Xubuntu on an iMac G3
June 5, 2008 1:16 PM Subscribe
Is it worth it to load xubuntu on a tray loading iMac G3, 333MHz, 64MB RAM, 6GB HD?
I recently acquired a tray loading iMac G3, 333MHz, 64MB RAM, 6GB HD for free. It has OS 8.6 loaded on it (blast from the past). I was thinking of installing xubuntu 6.06 on it. From what I've read on the web this should work but it is recommended to upgrade to 256MB of RAM. Has anybody done this? Is it worth it? The RAM install process seems kinda tough. How about buying extra video memory?
If I did upgrade the RAM could I upgrade to a more recent version of xubuntu?
I recently acquired a tray loading iMac G3, 333MHz, 64MB RAM, 6GB HD for free. It has OS 8.6 loaded on it (blast from the past). I was thinking of installing xubuntu 6.06 on it. From what I've read on the web this should work but it is recommended to upgrade to 256MB of RAM. Has anybody done this? Is it worth it? The RAM install process seems kinda tough. How about buying extra video memory?
If I did upgrade the RAM could I upgrade to a more recent version of xubuntu?
Sounds awful to me. I have a AMD 2GHz system, 512 MB RAM, 4GB HD with Ubuntu from one version behind (7, I think) - the computer crawls with more than one application open (usually just Opera and Firefox). Watching a Youtube video takes up 90%+ of the CPU time. I previously had xubuntu (also kubuntu) installed, it wasn't significantly faster and it had a lot less polish.
I wouldn't want to spend money and in the end, have a system that's barely adequate.
posted by meowzilla at 2:22 PM on June 5, 2008
I wouldn't want to spend money and in the end, have a system that's barely adequate.
posted by meowzilla at 2:22 PM on June 5, 2008
At the risk of stating the obvious, whether it's worth it or not depends on what you're hoping to accomplish.
Might as well also say that my experiences with running Ubuntu on legacy hardware are significantly different than meowzilla's.
posted by box at 2:29 PM on June 5, 2008
Might as well also say that my experiences with running Ubuntu on legacy hardware are significantly different than meowzilla's.
posted by box at 2:29 PM on June 5, 2008
Do you really need to? You're going to have to order PC133 SODIMMs for it which are moderately expensive, it's going to run slow and it's not terribly power efficient. Sure if it's a little project you want to do or you want something to play with, but otherwise, no. Recycle the computer.
posted by cgomez at 2:48 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by cgomez at 2:48 PM on June 5, 2008
There are other light-weight distros that I'd try (Puppy, DSL, antiX, arch in that order); but you're not going to get miracles out of it. FWIW, the new firefox is less of a memory hog than the old firefox, and many distros will suggest a lighter browser with that little memory. That comes with obvious tradeoffs on polish.
Do you want something to read email, browse (maybe sans streaming video), play low-intensity media, and compose documents? That can be done. It's not going to cost you anything but a little time and CD-Rs to download and try some distros.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 3:05 PM on June 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
Do you want something to read email, browse (maybe sans streaming video), play low-intensity media, and compose documents? That can be done. It's not going to cost you anything but a little time and CD-Rs to download and try some distros.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 3:05 PM on June 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
First, upgrade the RAM. It is cheap and will make the system a lot more usable.
6.06 would probably work fine, and yes, you could upgrade from it, but I'd recommend just going straight to the current release (8.04 "hardy"). There isn't an official Xubuntu-8.04-powerpc iso afaik, since PowerPC is not "officially" supported anymore (don't worry about that; it still works fine and gets updates from the canonical servers). So, to get the latest Ubuntu Xfce setup, do an install using ubuntu-8.04-server-powerpc.iso and then type sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop in the shell and you'll soon have an Xubuntu desktop.
One caveat is that Adobe Flash does not support PowerPC Linux, and many flash sites will not work with the open-source flash plugins (YouTube videos can be watched in mplayer). Aside from that, a 333MHz G3 should still make a usable (albeit slow) desktop system. You really want more than 64MB of RAM, though, especially for Firefox :/
posted by finite at 3:15 PM on June 5, 2008
6.06 would probably work fine, and yes, you could upgrade from it, but I'd recommend just going straight to the current release (8.04 "hardy"). There isn't an official Xubuntu-8.04-powerpc iso afaik, since PowerPC is not "officially" supported anymore (don't worry about that; it still works fine and gets updates from the canonical servers). So, to get the latest Ubuntu Xfce setup, do an install using ubuntu-8.04-server-powerpc.iso and then type sudo apt-get install xubuntu-desktop in the shell and you'll soon have an Xubuntu desktop.
One caveat is that Adobe Flash does not support PowerPC Linux, and many flash sites will not work with the open-source flash plugins (YouTube videos can be watched in mplayer). Aside from that, a 333MHz G3 should still make a usable (albeit slow) desktop system. You really want more than 64MB of RAM, though, especially for Firefox :/
posted by finite at 3:15 PM on June 5, 2008
Response by poster: I should have mentioned that this computer would basically be for my wife to email (IMAP) and browse the internet. She can live without flash.
posted by crios at 3:28 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by crios at 3:28 PM on June 5, 2008
I played around with it on my 233 mhz iMac Rev B. I ran it from the CD, and it actually ran pretty smoothly, had some fun games included, and was interesting to mess around with. Mine only had 32 megs of RAM.
But the real question is: do you just want to play around, or do you want to try and use it as a working machine to actually get stuff done? Only you can decide that, I guess, but it's free to try it out, so why not?
One note: on my version, I had to tweak the monitor setting in the Ubuntu file for the display to work. I only found the fix through much Googling. I'm sorry I don't know the exact fix or have a link to give you, but if it seems to boot up then go blank, some Googling will help you as well.
But ya, I'd try it out with the iMac as-is before putting time and money into memory. Besides, iMacs are so funky and cool looking that it might be fun to just keep on a desk or counter and let your guests play around with Ubuntu on an iMac. You can just give little self-satisfied sniffs as you explain how you rescued the computer from death.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 3:29 PM on June 5, 2008
But the real question is: do you just want to play around, or do you want to try and use it as a working machine to actually get stuff done? Only you can decide that, I guess, but it's free to try it out, so why not?
One note: on my version, I had to tweak the monitor setting in the Ubuntu file for the display to work. I only found the fix through much Googling. I'm sorry I don't know the exact fix or have a link to give you, but if it seems to boot up then go blank, some Googling will help you as well.
But ya, I'd try it out with the iMac as-is before putting time and money into memory. Besides, iMacs are so funky and cool looking that it might be fun to just keep on a desk or counter and let your guests play around with Ubuntu on an iMac. You can just give little self-satisfied sniffs as you explain how you rescued the computer from death.
posted by Fuzzy Skinner at 3:29 PM on June 5, 2008
Actually, I just checked and it looks like memory for that system is not so cheap after all. I'm seeing 256MB PC133 SODIMMs from $20 to $50, and on eBay there are actually a number of working 333MHz iMacs (some already upgraded to 256MB) in the under-$40 price range.
posted by finite at 3:34 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by finite at 3:34 PM on June 5, 2008
Response by poster: What about video RAM? Would it be beneficial to get some more or would it not really make much of a difference?
posted by crios at 4:00 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by crios at 4:00 PM on June 5, 2008
This scenario was my exact introduction to Linux (except with 128MB). It was a fun project but not something you would want as your main computer when you could be using OS9 (which is it's own kind of fun) instead. The real deal breaker for me was the lack of Flash for PPC. I'm not a Flash lover, but no YouTube etc was a bummer...
posted by quarterframer at 4:47 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by quarterframer at 4:47 PM on June 5, 2008
I set up Feisty on a slot-loading jellybean G3 iMac for my Mum, after putting another 512MB RAM in it. Performance is OK (using Gnome, didn't bother with XFCE); comparable to a 733MHz x86. When I updated it to Gutsy, assorted things broke, and I had to do a fair bit of fartarsing about to revert selected libraries to the Feisty versions to make it go again. Those bugs have allegedly been fixed in Hardy. I haven't tried it on her machine, so I don't know.
Physically it's a nice machine to use, except for the weird Apple mis-labelled keyboard. We put a Microsoft two button wheelmouse on it - don't leave that out.
The slot-loading model has a little panel on the bottom for RAM upgrades, meaning you don't have to get inside completely just to add RAM. If I recall correctly, the tray-loading model doesn't have this, and you'll have to get inside the casing. This is a pain in the arse. I have never seen a machine whose clock battery is harder to replace.
My rationale for giving Mum an Ubuntu environment was that (a) she was unable to use OS 8.x any more, since her printer had died and we couldn't find a new printer that came with OS 8.x drivers and (b) she won't have to re-learn everything when this machine eventually falls over, since Ubuntu will work the same on whatever machine she ends up with.
I haven't had a lot of experience with Xubuntu. What I've seen of it suggests that though the desktop environment itself is reasonably responsive on a RAM-limited machine, the system becomes fairly frustrating to use as soon as you launch an app of any size. Firefox will bog it right down, and OpenOffice is pretty much out of the question.
I hate to be the one advocating scrapping working electronics, but given the limited lifetime to be expected from the hard drive and the need to fit more expensive, obsolete RAM, you may well be better off putting that money toward the cost of a low-end generic x86 box instead, and running Ubuntu on that.
posted by flabdablet at 4:52 PM on June 5, 2008
Physically it's a nice machine to use, except for the weird Apple mis-labelled keyboard. We put a Microsoft two button wheelmouse on it - don't leave that out.
The slot-loading model has a little panel on the bottom for RAM upgrades, meaning you don't have to get inside completely just to add RAM. If I recall correctly, the tray-loading model doesn't have this, and you'll have to get inside the casing. This is a pain in the arse. I have never seen a machine whose clock battery is harder to replace.
My rationale for giving Mum an Ubuntu environment was that (a) she was unable to use OS 8.x any more, since her printer had died and we couldn't find a new printer that came with OS 8.x drivers and (b) she won't have to re-learn everything when this machine eventually falls over, since Ubuntu will work the same on whatever machine she ends up with.
I haven't had a lot of experience with Xubuntu. What I've seen of it suggests that though the desktop environment itself is reasonably responsive on a RAM-limited machine, the system becomes fairly frustrating to use as soon as you launch an app of any size. Firefox will bog it right down, and OpenOffice is pretty much out of the question.
I hate to be the one advocating scrapping working electronics, but given the limited lifetime to be expected from the hard drive and the need to fit more expensive, obsolete RAM, you may well be better off putting that money toward the cost of a low-end generic x86 box instead, and running Ubuntu on that.
posted by flabdablet at 4:52 PM on June 5, 2008
Response by poster: We have an G4 iBook that is our main computer. I'm going to be starting a new job that involves a 3 hour round trip train ride, so I want to take the laptop with me so that I can work on the train. The iMac will be the stay at home machine so that my wife can continue to communicate with several organizations that she works with. We don't want the iMac to be our main computer, we just need it to basic network functions. I might want to use it later as a music server but for now just network.
posted by crios at 4:52 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by crios at 4:52 PM on June 5, 2008
Buy enough used RAM to have at least 256MB and give it a go. I recently picked up one hundred PC-100 and PC-133 128mb sticks for $130 on eBay. You may be better off installing Debian or some other distribution that still officially supports the PowerPC architecture.
posted by PueExMachina at 5:45 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by PueExMachina at 5:45 PM on June 5, 2008
Response by poster: BTW "robot made out of meat" I was really interested in Puppy Linux but I can't seem to find anything for a PowerPC machine. None of the Linux distributions you mentioned seem to have PowerPC versions.
posted by crios at 5:59 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by crios at 5:59 PM on June 5, 2008
Yellow Dog Linux is a fairly well established PPC-only distro. Most of the tiddlers are, as you've found out, x86-only unless you feel like building them yourself.
If you're going to put Linux on this box, I would strongly recommend going the RAM upgrade + Ubuntu route. Though the PowerPC architecture is no longer commercially supported by Canonical, community support is still strong (about as strong as the official support for Debian which is, after all, community support). Picking a solid distro that works the same on PPC and x86 will minimize the number of irritating surprises in store for you if you later decide to move the resulting computing environment to a newer computer.
Ubuntu is buggier than Debian, because its fast update cycle puts it closer to the bleeding edge, but the current release (Hardy Heron) is a Long Term Support release, and I would expect that it should be a match for the current Debian stability-wise within six months.
Ubuntu and Debian both use the Debian packaging system, which is a Good Thing.
posted by flabdablet at 6:16 PM on June 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you're going to put Linux on this box, I would strongly recommend going the RAM upgrade + Ubuntu route. Though the PowerPC architecture is no longer commercially supported by Canonical, community support is still strong (about as strong as the official support for Debian which is, after all, community support). Picking a solid distro that works the same on PPC and x86 will minimize the number of irritating surprises in store for you if you later decide to move the resulting computing environment to a newer computer.
Ubuntu is buggier than Debian, because its fast update cycle puts it closer to the bleeding edge, but the current release (Hardy Heron) is a Long Term Support release, and I would expect that it should be a match for the current Debian stability-wise within six months.
Ubuntu and Debian both use the Debian packaging system, which is a Good Thing.
posted by flabdablet at 6:16 PM on June 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
I like the Yellow Dog Linux suggestion. Be sure to get the 5th edition, which is the latest that they support on the original iMac. Don't forget to install SheepShaver to run OS 9 in a virtual machine.
posted by Monochrome at 7:24 PM on June 5, 2008
posted by Monochrome at 7:24 PM on June 5, 2008
Wow, sorry, you're right, those are i386 only.
Looking around, people seem to suggest the debian net install and building up, or NetBSD/FreeBSD. I see mixed reports of success; probably worth a shot. I'm surprised that puppy doesn't have a ppc port.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 8:13 AM on June 6, 2008
Looking around, people seem to suggest the debian net install and building up, or NetBSD/FreeBSD. I see mixed reports of success; probably worth a shot. I'm surprised that puppy doesn't have a ppc port.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 8:13 AM on June 6, 2008
Response by poster: Well I threw caution to the wind and burned an Ubuntu 6.06.1 alternate install CD and installed it. Everything worked fine.
The machine is up and running and it actually is pretty peppy. I haven't tried putting it on the network yet but from just browsing around the system settings it doesn't look like I'm going to be having any problems (I hope). I was a little nervous about the monitor because I read that there were some settings that needed to be altered to get the installer to work but I think that was only for the GUI installer.
I've noticed a few hiccups here and there but other wise everything seems great. I'm going to try using the system as is and unless it is really dragging I think I might go without the RAM upgrade.
Thanks all.
posted by crios at 8:20 AM on June 6, 2008
The machine is up and running and it actually is pretty peppy. I haven't tried putting it on the network yet but from just browsing around the system settings it doesn't look like I'm going to be having any problems (I hope). I was a little nervous about the monitor because I read that there were some settings that needed to be altered to get the installer to work but I think that was only for the GUI installer.
I've noticed a few hiccups here and there but other wise everything seems great. I'm going to try using the system as is and unless it is really dragging I think I might go without the RAM upgrade.
Thanks all.
posted by crios at 8:20 AM on June 6, 2008
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