Must be nice to work six hours a day and get paid for eight
May 6, 2008 10:56 AM Subscribe
My coworkers come in late, leave early and take extended lunches. Help me deal with their behavior until I can finally leave this job.
I work on an IT deskside support group and my two coworkers never work a full 40 hour week. Both of them come in at least half an hour late, leave at least 15-20 minutes early and take twice their allowed 45 minutes for lunch. This isn’t once in a while; they do this almost every day and have been doing it for over half a year. They can get away with this because they physically work in another building located a short drive away and there is no managerial presence close to them.
I’ve ruled out trying to get them disciplined because my team lead is unapproachable. He takes a very ‘hands off’ approach to the job (as long as no one complains, we get away with anything) and is also actively and not-so-secretly looking for a way out of our group. I’ve tried to ask his help with other personnel issues in the past and he has never been helpful. I don’t want to go to anyone higher up than him because that would most likely result in getting him or my coworkers in a world of trouble and I don’t want to get anyone fired.
I’ve also tried talking to them about this but they essentially said “sucks to be you” and ignored me.
I’m moving out of the area in just under four months so finding another job up here is out of the question. I also know that their behavior isn’t directly affecting me at all but it still really bothers me that they essentially have a 32 hour work week but are getting paid for 40 hours.
What are some things I can do to cope with this environment until I can finally quit in a few months?
(Note: I wouldn’t have an issue with their behavior if it happened once in a while. We’re all human and everyone sleeps in late or skips our early on a Friday sometimes.)
I work on an IT deskside support group and my two coworkers never work a full 40 hour week. Both of them come in at least half an hour late, leave at least 15-20 minutes early and take twice their allowed 45 minutes for lunch. This isn’t once in a while; they do this almost every day and have been doing it for over half a year. They can get away with this because they physically work in another building located a short drive away and there is no managerial presence close to them.
I’ve ruled out trying to get them disciplined because my team lead is unapproachable. He takes a very ‘hands off’ approach to the job (as long as no one complains, we get away with anything) and is also actively and not-so-secretly looking for a way out of our group. I’ve tried to ask his help with other personnel issues in the past and he has never been helpful. I don’t want to go to anyone higher up than him because that would most likely result in getting him or my coworkers in a world of trouble and I don’t want to get anyone fired.
I’ve also tried talking to them about this but they essentially said “sucks to be you” and ignored me.
I’m moving out of the area in just under four months so finding another job up here is out of the question. I also know that their behavior isn’t directly affecting me at all but it still really bothers me that they essentially have a 32 hour work week but are getting paid for 40 hours.
What are some things I can do to cope with this environment until I can finally quit in a few months?
(Note: I wouldn’t have an issue with their behavior if it happened once in a while. We’re all human and everyone sleeps in late or skips our early on a Friday sometimes.)
I don't understand - how do you know they do this if you don't even work in the same building as them?
posted by boomchicka at 11:01 AM on May 6, 2008
posted by boomchicka at 11:01 AM on May 6, 2008
I also know that their behavior isn’t directly affecting me at all but it still really bothers me that they essentially have a 32 hour work week but are getting paid for 40 hours.
If it's not affecting you, but is only an irritation, it's time to say: "There are battles to pick and this is not one of them."
posted by meerkatty at 11:03 AM on May 6, 2008 [6 favorites]
If it's not affecting you, but is only an irritation, it's time to say: "There are battles to pick and this is not one of them."
posted by meerkatty at 11:03 AM on May 6, 2008 [6 favorites]
I know that their behavior isn’t directly affecting me at all
Repeat this to yourself every time you think about it until it no longer bothers you or until you leave the job, whichever comes first.
posted by Floydd at 11:04 AM on May 6, 2008 [10 favorites]
Repeat this to yourself every time you think about it until it no longer bothers you or until you leave the job, whichever comes first.
posted by Floydd at 11:04 AM on May 6, 2008 [10 favorites]
You're essentially describing me. It's not that I don't try, but I manage to always get to work late, and my lunches tend to always be a little bit long, and sometimes, if it's slow, I'll slip out early.
I feel bad about it, in an abstract way, I guess, and the idea of showing up on time and taking my designated lunch sounds like something that would be good, but when it comes time for the rubber to meet the road it just doesn't happen.
You say that their behavior is not affecting you, and I think that, right there, you have your answer. It's not affecting you and you're not in a supervisory position and it is, therefore, not your problem or, honestly, your business. They choose to not be model employees and it's tolerated and accepted behavior and you can hope, one day, it catches up with them and the system deals with them in the way that it should. In the mean time, until you leave, I think you need to focus on just putting on blinders.
People who do not have the same conviction and set of standards are always going to take advantage of the system where you would not, and if you let it it will eat you alive. Don't be that guy or girl. To each their own.
posted by kbanas at 11:06 AM on May 6, 2008 [4 favorites]
I feel bad about it, in an abstract way, I guess, and the idea of showing up on time and taking my designated lunch sounds like something that would be good, but when it comes time for the rubber to meet the road it just doesn't happen.
You say that their behavior is not affecting you, and I think that, right there, you have your answer. It's not affecting you and you're not in a supervisory position and it is, therefore, not your problem or, honestly, your business. They choose to not be model employees and it's tolerated and accepted behavior and you can hope, one day, it catches up with them and the system deals with them in the way that it should. In the mean time, until you leave, I think you need to focus on just putting on blinders.
People who do not have the same conviction and set of standards are always going to take advantage of the system where you would not, and if you let it it will eat you alive. Don't be that guy or girl. To each their own.
posted by kbanas at 11:06 AM on May 6, 2008 [4 favorites]
I also know that their behavior isn’t directly affecting me at all
So why the question?
posted by pieoverdone at 11:08 AM on May 6, 2008
So why the question?
posted by pieoverdone at 11:08 AM on May 6, 2008
If it "isn't directly affecting" you at all and you're leaving in a few months, you probably only care due to a general value of fairness that you hold.
Unfortunately, people are rarely put in the position to fix unfair situations that they know about. Maybe you can do your part to adhere to your value of fairness by correcting unfair situations you are able to do something about.
posted by demiurge at 11:09 AM on May 6, 2008
Unfortunately, people are rarely put in the position to fix unfair situations that they know about. Maybe you can do your part to adhere to your value of fairness by correcting unfair situations you are able to do something about.
posted by demiurge at 11:09 AM on May 6, 2008
You don't have any control over their behavior, so it is only harmful to you to stress about it. Taking ownership of a problem that isn't yours to deal with is just going to drive you crazy. You are a short timer anyway, so you don't have any long term interest in the state fo the company. It's time for you to develop as much of an "I don't give a damn" attitude as your conscience will allow you to have and still keep your self dignity. Good luck with your future plans!!!
posted by Daddy-O at 11:09 AM on May 6, 2008
posted by Daddy-O at 11:09 AM on May 6, 2008
Would you feel better if you knew they worked 40 hours a week but had a 25% higher salary than you do? The salary and behaviour of your coworkers isn't really any of your concern, so just put it out of your mind as long as the company is paying you for all the hours you work.
posted by wabashbdw at 11:12 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by wabashbdw at 11:12 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why is it a problem for you? I ask because, beyond you being irritated, does it matter? If the system is easily exploited, it's easily exploited and as you're not the boss, it's not your problem.
Unless you're copping for the work they aren't doing because they're not around, in which case you're perfectly within your rights to go higher up on the complaint level. It isn't snitching, it's a resourcing issue that your manager should be dealing with.
If that's not the case, it's probably best to turn a blind eye, get a big desk calendar and just mark the days to go til departure one by one!
posted by freya_lamb at 11:13 AM on May 6, 2008
Unless you're copping for the work they aren't doing because they're not around, in which case you're perfectly within your rights to go higher up on the complaint level. It isn't snitching, it's a resourcing issue that your manager should be dealing with.
If that's not the case, it's probably best to turn a blind eye, get a big desk calendar and just mark the days to go til departure one by one!
posted by freya_lamb at 11:13 AM on May 6, 2008
Mind your own business.
posted by rhizome at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2008 [11 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2008 [11 favorites]
So, it really bothers you but as you see it your only option is to possibly get them fired. And it doesn't bother you enough to do that. Since it looks like you can do nothing to change them, you'll have to work on changing you.
As noted above, you pick your battles and it looks like you are not picking this one. So stop worrying about their hours and go on with the job for four months.
Alternatively, shorten your work week to match if it will make you feel better. If you can't actually be late and take long lunches, start doing things at your desk that free up time for you at home. A lot of life administrative stuff can be done while sitting at a computer, and it doesn't really look like goofing off.
Otherwise, bask in your stronger work ethic and hope for more like-minded co-workers at the new job.
posted by mikepop at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2008
As noted above, you pick your battles and it looks like you are not picking this one. So stop worrying about their hours and go on with the job for four months.
Alternatively, shorten your work week to match if it will make you feel better. If you can't actually be late and take long lunches, start doing things at your desk that free up time for you at home. A lot of life administrative stuff can be done while sitting at a computer, and it doesn't really look like goofing off.
Otherwise, bask in your stronger work ethic and hope for more like-minded co-workers at the new job.
posted by mikepop at 11:14 AM on May 6, 2008
I also know that their behavior isn’t directly affecting me at all but it still really bothers me that they essentially have a 32 hour work week but are getting paid for 40 hours.
MYOB. The person cutting their paychecks doesn't seem to mind, so you shouldn't, either.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:16 AM on May 6, 2008
If you were their supervisor, I'd say that you need to keep them busier.
Since you're not, the only thing I can suggest is that this be something that you bring up in your exit interview.
posted by desuetude at 11:17 AM on May 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
Since you're not, the only thing I can suggest is that this be something that you bring up in your exit interview.
posted by desuetude at 11:17 AM on May 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
I feel you - I have coworkers who behave this way. It is much harder for me to hold myself to a high standard when everyone else is slacking off without consequence. In fact, I have been seriously slipping lately. If you feel this happening, then you need to refocus: that is a YOU problem, not a them problem, and what you need are strategies that will help you stay focused and motivated.
Or, perhaps, the problem is that you're jealous of the relative ease of their workday and resentful that your greater devotion is not being recognized. This is another you problem. The solution is to figure out how to make sure your contribution is seen by your superiors (context-dependent) or to find a different group to compare yourself to and compete with, so that your narrative is not "those dicks are out-relaxing me again" but is "these other guys are working harder than I am! I need to get on my game!"
If neither situation applies to you, then I agree with everyone else -- there seems to be no effect on you, so let this one go. You're not responsible for your coworkers.
posted by prefpara at 11:18 AM on May 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
Or, perhaps, the problem is that you're jealous of the relative ease of their workday and resentful that your greater devotion is not being recognized. This is another you problem. The solution is to figure out how to make sure your contribution is seen by your superiors (context-dependent) or to find a different group to compare yourself to and compete with, so that your narrative is not "those dicks are out-relaxing me again" but is "these other guys are working harder than I am! I need to get on my game!"
If neither situation applies to you, then I agree with everyone else -- there seems to be no effect on you, so let this one go. You're not responsible for your coworkers.
posted by prefpara at 11:18 AM on May 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's not your problem. Let it go.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:21 AM on May 6, 2008
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:21 AM on May 6, 2008
I applaud your work ethic, but since this does not affect you and you can't change their behavior, I fail to see why you are getting your knickers in a twist about it. Keep your own house in order and -- no offense -- find something more productive to do with your time than minding other peoples' business.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 11:22 AM on May 6, 2008
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 11:22 AM on May 6, 2008
As our vice-president likes to say, 'You need to find a hill worth dying on.' This ain't it.
Seriously though, this is a problem completely outside of your control from what you've said, so there's no use wasting energy on it. If it's the worst complaint you have about your co-workers, your company's probably not that bad.
posted by StephenF at 11:25 AM on May 6, 2008
Seriously though, this is a problem completely outside of your control from what you've said, so there's no use wasting energy on it. If it's the worst complaint you have about your co-workers, your company's probably not that bad.
posted by StephenF at 11:25 AM on May 6, 2008
If they get all their work done (i.e., they aren't leaving you holding down a busy fort every day after they leave), they why do you care what they do?
posted by Pecinpah at 11:28 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Pecinpah at 11:28 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Agreeing with the "it's not affecting you, so let it go" chorus.
To a point. I also have had a co-worker who drove me nuts and got under my skin -- but there was nothing I could do about it. That is, nothing SERIOUS. She was flaky, talked constantly at a top volume, and absolutely thick as a god-damn plank. But she was also the only person who had thus far managed to work for the very difficult person she worked for and not quit within a week.
So she had a sort of tenure. So until she did something blatantly wrong, they weren't inclined to do anything about her, so I was stuck listening to her all day.
So I didn't complain -- that is, I didn't complain to anyone at work. But -- I did set up a restricted-to-the-general-public section of my blog, give her a silly nickname, and regaled friends with some of the more idiotic things I heard her say (her interrupting a phone call to ask me, with a very intense furrowed brow, what species Yoda was is one of my favorite quotes); by the time she finally was let go, she'd earned such a following that we were all actually a little disappointed.
Use it as fuel for a "who's got the suckiest job" contest when out with your friends, and in the meantime, bask in the knowledge that they will have karma bite them on the ass in the end. For it will.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:35 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
To a point. I also have had a co-worker who drove me nuts and got under my skin -- but there was nothing I could do about it. That is, nothing SERIOUS. She was flaky, talked constantly at a top volume, and absolutely thick as a god-damn plank. But she was also the only person who had thus far managed to work for the very difficult person she worked for and not quit within a week.
So she had a sort of tenure. So until she did something blatantly wrong, they weren't inclined to do anything about her, so I was stuck listening to her all day.
So I didn't complain -- that is, I didn't complain to anyone at work. But -- I did set up a restricted-to-the-general-public section of my blog, give her a silly nickname, and regaled friends with some of the more idiotic things I heard her say (her interrupting a phone call to ask me, with a very intense furrowed brow, what species Yoda was is one of my favorite quotes); by the time she finally was let go, she'd earned such a following that we were all actually a little disappointed.
Use it as fuel for a "who's got the suckiest job" contest when out with your friends, and in the meantime, bask in the knowledge that they will have karma bite them on the ass in the end. For it will.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:35 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
These people are taking advantage of, and stealing from their employer. That is unfortunate and something for them to deal with on their own. Maybe it wears on their conscience. Maybe they feel guilty. Maybe they don't. Maybe they hate themselves. Maybe they're pleased as punch. We'll never know and it doesn't really matter.
You're in a place where you can respect yourself and feel good about your efforts and integrity. You're a stand-up guy. You're doing the right thing. Be proud of that. You can sleep peacefully at night.
posted by LoriFLA at 11:36 AM on May 6, 2008
You're in a place where you can respect yourself and feel good about your efforts and integrity. You're a stand-up guy. You're doing the right thing. Be proud of that. You can sleep peacefully at night.
posted by LoriFLA at 11:36 AM on May 6, 2008
Best answer: a) If your colleagues work habits or behavior do not support the mission of your institution or make it difficult for you to support the mission of your institution, than it is your responsibility to research the best method in your workplace to begin the process of making work better. In some workplaces this dictates starting a discussion with your supervisor, in others it means working with HR, and many places ask that the affected team start with themselves, first. This doesn't apply if you are in an unsafe or unethical situation, but you have simply described a workplace environment that doesn't line up with your working philosophy, but may, in fact, work for the institution as a whole (maybe not). Look at your handbook. If it says that after trying to mitigate a situation with your team and your supervisor you are to go to the next administrative level, that's not about 'getting people in trouble' it's about learning what the actual philosophy of this environment is and if it's being applied to your area. You could learn that what you perceive as lazy is actually an unofficial policy that your workplace has found raises productivity when workers are behind the desk.
b) I realize that you're looking to cope in the short term, not get through a long-term process, but I think "a" is worth mentioning because differences like these don't go away with the next job. In looking for more structure in your next position, you may find yourself mired to a management that accounts for your every minute, making an equally intolerable workplace. Think of these next four months as a way to practice working civilly through your job's procedures to see if you can make your spot a bit better for yourself and even better for the next person--even if it's only to understand, exactly, why your co-workers have taken on this particular culture. You may learn something, from a systemic perspective, about how your organization works or doesn't work, you may learn about how policy is applied and enforced, or you may just learn that your co-workers are taking advantage (or that you're being unnecessarily concerned about this matter). In any of these cases you have internalized important, rare skills to take to your next job. Simply "coping" is NOT a skill that builds successful careers, it's just not.
c) Working is a big part of your day, of your life. Don't spend eight hours a day "coping." That's worse than your colleagues spending two in some way they see fit.
posted by rumposinc at 11:44 AM on May 6, 2008
b) I realize that you're looking to cope in the short term, not get through a long-term process, but I think "a" is worth mentioning because differences like these don't go away with the next job. In looking for more structure in your next position, you may find yourself mired to a management that accounts for your every minute, making an equally intolerable workplace. Think of these next four months as a way to practice working civilly through your job's procedures to see if you can make your spot a bit better for yourself and even better for the next person--even if it's only to understand, exactly, why your co-workers have taken on this particular culture. You may learn something, from a systemic perspective, about how your organization works or doesn't work, you may learn about how policy is applied and enforced, or you may just learn that your co-workers are taking advantage (or that you're being unnecessarily concerned about this matter). In any of these cases you have internalized important, rare skills to take to your next job. Simply "coping" is NOT a skill that builds successful careers, it's just not.
c) Working is a big part of your day, of your life. Don't spend eight hours a day "coping." That's worse than your colleagues spending two in some way they see fit.
posted by rumposinc at 11:44 AM on May 6, 2008
I also know that their behavior isn’t directly affecting me at all but it still really bothers me that they essentially have a 32 hour work week but are getting paid for 40 hours.
Stop being a cop. You said it doesn't affect you, so why do you care? It's none of your business.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:48 AM on May 6, 2008
Stop being a cop. You said it doesn't affect you, so why do you care? It's none of your business.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:48 AM on May 6, 2008
Um, I actually think that sounds like your boss isn't giving them enough work to do. Trust me, I get bored out of my mind at work (hence on Metafilter right now) and yeah, if you know you're gonna come into work and there's nothing to do, there really isn't much incentive to get here on time (I should know, I was late today.) I mean, you can see their behavior as, "Obviously, they're only getting 6 hours worth of work or less a day." What else do you want them to do with the extra 2 hours? Surf the internets? Essentially the same thing, isn't it?
I mean, logically, if they actually had 8 hours of work to do, and they only did 6 hours, they'd be at -2 every day, which will pile up and definitely be noticed by a manager. Just accept that sometimes there isn't exactly 8 hours worth of work for every single person in the company, and so long as everyone does what they're supposed to do, the company's not getting hurt. We're paid not so much for our time as our accomplishments, but the system works to pay us for our time because it's much easier to say "Rob gets paid $20/hr" than "Rob gets paid $300 for this project, $500 for this project, etc."
(With the notable exception of security guards, receptionists, and other people who are paid to be present, rather than paid to perform a task.)
So, if their behavior isn't hurting anything, what exactly are they doing "wrong"?
posted by reebear at 11:51 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
I mean, logically, if they actually had 8 hours of work to do, and they only did 6 hours, they'd be at -2 every day, which will pile up and definitely be noticed by a manager. Just accept that sometimes there isn't exactly 8 hours worth of work for every single person in the company, and so long as everyone does what they're supposed to do, the company's not getting hurt. We're paid not so much for our time as our accomplishments, but the system works to pay us for our time because it's much easier to say "Rob gets paid $20/hr" than "Rob gets paid $300 for this project, $500 for this project, etc."
(With the notable exception of security guards, receptionists, and other people who are paid to be present, rather than paid to perform a task.)
So, if their behavior isn't hurting anything, what exactly are they doing "wrong"?
posted by reebear at 11:51 AM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
If the work is getting done (and you're not the one picking up the slack), your best option is to ignore it. Stop monitoring their comings and goings - you're not their supervisor, right? - as it will only make you crazy. Do your work, and let someone else worry about the work (or lack of it) your co-workers are doing.
There will always be someone who isn't, or doesn't look like, they're pulling their weight. If you are their boss or supervisor, or their slacking makes more work for you, then you can make an issue of it. Otherwise, it's really best to leave it alone, and do your job right.
posted by rtha at 11:51 AM on May 6, 2008
There will always be someone who isn't, or doesn't look like, they're pulling their weight. If you are their boss or supervisor, or their slacking makes more work for you, then you can make an issue of it. Otherwise, it's really best to leave it alone, and do your job right.
posted by rtha at 11:51 AM on May 6, 2008
These people are taking advantage of, and stealing from their employer.
Not necessarily. In the US, these positions are likely to be held by exempt employees on a salary, not getting paid by the hour.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:13 PM on May 6, 2008
There's are two states of mind when it comes to working. One is that you are getting paid to be present and put your butt on a seat for 8 hours(or whatever your shift is) a day there may not be enough work for you to do but you need to be there in case there is. The other is that you are paid to get X amount done. This different approach towards work creates friction that can be solved by finding a workplace that generally follows your philosophy of work.
I would leave these guys alone. There's nothing to be angry about.
posted by captaincrouton at 12:15 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
I would leave these guys alone. There's nothing to be angry about.
posted by captaincrouton at 12:15 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
MYOB++
Also... "These people are taking advantage of, and stealing from their employer."
That's an awfully sanctimonious appraisal of the situation. Might it be that they just don't have enough work to fill up all hours of the day? So, instead of sitting on their hands, they use that time for something else, thus increasing the amount of happiness in the world... they have a better quality of life and the employer is satisfied with the work getting done. It's a win/win.
It's the same thing as sitting at your desk and surfing the internet when you have nothing to do. Surely THAT doesn't count as "taking advantage of, and stealing from[, one's] employer". It's effectively the same thing, the only difference is where the person is when they're not working.
posted by toomuchpete at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2008
Also... "These people are taking advantage of, and stealing from their employer."
That's an awfully sanctimonious appraisal of the situation. Might it be that they just don't have enough work to fill up all hours of the day? So, instead of sitting on their hands, they use that time for something else, thus increasing the amount of happiness in the world... they have a better quality of life and the employer is satisfied with the work getting done. It's a win/win.
It's the same thing as sitting at your desk and surfing the internet when you have nothing to do. Surely THAT doesn't count as "taking advantage of, and stealing from[, one's] employer". It's effectively the same thing, the only difference is where the person is when they're not working.
posted by toomuchpete at 12:16 PM on May 6, 2008
Best answer: Though I'm definitely in agreement with the others who are saying you should learn to ignore it, I want to express my empathy with how difficult that can be. I've been in your exact situation, and it's maddening to someone with a strong work ethic. You end up feeling like a taken-advantage-of chump if you're the only one putting in a full workday, because these other people are demonstrating that you could easily get away with much less work. But at the same time, you feel like a slacker if you don't work as hard as you should, and you lose the sense of self-worth and pride that comes with having a strong work ethic. At least for me, I found through some self-examination that I wasn't even really upset with my coworkers for leaving early, I just HATED having to choose whether to be a chump or a slacker every day.
I don't have any great solutions for how you get over that feeling. I just didn't want you to start feeling even worse because of all these "stop being so nosy" answers that you're getting. As you said, your coworkers' behavior isn't affecting you in terms of the work you have to do. It IS affecting you because it has changed the context in which you evaluate yourself as an employee and as a person. It's completely fair to be frustrated by that. The general understanding when you get hired is that you choose each day between working and getting fired. You've been unwittingly placed in a situation where your new choice is between working and feeling bad for not working. It's unexpected and uncomfortable, and you're well within your rights to feel upset about it.
posted by vytae at 12:17 PM on May 6, 2008
I don't have any great solutions for how you get over that feeling. I just didn't want you to start feeling even worse because of all these "stop being so nosy" answers that you're getting. As you said, your coworkers' behavior isn't affecting you in terms of the work you have to do. It IS affecting you because it has changed the context in which you evaluate yourself as an employee and as a person. It's completely fair to be frustrated by that. The general understanding when you get hired is that you choose each day between working and getting fired. You've been unwittingly placed in a situation where your new choice is between working and feeling bad for not working. It's unexpected and uncomfortable, and you're well within your rights to feel upset about it.
posted by vytae at 12:17 PM on May 6, 2008
Best answer: I think that your frustration is due less to the actual lateness (etc), and more to their attitude about it. If they actually appeared ashamed and guilty it would be one thing, but they clearly don't think their behavior is a big deal. Your values say that when people are contracted and paid for a 40-hour work week, they are obligated to make the sacrifices necessary to adhere to that contract. Not only are they breaking their contract, they're practically flaunting it. It's like they're scoffing at your system of ethics.
The problem is that your values are not absolute. Some people just don't consider it necessary to put forth their best effort at every job they take. It sounds like your workplace as a whole doesn't consider this necessary either, or your coworkers would have been smacked down by now. They just prioritize other things over job performance: non-work responsibilities, free time, or, if your job fucking sucks, mental health. I think many people consider their work life separate from their personal identity - it's something they have to do, not something that they're choosing to do - and so they just put in the bare minimum of effort so they can return to Real Life as soon as possible. But then, there are a lot of other people who put in the bare minimum of effort in absolutely everything they do. Resenting them will just make you crazy.
Ask yourself if this value you hold is worth keeping even if not everybody shares it. If it is, keep adhering to it. The world can always use more people who maintain their own ethical standards. But recognize that you're doing it for yourself, for your own best interest; your coworkers, in turn, are behaving in theirs. When that fails, the serenity prayer works well for me.
I personally consider myself a very ethical person, but I've pulled this kind of shit at all sorts of jobs when I knew there wouldn't be any serious consequences. Especially when I was temping. I didn't want to be there, I had other things I wanted to be doing, and if nobody cared if I was there or not, why shouldn't I leave early? Shit, I just got paid $9.00 for the half hour I spent writing this AskMe response. Do I feel guilty? Not really. I suppose I could have scrounged up some project around here, but I have other priorities, like contributing to this fine community for the ultimate good of humanity.
posted by granted at 12:31 PM on May 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
The problem is that your values are not absolute. Some people just don't consider it necessary to put forth their best effort at every job they take. It sounds like your workplace as a whole doesn't consider this necessary either, or your coworkers would have been smacked down by now. They just prioritize other things over job performance: non-work responsibilities, free time, or, if your job fucking sucks, mental health. I think many people consider their work life separate from their personal identity - it's something they have to do, not something that they're choosing to do - and so they just put in the bare minimum of effort so they can return to Real Life as soon as possible. But then, there are a lot of other people who put in the bare minimum of effort in absolutely everything they do. Resenting them will just make you crazy.
Ask yourself if this value you hold is worth keeping even if not everybody shares it. If it is, keep adhering to it. The world can always use more people who maintain their own ethical standards. But recognize that you're doing it for yourself, for your own best interest; your coworkers, in turn, are behaving in theirs. When that fails, the serenity prayer works well for me.
I personally consider myself a very ethical person, but I've pulled this kind of shit at all sorts of jobs when I knew there wouldn't be any serious consequences. Especially when I was temping. I didn't want to be there, I had other things I wanted to be doing, and if nobody cared if I was there or not, why shouldn't I leave early? Shit, I just got paid $9.00 for the half hour I spent writing this AskMe response. Do I feel guilty? Not really. I suppose I could have scrounged up some project around here, but I have other priorities, like contributing to this fine community for the ultimate good of humanity.
posted by granted at 12:31 PM on May 6, 2008 [2 favorites]
Just ask yourself - What would Dwight Schrute do?
Just kidding. I know what you mean completely. Just try to focus on doing right for yourself - it doesn't sound like there's much to be done. This might be a good subject for an exit interview, as someone already suggested.
posted by mgogol at 1:24 PM on May 6, 2008
Just kidding. I know what you mean completely. Just try to focus on doing right for yourself - it doesn't sound like there's much to be done. This might be a good subject for an exit interview, as someone already suggested.
posted by mgogol at 1:24 PM on May 6, 2008
You are a different type of person from them. You are going to have a very different life, as long as you are smart enough to work for people who pay attention enough to recognize you for what you are.
Let them live life their way, and you live life your way.
If it seems like they get rewarded as much or more than you do, for whatever reason, then you can look at a) whether this is the type of environment in which your own strengths are rewarded, and b) whether you have traits that work against you (in this environment or generally) that take away from the natural advantage your work ethic yields.
But realize that there's no reason to compare yourself to them; you are just doing things differently.
posted by amtho at 1:53 PM on May 6, 2008
Let them live life their way, and you live life your way.
If it seems like they get rewarded as much or more than you do, for whatever reason, then you can look at a) whether this is the type of environment in which your own strengths are rewarded, and b) whether you have traits that work against you (in this environment or generally) that take away from the natural advantage your work ethic yields.
But realize that there's no reason to compare yourself to them; you are just doing things differently.
posted by amtho at 1:53 PM on May 6, 2008
Best answer: Hmmm. I think some of the comments here aren't really addressing your question, which was about how you can cope with it, not whether to stop it.
First, it's pretty well established that people have an instinctive preference for fairness. Kant observed it, psychologists study it, game theorists are baffled by it. It's perfectly natural for you to be disturbed by this.
(That doesn't mean you should try to stop it. It's not your job to manage them. It's not your responsibility to intervene in management-versus-workers conflict).
Some options.
1. Try looking at it from other persectives. Maybe they're losers at dead ends in their careers: don't envy them, pity them. Or maybe they're passively resisting an oppressive corporatized culture.
2. Join them. There will be plenty of times in your I.T. career where you're going to be snowed under with too-much work. Enjoy this breather while you've got it.
3. If you're not into goofing off, then take the same extra time as they do and use it for your own ends. Take an hour a day to do some studying, or read a classic book from Gutenberg, or teach yourself a new I.T. skill, or something else at your computer. You won't then be doing any more work than them, but you'll be appearing diligent to your bosses.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:54 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
First, it's pretty well established that people have an instinctive preference for fairness. Kant observed it, psychologists study it, game theorists are baffled by it. It's perfectly natural for you to be disturbed by this.
(That doesn't mean you should try to stop it. It's not your job to manage them. It's not your responsibility to intervene in management-versus-workers conflict).
Some options.
1. Try looking at it from other persectives. Maybe they're losers at dead ends in their careers: don't envy them, pity them. Or maybe they're passively resisting an oppressive corporatized culture.
2. Join them. There will be plenty of times in your I.T. career where you're going to be snowed under with too-much work. Enjoy this breather while you've got it.
3. If you're not into goofing off, then take the same extra time as they do and use it for your own ends. Take an hour a day to do some studying, or read a classic book from Gutenberg, or teach yourself a new I.T. skill, or something else at your computer. You won't then be doing any more work than them, but you'll be appearing diligent to your bosses.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:54 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
I have to tell you. If you are the third type of person. There are 2 other types of people you're going to interact with at the office:
1. the type of person who is totally indifferent to everyone else at the office (e.g. don't care)
2. the type of person who sees your type of a person as basically a threat to the offices well being. Be careful trying to mess with what other people have worked out -- you might bring a lot down on your head. If the worked are slacking off, likely so are your bosses and they want to keep it that way.
Basically, the solution is for you to figure out how to also work you job out in a way you like it. Then you won't care about how other people's jobs are. There is no clause in any contract that says all employees have to be treated equally outside of like harassment or discrimination (thank god).
posted by judge.mentok.the.mindtaker at 2:46 PM on May 6, 2008
1. the type of person who is totally indifferent to everyone else at the office (e.g. don't care)
2. the type of person who sees your type of a person as basically a threat to the offices well being. Be careful trying to mess with what other people have worked out -- you might bring a lot down on your head. If the worked are slacking off, likely so are your bosses and they want to keep it that way.
Basically, the solution is for you to figure out how to also work you job out in a way you like it. Then you won't care about how other people's jobs are. There is no clause in any contract that says all employees have to be treated equally outside of like harassment or discrimination (thank god).
posted by judge.mentok.the.mindtaker at 2:46 PM on May 6, 2008
IT is sometimes like the fire department - there is day to day work, but sometimes you need to pay guys for more hours than there is work for them, because sometimes something bad happens and you need extra manpower already on the payroll, available, and trained to take care of it.
So it may be that there is usually no need for them to put in a 40 hour week to get their normal workload done, they just need to be on staff and available for the full 40 hours (and more) when the server-crash/hacker/worm/virus/powerspike/outage shitstorm hits the fan.
In other words, what they are doing may be appropriate and correct.
It's also professional behaviour in some circles - a person's judgement is trusted as regards their work. If they think they need to put in extra hours, it is ok for them to work late. If they are not needed, it is ok for them to take a longer lunch, or leave a bit early. They are a considered a responsible adult who will get the job done as they see fit.
Working retail under a timeclock is a different work ethic.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:15 PM on May 6, 2008
So it may be that there is usually no need for them to put in a 40 hour week to get their normal workload done, they just need to be on staff and available for the full 40 hours (and more) when the server-crash/hacker/worm/virus/powerspike/outage shitstorm hits the fan.
In other words, what they are doing may be appropriate and correct.
It's also professional behaviour in some circles - a person's judgement is trusted as regards their work. If they think they need to put in extra hours, it is ok for them to work late. If they are not needed, it is ok for them to take a longer lunch, or leave a bit early. They are a considered a responsible adult who will get the job done as they see fit.
Working retail under a timeclock is a different work ethic.
posted by -harlequin- at 3:15 PM on May 6, 2008
I'd like to share a story from my student days, when I was called into the office for fighting. One of my schoolmates claimed one of the bathrooms as her own. No one could go in it. It was 'hers' and she petulantly blocked off the girls room door with her body. NOTHING I said could get her to move, and I had to go to the bathroom! I shoved her out of the way, and, of course, that's exactly the moment the building monitor came by. So, I sat in the office ABSOLUTELY FUMING about the injustice of it all. Why was I here when the stupid girl who was keeping people out of the bathroom got away scot free? I was just so angry, and I let the building monitor know how ridiculously unfair I thought it was.
"Why would you assume you're the only one being called aside?" she said. She was right. I was just not in a position to have all the information.
What you see as a lack of reaction could be any one of a number of things: confidentiality, flexibility, understanding...
It may be that your manager is in the process of (or has already) brought disciplinary actions against these other employees. Warnings don't come with a flashing blue light for the offender's desk. It's a confidential matter between manager and employee.
It may be that they're facing serious home or health issues, and your manager is offering them some flexibility as a very humane way of coping right now.
It may be that a flexible work schedule is a way of compensating an underpaid employee or a great performer without having any more money in the budget.
It may be that what you see as "hands-off" is really a results-oriented management style. As long as everyone's meeting their statistics and deadlines, no one cares how they get there.
Breathe. You don't know what personnel matters come between manager and employee behind closed doors. You're just not in a position to have all the information.
posted by Gable Oak at 4:27 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
"Why would you assume you're the only one being called aside?" she said. She was right. I was just not in a position to have all the information.
What you see as a lack of reaction could be any one of a number of things: confidentiality, flexibility, understanding...
It may be that your manager is in the process of (or has already) brought disciplinary actions against these other employees. Warnings don't come with a flashing blue light for the offender's desk. It's a confidential matter between manager and employee.
It may be that they're facing serious home or health issues, and your manager is offering them some flexibility as a very humane way of coping right now.
It may be that a flexible work schedule is a way of compensating an underpaid employee or a great performer without having any more money in the budget.
It may be that what you see as "hands-off" is really a results-oriented management style. As long as everyone's meeting their statistics and deadlines, no one cares how they get there.
Breathe. You don't know what personnel matters come between manager and employee behind closed doors. You're just not in a position to have all the information.
posted by Gable Oak at 4:27 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Do they get their work done? Are they motivated when they have stuff to do? If so, does it really matter?
There's really nothing you can do that won't alienate them. And bringing it up will cause problems that will ultimate annoy your management. Unless their truancy is affecting you, I'd just leave it as one of those lessons in learning to let go.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 5:14 PM on May 6, 2008
There's really nothing you can do that won't alienate them. And bringing it up will cause problems that will ultimate annoy your management. Unless their truancy is affecting you, I'd just leave it as one of those lessons in learning to let go.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 5:14 PM on May 6, 2008
You're jealous. You're seeing only the good things in their job, and comparing them to the crap things in yours. Ask for rotation to the other office.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 5:31 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by aeschenkarnos at 5:31 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
How old are they? Even as recently as ten years ago, I would find busy work if there was not real work to do. No longer: as I approach retirement, if there is no work I goof off ( not to the extent of 32 hours a week).
posted by francesca too at 5:55 PM on May 6, 2008
posted by francesca too at 5:55 PM on May 6, 2008
Yeah, what sort of IT? I do the same thing, I'm exempt (payed $X per month period), and expected to wake up at 2am and fix something (no extra pay, no overtime, no clock). A lot of our department is like this, you work 5 or 6 hour days and save up for the next 10 hour long "something's broken at 3am" session. Everybody comes in late, leaves early and takes long lunches... we also make up that time when shit breaks at 2am and we get called and have to work to fix it. If you work a regular 8 hour day you're fucked when you have to work an extra 8 hours in the middle of the night. It all balances out.
posted by zengargoyle at 8:36 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by zengargoyle at 8:36 PM on May 6, 2008 [1 favorite]
Best answer: wow, there are a lot of people who've commented on this who must fit into the category you've described. The "MYOB" mentality seems common among people who don't want you to think about what they're doing. I have a mentality where I always try to be worth more to the company I work for than I am paid.
There are always lazy people, and your only options, are to bring it to your superior's attention, or to ignore it. Both are frustrating, and have downsides.
posted by Kraki at 8:56 PM on May 6, 2008
There are always lazy people, and your only options, are to bring it to your superior's attention, or to ignore it. Both are frustrating, and have downsides.
posted by Kraki at 8:56 PM on May 6, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for the responses so far. I’ll address some things that were raised.
To the people that told me to MMOB / get over it: It would be ideal if I could put this entirely out of my mind but as I said in my post, I’m looking for tips on how to cope with this work environment until I leave in a few months. The question of why I can’t seem to ‘get over’ this is probably best suited for a therapist anyway.
I was going to include how I know that they’re coming in late and leaving early but it didn’t seem relevant. There are many signs….both of them mention it, their idle times on the chat program that we all use support it, and I’ve seen both of them driving into work at the same time as me (their start time is supposed to be half an hour before me). Trust me, I’m not imagining this.
Our team lead is a great guy but he is very much not suited to be in any sort of management position. He “inherited” the position about a year or so ago and has been very unhappy with it. If he was even somewhat approachable about issues like this, I would’ve talked to him already.
No, I’m not jealous. I worked over there on a special project a few months ago and I would maybe leave 15 minutes early on a Friday every so often but that was it. It’s just
not my style.
There is a lot of good stuff here and I’ll mark a few best answers. It’s all appreciated! Thanks again.
posted by Diskeater at 8:30 AM on May 7, 2008
To the people that told me to MMOB / get over it: It would be ideal if I could put this entirely out of my mind but as I said in my post, I’m looking for tips on how to cope with this work environment until I leave in a few months. The question of why I can’t seem to ‘get over’ this is probably best suited for a therapist anyway.
I was going to include how I know that they’re coming in late and leaving early but it didn’t seem relevant. There are many signs….both of them mention it, their idle times on the chat program that we all use support it, and I’ve seen both of them driving into work at the same time as me (their start time is supposed to be half an hour before me). Trust me, I’m not imagining this.
Our team lead is a great guy but he is very much not suited to be in any sort of management position. He “inherited” the position about a year or so ago and has been very unhappy with it. If he was even somewhat approachable about issues like this, I would’ve talked to him already.
No, I’m not jealous. I worked over there on a special project a few months ago and I would maybe leave 15 minutes early on a Friday every so often but that was it. It’s just
not my style.
There is a lot of good stuff here and I’ll mark a few best answers. It’s all appreciated! Thanks again.
posted by Diskeater at 8:30 AM on May 7, 2008
Seems like a good time for a variation on Corporate Bingo. Guess the exact time they will sign in to chat every day. If you guess right for a week, you win a fabulous prize of your choosing, like leaving 15 minutes early on Friday. Making a game of it will give you a reason other than annoyance to take note of their comings and goings.
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:55 AM on May 7, 2008
posted by SuperSquirrel at 8:55 AM on May 7, 2008
Since your position is short-term, don't sweat it too much. In your next job, look for a place that better fit your work style. An employee can not be more honest than his boss, so what you experience is par for a large, hierarchical organization. Find a place that has a flatter organization where your contribution can be recognized and rewarded. Ultimately, look into opportunities where you can be the boss or has no boss. Ideally, working for yourself is probably best.
posted by curiousZ at 5:27 PM on May 7, 2008
posted by curiousZ at 5:27 PM on May 7, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by parmanparman at 11:00 AM on May 6, 2008 [7 favorites]