Kicked out. Please help me get back in
October 14, 2008 6:31 PM Subscribe
I recently was asked to turn in my keys to a university research lab, and have a week to convince him why I should be allowed to return. Please help me.
I have worked with Dr. X for more than a year. The environment is relaxed and encouraging. We didn't have to wear goggles when handling non-toxic items such as DI water, and used the lab computers to play music or watch youtube in-between measurements.
This changed over the past few months. Because of pressure from the administration, Dr. X set firmer rules regarding our behavior in the lab, emphasizing safety precautions even though he disagreed with some of them. A few other instances where problems in communication arose regarding accidents also prompted the crackdown.
I also have felt some tension between me and him. Even though I work hard in the lab and get my trials done efficiently, I tend to take advantage of the perks the lab offered more than my labmates did. For example, in the lab's off-hours, I use it as a space to study and print out notes. I think it's accurate to say I took the rules more casually than others may have. But I truly enjoy working in the lab, because of my friends, because of its cordial atmosphere, and because I get to learn more about a research subject that others might not notice. I have made my share of minor mistakes, which got me good share of friendly reprimands.
Today I was looking for a labmate of mine for lunch. We have a restricted access room that is also unlocked. I thought he was in there and knocked. Not hearing anyone around, I opened the door and saw no one there. moments later, Dr. X came in and demanded who had tampered with the measurements in the room. I admitted to it. He called me to his office and demanded the keys back. Feeling extremely guilty and remorseful, I had hoped I could find sympathy from him, even though I may have ruined some measurements on some expensive equipment. So I had to leave.
I don't how I can convince Dr. X to allow me back. The potential for making mistakes again is great, but I have learned from them and am paying immensely for it (it seems). It seems he has the upper hand, because I need the lab more than it needs me. I am stuck coming up with something sincere and persuasive. I care about the lab, and I care about my research. I can understand why I shouldn't stay, but I feel I can contribute to the lab that would not compromise its safety and equipment again. Thank you.
I have worked with Dr. X for more than a year. The environment is relaxed and encouraging. We didn't have to wear goggles when handling non-toxic items such as DI water, and used the lab computers to play music or watch youtube in-between measurements.
This changed over the past few months. Because of pressure from the administration, Dr. X set firmer rules regarding our behavior in the lab, emphasizing safety precautions even though he disagreed with some of them. A few other instances where problems in communication arose regarding accidents also prompted the crackdown.
I also have felt some tension between me and him. Even though I work hard in the lab and get my trials done efficiently, I tend to take advantage of the perks the lab offered more than my labmates did. For example, in the lab's off-hours, I use it as a space to study and print out notes. I think it's accurate to say I took the rules more casually than others may have. But I truly enjoy working in the lab, because of my friends, because of its cordial atmosphere, and because I get to learn more about a research subject that others might not notice. I have made my share of minor mistakes, which got me good share of friendly reprimands.
Today I was looking for a labmate of mine for lunch. We have a restricted access room that is also unlocked. I thought he was in there and knocked. Not hearing anyone around, I opened the door and saw no one there. moments later, Dr. X came in and demanded who had tampered with the measurements in the room. I admitted to it. He called me to his office and demanded the keys back. Feeling extremely guilty and remorseful, I had hoped I could find sympathy from him, even though I may have ruined some measurements on some expensive equipment. So I had to leave.
I don't how I can convince Dr. X to allow me back. The potential for making mistakes again is great, but I have learned from them and am paying immensely for it (it seems). It seems he has the upper hand, because I need the lab more than it needs me. I am stuck coming up with something sincere and persuasive. I care about the lab, and I care about my research. I can understand why I shouldn't stay, but I feel I can contribute to the lab that would not compromise its safety and equipment again. Thank you.
You spent a lot of time telling the back story and then completely neglected to write anything about the thing that presumptively got you fired. How that portion of the story went down changes, quite literally, everything.
posted by toomuchpete at 6:42 PM on October 14, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by toomuchpete at 6:42 PM on October 14, 2008 [7 favorites]
You went in there to look for your friend and changed the lab measurements? Care to elaborate?
posted by Brennus at 6:44 PM on October 14, 2008 [11 favorites]
posted by Brennus at 6:44 PM on October 14, 2008 [11 favorites]
I care about the lab, and I care about my research. I can understand why I shouldn't stay, but I feel I can contribute to the lab that would not compromise its safety and equipment again.
It sounds like you know that you got yourself into this jam. I think that telling Dr. X what you wrote above is your best, last hope. Throw yourself on their mercy and beg (and really mean it) - it's the only chance you have, really.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 6:45 PM on October 14, 2008
It sounds like you know that you got yourself into this jam. I think that telling Dr. X what you wrote above is your best, last hope. Throw yourself on their mercy and beg (and really mean it) - it's the only chance you have, really.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 6:45 PM on October 14, 2008
You have given no reasons which show your value to the project; instead, you seem to be a liability. Without these reasons, you have no ground to stand upon. If you can provide some, maybe we can help more.
But to me, right now, it doesn't sound like you are responsible enough to work in this environment.
posted by Riverine at 6:49 PM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
But to me, right now, it doesn't sound like you are responsible enough to work in this environment.
posted by Riverine at 6:49 PM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I didn't understand this either (along the lines of toomuchpete). You admitted you tampered with the measurements? You hadn't mentioned tampering with the measurements before that.
Was the mere fact that you opened the door "tampering with the measurements"? If so, were we supposed to understand that?
And more importantly, did you understand that when you did it?
And what on earth does opening a door that you know will ruin an experiment if you open it have to do with everything else that you described previously - "watching youtube" and such?
I suspect maybe I'm just not getting what the actual cause was, or how that cause was related to the backstory that you gave in a seemingly explanatory manner. You might want to mail an admin with clarification to be posted here.
posted by Flunkie at 6:49 PM on October 14, 2008
Was the mere fact that you opened the door "tampering with the measurements"? If so, were we supposed to understand that?
And more importantly, did you understand that when you did it?
And what on earth does opening a door that you know will ruin an experiment if you open it have to do with everything else that you described previously - "watching youtube" and such?
I suspect maybe I'm just not getting what the actual cause was, or how that cause was related to the backstory that you gave in a seemingly explanatory manner. You might want to mail an admin with clarification to be posted here.
posted by Flunkie at 6:49 PM on October 14, 2008
Not hearing anyone around, I opened the door and saw no one there. moments later, Dr. X came in and demanded who had tampered with the measurements in the room. I admitted to it
I am wondering about this. Were the measurements so sensitive that simply walking into the room screwed them up? If so, maybe lab policy needs to change to have a sign on the door indicating there is an experiment in progress and do not enter at all. If this is NOT the case, and your mere walking into the room did nothing to the experiment, why the hell did you admit to tampering? You might start your explanation with Dr. X. there if your entering the room had no ill effect, or that signage needs to be considered, but do so in a positive manner as an improvement suggestion, not as a way of deflecting blame.
And finally, option 3, if you did walk into the room and tamper with an experiment you saw running there, deliberately, well in that case you should be tossed out.
posted by barc0001 at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
I am wondering about this. Were the measurements so sensitive that simply walking into the room screwed them up? If so, maybe lab policy needs to change to have a sign on the door indicating there is an experiment in progress and do not enter at all. If this is NOT the case, and your mere walking into the room did nothing to the experiment, why the hell did you admit to tampering? You might start your explanation with Dr. X. there if your entering the room had no ill effect, or that signage needs to be considered, but do so in a positive manner as an improvement suggestion, not as a way of deflecting blame.
And finally, option 3, if you did walk into the room and tamper with an experiment you saw running there, deliberately, well in that case you should be tossed out.
posted by barc0001 at 6:50 PM on October 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
I hear lots and lots of reasons why your relationship was strained:
- Using the lab as a study area whereas others don't (are you going against the norms of the group?)
- several "minor" mistakes and "friendly" reprimands
- disdain for safety precautions; characterizing safety enforcement as a "crackdown" following accidents.. um yikes? what kind of accidents?
Your fun and casual may be his reckless and irresponsible. I mean, who can really say from this distance, but I only got your side of the story and I'm still sympathetic to your prof.
OK, so how do you go back. Recognize that this is no longer about what you want and what you need. If things have deteriorated to the point where your prof kicked you out, then either he doesn't value your needs very much, or you've squandered whatever good will he may have had towards you. Instead you need to make a proposition that is in both of your interests... but especially in his.
From his point of view, are you a productive member of the lab, or are you a liability who ruins experiments and causes trouble? Are you going to work hard and contribute? Do you have a plan for graduating and putting out publications? (I assume you're a student). Are you going to be a role model for new students that come in after you? Are you going to be a positive influence on the productivity and the happiness of those around you? In short, would he be proud to have you as his student?
I think you need to do some soul searching and figure out just what it is you're doing here. Then you schedule a meeting and make the "this was a wake-up call, give me a month's probation and I'll show you that I've turned it all around and if you're not satisfied I'll leave the program" argument. He still might say no. But understand that it is now about him and what his group needs, not about what you need.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:52 PM on October 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
- Using the lab as a study area whereas others don't (are you going against the norms of the group?)
- several "minor" mistakes and "friendly" reprimands
- disdain for safety precautions; characterizing safety enforcement as a "crackdown" following accidents.. um yikes? what kind of accidents?
Your fun and casual may be his reckless and irresponsible. I mean, who can really say from this distance, but I only got your side of the story and I'm still sympathetic to your prof.
OK, so how do you go back. Recognize that this is no longer about what you want and what you need. If things have deteriorated to the point where your prof kicked you out, then either he doesn't value your needs very much, or you've squandered whatever good will he may have had towards you. Instead you need to make a proposition that is in both of your interests... but especially in his.
From his point of view, are you a productive member of the lab, or are you a liability who ruins experiments and causes trouble? Are you going to work hard and contribute? Do you have a plan for graduating and putting out publications? (I assume you're a student). Are you going to be a role model for new students that come in after you? Are you going to be a positive influence on the productivity and the happiness of those around you? In short, would he be proud to have you as his student?
I think you need to do some soul searching and figure out just what it is you're doing here. Then you schedule a meeting and make the "this was a wake-up call, give me a month's probation and I'll show you that I've turned it all around and if you're not satisfied I'll leave the program" argument. He still might say no. But understand that it is now about him and what his group needs, not about what you need.
posted by PercussivePaul at 6:52 PM on October 14, 2008 [3 favorites]
I agree...if all it takes to tamper with vital measurements is walking into an unlocked room looking for someone, then the lab needs better procedures. If you actively did something in that room to mess things up, then that's a very different matter.
posted by Jimbob at 6:53 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Jimbob at 6:53 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'm with the others; I don't understand exactly what got you fired. Did you do something besides open the door? You go directly from "I opened the door and saw no one there" to "I admitted tampering with the measurements".
What?
Was an experiment running that was so sensitive that opening a door would change the temperature or pressure or something? Did you go in and mess with the equipment? What happened?
posted by Justinian at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2008
What?
Was an experiment running that was so sensitive that opening a door would change the temperature or pressure or something? Did you go in and mess with the equipment? What happened?
posted by Justinian at 6:55 PM on October 14, 2008
Hmm, the only thing I could add is to be ready to elaborate how you will not compromise the safety and equipment again. Also, being able to - just in case it comes up - explain how you understand why he might not want you there (That your behavior implied that you did not respect his rules or this authority for example), might give him the sense that you understand. It might not hurt to also be able to explain to him why you tampered with his measurements.
Since you aren't helping him deal with the pressure he is under, you might have become a liability, and he might have just used you to set an example for other people in the lab. But, I think it might also help if you wrote a brief email/letter to him saying what you said above, and asking him to give you another chance might work (if it's clear that you are clear about exactly what you have done, and can clearly explain why it will not happen again).
In that context - it's not clear if you accidently messed up his stuff (a mistake, you call it) or purposefully touched his stuff (tampering, you called it). If it's the first, your chances are better than if it's the second.
Good luck!
posted by anitanita at 7:03 PM on October 14, 2008
Since you aren't helping him deal with the pressure he is under, you might have become a liability, and he might have just used you to set an example for other people in the lab. But, I think it might also help if you wrote a brief email/letter to him saying what you said above, and asking him to give you another chance might work (if it's clear that you are clear about exactly what you have done, and can clearly explain why it will not happen again).
In that context - it's not clear if you accidently messed up his stuff (a mistake, you call it) or purposefully touched his stuff (tampering, you called it). If it's the first, your chances are better than if it's the second.
Good luck!
posted by anitanita at 7:03 PM on October 14, 2008
Or perhaps on the other hand - and I DON'T mean this snarky, but seriously - you should find another lab where you can continue your studies.
posted by anitanita at 7:05 PM on October 14, 2008
posted by anitanita at 7:05 PM on October 14, 2008
It seems that most of the friction you've described arose from you treating the lab more as the center of your social life social life than as a workplace. Playing music, sharing videos, and studying (or just hanging out?) can get under people's skin if they feel that you are monopolizing the space. If it was my lab, I'd get pissed off at somebody who always seemed to be under foot. If you disregarded the dangers inherent in intruding into a restricted area while looking for somebody for lunch, then it sounds like it was literally your lack of boundaries that got you into trouble.
Acknowledging this and promising to limit your impact on the place in future might sway Dr. X if he/she values your previous work.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:06 PM on October 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
Acknowledging this and promising to limit your impact on the place in future might sway Dr. X if he/she values your previous work.
posted by bonobothegreat at 7:06 PM on October 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
What does the personal use of the lab and changes in policy have to do with the experiment part? Changes in policy happen, often due to laws even tenured faculty cannot defy them. The boss is protecting his job/lab/workers/department and school by enforcing them.
If you were involved with a project and you changed it without permission you might very well be terminated on the spot. If it's not your place to change an experiment you don't change it. Real scientific discoveries and thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in grant money depend on dedicated researchers completing projects as planned (as written in the grant).
If you are an undergrad I would totally expect you to be gone. No questions asked. Nothing, just fired. A research assistant who had varying degrees of authority over a project? You might argue the fact that you thought it was your place to modify the project. A grad student, more freedom in changing a project.
If this was so delicate an experiment that entering the room ruined it, and you didn't realize that. You could only possibly salvage your position by pleading that your contributions to the lab and future (as in grad school and publications) will outweigh this one mistake. But you'd better have a lot of past performance to convince an angry scientist that it will reflect future achievements.
posted by Science! at 7:11 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you were involved with a project and you changed it without permission you might very well be terminated on the spot. If it's not your place to change an experiment you don't change it. Real scientific discoveries and thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in grant money depend on dedicated researchers completing projects as planned (as written in the grant).
If you are an undergrad I would totally expect you to be gone. No questions asked. Nothing, just fired. A research assistant who had varying degrees of authority over a project? You might argue the fact that you thought it was your place to modify the project. A grad student, more freedom in changing a project.
If this was so delicate an experiment that entering the room ruined it, and you didn't realize that. You could only possibly salvage your position by pleading that your contributions to the lab and future (as in grad school and publications) will outweigh this one mistake. But you'd better have a lot of past performance to convince an angry scientist that it will reflect future achievements.
posted by Science! at 7:11 PM on October 14, 2008 [1 favorite]
If it helps, most of the people that I know who have quit lab science were pretty pleased about that later.
I'm reading the story as "restricted area" meaning "I wasn't supposed to be in there and have always known that".
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:12 PM on October 14, 2008
I'm reading the story as "restricted area" meaning "I wasn't supposed to be in there and have always known that".
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:12 PM on October 14, 2008
I can understand how opening a door to a restricted room can ruin an experiment. Especially for optical experiments where any outside light can mess with results.
And I am sure any light, temperature, or shock sensitive chemical or biological experiments could also be damaged easily by just poking your head into a room. (Of course, a warning light or even just a note on the door can avoid such things).
Since your professor demanded the keys back it sounds like this might be the last straw in a long line of screw ups on your part.
You don't mention what exactly was your purpose in the lab. I wouldn't expect a professor to be so quick to reprimand a post-doc or graduate student since without their contributions to the lab, the professor essentially can't get their work done.
That makes me think you're an undergraduate, in which case having lab access in the first place was a very special privilege. Since undergrads are a dime a dozen, you'll have to beg and plead for another chance. Write a very apologetic e-mail outlining your understanding of the mistake(s) you made, play up how much the research (or whatever it is you do) means to you and essentially hope for some sort of mercy. You have nothing to lose at this point.
posted by toftflin at 8:23 PM on October 14, 2008
And I am sure any light, temperature, or shock sensitive chemical or biological experiments could also be damaged easily by just poking your head into a room. (Of course, a warning light or even just a note on the door can avoid such things).
Since your professor demanded the keys back it sounds like this might be the last straw in a long line of screw ups on your part.
You don't mention what exactly was your purpose in the lab. I wouldn't expect a professor to be so quick to reprimand a post-doc or graduate student since without their contributions to the lab, the professor essentially can't get their work done.
That makes me think you're an undergraduate, in which case having lab access in the first place was a very special privilege. Since undergrads are a dime a dozen, you'll have to beg and plead for another chance. Write a very apologetic e-mail outlining your understanding of the mistake(s) you made, play up how much the research (or whatever it is you do) means to you and essentially hope for some sort of mercy. You have nothing to lose at this point.
posted by toftflin at 8:23 PM on October 14, 2008
Response by poster: Yeah, you are going to have to grovel. Admit your mistakes, explain while you understand clearly what you did wrong and why you were fired, you truly value the job and would promise to give 110%.
End the letter thanking him for the time you were able to work with him, saying you appreciated his help and experience.
Also, if you go back, you realize you are going to have to treat the lab environment much, much differently? No more socializing. No more studying after-hours. No more unauthorized printing. The "110%" thing is not bullshitting, you are actually going to have to give 110%.
This is also going to have to be the case for any other lab you work for. Depending on how much professors talk to one another about their students, you're now going to have to prove yourself to anybody you work for.
posted by Anonymous at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2008
End the letter thanking him for the time you were able to work with him, saying you appreciated his help and experience.
Also, if you go back, you realize you are going to have to treat the lab environment much, much differently? No more socializing. No more studying after-hours. No more unauthorized printing. The "110%" thing is not bullshitting, you are actually going to have to give 110%.
This is also going to have to be the case for any other lab you work for. Depending on how much professors talk to one another about their students, you're now going to have to prove yourself to anybody you work for.
posted by Anonymous at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2008
Seems to me that you understood that this area was restricted, and you opted to open the door to said restricted area to find your pal, who wasn't in there, since it was a restricted area where people shouldn't be hanging out.
I expect your chances of getting back into Dr. X's good graces are pretty small, considering that you're willing to go places you know you shouldn't in the lab to pursue your social life, and that your chances are largely dependent on how much data you ruined and how long those experiments had been running.
My office uses logged-out workstations for computationally-intensive, deadline-specific tasks overnight. People have had some pretty explosive arguments and the like over folks coming in in the morning and just reflexively throwing those jobs off their machines when said job had been running for 10 hours and had, say, five minutes to go before it completed. You don't tamper with other people's work unless you know, from their own lips, that you won't get in trouble for doing it.
I think you're going to have to chalk this one up as a life lesson, honestly.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
I expect your chances of getting back into Dr. X's good graces are pretty small, considering that you're willing to go places you know you shouldn't in the lab to pursue your social life, and that your chances are largely dependent on how much data you ruined and how long those experiments had been running.
My office uses logged-out workstations for computationally-intensive, deadline-specific tasks overnight. People have had some pretty explosive arguments and the like over folks coming in in the morning and just reflexively throwing those jobs off their machines when said job had been running for 10 hours and had, say, five minutes to go before it completed. You don't tamper with other people's work unless you know, from their own lips, that you won't get in trouble for doing it.
I think you're going to have to chalk this one up as a life lesson, honestly.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 8:53 PM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
Your story makes no sense. Therefore, either you do not understand what you did wrong or you lack the ability to explain it in a sensible way.
You should go work in a lab where you are brought along in terms of your understanding.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:15 PM on October 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
You should go work in a lab where you are brought along in terms of your understanding.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:15 PM on October 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
Um. Wow. Caveat: I work for a major university research department, albeit in an IT support roll. The school I work for had some graduate and staff research employees get sick due to lax controls, and it caused the same kind of crackdown that you're talking about -- auditors, administrative pressure, some fairly extreme controls in areas that don't make any sense unless you're walked through the entire audit process, things like that. One of the places where I'm frequently consulted is the document management system that maintains differences between versions of the lab procedures, forms, tests, and related paperwork, which means I have direct knowledge of the different levels of procedures that need to be followed in various levels and types of laboratory.
Frankly, I don't think you deserve to be back into Dr. X's lab. You have pretty much come straight out and said, "I'm not a researcher, I'm just a student." Someone who cares about the research and learning that they do takes pains to preserve the controls in their experiments. That includes separating home/student life from the laboratory, making sure that procedures are always done the same way (including safety equipment), and access to restricted areas is controlled.
If you do get back into the lab again, it should be at another school, and you should treat it like an adult this next time instead of a child. Harsh lesson? Well, yes, you said you're there to learn. Consider this to have been a rather cheap lesson compared to what would have happened later in any academic career you may pursue.
Now run along. Child.
posted by SpecialK at 9:39 PM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
Frankly, I don't think you deserve to be back into Dr. X's lab. You have pretty much come straight out and said, "I'm not a researcher, I'm just a student." Someone who cares about the research and learning that they do takes pains to preserve the controls in their experiments. That includes separating home/student life from the laboratory, making sure that procedures are always done the same way (including safety equipment), and access to restricted areas is controlled.
If you do get back into the lab again, it should be at another school, and you should treat it like an adult this next time instead of a child. Harsh lesson? Well, yes, you said you're there to learn. Consider this to have been a rather cheap lesson compared to what would have happened later in any academic career you may pursue.
Now run along. Child.
posted by SpecialK at 9:39 PM on October 14, 2008 [2 favorites]
i agree with toftflin, this sounds like an undergrad to me. if this isn't the case, i'd be very surprised, and all of the following is moot, but whatever:
anon, it may help to consider what you are to the professor. undergraduate researchers are, even when on their best behavior, something of a hassle already.
they have only a superficial knowledge of the sub-area they are working in, and cannot really work on a project without a lot of guidance, which takes up grad student/postdoc/professor time, which is already in incredibly short supply. but, they can be trained to do the shitty grunt work, which frees up some time, so
they have very little (zero, usually) experience working in a lab and are therefore much more likely to damage equipment or leave it all misconfigured and/or fucked up. their lack of confidence means they will sometimes not ask for help when they should, or having fucked something up, just not tell anyone and slink out, hoping nobody notices.
also, this being their first tentative steps outside the planned-out gymboree ball pit that is undergrad lab coursework, they will probably not know how to be safe. this is a problem even for the most conscientious of people, nevermind someone who is "casual" about safety stuff.
it sounds like you're working in a chem lab? if so, then this is a really big issue. i cannot fucking tell you how many times i've discovered some latent accident-waiting-to-happen and had to deal with it, at considerable personal risk, because someone didn't know how to properly store/dispose of waste, or stored some volatile organic right next to the acids, or whatever. you may not even be aware of all the little booby traps that you might be leaving scattered around.
you also may not appreciate what a HUGE MASSIVE GIANT DEAL it is for the professor if someone gets seriously hurt in their lab. from the point of view of the university administration, the responsibility is ultimately the prof's, and the hammer comes down hard on them, particularly if the safety rules are being systematically ignored.
the lab may get shut down, funding yanked, tenure possibly denied. this almost happened at my old school, to a professor who is very very highly regarded and who brings in a lot of money and great publicity, after someone was hurt (rather seriously, but they recovered and are fine now) in their lab. they would not be so forgiving of a young and, quite frankly, easily-replaced professor.
finally, the undergrad research assistant offers, on average, very little benefit in exchange for all this. it is pretty rare (not unheard of, for sure, but rare) for undergrads to, in the end, contribute meaningfully to a project, much less generate a publication. most of the time, they come in gung-ho, lay into their assigned grunt work, soon tire of the tedium, screw around until april, when they realize they haven't done much, then run around in a frenzy until they scrape together enough results to write a crappy thesis that satisfies their graduation requirements.
it's a good deal for the student, for they are learning all through this, but not so much for the professor who brings them in. (i am pretty sure, by the way, that nobody cares about whether you stay late in the lab to do your homework or surf the internet, so long as you aren't a) fucking up someone's experiment, b) endangering yourself or others, or c) using resources that prevent research from being done. it's a red herring, i promise.)
i'm saying all this because something about the tone of your post makes you sound a little bit cocky, in the way that upperclassmen who think they are hot shit often do. i think soaking up a little bit of humility, appreciating that there are probably 50 other undergrads just like you waiting to take your spot, and realizing that you have been done a big favor already are in order.
grok all of this, and understand that you've been kicked to the curb because you're a liability. the only way to get back in is to make it very clear to the prof what changes you're going to make that will turn you from that liability into an asset. you have to turn yourself into a net positive to be considered for a second chance at all. (and even then, honestly, it's not very likely to happen.)
posted by sergeant sandwich at 10:02 PM on October 14, 2008 [9 favorites]
anon, it may help to consider what you are to the professor. undergraduate researchers are, even when on their best behavior, something of a hassle already.
they have only a superficial knowledge of the sub-area they are working in, and cannot really work on a project without a lot of guidance, which takes up grad student/postdoc/professor time, which is already in incredibly short supply. but, they can be trained to do the shitty grunt work, which frees up some time, so
they have very little (zero, usually) experience working in a lab and are therefore much more likely to damage equipment or leave it all misconfigured and/or fucked up. their lack of confidence means they will sometimes not ask for help when they should, or having fucked something up, just not tell anyone and slink out, hoping nobody notices.
also, this being their first tentative steps outside the planned-out gymboree ball pit that is undergrad lab coursework, they will probably not know how to be safe. this is a problem even for the most conscientious of people, nevermind someone who is "casual" about safety stuff.
it sounds like you're working in a chem lab? if so, then this is a really big issue. i cannot fucking tell you how many times i've discovered some latent accident-waiting-to-happen and had to deal with it, at considerable personal risk, because someone didn't know how to properly store/dispose of waste, or stored some volatile organic right next to the acids, or whatever. you may not even be aware of all the little booby traps that you might be leaving scattered around.
you also may not appreciate what a HUGE MASSIVE GIANT DEAL it is for the professor if someone gets seriously hurt in their lab. from the point of view of the university administration, the responsibility is ultimately the prof's, and the hammer comes down hard on them, particularly if the safety rules are being systematically ignored.
the lab may get shut down, funding yanked, tenure possibly denied. this almost happened at my old school, to a professor who is very very highly regarded and who brings in a lot of money and great publicity, after someone was hurt (rather seriously, but they recovered and are fine now) in their lab. they would not be so forgiving of a young and, quite frankly, easily-replaced professor.
finally, the undergrad research assistant offers, on average, very little benefit in exchange for all this. it is pretty rare (not unheard of, for sure, but rare) for undergrads to, in the end, contribute meaningfully to a project, much less generate a publication. most of the time, they come in gung-ho, lay into their assigned grunt work, soon tire of the tedium, screw around until april, when they realize they haven't done much, then run around in a frenzy until they scrape together enough results to write a crappy thesis that satisfies their graduation requirements.
it's a good deal for the student, for they are learning all through this, but not so much for the professor who brings them in. (i am pretty sure, by the way, that nobody cares about whether you stay late in the lab to do your homework or surf the internet, so long as you aren't a) fucking up someone's experiment, b) endangering yourself or others, or c) using resources that prevent research from being done. it's a red herring, i promise.)
i'm saying all this because something about the tone of your post makes you sound a little bit cocky, in the way that upperclassmen who think they are hot shit often do. i think soaking up a little bit of humility, appreciating that there are probably 50 other undergrads just like you waiting to take your spot, and realizing that you have been done a big favor already are in order.
grok all of this, and understand that you've been kicked to the curb because you're a liability. the only way to get back in is to make it very clear to the prof what changes you're going to make that will turn you from that liability into an asset. you have to turn yourself into a net positive to be considered for a second chance at all. (and even then, honestly, it's not very likely to happen.)
posted by sergeant sandwich at 10:02 PM on October 14, 2008 [9 favorites]
I can't add much more to what's already been said. Sergeant Sandwich pretty much nails it.
But what I will say is that in my experience (postdoctoral biochemist) senior researchers tend to be very wary of people like you. Everyone has worked hard to get where they are, whether they be a professor, a postdoc or a PhD student: Working 50-60 hours a week... dealing with the stress of finding funding and fellowships.. scouring literature for leads.. doing hours of monotonous and often fruitless work.
Can you imagine how they must feel to see some cocky undergrad watching youtube videos and fracking up other's experiments?
If you are youtubing and playing music in the lab then you are not focussing on your work and are a cause of distraction to your fellow labmates. It might be nice to have your favourite song playing whilst you're working, but think of the poor girl next to you who is setting up a 96 well mutagenesis PCR experiment. One miscount will ruin hours of setting up, and potentially lead to weeks of trying to sort out the mess.
If you are 'in between measurements' then you should be planning your next experiments, reading papers or writing up results. Clearly you are not doing this, because if you were then I guarantee your boss would not have come down so hard on you.
Unless you understand this, and I mean really really have it ingrained in your DNA, then no amount of grovelling and sweet-talking is going to get you back in.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 2:39 AM on October 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
But what I will say is that in my experience (postdoctoral biochemist) senior researchers tend to be very wary of people like you. Everyone has worked hard to get where they are, whether they be a professor, a postdoc or a PhD student: Working 50-60 hours a week... dealing with the stress of finding funding and fellowships.. scouring literature for leads.. doing hours of monotonous and often fruitless work.
Can you imagine how they must feel to see some cocky undergrad watching youtube videos and fracking up other's experiments?
If you are youtubing and playing music in the lab then you are not focussing on your work and are a cause of distraction to your fellow labmates. It might be nice to have your favourite song playing whilst you're working, but think of the poor girl next to you who is setting up a 96 well mutagenesis PCR experiment. One miscount will ruin hours of setting up, and potentially lead to weeks of trying to sort out the mess.
If you are 'in between measurements' then you should be planning your next experiments, reading papers or writing up results. Clearly you are not doing this, because if you were then I guarantee your boss would not have come down so hard on you.
Unless you understand this, and I mean really really have it ingrained in your DNA, then no amount of grovelling and sweet-talking is going to get you back in.
posted by TheOtherGuy at 2:39 AM on October 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Adding mine to the pile of "you aren't clear about what you did wrong, and from what you've written I've sided with your professor." You don't sound mature enough to handle the responsibility and it sounds like your professor has already given you plenty of chances to prove otherwise. I doubt there's anything you can say to change his mind.
posted by Nattie at 6:33 AM on October 15, 2008
posted by Nattie at 6:33 AM on October 15, 2008
It doesn't answer your question for me to say this (I'm piling on too - your tenure at lab is, rightfully, dust) but it reminds me of a couple of lessons I learned along the way about the power of action vs. words. I think now that you're in this position there isn't much you could say to reverse Dr. X's decision because it sounds like, from your description, that you haven't been taking the professional environment seriously for a good long time now. It sounds like you don't have any good-will or demonstration of commitment to trade on at this point, so personally I would write a very apologetic letter thanking Dr. X for the experience and for all the things learned leveraging as much humility as I could muster, then I would cut my losses and gracefully as possible move on and find another lab.
At new lab (new era!), I would apply another principle I lhave earned along the way, and that is that a hallmark of maturity is to mentally note all the ways the environment around me offers perks, relaxation, and cordial opportunities to goof off, and I would then ignore all this and get on with being a professional, hard-working contributor, even if it means I am the only one doing so. There is nothing to be gained by squeezing an additional 15% out of the perks offered and taken by others around you. I would hazard a guess that everyone around you noticed that you took more liberites than everyone else, and there are probably many people who are glad to see you gone, and are relieved that you are no longer hanging around getting under foot and distracting everyone. You could see a similar situation as an opportunity to be a leader, by being the one who gets the shit done. You would really stand out in a positive way then.
posted by lottie at 3:38 PM on October 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
At new lab (new era!), I would apply another principle I lhave earned along the way, and that is that a hallmark of maturity is to mentally note all the ways the environment around me offers perks, relaxation, and cordial opportunities to goof off, and I would then ignore all this and get on with being a professional, hard-working contributor, even if it means I am the only one doing so. There is nothing to be gained by squeezing an additional 15% out of the perks offered and taken by others around you. I would hazard a guess that everyone around you noticed that you took more liberites than everyone else, and there are probably many people who are glad to see you gone, and are relieved that you are no longer hanging around getting under foot and distracting everyone. You could see a similar situation as an opportunity to be a leader, by being the one who gets the shit done. You would really stand out in a positive way then.
posted by lottie at 3:38 PM on October 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
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posted by ellenaim at 6:41 PM on October 14, 2008