Attempting to get back together with an ex after a decade
May 7, 2018 11:09 PM Subscribe
I want to get back together with my ex from a decade ago but I'm upset by his recent behavior and can't decide how much of it to chalk up to past baggage/resentment.
I (female) dated my ex (male) for three years, a decade ago. He is still the only person I've ever been in love with and we were crazy about each other. We eventually went through a really painful breakup with a lot of hurt feelings on both sides. Looking back, the breakup was avoidable but we were young and stupid - we were in our mid-20s and didn't communicate well about things.
Afterward, we still talked and saw each other very occasionally, but for the most part, went on with our respective lives. At some point along the way, I realized I really wanted to give things another shot with him, but alas, he was dating someone (Emily).
Fast forward to two years ago. We met for a drink after not seeing each other for a long time. He told me he and Emily had just broken up. We talked about spending more time together to see if we would want to date again after so much time had gone by. The ball was in his court to organize this, and he did not, then one day I heard he had gotten back together with Emily and apparently had not bothered to tell me. I had had my hopes up so high and I was so angry that he hadn't even sent me a courtesy text letting me know we wouldn't be spending more time together because he'd gotten back together with her. I was *livid*. I sent him a very long, very angry email letting him know exactly how I felt. I didn't think I'd ever speak to him again.
Fast forward to 2018. We got back in touch again. He told me he was single, and last week we spent a lot of time together over the course of a few days. We had a great time and it was like old times, until he dropped this bombshell: two years ago, he and Emily had not actually broken up. They'd just been going through a rocky period and talking about breaking up, and he said that if he had arranged to spend time with me as we'd planned, he would have broken up with her before seeing me. When he saw that long angry email from me, he thought I hated him and he'd never be able to persuade me not to hate him, so he didn't reply to the email and continued dating Emily. I asked if he realized how much he had hurt me, and he said that he knew it sounded bad but at the time he had only thought of how angry I was, not how hurt I might've been.
I'm pretty shocked by the fact that he lied about breaking up with her, and even more shocked that he didn't seem to feel the need to apologize for it. He said that he felt he had apologized too much in past relationships, sometimes apologizing for things he didn't feel he'd done wrong, and that it was a pattern he was trying to break, especially if he might be able to start fresh with me. I can understand that but in my mind this lie was *definitely* something warranting an apology.
I said that I really needed to take some time to think about whether or not I could trust him after learning this.
In addition to the lie, there was a communication issue: when we parted ways last week, I expressed that I was afraid I might not hear from him again and he said that of course I would hear from him. I texted him that night and he didn't reply. The next morning, I texted again, asking if he was already ghosting me. (I can see now that sending that text put him on the defensive, though it was not my intention to do so.) After receiving no reply to that one either, I called him and asked what was up. He said that he had gone to sleep before my first text, and when he woke up and saw the ghosting text, he felt defensive. He said that he doesn't like texting and that he would've responded eventually but not necessarily immediately as he isn't one of those people who's attached to his phones and he prefers in-person communication.
I understand all this and regret that I put him on the defensive, but I also feel he should've cared about my feelings enough to reassure me that he wasn't ghosting me.
So...this is some bad stuff. The thing is, this guy is, or I guess used to be, one of the kindest people I knew. He treated me like gold while we were dating. I feel like these recent episodes are out of character and I also feel we have a lot of history and baggage between us that may be causing resentment on both sides.
I feel that between the lie and lack of apology and the texting thing, he's treating me pretty poorly, and I shouldn't have to ask him to treat me better. If he were a new guy acting this way, I wouldn't put up with this at all. But I know him, I feel this is out of character, and I wonder how much past resentment is influencing this.
Should I try to talk to him about this? If so, what should I say? He is the only person I've ever loved and I don't want to give up here. But I also feel I deserve much better treatment. I want to date the good guy I used to know, not this version of him - assuming the good guy still exists.
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
Thanks for any advice.
I (female) dated my ex (male) for three years, a decade ago. He is still the only person I've ever been in love with and we were crazy about each other. We eventually went through a really painful breakup with a lot of hurt feelings on both sides. Looking back, the breakup was avoidable but we were young and stupid - we were in our mid-20s and didn't communicate well about things.
Afterward, we still talked and saw each other very occasionally, but for the most part, went on with our respective lives. At some point along the way, I realized I really wanted to give things another shot with him, but alas, he was dating someone (Emily).
Fast forward to two years ago. We met for a drink after not seeing each other for a long time. He told me he and Emily had just broken up. We talked about spending more time together to see if we would want to date again after so much time had gone by. The ball was in his court to organize this, and he did not, then one day I heard he had gotten back together with Emily and apparently had not bothered to tell me. I had had my hopes up so high and I was so angry that he hadn't even sent me a courtesy text letting me know we wouldn't be spending more time together because he'd gotten back together with her. I was *livid*. I sent him a very long, very angry email letting him know exactly how I felt. I didn't think I'd ever speak to him again.
Fast forward to 2018. We got back in touch again. He told me he was single, and last week we spent a lot of time together over the course of a few days. We had a great time and it was like old times, until he dropped this bombshell: two years ago, he and Emily had not actually broken up. They'd just been going through a rocky period and talking about breaking up, and he said that if he had arranged to spend time with me as we'd planned, he would have broken up with her before seeing me. When he saw that long angry email from me, he thought I hated him and he'd never be able to persuade me not to hate him, so he didn't reply to the email and continued dating Emily. I asked if he realized how much he had hurt me, and he said that he knew it sounded bad but at the time he had only thought of how angry I was, not how hurt I might've been.
I'm pretty shocked by the fact that he lied about breaking up with her, and even more shocked that he didn't seem to feel the need to apologize for it. He said that he felt he had apologized too much in past relationships, sometimes apologizing for things he didn't feel he'd done wrong, and that it was a pattern he was trying to break, especially if he might be able to start fresh with me. I can understand that but in my mind this lie was *definitely* something warranting an apology.
I said that I really needed to take some time to think about whether or not I could trust him after learning this.
In addition to the lie, there was a communication issue: when we parted ways last week, I expressed that I was afraid I might not hear from him again and he said that of course I would hear from him. I texted him that night and he didn't reply. The next morning, I texted again, asking if he was already ghosting me. (I can see now that sending that text put him on the defensive, though it was not my intention to do so.) After receiving no reply to that one either, I called him and asked what was up. He said that he had gone to sleep before my first text, and when he woke up and saw the ghosting text, he felt defensive. He said that he doesn't like texting and that he would've responded eventually but not necessarily immediately as he isn't one of those people who's attached to his phones and he prefers in-person communication.
I understand all this and regret that I put him on the defensive, but I also feel he should've cared about my feelings enough to reassure me that he wasn't ghosting me.
So...this is some bad stuff. The thing is, this guy is, or I guess used to be, one of the kindest people I knew. He treated me like gold while we were dating. I feel like these recent episodes are out of character and I also feel we have a lot of history and baggage between us that may be causing resentment on both sides.
I feel that between the lie and lack of apology and the texting thing, he's treating me pretty poorly, and I shouldn't have to ask him to treat me better. If he were a new guy acting this way, I wouldn't put up with this at all. But I know him, I feel this is out of character, and I wonder how much past resentment is influencing this.
Should I try to talk to him about this? If so, what should I say? He is the only person I've ever loved and I don't want to give up here. But I also feel I deserve much better treatment. I want to date the good guy I used to know, not this version of him - assuming the good guy still exists.
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
Thanks for any advice.
Why would you get back together with someone who would "obviously require couple's counseling", lied to you and lead you on - emotionally cheating on their current partner, only chats you up with he's "single", ghosts on you, doesn't believe in apologizing for lying, and for which you have resentment?
Honestly. Think about this. I see no positives here. Resentment is a killer for romance. Things obviously weren't golden when you were dating, otherwise you wouldn't have broken up.
Leave this behind. Go to individual counseling. This relationship is far too much drama and negativity.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:30 PM on May 7, 2018 [58 favorites]
Honestly. Think about this. I see no positives here. Resentment is a killer for romance. Things obviously weren't golden when you were dating, otherwise you wouldn't have broken up.
Leave this behind. Go to individual counseling. This relationship is far too much drama and negativity.
posted by Crystalinne at 11:30 PM on May 7, 2018 [58 favorites]
Too much drama already. It sounds like he knows exactly how you feel and likes having you on the back burner to pull out whenever it suits him, with no regard at all for you (he didn’t even consider you could be hurt by the idea that he was back with his ex and never told you.) Let the way he’s been treating you now extinguish any particular flame you’ve been holding for him. I hope now you see who he really is you can move on properly.
posted by Jubey at 11:31 PM on May 7, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 11:31 PM on May 7, 2018 [7 favorites]
"...I shouldn't have to ask him to treat me better. If he were a new guy acting this way, I wouldn't put up with this at all. But I know him..."
This. "But I know them" is my own most-used phrase to avoid facing the truth of a situation about someone's behavior or character. Knowing, no matter for how long or how intimately, does not equate to permission to hurt another person.
The good guy you knew is an amalgamation of 15% what actually happened during your time together and 85% of ten years of time that has passed to gloss over the things that were happening at the time that caused you not to be together anymore. You've already mourned this person. This new zombie version of him *is* who he is now. Move on, very quickly.
posted by Merinda at 11:32 PM on May 7, 2018 [14 favorites]
This. "But I know them" is my own most-used phrase to avoid facing the truth of a situation about someone's behavior or character. Knowing, no matter for how long or how intimately, does not equate to permission to hurt another person.
The good guy you knew is an amalgamation of 15% what actually happened during your time together and 85% of ten years of time that has passed to gloss over the things that were happening at the time that caused you not to be together anymore. You've already mourned this person. This new zombie version of him *is* who he is now. Move on, very quickly.
posted by Merinda at 11:32 PM on May 7, 2018 [14 favorites]
It really sounds like you're being treated as the definition of a backup plan. So unless you're into some sort of psychologically demeaning thing, this doesn't strike me as healthy to pursue, or even tolerate.
posted by rokusan at 11:40 PM on May 7, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by rokusan at 11:40 PM on May 7, 2018 [16 favorites]
If I were you, I would not get back together with him. If he asked me what he should do, I would advise him not to get back together with you. I do not know what it is, but there was a reason it did not work out years ago and it does not sound like time magically made that reason go away.
posted by AugustWest at 11:41 PM on May 7, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 11:41 PM on May 7, 2018 [9 favorites]
Like Macon realises in The Accidental Touriet, it's not how much you love someone, but *who you are* when you're in love with that person.
*who you are* in this relationship is probably familiar developmentally: he feels from what you've written like some kind of home base. You are resentful, anxious, policing, making unmet 'bids' and angry.
This is the time to take these very deep feelings, and their activation around your ex, to a therapist. Lay it out to her, like you have here, and then explore these feelings carefully. Reflect on why you have an addiction to an abandoning, dishonest, avoidant, emotionally distant, (giant lying man baby, imo), game playing, pathetic excuse making, man. Explore why this is your home base.
Enough thinking about him, as your object of relationship prey; enough thinking about his anger- making enactments; enough thinking about the past relationship in detail - take it to the next level, and reflect on why these things feel like Relationship or Love to you.
*who you are* around this particular relationship is not going to change. These things would need such commitment to ongoing therapy in which two people were genuinely desiring a good relationship model, not litigating, two people genuinely committing to unraveling themselves, that it's unlikely to move along successfully, or restore trust or love.
But looking at future Love or Relationship, test out the notion of *who you are* when you around other dates. Relaxed? Secure? Warm? Nurtured? stimulated? Desired? Calm? And what new parts of yourself, dropping the guard of anxious anger, you could lavish on an other. Like, nurturing, praise, affection, dialogue (no more frustrating monologues!), pats and sweetness. Who is going to bring that out on you?
Not this guy.
posted by honey-barbara at 12:21 AM on May 8, 2018 [50 favorites]
*who you are* in this relationship is probably familiar developmentally: he feels from what you've written like some kind of home base. You are resentful, anxious, policing, making unmet 'bids' and angry.
This is the time to take these very deep feelings, and their activation around your ex, to a therapist. Lay it out to her, like you have here, and then explore these feelings carefully. Reflect on why you have an addiction to an abandoning, dishonest, avoidant, emotionally distant, (giant lying man baby, imo), game playing, pathetic excuse making, man. Explore why this is your home base.
Enough thinking about him, as your object of relationship prey; enough thinking about his anger- making enactments; enough thinking about the past relationship in detail - take it to the next level, and reflect on why these things feel like Relationship or Love to you.
*who you are* around this particular relationship is not going to change. These things would need such commitment to ongoing therapy in which two people were genuinely desiring a good relationship model, not litigating, two people genuinely committing to unraveling themselves, that it's unlikely to move along successfully, or restore trust or love.
But looking at future Love or Relationship, test out the notion of *who you are* when you around other dates. Relaxed? Secure? Warm? Nurtured? stimulated? Desired? Calm? And what new parts of yourself, dropping the guard of anxious anger, you could lavish on an other. Like, nurturing, praise, affection, dialogue (no more frustrating monologues!), pats and sweetness. Who is going to bring that out on you?
Not this guy.
posted by honey-barbara at 12:21 AM on May 8, 2018 [50 favorites]
I want to hug you, I've been this dumb and TRULY in Love.
No.
It's a process to get past this, but it's next level worth it. You will be a better person on average if you walk away from this. Please like yourself more than this guy likes you, or you like him. Fuck how much you like him. Love is real connection. THIS IS NOT LOVE. Love is so much deeper. It will hurt to give this dream up. It is worth it.
posted by jbenben at 12:47 AM on May 8, 2018 [13 favorites]
No.
It's a process to get past this, but it's next level worth it. You will be a better person on average if you walk away from this. Please like yourself more than this guy likes you, or you like him. Fuck how much you like him. Love is real connection. THIS IS NOT LOVE. Love is so much deeper. It will hurt to give this dream up. It is worth it.
posted by jbenben at 12:47 AM on May 8, 2018 [13 favorites]
I definitely do not think you should give this guy another chance. He is behaving like a 20 year old, not a mid-30s man with his shit together. These kinds of things don't get better once you get in a relationship with someone. I find it hard to understand why you are even considering seeing more of him after all these, very red, flags.
Edited to add: in reality you don't ever date the version of someone that you hope/remember them to be. You date who they show themselves to be, who they are, right now.
posted by thereader at 1:14 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
Edited to add: in reality you don't ever date the version of someone that you hope/remember them to be. You date who they show themselves to be, who they are, right now.
posted by thereader at 1:14 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
I feel like these recent episodes are out of character
You don't know this man. You knew him 10 years ago. Pro tip: you can think you know someone, and not know them at all. People think they know the spouses who turn out to be serial rapists. People think they know the best friend who moves to another city and never contacts them again.
and I also feel we have a lot of history and baggage between us that may be causing resentment on both sides.
I think you two should not date.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:15 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
You don't know this man. You knew him 10 years ago. Pro tip: you can think you know someone, and not know them at all. People think they know the spouses who turn out to be serial rapists. People think they know the best friend who moves to another city and never contacts them again.
and I also feel we have a lot of history and baggage between us that may be causing resentment on both sides.
I think you two should not date.
posted by DarlingBri at 1:15 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
He treated me like gold while we were dating.
You think you're going to be dating the guy you dated 10 years ago. You're not. You'd be dating this guy:
I feel that between the lie and lack of apology and the texting thing, he's treating me pretty poorly, and I shouldn't have to ask him to treat me better. If he were a new guy acting this way, I wouldn't put up with this at all.
He's not a new guy, but this is the guy he is today.
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
Oh honey, you deserve better.
posted by like_neon at 1:51 AM on May 8, 2018 [10 favorites]
You think you're going to be dating the guy you dated 10 years ago. You're not. You'd be dating this guy:
I feel that between the lie and lack of apology and the texting thing, he's treating me pretty poorly, and I shouldn't have to ask him to treat me better. If he were a new guy acting this way, I wouldn't put up with this at all.
He's not a new guy, but this is the guy he is today.
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
Oh honey, you deserve better.
posted by like_neon at 1:51 AM on May 8, 2018 [10 favorites]
Your expectations are so high for this man and this relationship and clearly he isn’t prepared to meet them. Relationships can weather differences in expectations over the years but starting out like this, with such a disparity strikes me as leading to huge disappointment on your side and resentment on his.
posted by sciencegeek at 2:05 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by sciencegeek at 2:05 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
He is treating you like crap.
He is also treating Emily like crap by entertaining the idea of dating you while he's actually still entangled with her.
You therefore have two good pieces of data suggesting that dating him again would entail being treated like crap.
This guy is a hard nope.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 2:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [21 favorites]
He is also treating Emily like crap by entertaining the idea of dating you while he's actually still entangled with her.
You therefore have two good pieces of data suggesting that dating him again would entail being treated like crap.
This guy is a hard nope.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 2:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [21 favorites]
I think you want this to work as a kind of cosmic do-over like Groundhog Day, but that's not going to happen and I'm not sure why you can't see that. Let's pull apart a few things:
1. You have history of a failed relationship.
2. Two years ago you got together and at the time, while floating the idea of you two dating, he lied about having a girlfriend. He cared about you so much that he wanted to get back together, except if that didn't work he'd stick with Emily.
3. After saying he wanted to get back together two years ago, he ghosted you.
4. You sent an angry email referring to his lies, and despite him wanting to get back together with you, he didn't think it necessary to respond because you were justifiably angry and your big girl anger scared him enough to not want to respond. To an email.
5. You recently got together and he's still talking about Emily.
6. After saying he once again wants to get back together, he doesn't contact you but after you text twice and then call, he has REASONS ("I don't like texting! I was asleep! I would have contacted you eventually! I dropped my phone in a puddle! I lost my phone saving kittens from a tree! My dog died!").
7. He doesn't like apologizing, and made it clear that if you two date, apologizing is not a Thing he is going to do.
8. You're convinced you still want to date the guy you used to know (the one you had a bad breakup with), not this new version who is an asshole because you think for some reason this new version is not who he is. Of course this is who he is. He's SHOWING you who he is.
9. And if you somehow can convince him to communicate and answer texts and not ghost you and commit to dating, you want to immediately begin counseling so you can fix all of the things that haven't happened yet.
I honestly can't even see why you're putting any energy at all into this. This guy is showing you exactly who he is. He lies. He doesn't text. He's not going to try to understand your perspective. He won't apologize for anything.
There is nothing here for you. Move on.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:14 AM on May 8, 2018 [41 favorites]
1. You have history of a failed relationship.
2. Two years ago you got together and at the time, while floating the idea of you two dating, he lied about having a girlfriend. He cared about you so much that he wanted to get back together, except if that didn't work he'd stick with Emily.
3. After saying he wanted to get back together two years ago, he ghosted you.
4. You sent an angry email referring to his lies, and despite him wanting to get back together with you, he didn't think it necessary to respond because you were justifiably angry and your big girl anger scared him enough to not want to respond. To an email.
5. You recently got together and he's still talking about Emily.
6. After saying he once again wants to get back together, he doesn't contact you but after you text twice and then call, he has REASONS ("I don't like texting! I was asleep! I would have contacted you eventually! I dropped my phone in a puddle! I lost my phone saving kittens from a tree! My dog died!").
7. He doesn't like apologizing, and made it clear that if you two date, apologizing is not a Thing he is going to do.
8. You're convinced you still want to date the guy you used to know (the one you had a bad breakup with), not this new version who is an asshole because you think for some reason this new version is not who he is. Of course this is who he is. He's SHOWING you who he is.
9. And if you somehow can convince him to communicate and answer texts and not ghost you and commit to dating, you want to immediately begin counseling so you can fix all of the things that haven't happened yet.
I honestly can't even see why you're putting any energy at all into this. This guy is showing you exactly who he is. He lies. He doesn't text. He's not going to try to understand your perspective. He won't apologize for anything.
There is nothing here for you. Move on.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 4:14 AM on May 8, 2018 [41 favorites]
Man, based on his weird "I apologized too much in the past so I am working on not apologizing" thing alone, he's not a good option. Add in all the other stuff and this is a big hot negative.
You deserve to be treated well.
Also, couples counseling is not really for establishing relationships; it's for established relationships that have gotten a bit wobbly. Your relationship with this man isn't established.
It is very hard to love someone who does not treat us well. I am sorry it is turning out this way. Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 4:37 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
You deserve to be treated well.
Also, couples counseling is not really for establishing relationships; it's for established relationships that have gotten a bit wobbly. Your relationship with this man isn't established.
It is very hard to love someone who does not treat us well. I am sorry it is turning out this way. Best of luck.
posted by sockermom at 4:37 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
The MetaFilter time machine predicts future questions if you pursue this relationship:
Why does my boyfriend never answer my texts?
How do I know if he loves Emily more than me?
My boyfriend lies all the time to get out of conflict, why?
Why won’t my boyfriend commit to marriage?
My husband never apologizes...even after having an emotional affair.
Why have I wasted TWO DECADES on someone that I dumped a long time ago, when I was apparently smarter?
posted by warriorqueen at 4:39 AM on May 8, 2018 [49 favorites]
Why does my boyfriend never answer my texts?
How do I know if he loves Emily more than me?
My boyfriend lies all the time to get out of conflict, why?
Why won’t my boyfriend commit to marriage?
My husband never apologizes...even after having an emotional affair.
Why have I wasted TWO DECADES on someone that I dumped a long time ago, when I was apparently smarter?
posted by warriorqueen at 4:39 AM on May 8, 2018 [49 favorites]
He said that he felt he had apologized too much in past relationships, sometimes apologizing for things he didn't feel he'd done wrong, and that it was a pattern he was trying to break
Um, yeah, except the only way he seems to be not trying to break this habit is by no longer doing things he should be apologizing for!
Seriously, this guy should be on his best behaviour, doing absolutely everything he can to convince you to bet on him for a third time and instead, he seems to be bending over backwards to show you why dating him is only going to make you feel frustrated, used, confused, and angry.
I suspect that a big part of the reason you are even considering this is that real dating is hard, and this guy seems familiar. That's not a good enough reason to set yourself up for this kind of grief.
Sometimes you have to have your own back. Give this guy a miss, and be prepared to reap the gratitude from your future self.
posted by rpfields at 4:49 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
Um, yeah, except the only way he seems to be not trying to break this habit is by no longer doing things he should be apologizing for!
Seriously, this guy should be on his best behaviour, doing absolutely everything he can to convince you to bet on him for a third time and instead, he seems to be bending over backwards to show you why dating him is only going to make you feel frustrated, used, confused, and angry.
I suspect that a big part of the reason you are even considering this is that real dating is hard, and this guy seems familiar. That's not a good enough reason to set yourself up for this kind of grief.
Sometimes you have to have your own back. Give this guy a miss, and be prepared to reap the gratitude from your future self.
posted by rpfields at 4:49 AM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
He's got as much history with "Emily" as with you at this point and you must know he's doing the same shit with her every time he's not actively talking with you. I don't mean two years ago, I mean like last night.
He treated me like gold while we were dating. I feel like these recent episodes are out of character
He told you that this -- treating women with respect, which means apologizing when he hurts them as well as not actually hurting them -- was the pattern he'd decided to break. he's broken it. he's proud of not being like that anymore. he told you in detail that he's decided not to be considerate anymore like he used to be because he didn't enjoy it, so too bad if you did. he said that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:35 AM on May 8, 2018 [16 favorites]
He treated me like gold while we were dating. I feel like these recent episodes are out of character
He told you that this -- treating women with respect, which means apologizing when he hurts them as well as not actually hurting them -- was the pattern he'd decided to break. he's broken it. he's proud of not being like that anymore. he told you in detail that he's decided not to be considerate anymore like he used to be because he didn't enjoy it, so too bad if you did. he said that.
posted by queenofbithynia at 5:35 AM on May 8, 2018 [16 favorites]
This is the equivalent of an old sweater with holes in it that is in our closet - it's so comfortable, and we've never found anything in the interim that is so comfortable, so we keep it and pretend like it's not garbage. Yet if we see a friend or family member in their version of that sweater, instantly we recognize it for the garbage it is and chide them for keeping such a worthless piece of clothing.
I think the only reason you're trying to make this work is you've not fallen in love with anyone else and therefore think this guy is the only one that will ever fit this way. But what you're missing is - what this once was isn't what it is today. You're ignoring the fact that the bottom of this sweater is completely frayed and seeing it as the same sweater it was when you bought it. You have to call him the day after a date to make sure he's not ghosting you. That's not the same.
If you were to see a friend going through this specific pattern with a guy, I think you'd instantly recognize that this is not a relationship worth having anymore. I think you'd point out that, maybe this was special once, but there are too many holes now.
You need to get over the fear of not finding another comfortable sweater and throw this one out because it is garbage.
posted by notorious medium at 5:47 AM on May 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
I think the only reason you're trying to make this work is you've not fallen in love with anyone else and therefore think this guy is the only one that will ever fit this way. But what you're missing is - what this once was isn't what it is today. You're ignoring the fact that the bottom of this sweater is completely frayed and seeing it as the same sweater it was when you bought it. You have to call him the day after a date to make sure he's not ghosting you. That's not the same.
If you were to see a friend going through this specific pattern with a guy, I think you'd instantly recognize that this is not a relationship worth having anymore. I think you'd point out that, maybe this was special once, but there are too many holes now.
You need to get over the fear of not finding another comfortable sweater and throw this one out because it is garbage.
posted by notorious medium at 5:47 AM on May 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
If you found out he’s not actually single right now (whether he’s with Emily or someone else), would you even be surprised? Don’t do this.
posted by MadamM at 5:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by MadamM at 5:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
He used to be a good boyfriend. He isn't any more. If you get back together with him, he's just going to continue to do this shit about going back and forth between you and Emily. He is no longer a good boyfriend.
I feel for you because I got unfortunately surprised along these lines myself a few months ago and that's retroactively ruined my good memories. But..you can't keep hoping you can get back together with this guy if he's pulling this shit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:26 AM on May 8, 2018
I feel for you because I got unfortunately surprised along these lines myself a few months ago and that's retroactively ruined my good memories. But..you can't keep hoping you can get back together with this guy if he's pulling this shit.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:26 AM on May 8, 2018
At first I thought this question was going to ask— how do I drop the baggage and move towards a relationship...
In which case my advice would be that you need to be able to take him as he is right now...
So that is actually still my advice.
How is he treating you now?
What kind of character is he showing now?
That’s the man you would be dating.
posted by calgirl at 6:39 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
In which case my advice would be that you need to be able to take him as he is right now...
So that is actually still my advice.
How is he treating you now?
What kind of character is he showing now?
That’s the man you would be dating.
posted by calgirl at 6:39 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
I don't mean to be flip, but this is how far I got into your question:
"I want to get back together with my ex from a decade ago but I'm upset by his recent behavior and can't decide how much of it to chalk up to past baggage/resentment."
before I had my answer which is, "Please no."
posted by komara at 6:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
"I want to get back together with my ex from a decade ago but I'm upset by his recent behavior and can't decide how much of it to chalk up to past baggage/resentment."
before I had my answer which is, "Please no."
posted by komara at 6:50 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
I don't get it, you're rhapsodic about the person he was ten years ago, but you had a painful breakup then, too. I'm not sure what you think you're chasing.
Obviously you should not entangle any further; and, yeah, individual therapy for you to see why you're so obsessed with a man that makes you feel like shit.
[and good luck with this. sometimes we humans just fixate. sometimes love makes us crazy. I've been there myself and it was terrible. let me tell you it feels NOTHING at all like a real relationship.]
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:52 AM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
Obviously you should not entangle any further; and, yeah, individual therapy for you to see why you're so obsessed with a man that makes you feel like shit.
[and good luck with this. sometimes we humans just fixate. sometimes love makes us crazy. I've been there myself and it was terrible. let me tell you it feels NOTHING at all like a real relationship.]
posted by fingersandtoes at 6:52 AM on May 8, 2018 [3 favorites]
we were in our mid-20s and didn't communicate well about things.
And now you're in your mid-30s and not communicating well about things.
Find somebody you can communicate well with.
posted by flabdablet at 6:53 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
And now you're in your mid-30s and not communicating well about things.
Find somebody you can communicate well with.
posted by flabdablet at 6:53 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
Every time you have a fight or he acts distant or is weird about his phone or whereabouts you are going to wonder who is the woman he's entertaining by telling her that he's single. Men who lie about not being in a relationship to see if there's a new tree branch to swing to first are terrible partners. Don't be this guy's tree branch while he spends the whole time finding the exit.
If you find yourself writing him another long tortured email about all the ways you're hurt, write it, read it, burn it. Or take it to therapy. This man doesn't deserve that sort of out pouring from you.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 7:20 AM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you find yourself writing him another long tortured email about all the ways you're hurt, write it, read it, burn it. Or take it to therapy. This man doesn't deserve that sort of out pouring from you.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 7:20 AM on May 8, 2018 [2 favorites]
I (female) dated my ex (male) for three years, a decade ago. He is still the only person I've ever been in love with and we were crazy about each other.
Even if this other stuff wasn't going on, there are about a million red flags about the idea that it's been a decade and you haven't been in love even one badly-planned time since then, and he's absolutely been dating. You've been hung up this whole time, while he... wasn't. Ten years is a super, super long time to be pining after somebody who's actually moved on, but it took somewhere between five and eight years after you broke up to actually spend any time together again and you weren't even enough in contact to be aware of who he's dating.
He went off and changed while you weren't in contact with him, but the thing you're still in love with is a decade-old memory. Even if he were behaving better, you'd have to be cautious about committing to the person he is now versus the person you vaguely remember he was then. And then we add onto that a person-he-is-now who is kinda shitty. Don't.
posted by Sequence at 7:30 AM on May 8, 2018 [9 favorites]
Even if this other stuff wasn't going on, there are about a million red flags about the idea that it's been a decade and you haven't been in love even one badly-planned time since then, and he's absolutely been dating. You've been hung up this whole time, while he... wasn't. Ten years is a super, super long time to be pining after somebody who's actually moved on, but it took somewhere between five and eight years after you broke up to actually spend any time together again and you weren't even enough in contact to be aware of who he's dating.
He went off and changed while you weren't in contact with him, but the thing you're still in love with is a decade-old memory. Even if he were behaving better, you'd have to be cautious about committing to the person he is now versus the person you vaguely remember he was then. And then we add onto that a person-he-is-now who is kinda shitty. Don't.
posted by Sequence at 7:30 AM on May 8, 2018 [9 favorites]
Oh man. This sucks. Um, so first of all I am pretty sure that he wasn't looking to get back together with you those times, he was looking to have his ego stroked and possibly get laid.
Second of all I am pretty sure he is not looking to get together with you in any significant way now, which is why he doesn't care if his bad behaviour hurts you.
Third, treating someone you are dating well isn't special. It is normal. He doesn't get extra points for that, just like I don't get extra points with my friends for not, say, punching them in the face. However, there is a degree of charmingness and/or pampering that isn't actually nice, it is a means of controlling the other person and making them compliant and dependant.
Look, a situation like this is like smoking. Have you ever been a smoker? You know it's bad. You know it is dangerous and smelly and bad for the environment. You know it is expensive and doesn't even feel that great most of the time. If you ask 1000 people how to make smoking healthier and cheaper they will probably all tell you to quit, even the smokers. But until you are willing to quit, it doesn't matter.
You already know the answer here. You don't need us to tell you. If you want to keep beating yourself over the head with this addiction, do it. But accept and admit to yourself the reality of what is happening. This guy is a jerk and he probably always has been. The relationship is a dud and he is never going to stop upsetting you. The attention and hope and fear and fretting are what you are getting out of this relationship and when those stop being satisfying you will be able to walk away.
posted by windykites at 8:02 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
Second of all I am pretty sure he is not looking to get together with you in any significant way now, which is why he doesn't care if his bad behaviour hurts you.
Third, treating someone you are dating well isn't special. It is normal. He doesn't get extra points for that, just like I don't get extra points with my friends for not, say, punching them in the face. However, there is a degree of charmingness and/or pampering that isn't actually nice, it is a means of controlling the other person and making them compliant and dependant.
Look, a situation like this is like smoking. Have you ever been a smoker? You know it's bad. You know it is dangerous and smelly and bad for the environment. You know it is expensive and doesn't even feel that great most of the time. If you ask 1000 people how to make smoking healthier and cheaper they will probably all tell you to quit, even the smokers. But until you are willing to quit, it doesn't matter.
You already know the answer here. You don't need us to tell you. If you want to keep beating yourself over the head with this addiction, do it. But accept and admit to yourself the reality of what is happening. This guy is a jerk and he probably always has been. The relationship is a dud and he is never going to stop upsetting you. The attention and hope and fear and fretting are what you are getting out of this relationship and when those stop being satisfying you will be able to walk away.
posted by windykites at 8:02 AM on May 8, 2018 [6 favorites]
Yeah, someone not wanting to leave a relationship until they've got another one lined up to jump to is IMO always red flag behavior. They either can't or won't take the time to be single, process, and learn from the fallout from the relationship, so they don't improve and just keep repeating mistakes with the next person. They may even convince themselves the issues are all the partner's responsibility to fix, and they may even find someone that they click with who is willing to overlook/enable their issues, but they are going to be a shitty partner until they start getting a clue and working on themselves.
posted by jazzbaby at 8:05 AM on May 8, 2018
posted by jazzbaby at 8:05 AM on May 8, 2018
it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order
This is like climbing down into a hole to try to reach the sky.
posted by The Deej at 8:14 AM on May 8, 2018 [19 favorites]
This is like climbing down into a hole to try to reach the sky.
posted by The Deej at 8:14 AM on May 8, 2018 [19 favorites]
This is so much NO you should get NO tattooed on your forehead so that every time you look in the mirror, you remember this is a big NO.
You're entirely too possessive of him and you haven't even been dating for a decade. You level of contact is like the same amount as running in to an old friend at the grocery store. He's keeping you just warm enough on the back burner as a 2nd option (he sees you as "other woman" material).
NO. breathe in. NO. breathe out. NO.
posted by WeekendJen at 8:19 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
You're entirely too possessive of him and you haven't even been dating for a decade. You level of contact is like the same amount as running in to an old friend at the grocery store. He's keeping you just warm enough on the back burner as a 2nd option (he sees you as "other woman" material).
NO. breathe in. NO. breathe out. NO.
posted by WeekendJen at 8:19 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
You want to get back together with him, for whatever reason. It seems unimportant to you that he does not want to get back together with you. You are furious with him for not being a good boyfriend to you when he is not and does not want to be.
Getting back together with a boyfriend from a decade ago is not a normal thing people do every day. You are acting like it is, which is as unsettling as this idea that he has to be your boyfriend again because you wish it. It's a little strange that you are so exasperated at his crappy behavior - which probably IS crappy in the sense that he won't say a firm NO just in case he can't find someone else but probably also he is confused by all this - as if you had a right to anything else.
If he's the only person you ever loved, the issue here might be you? This might be your wake-up call to do some personal growth work instead of trying to time-travel back to a relationship that was almost certainly destined to end right about the time it ended. I think you're imagining it would have lasted all this time, and can somehow hop back onto that time stream, but that's not how things work.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:56 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
Getting back together with a boyfriend from a decade ago is not a normal thing people do every day. You are acting like it is, which is as unsettling as this idea that he has to be your boyfriend again because you wish it. It's a little strange that you are so exasperated at his crappy behavior - which probably IS crappy in the sense that he won't say a firm NO just in case he can't find someone else but probably also he is confused by all this - as if you had a right to anything else.
If he's the only person you ever loved, the issue here might be you? This might be your wake-up call to do some personal growth work instead of trying to time-travel back to a relationship that was almost certainly destined to end right about the time it ended. I think you're imagining it would have lasted all this time, and can somehow hop back onto that time stream, but that's not how things work.
posted by Lyn Never at 8:56 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
It sounds like he is still not communicating in a mature and healthy way. His approach to thinking he has apologized too much in past relationships is illogical and doesn't really address the problem - it just trades the problem of (theoretically) apologizing too much for the definitely happening problem of apologizing too little.
Even if I only look at the recent behavior you've talked about here, it seems really clear that this guy isn't qualified for any kind of personal relationship. At all. Even if everything else is great, and I get the sense that it's very much not, these things that he isn't doing are basic relationship prerequisites. And the communication problem has been an ongoing issue for a long time.
Sure, theoretically he might work on himself and experience some significant personal growth and maybe in the future he will be able and willing to be a contributing member of a healthy, happy relationship.
But that's the future, not now. And a relationship needs to be good for everyone in it.
You deserve better than this. I think being single and healthy on your own is better than any unhealthy relationship, especially what you would get with him.
Love also requires work in addition to compatibility, chemistry, etc- this guy definitely isn't the only person you can love.
And you should love yourself too, and first. To be honest, I think letting go of him might be a good way for you to do that.
posted by Verba Volant at 10:13 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Even if I only look at the recent behavior you've talked about here, it seems really clear that this guy isn't qualified for any kind of personal relationship. At all. Even if everything else is great, and I get the sense that it's very much not, these things that he isn't doing are basic relationship prerequisites. And the communication problem has been an ongoing issue for a long time.
Sure, theoretically he might work on himself and experience some significant personal growth and maybe in the future he will be able and willing to be a contributing member of a healthy, happy relationship.
But that's the future, not now. And a relationship needs to be good for everyone in it.
You deserve better than this. I think being single and healthy on your own is better than any unhealthy relationship, especially what you would get with him.
Love also requires work in addition to compatibility, chemistry, etc- this guy definitely isn't the only person you can love.
And you should love yourself too, and first. To be honest, I think letting go of him might be a good way for you to do that.
posted by Verba Volant at 10:13 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
He only wanted to get back together with you two years ago if his current relationship wasn't going to work out. And he lied and told you they were already broken up so you'd be lined up in case he suddenly found himself single. But he didn't. He did not choose to be with you, he chose to trick you into thinking he wanted to be with you in case he had a vacancy for girlfriend available. When he didn't, he didn't even bother to tell you, made excuses up for it and thinks what he did was okay. What he did is not okay.
And now he's single and still not treating you well. He is making it very clear that any relationship will be on his terms. This really looks like someone who just wants a warm body in the role of girlfriend in their life, not someone who chooses to be a partner to a person because he cares about them and wants to make their life better. I don't think talking to him will get you what you need. You can explain yourself and how things should be and what a relationship should look like until you are blue in the face but he has shown that he doesn't think that way. And if he doesn't agree then his behavior isn't changing. I think if I were you I'd accept that the relationship with him is over and he can't be the person you need. And never ever contact him again.
posted by Polychrome at 10:23 AM on May 8, 2018
And now he's single and still not treating you well. He is making it very clear that any relationship will be on his terms. This really looks like someone who just wants a warm body in the role of girlfriend in their life, not someone who chooses to be a partner to a person because he cares about them and wants to make their life better. I don't think talking to him will get you what you need. You can explain yourself and how things should be and what a relationship should look like until you are blue in the face but he has shown that he doesn't think that way. And if he doesn't agree then his behavior isn't changing. I think if I were you I'd accept that the relationship with him is over and he can't be the person you need. And never ever contact him again.
posted by Polychrome at 10:23 AM on May 8, 2018
The ball was in his court to organize this, and he did not,
he said that if he had arranged to spend time with me as we'd planned, he would have broken up with her before seeing me.
He didn’t arrange to spend that time with you. That says volumes. It’s weird that he said that if he had, he would’ve broken up with Emily so he could date you. It’s almost like you and Emily are interchangeable – well if not Emily, then you. If not you, then Emily (which is what he did. Breaking up is a big change, so I understand why he just stayed with the status quo at the time, which was her).
these recent episodes are out of character
No, this is part of who he is. Not all of who he is, but it’s definitely part of him.
He is the only person I've ever loved and I don't want to give up here.
I always look at “but I don’t want to give up on us!” statements warily. Declaring "I'm not giving up!" is not some brave, noble, selfless thing. It's usually delusional (sorry to be harsh). I think when you get to the point of saying that, things are pretty desperate and bad and it’s a pretty big indication that you really need to let go, take a step back and look at this whole thing and your own self. I really hope you do that.
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
No, it’s not obvious. What’s obvious is that if you think you need couples counselling right after hypothetically getting back together, that it’s a big flashing neon sign to not get back together. You really want this that badly, don’t you? Why is that?
I didn't think I'd ever speak to him again.
This is where your chance is for a do-over. Don’t speak to him again after this, for your own sanity, and to really commit yourself to moving on. Block everywhere. If in two or more years down the line he somehow gets back in contact with you, ignore. Ignore, block, delete, everything.
posted by foxjacket at 10:33 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
he said that if he had arranged to spend time with me as we'd planned, he would have broken up with her before seeing me.
He didn’t arrange to spend that time with you. That says volumes. It’s weird that he said that if he had, he would’ve broken up with Emily so he could date you. It’s almost like you and Emily are interchangeable – well if not Emily, then you. If not you, then Emily (which is what he did. Breaking up is a big change, so I understand why he just stayed with the status quo at the time, which was her).
these recent episodes are out of character
No, this is part of who he is. Not all of who he is, but it’s definitely part of him.
He is the only person I've ever loved and I don't want to give up here.
I always look at “but I don’t want to give up on us!” statements warily. Declaring "I'm not giving up!" is not some brave, noble, selfless thing. It's usually delusional (sorry to be harsh). I think when you get to the point of saying that, things are pretty desperate and bad and it’s a pretty big indication that you really need to let go, take a step back and look at this whole thing and your own self. I really hope you do that.
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
No, it’s not obvious. What’s obvious is that if you think you need couples counselling right after hypothetically getting back together, that it’s a big flashing neon sign to not get back together. You really want this that badly, don’t you? Why is that?
I didn't think I'd ever speak to him again.
This is where your chance is for a do-over. Don’t speak to him again after this, for your own sanity, and to really commit yourself to moving on. Block everywhere. If in two or more years down the line he somehow gets back in contact with you, ignore. Ignore, block, delete, everything.
posted by foxjacket at 10:33 AM on May 8, 2018 [5 favorites]
At the beginning or a re-beginning, people tend to be on their best behavior. Your interactions with this man are not going to get better, and will almost certainly get worse.
posted by wryly at 11:05 AM on May 8, 2018
posted by wryly at 11:05 AM on May 8, 2018
He doesn’t love you. And he will not fall back in love with you. He will never treat you like gold again. Please accept this, cut off all contact, greave and move on.
Not only he doesn’t love you, he doesn’t consider you a person worthy of spearing her feelings. He only cares about his own (I don’t want to apologize; I felt defensive, yada, yada). It doesn’t cross his mind that you are a real person, just like him, with your own pain and emotions. A person who needs feeling important enough for him to apologize to for lying, important enough to reassure after his own actions caused you to feel insecure.
He doesn’t feel compassion for you, and no amount of couple’s counseling will change that.
He feels like the stakes are low (not afraid to lose you), and so he can treat you however feels good for him and only him. He might even be getting a power trip out of seeing you hurting because of him.
I’m so sorry, this is all very painful, but you will feel so much better after you let it all fully sink in and let go of any hope for the better from him, so you could truly move on. Cutting ALL contact off with him is the only way you’ll be able to do it.
posted by LakeDream at 11:33 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Not only he doesn’t love you, he doesn’t consider you a person worthy of spearing her feelings. He only cares about his own (I don’t want to apologize; I felt defensive, yada, yada). It doesn’t cross his mind that you are a real person, just like him, with your own pain and emotions. A person who needs feeling important enough for him to apologize to for lying, important enough to reassure after his own actions caused you to feel insecure.
He doesn’t feel compassion for you, and no amount of couple’s counseling will change that.
He feels like the stakes are low (not afraid to lose you), and so he can treat you however feels good for him and only him. He might even be getting a power trip out of seeing you hurting because of him.
I’m so sorry, this is all very painful, but you will feel so much better after you let it all fully sink in and let go of any hope for the better from him, so you could truly move on. Cutting ALL contact off with him is the only way you’ll be able to do it.
posted by LakeDream at 11:33 AM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
He doesn't love you. He doesn't even care about you.
Sure, he loved you ten years ago. But then things went bad, and you had a painful breakup and you hurt each other's feelings.
And somehow you've put your emotional life on pause and lived on in both loving him and feeling incredibly hurt by him.
And, as far as I can tell, and to be expected, he has not lived his life in pause. He moved on. He long ago got over loving you or caring about you and discarded any investment in what you meant to each other.
And here you are, acting like he can be your instant boyfriend. Instant commitment. Acting like the painful breakup, the hurt feelings and the intervening 10 years didn't happen and you can pick up back when you were happy. And he's being a shit about that, true, but you are living in a fantasy. And you're clutching at him like Lenny with the puppy.
He doesn't love you. You aren't dating. You don't even know him.
posted by Squeak Attack at 12:03 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sure, he loved you ten years ago. But then things went bad, and you had a painful breakup and you hurt each other's feelings.
And somehow you've put your emotional life on pause and lived on in both loving him and feeling incredibly hurt by him.
And, as far as I can tell, and to be expected, he has not lived his life in pause. He moved on. He long ago got over loving you or caring about you and discarded any investment in what you meant to each other.
And here you are, acting like he can be your instant boyfriend. Instant commitment. Acting like the painful breakup, the hurt feelings and the intervening 10 years didn't happen and you can pick up back when you were happy. And he's being a shit about that, true, but you are living in a fantasy. And you're clutching at him like Lenny with the puppy.
He doesn't love you. You aren't dating. You don't even know him.
posted by Squeak Attack at 12:03 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Mod note: Followup from the OP:
Thanks so much for all the responses. I was definitely expecting some negativity towards him but wasn't expecting such a pile-on. Food for thought.posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 12:50 PM on May 8, 2018 [4 favorites]
I wanted to clear something up: when we spent a few days together last week, that was at his suggestion for the express purpose of seeing if there is still something there between us / seeing if it would make sense to date again. Some responders (rightfully) questioned why I thought he might be interested in dating me again - this is a big detail I accidentally left out. Sorry about that.
Also, I've not put my life on hold for a decade. I have dated other people. Sadly, I haven't felt anything for them approaching what I feel for this guy, which is the only reason I've tolerated bad treatment from him. But you are all correct, bad treatment is still bad treatment and I would rather be alone than be treated this way. I truly do not think he's a bad guy - his social awkwardness sometimes causes him to think his ways of seeing situations or approaching things are "normal" when they're actually not. But lying, lack of apologizing, not watching out for my feelings - whether we're dating or not! - are still not ok.
This situation hurts a lot but that's part of life, I guess.
He treated me like gold while we were dating. I feel like these recent episodes are out of character
People CAN change.
They don't always change for the better.
I wonder how much past resentment is influencing this
It seems like you feel that if he simply has resentment towards you, rather than having poor character, you'd be happy to start dating him.
Why are you even considering this?
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
Individual counseling is in order, for you, so you can look at why you think it's a good idea to date someone who resents you.
I have dated other people. Sadly, I haven't felt anything for them approaching what I feel for this guy, which is the only reason I've tolerated bad treatment from him.
That doesn't make him a good choice.
Also, being single isn't the same as putting your life on hold. Be single and you could: travel, do art, spend time with friends, work long days and get ahead in your career, read great literature, raise a child, volunteer to help with a cause you believe in, mentor someone, learn to play an instrument, all sorts of things.
And spending your time dating someone who isn't going to treat you well might just be putting your life on hold -- you have so many other things you can do with your time and your life that will be far more rewarding than dating someone who doesn't treat you well.
Believe me, dating someone who doesn't treat you well does NOT move your life forward. BELIEVE ME.
posted by yohko at 2:27 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
People CAN change.
They don't always change for the better.
I wonder how much past resentment is influencing this
It seems like you feel that if he simply has resentment towards you, rather than having poor character, you'd be happy to start dating him.
Why are you even considering this?
(And yes, I think it's fairly obvious that if we do get back together, couples counseling is in order.)
Individual counseling is in order, for you, so you can look at why you think it's a good idea to date someone who resents you.
I have dated other people. Sadly, I haven't felt anything for them approaching what I feel for this guy, which is the only reason I've tolerated bad treatment from him.
That doesn't make him a good choice.
Also, being single isn't the same as putting your life on hold. Be single and you could: travel, do art, spend time with friends, work long days and get ahead in your career, read great literature, raise a child, volunteer to help with a cause you believe in, mentor someone, learn to play an instrument, all sorts of things.
And spending your time dating someone who isn't going to treat you well might just be putting your life on hold -- you have so many other things you can do with your time and your life that will be far more rewarding than dating someone who doesn't treat you well.
Believe me, dating someone who doesn't treat you well does NOT move your life forward. BELIEVE ME.
posted by yohko at 2:27 PM on May 8, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sadly, I haven't felt anything for them approaching what I feel for this guy, which is the only reason I've tolerated bad treatment from him.
I'm 46. I've had three major, deeply in love relationships in my life, including the very happy marriage I'm in. And I will be honest with you: I have never felt what I felt for the first of those three partners.
Because that was obsessive insanity. It was real and it was intense and it was also abusive and very, very bad news.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:50 PM on May 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
I'm 46. I've had three major, deeply in love relationships in my life, including the very happy marriage I'm in. And I will be honest with you: I have never felt what I felt for the first of those three partners.
Because that was obsessive insanity. It was real and it was intense and it was also abusive and very, very bad news.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:50 PM on May 8, 2018 [12 favorites]
I haven't felt anything for them approaching what I feel for this guy
You'll never be 22 again. Which is both a little bit of a bummer and an enormous blessing.
posted by French Fry at 10:02 AM on May 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
You'll never be 22 again. Which is both a little bit of a bummer and an enormous blessing.
posted by French Fry at 10:02 AM on May 9, 2018 [4 favorites]
What are the things causing the resentments? Maybe dealing with those is the first thing to do. His heart maybe in it but he may be scared to get back in with you if the breakup was bad as you say.
posted by Ironmouth at 3:29 PM on May 9, 2018
posted by Ironmouth at 3:29 PM on May 9, 2018
I'm going to try a different take on the situation you've described, from an attachment-based perspective.
It sounds like when you two first connected, the attachment was authentic and real. Neither of you had the maturity or skills to know how to be prepared for it, so 10 years ago the breakup was "unavoidable" because you two did not do what you needed to do in order to make it sustainable.
You both went your separate ways. You both tried to move on. Two years ago, while he was trying to move on (with Emily), he realized he still had lingering feelings of attachment for you, so he reached out to test the waters and be certain of his feelings before digging himself deeper with Emily. He probably didn't mean to be hurtful with you; he was probably feeling desperate to understand himself and his own psyche better. He made a logical choice, decided his attachment to you belonged in the past, and attempted to commit to Emily. When you sent the angry email, he did genuinely feel stupid for opening up a can of worms when he logically knew better.
He and Emily did not last, and now it's 2018, and he's aware that he's 10 years older, but just as stupid about relationships as he was when you two originally broke up 10 years ago. He genuinely wants to be a good guy, but doesn't get much helpful advice about what it's like to be this old and this crappy at relationships, sex and love as a mid-30s male. Even worse, after 10 years of bumbling through relationships, digging his ego deeper and deeper, he does in fact harbor huge resentment towards you, the original post-pubertal attachment figure to whom he *knew* he was originally satisfied with, but flat-out lacked the emotional labor and self-care skills to sustain. And now, to his own chagrin, he's watching himself start to dance the same self-destructive dance again, knowing he's probably going to hurt you again this time, but not knowing what else to do to figure this out.
And obviously the sense of connection/attachment/bonding was authentic, because it sounds like it's still as mutually real for you as it is for him. You also don't want to get hurt or be hurtful either, this time around, however, your attachment to him hasn't effectively moved on either. So what do you do now?
My advice? If you do decide to pursue this any further, go in ready to play HARD BALL. Do NOT flat-out accept crappy treatment from him, and make it clear that is what you are doing when you are doing so. Be prepared to set limits on his poor coping behaviors when he slips and be prepared to follow through. Trust that your attachment to each other is authentic and real, and be prepared to acknowledge when he is doing his best, given his attachment-related challenges (the backstory of which you are probably already aware of). Do use reflective listening as much as possible to help him hear what his behavior is actually saying to you.
It's up to you if you want to invest further in this. Maybe set a timeline for how much you want to go further, using this strategy, and what kind of results you need to see in order to make it worth continuing. IMO he sounds very wounded when it comes to his instincts as a man in navigating love, sex and relationships (consider the virgin/whore teaching most young men receive, and how much they are traditionally taught NOT to ever expect to find a woman they can be 100% holistically happy with). I'll give credit that he has probably tortured himself over the thought of you for some time, wondering how to go back and salvage what he had with you, without doing just as much to destroy it. The resentment he's feeling probably has more to do with the power your mutual attachment has had over him for the past 10 years of this crucially formative adult phase of life, than it has to do with you personally.
Recommended readings: A General Theory of Love and (recently recommended here on the green, which I just ordered for myself) Can Love Last? Good luck!
posted by human ecologist at 3:45 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
It sounds like when you two first connected, the attachment was authentic and real. Neither of you had the maturity or skills to know how to be prepared for it, so 10 years ago the breakup was "unavoidable" because you two did not do what you needed to do in order to make it sustainable.
You both went your separate ways. You both tried to move on. Two years ago, while he was trying to move on (with Emily), he realized he still had lingering feelings of attachment for you, so he reached out to test the waters and be certain of his feelings before digging himself deeper with Emily. He probably didn't mean to be hurtful with you; he was probably feeling desperate to understand himself and his own psyche better. He made a logical choice, decided his attachment to you belonged in the past, and attempted to commit to Emily. When you sent the angry email, he did genuinely feel stupid for opening up a can of worms when he logically knew better.
He and Emily did not last, and now it's 2018, and he's aware that he's 10 years older, but just as stupid about relationships as he was when you two originally broke up 10 years ago. He genuinely wants to be a good guy, but doesn't get much helpful advice about what it's like to be this old and this crappy at relationships, sex and love as a mid-30s male. Even worse, after 10 years of bumbling through relationships, digging his ego deeper and deeper, he does in fact harbor huge resentment towards you, the original post-pubertal attachment figure to whom he *knew* he was originally satisfied with, but flat-out lacked the emotional labor and self-care skills to sustain. And now, to his own chagrin, he's watching himself start to dance the same self-destructive dance again, knowing he's probably going to hurt you again this time, but not knowing what else to do to figure this out.
And obviously the sense of connection/attachment/bonding was authentic, because it sounds like it's still as mutually real for you as it is for him. You also don't want to get hurt or be hurtful either, this time around, however, your attachment to him hasn't effectively moved on either. So what do you do now?
My advice? If you do decide to pursue this any further, go in ready to play HARD BALL. Do NOT flat-out accept crappy treatment from him, and make it clear that is what you are doing when you are doing so. Be prepared to set limits on his poor coping behaviors when he slips and be prepared to follow through. Trust that your attachment to each other is authentic and real, and be prepared to acknowledge when he is doing his best, given his attachment-related challenges (the backstory of which you are probably already aware of). Do use reflective listening as much as possible to help him hear what his behavior is actually saying to you.
It's up to you if you want to invest further in this. Maybe set a timeline for how much you want to go further, using this strategy, and what kind of results you need to see in order to make it worth continuing. IMO he sounds very wounded when it comes to his instincts as a man in navigating love, sex and relationships (consider the virgin/whore teaching most young men receive, and how much they are traditionally taught NOT to ever expect to find a woman they can be 100% holistically happy with). I'll give credit that he has probably tortured himself over the thought of you for some time, wondering how to go back and salvage what he had with you, without doing just as much to destroy it. The resentment he's feeling probably has more to do with the power your mutual attachment has had over him for the past 10 years of this crucially formative adult phase of life, than it has to do with you personally.
Recommended readings: A General Theory of Love and (recently recommended here on the green, which I just ordered for myself) Can Love Last? Good luck!
posted by human ecologist at 3:45 PM on May 9, 2018 [1 favorite]
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He likes to be chased - he doesn't like to be caught, it seems. I would not put in any more work on this one.
posted by Martha My Dear Prudence at 11:24 PM on May 7, 2018 [59 favorites]