whom there was strong mutual attraction and respect, because he wanted a polyamorous relationship and I did not. It was difficult for me to walk away, but I knew it was the right thing to do. Ultimately, I may not get what I want - life doesn't offer such guarantees, after all - but I'm still glad I took a stand on my own behalf. If people think of me as a "cautious prude" as a result, well, that's their problem, not mine. I'm not out to malign people who prefer non-monogamy; some people can probably manage it. To each their own and all that. However, I've learned through experience that it's not for me.
Here's a cautionary tale. Take from it what you will; maybe it will help you stick to your guns. (If you want to read something really in-depth on the subject, check out Survivors of an Open Marriage: A Cautionary Tale. The author came to conclusions similar to mine).
I spent many years involved in non-monogamous relationships, in various configurations. I chose these arrangements consciously at the time, with the best of intentions. Every one, virtually without exception, ended in untold worlds of heartache and pain for someone who was involved (and often for everyone who was involved). No one set out to hurt each other, to intensify the melodrama, or to expose the fault lines in their relationships. But that was the ultimate result, regardless of any good intentions.
Valuable lessons were learned, and in a sense I "lived it up" for awhile, but it also cost me dearly, and in the end I was always left unfulfilled. Whatever benefits may have been gained are outweighed, in my mind at least, by the damage that was done - however inadvertently - to various relationships. I've found open relationships to be one thing in theory, but a different animal altogether in practice.
If I could go back in time and offer my younger self advice before embarking upon the path of non-monogamy, I would implore her to give careful thought to how her behavior might affect the relationships of others. I would tell her that whether or not it is acknowledged at the time, sex (even casual sex) can affect people profoundly. I would advise her not to be too cavalier about sex and human bonding, because in spite of our conscious intentions, sometimes we human beings surprise ourselves with unexpected visceral emotions when we thought we were just having friends-with-benefits relationship or a harmless fling. I would try to get her to understand that trifling with sex and love can have lasting emotional and spiritual consequences, and that she can ignore this truth at her own peril. I would tell her that what sounds like harmless fun now may very well catch up to her later in ways that aren't much fun. And I would remind her to trust her instincts, even in the face of social pressure.
...an obnoxiously wise and boring part of me wants to save myself the trouble of muddling my way though what may well turn out to be another murky, confusing situation.
If you tune in to that part of you more closely, you might find that it's not obnoxious, nor boring. Just wise.
posted by velvet winter at 2:54 AM on November 8, 2008 [3 favorites]
Should I follow my own advice, and stop dating until someone with similar relationship goals shows up?
It depends what you mean by "dating." If you mean "going out for dinner and a movie," no, keep it up; just let it be known that you don't sleep with people who sleep with other people.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:49 AM on November 8, 2008
It depends what you mean by "dating." If you mean "going out for dinner and a movie," no, keep it up; just let it be known that you don't sleep with people who sleep with other people.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:49 AM on November 8, 2008
You seem like you're having trouble putting confidence behind your true desires. I'm not going to presume what you really want.
But this sketch gives me confidence about my desires in relationships. It's a little cheesy, and it comes from Sex and the City, and I forget who says it, but one of the girls says, "Relationships should make you look like this" (and she shows a wide, glowing smile), "not like this" (and she then shows a frown).
Also, keep in mind that your ideas about relationships and your feelings about relationships both matter. I can imagine, perhaps, that you might actually believe that the concept of monogamy is hard to support, but from your post, it seems like deep down, your bones don't really believe that. Your heart and mind should both be satisfied with what you're doing.
posted by philosophistry at 11:19 PM on November 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
But this sketch gives me confidence about my desires in relationships. It's a little cheesy, and it comes from Sex and the City, and I forget who says it, but one of the girls says, "Relationships should make you look like this" (and she shows a wide, glowing smile), "not like this" (and she then shows a frown).
Also, keep in mind that your ideas about relationships and your feelings about relationships both matter. I can imagine, perhaps, that you might actually believe that the concept of monogamy is hard to support, but from your post, it seems like deep down, your bones don't really believe that. Your heart and mind should both be satisfied with what you're doing.
posted by philosophistry at 11:19 PM on November 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Grither at 9:42 AM on November 7, 2008 [4 favorites]