Welcome to the worst day of your life
September 19, 2007 11:34 AM Subscribe
I never thought I would be writing this. After almost five years together, my girlfriend told me that she's not sure if she wants to continue our relationship.
We've gone though a rough patch in the last six months - mostly because I quit a job I hated without having something to fall back on (foolish, I know) - but we're getting back on our feet financially and I've been doing my best to make home life pleasant. I'm affectionate, caring, and I love her more than I love anything in my life. I never proposed to her and I see now that it was a mistake to drag it out like that, but I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions. I never wanted to be with another woman, and I can't imagine ever being with anyone else.
I don't know what happened, and I don't know how to deal with it. I don't think she's made up her mind yet, and I don't want to drive her away with my grief. I don't want to bother her, but I want her to know that I will do literally anything to make our relationship work. We live together in a house that we own and it's really hard to give someone space when you share your living space that intimately. I know you can't make someone love you if they don't, but how can I give her the physical and emotional space she needs without seeming like I'm not still there for her any time she needs me?
If you want to share anonymously, you can email me at youcantmakesomeoneloveyou@gmail.com.
We've gone though a rough patch in the last six months - mostly because I quit a job I hated without having something to fall back on (foolish, I know) - but we're getting back on our feet financially and I've been doing my best to make home life pleasant. I'm affectionate, caring, and I love her more than I love anything in my life. I never proposed to her and I see now that it was a mistake to drag it out like that, but I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions. I never wanted to be with another woman, and I can't imagine ever being with anyone else.
I don't know what happened, and I don't know how to deal with it. I don't think she's made up her mind yet, and I don't want to drive her away with my grief. I don't want to bother her, but I want her to know that I will do literally anything to make our relationship work. We live together in a house that we own and it's really hard to give someone space when you share your living space that intimately. I know you can't make someone love you if they don't, but how can I give her the physical and emotional space she needs without seeming like I'm not still there for her any time she needs me?
If you want to share anonymously, you can email me at youcantmakesomeoneloveyou@gmail.com.
This sort of happened to me, and we never talked it out. I just accepted her decision, which in hindsight was a mistake even if we were ultimately going to break up. However, to this day I want to upbraid her for not really including me in her decision and for being just kind of weak and lame about the whole thing. Tears have a way of shortening a conversation.
Stretch it out. You deserve to know what's going on and in the future you may need to rely on that knowledge to get over her.
posted by rhizome at 11:55 AM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Stretch it out. You deserve to know what's going on and in the future you may need to rely on that knowledge to get over her.
posted by rhizome at 11:55 AM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
If you think it was a mistake not to propose, then fix that mistake. Propose to her. Let her KNOW how you feel. Even if she refuses - at least then she would know how you felt . . . that you "love her more than you love anything in your life." Prove it by putting yourself out there - knowing that there is a chance at rejection. Do it anyway. Make it fabulous for her.
posted by Sassyfras at 11:56 AM on September 19, 2007
posted by Sassyfras at 11:56 AM on September 19, 2007
The obvious answer is to get into some couples counseling pronto to see whether the relationship is salvageable. In the meantime start thinking about all those things she might have said over the past six months that you dismissed as crazy, not real etc. Now might be a time to address some of them.
posted by caddis at 12:02 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by caddis at 12:02 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Welcome to the worst day of your life
I never thought I would be writing this
One thing that might help is toning down the drama level a bit. OK, so your gf is unhappy in your relationship and wants space.
What could this situation be like if you approach it with sincere curiosity and clear, loving reassurance rather than catastrophizing or egg-tiptoeing?
It sounds like you don't have any idea what is actually going on in your gf's head, much less what it has been like to be her lately. How might you go about finding out?
posted by ottereroticist at 12:03 PM on September 19, 2007
I never thought I would be writing this
One thing that might help is toning down the drama level a bit. OK, so your gf is unhappy in your relationship and wants space.
What could this situation be like if you approach it with sincere curiosity and clear, loving reassurance rather than catastrophizing or egg-tiptoeing?
It sounds like you don't have any idea what is actually going on in your gf's head, much less what it has been like to be her lately. How might you go about finding out?
posted by ottereroticist at 12:03 PM on September 19, 2007
I don't think proposing right now is the answer. It sounds like she needs more space, and that would be providing the opposite. Encourage her to do more things out of the house, or get away more yourself.
posted by rottytooth at 12:10 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by rottytooth at 12:10 PM on September 19, 2007
I never proposed to her and I see now that it was a mistake to drag it out like that, but I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions.
Obviously not. She probably felt taken for granted. If you "never wanted to be with another woman, and I can't imagine ever being with anyone else" then marriage, or at least discussion of formalizing the relationship somehow, should have been the next natural step, somewhere before you guys hit the five year mark.
I'm sorry to say that you may have missed the boat on this one.
posted by Asparagirl at 12:11 PM on September 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
Obviously not. She probably felt taken for granted. If you "never wanted to be with another woman, and I can't imagine ever being with anyone else" then marriage, or at least discussion of formalizing the relationship somehow, should have been the next natural step, somewhere before you guys hit the five year mark.
I'm sorry to say that you may have missed the boat on this one.
posted by Asparagirl at 12:11 PM on September 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
Yes, do that.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:11 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 12:11 PM on September 19, 2007
Definitely talk to her. Saying that she's "not sure she wants to continue the relationship" might include the unstated end of the sentence "if things keep going like they are now." In which case there's an excellent chance that you can salvage the relationship. Then again, it may not include that last bit, and she may just be trying to soften the blow for when she eventually pulls the trigger.
Specific suggestions for what to talk about, from someone who has been at the same point in a LTR (although I was in your girlfriend's position):Goo
1. Don't make it about you--you need to have an initial conversation that will let you figure out why she's suddenly unsure. This sort of conversation is less likely to occur if you keep interrupting to tell her you love her or you'd do anything to keep her. It is absolutely less likely to occur if you argue her on every point. Just take everything she says as her perception: you might not agree with it, but you need to know what it is.
2. Ask her to articulate what has changed--has she felt this way recently? For a while? Did it start when you quit your job, or did it exist before that? Did quitting your job exacerbate it?
3. Ask her if she'd want to stay with you if whatever is bothering her ceased to be an issue. (Note: this doesn't mean you have to capitulate to whatever her demands are. But you're in a better position to know whether to make the effort if you have a good read on whether it's too late or whether it could actually make a difference.)
4. If she indicates that there is something specific that is making her reconsider the relationship, and if that specific thing is addressed then she'd feel differently, try to come to an agreement about what concrete steps she'd see as progress. The more concrete, the better--if she's unhappy enough to tell you she's considering leaving, vague promises that you'll change mean a hell of a lot less than saying you'll make a commitment to do A, B and C at least weekly (or whatever).
5. Spend some time by yourself mulling over what you find out from your girlfriend. Do you think they are reasonable requests? Can you see where she's coming from, and agree that she has a point? If you really don't--if the only reason you'd change is because you desperately want to be with her and you'll say anything to keep her--get thee to couples therapy. Down that road lies resentment, passive-aggressiveness, and dying relationships.
In my experience, telling someone that I wasn't sure I wanted to continue the relationship came after a period where I was becoming more and more miserable with the status quo, and I felt that I wasn't being heard and nothing was going to change. That was the only way to really let him know that things had reached critical mass, and the relationship was going to be beyond salvage if something didn't change. (Turned out, he was pretty unhappy about some things too, and we hashed it out in really concrete terms--this is what I need you to do in order to meet my needs, this is what I need to do in order to meet yours--and we're still together a few years later.)
posted by iminurmefi at 12:15 PM on September 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
Specific suggestions for what to talk about, from someone who has been at the same point in a LTR (although I was in your girlfriend's position):Goo
1. Don't make it about you--you need to have an initial conversation that will let you figure out why she's suddenly unsure. This sort of conversation is less likely to occur if you keep interrupting to tell her you love her or you'd do anything to keep her. It is absolutely less likely to occur if you argue her on every point. Just take everything she says as her perception: you might not agree with it, but you need to know what it is.
2. Ask her to articulate what has changed--has she felt this way recently? For a while? Did it start when you quit your job, or did it exist before that? Did quitting your job exacerbate it?
3. Ask her if she'd want to stay with you if whatever is bothering her ceased to be an issue. (Note: this doesn't mean you have to capitulate to whatever her demands are. But you're in a better position to know whether to make the effort if you have a good read on whether it's too late or whether it could actually make a difference.)
4. If she indicates that there is something specific that is making her reconsider the relationship, and if that specific thing is addressed then she'd feel differently, try to come to an agreement about what concrete steps she'd see as progress. The more concrete, the better--if she's unhappy enough to tell you she's considering leaving, vague promises that you'll change mean a hell of a lot less than saying you'll make a commitment to do A, B and C at least weekly (or whatever).
5. Spend some time by yourself mulling over what you find out from your girlfriend. Do you think they are reasonable requests? Can you see where she's coming from, and agree that she has a point? If you really don't--if the only reason you'd change is because you desperately want to be with her and you'll say anything to keep her--get thee to couples therapy. Down that road lies resentment, passive-aggressiveness, and dying relationships.
In my experience, telling someone that I wasn't sure I wanted to continue the relationship came after a period where I was becoming more and more miserable with the status quo, and I felt that I wasn't being heard and nothing was going to change. That was the only way to really let him know that things had reached critical mass, and the relationship was going to be beyond salvage if something didn't change. (Turned out, he was pretty unhappy about some things too, and we hashed it out in really concrete terms--this is what I need you to do in order to meet my needs, this is what I need to do in order to meet yours--and we're still together a few years later.)
posted by iminurmefi at 12:15 PM on September 19, 2007 [7 favorites]
One other thing--I'd hold off on proposing unless she's made it really clear that the lack of a proposal is THE issue and the only issue.
If the lack of a proposal isn't the real issue, then proposing might be perceived as just another way that you're ignoring the real problem and trying to hush her up.
If the lack of a proposal is the issue... well, that sucks, because I can't imagine a proposal precipitated by a threat to leave feels very good to receive. If this is the case, then you better come up with some romantic proposal so good and over-the-top that it makes it abundantly clear that you're not just doing it under duress.
posted by iminurmefi at 12:20 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
If the lack of a proposal isn't the real issue, then proposing might be perceived as just another way that you're ignoring the real problem and trying to hush her up.
If the lack of a proposal is the issue... well, that sucks, because I can't imagine a proposal precipitated by a threat to leave feels very good to receive. If this is the case, then you better come up with some romantic proposal so good and over-the-top that it makes it abundantly clear that you're not just doing it under duress.
posted by iminurmefi at 12:20 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
If you think it was a mistake not to propose, then fix that mistake. Propose to her.
This is horrible advice.
Right now you want to be finding out what the specific problems are, then figuring out if they're reconcilable.
posted by chrisamiller at 12:22 PM on September 19, 2007 [4 favorites]
This is horrible advice.
Right now you want to be finding out what the specific problems are, then figuring out if they're reconcilable.
posted by chrisamiller at 12:22 PM on September 19, 2007 [4 favorites]
don't propose to her, but you do need to show her that you're willing to fight for her. talk to her.
talk to her. suggest you go to couples counseling, if need be. this is not considered bothering.
posted by thinkingwoman at 12:34 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
talk to her. suggest you go to couples counseling, if need be. this is not considered bothering.
posted by thinkingwoman at 12:34 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
This is kind of unorthodox but I can vouch for this approach firsthand. Listen to her and AGREE with every point she makes. No matter what she says, she is right. Listen, and agree convincingly. The key here is instead of helping to fuel a confrontation, you're taking the wind out of her sails, and her reaction will surprise you. You will initially see some surprise and over days or weeks she will start backpedalling on her ideas.
Plus if you're agreeing with her and supporting her 100%, why would she want to leave you? Do not get into negotiations, defensiveness, or tough discussion.
The other key point here is be POSITIVE -- never, never, never be negative, complain, or do any axe-grinding. If you're depressed all the time, you need to fix that or put on a show. You must always be happy and content around her in a convincing way and make whatever changes in your life that are required to make that happen. Save your venting for the gym or other friends.
Overall, talk is cheap and I'm sure empty promises have been made. Your job is to dismantle whatever is repelling her, and begin attracting her by doing all the things above.
I won't get into the particulars but this worked for me. If this doesn't work, then there's nothing you could have done anyway to stop it.
posted by antipasta_explosion at 12:44 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Plus if you're agreeing with her and supporting her 100%, why would she want to leave you? Do not get into negotiations, defensiveness, or tough discussion.
The other key point here is be POSITIVE -- never, never, never be negative, complain, or do any axe-grinding. If you're depressed all the time, you need to fix that or put on a show. You must always be happy and content around her in a convincing way and make whatever changes in your life that are required to make that happen. Save your venting for the gym or other friends.
Overall, talk is cheap and I'm sure empty promises have been made. Your job is to dismantle whatever is repelling her, and begin attracting her by doing all the things above.
I won't get into the particulars but this worked for me. If this doesn't work, then there's nothing you could have done anyway to stop it.
posted by antipasta_explosion at 12:44 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Also regarding the marriage proposal, are you being pressured into an ultimatum or not? If so, then it's up to you whether you want to do that. But I think if you do all the above and draw the line on some things, she will concede, and if not, maybe this isn't right to begin with and you can always move on.
posted by antipasta_explosion at 12:45 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by antipasta_explosion at 12:45 PM on September 19, 2007
I don't know about that, antipasta_explosion. If one has to put on a show and be impossibly happy, what kind of relationship is that? The person is supposed to be someone you can share your life with, not hide your life from.
I agree with your suggestions, but only for a really brief time, until she can understand how you truly feel about her. If the point is to be vulnerable and let her surprise you with how she addresses you after you admit to your faults, I agree. But I don't think a long term happy stick up the butt is useful.
I do think that she said she's not sure is promising. That means (to me) that she has some kind of foundational level place where she genuinely feels like there is something worth saving between the two of you, at least to tell you and not just break it off.
I would definitely do more talking, and really try to get at the source of her real displeasure. As antipasta hints at, it may require you doing a lot of talking and a lot of fault acknowledging. But I do think the key is to dig until you can find out all the particulars of her issues.
It's a long road, and sometimes a woman won't tell you what's truly wrong until you listen for quite some time. That's just my opinion/experience and is not all-inclusive, nor am I trying to pigeonhole the women who will flat out tell you how stupid you are in 5 seconds flat.
posted by cashman at 12:54 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
I agree with your suggestions, but only for a really brief time, until she can understand how you truly feel about her. If the point is to be vulnerable and let her surprise you with how she addresses you after you admit to your faults, I agree. But I don't think a long term happy stick up the butt is useful.
I do think that she said she's not sure is promising. That means (to me) that she has some kind of foundational level place where she genuinely feels like there is something worth saving between the two of you, at least to tell you and not just break it off.
I would definitely do more talking, and really try to get at the source of her real displeasure. As antipasta hints at, it may require you doing a lot of talking and a lot of fault acknowledging. But I do think the key is to dig until you can find out all the particulars of her issues.
It's a long road, and sometimes a woman won't tell you what's truly wrong until you listen for quite some time. That's just my opinion/experience and is not all-inclusive, nor am I trying to pigeonhole the women who will flat out tell you how stupid you are in 5 seconds flat.
posted by cashman at 12:54 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
Hi. I know you really love her and want to stay with here, but I'm going to ask some unpleasant questions. But first a bit of advice - DO NOT PROPOSE TO HER NOW. That will not work. She wants a storybook proposal, not a counteroffer.
You need to find out want she really wants, what she's unhappy with. To wit:
1. Does she work? Was she really there for you when you hated your job and wanted to quit? Did she ever suggest to you that you should quit and do something else, and that the two of you would be okay until then? If she doesn't work/have her own source of income, and she never advised to to just quit, then while you may lover her, she's bad news.
2. Did she ever let on that she wanted you to propose? Think about this in the context of question 1.
3. but we're getting back on our feet financially and I've been doing my best to make home life pleasant. That sounds like disaster. Why is it your job to make home life pleasant? Weren't you going through a crisis? One would think she would do everything she could to soften the impact while you sorted things out.
4. Did she know you were going to quit? Did she support the decision, do something special for you that night "Let's celebrate the end of the horrible job!", or was she a little bit distant when she found out you were going to do it. Is this when the rough patch started.
5. Who bought the house, i.e. whose money put in the down payment, what percentage of the monthly payment came from you vs her?
I'm trying to get you to remove yourself from the situation to try to understand some reason why she may have done what she's done. If she was looking for security, you provided it for five years, and while you were providing it, maybe the marriage wasn't such a big issue. But when you quit your job, she's unmarried living with an unemployed guy. Not the fairy tale situation.
I know you are hurting, and I'm not devaluing that. Your feelings are your feelings. The real question is, if your sadness disappeared this second but she was exactly the same, would you want to get back with her?
You are in a unique position, and I want you to think about that for a second. You quit a job you hate. You're out of a relationship - maybe you want in that relationship, and maybe its a good one for you, but maybe not. I don't know one way or the other. But you are totally and utterly free. Don't think for a second that this is your last chance at a girlfriend or marriage prospect or sex or whatever. There are plenty of women out there, so don't worry about that.
Was there something you wanted to do, but never got a chance to? Drive across the country, travel, learn to paint etc? This is your chance. You can go and work on being you, to be who you dreamed about being ten years ago.
You feel like this is the end, but never forget that it is also a beginning, and you should weigh that fact in whatever decision you make.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:58 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
You need to find out want she really wants, what she's unhappy with. To wit:
1. Does she work? Was she really there for you when you hated your job and wanted to quit? Did she ever suggest to you that you should quit and do something else, and that the two of you would be okay until then? If she doesn't work/have her own source of income, and she never advised to to just quit, then while you may lover her, she's bad news.
2. Did she ever let on that she wanted you to propose? Think about this in the context of question 1.
3. but we're getting back on our feet financially and I've been doing my best to make home life pleasant. That sounds like disaster. Why is it your job to make home life pleasant? Weren't you going through a crisis? One would think she would do everything she could to soften the impact while you sorted things out.
4. Did she know you were going to quit? Did she support the decision, do something special for you that night "Let's celebrate the end of the horrible job!", or was she a little bit distant when she found out you were going to do it. Is this when the rough patch started.
5. Who bought the house, i.e. whose money put in the down payment, what percentage of the monthly payment came from you vs her?
I'm trying to get you to remove yourself from the situation to try to understand some reason why she may have done what she's done. If she was looking for security, you provided it for five years, and while you were providing it, maybe the marriage wasn't such a big issue. But when you quit your job, she's unmarried living with an unemployed guy. Not the fairy tale situation.
I know you are hurting, and I'm not devaluing that. Your feelings are your feelings. The real question is, if your sadness disappeared this second but she was exactly the same, would you want to get back with her?
You are in a unique position, and I want you to think about that for a second. You quit a job you hate. You're out of a relationship - maybe you want in that relationship, and maybe its a good one for you, but maybe not. I don't know one way or the other. But you are totally and utterly free. Don't think for a second that this is your last chance at a girlfriend or marriage prospect or sex or whatever. There are plenty of women out there, so don't worry about that.
Was there something you wanted to do, but never got a chance to? Drive across the country, travel, learn to paint etc? This is your chance. You can go and work on being you, to be who you dreamed about being ten years ago.
You feel like this is the end, but never forget that it is also a beginning, and you should weigh that fact in whatever decision you make.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:58 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
I worry a little about antipasta_explosion's advice. On its face, it's incredibly dysfunctional, unhealthy advice. If you ever are in a situation where getting someone to stay with you involves not being you, then you're not in a good relationship. Part of the woman's movement was teaching women that it was okay for them to be unhappy at times, know why? Because pretending you're happy all the time is horrible and painful. Forcing your opinions and feelings to fall perfectly in line with someone else's isn't good. It can kill you, and it certainly isn't fair to your partner.
But, that said, I think there's a more charitable reading of antipasta_explosion's advice. Don't just agree with what your girlfriend says just so she thinks she's perfectly right, agree that her worries need to be addressed. So, if she complains, "You never show me enough affection," then don't just nod vacuously and say, "Yes, yes, of course," while secretly believing that she's full of it.. Instead, accept that she feels you never show her enough affection, accept that she needs something that she isn't currently getting. Don't argue about whether her feelings are justified, or whether you're actually a good boyfriend. Don't see conversations like that as an argument, and certainly avoid growing defensive. Instead, see them as a chance to learn what's going on in her head, just as it's also a chance for her to learn what's going on in yours.
Furthermore, don't be positive 100% of the time even if you're actually miserable. It isn't fair to anyone if you put on a happy face and just force all those negative emotions into your subconscious. You'll either snap or grow horribly unhappy. However, there is something to be said for honestly trying to have a good outlook on things. Try to seek out all the positive aspects of situations. Go out of your way to find things that both of you will enjoy, that will make you both happy. It certainly won't help anything if you sit around being miserable all night, so try to find ways to avoid doing that. That is a good way to try being positive all the time, to try to make your situation one in which it is natural to be positive.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:06 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
But, that said, I think there's a more charitable reading of antipasta_explosion's advice. Don't just agree with what your girlfriend says just so she thinks she's perfectly right, agree that her worries need to be addressed. So, if she complains, "You never show me enough affection," then don't just nod vacuously and say, "Yes, yes, of course," while secretly believing that she's full of it.. Instead, accept that she feels you never show her enough affection, accept that she needs something that she isn't currently getting. Don't argue about whether her feelings are justified, or whether you're actually a good boyfriend. Don't see conversations like that as an argument, and certainly avoid growing defensive. Instead, see them as a chance to learn what's going on in her head, just as it's also a chance for her to learn what's going on in yours.
Furthermore, don't be positive 100% of the time even if you're actually miserable. It isn't fair to anyone if you put on a happy face and just force all those negative emotions into your subconscious. You'll either snap or grow horribly unhappy. However, there is something to be said for honestly trying to have a good outlook on things. Try to seek out all the positive aspects of situations. Go out of your way to find things that both of you will enjoy, that will make you both happy. It certainly won't help anything if you sit around being miserable all night, so try to find ways to avoid doing that. That is a good way to try being positive all the time, to try to make your situation one in which it is natural to be positive.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:06 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
Tell her you want to spend the rest of your life with her, propose to her, and ask what's bothering her, in that order.
posted by alms at 1:09 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by alms at 1:09 PM on September 19, 2007
I don't know what happened
I quit a job I hated without having something to fall back on
I think the answer is obvious - if you want a girlfriend, you need a job.
You are free to quit a job you hate, but pawning the burden of a selfish act onto someone else will leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth, and to many, it doesn't bode well for a future relationship. What if you have a 4 year old in private school, and you suddenly "quit your job" again?
My feeling is she doesn't want that sort of reckless instability in her life.
posted by four panels at 1:09 PM on September 19, 2007
I quit a job I hated without having something to fall back on
I think the answer is obvious - if you want a girlfriend, you need a job.
You are free to quit a job you hate, but pawning the burden of a selfish act onto someone else will leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth, and to many, it doesn't bode well for a future relationship. What if you have a 4 year old in private school, and you suddenly "quit your job" again?
My feeling is she doesn't want that sort of reckless instability in her life.
posted by four panels at 1:09 PM on September 19, 2007
My feeling is that, if that's the way she feels, then it's easy enough to verbalize that and come to a mature understanding with each other that any future employment changes will happen in a more responsible way. Suddenly announcing that she's uncertain about your future doesn't seem particularly communicative. Get to the bottom of it (as everyone else has said). If she's unwilling to play ball, then what pastbagel said.
posted by fingers_of_fire at 1:15 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by fingers_of_fire at 1:15 PM on September 19, 2007
Read 23skidoo's answer again, because it's mature, thoughtful and right.
posted by klangklangston at 1:18 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by klangklangston at 1:18 PM on September 19, 2007
Oh, and.. I completely agree with the people who're saying that proposing to her is a bad idea, unless she's already specified that a lack of a proposal is her main problem.
It'd be like if she found out you cheated on her and you bought her an expensive gift as a response. In other words, it'd be like saying, "Okay, so you're upset, but maybe I can get you to quiet down if I give you something pretty."
I'm not saying you did anything analogous to cheating on her.. But she probably wants something that'll meaningfully address her concerns. Again, unless she's made it clear that all she wants is a proposal, she'll see a proposal given now more as a "please please stop being angry at me" gift as opposed to a real sign of emotional commitment to her happiness.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:18 PM on September 19, 2007
It'd be like if she found out you cheated on her and you bought her an expensive gift as a response. In other words, it'd be like saying, "Okay, so you're upset, but maybe I can get you to quiet down if I give you something pretty."
I'm not saying you did anything analogous to cheating on her.. But she probably wants something that'll meaningfully address her concerns. Again, unless she's made it clear that all she wants is a proposal, she'll see a proposal given now more as a "please please stop being angry at me" gift as opposed to a real sign of emotional commitment to her happiness.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:18 PM on September 19, 2007
23skidoo : It doesn't sound like you've talked to her enough yet. Go do that.
This is a very nearly perfect answer and I just wanted to see it again.
My only addition would be, go do that before you do anything else, like proposing. Find out what the problem is, and then figure out a way to address it.
posted by quin at 1:18 PM on September 19, 2007
This is a very nearly perfect answer and I just wanted to see it again.
My only addition would be, go do that before you do anything else, like proposing. Find out what the problem is, and then figure out a way to address it.
posted by quin at 1:18 PM on September 19, 2007
I think what antipasta_explosion is getting at is validating her feelings, which is sort of the point of my earlier comment. Listen, agree, or at least agree that this is an issue for her that must be addressed. At this point it is about finding out why she is getting cold feet and what her needs are to stay comfortable in the relationship. If you argue that she is wrong she will not feel supported but rather will feel more justified in leaving. Don't dishonestly agree, rather honestly listen and agree to seek change which addresses her concerns. She may or may not be right about things, but what she is surely right about is how she feels, and that is important. Ignore your partner's feelings at your own peril.
posted by caddis at 1:19 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by caddis at 1:19 PM on September 19, 2007
You do realize that if she has gotten to the point where she has to spell it out for you and say she is considering ending the relationship, then you've done quite a bit to ignore what was probably a lengthy series of more subtle signs that she feels this way?
To her, you have failed to meet her needs emotionally and sympathetically. In my opinion, she has probably already made up her mind about your relationship, because she feels that you have already made up yours. She's probably giving you the opportunity to prove her right by conceding the end of the relationship.
My advice to you is: let her go. If you really want to keep her, don't necessarily say the words "break up", but say that you both need some space to work this out. Then you just have to be patient and understanding and let her decide what to do. If she accepts this very easily, she might very well not come back. But you have to realize that at this point, she might very well be seeing somebody else right this minute. If you're okay with this possibility, and that you're going to be at her whim for the forseeable future, then just hang in there and be there for her. If not, then I think this relationship will fall apart all by itself.
posted by tjvis at 1:25 PM on September 19, 2007
To her, you have failed to meet her needs emotionally and sympathetically. In my opinion, she has probably already made up her mind about your relationship, because she feels that you have already made up yours. She's probably giving you the opportunity to prove her right by conceding the end of the relationship.
My advice to you is: let her go. If you really want to keep her, don't necessarily say the words "break up", but say that you both need some space to work this out. Then you just have to be patient and understanding and let her decide what to do. If she accepts this very easily, she might very well not come back. But you have to realize that at this point, she might very well be seeing somebody else right this minute. If you're okay with this possibility, and that you're going to be at her whim for the forseeable future, then just hang in there and be there for her. If not, then I think this relationship will fall apart all by itself.
posted by tjvis at 1:25 PM on September 19, 2007
Honestly if after 5 years she can just come out and say that then this has been a problem that's been developing for some time now. If she has had a problem and hasn't been able to bring it up you're both tiptoeing around *each other.*
You know what women respect most? A man who knows what he wants, and isn't afraid to go after it. If you didn't like your job and quit, that's alright. Ideally you should always have something lined up before leaving a prior job (I'm paying for that mistake now too) but sometimes you just have to get out of a bad situation before it affects your mental and physical health.
The more invested you become with a woman the more critical (not less as you'd think) she is of your actions and how they affect you BOTH as a couple. Women HATE having to deal with a whiney, needy and grief-stricken man. A lot of men feel that they need to "profess" their undying love and commitment for a woman. This should never been a huge-drawn out affair and mostly saved for a proposal!
Men SHOW what they feel and mean by their actions. A man who's all talk and no walk, well you'll most often find him talking instead of walking. Show by doing. Get your life back in order. Get a job, and get into some clubs or groups to do things. Work on yourself. Tell your gf that if she's not sure about your relationship she needs to figure it out and when she does LET YOU KNOW. Because obviously you know what you want and you shouldn't be expected to wait around forever while she wastes your time.
You don't have to be mean or rude about it, it's simple fact. I had to do this with one of my gfs once. If after 2 years she could so lightly give everything up you have to wonder how vested they are in the relationship to begin with!
posted by PetiePal at 1:37 PM on September 19, 2007
You know what women respect most? A man who knows what he wants, and isn't afraid to go after it. If you didn't like your job and quit, that's alright. Ideally you should always have something lined up before leaving a prior job (I'm paying for that mistake now too) but sometimes you just have to get out of a bad situation before it affects your mental and physical health.
The more invested you become with a woman the more critical (not less as you'd think) she is of your actions and how they affect you BOTH as a couple. Women HATE having to deal with a whiney, needy and grief-stricken man. A lot of men feel that they need to "profess" their undying love and commitment for a woman. This should never been a huge-drawn out affair and mostly saved for a proposal!
Men SHOW what they feel and mean by their actions. A man who's all talk and no walk, well you'll most often find him talking instead of walking. Show by doing. Get your life back in order. Get a job, and get into some clubs or groups to do things. Work on yourself. Tell your gf that if she's not sure about your relationship she needs to figure it out and when she does LET YOU KNOW. Because obviously you know what you want and you shouldn't be expected to wait around forever while she wastes your time.
You don't have to be mean or rude about it, it's simple fact. I had to do this with one of my gfs once. If after 2 years she could so lightly give everything up you have to wonder how vested they are in the relationship to begin with!
posted by PetiePal at 1:37 PM on September 19, 2007
I agree with caddis. Don't assume you've figured out what's bothering her because of what's bothering you. You feel guilty about leaving your job and putting you both in financial peril. She may feel like you don't understand something fundamental about what she wants out of your relationship. These may be entirely different things. Do not ignore her feelings or shy away from dealing with this by using the "space" smokescreen. I view "space" in this context as meaning, "I want you to listen to me, consider what I'm saying, take me seriously, and be open to me without pressuring me to do what you want me to do." She hasn't moved out; she's still right there. That's a sure sign that she is still open to you, but there must be a serious, adult conversation in your near future - maybe many - that deal with important, fundamental issues far beyond who's paying the rent.
I think the answer is obvious - if you want a girlfriend, you need a job.
Good lord. Please ignore this, lest you close your laptop and insert your head into the nearest oven. People go through tough times. If she's so shallow that your temporary financial/career troubles are enough to blow your relationship to smithereens, then it's obvious what you should do, five years in or otherwise.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 1:45 PM on September 19, 2007
I think the answer is obvious - if you want a girlfriend, you need a job.
Good lord. Please ignore this, lest you close your laptop and insert your head into the nearest oven. People go through tough times. If she's so shallow that your temporary financial/career troubles are enough to blow your relationship to smithereens, then it's obvious what you should do, five years in or otherwise.
posted by TryTheTilapia at 1:45 PM on September 19, 2007
People who propose at times like these are the ones who just want to make sure they get on the record as having proposed, so that later on their self-image as being willing to "do anything" and their bewilderment at how it all could have fallen apart so fast can remain intact.
You need to communicate to her that you are ready to listen. And then you need to make sure you're not keeping her from sharing with your own words, actions, or emotional contortions.
posted by hermitosis at 2:00 PM on September 19, 2007
You need to communicate to her that you are ready to listen. And then you need to make sure you're not keeping her from sharing with your own words, actions, or emotional contortions.
posted by hermitosis at 2:00 PM on September 19, 2007
I love her more than I love anything in my life....
I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions...
...can't imagine ever being with anyone else.
...I will do literally anything to make our relationship work.
...still there for her any time she needs me?
Dial it back several notches. It sounds great in songs, but nobody (nobody relatively emotionally healthy) actually wants the burden of being someone's everything, and most people lose respect when their partner reaches the "I will do literally anything" stage. Do not debase yourself in the mistaken belief that it makes you look good.
You quit your job with no plan, which means you just assumed she would take care of you. That's not just crappy teamwork, that's taking advantage, and right now a light sheen of competent independence should be what you are aiming for.
"Space," particularly in confined quarters, means no emotional blackmail, no wearing your grief like a big Sunday-go-to-town hat, no puppy eyes, no bribery, no resentful punishment, no killing-with-kindness, no drama. Don't make your pain the most important thing in the room. Make yourself available to talk - for real, no drama - and listen.
It may not work out. If it doesn't, it will hurt like a sonofabitch. Don't let your actions come from the fear of that pain, because those actions very rarely work out well. You need to bootstrap for right now if you want to maximize your chances of growing and learning and making it through this together.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:13 PM on September 19, 2007 [8 favorites]
I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions...
...can't imagine ever being with anyone else.
...I will do literally anything to make our relationship work.
...still there for her any time she needs me?
Dial it back several notches. It sounds great in songs, but nobody (nobody relatively emotionally healthy) actually wants the burden of being someone's everything, and most people lose respect when their partner reaches the "I will do literally anything" stage. Do not debase yourself in the mistaken belief that it makes you look good.
You quit your job with no plan, which means you just assumed she would take care of you. That's not just crappy teamwork, that's taking advantage, and right now a light sheen of competent independence should be what you are aiming for.
"Space," particularly in confined quarters, means no emotional blackmail, no wearing your grief like a big Sunday-go-to-town hat, no puppy eyes, no bribery, no resentful punishment, no killing-with-kindness, no drama. Don't make your pain the most important thing in the room. Make yourself available to talk - for real, no drama - and listen.
It may not work out. If it doesn't, it will hurt like a sonofabitch. Don't let your actions come from the fear of that pain, because those actions very rarely work out well. You need to bootstrap for right now if you want to maximize your chances of growing and learning and making it through this together.
posted by Lyn Never at 2:13 PM on September 19, 2007 [8 favorites]
+1 Talking to her.
If you feel that you have taken her for granted, tell her that. Let her know that you feel things are looking up, and your depression is a temporary thing that you feel you are working through.
DON'T propose just because you think it is what she wants. If the idea didn't occur to you, maybe you weren't ready. Even if you think you are ready now, a proposal should come from the heart, not from fear.
posted by misha at 2:41 PM on September 19, 2007
If you feel that you have taken her for granted, tell her that. Let her know that you feel things are looking up, and your depression is a temporary thing that you feel you are working through.
DON'T propose just because you think it is what she wants. If the idea didn't occur to you, maybe you weren't ready. Even if you think you are ready now, a proposal should come from the heart, not from fear.
posted by misha at 2:41 PM on September 19, 2007
It sounds like although you think you're in a committed relationship, your girlfriend does not get from you that you are. It takes a big leap of faith for most ladies to stay with a guy forever without any hope of marriage, children etc. This is, of course, unless you have heard your gf say that she never wants to get married and never wants kids. Has she ever said that?
I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions. I never wanted to be with another woman, and I can't imagine ever being with anyone else.
Honestly, how is it obvious if you don't say something about it or do something about it? Also, speaking as a girl, if it seemed to me that not only was my guy not committing to me as a mate and also not committing to pulling his weight in the earning department, I would find it easier to believe that he was not the right person for me and would find more things about him that weren't the right fit.
So yes, do as those above have said - sit down and have what we call a "state of the relationship" talk with her. If it takes a visit to a counselor to facilitate that talk, then go to one. Be ready to really hear what she has to say and to do what it takes to keep her in her life if that is truly what you desire.
posted by Lynsey at 4:01 PM on September 19, 2007
I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions. I never wanted to be with another woman, and I can't imagine ever being with anyone else.
Honestly, how is it obvious if you don't say something about it or do something about it? Also, speaking as a girl, if it seemed to me that not only was my guy not committing to me as a mate and also not committing to pulling his weight in the earning department, I would find it easier to believe that he was not the right person for me and would find more things about him that weren't the right fit.
So yes, do as those above have said - sit down and have what we call a "state of the relationship" talk with her. If it takes a visit to a counselor to facilitate that talk, then go to one. Be ready to really hear what she has to say and to do what it takes to keep her in her life if that is truly what you desire.
posted by Lynsey at 4:01 PM on September 19, 2007
I think the agreeing thing is good. That's not to say that you should agree to bullshit, but there must be some truth to each and everything that she is saying.
posted by Ironmouth at 4:03 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by Ironmouth at 4:03 PM on September 19, 2007
love the girl, but remember to love other things in your life just as much, i think this leads to mental stability and mature chicks seem to appreciate this
when you don't, things like this happen, you seem really instable etc.
posted by Salvatorparadise at 4:10 PM on September 19, 2007
when you don't, things like this happen, you seem really instable etc.
posted by Salvatorparadise at 4:10 PM on September 19, 2007
I think what antipasta_explosion said is pretty much the worst advice ever. I can't see how being disingenuous and agreeing with her every sentiment regardless of your real feelings will help you connect. Yes, you should make an effort to see her side of things. But agreeing with everything isn't validating, it's patronizing. It sounds like you need to talk and figure things out with her. It's understandable that you don't want your grief to drive her away, but at the same time, as a longtime partner she owes you some discussion and exploration of whatever is going on for her in your relationship. Talking it through seems necessary. Basically, what 23skiddo said.
posted by sneakin at 5:36 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by sneakin at 5:36 PM on September 19, 2007
Usually, when a woman says she's not sure if she wants to continue the relationship, she's already made up her mind. It's over. She's just trying to get you emotionally prepared for D-Day.
posted by JaySunSee at 5:41 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by JaySunSee at 5:41 PM on September 19, 2007
Another vote for talking, with a heavy dose of listening and empathizing.
OK, now disassociate from the problem: imagine she anonymously put those complaints and issues into a question here. How would you advise her? What would you want her S.O. (that'd be you) to do?
posted by thomsplace at 5:45 PM on September 19, 2007
OK, now disassociate from the problem: imagine she anonymously put those complaints and issues into a question here. How would you advise her? What would you want her S.O. (that'd be you) to do?
posted by thomsplace at 5:45 PM on September 19, 2007
I never proposed to her and I see now that it was a mistake to drag it out like that, but I think that my unwavering commitment is obvious in our daily interactions.
Unless you've decided as a couple that marriage is not for you, unwavering commitment = marriage. In a world where it's common place for guys to dodge commitment at every turn, you learn very quickly that while affection and love mean a lot, they have to be backed up by concrete words and actions. Nothing is implied. You aren't exclusive until you both agree you are. You aren't bf/gf until you both say you are. You aren't spending the rest of your life together, until you're married (or have made some other serious commitment). I know people with kids, where the guy just isn't ready for marriage.
After all this time without a total commitment from you, she may have become very disillusioned with the relationship. Five years and a house later, I would be to. Especially given that you don't have a job, so I'm assuming she is supporting you? That's the sort of thing you do for your husband and your family, not for your boyfriend.
However, I wouldn't propose at this exact moment. I would throw yourself on her mercy, tell her you have been an absolute idiot and that you can't imagine being without her, that of course you want to marry her and be with her for the rest of your life and you will spend the rest of your life proving that if she'll let you.
posted by whoaali at 5:53 PM on September 19, 2007
Unless you've decided as a couple that marriage is not for you, unwavering commitment = marriage. In a world where it's common place for guys to dodge commitment at every turn, you learn very quickly that while affection and love mean a lot, they have to be backed up by concrete words and actions. Nothing is implied. You aren't exclusive until you both agree you are. You aren't bf/gf until you both say you are. You aren't spending the rest of your life together, until you're married (or have made some other serious commitment). I know people with kids, where the guy just isn't ready for marriage.
After all this time without a total commitment from you, she may have become very disillusioned with the relationship. Five years and a house later, I would be to. Especially given that you don't have a job, so I'm assuming she is supporting you? That's the sort of thing you do for your husband and your family, not for your boyfriend.
However, I wouldn't propose at this exact moment. I would throw yourself on her mercy, tell her you have been an absolute idiot and that you can't imagine being without her, that of course you want to marry her and be with her for the rest of your life and you will spend the rest of your life proving that if she'll let you.
posted by whoaali at 5:53 PM on September 19, 2007
I think at this point it would be a mistake NOT to talk about marriage. You want to marry her and you are indicating that there is some disappointment around marriage and I think you need to make it clear what the situation actually is and how you really feel.
posted by zia at 7:02 PM on September 19, 2007
posted by zia at 7:02 PM on September 19, 2007
I really don't get where the marriage thing is coming from. Is she saying "you're not ready to commit -- I'm going to find someone who is?" If not, then the "why didn't I ask her before?" is your issue, not hers. What are her issues?
A tip on the "her issues" discussion. Don't ask her to describe what's wrong. Ask her to describe what she wants. In an ideal world, what would things be like? Get her to describe this in as much detail as possible.
posted by salvia at 10:49 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
A tip on the "her issues" discussion. Don't ask her to describe what's wrong. Ask her to describe what she wants. In an ideal world, what would things be like? Get her to describe this in as much detail as possible.
posted by salvia at 10:49 PM on September 19, 2007 [2 favorites]
I'm with JaySunSee. It's already over, she's just giving you the "on a break" slow breakup.
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:57 AM on September 20, 2007
posted by jenfullmoon at 11:57 AM on September 20, 2007
Has she ever told you before that she'd like to get married? It seems odd that someone who wanted to marry someone else would fail to mention that over the course of a 5 year relationship.
Personally, if I really loved someone I wouldn't dump them over quitting a job and some financial hardship if it wasn't a long-term pattern. I would, however, be strongly considering moving on with my life after five years of living with a guy who apparently didn't think I was good enough to marry. Not all women are like me in that regard but I'd be willing to bet most of them are.
Like everybody else says, find out what's wrong. If it involves lack of a proposal make it clear to her you do want to get married, work night and day to get back in her good graces, and then propose.
However, if she doesn't mention marriage, I'd say you're toast and it's time to get started moving on with your life.
posted by Jess the Mess at 12:48 PM on September 20, 2007
Personally, if I really loved someone I wouldn't dump them over quitting a job and some financial hardship if it wasn't a long-term pattern. I would, however, be strongly considering moving on with my life after five years of living with a guy who apparently didn't think I was good enough to marry. Not all women are like me in that regard but I'd be willing to bet most of them are.
Like everybody else says, find out what's wrong. If it involves lack of a proposal make it clear to her you do want to get married, work night and day to get back in her good graces, and then propose.
However, if she doesn't mention marriage, I'd say you're toast and it's time to get started moving on with your life.
posted by Jess the Mess at 12:48 PM on September 20, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
It sounds like this is very very hard on you. Try talking to your friends; if you have connections to other people, it may take a little pressure off your relationship with your girlfriend, which can help you both think better.
Finally, if you want to be with her for the rest of your life, talk to her about that. It may be what she thinks "marriage" means. I don't completely understand "marriage", but if you can both agree on a definition, and that it's what you both want, then go for it. It will at least clearly state your position, which will help her figure out what she wants.
posted by amtho at 11:44 AM on September 19, 2007