Resume oops
March 27, 2008 1:37 PM Subscribe
Attorney job applicant left something off resume.
I started undergrad at School One, transferred for one quarter to School Two, transferred back to School One, completed most of my degree, dropped out, then three years later went to School Three and completed my degree after two more years (a lot of my credits didn't transfer). Then I went to law school. Then I started practicing on my own.
Now, nearly a decade after getting my JD, I've applied for another job. On my resume, I only listed my law school and School Three, figuring that at this point all anyone cares about is information related to my legal career. For instance, I didn't put anything about jobs prior to law school, because they have no bearing on my legal career.
But now I'm worried that I was wrong to leave School One and School Two off the resume. My grades at both were perfectly good and I have nothing to hide, except for my flakiness in transferring and dropping out--but honestly, I was mainly concerned with getting my resume to fit on one page and didn't think it mattered. I've been through two rounds of interviews and have reason to hope I will be one of the final candidates. If I do get the job, I have no intention of trying to hide this information--I mean, I met my spouse at School One, so it's going to come up in conversation. Should I bring it up now? Wait until they make an offer? Just leave it alone? Bonus points for specificity in how I should word it if I do have to bring it up.
I started undergrad at School One, transferred for one quarter to School Two, transferred back to School One, completed most of my degree, dropped out, then three years later went to School Three and completed my degree after two more years (a lot of my credits didn't transfer). Then I went to law school. Then I started practicing on my own.
Now, nearly a decade after getting my JD, I've applied for another job. On my resume, I only listed my law school and School Three, figuring that at this point all anyone cares about is information related to my legal career. For instance, I didn't put anything about jobs prior to law school, because they have no bearing on my legal career.
But now I'm worried that I was wrong to leave School One and School Two off the resume. My grades at both were perfectly good and I have nothing to hide, except for my flakiness in transferring and dropping out--but honestly, I was mainly concerned with getting my resume to fit on one page and didn't think it mattered. I've been through two rounds of interviews and have reason to hope I will be one of the final candidates. If I do get the job, I have no intention of trying to hide this information--I mean, I met my spouse at School One, so it's going to come up in conversation. Should I bring it up now? Wait until they make an offer? Just leave it alone? Bonus points for specificity in how I should word it if I do have to bring it up.
Really, I can't imagine that anyone would care. The point of listing your school is to list your credentials - so if your resume says "School Three, B.A. Awarded May 19XX", then there's nothing dishonest about that. I'm sure you've left jobs off your resume, too - there's only so much information you can fit on a page, right? Putting lies on a resume is a big problem... but leaving off irrelevant information is both honest and necessary.
posted by moxiedoll at 1:49 PM on March 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by moxiedoll at 1:49 PM on March 27, 2008 [3 favorites]
Unless your application specifically requested detailed education info, then the only place that counts is where you got your diploma.
I think you're way more worried about this than you should be, which is to say not at all. In the unbelievably small chance anyone would start looking at your college transcripts, you've got nothing to hide- people transfer/take time off all the time for "personal reasons", and you spent most of your time at the place you graduated from.
posted by mkultra at 1:49 PM on March 27, 2008
I think you're way more worried about this than you should be, which is to say not at all. In the unbelievably small chance anyone would start looking at your college transcripts, you've got nothing to hide- people transfer/take time off all the time for "personal reasons", and you spent most of your time at the place you graduated from.
posted by mkultra at 1:49 PM on March 27, 2008
And regarding dates: standard practice is just to put the date of graduation.
posted by mkultra at 1:51 PM on March 27, 2008
posted by mkultra at 1:51 PM on March 27, 2008
Just leave it alone and I wouldn't worry about it either. That is pretty minor stuff.
posted by ND¢ at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2008
posted by ND¢ at 1:53 PM on March 27, 2008
You just want to list your degrees and when you got them, unless "school one" is Harvard, MIT, or Stanford.
posted by thomas144 at 1:58 PM on March 27, 2008
posted by thomas144 at 1:58 PM on March 27, 2008
You have 10 years experience, your schooling is only going to get a cursory glance. Generally you only list the places where you got an actual qualification (unless its going to leave large, unusual gaps in your resume)
At this point in your career, the fact that you dropped out of 2 schools before getting your degree and going to law school is no more relevant than the paper round you might have had as a kid (seriously, I've seen that on a resume)
posted by missmagenta at 2:15 PM on March 27, 2008
At this point in your career, the fact that you dropped out of 2 schools before getting your degree and going to law school is no more relevant than the paper round you might have had as a kid (seriously, I've seen that on a resume)
posted by missmagenta at 2:15 PM on March 27, 2008
no use in going back and creating waves.
you're going to look disingenuous if you have to "revise" your resume out of what will appear to be guilt.
it's too late to go back and try and get a "do-over".
posted by Mr_Crazyhorse at 2:20 PM on March 27, 2008
you're going to look disingenuous if you have to "revise" your resume out of what will appear to be guilt.
it's too late to go back and try and get a "do-over".
posted by Mr_Crazyhorse at 2:20 PM on March 27, 2008
First, out of curiosity why is your spouse going to be discussed during the hiring/interviewing conversations?
Second, the firm will probably do a background check. For the background check, you will likely be asked to fill out a formal application that says - List ALL schools, jobs, convictions, etc. In that document you need all schools listed. For the resume, the degree granting school is fine and probably the standard. (I don't remember seeing resumes with school transferring noted.)
An extra piece of advice, be absolutely correct on that application. We've had candidates fail the background check because they listed dates incorrectly. When the screening firm did the research, the graduation dates or employment dates didn't match. The hiring manager probably does not know why the candidate failed the background check, just that they did.
Short answer - you're fine. Good luck.
posted by 26.2 at 3:09 PM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Second, the firm will probably do a background check. For the background check, you will likely be asked to fill out a formal application that says - List ALL schools, jobs, convictions, etc. In that document you need all schools listed. For the resume, the degree granting school is fine and probably the standard. (I don't remember seeing resumes with school transferring noted.)
An extra piece of advice, be absolutely correct on that application. We've had candidates fail the background check because they listed dates incorrectly. When the screening firm did the research, the graduation dates or employment dates didn't match. The hiring manager probably does not know why the candidate failed the background check, just that they did.
Short answer - you're fine. Good luck.
posted by 26.2 at 3:09 PM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Your resume should read: BA, Widgetomics, June 2002, Three State University
Three State granted you the degree because it assessed Schools 1 & 2 and accepted the credits it found to be comparable to its own. You meet the letter and spirit of the law. You can mention School 1 with enthusiasm.
At some point you may be asked to fill out an application, and will have to give dates of attendance, and you should be accurate.
posted by theora55 at 3:10 PM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
Three State granted you the degree because it assessed Schools 1 & 2 and accepted the credits it found to be comparable to its own. You meet the letter and spirit of the law. You can mention School 1 with enthusiasm.
At some point you may be asked to fill out an application, and will have to give dates of attendance, and you should be accurate.
posted by theora55 at 3:10 PM on March 27, 2008 [1 favorite]
My wife did something similar to you, where she started at one uni, changed to another, and then eventually went back to the first uni to complete her original degree (with credits from uni 2).
When we were putting her resume together for part-time job applications during her studies, we always felt compelled to do what you've suggested and list all the school's that she had attended or was attending. It was messy and long-winded, but we wanted to try and explain some of the gaps in her resume.
Having said that, now that she's finished, she only lists the degree-granting institution. As many others have said, this is because she now just lists her graduation date (not the study dates) and it is totally valid for her to say:
Dec, 2007: Bachelor of blah, blah blah University
without having to go into all the details of how she actually got her degree. I'm not sure how this helps with the gaps, but it just seems so much tidier and as everyone said, is perfectly honest. If anyone asks, I'm sure she'd be happy to say "Yeah, I had a little diversion into Psych when I did my undergrad studies, but I eventually came back and finished Sociology" (it helps they are in the same general area!), but I don't think it needs to be listed on the application.
posted by ranglin at 3:27 PM on March 27, 2008
When we were putting her resume together for part-time job applications during her studies, we always felt compelled to do what you've suggested and list all the school's that she had attended or was attending. It was messy and long-winded, but we wanted to try and explain some of the gaps in her resume.
Having said that, now that she's finished, she only lists the degree-granting institution. As many others have said, this is because she now just lists her graduation date (not the study dates) and it is totally valid for her to say:
Dec, 2007: Bachelor of blah, blah blah University
without having to go into all the details of how she actually got her degree. I'm not sure how this helps with the gaps, but it just seems so much tidier and as everyone said, is perfectly honest. If anyone asks, I'm sure she'd be happy to say "Yeah, I had a little diversion into Psych when I did my undergrad studies, but I eventually came back and finished Sociology" (it helps they are in the same general area!), but I don't think it needs to be listed on the application.
posted by ranglin at 3:27 PM on March 27, 2008
I had somewhat similar issue, but a little bit different. I transferred law schools, mostly because I hated Baltimore. The last time I did a job search I was five years out of school, but interviewers still asked about it. I always hated putting it on my resume because I ended up wasting time on talking about how much living in inner city Baltimore sucks instead of talking about what a stellar candidate I am.
I asked my career services office whether I could take school 1 off and they insisted that for ethical reasons I had to leave it on. I I've heard about lawyers getting in trouble with the bar for misrepresenting things on their resumes, but that's usually something serious like lying about your GPA. Still, I chose the conservative approach because I don't every want any problems with the bar.
I guess this a long-winded way of saying have you asked your career services office or governing bar association what their recommendation would be?
posted by bananafish at 3:29 PM on March 27, 2008
I asked my career services office whether I could take school 1 off and they insisted that for ethical reasons I had to leave it on. I I've heard about lawyers getting in trouble with the bar for misrepresenting things on their resumes, but that's usually something serious like lying about your GPA. Still, I chose the conservative approach because I don't every want any problems with the bar.
I guess this a long-winded way of saying have you asked your career services office or governing bar association what their recommendation would be?
posted by bananafish at 3:29 PM on March 27, 2008
I'm just n-thing everybody: I attended 3 colleges as an undergrad, and used to list all three on my resume. Now it just says, "Big 10 U, A.B. in blah blah blah, Date, with High Distinction." As I got older and had more job experience, it seemed like a waste of space to mention that I did my freshman year at a little commuter college outside Detroit, and I'm pretty sure nobody cares since Big 10 U applied the credits to my degree.
posted by not that girl at 5:18 PM on March 27, 2008
posted by not that girl at 5:18 PM on March 27, 2008
From one attorney to another:
After TEN YEARS (actually 13 years since you spent an additional 3 years in law school), no one, absolutely no one, is going to look twice at your undergraduate history. Moreover, that should be Clue #1 to turn down any offer and run as fast as you can from any law firm that acts as if it cares more about your undergraduate history than what you've actually done in the last 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 years as a practicing attorney. If they care that much about 13 years in the past, then they're probably not the most progressive/forward thinking firm on the block.
posted by webhund at 7:02 PM on March 27, 2008
After TEN YEARS (actually 13 years since you spent an additional 3 years in law school), no one, absolutely no one, is going to look twice at your undergraduate history. Moreover, that should be Clue #1 to turn down any offer and run as fast as you can from any law firm that acts as if it cares more about your undergraduate history than what you've actually done in the last 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10 years as a practicing attorney. If they care that much about 13 years in the past, then they're probably not the most progressive/forward thinking firm on the block.
posted by webhund at 7:02 PM on March 27, 2008
On my CV I have listed "MSc (Physiology) - conferred by xx University, April 2002", with no mention of actually doing the first half of it at yy University in the mid nineties then getting sick and dropping out for a few years, then going back and taking twice as long as I should to complete it and also getting worse grades in that second half and generally making a mess of things. I was technically enrolled for five years to do a two year degree (was working on it for three) and handed in my thesis in late 2001, all of which gets glossed over nicely by the conferral date which corresponds to my actual graduation ceremony.
This has never mattered because what is listed is the truth. I really do have that degree from that University given at that time. When asked directly in job interviews I've happily mentioned that the degree was split and how long I was actively working on it, no one bats an eyelid because it's just so common. And now that I have further work experience and advanced study no one even asks about the details of either my undergrad or my MSc.
Assuming that you didn't explicitly say you were at School Three for all that time and just put something like what degree they gave you and when then I think you're good. After all that is the truth, you did earn that degree. And given that you have a whole extra, specialised degree by now plus years of work experience I'd be surprised if it even came up in an interview. If it does then just tell the truth, your undergrad degree includes cross credits from other schools, and don't go into any real details about why. They shouldn't probe.
You're not hiding anything as such, just not giving more details than is necessary. As long as you give those details if asked or if it becomes relevant then all should be fine.
posted by shelleycat at 9:58 PM on March 27, 2008
This has never mattered because what is listed is the truth. I really do have that degree from that University given at that time. When asked directly in job interviews I've happily mentioned that the degree was split and how long I was actively working on it, no one bats an eyelid because it's just so common. And now that I have further work experience and advanced study no one even asks about the details of either my undergrad or my MSc.
Assuming that you didn't explicitly say you were at School Three for all that time and just put something like what degree they gave you and when then I think you're good. After all that is the truth, you did earn that degree. And given that you have a whole extra, specialised degree by now plus years of work experience I'd be surprised if it even came up in an interview. If it does then just tell the truth, your undergrad degree includes cross credits from other schools, and don't go into any real details about why. They shouldn't probe.
You're not hiding anything as such, just not giving more details than is necessary. As long as you give those details if asked or if it becomes relevant then all should be fine.
posted by shelleycat at 9:58 PM on March 27, 2008
dude, you're applying as a LAWYER
Since when did honesty come into the equation?
There are few greater sins a lawyer can commit than an act of dishonesty. Certainly, lawyers may often be perceived as having a flexible relationship with the truth, but this seems to be based in large part on misperceptions about the nature of advocacy. Lying for personal gain -- particularly if it rises to the level of fraud -- is pretty much the fastest way to losing one's license to practice law.
That said, there is nothing even remotely dishonest about listing only the school from which you received your degree (unless you somehow represent that this was your only school).
One more comment on the comments: Even 10 years out of law school, the school still matters. it is true, however, that no one is likely to care about you undergraduate school.
posted by lionelhutz5 at 10:29 PM on March 27, 2008
Since when did honesty come into the equation?
There are few greater sins a lawyer can commit than an act of dishonesty. Certainly, lawyers may often be perceived as having a flexible relationship with the truth, but this seems to be based in large part on misperceptions about the nature of advocacy. Lying for personal gain -- particularly if it rises to the level of fraud -- is pretty much the fastest way to losing one's license to practice law.
That said, there is nothing even remotely dishonest about listing only the school from which you received your degree (unless you somehow represent that this was your only school).
One more comment on the comments: Even 10 years out of law school, the school still matters. it is true, however, that no one is likely to care about you undergraduate school.
posted by lionelhutz5 at 10:29 PM on March 27, 2008
It is not a problem only to list the undergrad school from which you graduated and the graduation year. However, if you list your attendance years and/or your GPA, you do need to give the full history because anything else would be misleading.
posted by MattD at 5:46 AM on March 28, 2008
posted by MattD at 5:46 AM on March 28, 2008
According to the career services people at my law school, once you've actually gotten your degree from school X, you don't have to list any of the schools you transferred from, however if you are listing your GPA I think it gets messier.
posted by whoaali at 7:08 PM on April 3, 2008
posted by whoaali at 7:08 PM on April 3, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
School 3
1990-1994
BA in Underwater Basketweaving
...when in fact you didn't attend that school all four of those years, you've got yourself a problem. On the other hand, if your resume read:
School 3
BA in Underwater Basketweaving
you're good - nothing dishonest there. If there's a formal "job application" that comes later in the process you may want to disclose the other schools. Bottom line is that just because you transferred isn't really that big of a deal, and I wouldn't sweat the fact that you didn't list them.
posted by deadmessenger at 1:47 PM on March 27, 2008