Help me prove my friend wrong
September 11, 2008 8:50 AM Subscribe
"Already has" or "has already"
I'm working through an email announcing a new member of my team and have written the following line:
x has already a great deal of experience
My co-worker says this is wrong and it should be:
x already has a great deal of experience
but I'm not convinced and google isn't helping me.
Is there a proper use?
I'm working through an email announcing a new member of my team and have written the following line:
x has already a great deal of experience
My co-worker says this is wrong and it should be:
x already has a great deal of experience
but I'm not convinced and google isn't helping me.
Is there a proper use?
'already has', and I'm British. 'Has already' in the way you use it sounds like a German speaking English to me.
posted by altolinguistic at 9:01 AM on September 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by altolinguistic at 9:01 AM on September 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: "Already has" for nouns: "x already has a great deal of experience".
"Has already" for verbs: "x has already accrued a great deal of experience".
posted by Bodd at 9:01 AM on September 11, 2008 [8 favorites]
"Has already" for verbs: "x has already accrued a great deal of experience".
posted by Bodd at 9:01 AM on September 11, 2008 [8 favorites]
"Already has", for sure.
"Has already" sounds to me like it should be followed by a clause in the past tense, such as "a has already completed the work that was asked of him". Google results seem to mostly support this.
I'm Canadian.
posted by splice at 9:03 AM on September 11, 2008
"Has already" sounds to me like it should be followed by a clause in the past tense, such as "a has already completed the work that was asked of him". Google results seem to mostly support this.
I'm Canadian.
posted by splice at 9:03 AM on September 11, 2008
With 'already has' + noun or noun phrase, that sounds correct. So I think you are right on this one.
'Already has' + verb phrase, that sounds a bit weird. That's when your coworkers phrasing would work.
Compare "She already has three potatoes" with "She has already picked five peppers".
This might not be a standard thing, but that's what sounds more natural to my ears.
posted by amicamentis at 9:03 AM on September 11, 2008
'Already has' + verb phrase, that sounds a bit weird. That's when your coworkers phrasing would work.
Compare "She already has three potatoes" with "She has already picked five peppers".
This might not be a standard thing, but that's what sounds more natural to my ears.
posted by amicamentis at 9:03 AM on September 11, 2008
Bodd has already said what I was going to say.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:03 AM on September 11, 2008
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:03 AM on September 11, 2008
Nothing official to support the following, but I see the two as meaning the following:
"already has": has acquired something during a previous time, "Miles already has the boxed set of Heroes season 1."
"has already": has completed a task in advance of when it was expected, "Sally has already cleaned the fridge."
On preview, Bodd has it.
posted by Meagan at 9:04 AM on September 11, 2008
"already has": has acquired something during a previous time, "Miles already has the boxed set of Heroes season 1."
"has already": has completed a task in advance of when it was expected, "Sally has already cleaned the fridge."
On preview, Bodd has it.
posted by Meagan at 9:04 AM on September 11, 2008
I think it would be "has already" if the "already" was splitting the present perfect, i.e. "x has already experienced a great deal of..." But the way you're using it, I agree that it would be "x already has..."
posted by ferociouskitty at 9:04 AM on September 11, 2008
posted by ferociouskitty at 9:04 AM on September 11, 2008
'Has already' sounds better when accompanied with a past-tense verb: 'Bob has already walked the dog.'
With no verb it just sounds odd.
posted by spamguy at 9:06 AM on September 11, 2008
With no verb it just sounds odd.
posted by spamguy at 9:06 AM on September 11, 2008
American w/ English degree, fwiw. "already has a great deal of experience" would be correct. You could also use the construct: "x has a great deal of experience already" The reason is that "already" modifies the length of time x has had the experience.
"Has" is a verb form which necessitates an object. "Keith has." is meaningless as a sentence without the object. (provided it isn't the answer to a previous question. "who has experience? Keith has.")
Alternatively, you could construct the sentence with "X has already had a great deal of experience" but personally I think it weakens the sentence, and slightly alters the meaning.
So yeah, if your question was "excuse me, what time is it" my answer was basically "This is how you would build a clock". But hopefully I was a little helpful, at least. Are you in the States, or using British standard English?
posted by indiebass at 9:09 AM on September 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
"Has" is a verb form which necessitates an object. "Keith has." is meaningless as a sentence without the object. (provided it isn't the answer to a previous question. "who has experience? Keith has.")
Alternatively, you could construct the sentence with "X has already had a great deal of experience" but personally I think it weakens the sentence, and slightly alters the meaning.
So yeah, if your question was "excuse me, what time is it" my answer was basically "This is how you would build a clock". But hopefully I was a little helpful, at least. Are you in the States, or using British standard English?
posted by indiebass at 9:09 AM on September 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
The "has already" construction is fine when you are putting an adverb in the middle of a two-word verb. (Past conditional? Don't know what the tense is called.) "She has gone/done/picked/accrued/whatever."
"Already has" is what you use when "has" is the only verb (Straight past tense, I guess.)
posted by dame at 10:16 AM on September 11, 2008
"Already has" is what you use when "has" is the only verb (Straight past tense, I guess.)
posted by dame at 10:16 AM on September 11, 2008
"Has already" for verbs: "x has already accrued a great deal of experience".
Actually, I'd go with "already has" for verbs as well in cases like this example, unless it sounds odd in some circumstances, because otherwise you're splitting up the verb, the entirety of which is "has accrued." So "x already has accrued a great deal of experience." Basically, since already is always an adverb, you just have to figure out where the boundaries of the verb are, and not put it after or in the middle of the verb.
posted by limeonaire at 10:22 AM on September 11, 2008
Actually, I'd go with "already has" for verbs as well in cases like this example, unless it sounds odd in some circumstances, because otherwise you're splitting up the verb, the entirety of which is "has accrued." So "x already has accrued a great deal of experience." Basically, since already is always an adverb, you just have to figure out where the boundaries of the verb are, and not put it after or in the middle of the verb.
posted by limeonaire at 10:22 AM on September 11, 2008
otherwise you're splitting up the verb
This is nonsense. "Splitting up the verb" is routine in English (He isn't going, He's already gone, etc. etc.). People get that kind of thing from Strunk/White and other sources of folk wisdom that have nothing to do with the actual language.
posted by languagehat at 10:36 AM on September 11, 2008
This is nonsense. "Splitting up the verb" is routine in English (He isn't going, He's already gone, etc. etc.). People get that kind of thing from Strunk/White and other sources of folk wisdom that have nothing to do with the actual language.
posted by languagehat at 10:36 AM on September 11, 2008
I would say "x has a great deal of experience already." I like to keep the noun (x) and the verb (has) close together, for clarity and readability.
posted by muddgirl at 11:38 AM on September 11, 2008
posted by muddgirl at 11:38 AM on September 11, 2008
I think Bodd has it. The difference is whether the word “has” is the present tense form of the verb “to have,” or if it is a past tense modifier of another verb, as in “has done,” “has gained,” or “has had.”
posted by ijoshua at 1:18 PM on September 11, 2008
posted by ijoshua at 1:18 PM on September 11, 2008
otherwise you're splitting up the verb
This is nonsense. "Splitting up the verb" is routine in English (He isn't going, He's already gone, etc. etc.). People get that kind of thing from Strunk/White and other sources of folk wisdom that have nothing to do with the actual language.
You're right that there's no rule against splitting verbs, but I don't think Strunk & White has any rule about it. In fact, I doubt if any supposedly "prescriptivist" usage guide forbids it. Bill Walsh and James Lindgren are two prescriptivists who are adamantly in favor of it. So you're on the side of many usage experts on this one.
posted by Jaltcoh at 1:56 PM on September 11, 2008
This is nonsense. "Splitting up the verb" is routine in English (He isn't going, He's already gone, etc. etc.). People get that kind of thing from Strunk/White and other sources of folk wisdom that have nothing to do with the actual language.
You're right that there's no rule against splitting verbs, but I don't think Strunk & White has any rule about it. In fact, I doubt if any supposedly "prescriptivist" usage guide forbids it. Bill Walsh and James Lindgren are two prescriptivists who are adamantly in favor of it. So you're on the side of many usage experts on this one.
posted by Jaltcoh at 1:56 PM on September 11, 2008
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posted by jessamyn at 8:58 AM on September 11, 2008 [2 favorites]