What a way to make a living...
September 8, 2008 11:41 AM Subscribe
I have questions about finding a new job whilst working my current one and hating it. And changing careers. And what to say to recruiters so that I don't end up in an office environment like this again. And questions about references. Sigh. Oh and guilt.
I questioned last week about calling in sick while Boss was on hols, (but really came into the office, wherein I looked like I was mitching...) I relaxed [thanks everybody for advice!]. However. Coworker later said he'd asked her to spy/keep an eye on my days off while he was away and report back to him. Considering I was genuinely sick and it was my fifth sick day [all with certs] in 18 months, his behaviour is unacceptable IMHO. He is naturally suspicious [expolice officer] and angsty about his recent [3months] promotion to office manager, but getting someone I work with to spy on me? No. I've had longstanding problems with the work environment that I've always let slide. Until now. Time for a new job.
I plan using many different job agencies. Do I tell them the real reasons why I'm leaving, or do I make up something generic like 'I need a new direction'?
I also want to avoid ending up in a similar office environment, where the work ethic is beyond unreasonable, how do I stress this without sounding lazy or unwilling to work? I feel recruiters will focus on only finding me a position so they can get a comission, etc. During any interviews I attend, I'm really going to make an effort to suss out the prospective employer/office/etc.
Background reasons why I'm leaving also include:
a) Lunch hour is NOT observed [you only get to leave the office/take an hour if all the work is done. If it's a busy day, no lunch break for you. You're allowed to pop to the shop to get a sandwich, 5mins max]. If the no-lunch happens for 5 days of the week, then tough, we're busy.
b) Coworker [fellow admin, aged 45], who's been there 20+ years has to do every. single. task. herself. and is infuriatingly know-it-all, patronising and an utter workaholic. She's known not to take lunch/tea/bathroom breaks for the full day if there's dictation to type, and expects the same from you.
c) I start at 9:00. I do NOT want to feel guilty or late if I arrive at 8:30 or, shock horror, 8:50! It's not my problem that Boss has been in since 7:30 or that admin coworker likes to arrive at 8:00 [she should start at 9:00 too], flys through all the work for both of us, then brag about it.
e) If coworker is on leave, I've to do BOTH sets of work - which one person can't physically do. But then I look incompetant when the situation is reversed and coworker can do the work [by forgoing lunch/tea/bathroom breaks/breathing]
So far, I've kept the peace and played along. The money is good for a 25 year old who never went to college [raises hand] and there are many people who'd die for a regular, long-term 9-5. But spying? No. Being worked to the absolute bone? No.
I'm starting a night-time honours degree in Computing which will last three years. Any tips on what *type* of offices an admin/touchtypist might apply to, given what I'm learning at night? I'm good with and interested in computers, but have no formal qualifications [that's what this degree is for].
Also, references. The old boss is in a new line of work [loss assessor], but regularly speaks with new boss [loss adjuster]. Old boss was awesome and I know will give me a super reference. But I don't plan on handing in my notice until I have a job offer in writing. I've to work a month's notice [ugh] and hope to get a decent reference from new boss too. How do I handle that one? "Old boss? Will you give me a reference and not tell new boss I'm actively looking for a new job, even though you'll meet new boss on inspections?"
And... any help at the lingering guilt over not being able to hack a work environment like that? I feel coworker [and boss and other staff] look down on me for not being in 10 places at once. I'm trying to shrug it off and know deep down I'm a very good worker. And I'm being proactive by seeking out a better position. But there's this guilt still.
I questioned last week about calling in sick while Boss was on hols, (but really came into the office, wherein I looked like I was mitching...) I relaxed [thanks everybody for advice!]. However. Coworker later said he'd asked her to spy/keep an eye on my days off while he was away and report back to him. Considering I was genuinely sick and it was my fifth sick day [all with certs] in 18 months, his behaviour is unacceptable IMHO. He is naturally suspicious [expolice officer] and angsty about his recent [3months] promotion to office manager, but getting someone I work with to spy on me? No. I've had longstanding problems with the work environment that I've always let slide. Until now. Time for a new job.
I plan using many different job agencies. Do I tell them the real reasons why I'm leaving, or do I make up something generic like 'I need a new direction'?
I also want to avoid ending up in a similar office environment, where the work ethic is beyond unreasonable, how do I stress this without sounding lazy or unwilling to work? I feel recruiters will focus on only finding me a position so they can get a comission, etc. During any interviews I attend, I'm really going to make an effort to suss out the prospective employer/office/etc.
Background reasons why I'm leaving also include:
a) Lunch hour is NOT observed [you only get to leave the office/take an hour if all the work is done. If it's a busy day, no lunch break for you. You're allowed to pop to the shop to get a sandwich, 5mins max]. If the no-lunch happens for 5 days of the week, then tough, we're busy.
b) Coworker [fellow admin, aged 45], who's been there 20+ years has to do every. single. task. herself. and is infuriatingly know-it-all, patronising and an utter workaholic. She's known not to take lunch/tea/bathroom breaks for the full day if there's dictation to type, and expects the same from you.
c) I start at 9:00. I do NOT want to feel guilty or late if I arrive at 8:30 or, shock horror, 8:50! It's not my problem that Boss has been in since 7:30 or that admin coworker likes to arrive at 8:00 [she should start at 9:00 too], flys through all the work for both of us, then brag about it.
e) If coworker is on leave, I've to do BOTH sets of work - which one person can't physically do. But then I look incompetant when the situation is reversed and coworker can do the work [by forgoing lunch/tea/bathroom breaks/breathing]
So far, I've kept the peace and played along. The money is good for a 25 year old who never went to college [raises hand] and there are many people who'd die for a regular, long-term 9-5. But spying? No. Being worked to the absolute bone? No.
I'm starting a night-time honours degree in Computing which will last three years. Any tips on what *type* of offices an admin/touchtypist might apply to, given what I'm learning at night? I'm good with and interested in computers, but have no formal qualifications [that's what this degree is for].
Also, references. The old boss is in a new line of work [loss assessor], but regularly speaks with new boss [loss adjuster]. Old boss was awesome and I know will give me a super reference. But I don't plan on handing in my notice until I have a job offer in writing. I've to work a month's notice [ugh] and hope to get a decent reference from new boss too. How do I handle that one? "Old boss? Will you give me a reference and not tell new boss I'm actively looking for a new job, even though you'll meet new boss on inspections?"
And... any help at the lingering guilt over not being able to hack a work environment like that? I feel coworker [and boss and other staff] look down on me for not being in 10 places at once. I'm trying to shrug it off and know deep down I'm a very good worker. And I'm being proactive by seeking out a better position. But there's this guilt still.
Are you in the UK? I'm not sure how this would sound outside of the USA, but when I went job hunting I let them know that I expected "lifestyle balance" from my employers. This is a PC, cheesy way of saying "Do not expect me to kill myself for this job, I have been there, done that, and it's not happening again".
I used to feel guilty about having "harder" working co-workers and people who would show up early AND stay late. Then I took at good look at them and realized a few things. On the whole, people who do this are unhappy, mean and have no life outside of work. Many of them are taking prescriptions for stress, insomnia, high blood pressure and on and on. Also, if you have to show up early and stay late to complete your work, you're not very good or you're doing too much.
Your prospective employers are not giving you a job out of pity, or because they feel sorry for you. They are not your friends. Give them your attention, dedication and good attitude and they will give you a paycheck. That's it, nothing to feel guilty about. The only person you should be in competition with is yourself!
posted by lootie777 at 2:20 PM on September 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
I used to feel guilty about having "harder" working co-workers and people who would show up early AND stay late. Then I took at good look at them and realized a few things. On the whole, people who do this are unhappy, mean and have no life outside of work. Many of them are taking prescriptions for stress, insomnia, high blood pressure and on and on. Also, if you have to show up early and stay late to complete your work, you're not very good or you're doing too much.
Your prospective employers are not giving you a job out of pity, or because they feel sorry for you. They are not your friends. Give them your attention, dedication and good attitude and they will give you a paycheck. That's it, nothing to feel guilty about. The only person you should be in competition with is yourself!
posted by lootie777 at 2:20 PM on September 8, 2008 [1 favorite]
What lootie777 said. Saying you value a "healthy work/life balance" isn't such a crazy request.
posted by meta_eli at 5:18 PM on September 8, 2008
posted by meta_eli at 5:18 PM on September 8, 2008
But spying? No.
Your supervisor having someone supervise what you do at work isn't spying. It's... supervising. That said, if he's lousy at it, fuck him. Find a new job, and who cares about a reference- once you get a new job, you won't need more references.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:39 PM on September 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
Your supervisor having someone supervise what you do at work isn't spying. It's... supervising. That said, if he's lousy at it, fuck him. Find a new job, and who cares about a reference- once you get a new job, you won't need more references.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 9:39 PM on September 8, 2008 [2 favorites]
First off, don't bother with recruitment consultants. Seriously. They're fine for finding short-term temping work and for saving time if you're going for high-end positions where they will often spot opportunities that you don't have access to, but for anything in the middle they're a waste of time and, as you rightly realised, focused on their commission than your ultimate fit with a role and happiness.
Your profile doesn't say where you are, which to a large degree will dictate how you go about job hunting, but I'm guessing the US somewhere. I think a good first step is to do a survey of companies that operate in your local area and are within an acceptable commute for you (whether on foot, car, bike or public transport). Then whittle it down to things you think a) might be interesting and b) have development potential. It makes a massive difference to the ability to do administrative work if the work itself is interesting and you can see a clear route of training and potential.
Once you've got a shortlist, do some more research - companies that recruit directly will have regularly updated, detailed job listings on their own sites. If they're good companies to work for, they'll talk about the kinds of benefits they offer, work culture and what they expect from their people.
Apply directly, and be politely persistent. When people ask why you're leaving your current role, tell them you're not finding the work challenging in the good way, i.e. because it interests you, teaches you new skills and refines existing ones, and you are looking for a job that will do these things.
When it comes to the 'any questions for us' stage, ask them about the environment at work, flexibility, presenteeism and focus on results. There is a strong current of belief in many workplaces that 'work/life balance' is code for 'I want a cushy job', and 'flexibility' means 'I want to come in late and not get hassled about it'. But if you find the right company and emphasise your focus on actually getting things done rather than on you being at your desk for a certain number of hours each day, then that's a good indication of how you will be treated in the office. If questions along this line are met with blank stares, run like the wind, as you've found another workplace that values the appearance of hard work over quality and speed of work done. A 'you're not working hard unless you never take lunch' type of place.
Good luck!
posted by Happy Dave at 1:42 AM on September 9, 2008
Your profile doesn't say where you are, which to a large degree will dictate how you go about job hunting, but I'm guessing the US somewhere. I think a good first step is to do a survey of companies that operate in your local area and are within an acceptable commute for you (whether on foot, car, bike or public transport). Then whittle it down to things you think a) might be interesting and b) have development potential. It makes a massive difference to the ability to do administrative work if the work itself is interesting and you can see a clear route of training and potential.
Once you've got a shortlist, do some more research - companies that recruit directly will have regularly updated, detailed job listings on their own sites. If they're good companies to work for, they'll talk about the kinds of benefits they offer, work culture and what they expect from their people.
Apply directly, and be politely persistent. When people ask why you're leaving your current role, tell them you're not finding the work challenging in the good way, i.e. because it interests you, teaches you new skills and refines existing ones, and you are looking for a job that will do these things.
When it comes to the 'any questions for us' stage, ask them about the environment at work, flexibility, presenteeism and focus on results. There is a strong current of belief in many workplaces that 'work/life balance' is code for 'I want a cushy job', and 'flexibility' means 'I want to come in late and not get hassled about it'. But if you find the right company and emphasise your focus on actually getting things done rather than on you being at your desk for a certain number of hours each day, then that's a good indication of how you will be treated in the office. If questions along this line are met with blank stares, run like the wind, as you've found another workplace that values the appearance of hard work over quality and speed of work done. A 'you're not working hard unless you never take lunch' type of place.
Good luck!
posted by Happy Dave at 1:42 AM on September 9, 2008
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Offices like that will make you fucking crazy, drive up your blood pressure, and affect your studies negatively. You've got nothing to feel guilty about-- the first duty of a prisoner is escape, after all.
It's quite probable that your old boss already knows what an asshole your new boss is, but I'd just say "References available upon request" on your resume and hit your old boss up when the time comes, thus sparing you the need to draw anyone else into the conspiracy at this early date.
"I'm really looking forward to some new opportunities!" avoids any kind of interviewer bullshit. It's a social politeness thing, and it makes you sound vaguely ambitious. Good luck, dude.
posted by fairytale of los angeles at 12:01 PM on September 8, 2008 [1 favorite]