Now what?
May 23, 2008 6:31 PM Subscribe
Should-we-break-up-filter.
My romantic partner and I have been together for nearly six years. We have long considered ourselves to be pretty much perfect for each other. We share a sense of humor, we like the same books, we have great, stimulating intellectual conversations. For the first few years of our relationship we were the disgusting always-together couple. We joked that we accumulated more time spent together in 3 years than most couples do in 10.
We started dating during college, during which time we both gradually lost all contact with our friends from high school. Neither of us made many lasting friends during college. I made one good friend, though, and got in tight with his friend group. She likes them, and they like her, but the group has always been a little more my friends than hers, leaving her without a strong set of her own friends that she could see regularly. She did repeatedly make different friends, but they all tended to flake out sooner or later.
Last summer she met a friend through work, met his friends, and over the course of a few months developed a nice, strong friend group of her own. Over the past year she has spent increasingly greater amounts of time with that friend group. Since my friends were busy getting regular jobs, while I still had a very variable schedule, I ended up not getting to see my friends much, and also not getting to see her much, because she was out with her new people. At the height of this, she was out with her friends four nights a week every week, and I had night classes two of the nights she wasn't out. Her days off and my days off didn't coincide, so we only had one night per week actually spent with each other, besides a few hours here and there. During those "unscheduled" times together, she wouldn't really be on. She'd just want to watch tv and chat with her friends online.
I asked to be more involved in her life, both when she's with her friends and when she's not. She obliged me, but only to a very limited extent. Even when her friends were doing things that I enjoy doing with them (and that, as far as I can tell, they like having me along for) I still was invited along less than half the time. She still was out without me 3 or 4 nights per week. The times that she did schedule to be in with me, neither of us would have any fun. She'd sit on the couch, watch tv and chat. I'd sit in the bedroom and get drunk.
During the past few months she has also been undergoing what she has referred to as "a crisis of responsibility." She had to work much more than I did during college, and was just burned out from working hard for several years on end. She decided she needed a working vacation. She reduced her course load at her graduate program, and then withdrew altogether. She quit her (low supervisory position) job to take a lower-paying job with fewer responsibilities at a store where all her friends hang out. As has been mentioned, she spent a ton of time hanging out with friends. She'd been working harder and more than me for quite some time, and so while I was a little hesitant at some of these decisions, I respected them. She wanted to take a break from life for six months or a year, work someplace fun, reduce her stress level, and be happy. We're at a rare time in our lives where she can actually do that, so I thought ok, this is her chance to get it out of her system.
About 3 months ago, she told me that she'd been having romantic feelings toward one of her friends. That many nights when she said she was out with the whole gang, it was really just him. Nothing had happened between them, but she still felt guilty. Well, this wasn't that big an issue. We had played around with other people in the bedroom in the past, and had also experimented with the poly thing. She had tried having a girlfriend in the past, but it hadn't worked. I told her to go ahead and date this guy on the side, but I laid some ground rules. I told her I wanted to know when anything in their relationship progressed beyond casual dating and makeouts on the couch. I told her that there was one particular relationship dynamic that she was not allowed to enter into with him. She agreed, life went on. She continued with the relaxin' life style. Our relationship did not improve. Occasionally I got specific updates on what their relationship was like. None of it particularly concerned me. The entire time I felt a little bit jealous, but nothing overwhelming, and I was still trying to let her have space, let her have her own stuff, and above all do what made her happy.
Last night I was reading an online journal of hers and it finally clicked with me that I was being played. She and her boyfriend had entered into the dynamic which I had specifically nixed, and she had not told me about it, despite the fact that this dynamic had been going on for a month or two, and we had talked about their relationship a few times during that period.
I talked to her about it this morning. She admitted that it was occurring, that she knew it was not supposed to be. She did not immediately say she would stop, which stung a bit. We talked for awhile and what came out was: 1) going with the flow, doing the stuff she wanted with him, and not telling me had been easier and more fun than either not doing it or else asking me again if she could. 2) she's really been all about what's easy and fun lately. 3) She has felt like I haven't been pursuing her, I haven't been interested/wanted her. 4) She knows I'm the right person for her, long term, but right now there's just nothing there. What would be easy and fun right now would be to keep doing what she's doing (dating him and having effectively no relationship with me) or to break up with me for a few months until she's done with her vacation and ready to come back. Eventually she said that what she thought would be best would be to break it off with him and for both of us to re-invest ourselves in our relationship, even if that wasn't the fun and easy thing to do.
Further complicating factors:
When she dropped out of school, I was also feeling the burnout, and had lined up a sweet job interview. We decided that if I got the job, I would put my graduate education on hold, too, we would both work for awhile, and we would get married (we had already been engaged for some time, but the wedding date had been "when we're done with school.") If I didn't get the job, I would find another and still do the same. Well, I didn't get the job, and I couldn't find another good one. I decided that continuing my degree, at least until something came up, was the best decision. Meanwhile, she had dropped out, and suddenly felt like we had agreed to jump off a cliff together, only when she jumped I didn't. After explaining my reasoning, she agreed it was sound. We decided to go ahead and get married anyway. In hindsight, I think maybe the decision was made as a way of shoring up the relationship and convincing each other that we were both still serious. Obviously, this is not a good reason to get married. By the time the latest shit hit the proverbial fan, we had already told several friends and family members of our wedding plans, and invested some money. Not much, but we're poor, so abandoning it would hurt.
Now we're left with a few possible choices. Do we re-invest ourselves in this relationship, make it work, and get married as planned?
Do we do as above, but cancel the wedding plans until things have become more stable?
Do we have her go take off and sow her wild oats for a couple months, then come back for fast-track rehabilitation and marriage?
Do we send her off for a couple months while canceling the marriage?
Or do we break up more or less for realsies, in which case I go be single for a year and then see whether I want her back in my life with that perspective?
Please send serious questions, private advice, requests for continued correspondence, whatever, to breakupfilter at gmail dot com
My romantic partner and I have been together for nearly six years. We have long considered ourselves to be pretty much perfect for each other. We share a sense of humor, we like the same books, we have great, stimulating intellectual conversations. For the first few years of our relationship we were the disgusting always-together couple. We joked that we accumulated more time spent together in 3 years than most couples do in 10.
We started dating during college, during which time we both gradually lost all contact with our friends from high school. Neither of us made many lasting friends during college. I made one good friend, though, and got in tight with his friend group. She likes them, and they like her, but the group has always been a little more my friends than hers, leaving her without a strong set of her own friends that she could see regularly. She did repeatedly make different friends, but they all tended to flake out sooner or later.
Last summer she met a friend through work, met his friends, and over the course of a few months developed a nice, strong friend group of her own. Over the past year she has spent increasingly greater amounts of time with that friend group. Since my friends were busy getting regular jobs, while I still had a very variable schedule, I ended up not getting to see my friends much, and also not getting to see her much, because she was out with her new people. At the height of this, she was out with her friends four nights a week every week, and I had night classes two of the nights she wasn't out. Her days off and my days off didn't coincide, so we only had one night per week actually spent with each other, besides a few hours here and there. During those "unscheduled" times together, she wouldn't really be on. She'd just want to watch tv and chat with her friends online.
I asked to be more involved in her life, both when she's with her friends and when she's not. She obliged me, but only to a very limited extent. Even when her friends were doing things that I enjoy doing with them (and that, as far as I can tell, they like having me along for) I still was invited along less than half the time. She still was out without me 3 or 4 nights per week. The times that she did schedule to be in with me, neither of us would have any fun. She'd sit on the couch, watch tv and chat. I'd sit in the bedroom and get drunk.
During the past few months she has also been undergoing what she has referred to as "a crisis of responsibility." She had to work much more than I did during college, and was just burned out from working hard for several years on end. She decided she needed a working vacation. She reduced her course load at her graduate program, and then withdrew altogether. She quit her (low supervisory position) job to take a lower-paying job with fewer responsibilities at a store where all her friends hang out. As has been mentioned, she spent a ton of time hanging out with friends. She'd been working harder and more than me for quite some time, and so while I was a little hesitant at some of these decisions, I respected them. She wanted to take a break from life for six months or a year, work someplace fun, reduce her stress level, and be happy. We're at a rare time in our lives where she can actually do that, so I thought ok, this is her chance to get it out of her system.
About 3 months ago, she told me that she'd been having romantic feelings toward one of her friends. That many nights when she said she was out with the whole gang, it was really just him. Nothing had happened between them, but she still felt guilty. Well, this wasn't that big an issue. We had played around with other people in the bedroom in the past, and had also experimented with the poly thing. She had tried having a girlfriend in the past, but it hadn't worked. I told her to go ahead and date this guy on the side, but I laid some ground rules. I told her I wanted to know when anything in their relationship progressed beyond casual dating and makeouts on the couch. I told her that there was one particular relationship dynamic that she was not allowed to enter into with him. She agreed, life went on. She continued with the relaxin' life style. Our relationship did not improve. Occasionally I got specific updates on what their relationship was like. None of it particularly concerned me. The entire time I felt a little bit jealous, but nothing overwhelming, and I was still trying to let her have space, let her have her own stuff, and above all do what made her happy.
Last night I was reading an online journal of hers and it finally clicked with me that I was being played. She and her boyfriend had entered into the dynamic which I had specifically nixed, and she had not told me about it, despite the fact that this dynamic had been going on for a month or two, and we had talked about their relationship a few times during that period.
I talked to her about it this morning. She admitted that it was occurring, that she knew it was not supposed to be. She did not immediately say she would stop, which stung a bit. We talked for awhile and what came out was: 1) going with the flow, doing the stuff she wanted with him, and not telling me had been easier and more fun than either not doing it or else asking me again if she could. 2) she's really been all about what's easy and fun lately. 3) She has felt like I haven't been pursuing her, I haven't been interested/wanted her. 4) She knows I'm the right person for her, long term, but right now there's just nothing there. What would be easy and fun right now would be to keep doing what she's doing (dating him and having effectively no relationship with me) or to break up with me for a few months until she's done with her vacation and ready to come back. Eventually she said that what she thought would be best would be to break it off with him and for both of us to re-invest ourselves in our relationship, even if that wasn't the fun and easy thing to do.
Further complicating factors:
When she dropped out of school, I was also feeling the burnout, and had lined up a sweet job interview. We decided that if I got the job, I would put my graduate education on hold, too, we would both work for awhile, and we would get married (we had already been engaged for some time, but the wedding date had been "when we're done with school.") If I didn't get the job, I would find another and still do the same. Well, I didn't get the job, and I couldn't find another good one. I decided that continuing my degree, at least until something came up, was the best decision. Meanwhile, she had dropped out, and suddenly felt like we had agreed to jump off a cliff together, only when she jumped I didn't. After explaining my reasoning, she agreed it was sound. We decided to go ahead and get married anyway. In hindsight, I think maybe the decision was made as a way of shoring up the relationship and convincing each other that we were both still serious. Obviously, this is not a good reason to get married. By the time the latest shit hit the proverbial fan, we had already told several friends and family members of our wedding plans, and invested some money. Not much, but we're poor, so abandoning it would hurt.
Now we're left with a few possible choices. Do we re-invest ourselves in this relationship, make it work, and get married as planned?
Do we do as above, but cancel the wedding plans until things have become more stable?
Do we have her go take off and sow her wild oats for a couple months, then come back for fast-track rehabilitation and marriage?
Do we send her off for a couple months while canceling the marriage?
Or do we break up more or less for realsies, in which case I go be single for a year and then see whether I want her back in my life with that perspective?
Please send serious questions, private advice, requests for continued correspondence, whatever, to breakupfilter at gmail dot com
When she began a new relationship, I would say it was effectively over between you two, whether either of you wanted to admit it or not.
Better to end this relationship now then have to deal with these issues 5 or 10 years down the road when you're married and the way out is divorce.
posted by All.star at 6:43 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
Better to end this relationship now then have to deal with these issues 5 or 10 years down the road when you're married and the way out is divorce.
posted by All.star at 6:43 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sometimes you don't see the bus that hits you. Other times you see it coming from a mile away. Relationship experience tells you when to get out of the way.
You've already been hit. Don't be dragged all the way to bumfuckegypt. Get out now.
posted by wfrgms at 6:50 PM on May 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
You've already been hit. Don't be dragged all the way to bumfuckegypt. Get out now.
posted by wfrgms at 6:50 PM on May 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
You do have a choice here, but it's not necessarily a nice one.
She's let you know how much of a commitment she's willing to make, and how honest she's willing to be with you about her needs. Either you're okay with that or you aren't.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:55 PM on May 23, 2008
She's let you know how much of a commitment she's willing to make, and how honest she's willing to be with you about her needs. Either you're okay with that or you aren't.
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:55 PM on May 23, 2008
The big mistake here is that every option involves a plan for you two to reconcile at some point. When you break up, actually do it. Don't wait for each other, don't plan on getting back together. It won't happen. This relationship is over, and you both need to get out and move on. No plans to get back together a year later or after she fucks around and for the love of god let me reiterate: DO NOT WAIT FOR HER.
posted by Loto at 6:58 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Loto at 6:58 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
So she broke a promise and the trust you had? She obviously hasn't tried to put forth anything into your relationship. And then she blames you?
I'll ask the same thing, why do you want this drama?
Forget the invested money along with invested relationship. Start investing into your own life...she already did.
Respecting someone's decisions does not mean you have to go along with them!
Just as a sidenote. I know there are a lot of people out there who are into polyamory and all that. But, personally, I have never seen or heard of a polyamory relationship healthily work out in the long run.
posted by P.o.B. at 7:03 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
I'll ask the same thing, why do you want this drama?
Forget the invested money along with invested relationship. Start investing into your own life...she already did.
Respecting someone's decisions does not mean you have to go along with them!
Just as a sidenote. I know there are a lot of people out there who are into polyamory and all that. But, personally, I have never seen or heard of a polyamory relationship healthily work out in the long run.
posted by P.o.B. at 7:03 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
As far as I can tell from your post, your relationship has been over for months, and you're just clutching its corpse. I think break up for realsies is the way to go. I think you don't just want to be single, but you want to not see her at all, period, for your arbitrary year. Possibly see some other people during that time, but don't force anything. If you can get back in touch after a year and you both want each other again, maybe then it really is something that has long term potential. But I doubt it.
posted by Caduceus at 7:06 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by Caduceus at 7:06 PM on May 23, 2008
Don't you deserve better than this?
posted by frumious bandersnatch at 7:07 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by frumious bandersnatch at 7:07 PM on May 23, 2008
Usually, the "should I break up" questions that go that long lean towards "get the hell out.?"
She has violated your trust. You are holding onto the past. There is a "sunk cost" of emotion, time, and love that you will never get back. Cut your losses and run. There are plenty of other fish in the ocean, with a lot less drama.
posted by toaster at 7:10 PM on May 23, 2008 [3 favorites]
She has violated your trust. You are holding onto the past. There is a "sunk cost" of emotion, time, and love that you will never get back. Cut your losses and run. There are plenty of other fish in the ocean, with a lot less drama.
posted by toaster at 7:10 PM on May 23, 2008 [3 favorites]
Cut your losses and run. There are plenty of other fish in the ocean, with a lot less drama.
Seriously. The two of you are in different places. You're not having any fun with her. She's not hanging out with you, and it sounds like she doesn't even like you all that much anymore. She wants to eat her cake and have it, too, and is that really fair to either of you?
posted by muddgirl at 7:24 PM on May 23, 2008
Seriously. The two of you are in different places. You're not having any fun with her. She's not hanging out with you, and it sounds like she doesn't even like you all that much anymore. She wants to eat her cake and have it, too, and is that really fair to either of you?
posted by muddgirl at 7:24 PM on May 23, 2008
Please do not let any wedding plans you've started on interfere with your ability to think clearly about this. I know it stings, especially when other people expect that you're getting married and you've started paying for and planning things, but ultimately those things will have nothing to do with the rest of your life and your life with her. People will get over your break up and the money is just money. I think committing to marriage right now when you are clearly not sure about this relationship (and she is definitely not sure about the relationship, despite what she's told you about long-term stuff; you seem so understanding and accommodating, but I would not be able to trust her) would be a huge mistake--just stop while you can. (I know you are not me, but I do know what it's like to go through with a wedding because hey, there's a non-refundable deposit on the reception hall and the bridesmaids bought dresses already and this feels really really wrong and if we weren't engaged I would probably be breaking this off but we've got all this history and come this far and this is just a stressful time and it'll all work out in the end, everyone has blips in their relationship, right?)
You have no way of knowing what will happen; you do not have to wait for her and I can't see it being very fulfilling for you. It doesn't sound like you will lose anything by breaking it off, aside from the comfort of being able to deny that you're really broken up. If you do want to really break up, though, you'll need to stay away from her, otherwise your relationship will probably continue on the way it has been. Good luck.
posted by Polychrome at 7:29 PM on May 23, 2008
You have no way of knowing what will happen; you do not have to wait for her and I can't see it being very fulfilling for you. It doesn't sound like you will lose anything by breaking it off, aside from the comfort of being able to deny that you're really broken up. If you do want to really break up, though, you'll need to stay away from her, otherwise your relationship will probably continue on the way it has been. Good luck.
posted by Polychrome at 7:29 PM on May 23, 2008
and it finally clicked with me that I was being played.
Generally, people who really love you don't try to play you. Think about it, you guys had an open relationship and she still managed to violate your trust.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:39 PM on May 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
Generally, people who really love you don't try to play you. Think about it, you guys had an open relationship and she still managed to violate your trust.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:39 PM on May 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
It sounds like your relationship is effectively over. People's engagements break up all the time. Quite possibly because so many people get engaged either to try to prove to others that they are even more serious than serious, or to try to fix things. Your family and friends will be fine. It's yourself that you need to worry about in this situation.
posted by fructose at 7:42 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by fructose at 7:42 PM on May 23, 2008
1) going with the flow, doing the stuff she wanted with him, and not telling me had been easier and more fun than either not doing it or else asking me again if she could.
Less sympathetic reading: she chose him over you in a big way. She saying that she wants to be with you, but her actions are saying that she wants something else.
2) she's really been all about what's easy and fun lately.
Sure. And a serious, long-term relationship takes compromise, work, and commitment, which aren't always easy and fun. Just like with #1, she's choosing option B, "not with you."
3) She has felt like I haven't been pursuing her, I haven't been interested/wanted her.
Probably also true. Relationships take work, and saying "hey babe, sure I don't mind if you go and develop a relationship with that other guy" is another way of saying, "I'm not all that into you right now."
4) She knows I'm the right person for her, long term, but right now there's just nothing there.
Bzzzt. That's like saying, "It's not you it's me," or "I just have a lot on my plate right now." It's a way for her to be nice, and to recognize all the connections you still have, and to try and have her cake and eat it too.
Do we re-invest ourselves in this relationship, make it work, and get married as planned?
Do we do as above, but cancel the wedding plans until things have become more stable?
Do we have her go take off and sow her wild oats for a couple months, then come back for fast-track rehabilitation and marriage?
Do we send her off for a couple months while canceling the marriage?
Or do we break up more or less for realsies, in which case I go be single for a year and then see whether I want her back in my life with that perspective?
At a minimum, you should put the wedding on hold until you figure out if you are really committed to each other. Sure, you've invested some amount of money and prestige (probably a ring and telling a few people, right?); imagine how much more money and public exposure an actual wedding will cost you.
Everyone is different, and I'm sure that the "go sow your wild oats and then we'll make things work later" works for some people. But no one I've seen try it has had any great success. Open marriages are a different thing -- you're talking about her turning her back on the relationship, and then returning to it.
So I vote for either fix what you have and commit to each other (which may, over the long haul, involve sleeping with other people -- there are a lot of ways to have a happy marriage), or break up and get back together if or when you want to commit to each other. But the halfway options (like sort of allowing a side relationship, but not really, or sort of breaking up, but not really) don't seem real workable to me.
posted by Forktine at 8:02 PM on May 23, 2008
Less sympathetic reading: she chose him over you in a big way. She saying that she wants to be with you, but her actions are saying that she wants something else.
2) she's really been all about what's easy and fun lately.
Sure. And a serious, long-term relationship takes compromise, work, and commitment, which aren't always easy and fun. Just like with #1, she's choosing option B, "not with you."
3) She has felt like I haven't been pursuing her, I haven't been interested/wanted her.
Probably also true. Relationships take work, and saying "hey babe, sure I don't mind if you go and develop a relationship with that other guy" is another way of saying, "I'm not all that into you right now."
4) She knows I'm the right person for her, long term, but right now there's just nothing there.
Bzzzt. That's like saying, "It's not you it's me," or "I just have a lot on my plate right now." It's a way for her to be nice, and to recognize all the connections you still have, and to try and have her cake and eat it too.
Do we re-invest ourselves in this relationship, make it work, and get married as planned?
Do we do as above, but cancel the wedding plans until things have become more stable?
Do we have her go take off and sow her wild oats for a couple months, then come back for fast-track rehabilitation and marriage?
Do we send her off for a couple months while canceling the marriage?
Or do we break up more or less for realsies, in which case I go be single for a year and then see whether I want her back in my life with that perspective?
At a minimum, you should put the wedding on hold until you figure out if you are really committed to each other. Sure, you've invested some amount of money and prestige (probably a ring and telling a few people, right?); imagine how much more money and public exposure an actual wedding will cost you.
Everyone is different, and I'm sure that the "go sow your wild oats and then we'll make things work later" works for some people. But no one I've seen try it has had any great success. Open marriages are a different thing -- you're talking about her turning her back on the relationship, and then returning to it.
So I vote for either fix what you have and commit to each other (which may, over the long haul, involve sleeping with other people -- there are a lot of ways to have a happy marriage), or break up and get back together if or when you want to commit to each other. But the halfway options (like sort of allowing a side relationship, but not really, or sort of breaking up, but not really) don't seem real workable to me.
posted by Forktine at 8:02 PM on May 23, 2008
She started breaking up with you last summer. Apparently she's not finished yet. Set yourself free.
posted by nanojath at 8:10 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by nanojath at 8:10 PM on May 23, 2008
I don't know whether others agree, but I think "should we break up" questions overwhelmingly yield "dump the b***" answers here, often based on very limited information, and yet the questions keep coming. One implication perhaps is that you should take all the absolutist answers with a grain of salt. Another might be the comments are reacting to how the post is phrased, which may mean that you have written in such a way as to elicit that particular answer, and to seek validation for an answer you've already arrived at. Probably both.
In any event, I wouldn't let the existence of wedding plans change your mind. It's never as important for the guests as it is for you.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 8:10 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
In any event, I wouldn't let the existence of wedding plans change your mind. It's never as important for the guests as it is for you.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 8:10 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
About 3 months ago, she told me that she'd been having romantic feelings toward one of her friends. That many nights when she said she was out with the whole gang, it was really just him.
This was what did it for me. If you stay with her after this bullshit, you are a grade-A, world-class, Olympic-level chump. Dump her.
posted by jayder at 8:35 PM on May 23, 2008
This was what did it for me. If you stay with her after this bullshit, you are a grade-A, world-class, Olympic-level chump. Dump her.
posted by jayder at 8:35 PM on May 23, 2008
Have a little respect for yourself dude! You (apparently) *very thoroughly* stated what you would be ok with and what you wouldn't be ok with in terms of this side relationship and not only did she transgress these boundaries but then she blames YOU for not pursuing her/ make her feel like you're invested?
You know what she's learned? That she can do what she wants, blame it on you, and have you as a fallback. I'm sorry to be so harsh but you sound like a good guy who has bent over backwards to make this work, and you really deserve someone who has the grace and kindness to respect your desires.
If she's done this once and doesn't seem ready to change, I don't think that marriage or wild-oat sowing is going to fix anything. Get out now. There are plenty of people out there you can have great conversations with, read the same books with, share the same laughs with, who will *respect* you and treat you like their partner, not their doormat. Cut your losses, and find this person, you deserve it!
posted by Eudaimonia at 8:36 PM on May 23, 2008 [3 favorites]
Don't get married until you've decided what you want.
The poly people I know are all about setting whatever boundaries they feel they need and then treating going outside those boundaries as being akin to when monogamous people cheat. Just because you've been cool with her having her bit on the side, does not mean you have to be cool with her going outside your agreement.
This stood out for me: She'd sit on the couch, watch tv and chat. I'd sit in the bedroom and get drunk. So, she'd schedule time with you and then you'd ignore her to drink? Maybe that's a contributing factor in her bailing on you to spend time with people who, presumably, actually pay attention to her. If you decide to try again in whatever capacity, take an interest.
posted by joannemerriam at 8:43 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
The poly people I know are all about setting whatever boundaries they feel they need and then treating going outside those boundaries as being akin to when monogamous people cheat. Just because you've been cool with her having her bit on the side, does not mean you have to be cool with her going outside your agreement.
This stood out for me: She'd sit on the couch, watch tv and chat. I'd sit in the bedroom and get drunk. So, she'd schedule time with you and then you'd ignore her to drink? Maybe that's a contributing factor in her bailing on you to spend time with people who, presumably, actually pay attention to her. If you decide to try again in whatever capacity, take an interest.
posted by joannemerriam at 8:43 PM on May 23, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think she's pretty much going to break up with you, but you're just making it easy for her to avoid making the hard choice by being so wishy-washy and laid back about her doing another guy.
The good news is you can continue on this trajectory, just write her out of your future plans and expect to spend less and less time with her, it might be possible for the two of you to break up without any huge fights and flareups, etc.
Putting pressure on her will just push her away, most likely.
posted by delmoi at 9:04 PM on May 23, 2008
The good news is you can continue on this trajectory, just write her out of your future plans and expect to spend less and less time with her, it might be possible for the two of you to break up without any huge fights and flareups, etc.
Putting pressure on her will just push her away, most likely.
posted by delmoi at 9:04 PM on May 23, 2008
I told her that there was one particular relationship dynamic that she was not allowed to enter into with him
and you've just found out, the hard way, that that never works.
Stiff luck, old chap. Better luck next time.
posted by flabdablet at 9:10 PM on May 23, 2008
and you've just found out, the hard way, that that never works.
Stiff luck, old chap. Better luck next time.
posted by flabdablet at 9:10 PM on May 23, 2008
Time to channel Dan Savage.
DTMFA. SERIOUSLY. Just from the tone of the post.
posted by paultopia at 9:31 PM on May 23, 2008
DTMFA. SERIOUSLY. Just from the tone of the post.
posted by paultopia at 9:31 PM on May 23, 2008
Punch out. Eject. Get out of Dodge. Get on the bus, Gus. Drop off the key, Lee. This is so over it's under.
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:47 PM on May 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by ikkyu2 at 9:47 PM on May 23, 2008 [4 favorites]
I know it's sometimes difficult to see things clearly when involved, but try and reads what you wrote as if it was written by a stranger.
If you like drama, stay with her, but you'd be crazy to marry her.
Either break up with her or go on the jerry springer show.
posted by justgary at 9:53 PM on May 23, 2008
If you like drama, stay with her, but you'd be crazy to marry her.
Either break up with her or go on the jerry springer show.
posted by justgary at 9:53 PM on May 23, 2008
I don't know whether others agree, but I think "should we break up" questions overwhelmingly yield "dump the b***" answers here, often based on very limited information
I'd agree. I think two things contribute to this. People either put a pretty negative spin on things because they are at a really chaotic point and it materializes as negative. Or people are already leaning towards the idea of getting out of the relationship anyway and just need some kind of validation for that idea.
It seems that overall there are more people who are ready to give up and seek out "better options" rather than try to work within the confines of a pre-defined agreement.
Meh. It's easy to find someone who'll say they want a trusting relationship, but hard to find someone who'll abide by that.
Good luck, anonymous. It's not easy letting go of a six year old relationship, but I hope you do.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:25 PM on May 23, 2008
I'd agree. I think two things contribute to this. People either put a pretty negative spin on things because they are at a really chaotic point and it materializes as negative. Or people are already leaning towards the idea of getting out of the relationship anyway and just need some kind of validation for that idea.
It seems that overall there are more people who are ready to give up and seek out "better options" rather than try to work within the confines of a pre-defined agreement.
Meh. It's easy to find someone who'll say they want a trusting relationship, but hard to find someone who'll abide by that.
Good luck, anonymous. It's not easy letting go of a six year old relationship, but I hope you do.
posted by P.o.B. at 10:25 PM on May 23, 2008
IMO, the fact that you are even asking the question leads to a yes, it's over. Sorry.
posted by twistedmetal at 10:38 PM on May 23, 2008
posted by twistedmetal at 10:38 PM on May 23, 2008
Please don't marry her. You've tried everything and even ground rules for a poly relationship. She violated that. It honestly seems she wants out and you really owe it to yourself not to settle for someone who is willing to toss you and your trust aside over and over again.
You're worth more than that. You sound like a good catch: educated, organized, communicative, and willing to compromise. As hard as it might seem right now, make a clean break. You will find someone that genuinely respects you.
posted by cmgonzalez at 11:39 PM on May 23, 2008
You're worth more than that. You sound like a good catch: educated, organized, communicative, and willing to compromise. As hard as it might seem right now, make a clean break. You will find someone that genuinely respects you.
posted by cmgonzalez at 11:39 PM on May 23, 2008
You sound way, way nice and understanding. You deserve much better than this.
Generally, people who really love you don't try to play you. Think about it, you guys had an open relationship and she still managed to violate your trust.
Amen. She had more freedom in your relationship than most people EVER have, and she still wants more than that? She still found a way to play you? She seriously suggested the idea that you two could temporarily break up and she could come back when she got the other guy out of her system? Kudos to her for at least finally being honest about that, but to me that shows she doesn't respect you very much. You could do better than sitting around waiting for her, rearranging your life so that she can fulfill her every whim.
It was decent of you to be willing to try the polyamory thing, but wouldn't you agree you've reached a junction where there's no longer a point to your relationship? Is there any sense in being in a polyamorous relationship with someone when you don't see them and don't have fun together? It seems like it dissolved to the point where there's no real relationship to speak of anymore, except in the realm of semantics.
Plus, there's no real way of knowing she won't do this again if you get married. She's shown that you can't trust her, even when you give her a huge amount of freedom. Do you want to marry someone and have them basically disappear for a year? Anyway, if you do decide to get married -- which I think would be a mistake -- keep your finances separate from hers, just in case she does something like that again and perhaps decides she'd rather live with someone else.
Personally, I don't think she's ready to get married to anyone. I honestly don't see the point of it, from her perspective, since it wouldn't mean anything. I'm not saying that just from the perspective of "why get married if you're not going to be in a monogamous relationship," because I could see how a married couple would make room for polyamory. But she doesn't even spend time with you. Why the marriage at all? What purpose does it serve? It seems clear to me that she doesn't have terribly deep feelings for you since she makes no effort to spend time with you. If it's only financially convenient for her, then you ESPECIALLY shouldn't marry her. The only other thing I can think of is she isn't mature enough to give you up and just wants you on standby while she does whatever she wants.
Break up, and not on any condition that you'll get back together some day. It doesn't make her a terrible person to not want to settle down yet, but it's unreasonable for her to suggest you'd wait for her. She should get married whenever she's finally comfortable with it -- if ever -- but that's her life. You need to do what's best for you.
posted by Nattie at 11:43 PM on May 23, 2008
Generally, people who really love you don't try to play you. Think about it, you guys had an open relationship and she still managed to violate your trust.
Amen. She had more freedom in your relationship than most people EVER have, and she still wants more than that? She still found a way to play you? She seriously suggested the idea that you two could temporarily break up and she could come back when she got the other guy out of her system? Kudos to her for at least finally being honest about that, but to me that shows she doesn't respect you very much. You could do better than sitting around waiting for her, rearranging your life so that she can fulfill her every whim.
It was decent of you to be willing to try the polyamory thing, but wouldn't you agree you've reached a junction where there's no longer a point to your relationship? Is there any sense in being in a polyamorous relationship with someone when you don't see them and don't have fun together? It seems like it dissolved to the point where there's no real relationship to speak of anymore, except in the realm of semantics.
Plus, there's no real way of knowing she won't do this again if you get married. She's shown that you can't trust her, even when you give her a huge amount of freedom. Do you want to marry someone and have them basically disappear for a year? Anyway, if you do decide to get married -- which I think would be a mistake -- keep your finances separate from hers, just in case she does something like that again and perhaps decides she'd rather live with someone else.
Personally, I don't think she's ready to get married to anyone. I honestly don't see the point of it, from her perspective, since it wouldn't mean anything. I'm not saying that just from the perspective of "why get married if you're not going to be in a monogamous relationship," because I could see how a married couple would make room for polyamory. But she doesn't even spend time with you. Why the marriage at all? What purpose does it serve? It seems clear to me that she doesn't have terribly deep feelings for you since she makes no effort to spend time with you. If it's only financially convenient for her, then you ESPECIALLY shouldn't marry her. The only other thing I can think of is she isn't mature enough to give you up and just wants you on standby while she does whatever she wants.
Break up, and not on any condition that you'll get back together some day. It doesn't make her a terrible person to not want to settle down yet, but it's unreasonable for her to suggest you'd wait for her. She should get married whenever she's finally comfortable with it -- if ever -- but that's her life. You need to do what's best for you.
posted by Nattie at 11:43 PM on May 23, 2008
I'm all for staying together, normally, and working on a relationship, but sometimes you just outgrow each other. You have an enormous fondness and memory of shared times and want to keep that, but like high school, it's gone, and usually can't be rekindled. You could do what I did and split up and get back together over and over again, over 4 years, or cut your losses, for both of you, decided on not seeing each other or contacting each other for a minimum of a year (seriously!) and try to see what your lives are about. I'm sorry, but I think she's emotionally invested in someone else now and if she won't let go, you should. The key to this is that you have told her the dealbreaker, and she's not willing to give that up. That's the dealbreaker. You asked, she said no, it's over. Sorry.
posted by b33j at 12:00 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by b33j at 12:00 AM on May 24, 2008
Get out. now.
You said it yourself: you're being played.
posted by The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew at 1:12 AM on May 24, 2008
You said it yourself: you're being played.
posted by The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew at 1:12 AM on May 24, 2008
I dare to disagree!
Anon, your last paragraph is the most important.
Ask her one question. What's her side of the story as to why the relationship trajectory became exactly this.
You guys lost some moment during those three 'fusion' years in the beginning: did not progress to the next natural stage then. Some call the phenomenon 'overcooked' relationship. On top of not proposing back then, you took tough choice to stay in school, which basically meant deferring any practical future together even further. Dude, you betrayed the teammate.
I the moment of crisis, one of the hardest decisions to make when you see that your partner does not want/ is not ready to progress, is to stay, but embrace this detached lifestyle, basically being single, while everyone around still thinks you are a couple.
If you carry such decision through, you get the worst of the deals. To remain sane, you desensitize yourself (and here goes time in front of TV...). To remain balanced, you divest from your own practical future (and here goes taking worse paid, less stressing job, and vacation from work). To shush the knocking conscience of self-doubt, you look for platonic relationships. Seeing that things are progressing with someone else is flattering to the ego, but not really helpful if you see it as just a crutch to get through the life.
Was this what she did?
I'd say rely on external professional help, maybe help of your families and friends. Marriage might very well be the greatest transformation towards growth. I don't say it would trigger your romantic partner to automatically return back into mindset where she was hopeful, dedicated, and motivated to work hard to succeed. It all depends on how much damage happened. But you are young, and most it's probably nothing in the big picture of things.
posted by Jurate at 4:34 AM on May 24, 2008
Anon, your last paragraph is the most important.
Ask her one question. What's her side of the story as to why the relationship trajectory became exactly this.
You guys lost some moment during those three 'fusion' years in the beginning: did not progress to the next natural stage then. Some call the phenomenon 'overcooked' relationship. On top of not proposing back then, you took tough choice to stay in school, which basically meant deferring any practical future together even further. Dude, you betrayed the teammate.
I the moment of crisis, one of the hardest decisions to make when you see that your partner does not want/ is not ready to progress, is to stay, but embrace this detached lifestyle, basically being single, while everyone around still thinks you are a couple.
If you carry such decision through, you get the worst of the deals. To remain sane, you desensitize yourself (and here goes time in front of TV...). To remain balanced, you divest from your own practical future (and here goes taking worse paid, less stressing job, and vacation from work). To shush the knocking conscience of self-doubt, you look for platonic relationships. Seeing that things are progressing with someone else is flattering to the ego, but not really helpful if you see it as just a crutch to get through the life.
Was this what she did?
I'd say rely on external professional help, maybe help of your families and friends. Marriage might very well be the greatest transformation towards growth. I don't say it would trigger your romantic partner to automatically return back into mindset where she was hopeful, dedicated, and motivated to work hard to succeed. It all depends on how much damage happened. But you are young, and most it's probably nothing in the big picture of things.
posted by Jurate at 4:34 AM on May 24, 2008
no matter how you feel about each other deep down and all that unconventional sharing each other, I dont really see how your "relationship" is working. It doesnt sound like its properly worked for a long time. Just cos you both acknowledge reasons why whats happened has happened doesnt mean that any reinvesting time in the relationship will make it function any better in the long run. I mean you gave her the space to have her own life and her own friends and she started feeling you werent interested anymore.
Imho it was a bad move to let her have a relationship with another guy. When people's lives get busy and complicated and people dont get to spend (enough) time together thats when they get confused about their feelings and whether their life is really as they want it. Adding another person with another additional set of emotions to the mix is not going to end well.
Maybe you can handle multiple relationships and different sets of emotions but I'm not sure she can. What you've got now is seriously messed up and any decision based on "it'll make it better in the future" is not a good idea. relationships are learning experiences and imho u have to f**k a few up b4 u get one right. if there's a lesson to be learned here its when then things get complicated, try to get them simpler not more complicated. good luck with whatever u decide tho.
posted by browolf at 4:59 AM on May 24, 2008
Imho it was a bad move to let her have a relationship with another guy. When people's lives get busy and complicated and people dont get to spend (enough) time together thats when they get confused about their feelings and whether their life is really as they want it. Adding another person with another additional set of emotions to the mix is not going to end well.
Maybe you can handle multiple relationships and different sets of emotions but I'm not sure she can. What you've got now is seriously messed up and any decision based on "it'll make it better in the future" is not a good idea. relationships are learning experiences and imho u have to f**k a few up b4 u get one right. if there's a lesson to be learned here its when then things get complicated, try to get them simpler not more complicated. good luck with whatever u decide tho.
posted by browolf at 4:59 AM on May 24, 2008
Without reading the entire screed, nor many of the responses, I can say get out. Move on.
posted by notsnot at 6:50 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by notsnot at 6:50 AM on May 24, 2008
I married a person who was not open with me about how emotionally unprepared he was for marriage until after we were married. When he was finally open about this, we tried counseling, etc, but in his mind it was too late and he shut down to all efforts of "trying to make it work."
A year of emotional and verbal abuse, general mind games, and a whole lotta other bs, he filed the papers and left me.
We were poor, we were students. It would have been a hell of a lot easier to walk away from all those deposits than to endure the resulting psychological battle and legal fees. You deserve better, she deserves whatever she deserves. If there is a ring, get it back. Talk to the vendors, often if they can book another party for the date you had reserved they will give you your deposit back. Take some time to figure your own life out, move out, get your own place or move in with a friend. Finish your degree and find your dream job with nothing holding you back. This relationship is good for nobody.
I have often thought that I should start talking to my ex again, but I realize now he was a total slug and I'm lucky to have gotten out when I did. I had many of the same feelings -- we were "perfect" for each other and it was hard to imagine myself doing the things WE loved on my own...but that doesn't change the fact that he was a liar and generally not nice person, and 2 years later I'm doing just fine and I have no regrets about the way things turned out.
posted by sararah at 7:38 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
A year of emotional and verbal abuse, general mind games, and a whole lotta other bs, he filed the papers and left me.
We were poor, we were students. It would have been a hell of a lot easier to walk away from all those deposits than to endure the resulting psychological battle and legal fees. You deserve better, she deserves whatever she deserves. If there is a ring, get it back. Talk to the vendors, often if they can book another party for the date you had reserved they will give you your deposit back. Take some time to figure your own life out, move out, get your own place or move in with a friend. Finish your degree and find your dream job with nothing holding you back. This relationship is good for nobody.
I have often thought that I should start talking to my ex again, but I realize now he was a total slug and I'm lucky to have gotten out when I did. I had many of the same feelings -- we were "perfect" for each other and it was hard to imagine myself doing the things WE loved on my own...but that doesn't change the fact that he was a liar and generally not nice person, and 2 years later I'm doing just fine and I have no regrets about the way things turned out.
posted by sararah at 7:38 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Simplify your question -
Do I want to be in a relationship with someone who cheated? Can I forgive that? Is she going to change her behavior?
To me it looks like - No. Probably not. No.
Get out now.
posted by 26.2 at 7:41 AM on May 24, 2008
Do I want to be in a relationship with someone who cheated? Can I forgive that? Is she going to change her behavior?
To me it looks like - No. Probably not. No.
Get out now.
posted by 26.2 at 7:41 AM on May 24, 2008
I agree that she's totally baiting you into being the one who finally cuts the cord. Seems like she's pretty much just mooching off you now. She has a do-nothing job making very little I assume because she doesn't want any responsibility? And she's doing the same thing with you. Comfy bf who's keeping the lights on at home and a new guy that, at the moment, is the flavor of the month. That's the best of both worlds. I can't help but say DTMFA but if this isn't normally like her, you guys need therapy STAT, and only if you really think it's worth saving.
posted by CwgrlUp at 8:09 AM on May 24, 2008
posted by CwgrlUp at 8:09 AM on May 24, 2008
I don't know if she's consciously doing this, even, but she's vine-swinging. Like Tarzan, holding onto one relationship while grasping another, holding both for a while before fully moving on to another. You're being used as a safety relationship, much like a safety school with uni apps. As scary as it is for you to give this relationship up, it's probably just as hard for her to lose an unconditionally supportive partner.
Yes, she had a tough time at uni, working hard. Didn't we all? Didn't you? She has needs. You've tried your damndest to meet them. You have needs. Closeness, honesty, affection, respect, love. She has done very little, it seems, to meet these needs for you. Do not let her guilt you into staying by playing this tired "but I'm such a free spirit" BS. She said she wanted freedom and you tried to make this possible for her by agreeing a few rules. Not dictating - agreeing. Rules between you that she chose to break. She isn't really very sorry about it. She's sorry she got caught, and vaguely sorry you're upset, but not sorry enough to try and really work things out between you or even to cut this guy out of the equation. It's the equivalent of leaving you with someone she's cheating with, and asking you to be there to help her pack her things to move into this guy's house, since you're such a nice person. Why are you allowing her to do treat you this way?
Either you enjoy being supportive more than being respected, and she knows it, or she simply doesn't care what you feel. She may care about you in an abstract way, but it's pretty clear she doesn't respect you right now. Find someone who will. Hell, you never know... ten years from now, you might wind up together. Or you might just barely be able to be friends. But you do not need this right now, if ever. You have a right to know where you stand with someone you call your life's partner.
In the boiling range of humanity I've encountered, I have only known one couple who successfully has navigated polyamory. They do this by being supremely honest and connected to eachother. Whatever excursions they make separately, they respect their partner's boundaries, are unflinchingly honest, even when it might be easier to lie or fudge things. It's because their relationship is more important to them than any of the other stuff. They've been married 17 yrs. Their partner and the love and support and yes, attraction and fun they have together as a couple is way more of a buzz to them than any one person to sleep with or activity or dynamic. They aren't always a three or foursome, too. They have a lot of time where it is just the two of them, together. Me? I couldn't do it, not for 17 years and counting. They can.
Your girlfriend isn't in this particular headspace. She's into the "me and more fun and exploration for me, as a person rejecting responsibilities" headspace. Your relationship isn't as important to her as her need to be free - whatever "free" means at that minute. If this bothers you, it's over. If it doesn't, then who am I to say?
The fact that you read her online journal to find out what the real story was should tell you something. You didn't feel you could get the story from her just by sitting down on the couch with her for a chat.
Don't get married, whatever you do. I can guarantee that whatever stress and hassle you get from your family and whatever cost might come from non-refundable wedding deposits is absolutely nothing compared to what you'll have to cope with in a divorce.
posted by Grrlscout at 9:10 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yes, she had a tough time at uni, working hard. Didn't we all? Didn't you? She has needs. You've tried your damndest to meet them. You have needs. Closeness, honesty, affection, respect, love. She has done very little, it seems, to meet these needs for you. Do not let her guilt you into staying by playing this tired "but I'm such a free spirit" BS. She said she wanted freedom and you tried to make this possible for her by agreeing a few rules. Not dictating - agreeing. Rules between you that she chose to break. She isn't really very sorry about it. She's sorry she got caught, and vaguely sorry you're upset, but not sorry enough to try and really work things out between you or even to cut this guy out of the equation. It's the equivalent of leaving you with someone she's cheating with, and asking you to be there to help her pack her things to move into this guy's house, since you're such a nice person. Why are you allowing her to do treat you this way?
Either you enjoy being supportive more than being respected, and she knows it, or she simply doesn't care what you feel. She may care about you in an abstract way, but it's pretty clear she doesn't respect you right now. Find someone who will. Hell, you never know... ten years from now, you might wind up together. Or you might just barely be able to be friends. But you do not need this right now, if ever. You have a right to know where you stand with someone you call your life's partner.
In the boiling range of humanity I've encountered, I have only known one couple who successfully has navigated polyamory. They do this by being supremely honest and connected to eachother. Whatever excursions they make separately, they respect their partner's boundaries, are unflinchingly honest, even when it might be easier to lie or fudge things. It's because their relationship is more important to them than any of the other stuff. They've been married 17 yrs. Their partner and the love and support and yes, attraction and fun they have together as a couple is way more of a buzz to them than any one person to sleep with or activity or dynamic. They aren't always a three or foursome, too. They have a lot of time where it is just the two of them, together. Me? I couldn't do it, not for 17 years and counting. They can.
Your girlfriend isn't in this particular headspace. She's into the "me and more fun and exploration for me, as a person rejecting responsibilities" headspace. Your relationship isn't as important to her as her need to be free - whatever "free" means at that minute. If this bothers you, it's over. If it doesn't, then who am I to say?
The fact that you read her online journal to find out what the real story was should tell you something. You didn't feel you could get the story from her just by sitting down on the couch with her for a chat.
Don't get married, whatever you do. I can guarantee that whatever stress and hassle you get from your family and whatever cost might come from non-refundable wedding deposits is absolutely nothing compared to what you'll have to cope with in a divorce.
posted by Grrlscout at 9:10 AM on May 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
This sucks a lot, but yep, time to move on. You have tried to giver her space and give her the chance to do what she wishes, mostly at your expense. What has she given you? Nothing but lies about where she has been and what her new relationship is like.
Best of luck, this will be hard.
posted by lacedback at 1:18 PM on May 24, 2008
Best of luck, this will be hard.
posted by lacedback at 1:18 PM on May 24, 2008
yeap, this indeed sucks. Read the original message from beginning to the end, people. She did not let him down out of the blue. She pretty much went along with what was their common bad planning (or total lack of life planning to be more exact). Ain't it just the easiest way to call DTMFA, especially when it is not your life.
posted by Jurate at 2:14 PM on May 24, 2008
posted by Jurate at 2:14 PM on May 24, 2008
Yes, break up.
posted by electroboy at 1:10 AM on May 26, 2008
posted by electroboy at 1:10 AM on May 26, 2008
If you go back to her you are now the person who set the rule, watched the rule get broken, and then came back for more. You were upfront with her about what the limits were and she chose not to respect you and those limits. Say sayonara.
posted by hulahulagirl at 2:52 PM on May 27, 2008
posted by hulahulagirl at 2:52 PM on May 27, 2008
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posted by mpls2 at 6:43 PM on May 23, 2008 [3 favorites]