Sorry sir, this table is Reserved.
February 13, 2008 7:51 PM Subscribe
Canadian Military Reserve: Can any current or past reservists (Army, Navy, Air) give me a rundown of what it's like from joining, training, to practicing ? Is the reserve the place for me ?
My education/training so far has been almost completely academic, and the combination of training (athletic conditioning, trades/technical, tactical, firearms, discipline, survival, teamwork) the military offers is something I find very interesting. It seems training like that would make me a more rounded and capable person. I also train in martial arts, so part of my interest stems from there.
I specified the reserve as I currently have an engineering career I don't care to abandon, and I don't wish to become a fulltime soldier, or fight in wars, but I do desire the type of training and experience the military provides.
Is the reserve the place for the training I want, or am I better off getting training/studying those areas elsewhere ? All comments welcome, but I would especially like to hear from Canadians in the reserve forces.
My education/training so far has been almost completely academic, and the combination of training (athletic conditioning, trades/technical, tactical, firearms, discipline, survival, teamwork) the military offers is something I find very interesting. It seems training like that would make me a more rounded and capable person. I also train in martial arts, so part of my interest stems from there.
I specified the reserve as I currently have an engineering career I don't care to abandon, and I don't wish to become a fulltime soldier, or fight in wars, but I do desire the type of training and experience the military provides.
Is the reserve the place for the training I want, or am I better off getting training/studying those areas elsewhere ? All comments welcome, but I would especially like to hear from Canadians in the reserve forces.
blaneyphoto: "and I don't wish to become a fulltime soldier, or fight in wars,"
The Canadian military may be different from the US, but if it isn't - you should fully expect to serve full time at some point and definitely fight in wars if called - that is after all, why the military exists.
Please don't join the military without being willing to fight. Its not the Boy Scouts or Outward Bound. Do it to serve and protect your country. Otherwise, I think you may be better off looking at a NOLS course or something similar.
Uh, Blaneyphoto, you've heard of Canada, right? There is a significantly different military history and culture here. We really don't do a whole lot of that warring stuff.
Now. Oh boy.
Most of my friends don't know this -- and none would ever believe it -- but I went through Basic at CFB Cornwallis (now defunct) just about 15 years ago as a Navy reservist. Yes, I was an Ordinary Seaman. (Chuckle if you must.) The reason this is so high-larious is really apparent if you spend any time around me. Truth be told I think I joined because I dug the fancy uniforms. I hated almost everything about the job, though, and eventually quit.
So: I am biased. But I think if you don't want a career in the military and you already have a career you like it's unlikely going through the whole rigamarole would really tickle your fancy. ESPECIALLY as a grown adult, not a malleable youth. I was only 18 and was into the whole schtick just for kicks but holy moly -- I hated the abuse. I have an anti-authoritarian streak a mile wide -- or so it became apparent. I hated the panic and stress of being continually screamed at. I hated the "hurry up and wait" feeling of most of our days. I hated the blisters from my boots, I hated the food (I am a vegetarian so cuisine for me was salad, white rice and/or potatoes), I hated marching right after eating and so getting cramps, I hated never getting more than a couple of hours of sleep and I hated how everyone was unhappy and homesick too.
When I think back on it, I think it is the most effing hilarious and bizarre and out-of-left-field thing I've ever done in a life of doing weird things. It didn't do any lasting damage. It was a lark and I have some funny stories and a tonne of weird and wonderful memories from it. It was... so... interesting. But I have no frigging idea what possessed me to go through with it, and I know beyond doubt that I would never, ever do it again. As a full-fledged adult, the degrading, demoralising treatment would just be fucking intolerable to me. I am basically a pacifist, and militarism is pretty repugnant in my mind. (My ethical and political stance hadn't fully formed by that time.)
Incidentally, before signing anywhere I made sure that there was no way I could be forced into war. What the Cox'n I was dealing with told me was, "The only way you could be forced into combat is if another country attacked Canada's shores." I figured I was pretty safe if that was the case.
Now. The way Basic Training is administered these days is, AFAIK, somewhat different. At the time I enrolled, recruits from all over the country were sent to CFB Cornwallis, which was designated a "recruit school". Now the base has been decommissioned and made into an industrial park, and I believe that recruits are sent to one of several regional centres such as St-Jean-sur-Richelieu in Quebec, Borden in Ontario, Comox in BC... (This may depend also on whether you are army, navy or air. FWIW my course was all navy but I believe they do mix. I can't tell you must about that aspect; I'm sure it's fairly easy to get info on how Basic is administered on the Canadian Forces Web site though.)
If you decide to go through with it, here's some advice to you:
1. Get into shape before your course starts. Trust me. It will be physically gruelling if you don't. You may see people pass out mid-march. Particularly in hot weather, which leads me to advise...
2. Go in spring or fall if possible. It depends where you are located geographically, of course, but summer in the Digby Basin was thick with humidity and the skies turned on a dime.
3. Accept that you will be screamed at. Nothing you do will be right. Be humble. Keep your head down. Don't be a smart aleck.
4. The other recruits are all you have. They are the only people who can possibly understand what you're experiencing. Embrace them.
5. Don't rat when you catch couples having sex whilst you're on fire piquet. Everybody needs love. Just keep walking.
6. Take pictures of yourself posing with your weapon whilst in your undies. Priceless.
posted by loiseau at 8:30 PM on February 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
The Canadian military may be different from the US, but if it isn't - you should fully expect to serve full time at some point and definitely fight in wars if called - that is after all, why the military exists.
Please don't join the military without being willing to fight. Its not the Boy Scouts or Outward Bound. Do it to serve and protect your country. Otherwise, I think you may be better off looking at a NOLS course or something similar.
Uh, Blaneyphoto, you've heard of Canada, right? There is a significantly different military history and culture here. We really don't do a whole lot of that warring stuff.
Now. Oh boy.
Most of my friends don't know this -- and none would ever believe it -- but I went through Basic at CFB Cornwallis (now defunct) just about 15 years ago as a Navy reservist. Yes, I was an Ordinary Seaman. (Chuckle if you must.) The reason this is so high-larious is really apparent if you spend any time around me. Truth be told I think I joined because I dug the fancy uniforms. I hated almost everything about the job, though, and eventually quit.
So: I am biased. But I think if you don't want a career in the military and you already have a career you like it's unlikely going through the whole rigamarole would really tickle your fancy. ESPECIALLY as a grown adult, not a malleable youth. I was only 18 and was into the whole schtick just for kicks but holy moly -- I hated the abuse. I have an anti-authoritarian streak a mile wide -- or so it became apparent. I hated the panic and stress of being continually screamed at. I hated the "hurry up and wait" feeling of most of our days. I hated the blisters from my boots, I hated the food (I am a vegetarian so cuisine for me was salad, white rice and/or potatoes), I hated marching right after eating and so getting cramps, I hated never getting more than a couple of hours of sleep and I hated how everyone was unhappy and homesick too.
When I think back on it, I think it is the most effing hilarious and bizarre and out-of-left-field thing I've ever done in a life of doing weird things. It didn't do any lasting damage. It was a lark and I have some funny stories and a tonne of weird and wonderful memories from it. It was... so... interesting. But I have no frigging idea what possessed me to go through with it, and I know beyond doubt that I would never, ever do it again. As a full-fledged adult, the degrading, demoralising treatment would just be fucking intolerable to me. I am basically a pacifist, and militarism is pretty repugnant in my mind. (My ethical and political stance hadn't fully formed by that time.)
Incidentally, before signing anywhere I made sure that there was no way I could be forced into war. What the Cox'n I was dealing with told me was, "The only way you could be forced into combat is if another country attacked Canada's shores." I figured I was pretty safe if that was the case.
Now. The way Basic Training is administered these days is, AFAIK, somewhat different. At the time I enrolled, recruits from all over the country were sent to CFB Cornwallis, which was designated a "recruit school". Now the base has been decommissioned and made into an industrial park, and I believe that recruits are sent to one of several regional centres such as St-Jean-sur-Richelieu in Quebec, Borden in Ontario, Comox in BC... (This may depend also on whether you are army, navy or air. FWIW my course was all navy but I believe they do mix. I can't tell you must about that aspect; I'm sure it's fairly easy to get info on how Basic is administered on the Canadian Forces Web site though.)
If you decide to go through with it, here's some advice to you:
1. Get into shape before your course starts. Trust me. It will be physically gruelling if you don't. You may see people pass out mid-march. Particularly in hot weather, which leads me to advise...
2. Go in spring or fall if possible. It depends where you are located geographically, of course, but summer in the Digby Basin was thick with humidity and the skies turned on a dime.
3. Accept that you will be screamed at. Nothing you do will be right. Be humble. Keep your head down. Don't be a smart aleck.
4. The other recruits are all you have. They are the only people who can possibly understand what you're experiencing. Embrace them.
5. Don't rat when you catch couples having sex whilst you're on fire piquet. Everybody needs love. Just keep walking.
6. Take pictures of yourself posing with your weapon whilst in your undies. Priceless.
posted by loiseau at 8:30 PM on February 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
20% of reserve force could see combat in Afghanistan by 2009. "All soldiers, no matter what their origins are, are all trained to the same standards," [Defence Minister] O'Connor said. "We put the same effort in, with the same cost, so from my point of view, it makes no difference whether you're regular or reserve."
Granted, that article is a year old, but there's no reason to think that as a reservist you won't end up in Afghanistan. Don't sign up if that's completely unacceptable.
posted by mendel at 8:43 PM on February 13, 2008
Granted, that article is a year old, but there's no reason to think that as a reservist you won't end up in Afghanistan. Don't sign up if that's completely unacceptable.
posted by mendel at 8:43 PM on February 13, 2008
Best answer: Full disclosure: Spent seven years in the army reserves of the Canadian Forces, including a chunk of full time (both class BA and Class C) work, as a clerk and as an armoured crewman. I've taught recruit courses and trades courses on everything from how to throw a grenade to how to use a radio to how to shoot a rocket launcher to how to back up a jeep with a trailer attached to it.
Here's what I can tell you:
1. The reserves are a great job when you're a student. It is very student oriented, with work concentrated mostly to the odd weekend and summer periods. Whenever I told someone that I had to study for an exam it was never an issue. Never. A lot of people leave when they are done school, you'll see that a lot of the more senior guys are teachers in real life.
2. The official line, and the one that you MUST consider is that once you sign up, they can send your ass anywhere they want, for however long, and even after you leave the reserves (even if you never even completed your recruit course) they can still get you no questions asked up to five years later.
The reality of the situation is that this doesn't happen (in Canada). Sure the regular force is a bit strained, but they aren't anywhere near the point of being maxed out, and the reservists who make up about 10% of the 2xxx people serving overseas are all volunteers, with plenty of other reservists who'd gladly fill in any additional openings. But that doesn't mean things can't change on a dime... ask any yank who joined the national guard since the late 90s.
You want my honest opinion: it's a calculated risk, and the likelihood of you being marched out against your will is slim indeed, but if you're not willing to serve to the full extent of what service means, then I sure as hell wouldn't want you sharing my trench.
3. Martial arts is good when you're convincing the recruiting officer, but you probably will never get to use it once they sign you up. The only people who get training in hand to hand combat are infantry, or people who do dog and pony shows in the summer.
4. The process: An army recruit course is either several weeks solid in the summer, or (more likely) about 15 weekends starting in the winter leading up to summer, with a week or a few days in the field/firing ranges/etc. near the end. The recruit course has changed since I did it, but you learn the following:
-drill (you know, marching. left, right, left, right, repeat ad infinitum
-first aid
-how to use a radio
-how to maintain and fire a rifle (C-7, similar to an M-16)
-field craft (how to dig a trench, how to use a compass, how to move in a platoon)
That's most of it. You'll also do a lot of pushups, be shout at a lot, get a lack of sleep and become good friends with the people in your platoon. You'll also know before your recruit course what trade you're taking. Upon completion of your recruit course you'll do your trade course, usually in the summer. The length of the course varies depending on what you're learning, but for a clerk it's 2 weeks, for infantry, armour, artillery, engineers it's about 7 weeks.
Perks: Well, you get paid. They also will cover up to 50% of your tuition while you're in school, which is pretty sweet. When you're on a course your room and board are taken care of, and you're so damn busy you'll never have a chance to spend that paycheck.
All of the above is describing if you enroll as an non-commissioned member (e.g. a private). If you're doing any university and you've been active in sports teams then I STRONGLY recommend you enroll as an officer.
This is all just general info, ask me some specific questions or email me and I'll be happy to explain more, in details.
posted by furtive at 8:55 PM on February 13, 2008
Here's what I can tell you:
1. The reserves are a great job when you're a student. It is very student oriented, with work concentrated mostly to the odd weekend and summer periods. Whenever I told someone that I had to study for an exam it was never an issue. Never. A lot of people leave when they are done school, you'll see that a lot of the more senior guys are teachers in real life.
2. The official line, and the one that you MUST consider is that once you sign up, they can send your ass anywhere they want, for however long, and even after you leave the reserves (even if you never even completed your recruit course) they can still get you no questions asked up to five years later.
The reality of the situation is that this doesn't happen (in Canada). Sure the regular force is a bit strained, but they aren't anywhere near the point of being maxed out, and the reservists who make up about 10% of the 2xxx people serving overseas are all volunteers, with plenty of other reservists who'd gladly fill in any additional openings. But that doesn't mean things can't change on a dime... ask any yank who joined the national guard since the late 90s.
You want my honest opinion: it's a calculated risk, and the likelihood of you being marched out against your will is slim indeed, but if you're not willing to serve to the full extent of what service means, then I sure as hell wouldn't want you sharing my trench.
3. Martial arts is good when you're convincing the recruiting officer, but you probably will never get to use it once they sign you up. The only people who get training in hand to hand combat are infantry, or people who do dog and pony shows in the summer.
4. The process: An army recruit course is either several weeks solid in the summer, or (more likely) about 15 weekends starting in the winter leading up to summer, with a week or a few days in the field/firing ranges/etc. near the end. The recruit course has changed since I did it, but you learn the following:
-drill (you know, marching. left, right, left, right, repeat ad infinitum
-first aid
-how to use a radio
-how to maintain and fire a rifle (C-7, similar to an M-16)
-field craft (how to dig a trench, how to use a compass, how to move in a platoon)
That's most of it. You'll also do a lot of pushups, be shout at a lot, get a lack of sleep and become good friends with the people in your platoon. You'll also know before your recruit course what trade you're taking. Upon completion of your recruit course you'll do your trade course, usually in the summer. The length of the course varies depending on what you're learning, but for a clerk it's 2 weeks, for infantry, armour, artillery, engineers it's about 7 weeks.
Perks: Well, you get paid. They also will cover up to 50% of your tuition while you're in school, which is pretty sweet. When you're on a course your room and board are taken care of, and you're so damn busy you'll never have a chance to spend that paycheck.
All of the above is describing if you enroll as an non-commissioned member (e.g. a private). If you're doing any university and you've been active in sports teams then I STRONGLY recommend you enroll as an officer.
This is all just general info, ask me some specific questions or email me and I'll be happy to explain more, in details.
posted by furtive at 8:55 PM on February 13, 2008
"All soldiers, no matter what their origins are, are all trained to the same standards," [Defence Minister] O'Connor said.
Hah! He was in the CF when they tried the total force and that didn't work out so well, did it? How many people who switched from reserve to reg force had to redo their JLC or SLC? How many days difference were there between reg force and reserve courses?
The only time a reservist gets the same training as a reg force is when they are doing the six months leading up to an operational deployment.
posted by furtive at 9:05 PM on February 13, 2008
Hah! He was in the CF when they tried the total force and that didn't work out so well, did it? How many people who switched from reserve to reg force had to redo their JLC or SLC? How many days difference were there between reg force and reserve courses?
The only time a reservist gets the same training as a reg force is when they are doing the six months leading up to an operational deployment.
posted by furtive at 9:05 PM on February 13, 2008
Oh, I forgot to mention, I loved my time in the reserves. I consider myself a better person because of it, and it has helped me in so many ways. But there were times when I hated it, when I was absolutely miserable, to the point where I contemplated hurting myself just to get out. I was able to overcome those challenges, and maybe you will too.
There is no doubt that I have not done anything as exciting as what I did while in the reserves. I miss so many aspects of it. I miss being in the middle of nowhere, under a night full of starts, with just a mission in my head and knowing that I can put 100% faith in the guys around me, and that I can respond in kind. I miss being a leader, sharing knowledge and having people look up to me. I miss sitting in a tank, but I don't miss cold metal or the smell of diesel.
Oh, I should be clear, I never went overseas, but went across Canada. I'm physically and mentally fit, but I still had intense dreams about being in the army for a good five years after I left. Also, my ears ring, ring and ring some more, and when I had problems with my back at age 30, the guys looking at my X-rays were pretty sure a lot of the damage was from my time in the military.
posted by furtive at 9:19 PM on February 13, 2008
There is no doubt that I have not done anything as exciting as what I did while in the reserves. I miss so many aspects of it. I miss being in the middle of nowhere, under a night full of starts, with just a mission in my head and knowing that I can put 100% faith in the guys around me, and that I can respond in kind. I miss being a leader, sharing knowledge and having people look up to me. I miss sitting in a tank, but I don't miss cold metal or the smell of diesel.
Oh, I should be clear, I never went overseas, but went across Canada. I'm physically and mentally fit, but I still had intense dreams about being in the army for a good five years after I left. Also, my ears ring, ring and ring some more, and when I had problems with my back at age 30, the guys looking at my X-rays were pretty sure a lot of the damage was from my time in the military.
posted by furtive at 9:19 PM on February 13, 2008
I had a roommate who did this, and last I heard, this was his full time job. However, he made plenty of contacts in other fields - finance, sales, engineering etc, so he could have moved on since then.
However, he was in the officer training program, (he had been at military college previously and flunked out), and recommended to me if I wanted to do such a thing was to do at least a year of basic, then apply for the officer training. Needless to say, my interest was temporary.
He was infantry, btw.
posted by Chuckles McLaughy du Haha, the depressed clown at 7:25 AM on February 14, 2008
However, he was in the officer training program, (he had been at military college previously and flunked out), and recommended to me if I wanted to do such a thing was to do at least a year of basic, then apply for the officer training. Needless to say, my interest was temporary.
He was infantry, btw.
posted by Chuckles McLaughy du Haha, the depressed clown at 7:25 AM on February 14, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for all the thoughtful comments so far.
"if you're not willing to serve to the full extent of what service means, then I sure as hell wouldn't want you sharing my trench."
This is really the one thing I would need to give some serious thought if I were to join. I think serving your country is a noble cause, but the possibility the government could throw me into a situation I don't agree with (like if Canada suddenly said, "Everyone's going to Iraq!") is a red flag for me.
Sometimes I think I could just study each subject separately (take outdoors/rescue courses, trades, leadership, and firearms courses) but I still can't think of anywhere that integrates these skills and more in a tighter fashion. Plus all of it is stress tested.
I have a highschool friend who joined the Army and served some missions in Afghanistan. As far as my (casual) conversations with him have gone, being sent there is completely voluntary. I got the impression that there is a lot more choice in where you can be assigned, in comparison with the US Army.
posted by pickingoutathermos at 4:32 PM on February 16, 2008
"if you're not willing to serve to the full extent of what service means, then I sure as hell wouldn't want you sharing my trench."
This is really the one thing I would need to give some serious thought if I were to join. I think serving your country is a noble cause, but the possibility the government could throw me into a situation I don't agree with (like if Canada suddenly said, "Everyone's going to Iraq!") is a red flag for me.
Sometimes I think I could just study each subject separately (take outdoors/rescue courses, trades, leadership, and firearms courses) but I still can't think of anywhere that integrates these skills and more in a tighter fashion. Plus all of it is stress tested.
I have a highschool friend who joined the Army and served some missions in Afghanistan. As far as my (casual) conversations with him have gone, being sent there is completely voluntary. I got the impression that there is a lot more choice in where you can be assigned, in comparison with the US Army.
posted by pickingoutathermos at 4:32 PM on February 16, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
The Canadian military may be different from the US, but if it isn't - you should fully expect to serve full time at some point and definitely fight in wars if called - that is after all, why the military exists.
Please don't join the military without being willing to fight. Its not the Boy Scouts or Outward Bound. Do it to serve and protect your country. Otherwise, I think you may be better off looking at a NOLS course or something similar.
posted by blaneyphoto at 8:13 PM on February 13, 2008