how can i restore peace in my high school major class?
September 4, 2008 2:00 PM Subscribe
How can i restore peace in my high school major class?
We were the first Music major class in 20 years and a class of ten people, and we had a funny relaxed leniant teacher so it seemed like the perfect course.
This lasted for about half a year and now after a year its become quite unbearable (which the teacher has remarked a few times now).
We all sit close together in a U formation and were all good friends. The thing is that people take the course way too relaxed and talk even when the teacher is talking and basically exploit the teachers kindness.
It all started as fun but now i can relate to the teachers annoyance.
Its not as if we're too stupid to stop chatting in lessons because every time he sets people aside and talks to them they agree about the atmosphere and to stop talking but eventually it drifts back to the original situation!
Please help, mefi!
We were the first Music major class in 20 years and a class of ten people, and we had a funny relaxed leniant teacher so it seemed like the perfect course.
This lasted for about half a year and now after a year its become quite unbearable (which the teacher has remarked a few times now).
We all sit close together in a U formation and were all good friends. The thing is that people take the course way too relaxed and talk even when the teacher is talking and basically exploit the teachers kindness.
It all started as fun but now i can relate to the teachers annoyance.
Its not as if we're too stupid to stop chatting in lessons because every time he sets people aside and talks to them they agree about the atmosphere and to stop talking but eventually it drifts back to the original situation!
Please help, mefi!
This is the teacher's responsibility. It sounds like he's established himself as a low status individual, which makes it impossible for people to take him seriously. See this excerpt from Keith Johnston book Impro - Johnston is a master at playing with how people extablish status.
The teacher has to be willing to raise his interpersonal status before the group will act respectfully. Can he get a colleague to come in and observe him and give him pointers?
posted by jasper411 at 2:20 PM on September 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
The teacher has to be willing to raise his interpersonal status before the group will act respectfully. Can he get a colleague to come in and observe him and give him pointers?
posted by jasper411 at 2:20 PM on September 4, 2008 [4 favorites]
If I were the teacher, I would give you guys a really difficult project of some kind that would force you to work together in small groups under tight timelines.
Sounds like the teacher is a good guy and the students pretty well-intentioned as well. So the chaos you're experiencing might just be a statistical thing brought about by too much "freedom to interrelate" (ie: it's impossible for one person to track ten people and all of their complex interrelations).
A better way to it illustrate is this:
Take one manager and four subordinates. Those four subordinates can think/interrelate in twenty-something ways (ie: person A and person B discussing something, persons AB + C discussing something, persons CD+A discussing something, person B thinking alone, person D thinking alone, persons A+D working together ... and so on).
One Manager can track all of this. But add a fifth subordinate and suddenly there's over one hundred possible inter-relations. Add a sixth and you're into the thousands. Get to ten and ... !?!?!?!
My advice. Yes, by all means break the ten into at least three groups, each with their own "Manager" who will then report to the teacher.
posted by philip-random at 2:26 PM on September 4, 2008
Sounds like the teacher is a good guy and the students pretty well-intentioned as well. So the chaos you're experiencing might just be a statistical thing brought about by too much "freedom to interrelate" (ie: it's impossible for one person to track ten people and all of their complex interrelations).
A better way to it illustrate is this:
Take one manager and four subordinates. Those four subordinates can think/interrelate in twenty-something ways (ie: person A and person B discussing something, persons AB + C discussing something, persons CD+A discussing something, person B thinking alone, person D thinking alone, persons A+D working together ... and so on).
One Manager can track all of this. But add a fifth subordinate and suddenly there's over one hundred possible inter-relations. Add a sixth and you're into the thousands. Get to ten and ... !?!?!?!
My advice. Yes, by all means break the ten into at least three groups, each with their own "Manager" who will then report to the teacher.
posted by philip-random at 2:26 PM on September 4, 2008
Response by poster: The trouble is finding a median between being the "mate" who invites us to his house now and then for hilarious course meetings and a serious teacher in class.
Is it really possible to maintain such a split personality?
posted by freddymetz at 2:26 PM on September 4, 2008
Is it really possible to maintain such a split personality?
posted by freddymetz at 2:26 PM on September 4, 2008
Is there any standardised testing involved? Because if so the teacher could hit the class with a practice standardised test, then when you all suck at it he could point to that and say "hey guys, I want you all to get good grades, but it looks like to make that happen we're going to have to do things a bit differently. So what say we put these desks in rows facing the front for the first half of the lesson and you listen to me, and then in the second half of the lesson we can discuss what we're looking at"
posted by Mike1024 at 2:28 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by Mike1024 at 2:28 PM on September 4, 2008
How about you suggest to your classmates that they sack up and take responsibility for the outcome of their own education?
posted by DarlingBri at 2:32 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by DarlingBri at 2:32 PM on September 4, 2008
Response by poster: mike1024: Would changing the seating arrang ement help change the atmosphere? What would be the best arrangement?
darlingbri: We've discussed it a few times in class already and all of us want good grades but it just seems to always drift back to the original atmosphere
posted by freddymetz at 2:36 PM on September 4, 2008
darlingbri: We've discussed it a few times in class already and all of us want good grades but it just seems to always drift back to the original atmosphere
posted by freddymetz at 2:36 PM on September 4, 2008
This is your teacher's problem. It's great if he can be a friend on top of being your teacher, but he's not there to be your friend - he's there to teach. Honestly, all of my best teachers (I'm a grad student) started by scaring the crap out of us. They were awesome, and often great, generous people who would have us at their places for parties, but first they showed us who was the boss.
posted by bettafish at 2:39 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by bettafish at 2:39 PM on September 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Set a good example by behaving the way you want your classmates to. Get a friend or two on your side and eventually the rest of the class will catch on too. You just need to have the self control to show your teacher respect even when your classmates don't.
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 2:40 PM on September 4, 2008
posted by martinX's bellbottoms at 2:40 PM on September 4, 2008
to be a good, effective teacher you have to risk not being liked. it sounds like your teacher wants to be liked more than he wants to impose order. maybe that worked at the beginning but it's not working now. he needs to bring some tough love to the classroom and get a bit stern.
not that it's easy to do that. I was a failure as a teacher because I couldn't be stern, I wanted to be liked! I respect teachers who have the ability to turn on the sternness when it's needed.
posted by beccyjoe at 2:42 PM on September 4, 2008
not that it's easy to do that. I was a failure as a teacher because I couldn't be stern, I wanted to be liked! I respect teachers who have the ability to turn on the sternness when it's needed.
posted by beccyjoe at 2:42 PM on September 4, 2008
Set a good example by behaving the way you want your classmates to.
Exactly. This is your chance to be the person you want everyone else to be. Stop talking in class. Any time your friends are talking, shush them so you can pay attention. The fact that this class is the first music major class in 20 years suggests to me that this class failing is bigger than you not learning anything; I would think it might encourage the administration to shut down the class and not give it another go for 20 years.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:26 PM on September 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Exactly. This is your chance to be the person you want everyone else to be. Stop talking in class. Any time your friends are talking, shush them so you can pay attention. The fact that this class is the first music major class in 20 years suggests to me that this class failing is bigger than you not learning anything; I would think it might encourage the administration to shut down the class and not give it another go for 20 years.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:26 PM on September 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
Sadly, this sounds like a lot of the classes I 'taught'. I no longer do classroom teaching.
What can you do? Work your arse off and give the guy the knowledge he's achieved something with one person in the room.
It's much harder to turn that situation around once you're there than it is to achieve a good balance from scratch. Unless he's moving on soon, I think you're stuck with the dynamic you've got.
Or, to paraphrase:
What beccyjoe said
posted by monkey closet at 4:27 PM on September 4, 2008
What can you do? Work your arse off and give the guy the knowledge he's achieved something with one person in the room.
It's much harder to turn that situation around once you're there than it is to achieve a good balance from scratch. Unless he's moving on soon, I think you're stuck with the dynamic you've got.
Or, to paraphrase:
What beccyjoe said
posted by monkey closet at 4:27 PM on September 4, 2008
You asked:
The trouble is finding a median between being the "mate" who invites us to his house now and then for hilarious course meetings and a serious teacher in class.
Is it really possible to maintain such a split personality?
It is possible, just like anything is possible, only it's very hard to do. There's something ingrained in us about the student/teacher relationship. It seems to function best when everyone plays the role they're supposed to play. When the teacher starts to play the role of the "cool friend" and invites you into their home, well that's when things get fuzzy. It sounds like the class has very little respect for him as an authority figure, as evidenced by their talking while he is trying to teach.
I've seen a few teachers like this in my day. All the kids think they're cool - and some are really nice people- but they're supposed to be teachers first, not your buddies. Part of a teacher's job is to provide a positive learning environment with structure and discipline, so that those who want to learn, like you, can learn. Teachers like yours take the "nice" approach to discipline to keep the peace and let students slide on things after a talking to, but get no respect for it. Kids know they can walk all over them if they wanted, and some do.
Unfortunately for you, he is the only one who can solve this problem and gain control and the respect of his class. But, if you really do respect this teacher, you should talk to him about it. In his efforts to be so nice, he may not be realizing the other effects it has on those students who want to learn.
posted by NoraCharles at 7:40 PM on September 4, 2008
The trouble is finding a median between being the "mate" who invites us to his house now and then for hilarious course meetings and a serious teacher in class.
Is it really possible to maintain such a split personality?
It is possible, just like anything is possible, only it's very hard to do. There's something ingrained in us about the student/teacher relationship. It seems to function best when everyone plays the role they're supposed to play. When the teacher starts to play the role of the "cool friend" and invites you into their home, well that's when things get fuzzy. It sounds like the class has very little respect for him as an authority figure, as evidenced by their talking while he is trying to teach.
I've seen a few teachers like this in my day. All the kids think they're cool - and some are really nice people- but they're supposed to be teachers first, not your buddies. Part of a teacher's job is to provide a positive learning environment with structure and discipline, so that those who want to learn, like you, can learn. Teachers like yours take the "nice" approach to discipline to keep the peace and let students slide on things after a talking to, but get no respect for it. Kids know they can walk all over them if they wanted, and some do.
Unfortunately for you, he is the only one who can solve this problem and gain control and the respect of his class. But, if you really do respect this teacher, you should talk to him about it. In his efforts to be so nice, he may not be realizing the other effects it has on those students who want to learn.
posted by NoraCharles at 7:40 PM on September 4, 2008
all of my best teachers (I'm a grad student) started by scaring the crap out of us
Hear hear. My favourite teacher ever was really nice until anyone talked when he did or was late with work, and then, well, not nice. I learnt almost all my maths from him.
posted by katrielalex at 4:46 AM on September 5, 2008
Hear hear. My favourite teacher ever was really nice until anyone talked when he did or was late with work, and then, well, not nice. I learnt almost all my maths from him.
posted by katrielalex at 4:46 AM on September 5, 2008
Your teacher can definitely change, but nothing will happen until he does.
It's impossible to take a person who could be high status but who insists on presenting himself as low status seriously, no matter how much you try. Imagine someone dressed up in a clown outfit teaching your class. This is like that. No matter how much you try to sit up straight, be quiet, pay attention, etc., you're ultimately going to lapse.
Watch the ways he behaves that are characteristic of being subservient/low status. Does he blush or stutter? Does he twitch or look around nervously and generally appear helpless/hapless? Does he hunch over or hold his shoulders up around his ears. Tell him to change those behaviors, and the class will change miraculously.
posted by jasper411 at 6:21 PM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
It's impossible to take a person who could be high status but who insists on presenting himself as low status seriously, no matter how much you try. Imagine someone dressed up in a clown outfit teaching your class. This is like that. No matter how much you try to sit up straight, be quiet, pay attention, etc., you're ultimately going to lapse.
Watch the ways he behaves that are characteristic of being subservient/low status. Does he blush or stutter? Does he twitch or look around nervously and generally appear helpless/hapless? Does he hunch over or hold his shoulders up around his ears. Tell him to change those behaviors, and the class will change miraculously.
posted by jasper411 at 6:21 PM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
If I were the teacher, I would give you guys a really difficult project of some kind that would force you to work together in small groups under tight timelines. And I would be a dick for awhile until I knew that my students understood that there were always two teachers in the room. Nice guy teacher and asshole do not make him go there teacher.
posted by maxpower at 2:09 PM on September 4, 2008